Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #openframeworks, 2015-08-02

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01:48 Topic for #openframeworks is now Welcome :) Site: http://openframeworks.cc/ Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/openframeworks/
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04:00 cconstantine does anyone know a fast way to draw a bunch of stuff then keep it on the screen as an overlay?  I'm making an ofPath object and drawing it every frame, but it brights my program from 60fps down to ~24fps.
04:00 cconstantine running on a raspberry pi 2
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16:53 kylemcd ofTheo when do you guys see siuli
16:53 ofTheo tomorrow!
16:53 ofTheo did you meet already?
16:55 tpltnt joined #openframeworks
16:55 tpltnt hi there
16:55 kylemcd hey tpltnt
16:55 kylemcd ofTheo yeah we met w her on thursday and friday for a bit
16:56 kylemcd psyched to hang out in amsterdam for a few days :) how is your project going?
16:56 ofTheo hasn't started yet : ) - but we'll be in NL for almost a month - so should be fun!
16:57 tpltnt ofTheo: What are you doing in NL?
16:57 admsyn sounds amazing :)
16:57 ofTheo you'll get to meet the nipping too
16:57 ofTheo *nippin
16:57 kylemcd :) awesome
16:57 ofTheo Cinekid - @tpltnt
16:57 tpltnt ahhh
16:57 kylemcd http://www.cinekid.nl/festival/medialab1
16:58 ofTheo its  a great festival - they're always up for doing really ambitious projects
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16:58 tpltnt i envy you
16:59 kylemcd i agree it’s really one of my favorite festivals
16:59 kylemcd tpltnt where are you based?
17:00 tpltnt Currently i am in Germany
17:01 tpltnt Singapore otherwise
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17:01 kylemcd hi gene, hope you saw this http://nbviewer.ipython.org/gist/yoavg/d76121dfde2618422139
17:01 kylemcd tpltnt cool! not quite close enough to visit amsterdam… :)
17:01 genekogan yah i saw your tweet this morning
17:01 genekogan on my reading list
17:02 tpltnt How long are you there? Maybe i can make it happen.
17:05 kylemcd i’m there october 11-21st i think
17:05 ofTheo I'm sept 24 - oct 23
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17:07 kylemcd hi caitlin__
17:07 caitlin__ hey kyle hey all :)
17:08 ofTheo hey caitlin!!
17:08 kylemcd so i’d like to wait another 5 minutes to see if arturo can make it, haven’t heard from him.. but it looks like it might be a quick meeting anyway
17:08 tpltnt I am probably in China during that time :-/ @ofTheo @kylemcd
17:08 gorkacortazar hello guys
17:09 admsyn hi everyone!
17:10 ofTheo hey all!
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17:15 kylemcd ok let’s go for it anyway :)
17:15 kylemcd here’s the agenda
17:15 kylemcd https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/IRC-Meetup-August-2-2015#IRC-Meetup-August-2-2015
17:16 kylemcd 1. 0.9.0
17:17 kylemcd just updated the stats
17:17 kylemcd things are getting closed
17:17 kylemcd there’s been a ton of work since the last irc meetup and it’s kind of hard to keep track of everything, honestly :)
17:18 kylemcd the biggest change i’ve seen is the travis CI addition
17:18 kylemcd which means, if you look at the front page of the OF repo:
17:18 kylemcd https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks#build-status
17:19 kylemcd you can see an indicator of the status of the master branch as to whether it’s compiling on different platforms or not
17:19 kylemcd and this runs on pull requests too, which helps us see if a PR has created a problem somewhere
17:19 admsyn does that imply that there's a structure for adding tests alongside a PR?
17:19 kylemcd that’s the next step
17:19 admsyn I gather right now it's more of a builds/doesn't build kind of thing :)
17:19 admsyn ok
17:19 kylemcd tpltnt has shown some interest in this, but we haven’t figured it out yet
17:20 gorkacortazar and codeblocks-windows seems to be the abandoned kid on the block
17:20 kylemcd as i understand with travis, it seems like it’s just a machine that will do whatever we tell it to do in the script
17:21 kylemcd gorkacortazar, yes, that’s another update over the last few months
17:21 kylemcd OF is generally moving away from code::blocks because we don’t have enough windows devs, and we’d rather focus on supporting one tool so at least one thing works well
17:21 tpltnt @adamsyn the testframework is point 5 on the agenda
17:22 gorkacortazar completly agree with that, specially after trying the new VS
17:22 kylemcd the issues for 0.9.0 are doing really well, they were basically halved since the last meetup
17:23 kylemcd take a look for a moment: https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues?q=is%3Aopen+milestone%3A0.9.0+is%3Aissue
17:23 kylemcd most of these are “hard” (you can tell cause they have lots of comments)
17:24 ofTheo yeah actually CB is really the hardest part of 0.9 at this point
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17:24 ofTheo DirectShow video player running on that is fairly hard
17:24 ofTheo @cconstantine is here it looks like it
17:24 ofTheo he got CB working in his own build system for 0.9
17:25 ofTheo but it used a cmake approach I believe
17:25 kylemcd so should we borrow his lib and ship it without apothecary coverage?
