Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2014-02-03

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00:41 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome to http://openframeworks.cc/ | logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
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00:57 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome to http://openframeworks.cc/ | logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
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12:05 abergmeier Anyone interested in reading the rc of my bachelor thesis? (OF inside)
12:08 ofarturo is that the emscripten port?
12:16 abergmeier yep
12:18 ofarturo yeah, if you can send it? arturo at openframeworks dot cc
12:20 abergmeier Any constructive feedback welcome :)
12:24 ofarturo :) sure
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19:33 danomatika baker
19:33 bakercp @danomaticka
19:33 bakercp tika
19:33 bakercp sorry about the mess
19:33 danomatika stuff is all catching up and I didn't really check it that much
19:34 bakercp cool
19:34 danomatika but it needs to be fixed if we're trying to get people to use it
19:34 bakercp yeah, i know.  it's vital.
19:34 danomatika I'm promoting the prebuild step to a full "prepare" action
19:34 bakercp yeah, i saw that.  nice.
19:34 danomatika the function stub has to be in all the formulas, otherwise the overriding fails
19:35 bakercp yeah, i noticed that.  fancy bash.
19:35 danomatika when running multiple formulas form 1 apojtecary script call
19:35 bakercp so, we chatted briefly about the best way to do dependencies --
19:35 bakercp without recompiling everything every time
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19:37 bakercp to make it easiest for complex libraries (cairo, harfbuzz) that depend on freetype, and need a static link, it makes a lot of sense to have a PREFIX_DIR (something like /usr/local) to install everything linux-y.  Then encourage people to do this obnoxious "lib" prefix stripping, etc in a the copy() function.
19:38 bakercp But the question is, for static libs that we do not directly link against by default in the core (libz, libbz2, etc) what is the best way to prevent a copy to the $LIBS_DIR if we move their formulae into the main (not depends) folder?
19:39 bakercp Also, did you have a recommandation for checking to see if a formula is is already "installed" in the $PREFIX_DIR (aka /usr/local/include /usr/local/bin/ etc)
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19:39 danomatika we can't install anything to the system
19:39 danomatika thats way beyond the scope of this project
19:39 bakercp yeah, i know.  that's why we need a $PREFIX_DIR
19:39 danomatika I already have that for cairo etc
19:39 bakercp it would live in .../build/buildroot or something
19:40 danomatika yeah thats fine
19:40 bakercp Right.  What is the best way to do that so that other formulae can share the same build products in a buildroot.
19:40 dantheman lol
19:40 danomatika in the cairo formula, I call it apothecary-build to avoid any nameclasshes
19:41 danomatika anyway, i just need to put out the fires right now and move on to aother project which is imminent, we can hash tis over later
19:41 bakercp So, perhaps it is as easy as adding the --prefix=$PREFIX_DIR when building and make sure that $PREFIX_DIR is set to $BUILD_DIR/apothecary_build
19:42 bakercp (I'm also puting out a font fire, which is why I'm on this :)
19:44 danomatika *sigh*
19:44 danomatika look at cairo
19:44 bakercp ok
19:44 danomatika thats exactly how I do it already :D
19:45 danomatika it's already there, just in the local cairo directoy
19:45 bakercp - That I understand, basically I'm just looking for a +1 from you to move that out for others to use more generally :)
19:45 bakercp others == other formulas
19:45 danomatika yeah do it, but wait until I push this prepare update, then you can try updating cairo
19:46 bakercp got it.
19:46 bakercp i'll do it in a branch to make sure the fires are out.
19:46 bakercp ;)
19:46 bakercp ping me when you push
19:46 danomatika I don't really want to be a dictator on this for the long term, was early hoping other people can step up and you guys are now, whew ... but maybe I should dictate for now until we get the basics covered :D
19:47 danomatika the *last* thing I want to be is the "OF libraries" maintainer
19:47 bakercp yeah, dude we need a little dictator for just a little while longer ... you know it the best :)
19:47 bakercp a temporary voluntary dictator?
