Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2014-10-07

| Channels | #openframeworks index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 workergnome joined #openframeworks
01:11 admsyn joined #openframeworks
01:12 workergnome joined #openframeworks
01:24 vade joined #openframeworks
01:25 workergnome left #openframeworks
01:45 admsyn joined #openframeworks
01:47 ilbot3 joined #openframeworks
01:47 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
01:53 r618 joined #openframeworks
02:06 vade joined #openframeworks
03:02 r618 joined #openframeworks
04:38 vade joined #openframeworks
04:51 r618 joined #openframeworks
06:19 debu joined #openframeworks
06:25 mistermoper joined #openframeworks
06:40 r618 joined #openframeworks
06:49 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
07:10 sebllll_ joined #openframeworks
07:24 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
07:52 r618 joined #openframeworks
07:54 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
08:35 MyMind joined #openframeworks
08:58 neue joined #openframeworks
09:45 MyMind joined #openframeworks
10:09 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
10:09 Pisuke joined #openframeworks
10:33 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
10:39 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
10:54 qDot_ joined #openframeworks
11:00 Marsat joined #openframeworks
11:11 Marsat1 joined #openframeworks
11:12 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
11:16 Marsat1 left #openframeworks
11:32 workergnome joined #openframeworks
11:42 Marsat hello everyone, is there is someone to help me with a little problem ?
12:00 sebllll joined #openframeworks
12:11 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
12:14 Marsat nop ?
12:35 vade joined #openframeworks
12:36 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
12:48 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
12:49 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
13:35 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
13:36 w4ffles joined #openframeworks
13:48 workergnome joined #openframeworks
13:55 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
14:04 darthdeus joined #openframeworks
14:06 gabriels_ joined #openframeworks
14:40 vade joined #openframeworks
14:43 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
14:43 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
14:53 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
15:03 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
15:59 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
16:24 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
16:34 debu joined #openframeworks
16:44 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
16:52 admsyn joined #openframeworks
17:19 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
17:25 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
17:57 workergnome joined #openframeworks
17:59 derekkinsman joined #openframeworks
18:03 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
18:21 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
18:22 neue joined #openframeworks
18:23 TGPTIAlves joined #openframeworks
18:23 TGPTIAlves Hello
18:23 TGPTIAlves Does anyone have experience with OpenFrameworks and Processing?
18:24 TGPTIAlves Is there any reason, beside openframeworks being written in c++, that openframeworks is faster than Processing?
18:25 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
18:25 r618 hi sorry but what ? i dont understand the question
18:26 r618 it probably is faster, but for all practical purposes the difference might be negligeble
18:26 r618 also the i dont like the java environment ::)
18:27 r618 very much
18:28 TGPTIAlves The question is if there are any other reason, besides openframeworks being written in C++, that openframeworks is faster than Processing
18:28 TGPTIAlves does anyone knows about openframeworks implementation vs processing implementation?
18:28 r618 what other reasons for example ?
18:29 TGPTIAlves Implementation
18:29 r618 implementation of what ?
18:29 TGPTIAlves Of the code itself
18:29 r618 afaik processing uses javagl for graphics
18:30 r618 opengl and javagl are comparable in speed
18:31 r618 and the rest of the code - you re asking too general question- i.e. comparing java vm vs. c__ code
18:31 r618 * c++
18:33 r618 and on this the opinions very differ -)
18:33 r618 and dont believe p55 and OF they have common core architecture or such
18:33 r618 = but I might bw wrong :) =
18:34 TGPTIAlves Since OpenFrameworks is based on Processing, I thought their implementation would be similar
18:35 TGPTIAlves and since OpenFrameworks uses  ACU Kit, which was developed by Processing creators
18:37 r618 ah
18:38 r618 so the real question is whether is OF faster than P55 because it has different architecture ?
18:38 r618 might I ask why you're asking ?
