Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-08-27

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Time Nick Message
00:03 yoni joined #padre
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01:02 submersible garu: I think paul fenwick from perl training au groks tlhingan
01:02 submersible http://en.oreilly.com/oscon200​9/public/schedule/detail/8165
01:02 submersible past tense
01:06 garu I wish someone recorded that
02:03 GabrielVieira_ joined #padre
02:40 garu Alias, you about?
02:40 Alias yes
02:40 garu there is a problem with PluginManager.pm
02:40 Alias what?
02:40 garu it's logic is clashing with existing modules
02:41 garu the $module name now doesn't have Padre::Plugin
02:41 garu so it tries to load Padre::Plugin::Catalyst as my $code = eval "use Catalyst ()"
02:41 garu which goes ok
02:42 garu (even though it shouldn't)
02:42 garu but when it tries $module->isa('Padre::Plugin'), it goes boom
02:42 garu same for Padre::Plugin::SDL  (turning into "SDL")
02:42 Alias The eval should be loading the class
02:42 garu and friends
02:42 Alias Not the name
02:43 Alias I thought I fixed all existing cases
02:43 Alias How does it work at all?
02:43 garu it doesn't :)
02:43 garu at all
02:43 Alias Then how am I using plugins right now
02:43 garu you're probably using old plugins installed via cpan
02:44 garu which for some reason load ok here
02:44 Alias Where's the line that causes the problem
02:44 garu probably because they get called for their full name, god knows why
02:44 garu that's line 489 of PluginManager.pm, sub _load_plugin
02:45 garu first issue is: my $code = "use $module ();";
02:45 garu which on a print STDERR after "test a plugin from local dir" says "use Catalyst ()"
02:46 garu hmm... think problem might be on "test a plugin from local dir" then
02:46 garu makes more sense, explains why everything else is still working
02:46 Alias It can't be load_plugins
02:46 Alias That prepends Padre::Plugin:: to everything
02:46 Alias load_plugin('Catalyst') could cause that problem though
02:47 garu exactly
02:47 garu it's load_plugin (singular)
02:47 garu so it's gotta be on the "Test Plugin from Local Dir"
02:47 Alias It can't be reload_plugins either
02:48 Alias _load_plugin is never called outside of PluginManager that I can see
02:48 * Alias does a wider search
02:48 Alias nope
02:48 garu test_a_plugin
02:48 Alias So it has to be caused by something outside of PluginManager calling ->load_plugin
02:48 garu plugin_manager->test_a_plugin
02:49 garu it's what "test from local dir" calls
02:49 Alias There's a load_plugin in the Acme::Playcode stuff
02:49 garu $self->load_plugin($filename);
02:49 garu line 933
02:50 garu inside sub test_a_plugin
02:50 Alias File name?
02:50 Alias really?
02:50 garu pluginmanager
02:50 garu yup
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02:51 Alias That's problematic
02:51 Alias For now, I'd disable that entire feature
02:51 Alias in the menu
02:52 Alias That implementation is not right, to do it properly probably requires some more ninja'like %INC hacking
02:53 Alias ->_load_plugin doesn't even allow file names as params any more
02:53 garu how is it stored? plugins->{'Padre:Plugin::Something'} ?
02:53 Alias yeah
02:53 Alias Full class name
02:53 Alias I think the old behaviour only worked by accident
02:54 Alias It normalised file name to plugin name, then plugin name to class, and just called the first one in the path anyway
02:54 Alias oh, hence the @INC hacking
02:54 Alias YUCK
02:54 Alias OK, yeah
02:54 Alias Disable the whole feature
02:54 garu ok
02:54 garu (re)load current plugin does what?
02:54 Alias I'll have to reimplement something better at a future date
02:55 Alias reload does an ->_unload + ->_load of all class names
02:55 Alias So plugin testing wouldn't have worked with reload anyway
02:55 Alias I'll need to add support for file hinting somehow
02:55 garu I thought that was 'reload all plugins'
02:55 Alias oh, reload current?
02:55 Alias hrm
02:55 * Alias looks
02:55 garu yeah
02:55 garu maybe it's broken as well
02:55 Alias oh neat
02:56 garu if it loads current opened file as a plugin, it's probably broken as well
02:56 Alias It reloads the plugin that matches the file path of the currently opened document
02:56 Alias Not necesarily
02:56 Alias If it just looked for a class who's %INC hash resolved to the same absolute path as the currently opened document, it would work
02:56 garu but from @INC, not the actual current file, right?
02:57 Alias Implementing the idea of "current" via a search, rather than an assertion/hint
02:57 Alias Set(Class::Name) -> Set(Class/Name.pm) -> Set(/full/path/Class/Name.pm)
02:58 Alias Then look for Padre::Current->document->filename in that last set
02:58 Alias It should work just fine, as long you are editing the system installed version of the plugin :)
02:59 Alias Or for some cases when using dev.pl with the @INC hooks
02:59 garu yeah... so we have to INC-play with that one too
02:59 Alias dev.pl -a ?
02:59 Alias Well, it's a dev tool
02:59 Alias dev.pl -a or something should work just fine
02:59 Alias But yeah, we'd need to implementing file hints across the entire feature set
02:59 garu damn
02:59 Alias So it would need to be all the way into the actual plugin handle class
02:59 Alias etc
02:59 Alias Probably stored in the database
03:00 Alias etc
03:00 Alias Can be done, but will take time I don't have right now
03:00 * garu was really hoping it would be a 2 minute fix :)
03:00 Alias In the mean time, disable the feature
03:00 garu both of them? or just that first one?
03:00 Alias What we can do though, it "Load a custom plugin" with a pure class name
03:00 Alias Just the first one
03:01 garu ok
03:01 Alias The plugin system won't (yet) remember to load it next time, but that's not THAT hard to add
03:04 Hyppolit svn: r7603 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7603
03:04 Hyppolit temporarily removed 'Test Plugin From Local Dir' menu option, until we can fix it properly (volunteers?)
03:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
03:04 garu there :)
03:04 garu Alias, thanks for the input :)
03:05 Alias n/p
03:09 Hyppolit svn: r7604 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7604
03:09 Hyppolit small typo fix
03:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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03:27 Hyppolit svn: r7605 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7605
03:27 Hyppolit there. working :)
03:27 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SDL/share/examples/
03:28 * Alias notes http://uservoice.com/for/opensource
03:28 Alias I think it might be time that we had this kind of feedback/voting forum
03:29 kentnl weird. perl compiled without debug makes debug easier ...
03:29 kentnl Signal SEGV at /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.1​0.1/Padre/Task/SyntaxChecker.pm line 120
03:36 kentnl my free from pool problem is however gone, it appears -DDEBUGGING can introduce bugs ..
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04:01 kentnl http://dpaste.com/85927/ # Devel::CallTrace output before the segv
04:55 szabgab gm
04:55 szabgab garu, how are we on Viagra?
04:56 * szabgab checking, no Viagra spam on our trac yet
04:56 garu morning
04:56 garu let me check
04:56 garu oh, you checked
04:56 garu great!
04:56 szabgab that's encouraging
04:57 * Alias was a little confused by "how are we on Viagra" for a moment there
05:02 garu Alias, yeah, I'm happy he replied to himself quickly enough
05:05 szabgab sorry for that, bad joke
05:07 garu I'm glad because I was already preparing a quick comeback at it :)
05:07 * garu gets sarcastic when he's sleepy, don't mind me
05:13 Hyppolit svn: r7606 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7606
05:13 Hyppolit free AND open source!
05:13 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
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05:14 Sewi Good morning
05:15 garu it's funny to live in the past
05:15 garu everyone's waking up just when I'm about to sleep
05:17 garu sun still cruising the atlantic
05:19 Hyppolit svn: r7607 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7607
05:19 Hyppolit link to the Dreamwidth promo
05:19 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
05:20 szabgab interesting we are quite low in fixes and translations on the release branch
05:22 garu well, we're quite low on those on trunk as well
05:23 garu though, that last bug Alias and I found should be "fixed" on the branch as well, let me do it
05:23 garu there's another bug I found, btw
05:24 garu szabgab, you on linux now, mate?
05:24 szabgab Alias, I am trying to understand this Uservoice thing, have you used it? Anyone here used it?
05:24 szabgab garu, yes
05:25 garu szabgab, open azawawi's Ecliptic.pm, please... Padre not only issues a command line warning about converting CRLF, but it also marks the file as edited!
05:25 szabgab I know
05:25 garu ah
05:25 garu ok then :)
05:25 szabgab it has been like that for 8 month or so
05:26 szabgab I implemented it and regret it ever since, but no once complained about it yet :-)
05:26 Hyppolit svn: r7608 | CSJewell++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7608
05:26 Hyppolit Merge cleanup...
05:26 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
05:29 garu szabgab, seriously? guess everytime I opened Alias's, CSJewell's or azawawi's files, I edit them so can't notice
05:29 garu haven't seen the command line warning before, though
05:30 szabgab yeah, srsly
05:30 garu how do we fix it? this is wrong...
05:30 garu I... guess :)
05:31 Hyppolit svn: r7609 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7609
05:31 Hyppolit disabling 'Test a Plugin From Local Dir' as it doesn't work anymore
05:31 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
05:33 Alias szabgab: I've never used it, but I've used things like it
05:33 Alias Basically people can ask for features
05:33 Alias Then other people can "vote" for those features
05:33 Hyppolit svn: r7610 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7610
05:33 Hyppolit updated Changes file
05:33 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/
05:34 Alias So it's a bit like the bug/feature tracker, except it tracks popularity
05:34 Alias So we know which are the most important bugs ,and the most popular improvements
05:34 Alias If that's what it actually is
05:35 garu "I want this" for Padre
05:37 Alias garu: I've been seeing that warnings too
05:37 Alias I've been accidentally committing files with the wrong line endings because of it
05:37 Alias right
05:37 Alias szabgab: It also gives a way for people to be community-oriented without having to even do bug reports or anything
05:37 Alias Just point at things they want
05:40 Alias http://initech.uservoice.com/pages/1155-initech
05:40 Alias Demo there
05:41 garu if it's autodetect, shouldn't it be transparent to us?
05:41 garu maybe this became an issue when we added the option to force lineending for all files, no?
05:42 Alias You do what now?
