Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2015-01-21

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Time Nick Message
00:33 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
01:15 pizthewiz admsyn: Do you recall what the minimum Xcode version was we were going to require in OF-0.9.0?
01:15 pizthewiz I thought for some reason it was 5, but… ?
01:16 admsyn I don't remember if that was brought up.. would it have been in IRC? I can have a look
01:18 admsyn btw the travis thing is just a temporary thing while (I think) halfdanj was setting something up, but travis started testing PRs against github in the process
01:18 admsyn or something
01:18 admsyn it's temporary, basically
01:21 pizthewiz Ahh ok, I was thinking the PR failed the automated tests or something
01:21 pizthewiz I skimmed the last team meeting notes and was worried I missed something
01:22 admsyn I think travis is building documentation, but github's interpreting it as part of a continuous integration workflow…again "or something" :)
01:23 admsyn yeah I'm doing a search through logs back til 2013 and not seeing much that talks about it, unless I'm not using the right terms
01:23 admsyn maybe an email
01:23 admsyn I mean, also entirely possible it's never really been brought up
01:24 admsyn I think Xcode versions might be more of an implicit thing just based on how available any given version of Xcode is based on the App Store etc
01:24 pizthewiz Bugger, I just did a quick search through issues and didn't see it mentioned there either, I seem to remember bakercp shooting Xcode 5 out there
01:24 admsyn yeah as a minimum?
01:24 admsyn I mean that makes a lot of sense
01:26 pizthewiz If we do go with 5, we might as well say 5.1.1 since it has the same OS requirements as 5.0.0
01:27 pizthewiz Actually, I don't think arm64 was supported until 5.0 so there is that too.
01:28 pizthewiz Though… 5.1.1 isn't even 10 months old yet
01:31 admsyn I think the doing frameworks from the Project.xcconfig isn't really going to solve the issue in #3290 , assuming I'm interpreting it right
01:32 admsyn since it's part of the project, and the issue happens when OF changes the framework requirements and the project doesn't change itself to accomodate
01:32 admsyn so if OF suddenly decides that Foo.framework is necessary to build as part of the app's target, the app is going to update itself….somehow
01:32 admsyn and I don't think doing it in an .xcconfig would do it?
01:33 admsyn unless the .xcconfig is importing from a shared .xcconfig from within OF?
01:33 admsyn I guess that'd work?
01:34 pizthewiz Yeah, I was thinking we'd have some shared base app xcconfig in the OF repo that had all the frameworks
01:34 pizthewiz I guess kinda like make does now
01:34 admsyn let me take a look, I feel like that's kinda happening already to some extent
01:34 pizthewiz Ok cool
01:35 pizthewiz I was just thinking if possible, it would be cool to abstract that from users a bit.
01:35 admsyn yeah CoreOF.xcconfig is being pulled in by the template Project.xcconfig
01:35 pizthewiz Sure they can add what ever frameworks they want, but if we could pick up the slack and make sure the stuff OF needs gets linked…
01:35 admsyn is it as simple as a build setting, though, or do you need to e.g. add it to build phases and such
01:35 pizthewiz Nah, the 3 frameworks don't need to be copied, just linked
01:36 admsyn makes sense
01:36 pizthewiz Only non-system frameworks get copied right?
01:37 pizthewiz Though I have found the whole dynamic vs static framework thing pretty annoying on iOS 7/8
01:37 pizthewiz (third party frameworks)
01:37 admsyn yeah, I was thinking just the linking build phase but surely that's just a visualization of an actual build setting
01:39 pizthewiz I think we can plop it right into OTHER_LDFLAGS
01:40 admsyn is the xcconfig spec actually spelled out anywhere?
01:40 admsyn e.g. can you do a += or are you always doing = ?
01:40 admsyn n/m found it
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01:48 admsyn oh weird, so CoreOF.xcconfig is only for use by projects
01:48 admsyn and OF has Debug.xcconfig and Release.xcconfig for itself
01:49 admsyn bit of a weird name to choose I suppose
01:49 admsyn ok I think this'll work
01:49 admsyn oh nevermind, Debug.xcconfig pulls in Shared.xcconfig which pulls in CoreOF.xcconfig
01:49 admsyn so edits to CoreOF.xcconfig will affect OF itself
01:50 admsyn …which might get weird
01:50 * admsyn tries it
01:53 admsyn the fuck is AGL
01:54 admsyn you know if that's a Carbon thing @pizthewiz?
