Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-01-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
05:26 masak joined #november-wiki
07:07 ihrd joined #november-wiki
07:07 ihrd HAI
07:08 masak OH HAI
07:08 zarah masak: where have you been? I've been worried.
07:08 masak zarah: sleeping.
07:08 zarah masak: eh... wha'?
07:08 masak humans sleep.
07:08 ihrd )
07:08 ihrd I think we should select one thrid app
07:09 masak me too.
07:09 ihrd and pate bi looks good for me
07:09 masak I'll change the text to that effect.
07:09 ihrd tane: hi, do you like select paste bin as our third app?
07:09 masak Tene: ping
07:09 ihrd I doing changes right now
07:09 masak ihrd: oh, you're editing.
07:10 ihrd yes
07:10 masak let me know when you're done.
07:10 ihrd yes, and check my changes plz
07:10 masak sure.
07:14 ihrd done
07:14 masak looking.
07:15 masak I'm desperately looking for an alternative name to Web::Tags...
07:15 masak ...but not finding anyone.
07:15 masak Web::Elements sounds not as good.
07:16 masak ihrd: should we write 'the pastebin'? just as we cannot promise that the Web framework will be the framework for web development, we cannot promise that our pastebin will be _the_ pastebin...
07:18 ihrd mb something like proof-of-concept
07:18 masak ihrd: with "Ilya start Maya project too.", you mean "Ilya has started developing Maya, too.", yes? ordinarily I wouldn't ask for clarification in this case, but since this is an application...
07:18 ihrd yes :)
07:18 masak ihrd: ok, changing it to that.
07:19 masak I added "with color coding".
07:19 ihrd ok
07:21 masak ok, done.
07:28 Tene masak: pong
07:28 ihrd hi Tene
07:28 masak Tene: what ihrd said.
07:29 Tene hi
07:29 zarah privet Tene
07:29 masak ok, can I send it now?
07:29 masak I'll cc everyone.
07:29 ihrd I am agree
07:29 Tene Go ahead.
07:29 * masak goes ahead
07:36 moritz_ so how are things in November land?
07:36 masak moritz_: stable, again.
07:36 masak moritz_: I'm attempting to throw together ul list parsing, so that the main page will not look so bad.
07:37 masak moritz_: so far, the only success I'm achieving is in finding Rakudo bugs.
07:37 moritz_ ;-/
07:37 moritz_ masak: speaking of the frontpage, the — thing is now replaced by —
07:38 masak oh!
07:38 * masak looks
07:38 masak aw, fail.
07:39 masak we don't declare encoding on our pages, either.
07:39 moritz_ that is a a FAIL indeed
07:40 masak :/
07:40 moritz_ well, you do in the header
07:40 moritz_ that's enough
07:40 moritz_ it just seems wrong ;)
07:40 moritz_ wget -S http://www.november-wiki.org/
07:40 moritz_ ...
07:40 moritz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
07:40 masak ah, that's wrong.
07:40 moritz_ I guess you really server utf-8 instead?
07:40 masak we're supposed to be utf-8 all the way.
07:41 * masak goes looking for the header.
07:42 masak funny, we _send_ 'Content-Type: text/html'
07:42 masak nothing more.
07:43 moritz_ ah, maybe CGI.pm or Apache change that on the fly
07:43 masak moritz_: you can rule out CGI.pm :)
07:43 masak we wrote it.
07:43 moritz_ oh right ;-)
07:44 masak we should just give the encoding explicitly somewhere, I guess.
07:44 masak either in the HTTP header or in the HTML header
07:44 moritz_ in the HTTP header please
07:44 moritz_ (out of band signalling)++
07:44 masak Tene, ihrd: I'm squeezing the proposal into the Pod template right now. will send soon.
07:45 masak moritz_: yes, that's probably nicer.
07:45 masak moritz_: easiest thing is probably to try just to specify the encoding.
07:45 masak will do that after sending this here proposal.
07:47 masak quick POD question: if I have a list in a list, and the first one is '=over 1', do I make the second one '=over 1' or '=over 2'? Guessing the former.
07:48 moritz_ the former, I think
07:48 Tene I always just use '=over' on its own.
07:48 masak ok.
07:52 masak the template asked "How soon can you start?". I'm writing "We can start in February."
