Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openam, 2017-04-04

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Time Nick Message
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06:29 KermitTheFragger aldaris: g' morning! Will there be some "official" announcement as to what the future of the community edition holds?
06:30 KermitTheFragger a lot of is writing on the wall but it would be nice to know what the real intentions are
06:36 aldaris sadly, not my paygrade kind of thing, I don't know
06:44 KermitTheFragger ok no sweat, not really expecting any announcement but thought: hey, who knows ;-)
06:44 aldaris one can only hope, right
06:55 asyd morning folks
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07:42 jamiebowen Morning folks.
07:43 jamiebowen Just read yesterday's logs and wanted to answer a few questions & comment on a couple of points. - But, I don't have all the answers for you.
07:46 jamiebowen Firstly, ForgeRock will not try to 'lead' the community edition project. Ideally a community would form and lead the project. Pull requests will be accepted, but hopefully, we can find some community members to help run the project too.
07:47 jamiebowen I don't think we really know how/if a community will take off, but there is more of a chance than ever that this can happen, because in the past FR was moving so fast and with such firm direction that contributing was difficult.
07:48 aldaris right, so now what we say instead is, here you go community go ahead for a year, do your stuff, then you better rebase all your stuff based on our vision & next version
07:49 jamiebowen Also the binaries that will be available with he project will be CDDL licensed. i.e. People won't even need to build to code to get started. .war files are now available for the OpenIG Community Edition already - I haven't managed to get the older versions of OpenDJ to build yet.
07:50 jamiebowen Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen then. It makes it really difficult.
07:52 jamiebowen They will be new repos. So there's an OpenAM Community Edition 11.0.3 now, and when 12.0.x goes end of service life there will be another repository created. Unless of course the community would like to see it handled differently and has better suggestions?
07:53 asyd jamiebowen: do you have link or any others info for the "openam" community build/etc?
07:53 jamiebowen https://forgerock.github.io/openam-community-edition-11.0.3/
07:54 asyd oh ok thanks
07:54 jamiebowen It's still not complete yet. I can't get the binaries built due to problems compiling the version of OpenDJ it uses. But will be there as soon as poss.
07:55 jamiebowen One point to note it that I've changed all the groupId's of the maven artifacts from org.forgerock.<blah> to org.forgerock.ce.<blah> so that original and CE versions can co-exist in the wild.
07:57 jamiebowen The CE projects also pull from a newly created artifactory repository (maven.forgerock.org/repo/community) which needs no credentials for access. This is still not fully populated but it's getting there as quickly as possible.
08:00 KermitTheFragger jamiebowen: voicing my thoughts here (not attacking anyone) but do you think such a model could work? The community working on somesort of 3 year old fork? I also have a hard time to see why that would be a good thing for ForgeRock
08:01 jamiebowen How this all works in the future with regard to next eosl versions etc is not set in stone, and to a large degree any community that forms around the Community Editions will have a good say in how things work.
08:01 KermitTheFragger like I said yesterday; It feels like doing a Sun / MS Java thing on yourself?
08:02 KermitTheFragger community developed plugins wouldn't be compatible with the FR versions, People who gained experience with FR products in the community variant can't transfer all that knowledge to the FR product
08:02 jamiebowen Well, I'm and engineer not a business studies type so not my area of expertise. I do used quite a few Community Editions daily though, e.g. IntelliJ Idea
08:02 KermitTheFragger yeah but those products have the same code base
08:02 KermitTheFragger the enterprise versions are basically a plus version
08:03 KermitTheFragger For example the plugin API of OpenDJ 2.6, 3.5 and 4 are totally different
08:05 jamiebowen As I said, I'm and engineer and don't make business decisions. We'll just have to see how it goes and what interest it picks up. I hope it works, because personally I really like the idea of a github community.
08:07 jamiebowen It's going to be interesting to see what direction it takes, if anyone finds it interesting or not. I think the difference will be the availability and licensing around the binaries. If people can just pick them up and start using it without having to build etc, then I think there is way more chance of a community building. But that's personal opinion.
08:07 jamiebowen Personal hope I should say ;-)
08:08 KermitTheFragger I think the major issue is that even if a community forms around it it will drift from the FR product. Even if there comes a source drop in the future merging the 2 will probably an almost impossible task since people with different visions work on them
08:09 KermitTheFragger If there would be a community version; Whats the incentive for anyone not to take 13.0 or the last available 14 RC1 source and take that as a base?
08:12 jamiebowen I think if you're technically competent and happy to build code yourself then go for it. If you're building yourself a website, android and iphone app and just want to pick up some binaries and go, then the Community Editions might well be the better choice.
08:14 KermitTheFragger the community version would need people also to make bugfixes etc. Usually the community edition is backed by the vendor. But in this case no-one backs it
08:14 KermitTheFragger the people who are technically competent will probably move on or use a later fork
08:14 KermitTheFragger and the people who aren't won't be supported by FR nor by the technically competent
08:14 KermitTheFragger (all IMHO)
08:16 jamiebowen We'll just have to see what happens!
08:17 KermitTheFragger time will tell it all!
08:18 jamiebowen It will indeed. It's good at that :-)
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21:02 jjpp hm. it appears there is https://www.forgerock.com/about-us/press-releases/forgerock-transforms-digital-identity-with-new-platform/
21:02 jjpp does not contain word "community", though
21:11 jelmd what happens is IMHO pretty clear: no one wanma invest its time to maintain an outdated/4-5 old version of software. And saying to the community, take this … and do what you want effectively says: we do not have any interest in a so called community and “community” says, well, goodbye …
21:15 jelmd most universities use openldap + shibbo*, so at least for us the FR behavior actually is more or less a: you own fault, if you try to swim against the stream …
21:16 jelmd adapt to others and make it a “standard” this way …
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