05:42 Alias Well, yes
05:42 garu :)
05:42 Alias It should be two different features
05:42 Alias 1. Newline format for new files
05:43 garu well, not necessarily
05:43 Alias 2. Behaviour when loading files (Keep, Force to ( Local, Win32, Unix, Max ) )
05:43 garu I mean
05:43 garu ah, right
05:43 garu yeah
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05:43 azawawi good morning
05:44 Alias With a possible project-level override
05:44 Alias (For the new lines part)
05:44 garu this way, if set to "force to", it would make sense to mark it as changed when opened
05:48 Alias Actually, it's three
05:48 Alias Keep, Force, Ask
05:48 Alias Ultraedit does this stuff really well
05:49 Alias They have three settings
05:49 Alias 1. RadioGroup "Default file type for new files" ( DOS | UNIX | MAC )
05:49 Alias 2. RadioGroup "UNIX/MAC file detection/conversion" ( Disable | Detect type and prompt to change | Automatically convert to DOS format )
05:50 Alias 3. Checkbox "Save file as input format (UNIX/MAC/DOS)"
05:50 Alias (This is a windows-only program of course, we'd need to do it a bit different)
05:50 * szabgab was distracted , backlogging
05:51 Alias Dunno why the "Save file as" is necesarily separate
05:52 szabgab I think I even had a TODO comment in the code regarding this "feature"
05:55 garu maybe it'd be cool to have a button on the toolbar showing a window, a penguin or an apple, one that switched icons when clicked at, and it would quickly set the default line-ending when opened file was saved... this would of course be kept per-document
05:56 garu maybe I'm just babbling... looked neat in my head though :)
05:56 Alias It always does
05:56 Alias I prefer the O(0) approach
05:57 Alias The editor should be so good at getting it right without you having to tell it anything, that the need for the user interface shortcut becomes moot
05:57 garu yeah, it should
05:57 Alias At the very least, "Save as original format" should be the default
05:58 garu definitely
05:58 Alias With an "Ask" option for dealing with mixed newlines
05:58 Alias (But we can do that bit later)
05:59 * Alias REALLY needs to finish his current round of Find/Replace dialog stuff so he can move his mind on to something else
06:00 garu either way, on special cases one could just do Edit->convert EOL. and the file type is already shown on the bottom right panel (though as text, not as pretty icons)
06:00 Alias yes
06:00 garu so yeah, O(0) keeps looking better and better
06:01 garu (except it's O(0) only from a user interaction perspective)
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06:02 szabgab hmm, I think I just understood the release approach garu suggested a week ago or so :-)
06:02 szabgab or branching approach
06:03 szabgab I thought everyone should be aware of the 0.45 branch and do the stuff there and then merge it back to trunk
06:04 szabgab the other approach would be that everyone keeps working on trunk and the release manager merges certain changes from trunk to the branch, cherry picking the development since branching
06:04 garu yup
06:05 garu otherwise merging the trunk from the branch everytime would be a pain
06:05 szabgab I did not think that to be a good one back then but maybe the latter is better
06:06 garu well, neither are brilliant approaches
06:07 garu not by a long shot
06:07 garu in the utopic world commiters would duplicate their changes themselves on both trees
06:08 garu at least this gives the release monkey room to do the cherry picking
06:08 garu assuming he/she gets word of it
06:08 azawawi :)
06:09 szabgab its a question of communication as well
06:09 garu azawawi, any stability fixes you care to mention? :)
06:10 garu yes it is
06:10 szabgab on the long run it might be better to explain the details of branching to everyone, in a way we might need to slow down our franzy of commits
06:11 * Alias would be quite happy to stay in frenzy until the end of the year
06:11 azawawi garu: im really sleepy :)
06:11 garu azawawi, heheh... me too!
06:11 azawawi garu: even though it is morning lol
06:11 garu well, it's 3am here
06:12 garu Alias, agreed. The frenzy is still low traffic enough to be manageable - specially in weekly releases
06:12 garu and specially since this procedure is just once a month for the msi
06:13 Alias At some point around then, we should reach what everyone considers the minimum feature set for Padre to be taken seriously as a real editor
06:13 Alias At when we tick off all those boxes, we release 1.0 and switch to more controlled development
06:13 szabgab have you seen the list of features mentioned on stackoverflow?
06:14 szabgab There are basically 2-3 features that are missing, the biggest one is the debugger
06:16 Alias sure
06:16 Alias But I like the idea of voting
06:17 Alias Stuff emerges in a more clear fashion, you get prioritisation
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06:37 Alias The voting website thing looks pretty much like what we need
06:41 szabgab and do you think we need to integrate it with trac or make it stand alone?
06:42 szabgab there might be a plugin for trac for voting but that voting website can also serve as a promotion tool
06:51 Alias I _hate_ trac
06:51 Alias It's ugly and crude and written in Python
06:51 Alias I'm quite happy to just use the standalone website
06:52 Alias I assume it must be REALLY easy to install, because that's the only thing I can think of that makes it popular
07:02 szabgab I think it looks nice
07:03 szabgab but I get your point, that's why we need to make Padre easy to install on all platforms
07:26 Alias Well, my main point was I hate trac :)
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07:49 szbalint why? :)
07:49 * szbalint reads above
07:57 Alias 1. It's ugly
07:57 Alias 2. It gives you all this shit you probably don't use
07:58 Alias projects, milestones, features, timeline, roadmpa
07:58 Alias Our roadmap page says "We don't yet use the Roadmap feature of Trac. "
07:58 Alias Then why the fuck is it even there?
07:59 Alias our projects page is useless
07:59 Alias It's sort of like half a website, but not
07:59 Alias Since we have to make screenshots a page embedded down in our wiki
07:59 Alias So it's trying to be a website, and failing
07:59 Alias And it doesn't seem to let you shut most of it except the bits you need off
08:00 szbalint I kind of like it, but see room for improvement
08:00 szbalint since noone has written something like it in Perl...
08:00 szbalint RT is a fucking failure for tickets compared to it
08:00 Alias Like what?
08:00 Alias Like a wiki? or a ticket tracker?
08:00 Alias Or bugzilla?
08:01 szbalint a proper ticket tracker with no frills
08:01 pece bugzilla is cool
08:01 szbalint that also supports some small wiki, feed support
08:02 szbalint don't get me wrong I cringe at python, but it works...
08:03 szbalint oh and svn browser
08:04 Alias svn browser?
08:04 Alias you mean... like the svn server?
08:04 Alias http://svn.ali.as/cpan/trunk/
08:04 Alias Or, say, the svn monitor?
08:04 Alias joined #padre
08:04 Alias http://fisheye2.atlassian.com/changelog/padre/
08:05 Alias If trac let you swap out or disable bits of itself, it might not suck so hard
08:07 szbalint yeah, but the point is it is kind of integrated for these tasks
08:07 szbalint there is one place you can go to for your ticketing/wiki/svn/feed needs
08:07 szbalint surely someone who runs windows can appreciate tight integration =)
08:09 Alias Not really
08:09 Alias Not when tight integration means lock-in
08:09 Alias Which it very often does
08:10 szbalint indeed
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08:37 need_pip hello there :)
08:38 Alias hi
08:39 need_pip <-- padre newbie, trying to install plugins. failing with 'pip is unexpectedly not installed'. just built it from svn.
08:39 need_pip any pointers greatly appreciated!
08:39 Alias oopsi
08:39 Alias Are you on unix?
08:41 need_pip yesch
08:41 need_pip well, ubuntu.
08:41 Alias ah
08:41 Alias Congrats, you just reported your first bug :)
08:41 need_pip w00h00!
