Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #november-wiki, 2010-06-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
02:28 p6eval joined #november-wiki
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20:13 masak hi :)
20:13 pmichaud joined #november-wiki
20:13 Tene hi
20:13 zarah hi Tene
20:13 masak so, last bit of Web.pm.
20:13 * pmichaud lurks.
20:13 masak zarah: oh, you're here, too :)
20:13 zarah masak: eh... wha'?
20:14 masak zarah: you're a smart girl.
20:14 zarah masak: Isn't it time you married me? Over.
20:14 * masak pats zarah on the metallic head
20:14 masak anyway.
20:14 jnthn joined #november-wiki
20:15 masak three things on the agenda: (a) simple templater (b) three webapps (c) tutorial.
20:16 masak I'll be happy to do (c) on my own, since I started it already and have it more or less laid out in my mind.
20:16 masak Tene: I think you'd like to do (a). I know I would. maybe I can get a kick out of watching you make the templater. :)
20:17 masak Tene: I'm thinking something exceedingly simple, whipup-able in 30 minutes or so. something very much like the way JSP works; it'd turn mostly-HTML into mostly-Perl 6.
20:17 * masak mocks up a cute example of what he means
20:20 masak "<ol><% for @reasons -> $reason { %><li><%= $reason %></li><% } %>" ----> "<ol><li>It's small</li><li>It has few moving parts</li><li>The grant proposal says we should have one</li></ol>"
20:20 Tene sorry, was AFK laptop crashed.
20:20 masak that's OK, I'm still typing.
20:21 masak the (b) one is the one I fear the most, and I don't really have a good plan of action yet. I think we might have to deviate a bit from the letter of the grant proposal to reach that one. (but probably live up to the spirit of it)
20:21 masak specifically, converting November to Web.pm might still be too much work. I haven't tried, but that is my suspicion.
20:22 masak might be better to put together small-but-useful apps that showcase Web.pm somehow.
20:22 Tene That's what I'd prefer
20:22 jnthn Does there need to be three web apps, or do you (plural) personally need to write three web apps? :-)
20:22 masak converting November is still a long-term goal, but perhaps not a Web.pm grant one.
20:22 * jnthn was planning on trying to put on together as a kinda demo thingy for his "yes you can do stuff in Rakudo *" talks this month
20:22 masak jnthn: three apps are to be written as part of the grant.
20:22 jnthn OK.
20:23 masak jnthn: cool.
20:23 jnthn I'll help by filing bug reports. ;-)
20:23 masak much appreciated.
20:23 masak the idea behind 'three apps', if I recall correctly, was to give the API a whirl.
20:23 masak er, APIs.
20:24 Tene something like, pastebin, simple blog or simple forum, and November
20:24 jnthn BTW, could (b) and (c) be somewhat merged in that at least one of the apps you build and write a tutorial about "how to make it" but then peoiple have a finsihed thing as a reference?
20:24 jnthn ffs...can I have a webapp that types stuff correctly for me too...
20:24 Tene I like that.
20:25 masak Tene: I could give converting November a serious try. but I'm still not sure it'll lead anywhere within a sensible amount of time.
20:25 Tene nodnod
20:26 masak jnthn: interesting idea.
20:26 Tene I think the catalyst docs used a book database example.
20:26 masak by the way, the Druid web app could count as one app already.
20:26 masak I think I intended for it to do that.
20:26 masak and I sorta-kinda started on a database webapp example. it's in the old blog posts somewhere.
20:26 Tene a simple CRUD app
20:26 masak mine wasn't that advanced :)
20:26 Tene masak: how is squirrel these days?
20:27 Tene squerl?
20:27 masak not moving much, just like the rest of Web.pm.
20:27 masak but it's definitely usable.
20:27 masak just not ready.
20:27 Tene did that get killed by the hll interop stuff too, like other stuff I worked on?
20:27 Tene ah
20:28 * masak checks the Squerl tests
20:28 masak I still believe a lot in Squerl. I haven't marketed it nearly enough.
20:29 masak it's a bit of an accident that it ended up under the Web.pm umbrella. but we need something like Squerl as a backend for the frontend stuff in Web.pm.
20:29 Tene You okay with using it for the examples?
20:30 masak define 'it'.
20:30 Tene squerl
20:30 masak Squerl isn't a web app.
20:30 Tene I'll try again:
20:30 masak it could be used in one, though.
20:30 masak I'd be fine with that.
20:30 Tene When writing web apps, should I use squerl for data persistence?
20:31 Tene 'k
20:31 masak up to you. I'd be happy if you found it suitable for your needs, or easily extendable.
20:31 Tene 'k
20:31 masak Tene: check out http://github.com/masak/web/blo​b/master/t/squerl/02-dataset.t for an indication of its capabilities.
