Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-04-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 ruoso joined #november-wiki
01:21 ihrd joined #november-wiki
01:58 ihrd left #november-wiki
02:20 Tene got something pretty cool working on the plane
02:21 Tene sub item($request, $match) is handler(/item\/(\d+)/) { ... }
02:24 sri_kraih_ looks interesting
02:24 Tene will nopaste a demo when I get home
03:49 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/714641
03:49 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/dza5eh
03:50 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/871770 is the output
03:50 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/cvxtcp
05:06 szabgab joined #november-wiki
07:48 szabgab joined #november-wiki
08:40 ihrd joined #november-wiki
09:54 ihrd left #november-wiki
16:09 masak joined #november-wiki
16:09 masak oh hai
16:09 zarah hi masak
16:09 zarah masak: You have new messages. Write '/msg zarah @messages' to read them.
16:09 masak @massage
16:09 zarah masak: 3 d 4 h 32 m 24 s ago, olass said I'd like to write bug 887, 901, 858 as P2 on your TODO-postit
16:09 zarah masak: 2 d 10 h 1 m 31 s ago, Tene_ said I got HTTPKKDaemon using parrot sockets... no socat required.  will build pastebin during work tomorrow, then commit when I can get to cafe after work
16:09 zarah masak: 2 d 9 h 59 m 14 s ago, Tene_ said I am also looking at mod-parrot on apache again
16:09 zarah masak: 2 d 2 h 53 m 20 s ago, Tene said to check out the sockets branch in web repo
16:10 Tene masak: I got a basic pastebin running, it's in the sockets branch
16:10 masak Tene: people have been hacking on sockets here too.
16:10 Tene fixed some issues with Tags
16:10 masak we should compare your efforts. :)
16:10 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/
16:10 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/dgyqj2
16:11 masak wow, a pastebin! :D
16:11 masak Tene++
16:11 Tene http://github.com/masak/web/blob/5ab471f52df2​aa325476682b5d9e79c9256fe92b/bin/kopipasta.pl
16:11 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/cuscah
16:11 masak Tene: let me just spend a minute being amazed by what you just said.
16:12 Tene which part?
16:12 masak well, both the sockets part and the pastebin part.
16:12 Tene http://github.com/masak/web/commit/01c​ca04fcd75de86e90b4e17f25750866dfdd0b5 is the patch that moves it to use sockets
16:12 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/cxkrsm
16:12 masak ihrd talked to me today and asked whether you were up to anything.
16:12 masak I said I didn't know. :)
16:12 Tene masak: if you really want to see something fun, lemme paste something cool I got running on the plane...
16:13 masak sure.
16:13 masak you're on a plane?
16:14 Tene I was last night
16:14 masak Tene: when I hit 'paste', I get "can't establish a connection".
16:14 Tene masak: I was just kicked offline for a bit.  should be back up now
16:15 masak ok.
16:15 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/585778
16:15 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/d6mujj
16:15 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/640319 is the output
16:15 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/d7morg
16:16 masak ok, so the 'is handler' thing is the fun part?
16:16 Tene Right.
16:16 masak does that work?
16:16 Tene Yes.
16:16 masak wow.
16:16 Tene 22 LOC
16:16 masak how... what...?
16:16 masak I'm...
16:17 masak I don't know what to say.
16:17 Tene http://pleasedieinafire.net:5080/4641
16:17 zarah Tene's link is also http://tinyurl.com/cl536u
16:17 Tene is the code
16:17 Tene It's not localizing the routing table to the caller namespace yet, but that's simple
16:17 masak Tene++
16:18 Tene I thought you'd enjoy it.
16:18 Tene No idea if it's a good solution, but it reminds me of catalyst.
16:18 Tene Certainly not a default/recommended solution, but nice to have.
16:18 masak aye.
16:18 masak we're here to evolve solutions, and then try to provide the best ones.
16:18 Tene I wrote it because I noticed that kopipasta.pl's dispatch table was just a bunch of regex -> funcall
16:18 masak this at least puts an idea on the table.
16:19 masak Tene: you should really talk to ihrd about this.
16:19 masak he's deep into dispatchers, and might have some feedback.
16:19 Tene I'd much prefer 'handles(...)' to 'is handler(...)', but rakudo doesn't do that yet.
16:19 Tene masak: I would, but neither of you have been around for the past few days (when I've actually been working on this).
16:20 masak right.
16:20 Tene masak: what was the other app you wanted me to work on after pastebin?
16:20 masak I've been to NPW2009.
16:20 masak Tene: I'd like to start working with you on the Genshi clone.
16:20 masak we need a name for that, just as for Happle.
16:21 Tene Sure, okay.  xml-based templating seems very wrong to me, but I think we've already had this discussion.
16:21 masak we can have it as many times as you like. :)
16:21 Tene oh, should I blogpost about this?  do I have enough for a blog post yet, do you think?
16:21 masak it's not that I want XML-based only, it's that I want it among the other alternatives.
16:22 masak Tene: definitely blog about it.
