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| 21:10 |
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| 21:48 |
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Topic for #onionsketch is now The State of the Onion | http://markmail.org/message/e6w4t2umxsnqv6op |
| 21:55 |
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Abigail joined #onionsketch |
| 22:00 |
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rjbs |
Okay! Shall we begin? I don't expect too much trouble today, as we're just starting things off. |
| 22:01 |
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Corion |
Yeah, why not |
| 22:01 |
|
Abigail |
Ok |
| 22:02 |
|
rjbs |
Great. So, I posted our mini-agenda to p5p, and there's a link in the topic. First up: old business. |
| 22:02 |
|
rjbs |
Well, this is our first meeting. So no real old business. And that's just fine with me. |
| 22:03 |
|
rjbs |
I don't think there are any open security issues to discuss right now... |
| 22:03 |
|
Corion |
I'm unaware of any |
| 22:03 |
|
rjbs |
I think you've both seen the kerfuffle on p5p about our longstanding :utf8 layer problems. |
| 22:03 |
|
Corion |
Yep |
| 22:03 |
|
Abigail |
Yes |
| 22:04 |
|
rjbs |
Leon T. is going to be pushing up some of his related work soon, and I'm going to make a "[META]" ticket to collect related issues. |
| 22:04 |
|
rjbs |
I still don't expect us to land a fix before 5.16.0, but since people are in motion, hopefully they can be directed toward those two things to offer their assistance. |
| 22:04 |
|
* Abigail |
nods. |
| 22:05 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: 5.15.8 seemed to go pretty smoothly from where I sat watching. |
| 22:05 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: Any snags worth relating? |
| 22:05 |
|
Corion |
Yep - and the snags I hit are mostly patched. |
| 22:05 |
|
rjbs |
What snags remain? |
| 22:05 |
|
Corion |
There is one where I think more patching is needed, but I haven't understood the program yet. |
| 22:06 |
|
Corion |
The corelist generator currently has "use Algorithm::Diff" in it, which is used for the "check" case |
| 22:06 |
|
Corion |
That case seems to be supposed to be run with an outside Perl |
| 22:06 |
|
Corion |
while the recommended usage from the releng guide is to run it with the soon-to-be Perl |
| 22:06 |
|
Corion |
(and the "generate" case, not the "check" case) |
| 22:06 |
|
Corion |
At least, that's the impression I got from a) the documentation b) rafl's use case |
| 22:07 |
|
Abigail |
Is it a problem if something needs to be run with an outside Perl? |
| 22:07 |
|
Corion |
But before patching, I want to look at the code again, and think about this. I accidentially reverted some of rafls changes, not understanding why he had made them. |
| 22:07 |
|
rjbs |
I think it's a-ok for stuff in ./Porting to need an outside perl -- but if the documentation shows using fresh-built ./perl, we'll definitely want to sort that out. |
| 22:08 |
|
Corion |
Abigail: I think that the "generate" use case creates bad data if it's not run with the soon-to-be Perl, because it takes the last two entries in Module::CoreList |
| 22:08 |
|
Corion |
So if you run it with an outside Perl, it picks up different data. |
| 22:08 |
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Abigail |
Ah, ok, I understand. |
| 22:08 |
|
Corion |
I changed "require Algorithm::Diff" to "require '/outside/perl/lib/Algorithm/Diff.pm' |
| 22:08 |
|
Corion |
just to get the program to compile/run |
| 22:09 |
|
Corion |
I think the fix will be to move the "require" line downwards to where it is actually needed. But before I do that, I want to verify my understanding |
| 22:09 |
|
Corion |
But I think that's it. The other cases I've already patched in the documentation (github access, and something else which I forgot) |
| 22:09 |
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rjbs |
Cool. This program is safe to run all the time, so hopefully you can bash on it until it is clear, and then make a fix. :-) |
