Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2015-02-08

| Channels | #openframeworks index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
02:29 vade joined #openframeworks
02:47 ilbot3 joined #openframeworks
02:47 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
02:50 vade joined #openframeworks
04:09 vade joined #openframeworks
04:42 lukaszw joined #openframeworks
05:02 oneironaut joined #openframeworks
05:09 sebllll joined #openframeworks
06:39 notjosh joined #openframeworks
07:28 mhashmi joined #openframeworks
10:06 marcocanc joined #openframeworks
10:24 debuuu joined #openframeworks
11:11 w4ffles joined #openframeworks
11:33 sebllll_ joined #openframeworks
12:11 kikko_fr joined #openframeworks
12:59 vade joined #openframeworks
14:09 marcocanc joined #openframeworks
14:23 ar_tama joined #openframeworks
14:33 kikko_fr joined #openframeworks
14:57 fuerstP joined #openframeworks
15:08 marcocanc joined #openframeworks
15:21 marcocanc joined #openframeworks
15:47 tgfrerer_ nick tgfrerer
16:02 kikko_fr joined #openframeworks
16:26 admsyn joined #openframeworks
16:29 debuuu joined #openframeworks
16:43 vade joined #openframeworks
16:45 ar_tama joined #openframeworks
16:52 synesthete joined #openframeworks
16:53 kylemcd joined #openframeworks
17:00 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/ Agenda: https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/IRC-Meetup-February-8-2015
17:00 kylemcd anyone around? :)
17:04 kritzikratzi joined #openframeworks
17:09 mattfelsen joined #openframeworks
17:11 kylemcd hi matt
17:12 kylemcd i think it’s just you and me atm
17:12 mattfelsen Hey Kyle
17:12 mattfelsen Aren't we an hour early?
17:12 kylemcd oh hah hah
17:12 kylemcd yeah
17:12 mattfelsen :D
17:12 admsyn joined #openframeworks
17:13 kylemcd hi adam
17:13 kylemcd how was the grammys
17:16 caitlin_ joined #openframeworks
17:18 kylemcd hi caitlin_
17:20 caitlin_ hey!
17:22 kylemcd mattfelsen & caitlin_ how was the OF meetup at LP?
17:23 caitlin_ it was good - i didn't get a headcount but i think there were 20-something people
17:23 mattfelsen joined #openframeworks
17:23 kylemcd awesome
17:23 caitlin_ a bunch of people from the meetup.com nyc OF group came so there was a good blend of people i hadn't met before
17:23 caitlin_ and lots of awesome stuff shown by LP people from their projects recently
17:24 mattfelsen Sorry, timed out.
17:24 mattfelsen I was surprised this time that nobody brought anything to share
17:24 mattfelsen Though the upside was that meant there was time for 4 talks from LP
17:25 mattfelsen (I was initially concerned about LP taking all the time for presentations)
17:25 caitlin_ yeah i think that's partly because the other meetup group that merged in, isn't really structured in that way (it's more workshoppy and less show-and-tell, from what i've heard)
17:25 mattfelsen Yea that makes sense
17:25 caitlin_ and partly because everyone was kind of looking forward to seeing the LP things :)
17:26 caitlin_ i think it worked well though, everyone who talked was working on different projects or different aspects of projects so it felt pretty evenly distributed anyway
17:26 kylemcd that’s great
17:27 caitlin_ mattfelsen, do you have the link to that project structure proposal that we were talking about at the meetup?
17:27 mattfelsen Yep it's here http://local-projects.github.io
17:27 caitlin_ er maybe proposal is the wrong word -- but the diagram of a project structure that ended up working well for you guys
17:27 caitlin_ awesome
17:28 caitlin_ this was something we talked about as a good example of a sort of custom project structure that made it way easier for a multi-person team to collaborate easily without running into version issues
17:28 kylemcd oh very cool
17:28 caitlin_ the general discussion was that this could be something other people could definitely contribute to, or learn from... i think sundar said he was interested in posting it on github so that people could make pull requests with their own suggestions
17:30 kylemcd interesting to keep OF as a submodule instead of keeping everything inside the root folder as usual
17:31 kylemcd i guess this makes it easier to collab, but harder for people who aren’t working on this already to just clone the repo and run the project files
17:31 kylemcd without also cloning OF itself
17:31 kylemcd but then again, if they don’t use the right version of OF, they’ll probably run into problems anyway
17:33 mattfelsen One of the nice things it facilitates is a central Apps folder for a project, regardless of whether those are written in OF, Cinder, node, python, etc.
