Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #onionsketch, 2013-01-04

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Time Nick Message
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18:55 ether what is this channel?
18:59 Topic for #onionsketch is now The State of the Onion | 5.17.8 on January 20
18:59 arc rjbs: hi
18:59 rjbs arc: Hello and good afternoon!
18:59 rjbs autarch (Dave Rolsky, of 5.17.7 fame) can't be with us today as he's on his way to the Grand Canyon.
18:59 arc rjbs: good evening to you, sir! :-)
19:00 arc so, do we have an agenda?
19:00 rjbs (I try to have the previous release's RM here for the early meeting, and next month's for the next.)
19:00 rjbs We have "the usual agenda," which I am going to get better at publishing.  I realized I also didn't publish the date of this meeting, other than under that "tigers" sign, so I'm going to make myself a better routine for this from now on.
19:01 rjbs That said, the usual agenda is quite simple and short, and easy to just go through rather than me "publish" now.
19:01 rjbs There is no old business.  Hooray!
19:01 rjbs I know you have been set up with a commit bit, and I am nearly certain that I've seen you use it.  Have you used it?
19:02 arc i haven't used it for pushing commits, but i have confirmed that i can clone from perl5.git.perl.org over ssh, which i assume is equivalent
19:02 rjbs It is very nearly equivalent.  I do not expect one to happen without the other.
19:02 arc good
19:03 arc there are three other items on the "prerequisites" part of the RMG that i believe are still outstanding
19:04 arc 1. pumpkin status for my pause account (ARC)
19:04 arc 2. search.cpan.org pumpkin status
19:04 arc 3. rt.perl.org update access
19:04 rjbs I will contact the appropriate people today.
19:04 arc thanks
19:05 rjbs The process for uploading, once those are done, is almost entirely like doing any other release, except you have to tick an extra ticky box.
19:05 rjbs I believe the RMG notes, and I will re-emphasize:  it's a good idea to upload the file to someplace reliable, then tell PAUSE to fetch it.
19:06 rjbs In the past, I have had issues with a direct upload from "home" to PAUSE terminating, leaving a broken file on PAUSE, etc.
19:06 arc … which would clearly cause untoward pain
19:07 rjbs This discussion falls under "release prep" in my stock agenda.  You have any questions about the rest of that part of the process?
19:07 arc just one question
19:08 arc one item reads "monitor smoke tests for failures"
19:08 arc there seems to be an awful lot of red on http://perl5.test-smoke.org/ and http://doc.procura.nl/smoke/index.html right now
19:08 arc is that usual for this stage in a blead dev cycle?
19:08 rjbs Yes, I was just coming to that! :-)
19:08 arc a-ha!
19:08 rjbs "Known Issues" :-)
19:09 rjbs I don't know what's up with all the read.  I have not yet investigated.
19:09 rjbs I try to keep on top of smoke reports, but have been failing of late.
19:09 arc i had a brief look at one of them, but haven't yet been able to reproduce the failure
19:10 rjbs My suggestion is to scan over a few, see if the answer is obvious ("oh, Tony broke his box") and if not, mail perl5-porters to ask for eyes.
19:10 arc ok
19:10 rjbs You don't need to get all the smoke cleared up.  As long as blead is "mostly working" a release is good.
19:10 rjbs but as we're getting closer to 5.18.0, we'll want things to start chilling out
19:10 arc the bit that concerns me is how many of the linux smokes are red — i think of linux as being a fairly well tested platform for perl
19:11 rjbs (looking at something)
19:13 rjbs Most of the fails I see at first glance are test plan errors in FileCache.
19:13 rjbs I *think* this just came up on list.
19:13 rjbs At least, some test count errors did.
19:13 arc yes — that's the one i've looked at briefly but as-yet unsuccessfully
19:13 rjbs So, we'll see whether it can be root caused.  If not, and if it keeps happening, we can make a RT ticket.
19:14 rjbs (I need to make sure we have a 'blocks 5.18.0' ticket! I think we do.  Adding TODO item.)