18:40 TGPTIAlves Just an argue between me and a friend
18:41 TGPTIAlves He is says that OpenFrameworks is better implemented while I don't say that (nothing on the internet says that it is neither that it isn't)
18:45 r618 well interesting topic for killing time - cheers :)
18:48 bill_automata what does faster mean?
18:49 bill_automata time to first pixel? time to first delight? are you really that concerned with optimizing vector arithmetic? If speed is what you need you can access CUDA/OpenCL/SIMD/AVX extensions in nearly any language or architecture.
18:50 r618 ^
18:50 bill_automata what's "faster" is 99.9999% of the time up to the code, not the architecture
18:51 r618 also i dont believe that any speed difference is because of architecture of either - i assume they are both reasonably architected
18:55 bill_automata the only real comparison could be which framework implements what GL version number, but even then it's not really very different because I can get access to the raw gl properties/attributes from either
18:56 workergnome joined #openframeworks
18:56 bill_automata I saw some example of processing doing some basic tessellation that was beyond the stock renderer version #
18:58 r618 indeed, opengl is not that different in the end
19:08 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
19:11 bill_automata I can interleave float arrays in of and p5
19:20 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
19:28 GuidovanPossum joined #openframeworks
19:29 r618 ive been just recently playing with OF, im happy that it just draws my glDrawArrays
19:29 admsyn TGPTIAlves: yeah as bill_automata is suggesting you're oversimplifying quite a bit
19:29 r618 gl optimizer recommneds switching to VBO, but im not sure the gain would be worth the effeort
19:29 micr0 joined #openframeworks
19:29 micr0 ofxShellshock
19:30 admsyn micr0: does it exist? :)
19:30 micr0 automatically tries to load your oF app on all vulnerable computers
19:30 admsyn as in on the LAN ?
19:30 micr0 I'm in a Tea Lounge, 99% of people on laptops. Unsecured wireless. Wondering if I can spawn a chat program to get everyone to talk to one another.
19:31 micr0 exactly admsyn
19:31 admsyn maybe you can use shellshock on the router, and OF emscripten to have the router send everyone to a page running off your computer
19:31 admsyn which is an OF app but you know js and whatever the kids are doing nowadays
19:31 micr0 haha yeah i was thinking that
19:32 micr0 just running some like mozilla p2p webchat example off my laptop
19:32 r618 haha
19:32 admsyn I'd imagine at this point someone's knocked together some sort of shellshock script that does the router redirect thing
19:32 admsyn if not do it man you'll get mad internet points
19:32 r618 are those people with laptops hipsters with macs ? cause otherwise you wont have much luck i suppose :)
19:32 micr0 ohhh I need those internet points
19:32 admsyn also micr0 you're a teacher now I gather?
19:33 admsyn assuming you're also jedahan :)
19:33 micr0 ahh yes
19:33 micr0 same person, i think if you whois me
19:33 admsyn yeah you're ~micr0@subtle/user/jedahan
19:33 micr0 oh wow, that usermask
19:33 micr0 so ooold
19:33 micr0 but yeah, I teach at Parsons
19:34 admsyn nice
19:34 micr0 its been fun! no one knows how to code!
19:34 micr0 and its a required class O_O
19:34 admsyn haha
19:34 admsyn yeah I think I caught you saying something about this on like artsec or somethign
19:34 admsyn I saw the course on github :)
19:34 micr0 twitter prolly
19:34 * admsyn does that sort of thing
19:34 micr0 oh yeah its a mess
19:34 micr0 you teach too?
19:35 admsyn no no, internet snoop
19:35 micr0 ohh, thats the best way to learn about cool stuff
19:35 admsyn workshops and freelance gigs 100%
19:35 micr0 workshops are good, especially after you've run one 2-3x its like, sooo much easier
19:35 micr0 like this is my first full time class and i am woefully underprepared but some of the students are having a good time so thats all i care about
19:35 micr0 (i mean, and learning of course)
19:36 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
19:36 admsyn cool
19:36 admsyn so what sort of things do they gravitate towards in 2014?
19:37 micr0 well, they being print & design students at parsons?