17:26 ofTheo possibly - it sounded like he got it working and it was using all the latest libs I believe
17:27 ofTheo he also got the DS player working - but it relied on having the libs from VS in the system path
17:27 kylemcd wow, weird
17:27 ofTheo the ones we ship with codeblocks_additonals don't cover all the things the player needs
17:28 ofTheo def would be worth checking with him though - going to pull up the issue where we were discussing it
17:28 kylemcd hmm i think if we get to a point where cb is the only thing keeping us back from releasing we should pull it from 0.9.0
17:28 kylemcd but yeah let’s continue that discussion on github
17:28 ofTheo https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/3340#issuecomment-106594537
17:29 ofTheo I'm not sure how others feel - I would be happy to release 0.9 for VS first and then do a 0.9.1 with CB if we can make it happen
17:29 ofTheo I know chris baker wants it as ofSketch uses it
17:30 kylemcd yeah, and i think he’ll attack it when it’s necessary & he has time
17:30 tpltnt Why do you the releases for specific IDE's in the first place?
17:30 kylemcd but clearly any support from anyone else using CB would be great
17:31 tpltnt I mostly rely on the makefiles and i do not see the issue
17:31 gorkacortazar @ofTheo I worked windows/cb for a few years, but in the laste releases i started to find roadblocks, performance issues and some many little problems with addons that we move our work to VS... so maybe it is realistic to focus only on VS.
17:31 kylemcd tpltnt it comes down to distributing different builds of libraries
17:31 kylemcd tpltnt and the slight differences between compilers, and the IDEs they’re associated with
17:32 ofTheo yeah I'm personally seeing a lot more people switch over to VS - its gotten easier to use and setup and CB feels like its lagged behind quite a bit.
17:32 ofTheo but I think it would be fairly easy to focus on a CB release once 0.9 is out the door
17:33 kylemcd i’m not sure there’s much else we can say about 0.9.0 without arturo here, so let’s move on :)
17:34 ofTheo it def feels close at this point
17:34 kylemcd 2. project generator
17:34 cconstantine hi
17:34 kylemcd hi cconstantine
17:34 ofTheo hey hey
17:34 kylemcd any thoughts about mingw before we switch to item #2 :)
17:34 tpltnt hi cconstantine
17:34 gorkacortazar on the other hand (playing devil's advocate role) the VS support needs further testing... I've been trying with a few projects that I'll deliver soon, but only donAmato seems to be focusing heavily on that platform
17:35 ofTheo I'm using VS a lot recently - it feels pretty good
17:36 gorkacortazar some of the issues i have found in VS are more project generator related thou
17:36 ofTheo @cconstantine - we'll be talking about CB and 0.9 in a sec - would be great to get your thoughts after we discuss the Project Generator
17:36 kylemcd continuing..
17:36 kylemcd 2. project generator
17:36 kylemcd zach has made a bunch of updates!
17:37 kylemcd he has a command line tool here https://github.com/openframeworks/projectGenerator/tree/master/commandLine
17:37 admsyn I'm pretty excited to try out the command line version
17:37 kylemcd and a gui here https://github.com/openframeworks/projectGenerator/issues/5
17:38 kylemcd (i thought he was working with daan delange on this, but i’m not sure)
17:38 kylemcd i think the main thing he’s looking for is testing and feedback right now
17:39 admsyn it'd be great if you could specify the template to use, so you could have a minimal app get created (for example)
17:39 kylemcd for feedback i think either that issue #5 in the PG repo is good, or on the mailing list
17:39 admsyn fair enough :)
17:39 kylemcd sorry, started writing that before you posted that message :)
17:39 kylemcd didn’t mean that for you
17:39 kylemcd but yeah, i agree
17:40 kylemcd the “template” idea is still really useful
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17:40 admsyn ideally, I'd like to integrate it into OFPlugin so you could just basically pop up a tiny processing-esque minimal sketch to try a thing out
17:40 admsyn via the command line api on the pg
17:41 kylemcd seems like that should be possible… great idea!
