Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-06-23

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Time Nick Message
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16:12 masak viklund and I are doing a hackathon-con-carne today.
16:12 viklund no, it's hackathon-stroganoff
16:12 masak oh, right.
16:12 masak but stroganoff is a kind of carne, right? :) I mean, if you don't ask the European Union.
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17:42 viklund o/ lichtkind
17:42 lichtkind hello viklund
17:43 lichtkind viklund: sunday i wrote by abstract for my YAPC talk
17:43 lichtkind laszt section is abput november
17:43 masak lichtkind: we're having our bi-weekly Tuesday hackathon.
17:43 viklund nice
17:44 lichtkind masak: now?
17:44 masak yes, right now.
17:45 lichtkind thats grat my wishlist is short, fix tags and links please
17:46 masak will do.
17:47 masak I think I'll concentrate on the MediaWiki markup, since that's my baby.
17:49 viklund I'll add hashed passwords
17:49 lichtkind viklund: what you man by that
17:50 viklund currently we store passwords as plaintext in a file on the server
17:50 viklund "We are not impressed"
17:50 masak nor amused.
17:51 lichtkind masak: i filed both issues so you know what i mean
17:52 lichtkind i currently have to proof read something but can also add a page to november wiki
17:52 lichtkind my todo foe today is add filetest opps to index
17:52 viklund lichtkind: good work
17:52 lichtkind viklund: its not yet done :)
17:53 masak lichtkind: good partial work.
17:53 lichtkind haha
17:54 lichtkind but im really grad heres hackthon s there will be more action than in #perlde :)
17:54 masak of course!
17:55 masak when we have hackathons, there's more action than in many Marvel film adaptions.
17:57 lichtkind hahah
17:57 lichtkind masak i wanted to start now :)
17:57 lichtkind but i join you as an english hacker
17:57 masak so go ahead.
17:57 masak lichtkind: so you hack the English language?
17:58 masak is it a DDOS of some kind? :P
17:58 lichtkind masak: haha no hacking in english rather than in PIR, aufrey once called people who write docs english hacker and i like the term
17:58 masak we don't hack in PIR either.
17:58 masak we hack in Perl 6.
17:59 lichtkind you mean NQP?
17:59 masak no, real, honest-to-God Perl 6.
17:59 masak like, the real thing.
17:59 masak (only it's not done yet, of course. but still.)
18:00 masak but it's not Not Quite Perl. it's quite Perly already. :)
18:01 lichtkind ah yes
18:08 lichtkind yeah i gt my books now one of them i thought was out of print :)
18:14 viklund what books?
18:16 masak mm, books.
18:25 lichtkind books i bought over internet
18:26 lichtkind du you know: sub rand { return 4 } #made of a decent dice role :)
18:26 viklund lichtkind: no it's supposed to be
18:26 masak yes, 4 is very random.
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18:27 viklund sub rand { return 4; #{ guaranteed to be random, confirmed by rolling a die }}
18:27 viklund or something like that
18:32 lichtkind masak: you look bit like a friend i had in school
18:32 masak lichtkind: I feel sorry for him. :)
18:33 lichtkind why you dont look bad
18:33 masak no, but I do bad jokes.
18:42 lichtkind can't believ how i stepped into perl world so fast first  i talked ta frankfurt,pm than at larger meeting, then german perl workshop, than YAPC, netx i will gice complete wxperl workshop on my own :)
18:43 lichtkind es some would call in drinkin beer and hangin in the woods :)
18:49 lichtkind now go watsching a glacier melting http://github.com/viklund/november/issues :)
18:49 zarah lichtkind's link is also http://tinyurl.com/q77dpu
18:51 masak lichtkind: are you complaining about our speed? :)
18:51 lichtkind no that was a german bad joke :)
18:52 masak lichtkind: are you also a conspiracy nut?
18:53 viklund ...
18:53 lichtkind masak: yes i am and proud of it
18:53 masak lichtkind: so you should be!
18:53 masak lichtkind: not many people today take UFOs seriously enough.
18:53 lichtkind masak: even larry caleld be that way :)
18:54 masak Kal-El?
18:54 lichtkind masak: i currently prepare talk about that
18:54 lichtkind ask me anything
18:54 lichtkind Kal El?
