Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2014-06-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

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19:33 admsyn jvcleave: you're playing with swift already?
19:33 admsyn jvcleave: I can't find the Xcode 6 DL :/
19:34 jvcleave looking at the docs
19:34 jvcleave https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/swift-programming-language/id881256329?mt=11
19:38 admsyn ah k
19:38 admsyn I'm just trying to get Xcode 6 but it looks like they haven't actually updated the links yet
19:38 admsyn it's been, like,minutes
19:39 jvcleave yeah - made the mistake of trying to watch on apple tv and it needed an update - it has been about an hour
19:39 jvcleave usually just takes a few minutes
19:41 admsyn :(
19:41 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
19:41 admsyn ah there it is
19:41 * admsyn is downloading Xcode 6
19:41 admsyn OS X yosemite eh
19:41 jvcleave still on 10.8 here
19:42 admsyn so swift can interop with Objective-C..does that mean it can with C++ too?
19:42 admsyn as in does it also interop with Objective-C++ I wonder
19:42 jvcleave that's the big question
19:43 jvcleave It looks quite nice - much cleaner without all the Obj-C weirdness user facing
19:43 jvcleave I think you can message nil still and undeclared values are still 0'ed out
19:44 admsyn yeah presumably it still runs on the Obj-C runtime>
19:44 admsyn ?
19:44 * admsyn is also downloading that there ebook
19:45 jvcleave i'm guessing the optimizations come from LLVM - somewhat how C++ can be faster than C
19:47 admsyn oh interesting
19:47 admsyn IBInspectable
19:47 pizthewiz admsyn: Yes, it uses the new runtime
19:47 admsyn and IBDesignable
19:47 admsyn attributes for Swift objects
19:47 admsyn wonder if that's gonna make its way over to Obj-C too
19:48 jvcleave i think Obj-C is over right?
19:48 admsyn vOv
19:48 * admsyn didn't actually watch the keynote
19:48 admsyn <_< >_>
19:49 pizthewiz Nah, it isn't "over", Swift is a new language in the mix
19:49 pizthewiz I highly doubt system frameworks have been rewritten in Swift for OS X Yosemite
19:49 admsyn it *looks* like it's kinda a scripting language for doing the 95% of work that is just basically plugging stuff together
19:49 jvcleave I guess TBD but would be suprised if they updated the language
19:50 pizthewiz I think it just provides a new language option
19:51 jvcleave I saw C++ like templates
19:51 admsyn that part looks kinda like haskell
19:52 admsyn or rather what I remember from haskell :3
19:52 admsyn like "this function takes a thing that can be compared"
19:53 jvcleave yeah - it has closures/ability to pass functions - that stuff sometimes gets way too clever - not really the language's fault but still...
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19:56 admsyn interesting, there's a new "playground"
19:56 admsyn as in, instead of a "project" and "workspace"
19:59 admsyn well, OF works with Xcode 6
19:59 admsyn so that's awesome
19:59 admsyn w/ the 10.10 SDK and all
20:00 admsyn ah of course
20:01 admsyn swift won't work on i386
20:01 pizthewiz Good riddance
20:01 jvcleave lol i have to read the book on my phone
20:02 dantheman admsyn: nice
20:02 admsyn ok gonna see if swift-ing some OF is possible
20:02 pizthewiz OS X Mavericks doesn't support i386 either ????
20:02 admsyn without too much hack
20:02 admsyn it REALLY doesn't like GLEW so far
20:02 dantheman did they fix the openGL stuff
20:03 admsyn actually someone has an OSX 64bit branch somewhere right?
20:03 dantheman yeah
20:03 admsyn or is just as simple as just setting it to compile in 64bit
20:03 dantheman there is a cpp11 branch too
20:03 dantheman apparently
20:03 admsyn yeah right
20:03 dantheman why can't people push that stuff to the main repo
20:03 dantheman so I don't have to configure different folders
20:03 pizthewiz You need the 64-bit branch since all the pre-compiled libs also need to be recompliled and use libc++
20:04 dantheman like I have scripts to manage my git
20:04 dantheman and move things around
20:04 dantheman and checkout stuff
20:04 pizthewiz Because the oF repo is always tracking a minor dot release… ?
20:04 dantheman pizthewiz: no like there is the feature 64bit branch
20:04 dantheman here's the feature cpp11 branch
20:04 pizthewiz Wha?
20:05 pizthewiz Oh right, there are 64-bit and C++11/libc++ branches
20:05 dantheman so here is a https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/tree/feature-64bit
20:05 dantheman one of the 64 bit branches
20:06 dantheman https://github.com/openFrameworks-cpp11
20:06 dantheman like there is cpp11
20:08 * admsyn cloning
20:08 admsyn anyone else get Xcode 6?
20:08 pizthewiz Having to track these efforts in external repos makes them feel pretty perepherial to oF and I wonder if they don't get as much attention / synced
20:08 admsyn we were just talking about them during the IRC meeting yesterday
20:08 pizthewiz Yeah I've got Xcode 6 / Yosemite, but I have some other work to do before I can check out oF
20:08 admsyn and it's milestoned for 0.9.0 now
20:08 admsyn to do 64bit and cpp11 in one step to cut down on fragmentation
20:08 pizthewiz Unless 0.9.0 is the next oF release, it won't mean a whole lot though
20:09 jvcleave it is
20:09 pizthewiz That's good to hear then
20:09 dantheman pizthewiz: that is the target
20:09 dantheman 0.9.0
20:09 dantheman with windows app store support and all that jaz
20:09 dantheman jazzz
20:09 pizthewiz So in theory they can be merged into master the evening of 10 June?