08:41 Alias Welcome to the Padre community, and thank you :)
08:41 need_pip *dance*
08:42 Alias gimme a sec
08:42 Alias Doest thou have a Real Name?
08:42 need_pip the error comes with the install options: local / url
08:42 need_pip sure, i am John.
08:42 Alias yup, I know where it's gunna be, I merged in the code
08:43 need_pip Padre crashes here with CPAN install option.
08:43 need_pip (bug #2)
08:43 Hyppolit svn: r7611 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7611
08:43 Hyppolit Added missing pip dependency, reported by "John". Just "John", like "Madonna"
08:43 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
08:44 Alias On the command line, run > cpan pip
08:44 szabgab Alias, is bad in svn comments
08:44 Alias hrm?
08:44 Alias What is bad in comments?
08:44 szabgab Alias is bad in comments
08:44 Alias ah
08:44 need_pip lol @ Hyppolit
08:45 Alias I merged in code form a plugin, and forgot to merge in the dependency
08:45 Alias Actually, I'm surprised nobody else noticed
08:45 need_pip i noticed.
08:46 need_pip :P
08:53 szabgab need_pip, could you open a ticket on our trac with the second bug you found ? I take the fist one was solved already
08:55 Alias second bug?
08:56 Alias oh, the cpan one
08:56 need_pip i'll try to replicate it now the pip one is resolved
08:57 need_pip yes, still goes boom.
08:57 Alias Any information on how?
08:59 need_pip plugins->tools->install CPAN module->doubleclick module->boom
09:01 Alias anything on the command line?
09:01 Alias And does a pip-based install work?
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09:02 need_pip i'll run it from cli, sec
09:03 need_pip not really, except from cpan output
09:03 Alias ok
09:03 Alias thanks
09:06 need_pip http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/501
09:07 szabgab need_pip, thanks!
09:07 need_pip very welcome, and thanks for creating Padre. i'll go perling now :)
09:08 Hyppolit svn: r7612 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7612
09:08 Hyppolit [Perl-Dist-Padre] Added 'cpan parent' if you wanted to use the svn option
09:08 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
09:11 Hyppolit svn: r7613 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7613
09:11 Hyppolit [Perl-Dist-Padre] More improvements to BUILDING.txt
09:11 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
09:12 azawawi joined #padre
09:12 azawawi hello
09:29 Hyppolit svn: r7614 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7614
09:29 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] Fixed the mysterious "Failed to create Perl::Dist::Padre at C:\bootperl\perl\bin/perldist line 95." bug
09:29 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/lib/Perl/Dist/
09:31 azawawi Alias: building "Almost Six" strawberry in progress :)
09:32 azawawi Alias: took me 2 days but it is worth it... Alias++, CSJewell++
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09:58 Alias 2 days to learn HOW to build it?
09:58 azawawi the instructions were alpha and it was failing...
09:58 * azawawi "installing perl" now
09:59 azawawi not complete 2 days ofcourse :)
10:03 azawawi what does "Building MSCHWERN/ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.54.tar.gz..." actually do?
10:03 azawawi i do not see any network activity...
10:03 Alias ah
10:03 Alias Did you fix the instructions?
10:04 azawawi yeah
10:04 Alias I assume it's building it from a local cache or a minicpan
10:04 azawawi not from minicpan...
10:04 Alias There's lots of caching of different sorts in the toolchain stuff
10:04 Alias in the Perl::Dist stuff rather
10:08 azawawi Could the building step build 2 jobs at a time to utilize multi-core?
10:13 Alias Not really
10:13 Alias Some parts will use them
10:13 Alias The make stuff will, and parts of the some test suites do
10:13 Alias But most of it is order-dependant
10:13 Alias And most of the parts that aren't are IO-constrained
10:14 Alias And you can't build two strawberries at once, because they usually share install directories
10:14 Alias It's annoyingly long, yes
10:14 Alias But I don't think we'd really see significant improvements for the level of complexity it would add
10:16 azawawi Completed install_perl in 1832 seconds
10:17 azawawi so most of it is network-constrained as i can see on my 30KB/sec corporate connection...
10:18 Alias It should be less so the next time
10:18 Alias Except for the CPAN phase
10:18 Alias And CSJewell now uses a minicpan for that step
10:18 Alias Because otherwise people uploading while he is building can cause the 7 different strawberry variants to build with different modules :)
10:19 azawawi so building off minicpan is the most sensible thing to do after all... damn laziness... :)
10:19 azawawi does it resume if interrupted?
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11:46 Hyppolit svn: r7615 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7615
11:46 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] More fixes to BUILDING.txt for using minicpan
11:46 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
11:54 Sewi joined #padre
12:02 Sewi Hi everyone
12:06 daxim 'lo nase.
12:22 CSJewell2 joined #padre
12:47 azawawi joined #padre
12:47 azawawi hello
12:47 azawawi CSJewell2: hi
12:47 CSJewell2 Hello.
12:48 azawawi i succeeded in building until JSON::XS croaked :)
12:48 * azawawi back to minicpan
12:49 teejay is there a padre/wx demo of displaying an image?
12:49 azawawi display an image on what?
12:50 CSJewell2 You'll have to alter Strawberry.pm - JSON::XS added a requirement since July.
12:50 CSJewell2 Add common::sense before it.
12:51 CSJewell2 If you're using a minicpan, you'll also have to add that to the share/minicpan_filters.txt file.
12:53 azawawi alter Perl::Dist::Strawberry right?
12:53 CSJewell2 Yes.
12:54 CSJewell2 One line alteration.
12:54 CSJewell2 (or should I say addition.)
12:55 azawawi so after installing it from cpan, i have to change it in bootperl, right? since i do not have access to fix it... (i.e. commit)
12:55 CSJewell2 Yes, you do.
12:57 CSJewell2 [It should already be committed in trunk, anyway. I ran into it when doing the final 5.10.1 release. It's just that the last version of Strawberry on is what I used to do the July 2009 releases.]
12:58 CSJewell2 on CPAN, I mean, and svn is just a little unstable at the moment, so I couldn't recommend you use that.
12:58 azawawi svn co http://svn.ali.as/cpan/trunk/Perl-Dist-Strawberry/
12:58 CSJewell2 nononono....
12:58 azawawi i do have an account on svn.ali.as
12:59 azawawi patch the one installed in bootperl?
12:59 CSJewell2 Yes.
13:00 azawawi wget http://svn.ali.as/cpan/trunk/Perl-Dist-​Strawberry/lib/Perl/Dist/Strawberry.pm , ok cool
13:00 azawawi how big is minicpan directory once done?
13:02 Alias should be a gig or a bit less
13:02 Alias thereabouts
13:02 CSJewell2 I specifically provide instructions for a heavily filtered minicpan - more like 60MB.
13:05 azawawi CSJewell2: do u release Perl-Dist-Strawberry once per strawberry release?
13:05 CSJewell2 Yes, I do.
13:05 CSJewell2 So sometimes things can creep in between the releases like this.
13:10 azawawi any eta on the 5.10.1 release?
13:11 CSJewell2 For Strawberry?
13:11 azawawi yeah
13:11 CSJewell2 There's a beta on the site now, non-beta status will happen in October.
13:12 CSJewell2 (Beta test distributions are at http://strawberryperl.com/beta/ )
13:14 * azawawi pulling minicpan now...
13:20 CSJewell2 azawawi: For future reference, %TEMP%/perldist/output contains the output of the last command that has been run. (whenever a perl, dmake, or Build.bat command is run, the output in is debug.out and debug.err files in that directory.)
13:20 CSJewell2 That way, you know WHY something is failing.
13:21 Alias Utterly indispensable too
13:21 Alias Best feature I ever added
13:21 Alias Even if it's crude as hell
13:25 CSJewell2 I certainly agree with that - if it hadn't been there, I would have had to add it.
13:27 CSJewell2 You're up late, Alias. I thought that was my job!
13:28 Alias It's not THAT late
13:28 Hyppolit svn: r7616 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7616
13:28 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] Added a troubleshooting section to BUILDING.txt, CSJewell++
13:28 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
13:28 Alias 11:30pm
13:28 azawawi 4:28pm here
13:29 CSJewell2 7:30am here. :)
13:29 Sewi 3:29pm here
13:34 szabgab teejay, try the 4* examples in share/examples/wx/
13:34 szabgab I don't know if that's what you meant
13:37 teejay szabgab, seen them - not really
13:37 teejay they're "drawing on canvas"
13:37 teejay rather than "display an image"
13:37 szabgab where would you like to display an image?
13:38 azawawi wDC::DrawBitmap maybe...
13:38 teejay not very fussy
13:39 teejay basically it would be for an autodia plugin, so you could go "give me a UML diagram of this class, project, namespace, etc" and have a nice graphviz rendered chart
13:39 azawawi teejay: http://docs.wxwidgets.org/stable/wx_wxdc.html#wxdc
13:40 szabgab afaik in wx everything is a canvas, so to speak
13:41 szabgab but I am not sure yet
13:52 teejay hmm
13:54 teejay http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=112816
13:54 teejay hmm
13:54 teejay that reminds me I need to make autodia handle xs
13:54 teejay because wxperl doesn't document much at all
13:59 szabgab teejay, does that do what you wanted?
14:00 teejay dunno
14:00 teejay looks like it might
14:00 teejay modulo WxImage being entirely undocumented
14:00 teejay at least in perl
14:00 szabgab if you have a simple example script it would be nice if you could add it to our growing set of examples
14:00 teejay I'll try and give it a go when I get some free time
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14:07 Alias teejay: The way this works is that wxPerl is undocumented directly, but you can read the main Wx docs and it should be accurate
14:07 Alias teejay: And where it isn't, there usually "wxPerl" notes in the main docs
14:07 teejay Alias, I've read that
14:07 teejay there are massive gaps and holes
14:07 Alias I agree
14:07 teejay usually you have to read the wxpython
14:07 teejay then try and guess how it would be mapped in perl
14:08 Alias God only knows how much time it would take to doc the entire of wxPerl though
14:08 teejay for all intents and purposes it's undocumented
14:08 Alias Well, I've had no big deal with the main C docs
14:08 teejay if you can map them mentally how xs would that's fine
14:08 teejay but most people, myself included, can't do xs translations of C to perl API in our heads ;p
14:09 teejay It's only marginally better than GTKPerl
14:09 teejay and I could only use that because I'd already done it in C and had a book on it
14:09 teejay that covered some of the gaps/crappyness of the C docs
14:09 teejay This is why I need to add xs handling to autodia
14:09 teejay then I can generate most of the pod
14:10 teejay even if it only provides javadoc style docs
14:10 teejay which is most of what wxpython docs do
14:11 teejay it's a huge barrier to the casual contributor
14:11 teejay at least IME as a casual contributor
14:12 Alias Most of the APIs generally take other objects as arguments
14:12 Alias And generally those translate easily
14:12 Alias The rest, I'm afraid I do by exploration using the "Run in Padre" developer plugin thing
14:14 szabgab AFAIK there is a TPF fund request for wxPerl documentation
14:15 azawawi i started a while ago indexing wxwidgets html docs for Padre's help search... then i stopped.
14:16 azawawi could be more useful if i had some C++-to-perl method signatures
14:16 rindolf szabgab: I fixed the problematic pages on the Padre site.
14:16 rindolf szabgab: the CSS doesn't validate now, because it contains some extensions.
14:16 teejay I can generate pod for perl
14:17 rindolf At least not according to the W3C CSS validator.
14:17 teejay I'd really like to be able to generate pod for XS stuff
14:17 azawawi like?
14:17 teejay wonder if I could get a TPF grant for that
14:17 teejay probably not cool enough
14:17 rindolf teejay: you can havea  POD in a separate .pm file.
14:18 teejay er.. yes
14:18 teejay that's not the hard bit
14:18 szabgab rindolf, thanks
14:18 rindolf szabgab: yw.
14:18 teejay getting the names, arguments, etc of methods etc is the tricky bit
14:19 teejay although it *should* be really simple given some knowledge of xs/swig
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14:27 Sewi Ping (someone using Padre on Windows)
14:28 rindolf Sewi: azawawi I think.
14:28 rindolf And Alias
14:29 azawawi yup vista and xp...
14:30 Sewi If you've a minute... would you try the following, please? Klick on "Open file" (toolbar or menu, doesn't matter) and type "*.txt" (or any other extension you have in the selected dir) in the filename line. You may change the directory before, if you want.
14:31 Sewi On Linux, a empty file named "*.txt" is created, the same on windows?
14:31 Sewi (If so, be careful not to remove all your text files when removing the new file!)
14:32 Alias On windows, it filters by exception
14:32 Alias er, filters by extension
14:33 Sewi Ok, so this is a linux only problem. I'll face it as soon as I find some time to do so...
14:33 Sewi thx
14:34 Hyppolit svn: r7617 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7617
14:34 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] improve the steps to using minicpan in BUILDING.txt
14:34 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
14:37 Hyppolit svn: r7618 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7618
14:37 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] Fixed a typo
14:37 Hyppolit trunk/Perl-Dist-Padre/
14:39 MoC joined #padre
14:45 rindolf Sewi: I can confirm.
14:48 szabgab I want to have an N900 now!
14:49 azawawi why? :)
14:50 szabgab so I can run perl on my phone?
14:51 azawawi symbian?
14:51 szabgab Linux
14:51 Alias It's in all Google Android phones from next year
14:51 azawawi what flavor of Linux are on N900?
14:52 azawawi is that supposed to be what they called booklet (aka netbook...)
14:52 szabgab it is Debian based called maemo 5
14:52 Alias URL?
14:53 szabgab http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;​client=firefox-a&amp;rls=com.ubuntu%3Ae​n-US%3Aunofficial&amp;q=n900+linux&amp;​btnG=Search&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=&amp;aqi=
14:53 MoC joined #padre
14:53 szabgab http://marnanel.dreamwidth.org/24385.html
14:53 azawawi szabgab: I am following your six package content to generate one of my own...
14:53 azawawi szabgab: do u have a script to generate it?
14:53 Alias oh dear
14:54 szabgab azawawi, no
14:54 Alias That phone reminds me of those enormous old communicators
14:54 Alias They were 9-series too
14:54 azawawi phones are supposed to be slim and small :)
14:54 azawawi and stable :)
14:58 azawawi when are we going to release the next "Almost Six"? I am thinking of creating a cpan package for rakudo binary to make upgrading easier...
14:59 Alias It's 2cm thick!
14:59 Alias azawawi: The six package sits at C:\strawberry\six
15:00 Alias So it would be damned tricky to install, since it sits outside of the normal install paths
15:02 Alias It's a damned big phone, but it's a VERY small linux box
15:08 azawawi i consider netbooks to be the ideal linux boxes...
15:09 azawawi nokia is going to enter that market with something called a booklet...
15:10 Alias http://maemo.nokia.com/
15:10 Alias Sexiest Linux promotion video ever
15:10 szbalint I'm going to get one
15:10 szbalint :)
15:12 Alias I think I'll wait for reviews first
15:12 Alias That screen looks a bit dinky
15:12 Alias (Compared to iPhone)
15:17 Alias Id does have a gig of ram though
15:17 Alias Which means it actually will handle Perl :)
15:19 azawawi another release of M:B 0.35 is on the way... i saw it in minicpan
15:19 Hyppolit svn: r7619 | daxim++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7619
15:19 Hyppolit modernise Build system, add tests
15:19 Hyppolit
15:19 Hyppolit * Tests for HTML validity and spelling.
15:19 Hyppolit
15:19 Alias huh?
15:19 Hyppolit * Template locations in subdirectories are now (not only a flat directory).
15:19 Hyppolit
15:19 Hyppolit * Removed the chmod 0644 of the target directory because it interfered.
15:19 Alias 0.35001?
15:19 Hyppolit No idea why it was there in the first place.
15:19 Hyppolit
15:19 Hyppolit * Added a stub for an install target.
15:20 Hyppolit
15:20 Hyppolit * Module deps changed (excluding modules in core):
15:20 Hyppolit -File::Find::Rule
15:20 Hyppolit -Pod::Usage::CommandLine
15:20 Hyppolit +Capture::Tiny
15:20 Alias Oh I just love the term "Modernise"
15:20 Hyppolit +File::Next
15:20 Hyppolit +File::Which
15:20 Hyppolit +Path::Class
15:20 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/build/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/inc/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/inc/Local/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/inc/Local/Padre/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.​org/inc/Local/Padre/Website/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/t/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
15:20 Alias It means "I changed it to my favourite..."
15:20 Hyppolit svn: r7620 | daxim++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7620
15:20 Hyppolit fix spelling
15:20 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/developers/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/translators/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
15:20 Sewi Alias++
15:20 daxim it means we have tests now, grumpy smurf.
15:20 Alias A bit like the way "Best Practices" usually means "My Practices"
15:51 rindolf daxim: thanks for your HTML validation help yesterday.
15:51 daxim no thanks
15:51 Alias Personally, I love that one
15:51 Alias "Dear, this this nice girl at church you should meet"
15:51 Alias "Did you meet anyone interesting on your holiday?{"
15:52 daxim I wrote tests so mistakes can't happen easily anymore now
15:52 daxim by shub-internet, Alias, you make less sense every day
15:58 szabgab Alias, what is that quote?
16:14 Alias Which quote?
16:14 daxim what you pasted some 20 minutes ago.
16:16 Alias I pasted three
16:16 Alias The last two are the sort of thing my grandmother says
16:16 Alias But she's been around the block a time or two
16:17 Alias So she speaks with an implicit s/meet/fuck/
16:17 MoC joined #padre
16:17 Alias I think most grandmothers do
16:17 Su-Shee joined #padre
16:17 Su-Shee heyho.
16:17 daxim 'lo
16:18 szabgab hi Su-Shee
16:18 szabgab I am just off to have dinner but will be back later
16:18 * Su-Shee gets dinner delivered. ;)
16:19 * daxim is an expert food hacker
16:20 * Su-Shee just started a new job, I'm to tired to hack my vegetables myself these days. ;)
16:37 Alias szabgab: I have a cunning plan
16:37 Alias 1. Set up that voting for features website
16:38 Alias 2. Ask TPF for a special Padre development fund
16:38 Alias 3. Allocate extra votes to people that donate
16:39 Alias 4. Spend money on making Padre/website/etc prettier, and on shippable CDs etc
16:39 Alias And if your children are cute, we buy them an acrylic-mounted Padre butterfly and a professional photography session with it :)
16:40 * Alias is watching http://maemo.nokia.com/ and getting jealous of people with promotional talent
16:41 Su-Shee Alias: I'm constantly jealous of several ruby sites. ;)
16:41 Alias Apple and that link make Ruby look like Amateurs
16:41 * Su-Shee clicks as though she knows she'll regret it because of envy. ;)
16:42 Alias They both have that kind of elegance and sophistication to it
16:42 Alias Shinest ad for a linux ad ever made I think
16:42 Alias :)
16:42 * Alias wants Strawberry Professional ad similar
16:42 Alias sigh
16:42 Alias dreams
16:43 Su-Shee hm, ok, no I'm not jealous. they avoid really showing the UI
16:43 Alias Click the front page video
16:43 Su-Shee I did. ;)
16:43 Alias And yes, they are being a bit coy
16:44 Alias But hey, just like Britany Spear's music
16:44 Alias Shallow, but damned high production values
16:45 Alias Alas, I shall still probably get sucked into the iPhone monster
16:46 garu morning everyone!
16:46 * garu reads backlog
16:46 Alias evening
16:46 Alias Well, ok, morning
16:46 Alias Technically
16:52 Hyppolit svn: r7621 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7621
16:52 Hyppolit merged trunk bugfix r7611 to stable branch (bad Alias not double-committing :)
16:52 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/
16:53 Alias say what now?
16:53 * Alias doesn't pay much attention to branching
16:53 Alias (Even at work) :)
16:54 garu at least give me a heads up so I can do it for you :)
16:55 Alias I thought it was just forked off for language stuff
16:55 Alias What exactly do you want double-committed
16:55 garu translations -and- bugfixes :)
16:55 Alias Define a bug fix :)
16:56 Alias But ok, I take your point
16:57 garu if people might come here saying 'padre is crashing when I do X' and you fix it, it's a bug fix suited for the branch :)
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17:02 garu teejay, did you take a look at Padre/share/examples/wx/41-drag-image.pl? It uses Wx::Image (looking at the svn log it appears szabgab added it last night, so it might have been exactly for that purpose, I'm in "just in case" mode :)
17:03 szabgab Alias, any serious issue like a crash should go in the "stabelized" version of Padre
17:03 szabgab that is , it should go to the branch as well
17:03 szabgab and I hope garu will be able to figure out how to merge back things in the end
17:04 szabgab Alias, I don't think 2/3 can be done
17:04 garu szabgab, if everything on the branch is already fixed on trunk, there's no point in merging back
17:04 garu (except for translations)
17:05 szabgab garu, yes, if you know that for sure, then good for your :-)
17:05 garu heh
17:05 garu soon that'll be Ryan52's problem :P
17:06 Ryan52 who what o noez?
17:10 garu Sewi, there are some remarks on file filters (*.txt, etc) on different platforms in http://docs.wxwidgets.org/stable/​wx_wxfiledialog.html#wxfiledialog. Could this be a wx problem?
17:13 szabgab Up to 1GB of application memory (256 MB RAM, 768 MB virtual memory)
17:13 Ryan52 why do we use pip?
17:13 szabgab does that mean 768 Mb swap ?
17:14 Ryan52 I ask this because pip isn't packaged in Debian.
17:14 Ryan52 tho I really wish it were, so I'm not against this :)
17:14 szabgab Ryan52, then it should :-)
17:18 garu Ryan52, we use it to install cpan modules and padre plugins, I guess
17:19 szabgab is is not really used by padre but there is a menu option to use pip
17:19 Ryan52 okie doke.
17:24 azawawi joined #padre
17:24 azawawi good evening
17:25 garu hi azawawi
17:25 kentnl joined #padre
17:28 GabrielVieira__ joined #padre
17:28 shadowpaste "azawawi" at 212.38.158.13 pasted "Win32API-Registry dying on vista while building strawberry" (20 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33125
17:35 azawawi damn vista :)
17:41 azawawi Alias: is the windows farm up?
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18:00 Sewi garu: I guess that Wx on windows uses Microsoft "CommonControls".
18:00 Sewi *.txt is handled by them.
18:00 Sewi For Linux, either another library or a internal build solution seems to be used, I'ld guess the first.
18:01 Sewi It may also be a problem of the combination of Wx and gnome.
18:03 garu doesn't happen on kde and others?
18:04 Sewi My SuSE (KDE) linux workstation killed it's VGA card and I didn't replace it, so I can't test it with KDE.
18:05 Sewi I'm really not experience enough with Wx to integrate a *.txt extension filter, but I'ld catch this case in Padre.
18:06 Sewi I think of a message for wildcard matches (* and ? within the filename) and opening other files without creating an empty file (if this is possible).
18:06 * Sewi needs to bring the kiddies to bed...
18:09 szabgab Alias, I setup http://padre.uservoice.com/   , what now ?
18:10 azawawi szabgab: i couldnt build strawberry on vista... damn Win32API::Registry... it fails on build :(
18:10 azawawi :)
18:15 azawawi &
18:17 szabgab Su-Shee, so how are you?
18:20 Su-Shee szabgab: small in the face of 8000 lines of one perl module which I have to understand. ;) perl projects _can_ really grow. ;)
18:21 szabgab yeah it can really get out of hand
18:22 Su-Shee it's my first project in this league. 700.000 lines of perl.
18:23 szabgab yeah a few years ago I dealt witha  project with 4,000,000 lines of perl
18:23 szabgab it was lots of copy-paste and noone knew anything about the code
18:24 szabgab I found areas where a call to an extranal 20 lines long script could be replaces by a single regex
18:25 Su-Shee szabgab: yeah, I found a goto :)
18:25 Su-Shee szabgab: the perl in itself isn't bad though - just old and very grown.
18:25 szabgab actually goto in perl can sometimes be useful but it is still horrible
18:26 szabgab you know for skipping a level in the stack
18:26 szabgab though I think I never used it
18:27 garu Sewi, is there a ticket for this?
18:27 Su-Shee szabgab: I've never used it once or needed it.
18:29 rindolf Hi Su-Shee
18:30 Hinrik joined #padre
18:35 Sewi garu: No, I'll fix it myself. Should be done during the weekend.
18:35 Sewi (If noone is faster :) )
18:36 Sewi garu: There is another annoying thing... http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/479
18:36 Sewi If you want to fix something :-)
18:39 Sewi garu, alias: The *.txt IS (at least) a gnome problem. The ubuntu default texteditor does the same.
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19:36 qp_pq how do I get the selected item off of a Wx::ListCtrl ?
19:36 qp_pq ->GetSelection doesn't exist
19:36 qp_pq using Wx over here
19:37 Sewi qp_pq: Look at the preferences dialog, there should be a ListCtrl (afair)
19:37 szabgab qp_pq, I don't remember but have you grepped the Padre source code for that ?
19:37 szabgab or the Wx::Demo source code?
19:41 qp_pq the Wx::Demo  code yes
19:41 qp_pq Padre's source code no
19:41 GabrielVieira_ joined #padre
19:43 * qp_pq grepping the Padre ... now in FunctionList.pm
19:44 qp_pq hmm .. no trace
19:45 szabgab then pick the place where you have an example :)
19:47 qp_pq the problem is that it should have a getselection method
19:47 qp_pq but it doesn't
19:47 qp_pq the only thing it does have is an event handler for selection
19:47 qp_pq which is not bad but...still..
19:48 szabgab have you checked the documentation ?
19:48 qp_pq there is none that I could find
19:49 qp_pq only docs arre for Wx::Perl::ListCtrl which is not what I'm using ( I'm using Wx::ListCtrl )
19:50 szabgab http://docs.wxwidgets.org/2.8.1​0/wx_wxlistctrl.html#wxlistctrl
19:53 qp_pq szabgab: all of that api is implemented in Perl ?
19:53 qp_pq szabgab: for example GetNextItem seems to do what I want
19:53 qp_pq totally nonintuitive name...
19:53 szabgab I don't know but I guess so
19:54 szabgab if not then an rt ticket should be opened for wxPerl
20:00 qp_pq szabgab: man I must say I found the answer on wxperl-users mailing list
20:00 qp_pq Wx::ListView seems to be another interface to Wx::ListCtrl
20:00 szabgab congrats
20:01 qp_pq and while Wx::ListCtrl does not put at your disposal methods for the selected item
20:01 qp_pq Wx::ListView does
20:01 qp_pq but really , this should be methodically documented and it's not , I'm left with a mailing list , some sampel code which is incomplete
20:02 qp_pq I will use Wx becuase I started using it and because there  is Padre , a big project where I can come and ask some questions about it
20:02 qp_pq other alternatives would have been Tk(not very good) , Gtk or Qt
20:02 qp_pq but I won't go into those :D
20:03 qp_pq szabgab: thanks
20:03 szabgab qp_pq, the best you might do now is to write a simple stand-alone example with those modules and add it to the list of our examples
20:03 szabgab in share/examples/wx
20:04 qp_pq share/examples/wx is located where ?
20:04 szabgab in trunk/Padre
20:04 szabgab 1 sec
20:04 qp_pq actually I'm writing a new distribution for cpan called Backup::Email
20:04 qp_pq which has Backup::Email::GUI
20:05 qp_pq it's an application for backing up your configurattion files to your email :D
20:05 szabgab http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/Padre/
20:05 szabgab there are the examples
20:05 szabgab and they also get installed with Padre
20:06 szabgab and one day we might wrap it with some more text
20:06 szabgab for what os are you writing that application ?
20:06 qp_pq I want to write it for both Windows and Linux
20:06 qp_pq Wx is portable from what I know
20:06 szabgab yes
20:06 qp_pq I'm currently writing it on Windows
20:07 szabgab oh good
20:07 qp_pq I'm having some problems finding a module that archives(compresses) a set of files and preserves the directory structure
20:07 qp_pq also I need to find how I can get attachments using Mail::IMAPClient
20:07 szabgab there should be some but I don't know that space
20:08 szabgab Tar::* ? Archive::* ?
20:08 qp_pq I will check , it also has to be portable
20:08 qp_pq szabgab: how can I have wxperl-users offline I'd really make good use of it
20:08 qp_pq ?
20:09 szabgab what do you mean wxperl-users?
20:09 qp_pq the mailing list
20:09 szabgab the archive?
20:09 qp_pq yes
20:09 szabgab no idea
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20:55 Sewi Hi
20:56 DeathBlack hi
20:56 DeathBlack ;D
21:03 Su-Shee left #padre
21:06 szabgab hi DeathBlack
21:06 Sewi good night...
21:07 DeathBlack ^^
21:49 qp_pq is the GetColumn method implemented for Wx::ListCtrl ?
21:49 qp_pq and if so , how do I use it ?
21:49 qp_pq I'm trying to get the data in a column at a particular row in a Wx:ListCtrl object
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22:36 qp_pq joined #padre
22:57 DeathBlack hmm
22:57 DeathBlack < going to bed right now ;
22:57 DeathBlack gn8 ^^;

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