| 22:10 |
|
Corion |
I'm not yet clear as to what output(s) it is supposed to produce - rafls use case is different from "mine" |
| 22:10 |
|
Corion |
Abigail: If I make any changes, I'll tell you, as you're the next one to really need that program :) |
| 22:10 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: When you make that change, drop me an email. Otherwise, I'll check in with you before my next meeting with Abigail, and maybe have a go at it myself. |
| 22:10 |
|
rjbs |
Great. |
| 22:11 |
|
Corion |
But yes, the release manager guide seems fairly good, as it took me six hours of mostly waiting to produce a new (point) release of Perl. |
| 22:11 |
|
rjbs |
Worst case, I don't think it should be too tough to do even if the script becomes horribly broken. It will also help that so few things will change version between .8 and .9! |
| 22:12 |
|
rjbs |
Yeah. |
| 22:12 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: Any other post-5.15.8-release notes? |
| 22:12 |
|
Abigail |
Yeah, I went through the guide a few times, and none of it seemed to be confusing. |
| 22:12 |
|
Corion |
Yes - proof-read the release mail before starting the work |
| 22:13 |
|
Corion |
I had a malformatted link in the mail going out to p5p, but was too tired to proof-read the mail |
| 22:13 |
|
rjbs |
:) I think I did the same thing myself, once. |
| 22:13 |
|
rjbs |
So I agree! :) |
| 22:13 |
|
Corion |
(but I was glad I had prewritten the mail already, as I'd have been too tired to paste the mail together) |
| 22:13 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: The RMG has gotten better and better, you're lucky! |
| 22:13 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: Speaking of which: this is your first release, right? |
| 22:14 |
|
Abigail |
That's why I waited so long to step in ;-) |
| 22:14 |
|
Abigail |
Rjbs: yes |
| 22:14 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: ...but I see you've got commit access, right? You've used it recently enough to know your keys is still good ?:) |
| 22:15 |
|
Abigail |
I have commit access. And I know Dennis. |
| 22:15 |
|
rjbs |
Aha, of course. Excellent. |
| 22:15 |
|
Corion |
Oh - one more thing - the one thing we backed out, Compress::Raw::Zlib had a new upstream (zlib) release, so it should be better now. But I think it would be preferrable if it landed at least two weeks before freeze to give the smokers a better run. |
| 22:15 |
|
Abigail |
I also contacted Andreas and Graham to make sure I have the rights to upload a release. |
| 22:16 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: Oh, great, that was my next question |
| 22:16 |
|
Abigail |
And they both have replied; I should have that access. |
| 22:16 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: I asked PMQS whether he'd consider making a release with /just/ the warning fix, to keep changes to a minimum... |
| 22:17 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: ...but good to know. I'll see if we can't get that family of libs updated in a smoke-me branch ASAP. |
| 22:18 |
|
Corion |
rjbs: That would be good for the core, yes - even if it doesn't fit in with the CPAN history, but having 2.0481 with only the warnings fixes would be good for 5.14.x |
| 22:18 |
|
rjbs |
One other "known issue" right now worth mentioning is "the Carp dot." |
| 22:19 |
|
rjbs |
Steffen began a new run of smoking that, yesterday or the day before. I don't think have any good actions to take beyond "keep an eye on the list and assist people with patches." |
| 22:19 |
|
Corion |
Well - serves people right to use tight regular expressions on Perls error/warning messages. Maybe one day we hand out unique numbers for every string. |
| 22:19 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: ...but I don't expect you to have to do any of that work. But it's something we'll potentially see reported to the list. |
| 22:20 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: I sympathize with both sides of the problem. :( |