17:34 kylemcd yeah definitely
17:34 kylemcd i run into that often where i have an OF project folder that also has processing apps in it and it feels weird
17:34 mattfelsen Haha exactly
17:35 mattfelsen Though tbh I think that was a minot consideration, if it was one at all, for this structure
17:35 mattfelsen minor*
17:35 kylemcd well, this is good to see… sometimes i wonder about the value of having the ability to generate projects with the project generator with nonstandard locations
17:35 kylemcd it seems like in general nonstandard locations are an edge case or cause confusion, but here it’s being used to great effect
17:37 mattfelsen Yea, I love being able to use the devPG to make projects that work with this setup. It won't pick up the addons but it's not a big deal since we can use OFPlugin for that
17:38 mattfelsen Previously, another dev at LP (who is mostly behind this structure) had created an empty project file and hand-edited all the paths to OF
17:39 kylemcd hmm the standard project generator should be able to make things work in nonstandard locations already i thought
17:40 mattfelsen I thought so too. There was some issue we ran into that I can't quite remember..
17:43 mattfelsen Oh, I think I know. It was that the devPG lets you choose platforms
17:44 Kojo joined #openframeworks
17:45 Kojo Hello
17:45 mattfelsen But the paths seem to work fine. I just tested out a clean project and it seemed to find OF & compile happily
17:46 mattfelsen Hi @Kojo
17:47 kylemcd hey kojo good to have you :)
17:47 Kojo Thanks. Am I late?
17:48 Kojo thought this would be at 10am PST
17:49 caitlin_ no i think we're starting in about 10 mins! 1PM EST
17:49 Kojo Oh okay, cool :)
17:51 underdoeg joined #openframeworks
17:54 Kojo Hi @underdoeg
17:57 ofTheo joined #openframeworks
17:58 admsyn joined #openframeworks
17:59 admsyn Hey all
17:59 kylemcd hey!
18:00 kylemcd admsyn could, unrelated to the meeting, could you take a quick look at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GjgjQZCHTcOD3cT9OFSl0AZ1nhfYwwvxTl5L4OJE6qA/edit?usp=sharing
18:00 kylemcd and in the sound section, highlight anything in light red that’s already been done
18:00 kylemcd (or imminent with 0.9.0)
18:00 admsyn Sure I'll try, onsite at a thing and on my phone atm
18:01 kylemcd ah cool thanks
18:03 kylemcd since ofTheo is already here we could get started right away but i’m going to wait 5 more minutes
18:03 ofTheo hey peeps!
18:04 admsyn Hey ofTheo
18:07 admsyn_ joined #openframeworks
18:09 kylemcd let’s do this :)
18:09 kylemcd i don’t think anyone in the “projects” section is here to give an update except caitlin_
18:09 kylemcd nongio ofzach workergnome halfdanj dantheman are all absent
18:10 kylemcd so we’ll skip to caitlin
18:10 caitlin_ yeah i think dan is on site too?
18:10 kylemcd i think so with admsyn
18:10 admsyn Yeah he's beside me
18:10 kylemcd and ofzach
18:10 kylemcd oh no ofzach
18:10 kylemcd he’s somewhere else
18:10 kylemcd anyway
18:11 kylemcd caitlin_ wrote up this great article! http://blog.openframeworks.cc/post/108919370109/2014-survey-results
18:11 caitlin_ yeah thanks everyone for your feedback in the community survey!
18:11 kylemcd my main question was just: is there anything we should do differently next time?
18:12 kylemcd and what can we change about OF given what we learned?
18:12 ofTheo it was amazing to look through this. I was surprised but the word clouds at the end we're really helpful.
18:12 jvcleave ask mac users if they like visual studio ;)
18:12 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
18:12 admsyn *likes vs*
18:12 jvcleave i do too
18:12 ofTheo a lot of it points to documentation
18:12 synesthete linux users too for VS
18:13 caitlin_ yeah i think in the future it would be helpful to break down the OS vs IDE questions even more clearly
18:13 caitlin_ it'll be a little more tedious for survey-takers, but will help with cases where people say they use windows and linux and multiple dev environments
18:14 caitlin_ as far as associating which IDEs are with which OS use
18:14 caitlin_ theo - yes, for sure, i think the word clouds kind of reveal this but the individual long-form answers definitely have a lot of comments about documentation
18:15 smallfly joined #openframeworks
18:15 caitlin_ there are also a lot of people indicating that they'd be interested in helping out, but don't know how
18:16 caitlin_ i feel like organizing some short-term highly-structured documentation push (i know this has already happened in the past, but maybe opening it up to more people / getting directly in touch with people who've indicated interest) could be helpful
18:16 kylemcd that could be great, i think it’s happened to a small extent before
18:17 ofTheo yes - this would be great
18:17 ofTheo if we had an easy way to find all the non documented functions then it could be fairly easy to split up and assign
18:17 kylemcd i think the right way to do it is to directly reach out to people who said they were interested in contributing
18:17 mattfelsen_ joined #openframeworks
18:18 caitlin_ i'm actually sort of interested to pull out the responses from people who are interested in getting involved, and sorting by location :)
18:18 kylemcd then organize an IRC or video chat session with all of them before we dive in together
18:18 admsyn Also the shader tutorial is out of date now iirc