19:37 admsyn as in learning programming from scratch, is it still like processing / arduino?
19:37 admsyn yeah
19:37 micr0 this was a very open cirriculum
19:37 * admsyn learned p5 / arduino in art school in 2006
19:37 micr0 they basically had a paragraph of like 'understand how to learn' and 'not be afraid of technology'
19:37 micr0 'demonstrate programming ability'
19:38 micr0 up to all the 7 teachers to interperet that how they will
19:38 micr0 but gravitating towards javascript + html + css
19:38 admsyn makes sense
19:38 micr0 i am teaching with p5js.org, as an experiment
19:38 micr0 i mean the first three weeks we didn't touch code
19:38 admsyn also makes sense
19:38 r618 i couldnt teach
19:39 r618 id proabably erupt in anger that they do not understand basic things :)
19:39 micr0 I had to introduce the concept of data visualisation... and this week we are 'taking a break' and going to design interfaces using the bare conductive board
19:41 micr0 r618: its going much slower than I anticipated, but thats due to a combination of a) me underpreparing b) trying to figure out the balance of inspiration + introducing practical knowledge and a little of c) many students not knowing why they are there
19:42 micr0 check out http://github.com/jedahan/pucd2035d/issues to see some of the sketches
19:42 workergnome joined #openframeworks
19:42 micr0 day 1 was awesome though - they wrote a 'human program', sol lewitt inspired instructions
19:42 micr0 some of the pictures came out amazing
19:42 admsyn classic :)
19:43 r618 those sketches are good - id be interested if i was a student
19:43 micr0 http://instagram.com/p/sSVD-uRxA7 and http://instagram.com/p/sSU-5zRxA0
19:43 micr0 I think i'm learning - introduce one or two very small functions/commands/concepts, and just let them be creative with it
19:44 micr0 instead of overwhelming them with all the amazing stuff they can do, and showing all the directions
19:44 r618 yeah
19:44 micr0 they were very creative with just jquery $('.selector').text() and $('.img').attr('src','YOURPICHERE')
19:44 micr0 or say, ellipse(mouseX,mouseY,50,50)
19:45 r618 ugh, jquery :)
19:45 micr0 i need to visit canada soon
19:46 micr0 heh actually some web browsers embed $() even if jquery isn't loaded on the page O_O_O_O_O_O_O
19:46 micr0 at least in the console
19:48 r618 eh might be, i only know that jquery exists -- always considered manipulatimg DOM selectors as terrible hacking )
19:48 admsyn haha
19:48 debu joined #openframeworks
19:50 micr0 hypermedia is an interesting promise. I wonder if we revert to basics once vr/ar gets more ubiqitous, as those sci-fi books were what the authors of the internet were reading
19:50 micr0 oh god that sentence has bad parsing
19:51 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
20:01 r618 well im not following indeed , but concerning the vr / ar -- same old gimmicks in new clothes :)
20:03 GuidovanPossum website defacing, I never got to do that in any of my classes micr0
20:03 r618 i dont like the notion of being 'in' the vr or the whole cyberspace humbug
20:07 neue joined #openframeworks
20:12 r618 GuidovanPossum: indeed!
20:36 workergnome joined #openframeworks
20:39 micr0 trying to find a loose collection of exercises that appeal to different kinds of people
20:40 micr0 r618: have you seen the three.js + oculus demo?
20:40 r618 no, it runs in the browser ?
20:40 micr0 its really raw, has a ton of issues, but omg the pure glee i get watching that
20:40 micr0 makes me want to try it
20:40 r618 heh
20:41 micr0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-7J5OaSag
20:41 r618 do they render webpages ?