18:54 viklund Kal-El?
18:54 masak lichtkind: what is your opinion about the remaining debris from Krypton?
18:54 lichtkind i mena called
18:54 lichtkind masak: i thought you take that seriously?
18:55 masak I do. I actually possess some kryptonite.
18:55 masak it's in the form of a cross, so I can keep both Superman and Dracula away.
18:57 lichtkind i mean really serious :)
18:57 masak oh, sorry. :) I thought you meant the other kind.
18:58 lichtkind i found people stupif who lough about UFO but on the other side complain about politics of george bush
18:58 lichtkind stupid
18:58 lichtkind if we had that technology we dont would need oil
18:58 masak very true.
18:58 masak and the government is keeping all the cool tech.
18:59 lichtkind actually most governmanet has no clue about that
19:00 lichtkind its compatmentalized in secret service special access project and by contractors
19:00 lichtkind government
19:00 masak yes, figures.
19:01 lichtkind if anybody would ignore circumstance and just act on the base what he find right we wouldn't have most of the problems
19:02 lichtkind most are bunch of crooks including obama
19:04 masak yeah, crooks. now where is that parsing bug hiding?
19:12 lichtkind masak: where you have seen that  im conspiracy nut?
19:12 masak lichtkind: through the backlog.
19:13 lichtkind masak: you mean IRC log?
19:13 masak lichtkind: yes.
19:14 lichtkind ah
19:18 lichtkind even my nickname is supposed to show people: i know you thinks its crazy but i believe in it what you gonna do ? :)
19:19 masak "light child", right?
19:19 lichtkind for folks who know subtle connotations of german :)
19:19 lichtkind right
19:19 masak what are those subtle connotations?
19:19 lichtkind it has connotations to a kind of spirituality/okkultism
19:20 masak oh.
19:22 lichtkind masak: its far less special that poser like you to believe
19:23 masak yes, but it happens. apparently.
19:23 lichtkind what happens?
19:23 lichtkind masak: magic is nothing that feeling, thoughts and some applied knowledge of nature
19:23 masak that posers like I believe.
19:24 lichtkind masak: thats pretty common that people who are unhappy with their current state try to deperate things that cant work
19:24 masak I guess it is.
19:27 lichtkind plain file mean simple file?
19:27 masak no, it most often means plain text.
19:29 lichtkind but in the sense otf the table i currently translating i suggest it means real file and no dir, socket whatever
19:33 spinclad is the subtle connotation that 'light child' means 'child of light'?
19:33 masak lichtkind: yes, in that sense, it does mean that.
19:35 lichtkind spinclad: no this connotation implies a relation to a subsulture that believe in light an love and are somewhat soft in talk and behaviour
19:36 * masak believes in light and love
19:36 lichtkind masak: me too :)
19:36 * spinclad too
19:36 lichtkind :)
19:36 viklund pfft, light...
19:36 lichtkind misspelling i ment subculture
19:36 lichtkind viklund: loves darkness :)
19:36 spinclad so it's the next connotation that's a bit subtle, not just the first
19:37 lichtkind spinclad: what you mena?
19:37 lichtkind mean
19:38 viklund no, light and dark just are, it's not something I believe in, I don't believe in the chair I'm sitting on either
19:38 masak I like light in the right amount. neither too dark nor too bright.
19:38 viklund darkness*
19:38 spinclad as the quakers speak of an 'inner light', and buddhists speak of 'radiant mind'
19:38 masak love, on the other hand, I don't see a necessity to limit in any way.
19:39 spinclad and 'illumination' is a generally shared subtlety
19:39 masak yes, that's something that can be reached.
19:40 masak just like 'enlightenment'.
19:41 lichtkind viklund: believe is an absent state of fear
19:42 spinclad me, i don't believe in believing
19:42 viklund lichtkind: I don't understand a word of that
19:43 masak viklund: or "I _believe_ I don't understand a word of that"...
19:43 lichtkind viklund: but i do thatswhy i tell so that we dont misunderstand
19:44 lichtkind sorry
19:44 lichtkind haha
19:44 * masak laughs
19:44 lichtkind viklund: i said that believing is the absent of fear
19:45 masak lichtkind: actually, I'm not sure I understand that statement either.
