Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #p6dev, 2016-04-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:41 awwaiid I'm tracing through to understand how eval in the REPL works, via some nqp::say statements in nqp/src/HLL/Compiler.nqp method eval. I'm just modifying the one that rakudo grabbed for me when it built itself. But my changes don't seem to be sticking, even when I do a make inside of nqp/ and then one in the main rakudo/ dir. Any tips?
02:42 awwaiid I tried make clean in both and that didn't help
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03:26 skids awwaid: maybe cd into the nqp subdir and git commit?
03:26 skids Also, delete the nqp binary
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06:10 nine awwaiid: did you do a "make install" in the nqp/ dir?
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06:59 Woodi about ForeignCode things nine++ described: is such system a good-one ? or is there from historical research/development reasons ?  anyway, got idea: what about internal (p6 comunity) "blog" for such findings ? :)  or some more permament then logs medium
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08:56 jnthn ForeignCode just means "this thing didn't have a Perl 6 code object, so we faked one up so you can use it a bit like a Perl 6 code object"
08:57 jnthn Just a part of the usual hllize thing.
08:58 psch Woodi: permanence isn't something i'd worry about wrt the clog, structure is
08:59 psch Woodi: but that's also again time that someone has to spend on blogging instead of hacking
08:59 psch sure, a p6dev weekly (or maybe monthly, or maybe just interesting discussion summarized and structured) would be neat, but who's gonna write it..? :)
09:00 psch fwiw, for the jvminterop i had wondered if attaching a more meaningful signature to a ForeignCode would be feasible
09:02 psch because we then could use the Binder a bit more meaningfully when trying to call Java methods
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10:26 Woodi psch: belive me, devs time is my looking-stupid-ramblings priority. also not forcing them to artificial or rigid or non-voluntary schemas. just seeing that some unobtrusive, almoust no time taking bag of notes could be usefull. you have something interesting and what ? ignore: possibly; docs: no; blog: no; faq: no; irc logs: grepping years of text isn't. so something can be invented :)  also ignored until
10:26 Woodi not invented...
10:26 * Woodi shuts up
10:31 psch Woodi: as i said, i think the idea has merit.  someone just has to actually do it :)
10:39 jnthn One of the few times a large amount of internals docs got written was for the Rakudo/NQP internals course
10:44 nine (conference driven documenting)++
10:44 nine All Inline::Perl5 examples were written for conference talks.
10:45 jnthn nine: Actually, that was a case of "generous sponsor hired me (through $dayjob) to write and deliver the course"
10:46 nine sponsor++
10:46 timotimo sponsor++ # again and again
10:46 jnthn Had that not been the case then it would likely not have happened, or woulda come at the cost of me having time for no Perl 6 development work for at least a month 'cus I was spending it all writing the tutorial.
10:47 jnthn I've done my share of conference driven dev also, of course ;-)
10:48 jnthn Though it's often for live demos... :)
11:20 dalek nqp: 64e50da | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
11:20 dalek nqp: [js] Implement nqp::setdebugtypename.
11:20 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/64e50daac4
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11:30 pmurias jnthn: if I implement nqp::p6* ops directly in nqp-js will it cause trouble?
11:38 jnthn pmurias: Why do that, ooc?
11:38 jnthn It'd probably not be a *technical* problem, but it would make a change that currently only needs changes in the Rakudo repo also need changes in the NQP one
11:39 jnthn lunch, bbi20
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12:25 awwaiid nine: make install helps, thanks!
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: cb27a19 | hoelzro++ | src/core/REPL.pm:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: REPL6: Disable REPL6 on JVM
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Currently, trying to initialize the compiler object in the REPL
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: causes a java.lang.StackOverflowError.
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cb27a19eb7
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 600eb53 | hoelzro++ | docs/line-editor.pod:
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some docs on the REPL and line editors
13:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/600eb5351e
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17:00 dalek nqp: 875e3ad | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/RegexCompiler.nqp:
17:00 dalek nqp: [js] Fix compiling a pass regex node with a dynamic name.
17:00 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/875e3ad9d0
17:00 dalek nqp: f0939b3 | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/66-pararole.t:
17:00 dalek nqp: Test token ::($method) {...}.
17:00 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f0939b3984
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18:35 lizmat http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-04-05#i_12290598
18:35 lizmat making Hash.gist give {} breaks a few spectests that depend on .gist
18:36 lizmat unrelated to Hash per se
18:36 lizmat before I commit this patch, do we agree that Hash.gist should have {} like Array.gist has [] ?
18:37 lizmat m: say []; say {}
18:37 camelia rakudo-moar 600eb5: OUTPUT«[]␤␤»
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18:38 lizmat masak: ^^^  ??
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18:40 sortiz lizmat, +1  # My 2¢
18:41 [Coke] m: my %a; say %a;
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar 600eb5: OUTPUT«␤»
18:41 [Coke] yah, seems reasonable to me to add.