18:18 kylemcd caitlin_ that would be great
18:18 caitlin_ because doing those short term pushes in person is so much nicer sometimes
18:18 admsyn And +1 for short term push weekend hangout thing
18:18 kylemcd caitlin_ i think a few people (the core + me) should spend some more time looking at those long form responses too
18:19 kylemcd i think you already shared the raw doc with me, but if you could share it with zach theo and arturo too that’d be great
18:19 ofTheo thats a really nice idea caitlin_
18:19 ofTheo I like the idea of making it more face to face when possible
18:19 caitlin_ yeah i can share with them too, definitely
18:21 caitlin_ something not specifically documentation related that i learned from the survey is that there are a lot of micro-communities out there, learning or using OF, that i personally didn't have much awareness of
18:21 caitlin_ like high schools around the US that are teaching it
18:21 caitlin_ and some higher education places that i wasn't aware of
18:22 caitlin_ i was chatting with angela (who teaches at sarah lawrence) the other night at the meetup, and they're starting to teach it as the primary tool in their digital lab
18:22 kylemcd maybe it’s time for an of-ed mailing list
18:22 caitlin_ i'm still thinking about this one but i feel like there's a lot of opportunity for letting those communities share teaching resources or support each other in some way
18:22 caitlin_ yeah, that might be one way to do it
18:23 ofTheo If there was a way for us to get a better idea of who is using it that would be amazing.  GEOIP lookup from our logs?
18:23 ofTheo probably fairly easy to see when we get a lot of downloads from a single IP
18:23 kylemcd i vote for a server ping in the build script
18:24 kylemcd then we can have a counter on the website with a geoviz “someone just compiled an OF project!"
18:24 ofTheo haha
18:24 caitlin_ right, like 30 downloads at once in the start of september from one IP ;)
18:24 ofTheo exactly!
18:24 jvcleave yeah - I always thought it would be cool to have a place for people to post their workshop examples for others to use/build on - maybe preso notes as well
18:25 kylemcd i remember we tried to analyze the downloads once and it was hard because it seemed like it might be a lot of bots
18:25 kylemcd jvcleave this was the goal of an of-tutorials site that roxlu and jefftimesten were working on at one point
18:25 admsyn joined #openframeworks
18:25 caitlin_ i think also just directly getting in touch with some of these survey respondents who gave contact info might be insightful -- i'd love to actually ask them what resources would be most helpful, instead of making assumptions, but i think there are a lot of good possibilities
18:25 jvcleave we kinda did some of that with the of-rpi group just because many things are so specialized https://github.com/openFrameworks-arm
18:26 kylemcd caitlin_ that would be amazing if you could take the lead on that
18:26 caitlin_ yeah definitely - if it becomes a bigger project i might ask for more of an ed-support team but i'm happy to at least start by getting in touch with people :)
18:27 kylemcd perfect
18:27 kylemcd i wrote in the notes: “caitlin will get in touch with people teaching OF and report back with ideas about how we can help support and connect them”
18:27 caitlin_ because (one other note on the survey) i think there's also a big trend where students don't feel like "part" of the community, and aren't responding or really keeping active with it
18:28 caitlin_ the ratio of students to teachers in the survey is super skewed and pretty much exemplifies this
18:28 caitlin_ and that has a lot to do with the massive gender divide as well
18:28 kylemcd definitely. in the beginning zach worked with students… like theo ;) … to build OF
18:28 caitlin_ because i think in most academic environments there's a much more balanced ratio, but not a lot of encouragement for women to feel like they're part of the larger community
18:29 caitlin_ so having some kind of infrastructure around these sub-communities could help at least as a starting point
18:29 kylemcd yeah, i’d like to make sure we’re doing everything we can do get around this
18:30 ofTheo on that subject this is a really good podcast episode http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding
18:30 kylemcd maybe one thing is just encouraging more people to organize local OF meetups
18:31 ofTheo CMU actually was one of the first universities to really actively address the issue and the gender gap there is almost none ( according to the show )
18:31 caitlin_ yes - organizing more meetups would be great, and also illuminating the meetups that are happening so that they're encouraged to continue or can communicate more broadly
18:31 ofTheo sorry correct link - http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/10/17/356944145/episode-576-when-women-stopped-coding
18:32 ofTheo I think thats a super good point though - what happens outside the academic environment in terms of encouragement for women
18:33 kylemcd caitlin_ yeah maybe we just need to flip everything from the “community” page to be on the front page of the openframeworks.cc site
18:33 caitlin_ but yeah - i'll start getting in touch with people in different places and let you guys know what comes of it
18:34 kylemcd great
18:34 kylemcd any other thoughts on the survey?