19:48 jvcleave military coup
19:48 bakercp many of the world's problems could be solved by a person with that job title.
19:48 danomatika ... hah, well I created the country first
19:48 bakercp i guess they all start like that though ... :)
19:48 bakercp true.
19:48 danomatika now I'm ailing and willing to transition to a demoracy
19:48 danomatika democracy
19:48 bakercp there are definitely riots in the repo.
19:48 danomatika concessions are being made
19:49 danomatika I want a peacful transition
19:49 bakercp don't worry, the UN is about to get involved.
20:14 danomatika how about a dependencies folder?
20:14 danomatika I don't want to put deepen formulas in the main formulas folder
20:14 danomatika depend
20:14 bakercp well, it kind of works, but my libs depend on freetype / cairo
20:14 bakercp so i'd prefer not to re-re-build them.
20:15 danomatika huh you misunderstand me
20:15 danomatika freetype and cairo are regular formulas which also go in OF
20:15 bakercp right
20:15 danomatika libpng is not
20:15 bakercp right
20:15 danomatika I don't want update core to build libpng but it cshuld of course build cairo and freetype
20:16 bakercp oh -- ok.   I think i understand.  that would keep them from being copied, etc.
20:16 danomatika everything is simple om purpose
20:16 bakercp I was just adding an opt-out flag in those folders to make prevent a dir from being made, etc.
20:16 danomatika eh no
20:16 bakercp your idea wins.
20:17 danomatika just one folder the main script ignores ... Ill do that now
20:17 bakercp super.
20:17 danomatika I just need to test the prepare part first
20:17 bakercp sure.
20:17 danomatika the problem is that it takes at least 20 minutes to find out if the build makes it through the core
20:17 dantheman hey bakercp
20:17 dantheman question
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20:19 bakercp @dantheman
20:19 bakercp go on ...
20:19 dantheman so can I set HTTP request headers with your ofxHTTP Client branch right?
20:19 bakercp yes
20:19 dantheman I wanna try something
20:20 bakercp it all extends poco::namevaluecollection so, so you just set it and it all gets sent w/ the request.
20:20 dantheman or will I need to dig out my defunct PR
20:20 bakercp i haven't messed with it for a while ... so hopefully it is all still working :)
20:20 dantheman and redo it
20:20 dantheman well I needs to pass some Basic Auth headers
20:20 dantheman or just Authentication
20:20 dantheman key-value
20:20 dantheman right right
20:20 dantheman which is how I did the PR
20:21 bakercp basic auth headers are easy -- you can attach basic auth credentials. that's all built in.
20:21 dantheman had to make a chance to make it compile
20:21 dantheman lol
20:21 dantheman yeah
20:21 dantheman I figure
20:21 bakercp i think there's a class for adding credentials.
20:21 dantheman its how I shoe-horned it into the core
20:23 dantheman with that PR that is stale
20:25 dantheman yeah there is
20:25 dantheman hmmm
20:25 dantheman still need a way to load this Async
20:26 bakercp I started doing it wit Poco::ActiveRecord
20:26 dantheman ooooo
20:26 dantheman k
20:26 bakercp it's like a std::future
20:26 bakercp Just a little uglier.
20:27 dantheman haha
20:27 bakercp https://github.com/bakercp/ofxFuture
20:27 bakercp never pushed my work ...
20:27 bakercp cause c++11 seemed so close ...
20:27 dantheman lol
20:27 dantheman soooo close
20:28 danomatika bakercp, how can you handle so many addons
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20:28 bakercp i can't.  clearly.
20:28 danomatika maintenance is a pain for my 4 already
20:29 danomatika although, 2 of those 4 are interpreters and 1 is heavily cross platform
20:29 danomatika the cross platform part is killer
20:29 dantheman danomatika: with help
20:29 dantheman from peeps
20:29 dantheman who use them
20:29 danomatika yeah of course
20:29 danomatika but not all of those peeps test thins
20:29 dantheman danomatika: cross platform does suck
20:29 danomatika nor report back
20:29 dantheman but I can triple boot my mbp_r
20:29 danomatika sure
20:30 danomatika but that sucks and is also a pain
20:30 dantheman danomatika: very true
20:30 bakercp No promises @dantheman
20:30 dantheman yup
20:30 bakercp https://github.com/bakercp/ofxFuture
20:30 bakercp just pushed work.
