Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-06-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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12:16 viklund joined #november-wiki
12:16 masak viklund: o/
12:16 viklund masak: y0
12:18 masak viklund: look! http://masak.org/carl/druid​/board-with-perspective.png
12:18 zarah masak's link is also http://tinyurl.com/mge66q
12:19 viklund is that the pic from your blog?
12:19 viklund it's cool!
12:19 masak no, this one has proper perspective! :)
12:19 * viklund is backlogging
12:19 viklund ahh
12:19 viklund mom
12:19 masak dad!
12:19 viklund COOL!
12:19 masak :)
12:20 masak see the difference?
12:20 viklund soon you have implemented proper rendering ;)
12:20 viklund yes
12:20 masak yes, next step is to do the surface sorting.
12:20 masak I've almost answered my own questions about the surface removal, too.
12:21 viklund good
12:22 masak I've learned through this exercise that Perl 6's 'map' is really nice for vector manipulations.
12:22 masak the syntax is slightly clunky, but the semantics is wonderful.
12:22 viklund in the druid tree I guess
12:23 * viklund pulls druid
12:23 masak yes, in bin/generate-board
12:23 masak I'll push the latest version now.
12:23 masak there, pushed.
12:24 viklund repulling...
12:25 masak really quite a small commit.
12:25 masak the surface sorting won't be.
12:25 viklund ;)
12:26 viklund so return (list) doesn't work in rakudo ;)
12:27 masak correct. it's a Parrot limitation, I think.
12:27 masak 'return' is a Parrot function.
12:27 viklund ok
12:28 masak but the restriction is really not that severe, since both [...].list and map { ... }, @array can be used as workarounds.
12:29 viklund why do you move the board around?
12:29 viklund (translate3d)
12:29 viklund ahh, to make the rotation work
12:30 masak yes, and the scaling.
12:30 masak and the second time, to move the board a bit away from the origin so the perspective won't be so glaring.
12:31 masak (that part of the code could really make some use of ==> )
12:31 viklund yes
12:31 viklund I was just going suggest that is't some kind of feed
12:31 masak maybe one could emulate it somehow.
12:32 viklund LISP!
12:33 masak er.
12:37 viklund func(1, 2, func2( 2, 3, func3(..)))
12:37 viklund Alva intermission ;)
12:39 masak yes, but unlike ==> that is executed RTL, and I don't want that.
12:40 viklund yes
12:40 viklund invent an operator
12:42 masak the thought crossed my mind.
12:42 masak but it seems more like a macro to me, since the operands aren't fully evaluated yet.
12:42 masak hm, 'course, I could send in &func and then a list of arguments...
12:42 viklund yes
12:42 masak yes, it could work. :)
12:45 masak rakudo: sub infix:<< ==> >>(@array, @func-and-params) { "OH HAI" }; say [1,2,3] ==> (&map, [])
12:45 p6eval rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
12:45 masak anyway, that works.
12:54 lichtkind joined #november-wiki
12:54 lichtkind masak: i filed again something
12:54 masak lichtkind: I'm sure you did. :) good work.
12:55 lichtkind masak: and the FAQ site is almost ready know, set some links too, slowly november gets content
12:55 masak well, november-wiki.org does.
12:56 lichtkind masak: ya naaa wadda mean :)
12:57 masak in this case, yes.
14:07 masak viklund: oh, and sorting of pieces is in now, too. :)
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16:13 eiro hello world
16:13 lichtkind hello eiro
16:17 eiro i don't know how to find the answer in the doc so i ask here: why every november code begins with use v6; ?
16:18 masak eiro: because they have to.
16:18 eiro masak, everything i've tested work without it
16:18 masak eiro: we try to follow the rules set up in the spec, and the spec says Perl 6 programs should have a 'use v6' declaration.
16:19 lichtkind masak: didn't you wanted to make the heading smaller?
16:19 lichtkind and column wider :)
16:19 masak lichtkind: I did make the heading smaller.
16:19 masak lichtkind: anyone is free to make a new layout with a wider content column.
16:19 eiro masak, ok ... so if it's a good pratice, i'll follow ot
16:19 eiro s/ot/it
16:19 masak eiro: I think it is.
16:20 eiro that's ok for me :)
16:20 masak eiro: the underlying reason is that implementations will eventually also run Perl 5 code. I think S01 explains it -- must check.
16:20 masak yup, S01:104.
16:20 ZuLuuuuuu masak: are you doing some design? may I look?
16:21 masak ZuLuuuuuu: sure. what exactly are we talking about? :)
16:21 lichtkind masak: i didn't notice because Perl 6 Interpreter still doesn tfit in one line
16:21 ZuLuuuuuu lichtkind: I did make the heading smaller.