18:34 caitlin_ yeah i know david (workergnome) is adding a bunch of the previously discussed community stuff into the site along with the general language support etc -- so i think that'll be part of it
18:34 kylemcd awesome
18:34 caitlin_ that's it from me
18:35 kylemcd great, next!
18:35 kylemcd i just wanted to get feedback on two things that are starting up
18:36 kylemcd 1: the “of-partner” program, we’re trying to work with studios to support OF with work directly on OF
18:37 kylemcd 2: working on mentoring women from code liberation, also just starting this discussion
18:37 kylemcd the of-partner program is mostly getting worked out on the of-partners mailing list right now
18:38 andyinabox joined #openframeworks
18:38 kylemcd and the code lib mentorship is happening slowly by brainstorming with phoenix and other folks
18:39 kylemcd but in my mind, they’re part of something bigger, which is trying to understand how we can structure parts of OF to serve and incorporate the people who want to learn & contribute more
18:39 kylemcd maybe like caitlin_ was saying about “sub-communities”
18:39 kylemcd so i was just curious if anyone had questions or ideas
18:41 Kojo Would partners be limited to businesses?
18:42 kylemcd right now the of-partners program is limited to a few studios
18:42 ofTheo it could be universities, labs, etc too though
18:42 caitlin_ i haven't been closely following the partner program so maybe this is redundant -- but (kind of in line with the previous discussion) it would be great to have some more "official" support for people who are doing documentation rather than just dev
18:42 kylemcd we’ve had more informal partnerships with universities in the past
18:42 ofTheo essentially places where people could work a % of their time more formally on OF
18:43 kylemcd but like ofTheo says i think the structure we’re setting up is about working with places to donate employee time to OF
18:43 ofTheo definately doesn't have to be commercial studios only though
18:43 ofTheo and not just code
18:43 ofTheo documentation or other contributions could be a good possibility too
18:44 ofTheo actually would be amazing to have 2-3 people working part time on docs
18:44 kylemcd caitlin_ do you mean in the context of the of-partner program or more generally about people who are doing non-dev work?
18:45 caitlin_ yeah dedicated time on docs & tutorials (obviously in addition to everything else) would be fantastic
18:45 caitlin_ @kylemcd well... both :)
18:45 kylemcd :) great, i’m in agreement
18:45 caitlin_ but i don't really see them as different things
18:45 caitlin_ i mean - the latter could just be a part of the former
18:45 kylemcd right
18:45 ofTheo +1000 :)
18:46 kylemcd i think something i’m noticing is that we are developing the necessity for more independent groups working on OF
18:47 kylemcd and that these groups need some higher level organization
18:47 kylemcd and the only organization that has existed up to this point is around core code dev
18:48 ofTheo right
18:48 kylemcd but not we have enough people and interest to create independent groups for things like of-partners, mentorship, documentation
18:48 kylemcd because you can’t have 300 people (students, teachers, developers, writers, all kinds of folks) all contributing in a completely flat structure
18:48 ofTheo right
18:48 ofTheo splinter cells! ;)
18:48 kylemcd the difficulty is that we need more people to take “managment” positions, which we haven’t really asked for before
18:49 kylemcd so if we have a “formal structure” for supporting documentation, we need someone to organize that, and NOT actually work on documentation
18:50 kylemcd to ONLY work on the organizing of people who are actually working on documentation
18:50 caitlin_ right - i think the ofBook is a good example of this, actually
18:50 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
18:50 kylemcd absolutely, especially with rachel as PM on that
18:50 caitlin_ having a team of editors and managers who were not the chapter-writers
18:50 caitlin_ yeah, and rachel wrangling everyone
18:51 kylemcd while ofBook has it’s ups and downs in terms of how productive it’s been over the year, the structure is going in the right direction
18:52 kylemcd actually, i wonder if the mailing list approach is a big part of what helps
18:53 kylemcd once you have a mailing list it’s possible to see who is and isn’t involved, and have any kind of discussion rather than a code-centric one that github forces you into
18:53 admsyn I think it did help in that regard
18:54 ofTheo I think a ML helps! also getting the right people and having some people who are spearheading it makes a big difference
18:54 kylemcd maybe something like of-ed meets of-doc as one mailing list
18:55 ofTheo that could be good
18:55 kylemcd a place for teachers and students to come together and talk about making OF better with non-code dev
18:55 ofTheo esp as there is a lot of crossover there
18:55 ofTheo yeah
18:56 kylemcd caitlin_ if you have other thoughts on what would help in terms of “formal support” for non-code dev lmk :)
18:56 caitlin_ yeah, i'll think about it (and hopefully also get responses back from some other people) and we can chat more
18:57 kylemcd awesome
18:57 kylemcd let’s wrap up with the big one which may or may not require much discussion given that i think there are only a few people here today...
