IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-06-20

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
01:16		amoc joined #november-wiki
05:59		ihrd joined #november-wiki
06:01		ihrd left #november-wiki
07:38		ihrd joined #november-wiki
08:02		ihrd left #november-wiki
08:54		ZuLuuuuuu joined #november-wiki
11:32		masak joined #november-wiki
12:16		viklund joined #november-wiki
12:16	masak	viklund: o/
12:16	viklund	masak: y0
12:18	masak	viklund: look! http://masak.org/carl/druid/bo[…]h-perspective.png
12:18	zarah	masak's link is also http://tinyurl.com/mge66q
12:19	viklund	is that the pic from your blog?
12:19	viklund	it's cool!
12:19	masak	no, this one has proper perspective! :)
12:19	* viklund	is backlogging
12:19	viklund	ahh
12:19	viklund	mom
12:19	masak	dad!
12:19	viklund	COOL!
12:19	masak	:)
12:20	masak	see the difference?
12:20	viklund	soon you have implemented proper rendering ;)
12:20	viklund	yes
12:20	masak	yes, next step is to do the surface sorting.
12:20	masak	I've almost answered my own questions about the surface removal, too.
12:21	viklund	good
12:22	masak	I've learned through this exercise that Perl 6's 'map' is really nice for vector manipulations.
12:22	masak	the syntax is slightly clunky, but the semantics is wonderful.
12:22	viklund	in the druid tree I guess
12:23	* viklund	pulls druid
12:23	masak	yes, in bin/generate-board
12:23	masak	I'll push the latest version now.
12:23	masak	there, pushed.
12:24	viklund	repulling...
12:25	masak	really quite a small commit.
12:25	masak	the surface sorting won't be.
12:25	viklund	;)
12:26	viklund	so return (list) doesn't work in rakudo ;)
12:27	masak	correct. it's a Parrot limitation, I think.
12:27	masak	'return' is a Parrot function.
12:27	viklund	ok
12:28	masak	but the restriction is really not that severe, since both [...].list and map { ... }, @array can be used as workarounds.
12:29	viklund	why do you move the board around?
12:29	viklund	(translate3d)
12:29	viklund	ahh, to make the rotation work
12:30	masak	yes, and the scaling.
12:30	masak	and the second time, to move the board a bit away from the origin so the perspective won't be so glaring.
12:31	masak	(that part of the code could really make some use of ==> )
12:31	viklund	yes
12:31	viklund	I was just going suggest that is't some kind of feed
12:31	masak	maybe one could emulate it somehow.
12:32	viklund	LISP!
12:33	masak	er.
12:37	viklund	func(1, 2, func2( 2, 3, func3(..)))
12:37	viklund	Alva intermission ;)
12:39	masak	yes, but unlike ==> that is executed RTL, and I don't want that.
12:40	viklund	yes
12:40	viklund	invent an operator
12:42	masak	the thought crossed my mind.
12:42	masak	but it seems more like a macro to me, since the operands aren't fully evaluated yet.
12:42	masak	hm, 'course, I could send in &func and then a list of arguments...
12:42	viklund	yes
12:42	masak	yes, it could work. :)
12:45	masak	rakudo: sub infix:<< ==> >>(@array, @func-and-params) { "OH HAI" }; say [1,2,3] ==> (&map, [])
12:45	p6eval	rakudo 1b06df: OUTPUT«sh: ./perl6: No such file or directory␤»
12:45	masak	anyway, that works.
12:54		lichtkind joined #november-wiki
12:54	lichtkind	masak: i filed again something
12:54	masak	lichtkind: I'm sure you did. :) good work.
12:55	lichtkind	masak: and the FAQ site is almost ready know, set some links too, slowly november gets content
12:55	masak	well, november-wiki.org does.
12:56	lichtkind	masak: ya naaa wadda mean :)
12:57	masak	in this case, yes.
14:07	masak	viklund: oh, and sorting of pieces is in now, too. :)
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16:13	eiro	hello world
16:13	lichtkind	hello eiro
16:17	eiro	i don't know how to find the answer in the doc so i ask here: why every november code begins with use v6; ?
16:18	masak	eiro: because they have to.
16:18	eiro	masak, everything i've tested work without it
16:18	masak	eiro: we try to follow the rules set up in the spec, and the spec says Perl 6 programs should have a 'use v6' declaration.
16:19	lichtkind	masak: didn't you wanted to make the heading smaller?
16:19	lichtkind	and column wider :)
16:19	masak	lichtkind: I did make the heading smaller.
16:19	masak	lichtkind: anyone is free to make a new layout with a wider content column.
16:19	eiro	masak, ok ... so if it's a good pratice, i'll follow ot
16:19	eiro	s/ot/it
16:19	masak	eiro: I think it is.
16:20	eiro	that's ok for me :)
16:20	masak	eiro: the underlying reason is that implementations will eventually also run Perl 5 code. I think S01 explains it -- must check.
16:20	masak	yup, S01:104.