20:41 r618 oh
20:41 r618 i thought about actual navigating the web
20:41 micr0 its just a three.js sandbox, but the idea of typing, and livecoding objects around you...just seems powerful
20:41 micr0 not a new idea
20:41 micr0 not a great execution
20:41 micr0 but doesn't matter, i think it hits the one right spot, which is wonder
20:41 micr0 maybe. we'll see when I try it for real
20:42 r618 yeha looks rad
20:45 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
20:48 r618 id try to browse the web with it.... even shopping at amazon might be an experience )
20:49 r618 only if webpages rendered in 3d
20:50 r618 there was some plugin to FF which rendered css layers in 3d - but afaik didnt have active / clickable elements
21:02 micr0 i think thats actually built into FF right now
21:11 w4ffles_ joined #openframeworks
21:22 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
21:31 r618 possible
21:33 r618 "You cannot teach beginners top-down programming, because they don't know which end is up" <- haha seems relevant :)
21:37 micr0 nice
21:43 Pisuke joined #openframeworks
21:47 r618 i need to do something similar to - http://vimeo.com/3576457 - i think its based on ofxMSAFluid - thats ok, only im having hard time to do the dripping of liquid at the end of the stroke
21:47 r618 dont know how to go about it
21:48 r618 its really nicely done in the video
21:54 r618 if anybodys got any clue id be grateful
22:15 vade joined #openframeworks
22:33 admsyn r618: it looks like pretty normal particle systemy stuff
22:33 admsyn so velocity takes gravity into account etc
22:34 admsyn and probably there's a bit of fluid sim in there
22:34 admsyn I think really the trick is that he has like a million particles going on
22:34 admsyn IIRC body paint has some custom openCL thing to get as many particle as possible going on
22:35 admsyn also I'm pretty sure there's not really "strokes" just silhouettes + motion / optical flow
22:43 micr0 joined #openframeworks
22:45 pizthewiz @admsyn: Did you do the Resonate early bird thing again?
22:45 admsyn yepps
22:45 admsyn actually last year I was a holdout, but right on top of it this time
22:46 admsyn they haven't announced the 3 day workshops yet as far as I can tell but I'd be totally up for that again
22:47 admsyn really made the flight etc worth it since it's so cheap to actually *be* there, just getting there that's a little laborious
22:49 admsyn pizthewiz: are you thinking of going?
22:52 pizthewiz Yeah, I'd really like to… the speaker lineup looks pretty awesome
22:52 pizthewiz Lots of OF commtiters too
22:52 admsyn yepp, looking forward to @tgfrerer's :p
22:53 pizthewiz Arturo, Zach, FIELD…
22:54 neue joined #openframeworks
22:54 pizthewiz Really looking foward to the European speakers / work as a contrast for the more North American leaning Eyeo
22:55 admsyn yeah on top of that I've found resonate's been getting more fun whereas eyeo's been getting kinda not-fun over the last 3 years
22:55 admsyn but ymmv of course, resonate's way more art-y
22:56 r618 admsyn: yeah, the motion is probably based on the opt. flow, will check some particle systems ; was thinking that the whole installation is fluid sim based ( wtz ofxMSAFluid ), but the particle syst. is probably a good idea
22:56 r618 will see what can be done with openCL since ive never used it before
22:58 admsyn it's probably overkill to go openCL off the bat
22:58 admsyn fwiw
22:58 pizthewiz Sweet, I kinda like the art-leaning bit too
22:58 * pizthewiz fires up the Resonate page
23:00 admsyn r618: you could probably get very close with just a simple optical flow w/ farneback-based flow + a basic particle system that takes gravity into account
23:01 admsyn randomly making like 1/100 particles have a very long lifetime so they drip straight down
23:01 admsyn then after that polish with maybe a fluid sim if necessary
23:01 admsyn honestly maybe just a little perlin wobble in their path might be enough
23:01 r618 yes, will try , good suggestions
23:04 r618 i was almost sure that the drippings are fluid based, but will try out particles definitely
23:05 r618 thanks for lookin into it!
23:05 admsyn np, I remember trying to approximate body paint in like 2010 :)
23:14 r618 heh
23:14 r618 a client wants it ; they see various videos on the internets and immediately want it ]
23:18 gabrielstuff joined #openframeworks
23:53 admsyn joined #openframeworks

| Channels | #openframeworks index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary