Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2015-03-22

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Time Nick Message
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13:25 golan_ hello all. I'm here for the book sprint that begins in a half-hour.
13:36 ofzach joined #openframeworks
13:37 golan_ hi zach
13:40 ofzach hey hey !
13:40 ofzach how are things in pittburgh ?
13:41 golan_ hi!
13:41 golan_ good. Thanks for organizing this.
13:41 ofzach yeah np !  got to work through the list and get this out !
13:41 ofzach I think it’s very close actually
13:41 golan_ I've gotten my head back into my chapter. It's important.
13:42 ofzach yeah I think it’s really going to help alot of people
13:42 ofzach I remember how important your chapter for casey’s thing was about computer vision and artistic practice
13:42 golan_ I'll be working all day except for an hour or so this afternoon.
13:42 ofzach cool I’m here if you need anything
13:43 golan_ Casey wants me to make a version of this chapter for P5 as well, so I've been in a karmic debt to both of you. Gotta get out from under this cloud :)
13:43 ofzach haha no worries, you have a karmic surplus as far as I am concerned
13:44 golan_ I think one thing that's not clear from the ofBook readme is that it's not actually necessary to be able to build the Latec book, in order to contribute to it.
13:44 golan_ For example, I was not actually able to get the thing to build on my [wonky-ass] laptop, but it doesn't really matter.
13:44 ofzach oh good point, I’ll make some notes about this
13:45 ofzach yeah for now, you should be able to just make changes in GH and see them (after some time) on the website
13:45 ofzach I’m happy to walk you through getting it to work
13:45 ofzach on your laptop
13:45 golan_ I'm just using some random Markdown editor, then pushing with command line.
13:45 ofzach one thing is that OSX latex installer is super wonky
13:46 ofzach and pandoc is also slightly massive and gets mega tripped up
13:46 ofzach the latex errors are crazy
13:46 golan_ A group of crows is called a murder, a group of devs is called a merge conflict. That's what I'm worried about today :)
13:46 ofzach haha i think it will be ok
13:47 ofzach as long as folks are organized about what they are doing
13:47 golan_ I might need some guidance when merge conflict arises.
13:47 ofzach yep happy to hel
13:47 ofzach help
13:48 golan_ Also, if there are people present who "want something to do", I could use some help with the code examples while I write the text.
13:48 ofzach cool cool will make a note of that
13:48 golan_ For example, I have placeholders for things like "code to add a constant value to an image"
13:49 golan_ In order to brighten it, etc.
13:50 ofzach right…  once you are rolling can you add a comment to the task list so we don’t forget https://github.com/openfra​meworks/ofBook/issues/108
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13:53 golan_ I'm going to be on IRC, I'm not inclined to jump back and forth to Slack for today.
13:54 ofzach not a problem with me, I really do like slack, we use it for SFPC and it’s very helpful
13:55 golan_ quick question, what's the preferred method for extracting the r,g,b, components from an ofColor? I notice there's no getRed() helper function as there is in Processing.
13:56 ofzach I think you can just access the .r but let me check…
13:56 ofzach it might be nice to add helper functions, we already have a getBrightness
13:57 golan_ right, it's just .r, .g. .b etcetera. ok
13:58 golan_ I just didn't see the Processing-analogous helper functions among the list of supported methods.
13:58 ofzach ofColor t = ofColor::red;
13:58 ofzach cout << (int)t.r << endl;
13:58 ofzach cout << (int)t.g << endl;
13:58 ofzach cout << (int)t.b << endl;
13:59 ofzach one thing to note is that it’s returning unsigned char or float or whatever the type T of ofColor is….
14:01 ofzach that’s why the cast, otherwise cout will print out
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14:25 ofzach @golan just a reminder that there’s some feedback here: https://github.com/openframeworks/ofBook/pull/92
14:42 golan_ Thanks for the reminder Zach, I'm going through his feedback now.
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14:49 nongio hey
14:49 ofzach hey !!
14:49 admsyn hi all
14:49 admsyn ofzach: did you end up opening a slack channel?
14:49 nongio I’m here if you some help with html/css
14:49 ofzach what do you think?
14:49 nongio if you need..
14:50 ofzach nongio — one thing I was going to look at was the formatting of the images in the math chapter
14:50 admsyn it's probably better for media sharing etc
14:50 ofzach we did something kind of nice for images generally:
14:50 ofzach http://openframeworks.cc/ofBook​/chapters/cplusplus_basics.html
14:50 ofzach but since the math chapter figures are generated differently they are missing something:
14:50 ofzach http://openframeworks.cc/ofBook/chapters/math.html
14:51 ofzach some images are inline with teh text others are not
14:51 ofzach actually they are not images
14:51 ofzach they are formuals :)
14:51 ofzach formulas
14:52 ofzach (mathjax)
14:52 nongio ok, do you think is better using images with the shadow for the formulas?
14:52 ofzach I wonder if we can differentiate between ones that are in the text or not and for the ones that are not that we center them and give them spaces like normal images?
14:53 ofzach like this is a kind of awkward:
14:53 ofzach http://imgur.com/p0SRtZF
14:53 nongio ok let me check
14:53 ofzach thanks !
14:59 admsyn so in the sound chapter, I still have stuff that's an "aside" / sidebar / footnote kind of thing, but it's just inline with [footnote] in front of it at the moment
15:00 ofzach let me check
15:00 admsyn tbh I could probably just rework it a bit so it just flows like a normal paragraph
15:00 admsyn but is there a way to do it? I think arturo just did blockquotes for the same effect
15:00 ofzach which part is this?
15:01 admsyn if you just cmd-F for "footnote" you'll get a couple
15:01 admsyn in "why -1 to 1" there's a couple
15:01 ofzach oh I think block quote might be the easiest
15:02 ofzach block quote will pull in and be a bit centered, like : http://openframeworks.cc/ofBook​/chapters/cplusplus_basics.html
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15:10 ofzach matt felsen just arrived here in nyc
15:11 admsyn1 📢🚨
15:12 admsyn1 so are we all pushing to master? was going to just do PRs
15:12 ofzach I’ve been pushing to master unless you think it’s something people need to review
15:12 admsyn1 also I just have a few edits to do to the sound chapter, then what's good to look at?
15:13 ofzach I think there are a few chapters that need love - the data vis chapter
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15:13 ofzach the c++ 11 chapter
15:13 admsyn1 ah yeah I see the release task list
15:13 admsyn1 ok thanks
15:13 ofzach cool !!
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15:27 ofzach hi mike !
15:27 ofzach hy synesthere !
15:27 mikehadley hey zach
15:27 mikehadley how's it going
15:27 ofzach good good !
15:27 synesthete Hello zach
15:27 ofzach hi !!
15:29 mikehadley I assume we're using the release task list you put together to guide the hacking today?
15:29 ofzach yep — at the moment
15:29 ofzach @nongio is looking the formatting of the math chapter mathjax
15:29 ofzach matt is looking at the TOC page and and adding more links to chapters
15:30 ofzach golan is working on his chapter and I think he might need help with examples
15:30 ofzach adam is looking at his chapter and add the data vis chapter
15:31 ofzach I am looking at standardization of chapters now and at small issues that are easy to attack
15:31 ofzach (also, I’ve tried pinging some authors to look at good PRs)
15:32 mikehadley Yeah, hopefully we can get those PRs closed
15:33 ofzach yeah I feel like they are really good (thanks @synesthete!)
15:33 ofzach so I am also ok to merge them if we don’t hear back from people
15:33 mikehadley ditto
15:33 ofzach I might send an email out, just announcing that so people can voice up if they would like to review
15:34 mikehadley seems like a good idea
15:34 ofzach I think some small stuff is easy to hit, like changing the serial cable image in hardware chapter, etc
15:34 mikehadley okay, I'm going to take a few to re-familiarize myself with the to-do list and see where I can be useful
15:34 ofzach awesome
15:34 ofzach a big thing still is what to do about Joel’s chapter — I feel like it could be excerpted in a small form for this book and link to a larger form
15:34 ofzach like what the C++ basics chapter does
15:35 ofzach it’s not crucial, but I feel like it just needs love.  Also, I think elliot + mimi’s chapter will not get done soon so we might want to get more case studies
15:36 mikehadley hm, that seems reasonable to go the excerpt route.  it's been a while since I've looked at the case study chapters - I only really remember eva's off the top of my head.  I'll have to take another look at them
15:36 ofzach thanks!
15:37 synesthete @ofZach Would more of those same sort of edit suggestions be useful. I had started a read through of the book in it's entirety, making it about 1/3 of the way through.
15:37 ofzach yes definitely they are super helpful !!
15:39 synesthete Super. I will pick up where I left off, in the I/O section.
15:39 ofzach great !!
15:40 mikehadley one of the pieces of feedback we got from using ofBook as a teaching tool at SAIC was that new students stumbled a lot in the OOPs chapter
15:40 ofzach yeah I think the OOP chapter needs a re-write, I know rui is working on it
15:40 mikehadley ah okay, great
15:41 ofzach there’s this change
15:41 ofzach https://github.com/openframeworks/ofBook/com​mit/2f56f2cfd49adc7fd2ccd06ee9cd30e080554eba
15:41 ofzach but I’d like to encourage no pointers in the chapter — feels like too early for that
15:42 mikehadley yep, makes sense
15:46 mikehadley I see that one piece of feedback about linking to the API.  I assume this means linking to the doc page
15:47 mikehadley Is anyone tackling that?
15:50 * admsyn1 is not tackling that
15:50 admsyn1 I'm updating some sound examples to use 0.9.0-specific API, is that fine?
15:51 admsyn1 it does make for easier-to-read code in book form
15:51 mikehadley I'm not up on the release schedule - what's the plan with 0.9.0?
15:52 admsyn1 may IIRC
15:52 admsyn1 so I guess that may be a bit premature
15:53 admsyn1 but it's so clean tho
15:53 admsyn1 ok
15:53 mikehadley Yeah clean is nice, but it does seem a little early if we are going to release the book now
15:54 ofzach I think it’s good to do it if we can but not crucial — better is more outward links I think
15:54 ofzach like how at the end of the git chapter, there are links to other resources
15:54 ofzach @mattfelsen is going to look at that I think but others can help as well
15:55 ofzach I like how @mikehadley did the linking in the graphics chapter — it’s nice to see it
16:01 mikehadley Gotcha.  I agree that it's probably not crucial for release to link to the oF doc pages.  I think it'll be helpful for beginners though, so I'm going to take a few minutes and add those oF links to at least the early chapters
16:06 ofzach cool !
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16:06 ofzach hi rux_ !
16:06 rux_ hey Zach!
16:06 rux_ : )
16:07 rux_ sorry i couldn;t make it to to the office - wfh
16:07 rux_ just pushed a lot of change on oops
16:07 rux_ no more pointers
16:07 rux_ : )
16:08 ofzach oh wonderful
16:08 ofzach will check it out
16:08 rux_ would love ur feedback - i'll b on and off through the day (when i get little to sleep!)
16:09 ofzach ok awesome !
16:15 ofzach looks like good changes to the ooops chapter, @mikehadley maybe you can give this a look too  ?  thanks rui !
16:15 admsyn1 do I drop a link to MIREX in the sound chapter <_< >_>
16:15 admsyn1 I think so
16:16 ofzach yeah !!
16:18 mikehadley yeah sure, I'll take a look at the oops changes
16:19 rux_ : )
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16:36 nongio ok I managed to install all the dependencies, the download of mactex is supeeeer slow
16:39 ofzach yeah mactex is super slow
16:39 nongio I’m having problems to load mathjax script
16:39 ofzach I never got mathjax to work on OSX however
16:39 ofzach yeah I had similar problems
16:39 ofzach it works on the server
16:39 ofzach http://openframeworks.cc/ofBook/chapters/math.html
16:40 ofzach so if it’s easier, maybe you can take a look at this ?
16:40 ofzach I wonder if you can download the html + js and work locally against that ?
16:40 nongio ok I changed manually the link url
16:40 ofzach (I also think getting the mathjax to work would be great)
16:41 nongio into the output folder
16:42 ofzach do you mean chaning this link ?
16:42 ofzach http://cdn.mathjax.org/mathjax/latest/M​athJax.js?config=TeX-AMS-MML_HTMLorMML
16:43 nongio yes or it just needs to be served from an http server
16:43 nongio from output folder: python -m SimpleHTTPServer 8000
16:43 nongio and it works
16:43 ofzach oh yeah I just tried that —
16:44 ofzach I was just going to say the same thing :)
16:44 nongio :)
16:55 nongio so to make more spacing on the formulas block I need to change the enclosing character from $ to $$
16:55 nongio http://www.suluclac.com/Wiki+​MathJax+Syntax#MathJax_Syntax
16:58 ofzach ok cool — sounds good
16:58 ofzach if you think we need to add something in the html via python let me know
16:59 ofzach we are doing some of that for the images to give them an extra div for centering and the drop shadow
16:59 ofzach that’s all sort of here:
16:59 ofzach https://github.com/openframeworks/ofBook/blo​b/master/scripts/createWebBook.py#L234-L267
17:12 mikehadley hey rux_, I'm looking at your chapter now
17:12 mikehadley oh nevermind, he left
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17:24 nongio @zach https://github.com/openframe​works/ofBook/pull/113/files
17:24 nongio take a look if it seems good
17:26 ofzach cool I just got back from getting dumplines taking a look in a sec —
17:41 ofzach cool that seems to help
17:42 ofzach I wonder if we can add more padding on the math classes which are cenered
17:42 ofzach centered
17:44 ofzach I guess that’s just MathJax_Display
17:47 ofzach this kind of helps
17:47 ofzach .MathJax_Display{
17:47 ofzach padding-top: 2em;
17:47 ofzach padding-bottom: 2em;
17:47 ofzach }
17:47 mattfelsen Does anyone know if toc.html was in / instead of /chapters for a reason? If not I've moved it to /chapters so we can use the same header include for paths to css/js files
17:48 ofzach no reason, it’s just how pandoc does it
17:48 ofzach sounds good to me
17:51 mattfelsen Just submitted a PR with styling applied to the TOC 👍
17:53 mikehadley Sent a PR ruxrux's way about his chapter.  I'm going to take a break to grab food and take care of a few things.  Check in with you all later
17:54 ofzach awesome !!
18:00 ofzach the math chapter is much easier on the eye now: http://openframeworks.cc/ofBook/chapters/math.html
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18:25 nongio guys I have to go now. If there is something else I can help, please let me know I can work on it a bit this week
18:25 ofzach ok thanks !!!
18:25 nongio let’s get this done! :)
18:26 ofzach yep it’s getting closer now !!
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18:48 golan_ I'm making good progress on the imaging chapter, but have to take the kids out to lunch. I'll be back in 1.5 hours, then will be working the rest of the day here on this.
18:55 ofzach cool cool !
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19:02 gethin Hey All
19:02 admsyn1 hi gethin
19:03 gethin It’s gethin aka jgl aka cyber aka Joel Gethin Lewis here
19:03 gethin https://github.com/openframeworks/ofBook/bl​ob/master/chapters/project_joel/chapter.md
19:03 gethin is my chaptetr
19:04 gethin if anyone has any comments I’d be glad to hear them
19:04 ofzach hey joel !
19:05 ofzach one thing we were discussing is if there was a way to have an excerpt of your chapter that’s a bit more cut down and link to the larger thing?
19:05 ofzach it feels like it’s a bit on the long side relative to the other chapters, I think some of it is listing of code and files
19:06 ofzach for josh’s chapter we have it link to the longer unabridged version
19:09 bilderbuchi btw for anybody reviewing changes/PRs, be aware that the "rich diff" button in a PR view on github will offer a _rendered_ markdown diff, pretty nice for review!
19:09 ofzach yeah the new github changes for text differeneces are great !
19:10 gethin Hey Zach, sure, I’m happy for it to finish with the conclusion - is that short enough?
19:10 gethin Conclusion
19:10 gethin All in all, for a low budget project, using openFrameworks was the differentiator that enabled me to collaborate with the rest of the team at Hellicar&Lewis to make the installation come to life. The key factors were being able to draw upon so many external addons, previous projects and the community as a whole.
19:10 gethin that bit
19:13 gethin It’s shorter than eva’s chapter if you finish there
19:13 gethin make sense?
19:13 ofzach sorry give me one sec...
19:13 gethin or perhaps line 382 is the best to finish - after the thanks!
19:13 gethin eva is 420 lins long
19:13 gethin lines
19:14 gethin also it looks like elliots chaper still has some edits to go?
19:14 ofzach oh yeah ! I think that would ideal - - then link to the larger breakdown
19:14 ofzach yeah elliots will get cut for now I think (along with the c++11 chapter)
19:14 ofzach when they are ready, they can be back in...
19:16 gethin should i cut and paste and make a longer one?
19:16 gethin i mean a separate appendix.md?
19:17 ofzach what josh did was have an unabridged.md
19:18 ofzach https://github.com/openframeworks/ofBook/blob/​master/chapters/cplusplus_basics/unabridged.md
19:18 gethin ok renaming
19:18 ofzach cool !! thanks
19:19 gethin done!
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20:11 ofzach hey everyone!  I have to run — I will be jamming on stuff tonight / tomorrow — thanks for jumping in !
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21:39 qDot_ Just curious, does anyone maintain a list of "openframeworks-like frameworks" for things that aren't in C++, for instance?
21:40 admsyn1 not that I'm aware of fwiw, though that'd be interesting
21:40 qDot_ Yeah. Was discussing the possibility of a Rust openFrameworks with someone yesterday, was curious how many in other languages are out there now.
21:40 admsyn1 I wonder how far a github code search looking for "openframeworks" and not C++ gets you
21:41 * admsyn1 has been dabbling with Rust for that purpose
21:41 admsyn1 but haven't gotten far
21:41 qDot_ Yeah I've been trying to drive some creative projects internally at Mozilla, and that seems like it could be fun.
21:41 admsyn1 but yeah, don't know sorry
21:42 qDot_ And it'd be nice to work in not C++ after spending my days in the DOM mines.
21:42 admsyn1 has mozilla been giving support to gfx-rs and that glfw wrapper? seems like that'd be an easier sell
21:42 qDot_ I know there's some support for piston.
21:42 qDot_ But that's because we're all big on games in general right now.
21:42 admsyn1 seems it
21:43 * qDot_ has been working on more gamepad API stuff lately. And there's a lot of call for WebAudio improvement on that front.
21:43 qDot_ and I imagine Rust -> emscripten for games is someone's dream.
21:44 admsyn1 I was more curious about seeing what Rust could bring that wouldn't be 100% in OF's domain but sorta-kinda near it
21:44 admsyn1 like the web-centric stuff around servo etc
21:44 qDot_ "Not C++"? :3
21:44 admsyn1 but yeah I don't actually know shit about Rust so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
21:44 admsyn1 yeah that too
21:44 qDot_ I mean, in the end, only thing a new language is gonna bring is a new language.
21:45 jorrakay qDot_: I use Python with an engine called Panda3D
21:45 admsyn1 but then if you go with python for example you get alllll the math and machine learning stuff easily too 'cause that's where they hang out
21:46 jorrakay they have some support in the vr area.
21:46 jorrakay perhaps not as extensive as OF in the hardware area though.
21:47 jorrakay i'm actually interested in OF specifically because python apps are entirely too difficult to distribute
21:48 jorrakay and OF has the most mature C++ api I've seen in anything like this
21:48 qDot_ jorrakay: Oh god yes, the horror stories I have about py2exe and cxFreeze
21:49 jorrakay its been twice now that I've completely broke down at the end of game jams because I can't get binaries out with python.
21:50 qDot_ Yeah, I used to have to freeze Qt and a ton of libraries. Never. fucking. again. I actually wrote a communications framework in python because I love gevent and zmq, but mostly threw it away due to that.
21:50 jorrakay I would actually love to hear your horror stories esp. if you have any advice.
21:50 qDot_ Unfortunately they're all a bit dated now. Last time I tried that was 2-3 years ago.
21:51 qDot_ cxFreeze seemed to work the best, but nothing happened without a good bit of cajoling and weirdness.
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21:51 jorrakay the only tool i've gotten to work is py2app, and yeah I had to manually massage the .app file it put out afterwards.
21:51 jorrakay before it would work.
21:52 qDot_ What platform are you aiming for?
21:52 qDot_ py2app was OS X only, right?
21:52 jorrakay Windows / Mac OS / Linux
21:52 qDot_ I vaguely remember rpath stupidity with it.
21:53 jorrakay yeah my asset paths were always incorrect and nothing i did in the configuration seemed to change where they got dumped
21:53 jorrakay but i was short on time
21:54 jorrakay At least it managed to build the thing
21:56 qDot_ Yeah, unfortunately I don't have much advice that would be current. I would /hope/ things have gotten better since. But I pretty much just gave up on distributing python applications. Just use it for proof of concept or "here's a requirements.txt build a venv yourself"
22:00 jorrakay thanks anyway.
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22:44 golan_ back.
22:51 admsyn1 golan_: "ofzach: hey everyone!  I have to run — I will be jamming on stuff tonight / tomorrow — thanks for jumping in !"

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