19:45 masak would that mean that only fearless people have beliefs?
19:45 masak that sounds wrong, somehow.
19:45 lichtkind masak: i mean absence,
19:45 lichtkind masak: yes
19:45 lichtkind masak: why ?
19:45 spinclad i could say that letting go of belief is letting go of fear, but nobody would understand me either
19:46 masak lichtkind: because I know many fearful people who believe.
19:46 lichtkind spinclad: i understand what you say
19:46 masak spinclad: I understand that better, at least.
19:46 lichtkind its true that church exploited fears of people and called that believe
19:46 lichtkind but believe in the sense real master use is something opposite
19:48 viklund bah, humbug!
19:50 masak lichtkind: viklund, you see, is a skeptic. :)
19:50 lichtkind viklund: god gave you freedom to believe what you choose :)
19:50 spinclad i think i believe in this chair in such a sense; i don't have to believe in it, i just sit in it.
19:50 masak it takes a certain amount of humour to include atheists in your creation. :)
19:51 lichtkind spinclad: thats the point and when im connected to my soul or god that i experience it i dont need to "believe" just communicate :)
19:51 spinclad chair and body take care of eachself and eachother
19:52 lichtkind spinclad: that i dont understand :)
19:52 lichtkind masak: i like atheist
19:52 lichtkind masak: i just go around people who are that heatless that they yell at people only because they dont share there view
19:53 lichtkind heartless
19:53 spinclad the fields making up chair and body take care of themselves; the world manages itself; my 'self' doesn't have to manage the world.
19:54 masak lichtkind: that's shortsighted of them. there are so many views, and a person can only hold one of them, a few at most.
19:54 lichtkind spinclad: true
19:55 * lichtkind finished to translate the table of filetest op
19:55 spinclad 'views are countless, having views unavoidable, i vow to let go of them all'
19:55 masak spinclad: good luck. :)
19:55 spinclad 'having dropped all views, they will no longer impede the hackathon'
19:56 lichtkind spinclad: i understand but view often is nothing than remembering of your experience
19:58 lichtkind yes i want to say also lets get something done
19:58 lichtkind i have reached my first point http://wiki.perl-community.de/cgi-bin/foswiki/view​/Wissensbasis/PerlTafelAnhangB#Dateitestoperatoren
19:58 zarah lichtkind's link is also http://tinyurl.com/l537br
19:59 lichtkind thats 18 ops * 2 languages, lot of work :)
20:01 * spinclad bids 'happy hacking' &
20:04 masak thanks, spinclad.
20:17 lichtkind masak: do you plan to remove that back too link?
20:17 masak lichtkind: I certainly wouldn't oppose it.
20:18 lichtkind masak: like you said in the top line should only be log out
20:18 lichtkind and when log in maybe an authors tool menu
20:19 lichtkind masak: but I really liek how thinks improved since i came here
20:19 masak lichtkind: yes, and much thanks to you.
20:19 masak lichtkind++
20:20 lichtkind as much i like take credit, you both implemented it
20:21 lichtkind first 4 fileops are in place
20:22 masak you provided the impetus.
20:22 lichtkind masak: and i see here really a opportunity to build a wiki that doesnt suck
20:23 masak lichtkind: yes, that would be a nice bonus of this work.
20:23 masak "November -- a wiki that doesn't suck"
20:23 lichtkind ahaha
20:24 * lichtkind throws some chocolates in the round
20:24 lichtkind i really have here a box , but need black technology to serve it through timespace :)
20:24 lichtkind i mean spacetime
20:24 masak well, that clears it all up.
20:25 lichtkind according to einstein is timespace the realm there you have 3 time dimention and linear space
20:25 lichtkind weird guy this einstein
20:26 lichtkind spacetime is our reception: 3 space dimentions and one time
20:27 lichtkind masak: masak but dont tell larry or he creates spacetime and timespace operator for perl 6
20:27 masak lichtkind: I think he knows about spacetime already.
20:27 masak he's quite well-read.
20:27 lichtkind were doomed perl 6 has to wait for real quantum computers :)
20:28 masak lichtkind: no, it doesn't.
20:28 lichtkind it wa a joke
20:28 masak oh. ah hah haa.