18:58 kylemcd 0.9.0
18:58 kylemcd last month we decided to drop the RC deadline, wait a month, and re-asses now
18:59 kylemcd now a month has passed
18:59 kylemcd we have a few months of backwards movement as we realized 0.9.0 was bigger than we expected
18:59 kylemcd but this month we’re making progress again
18:59 ofTheo I think the biggest thing is still the 64bit libs
18:59 ofTheo especially on windows
18:59 kylemcd a number of big things happened with video playback, and work on apothecary forumulas
19:00 ofTheo danioli has been making really good progress on iOS and OS X
19:00 admsyn Looks like the apothecary stuff is coming together now too, which would be a big clearing house wrt issue numbers
19:00 kylemcd yeah danoli3
19:00 ofTheo my feeling now is to try and get PRs that help move us forward especially on apothecary merged in
19:00 admsyn +1
19:00 kylemcd two questions right now:
19:01 kylemcd 1. how can we distribute the work on 0.9.0 so it comes together smoothly / efficiently?
19:01 kylemcd 2. can we pick a reasonable deadline for release, or should we wait another month?
19:02 kylemcd for more details, here’s the breakdown from the hackpad:
19:02 kylemcd - we have 7 PRs https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+milestone%3A0.9.0+is%3Apr
19:02 kylemcd - we have 34 open issues https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?q=is%3Aopen+milestone%3A0.9.0+is%3Aissue
19:03 kylemcd - we have 12 issues with no one assigned https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?q=is%3Aopen+milestone%3A0.9.0+no%3Aassignee+is%3Aissue
19:05 ofTheo my feeling is that once the apothecary stuff is done we should then do a big push with a deadline
19:05 pizthewiz I personally think we need a target date to act as our north star. Work seems to be transitioning from the explore and investigate phases to execute and the larger areas identified (apothecary formulas) that'll unblock a fair amount of the remaining work.
19:05 ofTheo and we should just maybe focus on helping close issues / PRs relating to apothecary
19:05 smallfly joined #openframeworks
19:06 kylemcd ofTheo do you mean deadline like whatever isn’t done by that point is not included?
19:06 admsyn_ joined #openframeworks
19:06 ofTheo I think we need to get to a point where we can build and run OF in 64bit
19:07 kylemcd and then once we’re at that point we pick a deadline?
19:07 pizthewiz Do we have a target date for that ;0)
19:07 ofTheo once we can do that the other issues should be fairly easy to fix and at the same time we can be checking for regressions with all the new library updates etc.
19:07 kylemcd or you mean that’s the only thing we are trying to do?
19:08 ofTheo I personally think pushing on the libs stuff now will be the biggest help
19:08 pizthewiz danoli3 has a fork that builds arm64 and tgfrerer had a fork that builds x86_64 no?
19:08 ofTheo yup
19:08 ofTheo we just need the apothecary scripts in and the new libs
19:08 pizthewiz I would agree that focusing on apothecary/libs is a good move forward
19:09 pizthewiz It'll also flush out any new issues once the actual 64-bit support is realized on each supported platform
19:09 ofTheo right exactly!
19:09 kylemcd also, pizthewiz: no target date right now
19:09 ofTheo apothecary has been fairly slow - but I think they'll be a lot of good energy once we're about to build OF 64bit
19:09 ofTheo *about->able
19:10 pizthewiz Without a target date, any sense of urgency is self-imposed though no? We can't even shoot out a rough idea of where we'd want to be?
19:10 ofTheo it might be good to check in with Christopher and Danioli and see what is left with the 64bit stuff
19:10 jvcleave Anyone try Windows 10 and OF yet?
19:11 ofTheo and what they need help with
19:11 Kojo When is that iOS deadline again?
19:11 ofTheo Feb 6th?
19:11 ofTheo so already now :)
19:11 Kojo oh, haha
19:11 pizthewiz 01 Feb 2015 was the deadline for all *NEW* applications to include an arm64 slice
19:11 pizthewiz 01 Jun 2015 is the deadline for all *UPDATES* to include an arm64 slice
19:12 Kojo Oh, I see
19:12 pizthewiz So existing apps have a 4 month grace period
19:13 pizthewiz tgfrerer's 64-bit PR is waiting on apothecary fixes for Cairo #3624 and an updated/apothecary'd GLFW #3621
19:13 kylemcd here’s my suggestion: we set a new RC deadline of mid-May for 0.9.0.
19:14 ofTheo sounds good to me
19:14 Kojo I'm pretty much a noob, but I've been following the 64bit and C++11 stuff. Is it still the feeling that Those changes will break a lot of stuff?
