Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2009-06-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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09:51 viklund masak: have you checked out mom?
09:51 masak just saw the email about it.
09:51 viklund (i'm not particularly happy with it, but it does the job)
09:52 masak I should say that I'm having a different intuition about solving this problem (I'd be happy with not having an intermediate DOM-like format and just solving everything with text), but I'm willing to try this path and see where it leads.
09:52 masak seems this is something that can lead to quite powerful plugins.
09:53 viklund masak: yes, it could, and as mentioned, toc will be a simple plugin
09:53 masak yes.
09:53 viklund it will increase the time to render a page quite a lot though
09:53 viklund luckily we have caching
09:55 viklund and maybe we can plug grampa into it somehow as well ;)
09:55 viklund making it more general
09:55 masak I had the same thought.
09:56 masak grampa will likely end up being a general XPath search tool for hierarchical structures (maybe in its separate project) plus an adapter for traversing Matchers.
09:56 masak er, Matches.
09:57 viklund yes
10:11 masak we should have november commits reported on the channel.
10:12 viklund yes, hook up dalek?
10:12 viklund (or is it delek)
10:12 masak it's dalek. who runs it?
10:13 viklund no idea, is it in the pugs repo?
10:14 masak don't think so.
10:17 viklund moritz_++ might know
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12:15 moritz_ ehlo november-folks
12:15 moritz_ I somehow forgot about that channel after my last reboot
12:16 masak not acceptable. :) here's where all the secondary action is. :P
12:17 moritz_ action = integral langrange-function dt
12:18 moritz_ (I know, physicists are just sick)
12:18 * sri_kraih_ throws a shoe at moritz_
12:19 * moritz_ tunes is surface to have a reflection coefficient of 1
13:06 masak sri_kraih_: I'd like to discuss more about scaffolding at some point.
13:06 sri_kraih_ masak: i don't like scaffolding much
13:06 masak that's a good start for a discussion.
13:07 masak I know next to nothing about them, but I've heard obra_ saying he doesn't like 'em either.
13:07 sri_kraih_ the only actual useful implementation i have ever seen was the django admin interface
13:07 masak and why is that one useful, unlike all the others?
13:07 sri_kraih_ the problem is they are never enough and hard to extend
13:07 masak ok.
13:08 sri_kraih_ because it's mostly independent from your app, and you can use it as a web interface to your database, edit raw tables and stuff
13:08 masak sounds nice.
13:08 sri_kraih_ it's like phpmyadmin
13:08 masak I'll have to have a good look at Django.
13:09 masak aha.
13:09 sri_kraih_ but when you start your real app with scaffolding you tend to build your app around that
13:09 sri_kraih_ which nealry always ends up in bad code
13:09 sri_kraih_ and wasted time
13:09 masak ok.
13:09 masak what are the alternatives?
13:10 sri_kraih_ not using scaffolding or having it separate like django
13:11 masak hm. defined 'separate'.
13:11 masak s/defined/define/
13:11 sri_kraih_ a miniapp in your webapp
13:12 sri_kraih_ it exists right next to your real app
13:12 sri_kraih_ /admin/
13:12 masak ah, ok.
13:12 masak yes, that does sounds cleaner and more extensible.
13:13 sri_kraih_ it's not bad
13:13 masak how did Merb do it? you mentioned that it didn't have scaffolding.
13:13 sri_kraih_ they don't do scaffolding mostly
13:14 sri_kraih_ thing about scaffolding and admin interfaces is that you are bound to a single ORM
13:14 sri_kraih_ it's a huge tradeoff
13:15 sri_kraih_ sure, you can do cool things like auto generated REST apis to your tables, but you have to let your framework make choices like which ORM to use
13:15 masak good to know.
13:16 masak right now, we don't even have a working database connection in Perl 6, but it's good to think ahead. :)
13:16 sri_kraih_ :)
13:16 masak November still uses a file backend.
13:16 * sri_kraih_ would like to get Mojo::Transaction ported to Perl6
13:17 masak sri_kraih_: what are you blocking on?
13:17 sri_kraih_ last time i checked rakudo didn't have working sockets
13:19 masak it does have sockets.
13:19 moritz_ it has basic sockets now.
13:19 sri_kraih_ good to know
13:19 masak but I don't know what you mean by 'working' :)
13:19 sri_kraih_ xD
13:20 * sri_kraih_ remembers the netcat hack for the first perl6 web server
13:20 masak mberends++ and I did the bare minimum to get server-side sockets working during the post-NPW hackathon.
13:20 masak sri_kraih_: that hack is now replaced by Rakudo sockets.
13:21 sri_kraih_ select() working?
13:22 sri_kraih_ actually there is not that much i need to port
13:22 sri_kraih_ http://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/9c7e1509d​3f3468711f61762b8233f7b49b6b22b/Makefile.PL
13:22 zarah sri_kraih_'s link is also http://tinyurl.com/nby2c5
13:23 sri_kraih_ if apis similar to those core modules are available i can get everything from http1.1 client/server, fastcgi, template engine to routes working
13:23 masak sri_kraih_: have a look for yourself at what's implemented: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/d95def257bf3c​9279906d9f7c4cca28363b1119a/src/setting/IO/Socket
13:23 zarah masak's link is also http://tinyurl.com/n4wclq
13:24 masak so essentially open, bind, listen and accept.
13:26 sri_kraih_ thats enough if it's working with select
13:26 masak I don't understand what that means.
13:27 sri_kraih_ dunno if and how the select syscall is implemented currently
13:28 sri_kraih_ doesn't look like theres a fancy IO::Select module yet
13:28 masak if it's at all possible, it would probably be PIR code.
13:29 masak you can inline PIR into Perl 6 code. there are plenty of examples in the Rakudo setting.
13:46 * masak reads up on XPath 1.0
13:46 masak one of my favourite standards of all time.
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