16:22 masak Tene: re XML, I think there are benefits to it, as well as costs.
16:22 Tene kopipasta needs much work, nicer error handling, etc.
16:23 Tene masak: OH!
16:23 Tene The big thing I needed to ask you.
16:23 masak it needs Web::Request and Web::Response :)
16:23 Tene Can I merge that sockets branch into trunk?
16:23 masak Tene: oh, definitely.
16:23 Tene Thanks. :)
16:23 masak the guys here at the hackathon have been working on a solution, but I don't think it's ready.
16:24 Tene rakudo needs much better sockets handling.  I'm just using inline PIR to build a socket.
16:24 Tene Because I didn't want to figure out the right way to do it with rakudo.
16:24 Tene Oh, and I need to update my rakudo and switch split() back again.
16:24 masak Tene: cosimo has been working on sockets in Rakudo.
16:25 omega Tene: I have fixed the split-problems in my fork
16:25 masak Tene: sorry about the split() thing. I glared at TimToady for breaking November, and he changed it back.
16:25 masak so now it's like in Perl 5 again.
16:25 Tene yeah, I know.
16:26 Tene masak: does it affect something like: $line.split(' '); ?
16:26 masak no.
16:26 masak the method form is the same.
16:26 Tene :)
16:26 masak see the appropriate spec change.
16:28 masak I like the name Kopipasta. it reminds me of the Swedish pirates.
16:29 Tene Estonian version of "copypasta"
16:29 Tene for "stuff that gets posted over and over"
16:32 masak aha.
16:32 masak our first Estonian-named module. :)
16:33 Tene oh, and kopipasta just keeps pastes in memory.  Doesn't save to filesystem yet.
16:33 masak so if it crashes...
16:33 Tene So is useless if run from CGI :)
16:33 Tene yes
16:33 masak right.
16:33 Tene that's my next goal
16:33 masak goodie.
16:34 Tene I really need to think a lot about dispatching... we need to have a backend system that can dispatch correctly from a persistent perl-based server, fastcgi, mod_perl6, etc.
16:34 masak Tene: meantime, I'll spend some portion of the evening making a small plan for porting Genshi.
16:34 Tene but not yet, I think.
16:34 Tene Okay.
16:34 Tene I think I'll try writing a social news site next.
16:35 Tene Post urls, vote on them, comment, etc.
16:35 masak ok.
16:35 Tene that might be a good space to try playing with templating.
16:35 masak sounds like something that'd have use for a Rails-like thing.
16:35 masak Tene: yes, and November could use that kind of templating too.
16:35 Tene eh?
16:36 masak "eh?" on Rails-like? well,
16:37 masak it sounds like a sufficiently large app that it might benefit from MVC.
16:37 Tene ah
16:37 masak (at least in my very limited understanding)
16:37 masak anyway,
16:38 masak the nice thing we can do with the Ganshi clone
16:38 masak is compile the templates down to PIR
16:38 masak which will be much faster than the HTML::Template we have now
16:38 Tene nodnod
16:38 Tene so you're thinking genshi templates will just be another Parrot language?
16:38 masak I'll be seriously looking into that in the coming week. if not sooner.
16:39 masak Tene: yes, quite possibly.
16:39 Tene That would be ideal for me.
16:39 masak it will probably be on the PCT.
16:39 Tene I'll reprioritize getting cross-hll working in rakudo again, then.
16:39 masak oh, please do.
16:39 masak I thought that worked already.
16:40 masak I'm not sure exactly how I want to do the HLL yet, because I would like to do the same thing with just XML too.
16:40 Tene I keep getting discouraged every time I work on it, because it seems sometimes like I'm the only person who cares.
16:40 masak and the former could ideally use the latter.
16:40 masak Tene: now you're no longer the only person who cares.
16:40 Tene It used to work, but with languages living out of the parrot tree, the hardcoded paths no longer work
16:40 Tene so allison added a load_language opcode
16:40 masak ok.
16:40 Tene which uses a language search path
16:40 Tene so I need to get rakudo to use it
16:41 masak ok.
16:41 Tene also, because of issues with PMCs and HLLs, no other language can call rakudo right now.
16:41 masak heh.
16:41 masak but we probably don't need that.
16:41 Tene rakudo can call any other language (as long as its in its own HLL namespace), but nobody can call rakudo, and rakudo can't move into its own HLL namespace.
16:41 Tene Which means that no other language can use modules written i Perl 6.
16:42 masak pity.
16:42 Tene Yeah.  Allison keeps saying she'll fix it when I ask her about it, and then she forgets until the next time I ask her.
16:43 Tene I'm thinking I might need to dive into it, but that's required extended concentration I haven't had available for a while
16:43 Tene but it's starting to look like I'm sleeping better lately, so I might be able to soon.
16:43 masak excellent.
16:52 masak Tene: we'll try to hack your sockets thing into the Rakudo setting now. I have mberends here beside me as a guide.
16:53 Tene :)
18:59 sri_kraih joined #november-wiki

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