20:31 zarah masak's link is also http://tinyurl.com/2v28vc2
20:32 Tene Argh.  Still grumpy over the hll library stuff.  I need to get over that.  Not worth holding on to grumpiness like that.
20:32 masak I think I missed that part.
20:33 masak I don't know if that has affected Squerl.
20:33 masak I know it did use one of your projects.
20:33 Tene Tried running squerl against recent rakudo?
20:33 Tene one of my projects?
20:33 Tene I don't remember having relevant projects.
20:34 masak some sql binding.
20:34 Tene ah
20:34 masak Tene: I don't think we should try running against Rakudo master within the scope of the grant. that's not being fair to ourselves.
20:34 Tene 'k
20:34 masak the grant was started in the alpha branch of Rakudo. we can upgrade it to master afterwards.
20:35 masak ah; SQLite3.
20:35 masak in other words, if the Parrot hll disasters occurred after the January release of Rakudo, we should be fine.
20:36 masak but we might encounter problems as soon as we try to upgrade to Rakudo master.
20:37 masak my network connection is wobbly; you have been warned.
20:45 Tene Okay, so you want me to make a mason/jsp/asp/php/whatever-style templating thing?
20:45 Tene that sounds reasonable.
20:46 masak yes, please. did my example make sense?
20:46 Tene yes.
20:46 masak it should be mosly a matter of concatenation and eval.
20:46 Tene I expect I could hack something reasonable out.
20:47 masak the exact syntax was just an example, by the way. if you find better alternatives along the way, prefer those.
20:47 Tene as written, it gets awkward.
20:48 Tene would you object to requiring: say $reason;
20:48 Tene ?
20:48 masak that's why I put a = in <%= $reason %>
20:48 masak I've seen that somewhere.
20:48 Tene Hmm.
20:49 masak but it's a small piece of sugar. explicit 'say' works, too.
20:49 Tene 'cos then I could just invert it, and replace %><li><% with print q{<li>}
20:49 Tene ;)
20:49 Tene anyway, there are a couple of options.
20:50 masak 'just invert' sounds like that kind of transformation I had in mind.
20:50 masak a simple templater for simple people with simple needs.
20:51 Tene more like... set the match object as a contextual, and replace quoted hunks with calls to a function that indexes into the contextual match object.
20:51 Tene or something
20:52 Tene replace each hunk with a call using an identifier that represents its indexes into the match object.
20:53 masak will that cope with the fact that the opening brace of the for loop is in a different hunk than the closing brace?
20:54 Tene s/quoted hunk/unquoted hunk/ and try reading again
20:55 Tene replace the setting/template/non-perl parts
20:55 masak yeah, that might work.
20:55 masak aye.
20:56 masak give it a shot. I'll have a look at the tutorial, and try to absorb what people said here about web apps.
20:56 Tene I don't have anything to do at work right now, lemme try it.
20:56 masak it would indeed be fun to use Squerl in one of them. doesn't have to be too elaborate.
20:57 masak \o/
20:57 Tene Let me see what version of rakudo fedora has.
20:57 Tene [sweeks@sweeks-laptop ~]$ perl6 -v
20:57 Tene This compiler is built with the Parrot Compiler Toolkit, parrot version 2.4.0.
20:57 Tene is that right?
20:57 Tene [sweeks@sweeks-laptop ~]$ perl6 --help
20:57 Tene perl6 This compiler is based on PCT::HLLCompiler.
20:58 masak that sounds too new.
20:58 masak you need January 2010.
20:58 Tene Oh.  Hmm.
20:59 Tene grumble.
21:00 Tene I'll just try running web tests and see what happens.
21:00 Tene if it fails, it's wrong.
21:00 masak with a recent Rakudo? you won't get far.
21:00 Tene hence, I'll know it's the wrong rakudo.
21:01 masak I don't think you realize the scope of the changes we're talking about here.
21:01 masak Rakudo has basically gotten a new Rakudo.
21:01 masak Parrot 2.4.0 is May.
21:02 masak hm. I'll be heading offline soon. tomorrow I'll be on a bus for 7 hours. plenty of time to dig into various aspects of Web.pm.
21:03 masak my weekend will probably consist of intermittent coding too. and another bus journey.
21:03 Tene where you headed?
21:03 masak just home to my parents.
21:05 masak I hope we'll meet like this at least once or twice more before Sunday night. if not, at least this meeting was good enough to give us direction and allow us to work independently.
21:08 Tene I'll be busy-ish.
21:09 masak even so; if you commit a templater to the web repo, I might be able to run with it.
21:09 masak also, there's always asynchronous conversation. phenny, gist, commit messages etc.
21:09 masak zarah: you're a smart girl. smarter than phenny, even.
21:09 zarah masak: So smart I'm looking for another job. Over.
21:10 masak o.O
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