20:09 dantheman ha
20:09 dantheman 0.9.0 isn't targeted for June 10th
20:10 dantheman that is 0.8.3
20:10 admsyn but they could be brought in after, to find the bugs etc
20:10 dantheman aka openFrameworks 0.8 with less bugs
20:10 pizthewiz Right, but wouldn't 0.9.0 work begin immediately?
20:10 dantheman depends
20:10 dantheman I want to him 1.0.0 before the end of the year
20:10 dantheman but that won't happen
20:11 pizthewiz How long has C++11 support been discussed, you think we could really 1.0.0 in 6 months?!
20:11 jvcleave Swift has an "is" keyword - I miss that from AS3
20:11 pizthewiz That means we'll be discussing C++14 in 3 years yeah? :0)
20:11 dantheman lol
20:11 admsyn Lp
20:12 admsyn :p
20:12 dantheman pizthewiz: pretty much
20:12 dantheman 0.9.0 work is already underway
20:12 admsyn part of it is that there's been a lot of effort given to apothecary, to make recreating libs in the future not ridiculously difficult
20:12 pizthewiz Where, is there a v0.9.0 branch?
20:12 dantheman yah
20:12 dantheman ahh
20:12 admsyn so it's not "taken this long to do C++11" as it is "taken this long to be ready to update regularly-ish"
20:12 dantheman see that is the other thing I don't like
20:12 admsyn but it's still way slow I agree
20:13 dantheman I want a branches setup that way
20:13 dantheman so you can do a PR to 0.9.0
20:13 dantheman while we work on 0.8.3
20:13 pizthewiz I've helped out with Apothecary stuff, but that too was external and didn't seem to get much attention
20:13 pizthewiz Yeah, I was branches on the oF repo with people that are responsible for merging upstream changes
20:13 pizthewiz Make them usable for people to get feedback
20:13 admsyn I think you might be overestimating how much attention anything in particular is getting..
20:14 pizthewiz And when I say I helped out, I just mean I PR'd some recipe changes for ARMv7l and ARMv6l, though it got all murky without clear direction to contribute
20:17 jvcleave pizthewiz - what were those PRs?
20:17 pizthewiz Poco formulas for ARMv6l and ARMv7l
20:17 jvcleave oh - not OF - gotcha
20:17 pizthewiz Yeah sorry, not in oF proper
20:17 jvcleave missed that part
20:20 admsyn maybe eyeo'll be a good time to yell about it :3
20:20 admsyn I'm planning on basically setting up shop on that extra day at the end to do some OF work
20:21 admsyn as in on OF, bugfixing etc
20:21 admsyn so if there's a couple people in the same room there'd probably be enough momentum to get stuff going
20:21 admsyn IMO the slowness is mostly due to there not being too many times where people's free-ish time lines up
20:22 pizthewiz So we'd all be hacking on v0.9.0 then? :0)
20:22 admsyn basically, yeah
20:22 admsyn and even if the only output is just finding all the pain points it at least makes a specific checklist people can look at whenever they have individual free time
20:23 pizthewiz I'd be happy if someone merged the 64-bit/C++11 stuff in
20:23 admsyn so maybe we just do that and say "hey we merged it in everything's working gogogogogo"
20:23 pizthewiz Even if it isn't complete, isn't that the whole point of a dev branch? ????
20:24 admsyn man this git clone is taking forever
20:24 admsyn and yeah basically
20:24 jedahan --depth=1 ftw
20:24 admsyn ah
20:24 admsyn right
20:24 admsyn where were you minutes ago
20:25 pizthewiz Yeah I was just going to say, either grab a single branch or don't grab history
20:25 pizthewiz This was a pretty decent article: http://blogs.atlassian.com/2014/05/handle-big-repositories-git/
20:26 admsyn yeah so that took maybe 1/1000th of the time
20:26 * admsyn derp
20:28 jvcleave Can't tell if Swift files are one file or split into header/footer
20:28 jvcleave header/implementation
20:28 admsyn there's a bridging header apparently
20:28 admsyn if you want to talk to Obj-C
20:28 admsyn things I learned in my 3 seconds
20:28 admsyn also the playground thing is sweet
20:29 admsyn pretty much feels like coding in bret victor land
20:29 jedahan admsyn watching http://vimeo.com/36579366 sooo inspiring :)
20:29 jvcleave ugh
20:33 jedahan time to learn tcpdump so I can see if theres a way to intercept iBooks either on the download side or the print side so I can actually read the swift book not on my laptop
20:33 jedahan (anyone have a spare iDevice I can borrow at eyeo?)
20:33 jvcleave i should be able to dropbox
20:33 jvcleave one sec
20:43 jvcleave hmm - can't find the file on the phone
20:44 jedahan I wonder if I can create a virtual networked airprint compatible pdf printer, and use that as a workaround
20:44 jedahan or learn how lsof works better to find where the file is being written in osx
20:49 jvcleave epub doc https://www.dropbox.com/s/1eri5e1l2jl92tm/Swift.zip
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21:07 jedahan jvcleave was that on the iOS filesystem?
21:07 jedahan I am currently trying to figure out how to access a file if you know the file descriptor in osx... /proc isn't exposed :(
21:08 jedahan hmm that link ain't workin for me :(
21:08 jedahan ohh its an html page not a zip duh
21:09 GuidovanPossum thanks jvcleave that's just what I was looking for!
21:09 jedahan thanks jvcleave
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21:18 antonOTI hi
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