Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #onionsketch, 2013-10-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
14:56 khw joined #onionsketch
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19:23 rjbs steveh: Hi
19:23 rjbs No, the problem is my alarm didn't go off!
19:23 steveh Hello!
19:23 rjbs I'm really sorry.  You still available?
19:24 steveh Yes, no problem :-)
19:24 rjbs "Alert: none"
19:24 rjbs PEB(iPhone)AC
19:24 rjbs One more second, then...
19:26 rjbs Okay!
19:27 rjbs So!  First off, sorry again.  It was on my calendar, I had it in mind, but I just figured I'd put my usual "annoying noise 15 min prior" alert on.
19:27 rjbs I didn't.
19:27 steveh Oops. Never mind, no harm done.
19:27 rjbs Secondly, thanks for picking up the October release on short notice.  Hopefully it will help make my weekend more productive!
19:27 steveh My pleasure.
19:27 rjbs and you are chugging away at making things simpler, which is great!
19:28 rjbs boy was I confused when the upstream=>undef came up
19:28 rjbs "I'm sure we already dealt with this!"
19:28 steveh Yes, Maintainers is quite a lot simplified already, and I'm still intending to remove the UPSTREAM field completely now
19:28 rjbs I will only say that May was before I started using Remember the Milk.  I wonder what other half-done tasks I left around.
19:28 rjbs Yes, that will be great.
19:28 rjbs as for s2p, I'd like to see it ejected, if we can, but it's not a big deal
19:29 steveh From the file or from perl entirely??
19:29 rjbs otherwise its status is clearly "core only"
19:30 rjbs Well, I don't think we need to list it in Maintainers.
19:30 rjbs but does it belong in the core?
19:30 rjbs My not-very-strong feeling is that it could live on the CPAN.
19:31 steveh Ok, I'll send a query out to p5p to gather more opinions, but will certainly ditch it from the file
19:31 rjbs Such a decision would, yeah, have to get talked about on p5p.
19:31 rjbs I don't expect much dissent, apart from "is it worth the work?"
19:31 rjbs but I have been wrong before
19:32 steveh I know the feeling!
19:32 steveh I also queried about removing the last few MAINTAINER fields. What are your thoughts on that?
19:32 rjbs One thought was "who is SMCCAM"?
19:33 rjbs It looks like someone who must've done quite a bunch of hard work, but must have been gone a while now, and is clearly(?) not the maintainer of (say) B-Deparse anymore.
19:33 rjbs In my mail in May I asked something like "What's the point?  Is it just to remind us who has a special interest in these files?"
19:34 rjbs I think that's all it is.  "Larry really cares about ./mad" for example.
19:34 rjbs So I don't think we need it.
19:34 steveh I certainly agree with the opinion that source control history provides more, and more useful info.
19:35 steveh I will go ahead and remove them in the next few days unless there is dissent.
19:35 rjbs and anything that would be controversial should be getting discussed on list
19:35 rjbs and either (a) someone should say "We should talk to Beth!" or (b) Beth should notice
19:35 rjbs and if neither of these happen, how relevant is Beth these days after all?
19:36 steveh Very true. She's clearly no longer the expert if she doesn't notice!
19:36 rjbs We have to be a bit careful about that, of course.  Every expert isn't reading every message.
19:36 rjbs but if the folks who *are* don't think to ask, it's an indicator
19:36 rjbs Anyway:  living culture over forgotten paperwork, says I.
19:37 rjbs I've been a bit behind on the list.  I only started to catch up last night because my programmatic overlord cronjob told me I was very overdue.
19:37 rjbs So:  did you have any more open issues that I haven't noticed?
19:38 steveh One  other thing that came up in this area was what to do about "IGNORABLE" files like Changes, README, MANIFEST, etc.
19:38 steveh I think the best plan seems to be to remove whatever isn't actually needed from cpan/
19:38 rjbs Oh yes, that.
19:38 rjbs Yeah, it seemed like there was a decent consensus there.
19:38 steveh but keep them all, and even add missing ones, to dist/ because some maintainers roll their releases from blead
19:39 rjbs Yes.
19:39 steveh Hopefully there'll be a net reduction in the tarball size
19:39 rjbs That would be nice!
19:39 steveh and we'll have some consistency regarding what is included and what is not
19:39 steveh I'll try to get that done before SUnday too then.
19:40 rjbs nice
19:40 rjbs Good luck.
19:40 steveh We also have some help for the modules part of perldelta on bug #116475
19:40 rjbs Yes!  I have that message flagged, and was glad to see *some* reply, since I have been lax.
19:40 rjbs I was very pleased to see it.
19:41 steveh I won't have time to go through it all before Sunday, but it looked pretty good at a quick skim
19:41 rjbs I think you're right to not want to just use Eventual, at least without first figuring out whether we can skip it.