07:54 Tene_ joined #november-wiki
07:55 masak Tene_: now there's two of you.
07:56 Tene_ so it seems.
07:57 masak ok. done podding. should I paste it somewhere or just send it?
07:57 Tene_ I vote just send.
07:58 masak hokay. let's see if I can find the address.
07:58 masak ah. tpf-proposals@perl-foundation.org
08:00 masak ...and she's airborne.
08:00 masak congratulations, people. good work.
08:07 masak ok, back to the encoding problem.
08:25 ihrd so just <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" />
08:25 ihrd in head
08:26 ihrd I will do that in Autumn
08:26 moritz_ ihrd: it's better to specify it in the http header :-)
08:27 masak I don't see the harm in specifying it in both places.
08:27 masak then people downloading the file will have a chance at seeing it properly rendered as well.
08:28 moritz_ ok, good point
08:28 masak ihrd: if you do it in Autumn, please do it in CleanAndSoft as well.
08:28 masak meanwhile, I'll fix the HTTP header.
08:29 ihrd ok
08:29 masak ihrd++
08:29 masak I'm getting a Null PMC access when running ./test_wiki.sh
08:29 masak that's on a clean master.
08:30 masak Rakudo r35994.
08:30 masak g'ah!
08:30 * masak hates regressions
08:37 ihrd I will work with november tiommorow night.
08:38 masak sounds good.
08:38 masak so will viklund++ and I, methinks.
08:41 masak hm, 'make' fails here.
08:41 masak however, if I make all the .pir files individually, saving November.pir for last, it works.
08:41 masak should that happen?
08:42 moritz_ masak: it probably means that some things don't work well with precompiled modules
08:42 masak moritz_: i.e., a rakudobug?
08:43 moritz_ masak: aye, that's my guess
08:43 * masak will try to boil it down to something reasonable
08:46 masak heh, November.pm _shouldn't_ compile, by the current rules adhered to by Rakudo.
08:47 masak it says 'class November does Session' on the first line, and 'use Session' on line 8. :)
08:47 masak fixing.
08:55 ihrd ugh
08:55 ihrd about propousal
08:55 ihrd > say 1320+1100+550
08:56 ihrd 2970
08:56 ihrd heh
08:56 masak haha :)
08:56 masak we want money, but we can't count.
08:56 ihrd so 30$ for after-garnt-party
08:57 masak I guess. :)
08:57 masak the first intercontinental after-grant-party in world history.
08:58 ihrd not first I think
08:59 masak first of its kind, then. :P
09:33 masak ok, so it turns out that November.pir cannot be make-d without Dispatcher.pir and November/Storage/File.pir being make-d first.
09:34 masak bonus points to anyone who figures out what these two files have in common that the other ones imported by November.pm don't.
09:34 masak hm, they both use the abominable first-line syntax. :)
09:34 masak changing to see if that helps.
09:35 masak as I said before, 'class November::Storage::File is November::Storage;' shouldn't work.
09:38 masak ok, make November.pir now works.
09:40 masak also putting November.pm last among the things we build.
09:44 masak yay! and I managed to create a small test case of the insanity in question. :)
09:52 ihrd masak++
09:53 ihrd I done first workable Web::Template
09:53 ihrd It lives in Maya repo for now
09:53 ihrd http://github.com/ihrd/maya/tree/master
09:53 zarah ihrd's link is also http://tinyurl.com/cvsqvo
09:53 masak I really gotta check out Maya in earnest.
09:54 masak will try to do that this week.
09:54 ihrd so this is just first scetch
09:55 ihrd okay
09:55 ihrd what about set up web repo on github?
09:55 masak ihrd: I'll do that now.
09:59 masak http://github.com/masak/web/
09:59 masak Tene_, ihrd: I'll see if I can add you two as committers also.
10:00 masak Tene_: are you Tene at github?
10:00 moritz_ we need some packaging for Perl 6 modules, very badly
10:00 masak seems he is.
10:00 masak moritz_: I've been thinking the same thing.
10:01 masak moritz_: one of these days I'll be throwing together something on github.
10:01 masak an automatic installer of some sort.
10:01 masak ihrd, Tene_: added.
10:04 masak 241 new/open tickets in RT!
10:05 masak I should slow down a bit.
