Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2014-11-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:47 groolot does Christopher Baker's here ?
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08:17 luminor im just rendering a bunch of opengl circles on the screen and my mac pro is lagging
08:17 luminor how do i work out where the code is inefficient?
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11:26 dang`r`us luminor, glGetError is a start
11:27 dang`r`us also Instruments has a GL profiler methinks
11:33 luminor thanks ill look into those. expect this will become more important as i move into the next dimension....
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13:36 vdonnefort Hi!
13:36 vdonnefort is it possible du modify the version from the "about" menu for OF apps?
13:36 vdonnefort the default seems to be 0.01
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14:46 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/ Oct 12 meetup notes https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/IRC-Meetup-October-12-2014
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17:46 mattfelsen Hii
17:46 Constantine Hello :)
17:46 mattfelsen Before the meetup starts I wanted to ask an unrelated question...does anyone know who moderates of-dev? I've requested to subscribe but it's been in limbo for a few weeks I think
17:47 kylemcd theo watson does
17:47 kylemcd constantine, did you get into of-dev?
17:47 Constantine no not yet
17:47 kylemcd i’ll ping theo right now for both of you
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17:49 mattfelsen Thanks, Kyle ????
17:50 kylemcd he just said “sure thing!” so if you don’t get subscribed in the next day ping me again :)
17:50 mattfelsen Sounds good
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17:53 nongio hi all
17:53 kylemcd hi nongio
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17:54 mattfelsen @kyle just got the approval email, thanks again :)
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17:55 Constantine_ Yep, me too. Thanks!
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17:55 mattfelsen Man, I haven't been on IRC in a long, long time. I feel like I should bring back my old nick, @freshrocka
17:56 laserpilot @laserpilot 4ever
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17:57 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/ Nov 2 Meetup notes: https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/IRC-Meetup-November-2-1024
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17:59 kylemcd hey everyone, i’m going to be 5 minutes late — be right back
17:59 kylemcd thanks admsyn for changing the title
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18:00 workergnome_ Howdy y'all.
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18:00 admsyn hey workergnome_
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18:14 kylemcd back!
18:15 HalfdanJ Hey
18:15 nongio ready
18:15 admsyn hey kylemcd
18:16 kylemcd hi ofzach :)
18:16 ofzach hey hey ~
18:16 kylemcd let’s do a quick roll call, if you’re here just say ‘hi’
18:16 mikewesthad hi
18:16 mattfelsen ‘hi’
18:16 laserpilot hey
18:16 Constantine hi
18:16 HalfdanJ hi
18:17 kylemcd great. i have a feeling there are 3-4 more people paying less attention :) but that’s fine, this is good
18:17 cristianReynaga hi
18:17 kylemcd let’s get started
18:17 kylemcd 1. survey
18:18 kylemcd it’s all translated and ready, we’re thinking of releasing it at the same time as 0.9.0
18:18 kylemcd just wanted to check if anyone had any final thoughts, or different ideas about when / how to send it out?
18:18 admsyn given that 3 is suggesting waiting til february, is it worth waiting that long?
18:19 kylemcd yeah that’s a good question
18:19 admsyn *waiting til feb for 0.9.0
18:19 kylemcd well maybe these three things are hard to break apart, so let’s go a slightly different direction
18:20 kylemcd we have three big upcoming things: 0.9.0, survey, ofBook
18:20 kylemcd the survey would be good to pair with one of them
18:20 kylemcd but not necessary — let’s say if neither come out in another month, we release the survey anyway?
18:21 nongio +1
18:21 ofzach I was planning on a soft release of the book — getting it up with a “work in progress” flag
18:21 ofzach it’s pretty close (and looks like a book now!), but some chapters feel really rough / need more attention
18:21 mattfelsen I think that makes sense. People may pay less attention to their inboxes in Dec as a lead up to the holidays?
18:21 kylemcd ofzach sounds great! in the next month, or?