16:20	ZuLuuuuuu	masak: are you doing some design? may I look?
16:21	masak	ZuLuuuuuu: sure. what exactly are we talking about? :)
16:21	lichtkind	masak: i didn't notice because Perl 6 Interpreter still doesn tfit in one line
16:21	ZuLuuuuuu	lichtkind: I did make the heading smaller.
16:21	ZuLuuuuuu	[19:19] <masak> lichtkind: anyone is free to make a new layout with a wider content column.
16:21	masak	ZuLuuuuuu: and from that you concluded that I'm doing some design?
16:22	ZuLuuuuuu	hmm felt like you are talking about some css :)
16:22	eiro	wow .. good catch masak! thanks
16:22	masak	actually, it was the other way around, an invitation for others to do some design.
16:23	masak	it would be great if November had a bunch of professional layouts to choose between.
16:24	masak	I don't believe it's difficult to add a new design -- though I made the system, so I'm biased. it's certainly not documented in any real sense... but if anyone gives it a shot, do ask for guidance here. I'll happily provide it.
16:25	ZuLuuuuuu	wish I had time, though I'm not professional, maybe at the and of the summer...
16:25	masak	one doesn't need to be a professional to produce something professional-looking. :)
16:25	masak	all that's needed is an eye for detail.
16:27	ZuLuuuuuu	I agree :)
16:32	masak	strange. #perl6 is quiet today, but we're at least four non-lurkers in here. :)
16:32	ZuLuuuuuu	:)
16:32	masak	I should wake people up in #perl6 with a golf challenge... :P
16:39	eiro	masak, i'm trying to figure out what's the best way to write a conway sequence generator in perl6
16:39	eiro	i wrote this one for perl 5: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/L[…]_and_say#En_Perl5
16:39	zarah	eiro's link is also http://tinyurl.com/n2p6ek
16:40	masak	oh, that's a Conway sequence.
16:41	masak	well, the Perl 5 example on the wiki can be quite easily translated to Perl 6.
16:41	masak	I'll give it a shot.
16:42	lichtkind	masak yesterday i was really busy, added 40~50 new entry in perl tablets some november vontent plus many more
16:42	masak	lichtkind: cool.
16:42	eiro	masak, yeah but it sux ( i can tell it because it's mine ;) ) because it generate strings ... look at the haskell's one! it's so neat!
16:43	eiro	i was trying to write something in the same spirit
16:43	lichtkind	masak: and these 40 are in truth 80 because i do in 2 languages :)
16:43	lichtkind	masak: are you happy so far with the nov-wiki content?
16:44	masak	lichtkind: to tell the truth, I'm happy with you using November. my happiness is already at full through that state of affairs.
16:45	masak	dang, out-golfed by TimToady. :P
16:46	lichtkind	masak: i got several #perl6 folks to suggest things vor november content and mberens also fixes some quirks of mine yesterday
16:46	lichtkind	masak: FAQ and Implementations page are minimal but stable so far
16:47	masak	eiro: writing a straight Perl 6 translation was harder than I thought. :/
16:48	lichtkind	masak: to me now most pressing missing feature are the internal links i have to rewrite as external
16:48	masak	eiro: could you please propose this as a challenge on #perl6?
16:48	masak	lichtkind: internal links don't work?
16:48	masak	ouch.
16:48	lichtkind	masak: only the simple ones
16:48	masak	...meaning...?
16:48	lichtkind	masak [[that_works]]
16:48	masak	ah, ok.
16:49	masak	yes, that feels familiar.
16:49	lichtkind	[[link_to_page\|that dousnt]]
16:49	masak	right.
16:49	lichtkind	you cant relabel internal links
16:49	masak	probably not very hard to fix, I think.
16:49	lichtkind	i needed it twice so far
16:49	masak	ok.
16:50	masak	I'll see what I can do. :)
16:50	lichtkind	that would be great
16:50	lichtkind	its already filed
16:50	masak	excellent.
16:50	masak	lichtkind++
16:50	lichtkind	:)
16:50	lichtkind	delete page butto would be nice
16:50	lichtkind	masak: i also filed suggestion for navigation menu
16:52	masak	lichtkind: do you think that anyone should be able to delete a page?
16:52	lichtkind	masak: sometimes its necesarry if a page has to be renamed
16:52	masak	lichtkind: well, 'Move' would be better in that case.
16:53	lichtkind	yes that is even more helpfull since it autogenerates a foreward :)
16:53	masak	exactly.
16:53	lichtkind	but ni think november dont support forewarding yet
16:53	masak	it doesn't.
16:53	lichtkind	yes but with that working links and history i would be happy
16:54	lichtkind	if than tags with spaces in it work also it will be normal usable
16:55	lichtkind	ah and remove that... i file it :)
16:55	lichtkind	i added also new issue category in november github
16:57	masak	ok.
16:58	lichtkind	for more cosmetics
16:58	lichtkind	called visuals to seperate it from real coding things
17:00	masak	sounds good.
17:01	lichtkind	yes and has now 2 items :)
17:03	masak	eiro: you have indirectly unearthed a rakudobug! :)
17:04	lichtkind	masak: i also revamped some tpf wiki pages but parts are beyond repair so im glad to make it in november more implistic
17:04	masak	nod.
17:06	lichtkind	but as soon we have enough content we will replace the front page a bit: that will then say: this is november , perl 6 in action, there projects, docs and implementations all nicely linked and rest is up to user to click where he wants
17:06	masak	ok. sounds good to me.
17:09	lichtkind	great it could really make difference like pugs once
17:09	masak	we can only hope.
17:09	lichtkind	i do pray and get results :)
17:10	lichtkind	but i have a list of wishes more
17:10	lichtkind	the FAQ i could not nicely format yet
17:10	lichtkind	there was no way to indend
17:10	lichtkind	or make boxes
17:11	masak	:/
17:13	masak	I have tests for dl-type lists. they're in t/markup/mediawiki/14-definition-lists.t
17:14	masak	but right now I can't seem to run them manually. I get a strange error. investigating.
17:14	lichtkind	dont worry we get this too but next week will i be away
17:15	masak	good :) then viklund and I can reduce the issue count back to zero and give you a surprise when you come back. :)
17:18	masak	ah, found the error. it was bit rot in Test::InputOutput.
17:19	masak	no, we don't have definition lists yet. (and hence not indentation)
17:29	lichtkind	good masak++
17:36	eiro	masak, cool :)
17:36	eiro	my modest contrib to this awsome project :)
17:36	masak	eiro: but I got sidetracked from actually porting the one-liner. :)
17:37	lichtkind	eiro: what you did?
17:37	masak	eiro: at least now I know it's possible.
17:37	masak	lichtkind: helpful grammar note: it's "what did you do?" in standard English.
17:37	eiro	lichtkind, i don't know: masak knows :)
17:37	masak	eiro asked me for a way to port a line of Perl 5 code, and I found and reported a rakudobug.
17:38	eiro	argghh there is no doc for Web.pm isn't it ?
17:38	lichtkind	masak: yes that was denglish
17:38	lichtkind	deutsch(german) + english
17:38	masak	eiro: anything in particular I can help with?
17:39	viklund	shouldn't that be "deulish"?
17:39	viklund	(perhaps deunglish)
17:40	lichtkind	denglish flows better :)
17:40	eiro	masak, no ... i wrote a kinda MARC::Record subset in perl6 and i would like tu write a web based marc record editor. i just don't know how to start :)
17:40	masak	eiro: you're _exactly_ the target group for Web.pm :)
17:41	masak	eiro: unfortunately, the documentation is lacking to the point of non-existent.
17:41	masak	eiro: and even the example blog is slightly outdated.
17:41	eiro	so what ? read the november code ?
17:42	viklund	November doesn't use Web.m
17:42	masak	yet.
17:42	eiro	arghh ...
17:42	viklund	Web.pm*
17:42	masak	eiro: but read the blog code, fwiw.
17:42	eiro	any clue so ?
17:42	masak	I'll throw you a link.
17:42	eiro	ok
17:42	eiro	i got it
17:42	eiro	:)
17:42	masak	oh, good.
17:42	masak	eiro: and... good luck!
17:43	masak	I'd be extremely interested to hear about your progress.
17:44	eiro	well ... you already told me that but i have to admit i have not enought time for it :(
17:45	lichtkind	masak: but recent changes is good enough now since you see all changes not only last change of a site
17:45	masak	eiro: we're all on restricted time budgets. that's a part of being an employed/studious person with lots of interests.
17:45	eiro	my first attempt is to create a perl6 module to ease the creation of menus with http://plugins.jquery.com/project/mbMenu
17:45	zarah	eiro's link is also http://tinyurl.com/c9dhvf
17:46	eiro	masak, sure
17:49	masak	and, now... food.
17:50	viklund	dang
17:51	viklund	masak come back! Everything is forgiven!
17:51	viklund	;)
17:51	viklund	ah well
17:51	* viklund	hacks away at November
17:56	eiro	also food ... beginning a familly evening ... cya all
18:17	lichtkind	added concurrency commands to index
18:56	lichtkind	do you kno mberens real name?
19:05	viklund	nope
19:05	viklund	martin perhaps...
19:05	viklund	though, that's a guess
19:51	lichtkind	yes i think it was martin sounds very german amrtin berend
19:51	lichtkind	martin
21:20	lichtkind	ha almost completed newest article
21:25	viklund	nice ;)
21:32	lichtkind	viklund: it was the correction reading before printing, i wrote last part of the german 8 part perl 6 tutorial and my yearly update of the state of the perl 6 :)
21:32	lichtkind	viklund: see it as groundwork to write good vovember articles :)
21:50	viklund	great
23:15	lichtkind	http://use.perl.org/~perl6doc/
23:15	zarah	lichtkind's link is also http://tinyurl.com/ntefeb
23:15	lichtkind	good night