10:24 ihrd :)
10:26 ihrd masak: I add encoding header
10:27 masak ihrd: in Autumn? yes, I saw that. thanks.
10:27 ihrd to CleanAndSoft
10:27 ihrd I found you use header.html, adn add to it
10:28 masak oh, excellent.
10:28 masak viklund++ ihrd++
10:28 ihrd but I think put unclouse tags in one tmpl is bad idea
10:28 masak unclose?
10:28 masak oh, unclosed? yes, me too.
10:29 ihrd yes, unclosed
10:29 masak which one were you thinking of? meta?
10:29 ihrd I men in one template all tags opemed should be closed
10:30 ihrd s/men/mean/
10:30 masak ok.
10:30 masak why?
10:30 ihrd using wrappers
10:30 masak I'm not sure I understand.
10:32 ihrd <html>
10:32 ihrd <head>
10:32 ihrd ...
10:32 ihrd </head>
10:32 ihrd <body>
10:32 ihrd [% content %]
10:32 ihrd </body>
10:32 ihrd </html>
10:32 ihrd we use text templater, but be xml-aware still good idea
10:33 masak but we aren't xml aware.
10:33 masak I'm not sure I see anything wrong with having unbalanced tags in HTML::Template.
10:33 ihrd in your head you can be xml-aware :)
10:33 masak you mean you like to have that as an ideal? fair enough.
10:34 masak but as far as I know, we cannot do like you suggest above.
10:34 masak HTML::Template cannot wrap things like that.
10:34 moritz_ if you want to be XML aware, take a look at XML::Seamstress or something similar
10:34 masak moritz_: ok, will have a look.
10:34 ihrd 1) editor with html highlite can notice every time when you open this tmpl
10:35 ihrd 2) it harder to understand
10:35 moritz_ it's by far not my preferred way of templating, but others like it
10:35 ihrd yes HTML::Template is ugly
10:36 moritz_ (seamstress, that is)
10:37 ihrd Yes, I have use it in one old project
10:37 masak ihrd: I'm disinclined to change the templates in November in any big way right now. better to wait until we have something in Web that we can use.
10:37 ihrd masak: agree
10:38 ihrd masak: I just noticed that, I do not want to change it right now to
10:38 masak ihrd: I'm glad you value purity. I do too.
10:39 masak HTML::Template is quite far from my idea of purity.
10:39 masak but it works for us in the short run.
10:42 ihrd yes
11:20 ihrd I tring to find  substitution for p5 AUTOLOAD, but fall
11:21 ihrd mb I just do not know new name of some feture
11:22 ihrd moritz_, can you help me?
11:23 moritz_ ihrd: it's documented in either S06 or S12 (search for AUTODEF), but I don't think it's implemented yet
11:23 ihrd thank you!
11:25 moritz_ yw
11:25 ihrd S13
11:25 moritz_ ah, close miss :/
11:28 ihrd and, ye sadly this is not implemented yet
11:31 ihrd left #november-wiki
13:25 masak @tell ihrd there's a test failure in t/dispatcher/02-add_rules.t
13:25 zarah Consider it noted.
14:10 moritz_ do you still prototype new features in p5w?
14:10 masak depends on what you mean.
14:11 masak it's been a long time since I did, but OTOH some features in p5w still haven't been ported to p6w.
14:11 masak features that I still intend to port, that is.
14:11 moritz_ ok, but if you invent new features, do you go to p5w first?
14:12 masak moritz_: good question. I don't know.
14:12 masak perhaps.
14:12 masak not with the parser stuff, because it's too much work to do in p5w.
14:12 masak but the new skin was prototyped in p5w first.
14:13 moritz_ I guess that answers my question, thanks
14:13 masak are you writing a tidings post? :)
14:14 moritz_ no, I'm wasting the time that I should use for my diploma thesis
14:14 masak :P
14:14 moritz_ hey, I already did one for January
14:14 masak ok, I should focus on giving you material for February, then. :)
14:15 moritz_ aye
14:15 moritz_ by improving S29 and u4x
14:15 masak ...in that order.
14:15 moritz_ :)
17:48 Tene_ zarah: tell ihrd that I am at github
17:48 zarah Consider it noted.
20:36 Tene joined #november-wiki

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