20:28 lichtkind but current quantum computers can make a squareroot in one step
20:29 lichtkind of course in conspiracy terms IBM already build it 20 years ago
20:38 masak of course.
20:43 lichtkind masak: :) what really sucks on socialtext wiki is that you click on a word intuitively to select and then copy it but if you double click on it you go into edit mode
20:43 lichtkind masak: thats insane most people want just read
20:43 masak lichtkind: haven't used socialtext much.
20:44 lichtkind masak: i have to
20:48 lichtkind masak: be glad you dont just dont do that with november :) it drives me up the wall like spiderman
20:48 masak spiderman drives you up the wall?
20:52 lichtkind masak: :) no i go up the wall like spider man when socialtext goes unintenionally in edit mode
20:53 lichtkind many people went crazy whe i announce to write english perl docs
20:53 lichtkind but hej the don't here to help :)
20:54 masak why did they go crazy?
20:55 lichtkind masak: because im famous for my dislexia, at least in german perl community
20:55 masak lichtkind: aww. well, we like you anyway. :)
20:55 lichtkind thanks you
20:55 masak we're so glad -- to the point of giddiness -- to have a user.
20:56 lichtkind :) thats kind
20:56 masak lichtkind: I've fixed two bugs for you tonight.
20:56 lichtkind what is giddiness?
20:56 lichtkind great what bugs?
20:56 lichtkind so your finished?
20:56 masak lichtkind: giddiness is when you're so happy you're almost giggling.
20:56 lichtkind ah
20:56 masak lichtkind: bugs #16 and #14.
20:57 lichtkind part of your luck is that the treated me in wikipedia like shit that im not any longer there except for perl stuff
20:57 masak the first one caused crashes when there was an empty line at the end of an article.
20:57 masak the second one was the one with [[Spaces in links]]
20:57 lichtkind great
20:58 masak yes, I'm getting warmed up! :)
20:58 lichtkind could you also implement labeled links?
20:58 masak probably... is there a ticket for it? :)
20:58 lichtkind it is
20:58 masak \o/
20:58 lichtkind i filed any issue i encountered
20:59 masak excellent.
20:59 lichtkind what decides if an issue is marked unread, when viklund reads it?
20:59 viklund yes, when I've read something it's read.
21:00 masak I think so too.
21:00 lichtkind of course its your repository
21:00 viklund no, seriously I think it is when you've read it yourself or smth
21:00 lichtkind masak: http://github.com/viklund/november/issues#issue/19
21:00 zarah lichtkind's link is also http://tinyurl.com/q77dpu
21:00 viklund my own issues gets marked as unread until I read them (which is quite strange)
21:00 lichtkind it is
21:00 masak mysterious.
21:00 viklund I mean, I created it, I should know whats there
21:01 lichtkind and qhy github say there are 21 unread but when opening that section
21:01 lichtkind there are only 8
21:01 viklund ehm, are you looking at opened?
21:02 lichtkind viklund: no open say 9 and there are 9
21:02 lichtkind but unread say 21
21:02 viklund and when you visit that you find 8?
21:03 lichtkind yes
21:04 lichtkind viklund: i think i grok now the unread closed are counted but only in closed
21:05 lichtkind yes i opened a closed ticket and have now only 20 unread
21:27 lichtkind filetest ops ready on english side
21:28 lichtkind madness 35 entry on char C allone
21:28 viklund ;)
21:30 lichtkind and there are 110 different operator symbols or meanings for them
21:30 lichtkind but i think i now got most of them :)
21:32 lichtkind perl 6 : dont go there without a map :)
21:32 viklund haha
21:34 lichtkind perl 6: what cs prof are to afraid to talk about
21:35 lichtkind true the first was better
21:37 lichtkind why is Script start time minus file modification time, in days positive ?
21:40 PerlJam lichtkind: because the script was started after it was last modified?
21:41 lichtkind PerlJam: so it could be nagytive?
21:42 lichtkind negative
21:42 PerlJam it could.
21:43 lichtkind PerlJam: thank you very much, you helped improve p6 docs :)
21:46 lichtkind 8 ops left
21:53 lichtkind 1 left :)
21:57 lichtkind pipes are async?
22:01 lichtkind done + explanation item
22:03 lichtkind hm masak left
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