17:41 admsyn fwiw I gave the UI version a test run on OSX, it works :)
17:42 kylemcd there are some weird things with the ui
17:42 kylemcd like it doesn’t understand copy/paste
17:42 kylemcd but in terms of features it’s amazing
17:42 admsyn it expects an absolute path for the app path too as far as I can tell
17:43 admsyn which threw me at first, because I just entered "newPG/testThing"
17:43 admsyn minor gripes I suppose
17:44 kylemcd yeah i think we’ll have to watch and see what people expect
17:44 kylemcd anyway, that’s all for item 2: please test the new PG zach is working on :)
17:44 kylemcd 3. CodeBlocks Win status / thoughts.
17:44 kylemcd cconstantine?
17:44 cconstantine oh hi.  reading
17:45 cconstantine right, codeblocks seems alright to me.  I'm very new to it though
17:45 ofTheo we covered this a bit earlier - was curious @cconstantine if your build system was actually creating the latest libs for glfw/freetype etc for CB - or if you were still using the older 0.8.4 libs to get it running
17:45 cconstantine the big win for me is that runs on linux.  I don't have a windows box so things like VS (which is actually pretty good) don't work for me
17:46 ofTheo we're wondering if we can poach some libs for 64bit and 32bit CB for getting 0.9 out the door
17:46 cconstantine I downloaded OF for the first time like a week ago
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17:46 cconstantine ofTheo, how do I tell?
17:46 ofTheo are you not procedural from Github?
17:46 cconstantine procedural from github?
17:47 kylemcd hah hah
17:47 ofTheo whoops - sorry thought you were someone else
17:47 ofTheo :)
17:47 * admsyn also thought that
17:47 cconstantine hehe, nope.  I'm a newb at OF and just here for the ride :)
17:47 kylemcd cconstantine: there’s a contributor to OF named constantine who goes by “procedural” on github
17:47 ofTheo haha :)
17:47 ofTheo I
17:47 kylemcd glad to have you here anyway :)
17:47 ofTheo I'll ask him on github
17:47 cconstantine I can give opinions if you want, but you probably shoudln't give much weight to it :)
17:48 kylemcd :)
17:48 kylemcd cool, thanks ofTheo
17:48 ofTheo I was hoping arturo would be here to see what he thinks about delayed CB release
17:48 ofTheo none of the libs are updated
17:48 ofTheo so...
17:49 ofTheo I know arturo and Chris Baker want to keep it
17:49 ofTheo ( Chris Baker = CB = Code::Blocks - coiencendence? )
17:49 admsyn :O
17:49 kylemcd hah hah
17:49 gorkacortazar LOL
17:49 kylemcd moving on :)
17:49 kylemcd 4. OFXcodePlugin (bundling/instructions, naming, ownership)
17:49 kylemcd admsyn?
17:50 admsyn yep, so just quickly there was talk about bundling an installer-y thing for it as a way of bundling with 0.9.0
17:50 admsyn conceptually it was pretty simple, and I was fumbling through python to get something that'd work, but it'd be cool if someone who knew python could maybe help me out :)
17:50 admsyn python since you can assume python exists on OSX afaict
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17:51 ofTheo I'm happy with bundling as long as no one says submodule :)
17:51 admsyn same :)
17:51 kylemcd admsyn i know a little python
17:51 bilderbuchi heya
17:51 kylemcd hey bilderbuchi :)
17:52 ofTheo hey hey!
17:52 kylemcd admsyn if you want to write it out in psuedocode as python comments for what it’s supposed to do, i can take a look
17:52 admsyn ok kylemcd maybe I could just get a quick sanity check on what I'm doing after the meeting :) though I'm open to any other ideas
17:52 admsyn alright :)
17:52 kylemcd great
17:52 admsyn re ownership, does OF want to swallow it into the organization?
17:52 admsyn there was talk of this in the email iirc
17:53 bilderbuchi i could also help out with python (though no idea what you're talking about obviously :D)
17:53 kylemcd i think it’s a good idea to add it to the OF organization
17:53 admsyn it's like run 3ish system commands and parse some json :)
17:53 kylemcd but it’s up to you — whether you’d rather have it live there or in your repo
17:54 admsyn having the internet points is kind of useful on occaision if I'm honest, but I don't mind transferring it if it'll get more people to use / trust it
17:55 mattfelsen Can I ask a related question – is the idea that this installer/script will build from source or download a binary from somewhere?
17:55 admsyn I was thinking download from github releases
17:55 bilderbuchi catching up on the transcript:
17:55 bilderbuchi gorkacortazar: codeblocks/msys can be run on appveyor, apparently, so we could extend the windows CI build to include that.
17:56 gorkacortazar another related question is how to handle the xcode ID's, in the release packaging
17:56 mattfelsen 👍🏼
17:56 admsyn gorkacortazar: that's in the python script I'm imagining, xcodebuild -version tells you the xcode you're running (and if you have it installed)
17:56 admsyn and then I have tags up for Xcode version
17:56 admsyn s
17:57 admsyn anyway :) that's all I wanted to mention
17:57 pizthewiz Does the plug-in need to be code signed?
17:57 admsyn I don't think so, since you build it yourself in practice
17:57 admsyn when xcode loads it it's like "hey there's this bundle, should I load it"? and then after that it just goes
17:57 pizthewiz But if we are havig users install binary releases?
17:57 gorkacortazar @admsyn makes sense
17:58 pizthewiz Or are they just grabbing source? (sorry if that was already mentioned)
17:58 ofTheo going to be afk baby meltdown commencing
17:58 ofTheo :)
17:58 admsyn pizthewiz: no I was thinking you download the repo at --depth 1 and build it, since you presumably have Xcode around if you want this thing anyway :)
17:58 pizthewiz Ahh, gotcha
17:59 mattfelsen @admsyn the script builds it for you though with xcodebuild?
18:00 admsyn that's what I was thinking, and then the project installs it as part of its build process
18:00 admsyn (which is what it already does)
18:01 gorkacortazar and an easy way to update it as xcode versions update
18:01 kylemcd regarding where it lives: my only thought is that it would be good to keep the url the same indefinitely
18:02 mattfelsen Sorry, I'm a little confused...if the script does a shallow clone, then what is being downloaded from GH releases?
18:02 kylemcd and if we want to change it at some point to OF, we might as well do it now
18:03 admsyn mattfelsen: sorry yeah I explained that badly, I was thinking this would use the github releases api to grab the tag that matches the user's xcode version
18:03 admsyn kylemcd: sure that works for me
18:03 mattfelsen Ahhhh i get it now :)
18:04 bilderbuchi admsyn: might as well fetch /clone the tag directly? why touch the api?
18:04 bilderbuchi git clone --depth <OF-repo> 0.9.0 ?
18:04 kylemcd yeah it does seem like if the tags are named smartly there should be no API to invoke
18:05 admsyn I think if you use the github releases api you can just get the source code at that point in time without every actaully involving git (can you assume git?)
18:05 admsyn I haven't thought about it too hard thoguh :) you're probably right bilderbuchi
18:05 bilderbuchi dunno if that actually works, though
18:05 bilderbuchi :D
18:05 kylemcd ok let’s transfer ownership to OF first, and get the script working soon
18:06 bilderbuchi still, no need to use an API, that's just a URL https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/releases/tag/0.8.4
18:06 kylemcd admsyn if you can transfer it, that’d be great
18:06 bilderbuchi and our tags are consistently named (excepting very old ones)
18:07 mattfelsen Aren't we talking about tagging OFPlugin by Xcode version number though, not OF number?
18:08 kylemcd yes
18:08 kylemcd but the same concept applies :)
18:08 admsyn same deal though, just hitting the url makes sense
18:08 admsyn yeah :)
18:08 admsyn I can't transfer without admin rights to the openframeworks group it would appear
18:08 kylemcd oh wow, that changed
18:09 bilderbuchi ah, I see. well, sorry for any confusion
18:09 bilderbuchi yeah, that was a security change a while back I think
18:09 admsyn kylemcd: I can transfer to you and you can transfer to OF ?
18:09 admsyn hot potato
18:09 kylemcd sure, let’s do that
18:10 kylemcd ok, exciting!
18:10 kylemcd last item :)
18:10 kylemcd 5. unit tests / tpltnt
18:10 kylemcd (i didn’t see an item so i added it)
18:11 kylemcd tpltnt you were talking about unit tests for ofvec*, and were interested in integrating w travis
18:11 kylemcd what did you have in mind?
18:12 tpltnt In the end i want unit test for all of openFrameworks
18:12 kylemcd :)
18:12 tpltnt currently i am working on ofVec2f
18:12 tpltnt and i use boost for testing
18:12 tpltnt http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_58_0/libs/test/doc/html/index.html
18:13 tpltnt https://github.com/tpltnt/oF-test/tree/unittests-ofVec2f
18:13 tpltnt I would like to be able to ship sort-of consistent releases of OF
18:13 kylemcd WOOOOOO!
18:14 tpltnt or at least be sure that bugs acutally got fixed
18:14 tpltnt the ofXml parsing bug is one example
18:14 tpltnt first i failed to replicate the bug
18:15 tpltnt because the description was not accurate enough
18:15 kylemcd there are a lot of people very interested in seeing this, but no one has ever spent much time on building a testing solution
18:15 tpltnt you can have my code
18:16 tpltnt thanks to the tests i wrote we were able to actually confirm that the bug was fixed
18:16 tpltnt i want that
18:16 bilderbuchi kyle: not really correct I think. there's lots of history on this, see https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/issues/1068
18:16 bilderbuchi also +1000 on testing!
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18:17 bilderbuchi The main question has always been which testing framework to choose to also test the graphical output of OF
18:17 vok` Hi, I've heard that the project generator is in flux. It's being improved?
18:17 bilderbuchi there were already some working implementations of testing  by @diasbruno e.g.
18:17 vok` I've heard that the commandline tools are being improved.
18:17 kylemcd bilderbuchi i knew this thread, but i never saw his repo
18:18 kylemcd vok` yes! see the notes from zach in the agenda: https://openframeworks.hackpad.com/IRC-Meetup-August-2-2015#IRC-Meetup-August-2-2015
18:18 vok` kylemcd, thanks!
18:18 kylemcd tpltnt https://github.com/diasbruno/ofCoreTest/tree/master/src/ofCore
18:18 bilderbuchi also check out this PR https://github.com/openframeworks/openFrameworks/pull/2917
18:19 vok` kylemcd, will they still be keeping the GUI system of the PG?
18:19 vok` kylemcd, I just used the PG to great effect for the first time, haha.
18:19 vok` Installing an addon.
18:19 vok` I couldn't get it to work without the PG.
18:20 tpltnt @kylemcd they used cpptest ... do you know why?
18:20 kylemcd vok` old GUI will be abandoned & replaced
18:20 vok` kylemcd, ah ok, thanks!
18:20 vok` :)
18:20 kylemcd tpltnt i don’t know why. maybe there wasn’t much interest in boost at the time?
18:20 kylemcd admsyn: redirect complete https://github.com/admsyn/OFPlugin
18:20 admsyn wee
18:21 laserpilot now to give it a name that makes sense, heh
18:21 bilderbuchi did the bikesheedding on that already conclude?
18:21 tpltnt @kylemcd i chose boost because it offers test generation
18:22 admsyn laserpilot: ☜(゚ヮ゚☜)
18:22 kylemcd tpltnt that sounds great — i think the important next step is getting travis to run these tests
18:22 bilderbuchi I think the choice of test framework is kinda like vi vs emacs.^^
18:22 bilderbuchi that shouldn't be a problem, as long as you give me a script that travis can run
18:22 kylemcd then when we know that can be automated, we can start filling out more unit tests
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18:22 bilderbuchi I recently restructured that a bit so it is easier to extend
18:23 bilderbuchi the travis setup, that is
18:23 kylemcd bilderbuchi and tpltnt could you work together to make that happen?
18:23 bilderbuchi yeah
18:23 tpltnt sure, why not
18:24 tpltnt i don't think we get a high coverage though
18:24 bilderbuchi let's keep test stuff in a /tests folder in OF root
18:24 tpltnt i am for that
18:24 bilderbuchi yeah, first start, then put a coveralls badge in the readme and gamify it so that people write tests :d
18:24 tpltnt :D
18:25 kylemcd :)
18:25 kylemcd any other items people would like to discuss?
18:25 bilderbuchi I got some stuff to shake out still in the PR system (travis bugs), but you can start work on the test implementation
18:26 bilderbuchi then getting travis to run it won't be a problem (as long as there is a script or command we can call to run the tests
18:26 tpltnt @kylemcd Chaos Communication Camp
18:26 bilderbuchi *CI system i meant
18:27 kylemcd tpltnt what did you have in mind? :)
18:27 tpltnt https://events.ccc.de/camp/2015/wiki/Main_Page ... do any oF people plan on going there?
18:27 bilderbuchi tpltnt: also try to keep the structure modular and extensible, and possibly such that we can (easily) move tests to another framework should that become necessary in the future
18:28 tpltnt bilderbuchi: yes, just have a target/hook that says: run this as the test
18:29 tpltnt I plan on going to the Camp
18:31 kylemcd tpltnt maybe post to of-dev and ask, there might be some people on there going :)
18:31 kylemcd going to call the meeting adjourned — glad to chat with all of you for a bit :)
18:32 admsyn bye all!
18:32 tpltnt bye
18:34 bilderbuchi bye all
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