19:14 ofTheo they shouldn't
19:14 vade joined #openframeworks
19:14 ofTheo I think an apothecary push weekend could be really helpful
19:14 Kojo Okay. I was just thinking that if that's the case, that would be another reason to reallly prioritize them
19:14 bilderbuchi joined #openframeworks
19:15 pizthewiz For OS X, the 32-bit/i386 slice continues to build without C++11 and uses the older libstdc++ to be compatible with existing binaries in addons
19:15 kylemcd mid-may 0.9.0 would be faster than we’ve been working at this point, but it’s based on the assumption that many issues are closer to being finished than before.
19:15 pizthewiz Sounds good to me, it provides a target and measuring stick at least
19:16 lmccart joined #openframeworks
19:16 kylemcd OF development deadlines are usually pushed back 1-3 times and the actual time to do something is usually 2-3x as long as we first expect
19:17 lmccart left #openframeworks
19:17 lmccart joined #openframeworks
19:17 kylemcd but i read this as meaning that we have high expectations for ourselves and a lot of good energy and excitement
19:18 kylemcd the question still remains: mid-may is still faster than we’ve been working — how do we distribute this work?
19:18 kylemcd for windows 64-bit i suggest we follow up on the offer from Local Projects to look into this, since it seems they have experience and desire to contribute there
19:18 w4ffles joined #openframeworks
19:19 ofTheo yes!
19:19 ofTheo that would be really helpful
19:19 ofTheo I spent 2 days fighting cmake on windows with opencv and it totally sapped the life force out of me
19:19 bilderbuchi joined #openframeworks
19:19 ofTheo need fresh blood
19:19 ofTheo :)
19:20 kylemcd great. then let’s talk about what else needs to get done.
19:20 pizthewiz Do we have a rough idea of what 0.9.1 would include and the timing? Just thinking about the Windows 10 question jvcleave brought up…
19:20 mattfelsen @kylemcd I can check in about windows 64bit to see what's up if that's helpful
19:21 kylemcd mattfelsen please do. are you on of-partners? i was just about to send an email there reaching out.
19:21 notjosh I'm coming at this pretty blind, but I'm an iOS/Mac dev. if you need a hand with 64bit/blah, I'm happy to help (as I'm already bumping into that - but I don't know the 0.9.0/apothecary/64bit intertanglement)
19:21 mattfelsen Yep, I am. I think Sundar is as well
19:21 kylemcd mattfelsen: great, i’ll still send a short note just to have a thread open
19:21 kylemcd notjosh: that’d be great!
19:22 kylemcd short explanation is that apothecary is a collection of shell scripts we use to build libraries
19:22 notjosh ah :)
19:22 mattfelsen @kylemc Sounds good
19:22 notjosh that already clears up 90% of my issues then ;)
19:22 kylemcd these scripts need to be updated (and in some cases, written) for 64-bit compilation
19:22 andyinabox left #openframeworks
19:23 kylemcd once we have those libraries built from these scripts for all the platforms we cover, we are most of the way towards releasing 0.9.0
19:24 notjosh let's chat about it afterward, and where I can help - don't want to disrupt too much here
19:24 kylemcd no worries
19:24 ofTheo any help would be great!
19:25 ofTheo we can bring you up to speed on the of-dev list
19:25 kylemcd pizthewiz i think you added the link to 3506 https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/3506
19:25 kylemcd can you say a little about what you were thinking there
19:26 pizthewiz Yup! That issue was created by bakercp to document what platforms and tools we supported in 0.9.0
19:26 pizthewiz It doesn't seem to be entirely accurate, but I think it would be good to formalize some our intent for 0.9.0
19:28 kylemcd which parts seem inaccurate? i’ve lost track of the OSX minimum version at this point
19:28 pizthewiz I'm most interested in documenting minimum Xcode/VS versions since C++11 support doesn't always go very far back
19:29 bilderbuchi hey all
19:29 kikko_fr hey all, sorry to interrupt - is this progress table up to date ? https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/blob/master/scripts/apothecary/PROGRESS.md
19:29 kylemcd hi bilderbuchi
19:29 kylemcd kikko_fr that is an excellent question :)
19:30 pizthewiz kikko_fr: It doesn't appear to be, I think quite a bit of work has been done since this was last edited :0\
19:30 pizthewiz ofTheo: wasn't there another issue floating around that had a more accurate rundown?
19:30 ofTheo https://github.com/openframeworks/apothecary/issues/39
19:31 ofTheo yeah I think we need to update both.
19:31 kikko_fr ha ok thks
19:31 kylemcd this is even older though
19:31 ofTheo yeah I think we could ask for a status update on the dev list
19:31 kylemcd and iirc apothecary is maintained in the OF core now? this repo should probably be deleted or at least have a notice?