16:21 ZuLuuuuuu [19:19] <masak> lichtkind: anyone is free to make a new layout with a wider content column.
16:21 masak ZuLuuuuuu: and from that you concluded that I'm doing some design?
16:22 ZuLuuuuuu hmm felt like you are talking about some css :)
16:22 eiro wow .. good catch masak! thanks
16:22 masak actually, it was the other way around, an invitation for others to do some design.
16:23 masak it would be great if November had a bunch of professional layouts to choose between.
16:24 masak I don't believe it's difficult to add a new design -- though I made the system, so I'm biased. it's certainly not documented in any real sense... but if anyone gives it a shot, do ask for guidance here. I'll happily provide it.
16:25 ZuLuuuuuu wish I had time, though I'm not professional, maybe at the and of the summer...
16:25 masak one doesn't need to be a professional to produce something professional-looking. :)
16:25 masak all that's needed is an eye for detail.
16:27 ZuLuuuuuu I agree :)
16:32 masak strange. #perl6 is quiet today, but we're at least four non-lurkers in here. :)
16:32 ZuLuuuuuu :)
16:32 masak I should wake people up in #perl6 with a golf challenge... :P
16:39 eiro masak, i'm trying to figure out what's the best way to write a conway sequence generator in perl6
16:39 eiro i wrote this one for perl 5: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look_and_say#En_Perl5
16:39 zarah eiro's link is also http://tinyurl.com/n2p6ek
16:40 masak oh, that's a Conway sequence.
16:41 masak well, the Perl 5 example on the wiki can be quite easily translated to Perl 6.
16:41 masak I'll give it a shot.
16:42 lichtkind masak yesterday i was really busy, added 40~50 new entry in perl tablets some november vontent plus many more
16:42 masak lichtkind: cool.
16:42 eiro masak, yeah but it sux ( i can tell it because it's mine ;) ) because it generate strings ... look at the haskell's one! it's so neat!
16:43 eiro i was trying to write something in the same spirit
16:43 lichtkind masak: and these 40 are in truth 80 because i do in 2 languages :)
16:43 lichtkind masak: are you happy so far with the nov-wiki content?
16:44 masak lichtkind: to tell the truth, I'm happy with you using November. my happiness is already at full through that state of affairs.
16:45 masak dang, out-golfed by TimToady. :P
16:46 lichtkind masak: i got several #perl6 folks to suggest things vor november content and mberens also fixes some quirks of mine yesterday
16:46 lichtkind masak: FAQ and Implementations page are minimal but stable so far
16:47 masak eiro: writing a straight Perl 6 translation was harder than I thought. :/
16:48 lichtkind masak: to me now most pressing missing feature are the internal links i have to rewrite as external
16:48 masak eiro: could you please propose this as a challenge on #perl6?
16:48 masak lichtkind: internal links don't work?
16:48 masak ouch.
16:48 lichtkind masak: only the simple ones
16:48 masak ...meaning...?
16:48 lichtkind masak [[that_works]]
16:48 masak ah, ok.
16:49 masak yes, that feels familiar.
16:49 lichtkind [[link_to_page|that dousnt]]
16:49 masak right.
16:49 lichtkind you cant relabel internal links
16:49 masak probably not very hard to fix, I think.
16:49 lichtkind i needed it twice so far
16:49 masak ok.
16:50 masak I'll see what I can do. :)
16:50 lichtkind that would be great
16:50 lichtkind its already filed
16:50 masak excellent.
16:50 masak lichtkind++
16:50 lichtkind :)
16:50 lichtkind delete page butto would be nice
16:50 lichtkind masak: i also filed suggestion for navigation menu
16:52 masak lichtkind: do you think that anyone should be able to delete a page?
16:52 lichtkind masak: sometimes its necesarry if a page has to be renamed
16:52 masak lichtkind: well, 'Move' would be better in that case.
16:53 lichtkind yes that is even more helpfull since it autogenerates a foreward :)
16:53 masak exactly.
16:53 lichtkind but ni think november dont support forewarding yet
16:53 masak it doesn't.
16:53 lichtkind yes but with that working links and history i would be happy
16:54 lichtkind if than tags with spaces in it work also it will be normal usable
16:55 lichtkind ah and remove that... i file it :)
16:55 lichtkind i added also new issue category in november github
16:57 masak ok.
16:58 lichtkind for more cosmetics
16:58 lichtkind called visuals to seperate it from real coding things
17:00 masak sounds good.
17:01 lichtkind yes and has now 2 items :)
17:03 masak eiro: you have indirectly unearthed a rakudobug! :)
17:04 lichtkind masak: i  also revamped some tpf wiki pages but parts are beyond repair so im glad to make it in november more implistic
17:04 masak nod.
