Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2014-09-08

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17:18 togo hello...
17:21 togo just wanted to say hi first.
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21:42 pizthewiz @admsyn: I'm totally confused, what is the minimium OS X config that OF-0.9.0 is targeting? i386 / 10.7?
21:47 admsyn pizthewiz: I don't think there's been a point where 10.7 has been discussed explicitly
21:47 pizthewiz OOoooo, we can go 10.8?!
21:47 pizthewiz 🙏‼️
21:47 admsyn 10.6.8 was A Thing for a while in terms of support, and since conclusively moving beyond that I don't think there's been a follow up w/ the more modern OSXes
21:47 admsyn haha
21:48 admsyn *I* would be all for it
21:48 admsyn but that doesn't mean much I suppose
21:48 pizthewiz Man I woudl be too
21:48 admsyn if it's a big deal for a certain whatever it could be brought up on the list.. but there's not like a document and RFC etc a la cinder
21:48 pizthewiz That woudl be we'd be 64-bit only on OS X
21:48 pizthewiz And it means we could be all AV Foundation, no need to even carry QuickTime or QTKit
21:49 admsyn yeah exactly
21:49 pizthewiz I'm really concerned if we don't make a clean cut like this, our projects are going to end up really really weird.
21:49 pizthewiz We'll have to link to QuickTime, QTKit, AVFoundation, CoreMedia and CoreVideo
21:49 admsyn makes sense for 0.9.0 to be a pretty solid break in terms of old OSes, architectures, windowing systems and bit-ness all at once
21:49 pizthewiz But… how could we ever set a default architecture without knowing the target OS
21:50 pizthewiz Yeah, it seems like we are making a break in closing all QuickTime/QTKit and now possibly GLUT so I'm hopeful
21:50 pizthewiz Otherwise we are going to have a mega Frankenstein sitaution on our hands.
21:50 admsyn so is the situation you're forseeing where someone would want to build on 10.7 and there wouldn't be a sane default combination of build settings?
21:50 pizthewiz Exactly
21:51 admsyn but then on 10.8 it's cool because it's just AVFoudnation?
21:51 pizthewiz Imagine we supported 10.7 which means QTKit and AVFoundation, 32 and 64
21:51 pizthewiz What would the arch be set to in the sample proejcts?
21:51 admsyn yeah ick
21:51 pizthewiz It just seems mega failure prone unless we actually shipped two different releases which is pretty gross.
21:52 admsyn it could be brought up on that apothecary issue since everyone just got roped into it :)
21:52 admsyn or at least the issue you're describing, if not a formal discussion of 10.7 support
21:52 pizthewiz Would it be better in that issue or in a dev list thread?
21:53 admsyn I suspect it'll be in the boat as GLUT where everyone's like "yepp +1"
21:53 pizthewiz I guess if we went 10.8 / 64-bit only, we'd be breaking existing projects. :0\
21:53 admsyn well not 64bit only, but 64bit default?
21:53 pizthewiz Which at least has a single clear answer to resolve, run the validate project settings menu item and you'll be good to go!
21:53 admsyn yeah
21:53 pizthewiz Oh, I thought projects created right now were all manually set to 32-bit right?
21:53 admsyn yeah
21:54 pizthewiz Ok, at least that is a simple change opposed to the logic table of OS being targeted and machine capabilities
21:54 admsyn ok I see what you're saying, you create a project today and in a few months it needs a semi-obtuse update to switch all the frameworks etc?
21:54 pizthewiz Yeah, I think we are in for some bumps either way though.
21:54 pizthewiz It is unavoidable when migrating from QuickTime to QTKit to AV Foundation.
21:55 pizthewiz At least if we went 10.8 only, we'd have a single set of upgrade instructions.
21:55 admsyn yeah I can't see it being that big a deal, hopefully
21:55 pizthewiz Where as if we did 10.7+, the instructions would have clauses based on target OS :0\
21:55 admsyn I figure at some point there's gonna need to be a document spelling it out "Click architectures and set it to.."
21:56 pizthewiz Yeah, so I think if we get 10.8+ it'll be two steps, one to run validate project settings which should sort out the architecture stuff and another for adding / removing frameworks.
21:56 pizthewiz Oh interesting, if we went 10.8+ only, we also wouldn't need the Frankenstein lipo'ing in all the OS X formulas.
21:57 pizthewiz Hmm… the transition will be bumpy either way, doing 10.7+ just delays the bumps for some.
21:59 admsyn why's that RE: not needing the lip?
21:59 admsyn *lipo
21:59 admsyn since the idea is that you'd be able to SOS out of 64bit if you need to
22:01 pizthewiz Well right now, all the OS X formulas are being built twice once for 32 with libstdc++ and again for 64 with libc++ then lipo'd together.
22:01 pizthewiz If we supported 10.8+, we wouldn't need 32 right?
22:04 mtrythall hello admsyn - are you there?
22:05 admsyn hi mtrythall
22:05 mtrythall hello @admsyn - I am with BotBot.me. I am following up on a request we received awhile ago to log this channel. It's not clear to me whether or not we've spoken to you folks
22:05 admsyn err wasn't me?
22:06 mtrythall the user was kylemcd
22:06 mtrythall we follow up just in case, sometimes people check the OP flag on the form
22:06 admsyn pizthewiz: yeah we wouldn't need it, but I think the idea is that there's a fallback in place in case you need 32bit
22:07 admsyn pizthewiz: for example many audio units only work in 32bit, device drivers .. etc
22:07 pizthewiz Yeah… the whole space is pretty tricky huh
22:07 mtrythall @admsyn - no worries. if it isn't something you guys are interested in, i'll delete the request
22:07 admsyn mtrythall: ok sure
22:07 admsyn mtrythall: not sure what the request is :)
22:07 mtrythall admsyn - BotBot.me is IRC logging
22:07 pizthewiz So even if we were 10.8+, we'd still need the 32/QuickTime/QTKit/libstc++ layer for compatability
22:07 mtrythall free for OSS
22:08 admsyn mtrythall: oh do you mean chat logs? we already have a logger, but kylemcd might have had something else in mind
22:08 mtrythall good example: https://botbot.me/freenode/go-nuts/
22:08 pizthewiz Very pretty!
22:09 admsyn mtrythall: nice, you should follow up with kyle though -> https://github.com/kylemcdonald/
22:09 mtrythall OK, thanks!
22:09 pizthewiz The infinite scrolling / time warping is pretty nice too…
22:11 mtrythall thanks. better navigation overall is on our radar
22:11 mtrythall i'm working through a redesign/clean up of it all now
22:46 pizthewiz mtrythall: Keep up the good work, it looks like a really great tool
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