18:43 lizmat m: dd ¾
18:43 camelia rakudo-moar 600eb5: OUTPUT«0.75␤»
18:54 masak I am happy about how much of https://github.com/masak/data-pretty is now done by vanilla Rakudo.
18:54 masak {} for hashes (though I don't seem to have included that as something to fix in data-pretty) would be a step in that same, right direction
18:55 masak if you're looking for prior art, Python already has it that way
18:55 masak though it is an interesting question whether this constitutes a breaking API change, and requires some sort of deprecation
18:55 skids -errata maybe?
18:56 lizmat well, having tests depend on the behaviour of .gist, is just a red flag to me, really
18:56 jnthn Well, given it regresses spectests, we should be a bit cautious
18:57 jnthn Tests depending on .perl output is fairly clear-cut
18:57 jnthn Whereas "say" is used a lot for actual output.
18:57 lizmat so, I would then change the tests to use .perl instead of .gist
18:57 lizmat ?
18:57 btyler masak: all the way to Python for prior art? what about good old Data::Dumper? :P
18:58 jnthn lizmat: Uh...no :P
18:58 jnthn lizmat: I'm saying we have to be careful *because* the tests test .gist
18:58 jnthn lizmat: And that means we claimed that gist working this was is something we support
18:58 masak btyler: Data::Dumper is another good example, though the Perl 6 analogue to that would be .perl, not .gist
18:58 btyler fair point, given the eval-ability
18:58 jnthn So it's on the "can we get away with it" territory
18:59 jnthn I somewhat suspect we can
18:59 masak btyler: in Python, they don't have .gist -- instead all data structures just stringify to something sensible already :P
18:59 lizmat well, if I thought we shouldn't do this, I wouldn't have tried it, or bring it up here  :-)
18:59 jnthn masak: uh... __str__ vs __repr__? :)
19:00 masak jnthn: I stand corrected
19:00 jnthn lizmat: I guess we can see what ecosystem fallout there is :)
19:00 masak jnthn: though overall I still feel that Python wins in terms of sensible stringifications
19:01 jnthn lizmat: I mean, I like the change...I just want a little caution on such things so we don't end up in a position where people are like "gah they said the language was stable then busted my code" :)
19:01 jnthn If I had to guess, the fallout of this one will be rather low, though.
19:02 jnthn So I think, let's try it and see if the ecosystem should get annoyed with us. :)
19:02 * masak .oO( TO THE ECOSYSTEM-COMPILER! )
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19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: c12d407 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/DefiniteHOW.nqp:
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Add .shortname to DefiniteHOW
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Since DefiniteNOW don't "does" Metamodel::Naming. it needs a shortname
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: method, unconditionally used by Mu.gist
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: See http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-02-01#i_11970457
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Test:
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: <sortiz> m: Int:D.gist
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: <camelia> rakudo-moar a5fe34: OUTPUT«Method 'shortname' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::DefiniteHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3vJXmqV_i_ line 1␤␤»
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c12d407e15
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: a331b5b | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/DefiniteHOW.nqp:
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #701 from salortiz/Definite-shortname
19:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:43 dalek roast: e7fb85a | moritz++ | S12-coercion/coercion-types.t:
19:43 dalek roast: RT #127841: .gist on coercion type objects
19:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e7fb85a521
19:43 dalek rakudo/nom: 6a2ff75 | lizmat++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
19:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Curlify Hash.gist, like Array.gist is bracketed
19:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a2ff75a61
20:04 b2gills lizmat: I fixed PR #686 so that it cleanly applies
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 0fafd86 | (Brad Gilbert)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix permutations(1) with early IterationEnd
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: If the loop is run it would try to produce a second value
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: causing it to attempt to access @!a[-1]
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0fafd860b2
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: c8ec5ac | lizmat++ | src/core/operators.pm:
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #686 from b2gills/patch-4
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix permutations(1) with early IterationEnd
20:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c8ec5aca8b
20:15 dalek roast: ff44772 | (Brad Gilbert)++ | S32-list/permutations.t:
20:15 dalek roast: Test permutations(1) and (1,).permutations
20:15 dalek roast:
20:15 dalek roast: This is an edge case that regularly gets overlooked
20:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ff44772ed2
20:15 dalek roast: d64d2eb | (Brad Gilbert)++ | S32-list/permutations.t:
20:15 dalek roast: Test permutations(0) and ().permutations
20:20 skids Hrm, could someone look at PR#732 and roast PR#110 if permutations/combinations are about to be touched?
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20:26 lizmat good night, #perl6!
20:26 skids o/
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21:16 travis-ci Rakudo build errored. lizmat 'Merge pull request #686 from b2gills/patch-4
21:16 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/120990156 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/6a2ff75a61fd...c8ec5aca8bb4
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21:45 psch as a heads up, the travis failure is about github being on maintenance
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22:45 b2gills I can finally remove the workaround in this code golf: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/70405/revisions
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