17:06 lichtkind but as soon we have enough content we will replace the front page a bit: that will then say: this is november , perl 6 in action, there projects, docs and implementations all nicely linked and rest is up to user to click where he wants
17:06 masak ok. sounds good to me.
17:09 lichtkind great it could really make difference like pugs once
17:09 masak we can only hope.
17:09 lichtkind i do pray and get results :)
17:10 lichtkind but i have a list of wishes more
17:10 lichtkind the FAQ i could not nicely format yet
17:10 lichtkind there was no way to indend
17:10 lichtkind or make boxes
17:11 masak :/
17:13 masak I have tests for dl-type lists. they're in t/markup/mediawiki/14-definition-lists.t
17:14 masak but right now I can't seem to run them manually. I get a strange error. investigating.
17:14 lichtkind dont worry we get this too but next week will i be away
17:15 masak good :) then viklund and I can reduce the issue count back to zero and give you a surprise when you come back. :)
17:18 masak ah, found the error. it was bit rot in Test::InputOutput.
17:19 masak no, we don't have definition lists yet. (and hence not indentation)
17:29 lichtkind good masak++
17:36 eiro masak, cool :)
17:36 eiro my modest contrib to this awsome project :)
17:36 masak eiro: but I got sidetracked from actually porting the one-liner. :)
17:37 lichtkind eiro: what you did?
17:37 masak eiro: at least now I know it's possible.
17:37 masak lichtkind: helpful grammar note: it's "what did you do?" in standard English.
17:37 eiro lichtkind, i don't know: masak knows :)
17:37 masak eiro asked me for a way to port a line of Perl 5 code, and I found and reported a rakudobug.
17:38 eiro argghh there is no doc for Web.pm isn't it ?
17:38 lichtkind masak: yes that was denglish
17:38 lichtkind deutsch(german) + english
17:38 masak eiro: anything in particular I can help with?
17:39 viklund shouldn't that be "deulish"?
17:39 viklund (perhaps deunglish)
17:40 lichtkind denglish flows better :)
17:40 eiro masak, no ... i wrote a kinda MARC::Record subset in perl6 and i would like tu write a web based marc record editor. i just don't know how to start :)
17:40 masak eiro: you're _exactly_ the target group for Web.pm :)
17:41 masak eiro: unfortunately, the documentation is lacking to the point of non-existent.
17:41 masak eiro: and even the example blog is slightly outdated.
17:41 eiro so what ? read the november code ?
17:42 viklund November doesn't use Web.m
17:42 masak yet.
17:42 eiro arghh ...
17:42 viklund Web.pm*
17:42 masak eiro: but read the blog code, fwiw.
17:42 eiro any clue so ?
17:42 masak I'll throw you a link.
17:42 eiro ok
17:42 eiro i got it
17:42 eiro :)
17:42 masak oh, good.
17:42 masak eiro: and... good luck!
17:43 masak I'd be extremely interested to hear about your progress.
17:44 eiro well ... you already told me that but i have to admit i have not enought time for it :(
17:45 lichtkind masak: but recent changes is good enough now since you see all changes not only last change of a site
17:45 masak eiro: we're all on restricted time budgets. that's a part of being an employed/studious person with lots of interests.
17:45 eiro my first attempt is to create a perl6 module to ease the creation of menus with http://plugins.jquery.com/project/mbMenu
17:45 zarah eiro's link is also http://tinyurl.com/c9dhvf
17:46 eiro masak, sure
17:49 masak and, now... food.
17:50 viklund dang
17:51 viklund masak come back! Everything is forgiven!
17:51 viklund ;)
17:51 viklund ah well
17:51 * viklund hacks away at November
17:56 eiro also food ... beginning a familly evening ... cya all
18:17 lichtkind added concurrency commands to index
18:56 lichtkind do you kno mberens real name?
19:05 viklund nope
19:05 viklund martin perhaps...
19:05 viklund though, that's a guess
19:51 lichtkind yes i think it was martin sounds very german amrtin berend
19:51 lichtkind martin
21:20 lichtkind ha almost completed newest article
21:25 viklund nice ;)
21:32 lichtkind viklund: it was the correction reading before printing, i wrote last part of the german 8 part perl 6 tutorial and my yearly update of the state of the perl 6 :)
21:32 lichtkind viklund: see it as groundwork to write good vovember articles :)
21:50 viklund great
23:15 lichtkind http://use.perl.org/~perl6doc/
23:15 zarah lichtkind's link is also http://tinyurl.com/ntefeb
23:15 lichtkind good night

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