19:14 rjbs We do, https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=114502
19:15 rjbs I don't know of any other major new issues in 5.17.8.
19:15 rjbs There's the now-identified SAW_AMPERSAND-related slowdown.
19:15 arc this seems to have been a quiet month so far in blead
19:15 arc handily enough for a first-time release victim
19:15 rjbs That's not new, btu newly-identified.
19:15 rjbs :-)
19:15 arc holiday season, no doubt
19:15 rjbs yeah
19:15 arc plus this is the last month for contentious changes, right?
19:15 rjbs who wants to hack perl when there are presents to open?
19:15 arc well, quite
19:15 rjbs It is, I've been surprised at how few things got committed :)
19:16 rjbs Actually, there's some good chance that Karl W. will commit new regex character set operations.
19:16 arc ooh, is that expected for 5.18? shiny!
19:16 rjbs that code should be guarded by an experimental-class warning
19:16 rjbs It's expected as experimental, but yeah.
19:16 rjbs Or, hoped for :)
19:16 arc :-)
19:17 rjbs Rhapsody support will also be removed.  I doubt you will hear much complaining about that.
19:17 arc agreed
19:17 rjbs Apart from that, I think there isn't much likely to land that's totally weird.  I could be wrong, but we'll see.
19:18 rjbs Oh, I'm *hoping* to see some movement related to the 'once' warnings issue that was discovered.
19:18 rjbs I need to kick that anthill.
19:18 rjbs Did you see that?  Apparently 'once' warnings are only triggered in the main compilation unit.
19:18 rjbs And nobody has noticed since 1996 or so.
19:18 arc yeah, saw that on the list
19:18 arc — which is the baffling bit
19:18 rjbs I'm hoping we can find a fix that doesn't break the whole universe.
19:19 rjbs One thought is: we're already breaking a lot of stuff (with good reason) with 5.18 with hash randomization.  Maybe we'll hold onto that 'once' warnings patch until 5.19.0 to allow lots of time for CPAN cleanup, if needed.
19:19 rjbs …but we'll see.
19:19 rjbs At any rate, thus concludes my list of thoughts for "changes that will land."
19:19 rjbs Do you have technical fronts on which you think you need an assist, or code needing review, related to the release?
19:20 rjbs (seems unlikely at this point, but hey)
19:20 arc not that i can see at the moment
19:20 arc but i presume i can ask on the list or #p5p if any crop up
19:20 rjbs Absolutely!
19:20 rjbs Then we have almost reached the end of my agenda.
19:20 rjbs Sounds like you've been through the RMG.  All straightforward to you?
19:20 arc yes, i think so
19:21 rjbs You saw the kerfuffle, I wager, about the 5.17.7 tagging this month?
19:21 rjbs You understand the issue that caused it, and how to avoid a repeat?
19:21 arc i've been mentally characterising my responsibilities (beyond the mechanics of an actual release) as (1) dual-life modules (2) smoke (3) perldelta
19:21 arc yes, saw the kerfuffle
19:21 arc and groaned as soon as it came up on the list
19:22 arc i plan (and hope) not to repeat it :-)
19:22 rjbs Cool.  Dual-life module importing is something I often leave to others, as it gets done quite often without the RM doing anything.  Useful to keep a little eye on it, though.
19:22 arc seems that BinGOs++ has often taken care of it, historically
19:22 rjbs Yes, bless him!
19:23 rjbs I have our next meeting scheduled for January 18, at 14:00 America/New_York.
19:23 rjbs You, too?
19:23 arc works fine for me
19:23 arc then release on sunday 20th
19:24 rjbs Great.  I will see if we can get BinGOs here for the 18th's meeting, as he's got 5.17.9.
19:24 rjbs If not, it shouldn't be too bad.  We'll drink his share.
19:24 arc right you are :-)
19:25 rjbs That's it.  Sounds like you know what's up.  Anything else for me before we hang up?
19:25 arc nope, i think that covers it
19:25 rjbs Great!  Thanks for your time!  Talk to you in 14 days.
19:25 arc excellent, speak to you soon
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