19:41 rjbs I find it much easier to use for many things, but I'm not a good judge of that, since I wrote it.
19:41 rjbs I think we can probably get what we need from Simple.
19:41 steveh I hope so. If it's really difficult to do without Pod::Elemental then what is the best course of action?
19:42 rjbs Well, there are other things we require for Porting that are not in core, like Algo~::Diff.
19:42 steveh Do we consider adding Pod::ELemental to core, or just resort to hacking the file as plain text?
19:42 rjbs We definitely won't be adding it to core.
19:42 steveh Ok.
19:42 rjbs We'll either deal with the file as text or say "look, for releasing perl you need a working perl with X::Y::Z installed."
19:42 rjbs which we effectively do already, I believe
19:43 steveh Err, I don't have Algorithm::Diff installed...
19:43 rjbs Hm!
19:43 steveh Although I do have Cygwin tools containing diff, so there are still some requirements for non-core things!
19:44 rjbs It's part of Porting/corelist-perldelta.pl
19:44 rjbs but I see that it's only needed for some operations
19:44 rjbs Anyway: I am hoping we can move forward on #116475 and I will try to make sure we do.
19:45 rjbs I should at least send him a "Thanks I am excited!" message today.
19:45 steveh Ah, right. Which I don't use at the moment, but hopefully will by the time I do some future release :-)
19:45 rjbs So, exciting things this release: the prototype attribute
19:45 steveh Yes, I will follow it up after Sunday and see that it gets into the core, assuming it goes well.
19:46 steveh Yes. And postfix deref :-)
19:47 rjbs \o/
19:47 rjbs Yes, very excited for that, of course.
19:47 rjbs I think I'll be writing rjbs.pm to enable it and some other things for my oneliners.
19:47 rjbs and one-offs
19:47 rjbs so far, no smoke, but neither (I think) is likely to break old code
19:47 rjbs only to introduce new bugs we'll have to find through use
19:47 steveh Yep, the top of http://www.nntp.perl.org/gro​up/perl.daily-build.reports/ is still looking clean at the moment! Impressively so, in fact! :-)
19:48 rjbs Yes.  My Solaris build box was having a spot of trouble, but I probably won't be able to report more until Monday.
19:48 rjbs and is netbsd still reD?
19:48 rjbs Yes.  I don't know what's up with that.
19:49 rjbs Okay.  So, I know you know the drill.
19:49 rjbs I wonder whether you now have the longest streak of dev releases in a row!
19:50 steveh Perhaps so for recent times!
19:50 rjbs yes, in the new regime, I mean :)
19:50 rjbs do you have any other outstanding questions, concerns, or points to raise?
19:51 steveh One other thing: BinGOs started and aborted a Test-Simple upgrade to 0.99
19:51 rjbs rgs is the first one, going back, to beat you, during 5.9
19:51 rjbs Yes.
19:51 rjbs I have not investigated that yet.  The error was baffling.
19:52 rjbs Test-Simple failed its own tests when in core...
19:52 rjbs Do you recall the error?  I don't.
19:52 steveh I haven't looked at it myself, no. I was wondering if you were, or should I...
19:52 rjbs My all means, if you have the time and inclination, have a gander.
19:52 rjbs Otherwise, it's high on my list for next week.
19:53 steveh Ok, I'll see what I can make of it. It's obviously not essential for the release though.
19:53 rjbs (tonight, Macbeth; Fri-Sun, hacking with xdg; Monday, back to the grind)
19:53 rjbs 15:53 >BinGOs< rjbs: http://cpanidx.org/heh/core-test-simple-0.99.txt
19:53 rjbs BinGOs is the best!
19:53 rjbs So, the error there is that subtest descriptions are not being printed at the start of the test.
19:54 rjbs oh, and the cmp_ok error; that's the one that blew my mind
19:55 rjbs Anyway: if you want to have a go, great!  If not, I will.
19:55 rjbs I'm hoping that it's something weird needing to be done to import Test-Simple.
19:55 rjbs because the code is fine, afaict
19:56 steveh Hmm, very odd. I will indeed have a look. If I don't crack it for the Sunday release, then you're welcome to take over next week :-)
19:56 rjbs "Great."
19:56 rjbs Any other business?
19:57 steveh No, I think we're on course otherwise.
19:57 rjbs Excellent.  Oh, I should've voiced BinGOs and made him say things, he's our man for next month.  Oops.
19:57 rjbs Well, clearly I'm all ascatter today.
19:58 rjbs Thanks very much for your time — not just the last hour, but the last three months!  Greatly appreciated, and you've made a lot of progress on cleaning up the process.
19:58 rjbs which is The Best
19:58 rjbs I'm going to get back to work and braindump before end-of-business.  If anything crazy comes up over the weekend, you know how to find me.
19:59 steveh Thanks. I look forward to putting my feet up for bit after Sunday :-) Not for too long, though, I hope :-)
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