18:22 ofzach yes def.. it’s really close, just need to fix the rebuild on OF server
18:22 admsyn maybe staggered a bit with ofBook? So like the survey goes up a little earlier, whatever page is "home" for the book has a "by the way we're doing this survey…." link and then later on we get the survey results :)
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18:22 kylemcd yes, holidays is generally slower, followed by some intense activity in early january
18:22 mikewesthad Does the survey ask any ofBook related questions?
18:22 workergnome_ (Hi--watching, but on my phone, so not very responsive.
18:23 kylemcd ok i’m going to tell caitlin we’re aiming for latest one month release tfor the survey
18:23 kylemcd mikewesthad no
18:23 kylemcd here’s the current survey for reference (in english) https://docs.google.com/a/kylemcdonald.net/forms/d/1bOqDDfGdvM_I3ZJKze2g77YRMrth_21S278rSLgA7JU/viewform
18:23 HalfdanJ what are the distribution channels of the survey?
18:24 kylemcd halfdanj: twitter, mailing list, of-dev, forum
18:24 kylemcd +website
18:24 kylemcd everything we have access to
18:24 HalfdanJ may i propose also to add a banner on ofxaddons.com?
18:24 kylemcd definitely
18:24 kylemcd very smart
18:24 kylemcd they will all link to a post on the OF blog that has each language represented there
18:25 kylemcd ofzach if the WIP ofBook goes up before Dec 1 get in contact w caitlin and we’ll orchestrate the survey release earlier
18:25 ofzach yep will do
18:25 kylemcd great
18:25 kylemcd next
18:25 kylemcd 2. multilingual ofSite
18:25 Constantine does survey have russian language?
18:26 kylemcd constantine — no! we would love help if you have a moment
18:26 Constantine yes, I have
18:26 kylemcd let me put you in contact with caitlin and we’ll make it happen :)
18:26 kylemcd thank you for volunteering!
18:26 Constantine what should I do to start translating it?
18:27 kylemcd constantine i just sent the email, caitlin will send you a google doc link and you can edit it in there
18:27 workergnome_ Multilingual site--i sent out a brief spec, and I haven't heard any objections, so I am going to play with the pelican software and see if it will work.
18:28 kylemcd this was the spec https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/Multilingual-ofSite-Requirements-JbMJjdLj4yv
18:28 ofzach what is pelican ?
18:28 workergnome_ Python-based blog software. Supports multilingual sites in markdown.
18:28 kylemcd https://github.com/getpelican/pelican
18:28 workergnome_ Arturo suggested it.
18:29 ofzach oh cool
18:29 kylemcd arturo mentions it in his oct 14 email on the “multilingual of.cc” thread
18:29 workergnome_ And I agree--it
18:29 workergnome_ Looks like the current best Python option.
18:29 ofzach vs jeckyll ?  (for non python) ?
18:29 workergnome_ That's the other option.
18:30 workergnome_ I may spin up both and see which will work better.
18:30 kylemcd also, just to reiterate, there’s a ton of options in this space, but i think whatever workergnome_ uses to solve all the problems in the spec he wrote — whatever tools might be used — will be completely welcome
18:30 HalfdanJ with jekyll the site hosting could be moved to github
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18:30 Apleton Hello
18:30 kylemcd hi apleton, welcome to the monthly OF meeting :)
18:31 Apleton Has someone experience with iOS + OF ?
18:31 workergnome_ Either way, they're both comparable to within 90%, and the content will migrate well between them both.
18:32 ofzach sounds good — the spec for translation looks great
18:32 HalfdanJ i have a question, are we moving towards that all documentation is written in markdown externally from the code, or are we also moving towards having inline documentation in the header files that then generate html files online?
18:32 kylemcd if someone has iOS/OF experience, could you DM apleton? apleton — if no one DMs you, also try http://forum.openframeworks.cc
18:32 workergnome_ That is an excellent, messy question.
18:33 ofzach @halfdanj — I think the current system mixes three things — markdown, doxygen and discus
18:33 kylemcd let’s talk about documentation for 10 min or so
18:34 workergnome_ Ok
18:34 kylemcd of those 3 things, is it going in one direction?