20:30 dantheman lol
20:30 bakercp more for an example than something terribly useful.
20:30 dantheman <3
20:30 dantheman yah
20:30 bakercp The thing that I was trying to do was to figure out a way to reach back into an already-executing future and get in progress data.
20:31 bakercp very difficult with the way Poco::ActiveRecord works.
20:31 dantheman I might just hack it back into the core
20:31 bakercp easy example here
20:31 dantheman I have that PR around here somewhere
20:31 bakercp https://github.com/bakercp/ofxIpVideoGrabb​er/blob/master/src/IPVideoGrabber.cpp#L497
20:32 bakercp Should work easily w/ the core.
20:32 dantheman I have a few of those hacked cores
20:32 dantheman floating
20:32 danomatika wee hacked cores ... that sounds like a sustainable plan
20:32 bakercp just pass your request to the authenticate func.  As long as it's basic (and not digest or something), it's all done in one pass.
20:32 bakercp fills in the headers for you.
20:33 dantheman and danomatika if you write your code well enough it should JUST WORK cross platform
20:33 dantheman haha
20:33 bakercp haaaaaaaaaaaa
20:33 dantheman #famouslastwords
20:33 danomatika if you write pure C++
20:33 dantheman yeah thats how I did it
20:33 danomatika ... maybe
20:33 bakercp what is "pure c++"
20:33 danomatika no external libs
20:33 bakercp C++78
20:34 dantheman lol
20:34 dantheman yah
20:34 bakercp i only use local, organic C++.
20:36 danomatika nerds
20:36 dantheman I like to write C without LibC
20:36 dantheman PURE C
20:36 bakercp i only use commands with three letters in all caps.
20:36 dantheman haha
20:36 danomatika fuck you all, I only the the * programming langage
20:36 dantheman I'm more of a RAW CPP
20:36 dantheman kinda guy
20:36 danomatika * -> whatever function you need ... * -> whatever variable you need
20:36 dantheman haha
20:37 danomatika *
20:37 dantheman danomatika: is getting mad
20:37 danomatika thats hello world
20:37 danomatika ** thats fibonacci sequence
20:37 danomatika SEE SEE
20:37 danomatika its like brianfuck but way more theotetical
20:38 bakercp i only write in gnu make.
20:38 bakercp it is unwise to use languages that are not older oneself.
20:38 bakercp and it is dangerous to use turing complete languages.
20:40 danomatika * passes the turing test
20:40 danomatika * is what I would tell students when they would complain that the high level functions they were using were too difficult to use and they wanted higher level ones
20:41 bakercp i just give them one of these http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikip​edia/commons/2/20/Magic_wand.svg
20:41 bakercp that usually satisfies them.
20:42 danomatika oh, do you guys have any udoo boards?
20:42 danomatika at SAIC?
20:42 bakercp no.  not @ SAIC yet.
20:42 bakercp haven't ordered any though.
20:42 danomatika pretty nice
20:42 bakercp they are on my list.
20:42 danomatika I have one, it's really snappy
20:42 bakercp just got spark core, which is fun.
20:43 danomatika installing my pd environment on it now
20:43 bakercp did folks get oF running on there?  does it have good hard float and gl drivers yet?
20:43 danomatika I don't think anyone has tried
20:43 danomatika there are several images
20:43 bakercp yes, we have :)
20:43 danomatika most are hf
20:43 bakercp cool.
20:43 danomatika the 4 cores is what makes it nice
20:44 bakercp Ali was working on getting oF installed a few folks on the forum.
20:44 bakercp But, there haven't been enough around for people to work on them yet.
20:44 danomatika I don't need OF on it, so I haven't bothered
20:44 bakercp When we last tried, the hf images hadn't been released.
20:44 bakercp which was a few months ago.
20:46 danomatika I'm using it in my new show, it's the new heart of the robotcowboy setup
20:47 danomatika ... that show is on Sat and I only get the images working on it yesterday so weee
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20:48 dantheman lol
20:48 dantheman danomatika: you're funny
21:03 danomatika koi Im still building OF core
21:03 danomatika takes a long time :D
21:04 bakercp make -j10 -s
21:04 bakercp ?
21:04 bakercp use all your cores
21:04 danomatika all my 2?
21:04 bakercp yeah.
21:04 bakercp what kind of computer are you on?
21:04 danomatika 2009 MBP
21:04 danomatika 13
21:04 bakercp it will use all of your hyperthreaded cores, etc.
21:05 bakercp or whatever they call those magical virtual things.
21:05 danomatika Id still like to be bale to use the computer while its building tho
21:05 bakercp well, then ...
21:05 bakercp :)
21:05 bakercp -j1
21:06 jvcleave multitasking is non-productive
21:07 jvcleave like rendering - compiling doesn't work unless you watch it happen line by line
21:07 bakercp so true.
21:11 danomatika nerds
21:12 danomatika heh
21:12 danomatika ok, almost done checking, will push soon
21:13 danomatika caught a bad patch application, have to check if the patch was applied before applying it
21:13 danomatika also updated readme
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21:16 danomatika one reason it takes so long is the universal builds
21:17 danomatika some of the formulas could be updated to build both architectures together, but after I got the working I moved on to other things
21:17 bakercp I have simultaneous fat build setup for several of them in my local repo
21:17 danomatika as it is now, most build 1 arch, copy the libs, then build the next arch, copy the libs, then the libs are linked together
21:17 danomatika yeah
21:18 danomatika please update that if you can
21:18 danomatika be nice to be able to avoid the make clean; make steps
21:18 bakercp yeah, i will later this afternoon
21:18 bakercp yeah
21:25 danomatika ok, got the prepare action done
21:26 danomatika moving depends out of cairo
21:26 danomatika into  formlas/_depends
21:26 danomatika the build root could be build/_depends
21:27 danomatika aka prefix = build/_depends
21:27 bakercp sounds great.
21:27 danomatika there could also be a new build target called depends
21:27 danomatika so apothecary update depends would compile all the depends into the build root
21:28 danomatika Im not going to add any smarts yet aka check if the lib is already built etc yet
21:28 danomatika we can figure that out later, one step at a time
21:28 bakercp yep
21:28 bakercp cool.
21:28 danomatika I have some simple ideas for that
21:28 danomatika the main thing for me is to try to keep the scripts readable
21:29 danomatika this is why the formulas are separated form the main script ala Homebrew
21:29 danomatika if its not easy to use or easy to maintain, then nobody will use it
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22:03 danomatika bakercp
22:03 danomatika I've added some new variables
22:03 danomatika DEPENDS_FORMULA_DIR & DEPENDS_BUILD_DIR
22:05 danomatika but thats for core dependencies
22:05 danomatika you'd still need to use your own locations for addon dependencies
22:06 danomatika for the formulas door that is
22:06 danomatika the DEPENDS_BUILD_DIR is the path to the prefix install
22:06 danomatika build/_depend
22:06 danomatika err build/_depends
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22:56 triazo I was thinking of getting started with of on linux, but I couldn't find any guides for setting up the environment without and IDE.  Does anybody know of a good way to start looking at this?
22:56 dantheman you mean just to use make?
22:56 triazo yeah.
22:56 dantheman just download the release
22:56 dantheman or checkout master from git
22:57 bakercp then go into an example folder and "make"
22:57 dantheman install the deps https://github.com/openframeworks/ope​nFrameworks/tree/master/scripts/linux
22:57 dantheman pretty much
22:57 dantheman after you generate the projects
22:57 bakercp after you install the deps --
22:57 bakercp Do you have to generate the projects with the linux distro?
22:57 danomatika yes
22:58 danomatika well, the code blocks files I believe
22:58 bakercp lame.
22:58 dantheman bakercp: I think in the release they are already tehre
22:58 danomatika but the makefiles work
22:58 dantheman there*
22:58 dantheman yah
22:58 dantheman make && make run
22:58 bakercp Yeah, in the release ...
22:58 dantheman bakercp: I got my PR updated and working again
22:58 bakercp @dantheman link?
22:58 dantheman I have cookies, headers, form data, and files
22:58 dantheman I think I'm missing basic auth
22:59 dantheman but that is about it
22:59 bakercp was it a PR against ofxHTTP or the core?
22:59 dantheman the core
22:59 bakercp cool.
22:59 dantheman was thinking we should colab and figure stuff
22:59 dantheman for the final PR?
22:59 bakercp sure.
23:00 bakercp I'm trying to get ofxFont to shape this correctly "صِف خَلقَ خَودِ كَمِثلِ الشَمسِ إِذ بَزَغَت — يَحظى الضَجيعُ بِها نَجلاءَ مِعطارِ"
23:02 dantheman haha
23:03 dantheman lol
23:03 dantheman you cray cray
23:03 bakercp If you can't go all the way with typography ... don't even bother ... right?
23:03 bakercp :)
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23:04 bakercp this is the chart of my life.
23:04 bakercp https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq​RLrRqNEKv-dG53NFlnbWg5TEp6ejVxdnVjYXZQZkE#gid=0
23:07 dantheman holy
23:07 dantheman wow
23:07 dantheman some life
23:07 bakercp typography is hard.
23:08 bakercp and i'm just tryint to implement existing libraries in an oF context ... :)
23:11 dantheman 1yah
23:11 dantheman one of the most complex things in Graphics
23:11 dantheman is drawing text
23:12 GuidovanPossum I thought you guys were using cars for that these days
23:13 dantheman shhh
23:13 dantheman http://deadspin.com/georgia-lawyers-local-s​uper-bowl-ad-is-batshit-amazing-1514869904
23:13 dantheman OMG
23:13 bakercp @dantheman ... yeah, i just watched that.  indead, very very strange.
23:13 bakercp must have been expensive ... no?
23:14 dantheman local commercials
23:14 dantheman I think right
23:14 dantheman but still pricey
23:19 GuidovanPossum just watched the video again, but it looks like Toyota has removed the old location of the iQ font to download
23:25 danomatika yeah, because why would we want to keep stuff around online for long?
23:26 danomatika too bad
23:26 danomatika bakercp, the dependency stuff is getting fancy now
23:27 bakercp nice!
23:27 danomatika Im making it a lot easier now
23:27 bakercp very excited to hear it.
23:27 danomatika you just specify the formulas depends in an array
23:27 danomatika and it does pretty much everything else
23:28 bakercp yes!  i had such an array at the top of the fomula earlier today ... was wishful thinking.  glad you did it :)
23:28 danomatika I could make that work for addons too, but I'll save that for later
23:28 nylki_ joined #openframeworks
23:28 danomatika it saves a lot of boilerplate
23:36 GuidovanPossum I had a question about compiling oF apps for osx, for graphics apps would it have to be compiled on the individual machine that the user has or should one version work on them all?
23:48 danomatika one version will work
23:48 danomatika the app bundle is portable
23:49 danomatika ... in the data dir
23:49 danomatika you can update the Xcode rpoejct to copy the resources (data folder) inside the app bundle and use that, but by default it doesnt
23:50 danomatika short answer: you can build an osx app, and zip up the bin folder, it shoudk work on another machine
23:51 danomatika thats the point of app bundles, they should "just work"
23:57 GuidovanPossum ok thanks, that's what I thought too, just making sure, I'd made an app bundle with Xcode but after a certain point in development it would only run on the computer that compiled it, I'll look into it more

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