01:54 admsyn that can probably go..
01:57 admsyn yeah I just dropped this in CoreOF.xcconfig and appended it to OTHER_LDFLAGS, removed all the frameworks from my project and it runs
01:57 admsyn http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=PVqKunVB
02:02 pizthewiz Yeah, AGL was like Apple's OpenGL lib, GLUT might use it still :0\
02:02 admsyn ah good point
02:02 pizthewiz Looks pretty clean to me
02:02 pizthewiz In theory we wouldn't need to link to QuickTime though right?
02:02 admsyn well this bodes well, the only thing that's weirding me out is if I take out e.g. CoreVideo then everything still works fine, even after a clean / rebuild
02:03 admsyn yeah at  the moment I'm just literally copy-pasting the linker command that was generated
02:03 pizthewiz Heh
02:03 pizthewiz Yeah, I've seen situations where it seems like something else is pulling in frameworks to link to magically
02:04 pizthewiz I think Cinder right now is using AVFoundation.framework but isn't linking to QuartzCore which I don't really understand either
02:04 admsyn ok taking out everything most definitely makes it explode
02:04 admsyn so it's definitely "working"
02:04 pizthewiz Maybe some dark magic from precompiled headers?
02:04 admsyn I guess what worries me then is that doing this might have subtle effect like some random projects all of a sudden not getting some symbols
02:05 admsyn but I mean, as-is it's literally the same thing
02:05 admsyn I just can't make it break right :)
02:06 pizthewiz I guess if frameworks were being removed it is possible
02:06 pizthewiz Maybe they were depending on something in their particular config
02:07 admsyn I wish there was some way to make it cleaner than just typing out -framework whatever -framework otherthing over and over but whatevs I guess
02:07 pizthewiz Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the formatting
02:08 pizthewiz It seems like a text'ish serialization of the project settings directly though
02:08 pizthewiz You can copy and paste them out/in of Xcode too which can be helpful
02:10 admsyn oh you know what, there's one hangup with this
02:11 admsyn Project.xcconfig sets OTHER_LD_FLAGS, that's where I appended OF_CORE_FRAMEWORKS
02:11 admsyn and given the nature of xcconfig files I think that makes it un-settable from CoreOF.xcconfig
02:12 admsyn which I suppose means that all projects that exist right now don't benefit from this, only new ones
02:12 admsyn which I guess isn't the end of the world but doesn't actually solve the problem I think?
02:12 admsyn atleast the github issue
02:13 pizthewiz Well ????
02:13 admsyn yeah
02:13 pizthewiz I forgot that xcconfig files have dubious cascading
02:14 admsyn which is to say they don't :x
02:14 pizthewiz You have to create new settings and append them to others right
02:14 pizthewiz You can't use $(inherited) for the same setting from a parent xcconfig right?
02:15 admsyn yeah I think inherited is just for things up the target heirarchy (e.g. targets inherit settings from projects)
02:15 admsyn nothing to do with inheriting from other files / previous values
02:18 admsyn alright I'm going to see if I can scare up some weird ways this breaks, but it looks pretty solid
02:27 admsyn wow it drops the size of the project.pbxproj by like 85% :0
02:28 pizthewiz Awesome, and it centralizes some values which is nice
02:28 admsyn yeah actually it makes the project look quite a bit leaner in Xcode
02:29 admsyn http://i.imgur.com/WcSoUyf.png
02:30 admsyn just need to shuttle all those random files lying around into groups and it'll be all neat and tidy :3
02:36 pizthewiz Is CoreOF.xcconfig used by OF itself or just apps?
02:36 admsyn yes it is
02:36 pizthewiz Interesting, both?
02:36 admsyn pulled in via Shared.xcconfig
02:36 admsyn yepp
02:37 admsyn in OF it's debug scheme <- Debug.xcconfig <- Shared.xcconfig <- CoreOF.xcconfig
02:37 admsyn and the app is just all schemes <- CoreOF.xcconfig
02:38 admsyn so moving everything to CoreOF.xcconfig keeps the frameworks in sync automatically, instead of manually keeping a list in the OF xcode project and the template xcode project
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02:41 admsyn lol @ GCC_MODEL_TUNING G5
02:41 admsyn how long's that been kicking around
02:45 pizthewiz Carrying a bit of legacy there, for sure
02:45 pizthewiz Xcode 2 maybe?
02:45 pizthewiz At least we don't have that GC setting anymore
02:46 pizthewiz Oh I saw Unity's Xcode Manipulation API the other day and thought of you: http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/09/16/getting-started-as-a-contributor-to-our-open-source-projects/
02:46 admsyn as weird as it sounds the only thing that's really off-putting to me about this change is that I can't make it break reliably
02:46 admsyn by e.g. NOT setting the framework link settings
02:46 admsyn aw :_)
02:46 admsyn interesting though
02:48 admsyn a C# project to modify xcode projects…
02:48 pizthewiz Also funny since they have/use a C# > CPP dynamic re-compiler too
02:48 pizthewiz It is their official arm64 support path in fact
02:49 pizthewiz Well, once released… they too are running up against the 1 Feb deadline
02:49 admsyn there will be 4 tabs written, no more no less. 4 tabs is the amount of tabs to write. 5 is too many. 3 may be written, if it is shortly followed by another, totalling 4...
02:49 admsyn https://bitbucket.org/Unity-Technologies/xcodeapi/src/f62fa74f23a7a0a38ede6ee8e31e497ac9702d74/PBXObjects.cs?at=stable#cl-298
02:50 admsyn xcode project format is so finicky
02:52 admsyn ok I think I might be over-thinking this
02:52 admsyn the OF project itself wouldn't have to link against any frameworks, right?
02:52 admsyn just the app?
02:52 admsyn as in when making the openframeworks static lib
02:53 admsyn because I can't seem to get that to not-work
02:53 pizthewiz In theory the static lib would have to link to those frameworks too no?
02:54 admsyn I thought so, but it just works even if I remove the settings and clean / build
02:58 pizthewiz If you look at the whole build log, it isn't linking to those frameworks some other way?
02:59 admsyn uh… how do you do that <_< >_>
02:59 admsyn I only ever see the raw build commands when it fails
02:59 admsyn I guess I could just make it fail
03:00 admsyn oh n/m I got it
03:01 admsyn yeah unless I'm blind  there's no mention of e.g. AVFoundation in here http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=bZbD5EjK
03:04 admsyn and I can write a proper OF app that access the webcam and stuff without missing symbols
03:04 admsyn black magic, I tell ya
03:05 admsyn so maybe I'll make this into a PR and ping you, @pizthewiz for some more eyes? I might just be missing something
03:05 pizthewiz Oh isn't that an Xcode 6 feature, the automatic framework thing?
03:06 admsyn oh
03:06 pizthewiz I thought that was for apps though
03:06 admsyn ok then
03:06 pizthewiz Interesting it doesn't work on apps that link to static libs that would need them
03:07 admsyn I'm not finding any mention of that in the "what's new in Xcode 6" article fwiw
03:08 admsyn oh here we go http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10385331/why-dont-ios-framework-dependencies-need-to-be-explicitly-linked-to-a-static-li
03:10 pizthewiz Oh, this isn't new at all then
03:11 admsyn so at least it's not scary weird voodoo
03:12 admsyn oh I think I found what you're thinking of http://stackoverflow.com/a/24952243/704596
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03:14 admsyn and it is the default / YES in OF
03:14 admsyn but if I set it to NO it still works, which makes sense given the previous answer
03:15 pizthewiz Yeah, this bit must not be acting then
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13:18 FuriouZz Anyone here?
13:20 FuriouZz I ask my question and maybe I'll have an answer.
13:23 FuriouZz I discover the support of emscripten in openFrameworks. Really good news. I started a new project from the generator. But the build is not working because of "EGL/egl.h" is not found. I make some research and OSX don't seem to have this. I hear some people said to use NSOpenGL to manage the window and not EGL.
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13:24 FuriouZz I can try to use NSOpenGL, but EGL doesn't really work on OSX ?
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20:22 admsyn oh shit eyeo tickets were on sale today huh
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20:30 jvcleave admsyn -yeah
20:35 jvcleave admsyn: a lot of people bail close to the event - might even be cheaper in that way
20:42 admsyn good point
20:46 admsyn maybe I could do with missing one, I've been to the last 3..
20:52 jvcleave i felt that way last year as well
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21:03 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
21:22 pizthewiz I think the organizers suggested people get on the waitlist, it sounds like they have some official ticket transfer thing too
21:24 jvcleave yeah - I think eventbrite blows up if so many transactions are done in a short period of time
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22:47 RIch Hello
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