18:35 workergnome_ My guess is all three are needed.
18:35 kylemcd (workergnome_ unless you have anything else to add about jekyll vs pelican, but it sounds like the next step is just to experiment with both)
18:35 workergnome_ Yup. Will do.
18:35 HalfdanJ My personal experience is that the inline documentation is awesome. I love when i can option-click on a of function or class and inline in xcode (or ther IDE´s) can see the documentation for the function.
18:35 HalfdanJ but i’m unsure what that means regarding to multilingual support
18:36 workergnome_ Right. But it's really hard (and inappropriate) to do images and extensive extensive examples inline.
18:36 kylemcd yes, personally i find that the doxygen trumps everything — with the only exception being longform tutorials / description
18:36 kylemcd and that disqus is good for telling us what is missing or wrong, but actually creates more problems/work than it helps solve
18:37 workergnome_ The other problem is that it means documentation updates only propagate with of releases. Which may no be a big problem.
18:37 kylemcd every time someone posts on disqus i get an email, and it’s almost exclusively things that should be on the forum or should just be changes to the content on github
18:37 ofzach yeah those discuss also feel very disconnected, since they are at such a granular level
18:37 kylemcd workergnome_ right, but not a problem if we find a good way to minimize release cycles… (an ongoing issue)
18:38 HalfdanJ So maybe a solution should be that the docs are “handwritten” in markdown staticly with nice images etc, and under that doxygen is embedded for the function descriptions?
18:38 workergnome_ Which is close to what we have now.
18:38 HalfdanJ is it? Arent the function defintions handwritten in markdown?
18:39 workergnome_ That too.
18:39 ofzach that seems reasonable to me, I do think there are situations where images might be really helpful for functions however…
18:39 workergnome_ They need to be migrated at some pont.
18:39 HalfdanJ @workergnome_ would like (outisde this chat) to understand that process better
18:40 ofzach one thing that I think will be really helpful is improving the main page http://openframeworks.cc/documentation/
18:40 kylemcd someone mentioned to me recently that doxygen allows for referencing external code, like our example code
18:40 workergnome_ Cool. Email me (david@workergnome.com) and i'll chat abot it.
18:40 ofzach maybe using some collapse / expand and reorganizing based on importance / category
18:40 workergnome_ Yup.
18:40 kylemcd ofzach sounds like an ofaddons “sort by popularity” thing :)
18:40 ofzach it’s crazy to have things like ofConePrimitive near the top
18:41 ofzach haha
18:41 HalfdanJ hehe
18:41 kylemcd definitely
18:41 workergnome_ I think the order is 1 migrate to multilangual
18:41 workergnome_ 2 move some basic content around
18:41 workergnome_ 3 tackle documentation as a spec.
18:41 kylemcd yeah
18:42 ofzach (hide functions and collapse looks more approachable, btw)
18:42 kylemcd i think the good thing is we’ve tried a lot of things at this point, and now we can simplify and focus on things that we know work well
18:42 kylemcd but we’ll get to it after 1+2
18:43 workergnome_ And 3 is what i care most about, so motivation is there.
18:43 kylemcd :)
18:43 kylemcd oh also regarding documentation only coming out with releases, there is an alternative — which is that we can continuously publish the documentation from the source
18:43 kylemcd and then have an indicator like “introduced with 0.9.0” and/or “updated with 0.8.4”
18:44 workergnome_ Good idea.
18:44 kylemcd so maybe you see a new method / API that isn’t available in the current release, but it’s upcoming — and the documentation is still as good as possible
18:44 HalfdanJ i agree
18:44 kylemcd any other documentation or multilingual thoughts?
18:44 mikewesthad +1 to that
18:44 workergnome_ Still would like access to the old wiki t port comtemt.
18:45 mattfelsen @kylemc Do you mean re-build the site/docs from source on commits to master?
18:45 HalfdanJ i think the ofBook should be part of the /documentation, so a easy place to go to when you look for docs
18:45 kylemcd let me ping theo right now
18:45 nongio would be cool to have a kind of filter to check the api for a specific version
18:45 workergnome_ Cool. And +1 to ofBook once released.