| 22:20 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: As for things I *do* hope you will be doing... :) |
| 22:20 |
|
Corion |
Me too - I've relaxed lots of my tests, and luckily I don't have any modules that close to the toolchain |
| 22:20 |
|
Corion |
(except parent.pm , but I'm highly reluctant to make changes there :) ) |
| 22:21 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: Keep an eye on the smoke reports? Right now, things look about like ususal, but with a bit more black smoke from Win32 than usual, mostly (I think!) due to known problems. |
| 22:21 |
|
rjbs |
So I should mention the other known problems, there: Pod-Html's path normalization. Craig seemed to have beaten it into submission, but it's acting strangely on at least one Win32 smoker, still. |
| 22:21 |
|
rjbs |
...and there's a problem with fork emulation on Win32 that we're still not sure what to do with. |
| 22:22 |
|
Abigail |
Yeah, I'm a bit behind on p5p, but except for our Alar game, my weekend, including the Friday night, is free. I should be "current" soon. |
| 22:22 |
|
rjbs |
Great. Hopefully you can identify which threads you can ignore for the time being early on. :-) |
| 22:22 |
|
rjbs |
Or maybe you're a faster reader than I am and you can enjoy every last paragraph. |
| 22:23 |
|
Abigail |
I'll try. |
| 22:24 |
|
rjbs |
re: other bugs that come up |
| 22:24 |
|
Abigail |
But I expect to have a good idea before the weekend is finished. And I'll keep close tabs on p5p afterwards. |
| 22:24 |
|
rjbs |
I think we're going to get two kinds of bugs: |
| 22:24 |
|
rjbs |
* bugs that are show stoppers |
| 22:24 |
|
rjbs |
* bugs that have to wait |
| 22:25 |
|
rjbs |
I'd rather not see much misc. bug fixing in blead unless it's directly toward blockers or black smoke (which is a blocker). |
| 22:25 |
|
Abigail |
Everything else is for 5.17.1? |
| 22:25 |
|
rjbs |
If you see a ticket land that you think is a blocker, point me at it? It turns out that this month has become *really* busy, and I'd hate to miss a ticket. |
| 22:26 |
|
* Abigail |
nods. |
| 22:26 |
|
rjbs |
Yeah, I think this is the time to remind all the committers that they can put their bugfixes in topic branches, and we can rebase them once maint-5.16 is branched. |
| 22:26 |
|
rjbs |
(and if they want to keep using topic branches more extensively after 5.17.0 begins, that's great, too) |
| 22:27 |
|
Corion |
Oh - sorry - talking of tickets - the release manager guide does not mention how to access http://rt.perl.org and where to get the credentials |
| 22:27 |
|
rjbs |
I don't want to kill any forward motion, but it doesn't all need to happen in blead. |
| 22:27 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: That's a really good point. |
| 22:27 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: I've put "update the RMG for rt.perl.org access" on my todo from this meeting. |
| 22:27 |
|
Corion |
I didn't need it as DaveM closed my perlbug test-ticket, but ... |
| 22:28 |
|
rjbs |
I don't think anyone here has any code / features in need of review, so I think we can skip that item. |
| 22:28 |
|
rjbs |
I think that's all I have, of substance. |
| 22:28 |
|
Abigail |
Jesse gave me right on rt.perl.org to close tickets, but he did that in 2010, and I don't think I ever tried. |
| 22:28 |
|
Corion |
I have no other questions/remarks |
| 22:28 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: I'd appreciate if you'd have at least a brief look at the open blockers sometime in the next 2 weeks; they're all hung off of... |
| 22:29 |
|
rjbs |
5.16.0 blockers: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publi[…]lay.html?id=94978 |
| 22:29 |
|
rjbs |
I don't expect you to go fix them (but hey, if you want to...) but maybe you will have a flash of insight. Also, there are only about ten. |
| 22:29 |
|
Abigail |
Will do this weekend. |