19:32 kylemcd https://github.com/openframeworks/apothecary/issues/42
19:32 pizthewiz I think it stuck around just for the issues
19:33 kylemcd hmm i can’t find a master list anywhere that’s like an up to date version of that progress.md
19:33 bilderbuchi we wanted to wait with the del until all the remaining issues are resolved
19:34 bilderbuchi we could probably go through the remaining ones, close outdated ones and move the rest over into the OF tracker
19:34 bilderbuchi and then deactivate the reop
19:35 kylemcd bilderbuchi i think that would be more effective
19:35 kylemcd right now it feels like we’ve got a lot spread all over the place and nothing is up to date
19:37 bilderbuchi probably @bakercp knows most about the current status, as he opened most of the issues? and/or danoli3?
19:38 kylemcd yeah i’ll send an email to of-dev asking them to help with this before we go further
19:38 kylemcd back to the issue pizthewiz mentioned, i want to bring up this https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pull/3543
19:39 pizthewiz Right, so for https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/3506 it would be great if each team could update their intent, I believe we are going to support iOS 5+ and the OS X side is a little murky.
19:39 kylemcd yes, this is what i’d like clarification on too
19:40 kylemcd ofTheo could you explain what the intent for OSX support will be with 0.9.0
19:40 pizthewiz As of right now, HEAD still supports Mac OS X 10.6+, but tgfrerer mentioned in his 64-bit PR requires 10.7+ so we'd at least need to ditch 10.6
19:40 ofTheo I think the idea was that we wouldn't go out of the way to support 10.6
19:41 ofTheo but we wouldn't deliberately remove / break the QT code
19:41 kylemcd but we will deprecate it, correct?
19:41 ofTheo definately
19:41 ofTheo I think its fine to only test for 10.7 or actually even 10.8
19:41 ofTheo ( because 10.7 is a terrible OS )
19:42 ofTheo so totally fine with that aspect of what pizthewiz is preposes
19:42 kylemcd so this is also related to ofQTKitPlayer — if you are using 10.7 you don’t have AVFoundation correct?
19:42 pizthewiz I don't believe It is only a matter of testing, tgfrerer said it won't build on 10.6
19:42 ofTheo *preposing
19:42 ofTheo right
19:42 ofTheo thats fine I think to say 0.9.0 is 10.8 and above
19:42 ofTheo ( or 10.7 )
19:42 kylemcd hah hah
19:43 kylemcd let me try
19:43 kylemcd 0.9.0 will not support 10.6. it will support 10.7 with ofQTKitPlayer but it will be deprecated. 10.8+ will use AVFoundation
19:43 kylemcd is this correct?
19:44 ofTheo that sounds right to me - piz?
19:44 kylemcd “deprecated” is something we do with code, but it also implies we will not be providing support or fixes
19:45 pizthewiz Personally, I'd like to see us jump to 10.8+ as it eliminates 25% of the target support ;0)
19:45 ofTheo great
19:45 ofTheo f- 10.7
19:45 pizthewiz Whoo hoo!
19:45 notjosh +1 ;)
19:46 pizthewiz We should still include and compile ofQTKitVideoPlayer though yeah?
19:46 pizthewiz For someone that manually wants to select a player?
19:46 kylemcd i would like to jump to 10.8+ as well but from that thread it sounds like zach and arturo are against it
19:47 ofTheo that sounds good
19:47 kylemcd i’m going to close PR #3543 then
19:47 xavivives joined #openframeworks
19:51 kylemcd ok i also updated #3507 and #3506
19:52 kylemcd great i think we’re back in business
19:52 kylemcd any other thoughts on 0.9.0
19:52 ofTheo I have to run out! sorry I can't stay to the end
19:52 xavivives joined #openframeworks
19:52 kylemcd theo how are your issues https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0.9.0+assignee%3AofTheo
19:52 kylemcd ;)
19:53 ofTheo slow right now!
19:53 kylemcd hah hah
19:53 ofTheo but I can bust them out maybe early march
19:53 kylemcd anyway, that’s all — thanks everyone for coming
19:53 pizthewiz If there are any large swaths of 0.9.0 that need help and contributions, maybe an open call to the dev list would help?
19:53 bilderbuchi wait kyle
19:53 bilderbuchi I just wanted to put down a reminder that this year's Google Summer of Code application window starts tomorrow! So, if we want to apply again, we should move quickly: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2015
19:53 pizthewiz The 64-bit Windows/apothecary one is a good one
19:53 kylemcd oh go ahead bilderbuchi
19:53 kylemcd sorry
19:54 Kojo @piz +1
19:54 kylemcd oh nice
19:54 kylemcd i’ll send a note to of-dev about this too
19:55 kylemcd anything else?
19:57 caitlin_ sounds good :)
19:57 kylemcd thanks everyone!
19:57 kylemcd meeting adjourned :)
19:57 kylemcd notjosh did you want to chat for a sec
19:58 notjosh surely.