18:45 kylemcd halfdanj & nongio can you add this to the agenda / outline as a note?
18:46 kylemcd mattfelsen yes that’s what i meant — just rebuild the docs
18:46 Constantine @nongio yes, like on http://docs.gl/
18:46 nongio @Constantine exactly
18:47 mattfelsen I think having the docs reference things that are in master but not a release could be hairy...about all the loadMovie/loadImage -> load() changes that just happened, for example, could be really confusing
18:48 Constantine yea, maybe docs should continue to consider only releases
18:48 mattfelsen Especially because I imagine most people who use but don't work on OF probably work off a release, not the git repo
18:48 kylemcd yeah that’s true
18:48 Constantine yep
18:49 kylemcd perhaps the best solution is short release cycles… let’s figure it out when we get closer :)
18:49 workergnome_ I don't know enough yet to make good suggestions--let's keep it on the agenda for next month, as well.
18:49 HalfdanJ That just means we have to be better to document right away :)
18:49 workergnome_ I'll try to do some rrsearch and have some better info.
18:49 workergnome_ I thimk chris baker has some ideas, as well.
18:49 kylemcd ok let’s get onto the hard part :)
18:50 kylemcd 4. 0.9.0
18:50 Constantine YEAH
18:51 Constantine I tested new DirectShow  player by Theo yesterday - it doesn't work for mingw-w64 so far...
18:54 Constantine Also, I think it's possible to support MinGW-w64 compiler officially for 0.9.0 since it's working already with just a few tweaks in openFramewoks and some dependency libs.
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18:56 Constantine Have you guys considered to support 64 bit mingw in 0.9.0?
18:56 Constantine Hi, Arturo!
18:56 arturo hey!
18:56 ofzach hi arturo, we seemed to have lost kyle
18:57 nongio hi arturo
18:57 ofzach he brought up 0.9 and the room got silent :)
18:57 arturo :)
18:57 arturo i just gone through the logs, couldn't connect before
18:58 arturo i think 0.9 is almost there we mostly need to finish the apothecary formulas for windows and merge them
18:58 arturo then go through the issues, i've moved things that are not critical to the next release
18:59 Constantine has anyone tested DirectShow player with mingw?
19:00 arturo no i think theo was looking into that
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19:00 arturo btw, about the site while kyle comes back, i think we should cut the amount of text we have a lot.
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19:01 kylemcd hah, i thought everyone was just silent for 10 minutes after i mentioned 0.9.0
19:01 ofzach +1 agreed — we have alot of text
19:01 kylemcd turns out i just got disconnected :)
19:02 mikewesthad And if we're talking about the site again, I've noticed that beginners get lost when classes - like of3dGraphics - have no associated doc
19:02 arturo yeah, i don't think anybody is really reading all that text and it just makes the browsing more confusing
19:02 kylemcd agreed — doing a roubdup of the text is one of the things workergnome_ has been looking into
19:02 mikewesthad All the doc is within functions rather than a general description
19:03 kylemcd just read the logs
19:03 kylemcd arturo, i was suggesting we push back release by 3 months
19:03 kylemcd we definitely need to push it back because 10 days isn’t enough for what we have
19:04 kylemcd but what do you think is a good new RC date?
19:04 arturo 3 months seem to much but lets see
19:04 marcocanc hey!
19:04 arturo i think by the end of the year could be a good date, everyone has more time and we could finish whatever is missing by then
19:05 kylemcd let’s say two months then
19:05 kylemcd january 12
19:05 arturo yeah perfect
19:05 kylemcd january is a good time for pushes
19:05 nongio hi @marcocanc
19:05 kylemcd we almost wrote ofBook last january! ;)
19:06 admsyn haha
19:06 kylemcd january 12 2015 0.9.0
19:06 kylemcd changed
19:06 kylemcd overall, the work on 0.9.0 has been amazing
19:07 kylemcd this is feeling almost like 007 in terms of how much is changing
19:07 nongio @arturo about the PR, I pinged NickHardeman on github without luck. here: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pull/3167
19:07 arturo yeah i know, i'll ping him again later
19:08 kylemcd i had another question for everyone about release cycles in general
19:08 workergnome_ (Gotta drop--i'll read the transcript in a bit, and if anyone has input, send me an email, too.)
19:08 arturo i'm not sure why that have changed and every other primitive has that same texture mapping so changing it only for the box seems not very correct
19:08 marcocanc I'm getting into creative coding and have decided to go for OF. I have previously tried out Cinder, but I like OF more so far.Anyway, I was wondering what the main differences are betwee
19:08 arturo ciao david
19:08 marcocanc n the two*
19:08 workergnome_ Later--i'll be in touch.
19:09 ofzach I have to run also  !  ciao everyone…..
19:09 ofzach left #openframeworks
19:09 kylemcd does it make sense to limit the number of issues & PRs in a milestone?
19:09 kylemcd for future releases
19:10 admsyn IMO it would yeah
19:10 nongio we can try… sometimes issues are just duplicates
19:12 kylemcd marcocanc cinder and OF vary in how they use C++, and how the code base evolves over time
19:12 Constantine instead of limiting issues you can close them as soon as the author didn't replies after certain amount of time
19:12 mattfelsen What is the current process like? Something either gets assigned to the current milestone, or if it's not critical & it's late in the cycle it gets assigned to the next?
19:13 kylemcd the current process is: critical & regression issues are always slated for the current milestone, and new issues may not be milestoned to the current one
19:13 mattfelsen If that's the case, maybe creating a roadmap further out, say 3 releases out, could help spread things out and help keep focus?
19:13 kylemcd we have a few releases out lined up, but i don’t think we’ve done it granularly enough
19:14 tgfrerer_ +1 for a roadmap ( hi guys =) )
19:14 kylemcd i think limiting the number of issues to maybe 10-20 would help us focus
19:14 Constantine hi @tgfrerer !
19:15 kylemcd marcocanc: also, OF was originally developed by artists learning to code, cinder was developed by coders learning to work with artists. in the end you can do mostly the same things, but you might have to think about it a little differently.
19:15 Constantine @kylemcd what if issue #21 is critical too?
19:16 kylemcd constantine i think critical/regressions would not be included in the count
19:16 Constantine ok :)
19:16 kylemcd but for example 0.9.1 has 52 issues right now, 5 closed
19:17 Constantine how many critical ones?
19:17 kylemcd there should be 0 critical in 0.9.1
19:17 kylemcd all critical should be in 0.9.0
19:17 kylemcd but i think we can take the 52 and spread it out into 3 or 4 smaller releases
19:18 kylemcd i just want to know if this sounds crazy, or if it sounds reasonable :)
19:18 admsyn I think it's a good idea, and more so if they could be seperated into groups that made some sort of sense
19:19 mattfelsen What about rotating a focus for each release? 0.9.1 is audio, 0.9.2 is video, 0.9.3 is 3d, etc? So that new issues can be pinned to different targets?
19:19 arturo sounds good
19:19 mattfelsen @adamsyn +1
19:19 kylemcd yeah the only thing about groups is that if someone is specially good at that group, but they’re not available, it holds up the cycle timing
19:20 kylemcd which is why some projects use multi-branch approaches
19:20 arturo minor releases are mostly bug fixes so i'm not sure that grouping by featuer would make a lot of sense
19:20 admsyn mattfelsen: I feel like the trick with that, though, is that all the OF contributors aren't evenly spread out amongst the sections
19:20 kylemcd arturo that’s what i’m feeling too
19:20 admsyn yeah what kylemcd said :)
19:20 kylemcd ok i’m going to see if i can divide things up a little and work towards this direction
19:20 kylemcd let’s try to keep our milestones small, and use that to encourage shorter release cycles
19:21 marcocanc interesting, kylemcd! I like OF's approach more!
19:21 kylemcd because the alternative is to set dates, but i think it’s a bad idea
19:21 arturo also i'm not sure that having lots of small releases is good per se, it might get to a point where people just don't update if there's a new version every month
19:22 arturo and giving support in the forums... it's always easier if most people are using the same release or at least a couple of them
19:22 kylemcd arturo, possibly… but i think we should deal with that problem when we have it
19:22 arturo right now most people are using latest, 0.8 or some 0.7.4
19:22 nongio another problem will be testing each small release
19:22 arturo if we have 0.9 till 0.9.12 lets say it can get pretty messy
19:22 arturo that too
19:23 admsyn arturo: in my experience, the vast majority of people using e.g. 0.7.4 are people that are stuck with some addon or old codebase, not because they can't be bothered
19:23 Constantine also ofxaddons won't keep up with fast release cycles...
19:23 kylemcd i’m imagining one release every two to three months
19:25 nongio @Contantine what do you mean?
19:25 kylemcd constantine what do you mean about ofxaddons?
19:25 Constantine addons made by users
19:25 kylemcd you mean the addons will not be compatible?
19:26 kylemcd that’s possible, but only if we make huge api changes all the time. if we’re doing things right, we will have API changes at the same rate
19:26 nongio the addons actually are not tagged to a specific OF version
19:26 mikewesthad I've got to take off - take care all
19:26 nongio bye
19:27 Constantine @nongio mine are tagged :) for example OF 0.9.0 introduces c++11 which I use a lot in code...
19:27 nongio good maybe we can talk about this in the next point about OFX
19:27 kylemcd yes
19:28 kylemcd one last thought
19:28 kylemcd OF has been on github for almost 4 years now
19:28 kylemcd 3 years and 11 months i think
19:28 kylemcd and we’ve closed 1470 issues
19:28 kylemcd that’s 1470/(365*4) = 1.00 issues closed per day :)
19:28 admsyn waaat
19:29 kylemcd it might be a little faster or slower from day to day — but we do 1 issue per day on average
19:29 admsyn interesting
19:29 kylemcd not all those issues are milestoned
19:29 HalfdanJ wow
19:29 mattfelsen ????????????
19:30 nongio this mean 3 months == 90 issues ?
19:30 kylemcd right, in theory
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19:30 nongio interesting
19:31 kylemcd i still think 2 months, 30 issues is about the right target
19:31 kylemcd because of the way things are related to each other
19:31 kylemcd but let’s say we’re aiming for 2-3 months per release, and trying to keep a cap on milestones — definitely less than 50, probably closer to 20-30 issues per milestone
19:32 kylemcd any other thoughts on 0.9.0 or issues etc add to the outline/agenda please :)
19:32 kylemcd next!
19:32 kylemcd (and last)
19:32 kylemcd 5. OFX Addon Manager CLI Tool
19:32 Constantine what's that?
19:32 kylemcd halfdanj has been working on a tool
19:33 kylemcd that’s like npm or apt or pip
19:33 kylemcd but it’s for OF addons
19:33 tgfrerer_ sounds fantastic!
19:33 kylemcd https://github.com/halfdanj/ofx
19:33 kylemcd the main question is here:
19:33 kylemcd https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/New-ofApp-description-file-specification-PkQ7CzG41vb
19:33 HalfdanJ its building on some other peoples take on it. It currently supports downloading addons from ofxaddons.com, and automaticly download dependency addons
19:34 kylemcd the question is mainly about adding a new standard for inter-addon dependencies
19:34 Constantine oh guys, I want to bring an important issue regarding addons - it seems there's currently no way to detect target architecture of libraries which users distribute with addons
19:34 HalfdanJ also i’ve started working on creating a project dependency file that is more verbose then the addon.make file for defining what addons a depenencies with versions attached
19:35 HalfdanJ @constantine that leads to the next feature im implementing in ofx, automaticly call apothecary for building libs in addons
19:36 kylemcd Constantine i think this is handled via the libs/ folder structure
19:36 Constantine but some users distribute already compiled libraries
19:36 HalfdanJ so for example, i’m currently doing a ofxLibtins that uses the libtins library. I’m building the library with apothecary via cmake. Calling $ ofx install ofxlibtins, clones the addon and calls apothecary install ofxlibtins
19:36 Constantine @kyle yea, but I have no way to check if the library is for x32 or x64 bit architecture
19:36 kylemcd e.g., ofxOpenCv/libs/opencv/lib/android|ios|osx|…
19:36 mattfelsen It'd be nice to have a flag for ofx and/or a setting in the "package.son" file to specify whether the addons should be cloned vs. added as a submodule
19:37 kylemcd ah i understand, i think the idea is to handle that with the project generator? or use fat libs? i don’t know enough about that
19:37 HalfdanJ could we take the 32/64 bit talk afterwards?
19:38 Constantine np
19:38 nongio about the main question… +1 for JSON can be shared with html like ofxaddons
19:38 HalfdanJ mattfelsen, i’m not sure i understand
19:38 kylemcd hah, my bad — yes halfdanj
19:39 mattfelsen So currently ofx will install into your OF_ROOT/addons folder, right?
19:39 HalfdanJ yes
19:41 admsyn what's a good addon to test out ofx w/ HalfdanJ? Just trying to wrap my head around it :)
19:41 cristianReynaga guys, I was reading everything (my first time in the monthly meetup). I gotta go. bye
19:41 mattfelsen Generally each project I'll work on has OF as a submodule inside the project's root folder
19:41 admsyn by cristianReynaga!
19:41 HalfdanJ many. ofxTimeline has a lot of dependencies that works
19:41 mattfelsen And I'll add an addon as a submodule instead of cloning it, so that it's source doesn't come into the project's repo
19:41 kylemcd thanks for coming cristianReynaga!
19:42 mattfelsen Is that making sense?
19:42 HalfdanJ makes sense, i thought about that adodns also could be in a supfolder to a projet (that is how nodejs handles it). Many addons are just very biug, and its a big paradime shift
19:43 HalfdanJ i think i would prefer that the tool had one way of describing addon depenencies to not make it to complicated
19:43 HalfdanJ i’m very much looking at how nodejs does it because i think they have solved it really really well
19:43 HalfdanJ i think my main question is, do anybody have any hard feelings for the addon.make file, or can i push forward on proposing a new standard file?
19:44 kylemcd i think the only thing stopping you from changing addons.make is that it’s used by makefiles right now
19:44 mattfelsen Yea totally, just saying that once the dependency is understood (this addon @ this version/tag/commit) it could be added via `git submodule add` instead of `git clone`
19:44 Constantine as i understand currently addon.make have all needed dependencies, right?
19:44 kylemcd so whatever addons.make becomes, it has to be able to be parsed by the makefiles
19:44 HalfdanJ ah
19:44 mattfelsen @Constantine only the add-on's name, not its version number
19:44 kylemcd arturo do you have some thoughts on this
19:46 mattfelsen There's the possibility that since this dependency file would have more information in it, the addons.make could be generated from it? But that may be overly/unnecessarily complex
19:46 HalfdanJ it could definetly, but its a ungly step
19:46 kylemcd ah, also, i just realize we’re talking about two different things
19:46 nongio it can be something like the Gemfile / Gemfile.lock
19:46 kylemcd there’s addons.make which has per-project info about what addons are used
19:46 HalfdanJ yes
19:46 kylemcd then there is addon_config.mk which has per-addon info about what an addon needs/does/contains
19:47 HalfdanJ addon_config.mk is already a lot more verbose. It can contain depenecny stuff and all sorts of info
19:47 HalfdanJ and can be expanded
19:47 HalfdanJ its the addons.make that is super static
19:47 mattfelsen @kylemcd Yep. One dependency file, that works for both add ons and projects, would be really nice. Node uses this paradigm
19:47 HalfdanJ but i don’t know how its being used by makefiles
19:48 kylemcd hmm… who did the most work on the makefiles? is it bakercp and arturo?
19:48 mattfelsen Is addo_config.mk read by anything in the Makefile system? Or just the PG & OFPlugin?
19:48 tgfrerer_ addon_config.mk is used by the makefile system.
19:50 Constantine one note on submodules, in my experience they're little slow to clone first time... as any other git repositories they pull all the history, and if user added some libraries it may hang for a few minutes...
19:50 HalfdanJ i will try and ping bakercp and arturo on this outside irc..
19:50 mattfelsen @Constantine same as a clone, no? You can use --depth 1 when cloning and adding submodules
19:51 Constantine does --depth 1 works for submodules?
19:52 mattfelsen Just throwing out ideas here...do comments work in add ons.make? Maybe version information for add ons can be added as comment lines that are parsed by ofx?
19:52 mattfelsen I will admit that even I don't like this idea :)
19:52 mattfelsen @Constantine I believe so. I think git-submodule ends up calling git-clone anyway
19:53 HalfdanJ but if the tool can look for dependency versions (sha) in the dependency file, then we dont need submodules, since doing a ofx install will take take of installing addons, and there dependencies, and there libraries that needs to be build with apothecary.
19:53 kylemcd halfdanj ok it looks like they’re not available right now, sorry..
19:53 HalfdanJ doing it with submodules makes it harder to automate apothecary
19:53 HalfdanJ yep kylemcd
19:53 kylemcd but my personal feeling is that what you’re describing is great, and if you can implement it with minimal changes to existing files, then we can integrate it successfully
19:54 HalfdanJ cool. will move forward with it
19:54 HalfdanJ thx
19:54 kylemcd meaning: it might be better to use a custom format instead of yaml or json, maybe just tab delimited, unless you can get someone who knows the makefile system better on board with a new format
19:55 HalfdanJ makes sense
19:55 kylemcd the project generator is still in overhaul for the last year, so that’s less of an issue, but the makefile system is heavily used, so we need to respect it more :)
19:55 kylemcd any final thoughts from anyone?
19:55 nongio about the PG
19:55 admsyn looks interesting!
19:55 mattfelsen @HalfdanJ I'm happy to help test :) We're trying to tackle related problems at Local Projects at the moment so the timing is right
19:55 nongio is someone working on it?
19:56 HalfdanJ cool to hear mattfelsen!
19:56 kylemcd nongio technically the PG is zach’s reponsibility right now
19:56 nongio ok, after the ofbook release I’ll ping him
19:57 kylemcd great — i’m sure he would also give you an intro to the PG if you want to spend some time working on it
19:57 nongio cool, becouse things are moving forward and it seems that the PG is getting old
19:57 kylemcd absolutely
19:58 kylemcd i’m primarily using OFPlugin
19:58 mattfelsen Who was working on the web/node version of PG?
19:58 kylemcd mattfelsen the PG frontend was someone else.. one sec
19:59 nongio me
19:59 kylemcd oh, nongio :)
19:59 mattfelsen Oh. Hi :)
19:59 kylemcd it says “Riccardo” in your emails
19:59 kylemcd so i was confused
19:59 nongio yes, I’m Riccardo please to meet you all :)
19:59 kylemcd i still haven’t met you yet ;)
20:00 kylemcd ok thanks everyone — i’m going to leave the official meeting there, meeting adjourned :)
20:00 HalfdanJ see you! Have a nice sunday
20:01 admsyn now I just have to take a look at the sound PR that garnered 33 comments :D
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20:02 kylemcd :) thanks admsyn
20:03 kylemcd you’re making it awesome
20:03 nongio bye all! dinner time here
20:03 admsyn bye nongio
20:04 mattfelsen @adamsyn Your code from FITC with the embedded WebView was really helpful in mixing in Cocoa code. I've been trying to get an MKMapView in OF, so thats for that :)
20:06 mattfelsen er, @admsyn. Auto correct is killing me today, though I think that one was actually my own typo
20:08 admsyn sweet, nice to hear it's working for you mattfelsen :)
20:08 admsyn I'm actually taking a stab at doing an updated version with the fancy new Yosemite web view so maybe there'll be some new features that come with that
20:09 mattfelsen Yea, the whole header include thing was tricky
20:09 mattfelsen Cool
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