| 22:30 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: I'll check the RT permissions status. I'm pretty sure Jesse would get it right, though. :) |
| 22:30 |
|
Abigail |
;-) |
| 22:30 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: Anything else I can tell you or do for you to make your duty period as enjoyable as possible? |
| 22:31 |
|
Abigail |
I cannot think of anything right away, but I know how to reach you when I hit a wall. |
| 22:31 |
|
rjbs |
Indeed! |
| 22:32 |
|
rjbs |
Okay. I have our pre-release follow-up scheduled for two weeks from today. That's March 15th. |
| 22:32 |
|
Abigail |
My rought plans for the next weeks: |
| 22:32 |
|
rjbs |
Same time (for you, Abigail), one hour earlier for me. |
| 22:33 |
|
Abigail |
This weekend, catch up on p5p. Go to the list of blockers. Get an idea of which issues need to be solved before the release, and which ones can be postponed. Write a message to p5p. |
| 22:33 |
|
Abigail |
Next week: keep monitoring p5p closely, specially the smokes. |
| 22:34 |
|
Abigail |
Weekend of 10/11: go through all the motions mentioned in the RMG and produce a release, omitting any uploads or pushes. |
| 22:35 |
|
Abigail |
And then do the real thing on the 20th. |
| 22:35 |
|
rjbs |
Sounds excellent. And if you hit problems on the 10/11th, you'll have plenty of time, including our meeting on the 15th, to see it sorted out. |
| 22:36 |
|
rjbs |
So: hopefully no last minute drama. |
| 22:36 |
|
rjbs |
Okay, and my to-dos from this meeting are: |
| 22:36 |
|
rjbs |
- zlib updates in smoke-me branch |
| 22:36 |
|
rjbs |
- meta ticket for utf-8 bugs |
| 22:36 |
|
rjbs |
- update the RMG for rt.perl.org access |
| 22:37 |
|
Abigail |
I've changed my work schedule so that I don't have to go to the office on the 20th; I can quit doing $WORK stuff around 16.00, giving me 8 hours to do the real release. (Or 9, and release just before midnight GMT) |
| 22:37 |
|
rjbs |
Excellent. |
| 22:37 |
|
rjbs |
In my experience, the most horrible parts were perldelta and corelist updates. Both have apparently been greatly improved since I last did a release. |
| 22:37 |
|
rjbs |
So I hope you will enjoy smooth sailing. |
| 22:37 |
|
rjbs |
s/most/only/ |
| 22:38 |
|
Abigail |
I spend a few hours earlier this week thinking up an epigraph. I've a short list of 3 possibilities. |
| 22:38 |
|
rjbs |
Yeah, that's the other hard part. :) |
| 22:38 |
|
Corion |
:) |
| 22:38 |
|
Abigail |
At one moment, I thought "maybe I just do 12 releases, so I don't have to choose". |
| 22:39 |
|
rjbs |
Well, I will be happy to schedule you for two more dev releases so you can get all three from that list out there. |
| 22:39 |
|
rjbs |
(The July slot is open, in fact.) |
| 22:39 |
|
rjbs |
but maybe I'll save asking you about that until 5.15.9 is behind you |
| 22:40 |
|
Abigail |
July would not work for 2 of the 3 possibilities. |
| 22:40 |
|
rjbs |
July 20 is OSCON, anwyay |
| 22:40 |
|
Abigail |
Right. And I should be there. |
| 22:40 |
|
rjbs |
so who wants to spend OSCON time releasing perl instead of enjoying Portland? |
| 22:41 |
|
Corion |
Maybe somebody not at OSCON :) |
| 22:41 |
|
rjbs |
Okay. I think we've covered everything on my list. If there's nothing else, I will bang my pretend gavel and send us all on our way. |
| 22:41 |
|
Corion |
*ding* |
| 22:41 |
|
Abigail |
Ok, I'm done. |
| 22:41 |
|
Abigail |
Thanks. |
| 22:41 |
|
Corion |
Thanks! |
| 22:41 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: If you want to do July, that can be arranged. ;) |
| 22:42 |
|
rjbs |
Abigail: Thanks very much for your time! |
| 22:42 |
|
rjbs |
Corion: ...and for yours! |
| 22:42 |
|
rjbs |
See at least one of you again, here, in 2wk. |
| 22:42 |
|
Corion |
Oh - I'm doing some meetup in August, I don't think I'll have the mind for July :) |
| 22:42 |
|
Abigail |
Yeah, and I'll talk to you on Saturday. |
| 22:43 |
|
rjbs |
Yup! Time to go be social with the family. Tschuß! |
| 22:43 |
|
Corion |
Bye |
| 22:43 |
|
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Corion left #onionsketch |