19:59 notjosh clarifying apothecary actually made a lot made of sense
19:59 kylemcd oh great
19:59 kylemcd so obviously we’re still trying to get a hold of where all the build scripts are, it’s a bit scattered
20:00 notjosh nod
20:00 kylemcd but the easiest thing to do might be to jump into that folder and see which ones are still missing something for your platform
20:00 notjosh so the issue is getting the libs built with 64bit slices - some aren't 64bit friendly, or aren't up to date?
20:01 notjosh or..were they previously just committed as binaries, but this is migrating to source builds?
20:01 kylemcd #2
20:01 kylemcd they were 32bit binaries before
20:01 notjosh ah
20:02 kylemcd this will be the first time we are releasing based on build scripts
20:02 notjosh that's neat
20:02 kylemcd yeah and a very welcome change
20:02 notjosh is apothecary owned by someone if I have q's? or better to just ping of-dev?
20:02 kylemcd building libraries was a kind of black magic that only a few OF devs were familiar with and this makes it more open and accessible
20:03 notjosh yup. know that fun/pain. works until it doesn't :)
20:03 kylemcd apothecary was started by dan wilcox @danomatika but he is not actively involved anymore. the most active people working on the formulas right now are @danoli3 and @bakercp
20:03 kylemcd you can also ping the @openframeworks/apothecary group on github
20:04 notjosh ah nice
20:04 kylemcd if you have a specific problem i suggest either writing to the of-dev list or commenting on an issue on github that is related to the formula you’re building
20:04 kylemcd commenting on an issue will probably get you the fastest reply
20:04 notjosh is the goal that we'll have an 0.8.x compatible build of libs out of apothecary?
20:05 notjosh (mostly a side-effect, but will help against regressions)
20:05 kylemcd we do not intend to recreate the 0.8.x libs, we are instead trying to (as a first step) make openframeworks/master compatible libs
20:06 kylemcd as a second step (and preferable, but sometimes extra work), we would like to make libs that are based on the most recent release of the library, but this may require modifying openframeworks/master
20:06 notjosh nod
20:07 kylemcd if you want to try things out maybe test https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pull/3624 for yourself to see if you can recreate his results
20:07 kylemcd and one more bit of institutional knowledge that might help you on your journey
20:07 kylemcd there is a fork of OF here https://github.com/prisonerjohn/openFrameworks/tree/feature-64bit
20:07 kylemcd which has 64-bit compatible libs but no build scripts
20:07 notjosh ah, cool
20:08 kylemcd which helps if you’re trying to assess if your work is correct in the context of other libs
20:08 kylemcd and that they all link together
20:08 debuuux joined #openframeworks
20:08 kylemcd and, finally, i think this contains a modified project file template that we’ll be using: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pull/3627
20:09 notjosh so apothecary have a verification step? or how are we actually making sure builds are building what we want?
20:09 notjosh does*
20:09 notjosh seems it's just eyeballed right now, correct?
20:10 kylemcd i think so… i’m guessing people are just using lipo -info to make sure they got what they were looking for
20:10 notjosh yup
20:11 kylemcd i haven’t done it myself, but i would also try using the libs from feature-64bit, the project file in #3627, and then generating your libs and seeing that the project file still builds an OF project
20:11 kylemcd this transition step is pretty messy but we only have to do it once
20:11 mattfelsen Also I think the assimp library in prisonerJohn's fork may have some issues
20:12 mattfelsen In case you're using it as a reference
20:12 notjosh np :)
20:12 mattfelsen But apps will still compile/link against it
20:13 notjosh sure
20:13 mattfelsen That comment may also be out of date now :) I haven't been keeping up with his fork
20:13 debuuux joined #openframeworks
20:13 notjosh (fyi, I'm Berlin based and it's almost bed time, so I'll dive in tomorrow)
20:13 kylemcd cool
20:14 kylemcd i’m out for now
20:14 kylemcd great chatting :)
20:14 kylemcd & good luck!
20:14 notjosh ace, thanks! adios
20:19 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
20:22 kylemcd joined #openframeworks
20:30 bilderbuchi left #openframeworks
20:37 kylemcd notjosh one more thing https://github.com/danoli3/apothecary-den#build-status
20:57 zach joined #openframeworks
21:08 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
21:12 notjosh is there a better home for `android_configure.sh`? it breaks the `apothecary update core` looping through each .sh file? I've worked around it crudely by adding a no-op in `doCommand` for that particular file. but that's gross :) /cc pizthewiz
21:13 notjosh what's the best workflow here? ping the list, or open an issue?
21:14 pizthewiz I'd say open an issue and make sure you /cc @mention the person who created the file
21:16 notjosh roger
21:50 Guest23222 joined #openframeworks
22:50 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
23:26 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks
23:26 pizthewiz joined #openframeworks

| Channels | #openframeworks index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary