Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-09-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:17 teejay joined #padre
00:35 asdf joined #padre
00:57 Alias bricas: It was on purpose, someone decided to make the website flexible width instead of fixed width
00:57 Alias I'm not sure they bother to test with a 22inch widescreen LCD though :)
00:59 bricas Alias: seems to be the case. :)
02:42 CSJewell joined #padre
02:53 garu skeeterbug, heya, thanks for that report! I'll release a new version of the plugin together with Padre 0.45
03:22 mohsen joined #padre
03:32 szabgab garu, any news?
03:32 szabgab and good morning
03:32 garu szabgab, 12am here, but good morning :)
03:32 garu yeah, I plan on releasing 0.45 now
03:32 garu so it'll be all Ryan52's :)
03:32 szabgab 0.45 at 00:45 ?
03:32 garu hmmm... numerology :)
03:33 Ryan52 garu: pfft..you said that about last night too. :P
03:34 garu yeah, but last night my internet connection went away
03:35 garu szabgab, I'm having a good feeling about this sdl revamp thing, btw... your logoish plugin might come in handy
03:35 szabgab it needs a lot of rethinking
03:36 szabgab take a look at http://scratch.mit.edu/
03:50 GabrielVieira_ joined #padre
04:13 Alias joined #padre
04:22 pece joined #padre
04:26 pece joined #padre
04:27 azawawi joined #padre
04:27 azawawi good morning
04:31 Alias Afternoon
04:32 azawawi i sparked all this... http://stevan-little.blogspot.com/​2009/09/re-moose-or-no-moose.html
04:32 azawawi not bad :)
04:33 CSJewell joined #padre
04:33 azawawi hey CSJewell !
04:34 CSJewell Hello.
04:35 Ryan52 azawawi: nice
04:35 azawawi we received  a fair amount of free Padre marketing from Array::Compare's Moose dependency...
04:36 Ryan52 btw, if there's something that needs to be ported away from Array::Compare, please let me help. I need some work to do :).
04:36 Alias I emailed him directly as well :)
04:36 azawawi we did not need it... it was an old dependency...
04:37 Alias Ryan52: The problem was that Test::Warn used to use it, until just recently
04:37 Ryan52 ah
04:37 Alias 860 other modules used Test::Warn
04:37 Ryan52 meh.
04:37 Alias Array::Compare is now only used by like 6 things
04:37 CSJewell azawawi: Anything you need answered?
04:37 Alias All of which look like they aren't hurt too much by Moose
04:37 azawawi CSJewell: not really...
04:39 azawawi Alias: So what is next on Padre's roadmap?
04:40 Ryan52 got anything else useful I can do?
04:40 Ryan52 :P
04:40 Alias Whoa, volunteers for arbitrary work? :)
04:40 Alias Things We Need To Do:
04:40 * azawawi listens
04:41 Alias 1. Replace ack with our own version, so we can do sane things like aborting and better file ignoring
04:41 Alias 2. Leverage that to add Find/Replace in multiple files
04:41 Alias That will let finally complete the milestone "Get Adam Kennedy onto Padre" :)
04:42 Alias 3. Fix our broken newline handling (it's embarrasing)
04:42 Alias 4. Fix the background file change detector so that it handles delete sanely
04:43 Alias "File deleted, would you like to lose all your work and just have a useless blank editor panel?"
04:43 Alias That's the list of stuff that seems really obvious stupid/buggy
04:43 Alias To me, anyway
04:43 Ryan52 "Replace ack with our own version"
04:43 azawawi Alias: how about putting them on Padre's roadmap?
04:43 Ryan52 I can take that on if you aren't already planning on doing it.
04:43 garu szabgab, apparently having people commit their work on the "stable branch" was a huge fail
04:44 Alias I'm hugely overcomitted atm
04:44 Ryan52 Alias: aren't you always? :)
04:44 Alias Now more than normal
04:44 garu only zipf committed a spanish update
04:44 Alias garu: Part of the joy of Padre is that you don't have to think about branches and all that gumph
04:44 Alias :)
04:44 garu Alias, I hear ya
04:44 Ryan52 garu: did anybody commit to trunk?
04:44 azawawi Alias: how much is your normal cpu load? :)
04:44 garu yeah :/
04:44 Ryan52 I mean translation updates.
04:45 garu sewi did
04:45 Alias Ryan52: Normally?
04:45 Alias 1-3 cores :)
04:45 Ryan52 garu: so then just copy that to the branch! :)
04:45 Alias Not quite as easy in svn as it is in git
04:45 Alias Note: That's not an excuse to move to git
04:45 Alias :)
04:46 Ryan52 Alias said something good about git? knowing about your giant svn repo, I woulda assumed you're against git. guess I assumed wrong. :)
04:46 garu Ryan52, I'm affraid it contains other messages, as it is not synced with the messages.pot on the branch
04:46 Alias Oh I'm certainly against git
04:46 garu (he diligently updated messages.pot before updating the translation)
04:46 Alias Trouble is that the usefulness of git increases as a project gets bigger
04:46 Alias I just have a zillion tiny projects, for which git is almost entirely pointless most of the time
04:47 Alias Padre has one giant one with lots of people hacking on it, plus lots of little ones
04:47 Alias Sell, two big projects
04:47 Alias Well,
04:47 Alias The Perl 6 plugin is pretty big too
04:47 Alias So Padre is heading in the direction for which git is very useful
04:47 Alias Of course, it still sucks horribly on Win32... so it's not time yet
04:47 azawawi git is not as user-friendly as svn atm
04:47 Alias yup
04:48 Ryan52 easygit!
04:48 Alias I (reluctantly) gave up proper branching in CVS for svn specifically because more people were contributing
04:48 garu I wonder... why rewrite ack? Why not improve it?
04:48 Alias Easier for them to just do stuff
04:49 Ryan52 Alias: so what exactly does this ack replacement (or improvement, garu) need different from ack?
04:49 szabgab headline "Alias wants to move to git"  ;-)
04:49 azawawi szbalint: gm
04:50 azawawi oops
04:50 azawawi szabgab: gm
04:50 szabgab go ahead, wake him up too :-)
04:50 * azawawi damn autocompletion :)
04:51 Alias Or in a fairly tightly coupled thread
04:51 Alias Having recursive search as a separate command line process is... limiting
04:51 Alias 1. Display progress
04:51 Alias 2. Easily cancellable
04:51 Alias szabgab: heh
04:51 Alias I do keep saying I think git is inevitable, just not for a while till they don't suck
04:51 Topic for #padreis now Alias wants to move Padre to git!
04:51 Topic for #padreis now Latest Padre is 0.44, for installation see http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download | Log: http://perlide.org/irclogs/ and http://irclog.perlgeek.de/padre/today | Pasting: http://scsys.co.uk:8001
04:51 CSJewell I would rephrase #1 as "Make App::Ack a module that isn't so 'appy'".
04:52 garu just teasing... it's been a long day :P
04:52 azawawi I have several things to complete over this weekend: help search and topics, more indexing, and more testing of sdl perl over win32 with the #sdl people
04:52 Alias CSJewell: Well, one of those things
04:52 Alias 1. Wx-integrated event-mode search in the foreground
04:52 szabgab actually I made quite a lot of change in App::Ack so it can be part of a GUI application
04:52 Alias 2. Possibly callback-triggering non-app ack in a thread
04:52 szabgab all the print_  functions are there for that reason
04:53 Alias szabgab: Do you shell out?
04:53 szabgab maybe in padre we shell out I don't remember but I wrote a module App::Wack
04:53 szabgab which was a GTK GUI for Ack that did not shell out
04:54 szabgab I think
04:54 Ryan52 szabgab: what happened to it?
04:54 Ryan52 it's apparently not on CPAN anymore..
04:54 Ryan52 or at least from search.cpan.org's point of view.
04:54 szabgab I removed it
04:54 Ryan52 why?
04:55 szabgab as I have not maintained it and noone on the ack list was interested
04:55 szabgab it was really very limited GUI
04:56 Ryan52 sounds like it'd be useful now..
04:56 Ryan52 for reference..
04:56 szabgab http://svn1.hostlocal.com/szabgab/trunk/wack/
04:56 szabgab there is the svn repo
04:59 szabgab btw I wonder if switching Padre to Moose would bring in a few more developers
05:00 szabgab like Stvn who thinks the start-up time of and IDE has to be long enough to have your morning coffee :-)
05:00 azawawi szabgab: more publicity vs startup time :)
05:01 Ryan52 hah
05:04 azawawi CSJewell: did u force install Win32API::Registry, Win32::TieRegistry and Wx::Perl::ProcessStream since they fail in test stage on vista ?
05:04 Hyppolit svn: r7676 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7676
05:04 Hyppolit sync'd fayland's zh-cn translation update (r7622 on trunk)
05:04 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/share/locale/
05:04 CSJewell No. I built on XP or 2003, so never had to. Passes there.
05:05 azawawi CSJewell: that's my list of stuff that fails on vista atm
05:05 azawawi CSJewell: if it fails on vista, it would probably fail on win7
05:05 azawawi CSJewell: but otherwise no side-effects to Padre's operation
05:06 CSJewell Fun :( We need to get Win32API::Registry's author on the case as to why the tests fail.
05:06 CSJewell OK. Sounds good.
05:07 azawawi CSJewell: btw, what's the status of "Almost Six"? :)
05:07 CSJewell No change so far.
05:08 CSJewell [I'm almost done with rearranging Perl::Dist::WiX's innards...]
05:08 azawawi cool
05:08 * azawawi takes a look at rakudo's next release date
05:09 azawawi CSJewell:   2009-09-17   Rakudo #21 "Seattle"            (particle)
05:09 CSJewell [The other two modules are victims of a cascading failure, I think.
05:10 azawawi CSJewell: Wx::Perl::ProcessStream fails for timing issues if i recall correctly...
05:10 azawawi CSJewell: random cases
05:10 CSJewell heisenbugs.
05:10 CSJewell There are a few of those in Perl's test chain.  It's annoying.
05:11 CSJewell [Time::Hires and op/alarm are the ones I'm thinking of. I'm certain Alias could tell you about a few more.]
05:11 Hyppolit svn: r7677 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7677
05:11 Hyppolit updated translator info, from fayland's r7625 trunk commit
05:11 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Wx/
05:11 azawawi CSJewell: an option to skip Perl's test would be useful. Or simply use a prebuilt binary package
05:12 CSJewell I finally got some good news this evening...
05:12 azawawi alright
05:12 CSJewell Skipping perl only: That's a very good idea - I should add that with this rearrangement...
05:13 Sewi joined #padre
05:13 CSJewell (I don't like building a dist I'm going to release completely forced - I might just miss a problem that way.)
05:13 azawawi hmmm how about testing for vista then
05:16 azawawi CSJewell: OR we could use that eval { } and then force trick i told you about earlier when installing modules...
05:16 azawawi CSJewell: if it fails show the failure's reason on STDOUT and then force it...
05:17 Hyppolit svn: r7678 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7678
05:17 Hyppolit applied waxhead's documentation fix (r7628 of trunk)
05:17 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Wx/
05:18 azawawi CSJewell: how late is it over there?
05:18 CSJewell 11:18pm.
05:18 azawawi 8:18am here
05:19 CSJewell I'll be building on Vista soon enough, I think.
05:19 azawawi CSJewell: i have a folder under c:\tools\scratchy that would help you...
05:20 Hyppolit svn: r7679 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7679
05:20 Hyppolit applied Alias's PluginManager bugfix (r7630 of trunk)
05:20 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/
05:22 azawawi I wonder what happened to the padre linux distro thing that szabgab was working on
05:24 azawawi sleep & # first vacation day :)
05:25 garu I haven't found the time to retest shipwright... :(
05:28 Hyppolit svn: r7680 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7680
05:28 Hyppolit updated italian translation (sblandin++) - r7630 from trunk
05:28 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/share/locale/
05:30 garu oh boy
05:30 garu how on earth am I going to merge that?! --> http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7664
05:31 * garu prays no one else touched Main.pm... this way I can just copy it over the previous one
05:31 Sewi good morning
05:32 garu Sewi, morning!
05:32 garu Sewi, just cursing you :)
05:32 garu Sewi, can you please give me a hand on updating your bugfixes and translations to the stable branch?
05:33 Sewi garu: Sorry, I ran Tidy and (for the first time) didn't do a svn diff :-(
05:34 garu Sewi, no worries, it happens
05:35 garu Sewi, if you could help me with the translation you did, it'd be great
05:36 Sewi Just a moment...
05:36 garu I mean, the branch is using a different messages.pot
05:37 garu and I'm completely ignorant on gettext, so I have no idea if I can (a) just cp the new .po file (b) cp both messages.pot and the new .po
05:37 garu or something else entirely
05:37 garu anyone has a clue?
05:37 Ryan52 garu: Sewi put it back afterwards.
05:37 Ryan52 garu: so it should be easy to get the specific change.
05:37 garu Ryan52, well volunteered :)
05:38 Sewi garu: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/brows​er/trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Main.pm
05:38 rindolf joined #padre
05:38 Sewi Line 2808 up to 2847
05:38 rindolf Hi all.
05:39 Sewi Hi Rindolf
05:39 rindolf Sewi: hi, what's up?
05:39 szabgab garu are you sure this way we will reach a version of Padre that is more stable than what we have on the branch?
05:39 szabgab wouldn't it be better and simpler just to take a few of the translations, merge them to the branch and release it that way?
05:40 garu szabgab, it's already done
05:40 garu except for sewi's german one
05:40 garu I thought we were deploying translations and bugfixes
05:41 garu szabgab, though, tbh, I don't think we had any significant changes to trunk
05:41 garu no new features at all from svn log Padre/
05:42 szabgab we might need to rethink this strategy of the "stable" release
05:42 garu we most definitely do
05:44 garu szabgab, anyway, since last week was really slow for Padre and only jq, zipf and myself committed to the branch, I think it's safe to just release the current trunk anyway
05:44 garu what do you think?
05:46 Sewi Garu: German is at 100% in branches/Padre-0.45
05:47 garu Sewi, cool, thanks!
05:47 garu I was worrying for nothing then :)
05:49 rindolf szabgab: does Padre have a view source feature?
05:49 szabgab then you are welcome to clean up the branch and releas from trunk
05:49 szabgab what would be a view source feature when viewing a perl source code file?  showing the bits?
05:50 skeeterbug left #padre
05:51 jq hi there
05:51 garu lol
05:51 garu hi jq! how's the pandemic going?
05:51 jq rindolf: regarding your dist::man post - you misunderstood how dist-zilla works
05:51 jq garu: 0.8.0 is out
05:51 jq mostly complete
05:52 jq missing special event cards, and propagation extension
05:52 jq but other than that, fully playable
05:52 jq (and not that easy sometimes :-) )
05:52 garu very cool
05:53 garu jq, any pt(pt|br) translation for it yet?
05:53 jq no
05:53 jq only french translation by me
05:53 garu hmmm
05:53 garu I'll see what I can do about it then :)
05:53 garu (sometime next week)
05:54 jq that would be cool
05:54 jq no hurry though
05:54 rindolf Hi jq
05:54 skeeterb` joined #padre
05:54 rindolf jq: doesn't D-Z generate stuff from templates?
05:55 jq no
05:55 jq it just mangles your files
05:55 rindolf jq: ah.
05:55 rindolf jq: well, I'll take a better look at D-Z.
05:56 jq that's the beauty of it
05:56 rindolf jq: it has an MDV package, right?
05:56 jq everything that can (and will change) is not written by you, nor even present in your version of the file
05:56 jq yes, perl-Dist-Zilla
05:56 jq and perl-Dist-Zilla-Plugin-*
05:57 jq eg: no "our $VERSION = ..." ever in your code
05:57 jq it's added automatically for you
05:57 jq so, no need for a command to update all your files
05:57 jq see the difference with module-starter and other stuff like that?
05:57 jq your ocde is bare to the minimum
05:58 Alias CSJewell: The Win32API::Registry author is a pretty average dev
05:59 CSJewell Not a gone dev, then...
06:00 rindolf jq: I don't want that.
06:00 CSJewell & # asleep
06:00 rindolf jq: if someone adds an our $VERSION line in a .pm file, then the line numbers will be skewed.
06:01 rindolf jq: from the original source to the one that ships on CPAN.
06:01 jq i can understand tha
06:01 jq however, it's not template-based
06:01 rindolf jq: BTW, would you be interested in packaging http://perl-begin.org/ as a Mandriva package.
06:02 rindolf jq: we've been discussing the same for Debian on #toolchain  and stuff.
06:02 jq what is it?
06:02 * jq packages perl modules
06:02 jq i'm not that interested in packaging other stuff
06:03 rindolf jq: ah.
06:03 jq but mail to cooker@ or iopen a rfe on qa.mandriva.com, maybe someone will step in
06:03 jq (and i thought you were a mandriva contributor)
06:04 Alias Win32API::Registry guy was a newby at the time that I convinced him to take it over from the previous author
06:05 Alias I thought it would be good experience for him
06:05 kaare joined #padre
06:05 Alias In retrospect (now that I actually care about Win32 more) it may have been a not so good choice
06:15 Alias szabgab: TBH, I think at this point moving to Moose wouldn't really buy us much
06:15 Alias We're hurt more by Wx than by not being Moosy
06:15 Alias Half our Moose code would be thin wrappers around Wx code
06:15 Alias Not to mention all the Wx objects are XS'y
06:16 Alias Their accessors don't actually have slots in the hash
06:16 Alias And that makes for a rather interesting object model
06:18 Hyppolit svn: r7681 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7681
06:18 Hyppolit merged translations from stable branch back to trunk (es-es, fr-fr, pt-br)
06:18 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
06:23 rindolf jq: I was.
06:24 rindolf jq: I'm just not sure I can add new packages.
06:24 rindolf jq: regarding being a Mandriva contributor.
06:30 rindolf Alias: do you think a different UI toolkit can be better than Wx?
06:34 awnstudio joined #padre
06:36 jq then ask for the needed rights
06:37 rindolf jq: OK.
06:37 jq open a bug on bugzilla
06:38 rindolf jq: OK.
06:39 jq and add this bug as blocker for bug https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=50897
06:40 Alias rindolf: Based on our main criteria, not currently
06:40 Alias rindolf: Other toolkits are better in certain dimensions (MOST are better in the "easy to write code for" dimension)
06:41 Alias But that's not really one of the selection criteria
06:41 Alias We have an infinite project scope
06:41 Alias Whether the widgets are easy to code against or hard, it's still infinite :)
06:46 rindolf jq: OK.
06:46 Alias rindolf: The primary selection criteria is that Padre looks "native" on all three major desktop environments
06:47 szabgab Alias, the question (re Moose) if it would bring in some more good developers and if the cost justifies it (namely we will have to deal with those good developers :-)
06:47 Alias I doubt it
06:47 Alias I'm not hugely interested in that group
06:47 Alias Comparitively anyway
06:47 Alias I'm much more impressed by seeing your name in the DreamWidth weekly report
06:48 szabgab their code is really horrid
06:48 Alias And salivating at the idea of absorbing a chunk of that community, since they are our prime userbase
06:48 szabgab not their fault though
06:48 szabgab they inherited from LJ
06:48 * Alias nods
06:49 szabgab they will need a remote editor
06:49 Alias Let us know if there's anything you think we could do to make Padre more attractive for hacking on it
06:49 Alias Define remote?
06:49 szabgab as setting up DW on your desktop is hard
06:49 Alias What channel?
06:49 szabgab edit via ssh
06:49 Alias ok
06:49 szabgab that's number one
06:49 Alias So Load and Save via SSH is the main feature we need?
06:49 Alias And then after that remote debugging?
06:50 szabgab and number two, they have their own php -like thingy called bml
06:50 szabgab yes remote debugging would be cool too
06:50 szabgab but the load/save via ssh is really needed
06:50 szabgab and maybe other actions via ssh (search and replace)
06:51 szabgab I don't know how that would work
06:52 szabgab btw the main channel of dw development is #dw on xb95.com
06:53 szabgab but their development model is very slow
06:53 Alias It would work by us adding a storage API
06:53 szabgab for every change you create a patch, add it to bugzilla, someone approves it and commits it
06:53 Alias We'd need to abstract away the file store
06:54 szabgab probably
06:54 Alias It would end up that way
06:54 Alias Once you have local files and SSH, of course you probably need to add FTP as well
06:54 szabgab yes sure
06:54 Hyppolit svn: r7682 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7682
06:54 Hyppolit removed obsolete 0.45 stable branch
06:54 Hyppolit branches/
06:55 Alias And once you've are trying for three, it's almost impossible to maintain without a unified front end
06:55 szabgab many companies, especially in the field of security use edit over ftp
06:55 Alias So you end up with Padre::FileSystem like a million other thing
06:59 Hyppolit svn: r7683 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7683
06:59 Hyppolit tidying up files for release
06:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/CPAN/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
07:03 Hyppolit svn: r7684 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7684
07:03 Hyppolit created new release branch for 0.45 stable
07:03 Hyppolit branches/
07:08 Sewi There are sshfs and ftpfs. I'm currently using sshfs for some projects and it works good.
07:08 Sewi What about a frontend for both in Padre as the first step?
07:09 szabgab ftpfs and sshfs, on what os-es?
07:09 Sewi At least on Linux. Hmm, don't know if there is an sshfs for Windows.
07:09 Alias Sewi: The current problem is less about the actual mechanism for doing the transform
07:10 Alias Sewi: It's mostly about how our Document/Editor model is fairly crap
07:10 Sewi An "ftpfs" replacement is included in Windows since '95 or 2k
07:10 Alias It's a huge source of bugs atm
07:10 rindolf Sewi: you mean WebDAV?
07:10 * Alias wants to attempt a rewrite of Document/Editor some time after I've got my search itches working
07:10 Sewi rindolf: No.
07:11 Sewi Open a Windows explorer (Not internet explorer) and type into the location bar: ftp://ftp.cpan.org/
07:11 Sewi Or ftp://user@your.server.xx/
07:11 szabgab in terms of use-case I think the bigges need is to be able to run on a windows box and open/save files via ssh
07:12 Sewi Works good for read and write and most Win Apps could use ftp and http URLs for opening files.
07:14 Hyppolit svn: r7685 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7685
07:14 Hyppolit updated changes file for 0.45 stable release
07:14 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/
07:18 rindolf Sewi: ah, like Konqueror?
07:18 rindolf I really like the KParts stuff in KDE.
07:18 Sewi rindolf: I think Konqueror has it too.
07:19 rindolf Sewi: yes.
07:19 rindolf Sewi: it also has sftp:// and fish:// etc.
07:24 Sewi There was one issue when saving over sshfs: Padre wrote the file but the mtime was updated by the remote server after the file had been transmitted which resulted in "File has changed on disk" messages in Padre. But I fixed if some time ago.
07:28 Hyppolit svn: r7686 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7686
07:28 Hyppolit updated version number for 0.45 release
07:28 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.45/lib/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Config/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/DB/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/DocBrowser/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Document/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/HelpProvider/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padre/Plugin/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padr​e/Plugin/PopularityContest/ branches/Padre-0.45/lib/Padr
07:29 Fayland joined #padre
07:30 garu hmm... release.pl was updated
07:30 Alias Sewi: If we put in place a filesystem API, then we could at least tie it into a plugin
07:31 Alias So we can get experience with things that don't work everywhere yet, and fix them for particular platforms as an independent step
07:31 Sewi Alias: yes.
07:31 Alias OK
07:32 Alias I'll put myself down for a Document 2.0 job after I'm done with find and replace
07:32 Alias Man, whatever it is, it's gunna hurt a lot when it lands
07:32 Alias Breaky breaky
07:34 Sewi Alias: A internal storage layer with plugins for ssh, ftp and open for others would be best.
07:40 Hyppolit svn: r7687 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7687
07:40 Hyppolit fixed typo on usage text
07:40 Hyppolit trunk/tools/
07:40 Alias Sewi: ATM, the concepts of File, Document, and Editor are far too intertwined
07:41 Alias To solve the filesystem layer you basically have to redo all of the core document workflow concepts
07:41 Alias It's gunna suck
07:41 Alias However, fixing it should make fixing things like what to do when files dissapear, detecting duplicate editors, etc easier
07:41 Alias Theoretically
07:59 garu ok, 0.45 created and tested successfully. tagging
08:07 Hyppolit svn: r7688 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7688
08:07 Hyppolit tag Padre-0.45
08:07 Hyppolit tags/
08:10 garu http://rio.pm.org/projetos/Padre-0.45.tar.gz
08:11 garu everyone, I present you your baby :)
08:11 garu please try to install it
08:11 garu szabgab, around?
08:11 Ryan52 hehe
08:13 szabgab garu, yup
08:13 garu szabgab, care to test the new release please? :)
08:13 szabgab piping
08:14 garu and upload the package to  http://perlide.org/download/source/   ?  :)
08:15 garu Ryan52, did it work there?
08:16 szabgab still running the tests...
08:17 Ryan52 garu: I'm not testing it.
08:17 Ryan52 I reserve the right to be useless after midnight. :)
08:17 garu Ryan52,  :(
08:17 garu it's 5am here!!!!
08:17 garu ;)
08:17 garu sleeping is for the weak
08:17 garu I have "OK" on ubuntu 8.10 btw
08:18 szabgab garu, it worked, and I uploaded it to  http://perlide.org/download/source/
08:18 szabgab thank you!
08:18 garu szabgab, no, thank you!
08:19 * garu uploads to PAUSE
08:20 * garu receives PAUSE email #1
08:21 * garu receives PAUSE email #2
08:21 garu email #3 received, status OK
08:21 garu \o/
08:22 Topic for #padreis now Latest Padre is 0.45, for installation see http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download | Log: http://perlide.org/irclogs/ and http://irclog.perlgeek.de/padre/today | Pasting: http://scsys.co.uk:8001
08:23 Ryan52 there's 3?
08:24 * Ryan52 only remembers 2..
08:24 * Ryan52 hasn't uploaded to PAUSE in a while tho..
08:24 garu no problem
08:24 * garu officially hands off the release monk^H^H manager's baton to Ryan52
08:24 Ryan52 :)
08:25 garu Ryan52, congratulations!!!
08:25 garu :)
08:26 garu thanks everyone for baring with my brief and clumsy work on the releases. It's been fun :)
08:26 garu it'll definitely be a whole lot more fun not having to do it though :)
08:27 szabgab garu++ Ryan52++  # can Hyppolit handle this?
08:30 garu Ryan52, I also updated the Release wiki, let me know if you have any questions
08:30 garu (when the time comes)
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08:38 Hyppolit svn: r7689 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7689
08:38 Hyppolit merge -r7684:7686 http://svn.perlide.org/padre/branches/Padre-0.45/
08:38 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Config/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DB/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DocBrowser/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/HelpProvider/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/PopularityContest/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Project/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/QuickFixProvider/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Qu
08:38 garu CSJewell, ok, now you're free to do your thing :)
08:43 Hyppolit svn: r7690 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7690
08:43 Hyppolit removed 0.45 branch (release complete!)
08:43 Hyppolit branches/
08:44 Hyppolit svn: r7691 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7691
08:44 Hyppolit updated Changes file for Ryan52's upcoming 0.46
08:44 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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09:16 Hyppolit svn: r7692 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7692
09:16 Hyppolit included 0.45 release blog post
09:16 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
09:17 garu ok
09:17 garu that's it
09:18 garu now I sleep
09:18 garu g'night!
09:39 szabgab night
10:06 FL2 joined #padre
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10:16 waxhead evening...
10:19 Alias heya
10:25 waxhead hows things?
10:26 waxhead Alias: how much of the gui stuff do you know?
10:27 waxhead oooo moose in padre???
10:28 Alias hrm
10:28 Alias ActivePerl package...
10:28 Alias http://ppm4.activestate.com/MSWin32-x86/5.8/818​/G/GA/GARU/Padre-0.44.d/log-20090827T192338.txt
10:28 Alias Note what the error is at the end of the page
10:34 CSJewell I will admit that Alien::wxWidgets takes a LONG time to build. Certainly more than 5 minutes even if your build directory is a ramdrive.
10:37 Alias Yup
10:37 Alias I'll email Jan and see if he can bump up the timeout just for Alien::Wx
10:50 kaare_ joined #padre
10:58 kaare__ joined #padre
10:58 waxhead hmm I still can't get the test in the SVN plugin to skip with DISPLAY is no longer set when using release.pl
10:58 waxhead yet, prove t works fine when I remove DISPLAY
11:41 tsee joined #padre
11:49 waxhead hey tsee
11:50 tsee hi
11:56 aharoni joined #padre
11:57 aharoni hi
11:57 aharoni i'm back from a vacation and i'm trying to update the Hebrew translation of Padre
11:58 aharoni i'm using the windows installer v0.41
11:59 aharoni there's this English string - Project Tools (Left). Where does it appear? I can't find it in the actual GUI. Maybe it doesn't appear yet in the version that i am using.
12:01 Alias aharoni: Turn off "Lock Interface"
12:01 Alias It's the header for the collection of tools on the left hand side (which currently is only the directory browser)
12:06 aharoni i see "View->Lock User Interface"
12:07 aharoni but still no 'Project Tools'. I see "Workspace View".
12:08 daxim could really be that changed in the last 4 versions
12:08 daxim are you able to build from source?
12:10 aharoni i tried once, long ago and failed. didn't try recently. i'm using the Windows Installer.
12:10 aharoni as i said, maybe the version that i'm actually using doesn't have it.
12:10 daxim the other possibility is then to request whoever maintains the windows builds to do a new one
12:11 daxim that could be automated, I'd also like to see a continuous build for windows
12:12 daxim someone got some machines and licenses sponsored by microsoft last year, no idea what became out of that
12:13 CSJewell daxim: 1) I'm that maintainer, and I'll be updating within 1-2 weeks.
12:14 aharoni how nice :)
12:14 daxim is it a lot of steps and manual intervention until the final package then, I surmise?
12:15 CSJewell 2) The machines are up, go to #msopensource and http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/39318 for more information
12:16 aharoni CSJewell: i'll the opportunity and report something that's probably a bug:
12:16 Alias I changed Workspace View to Project Tools in 0.44 I think
12:16 waxhead daxim: that person was Alias
12:17 Alias daxim: I got the machines
12:17 daxim yeah, I just noticed
12:17 Alias The channel is #msopensource
12:17 aharoni CSJewell: when i click anything under File->New, i get the message "Can't locate object method "mime_type_by_extension" via package "Padre::Document::Perl" at C:/strawberry/perl/site/lib/Padre/Wx/Main.pm line 4022." and then the whole application crashes
12:18 aharoni (mibbit.com inserts stupid smilies)
12:18 CSJewell Yes, lots of steps, but not too much manual intervention, really. Clear steps are at https://svn.perlide.org/padre/tr​unk/Perl-Dist-Padre/BUILDING.txt.
12:20 aharoni joined #padre
12:20 CSJewell azawawi walked through that with me for about a week, daxim - he wanted to try it himself.
12:20 daxim oh nice, a comprehensive checklist
12:21 daxim that all looks easily automatable
12:21 daxim but the build time is srsly way too long
12:21 CSJewell aharoni: upgrade Padre. The package includes CPAN, so it's easy to do. Where's the URL for Audrey's entry on that subject?
12:21 daxim can a stage, say Alien::wxw be reused?
12:21 szabgab aharoni, in any case you should do the translation on trunk checked out from SVN
12:21 szabgab so you can later commit them
12:22 aharoni i do the translation on SVN
12:22 szabgab so you can also run padre from svn
12:22 aharoni Gabor created an account for me a few months ago
12:22 aharoni oh, hi Gabor
12:22 szabgab ohhi :-)
12:22 CSJewell daxim: A lot of things only need to be done once. (for example, you can reuse the par file, you only have to install the CPAN modules once, hopefully, etc.)
12:23 aharoni i should try to build Padre on Windows from SVN again
12:23 Alias Although sometimes it seems the best is to just suck it up and take it
12:23 daxim you're the expert: what do you think, is the build time short enough to provide a continuous build?
12:23 Alias Start it installing before you go to bed :)
12:23 szabgab if you have svn trunk then run perl Makefile.PL and   nmake  and then you can run perl dev.pl
12:24 Alias daxim: I've promised Microsoft we won't use the testing farm for continuous testing or other heavy load tasks
12:24 Alias In the first phase
12:24 CSJewell I recommend doing the Bootstrap-requiring steps inside a VM - that way, you can keep the VM around, and keep it insulated from the rest of the system.
12:24 szabgab aharoni, if you start from the Almost six installation then it hardly takes any time
12:24 szabgab there might be a few things to upgrade
12:24 Alias I'm still adding a new login per week, and the whole thing is unmanaged and experimental
12:25 Alias aharoni: What szabgab says. Padre should upgrade itself cleanly and fairly quickly from the old install
12:25 Alias Wx doesn't really move much now
12:25 tsee We should work on changing that last sentence.
12:26 szabgab move much now  doesn't really Wx
12:27 szabgab tsee, that's what you meant?
12:27 tsee ;)
12:27 Alias tsee: By which I mean Wx isn't fixing bugs on the fly once a week because we touched something new :)
12:27 szabgab I just woke up from afternoon nap, so bevare!
12:27 Alias tsee: By the way, you are now the biggest blocker of CPAN Testers results
12:28 Alias tsee: You (curiously) decided to use Test-Base
12:28 tsee NONONO!
12:28 Alias In the XSpp thing
12:28 tsee I did not.
12:28 tsee Mattia did.
12:28 Alias How hard would it be to fix that?
12:28 tsee Given Mattia's consent in getting rid of it? I guess not very hard.
12:28 tsee But I'm not going to do it.
12:28 Alias I'll do it
12:29 tsee Cool. Let me ask Mattia.
12:29 Alias I seem to have the tolerance to rewrite test suites
12:29 Alias I've done a ton of Test.pm ones
12:29 tsee I'm simply way overworked.
12:32 tsee disks-- # whatever we buy, it's too slow for the cluster throughput :(
12:34 tsee Alias: No answer from Mattia yet, but I'm rather certain he won't mind. I'll let you know when I hear from him. You can find the current version on slowhub at http://github.com/tsee/extutils-xspp/commi​t/1b3533fcc0b46581ca25adae3d6da801de48b8c3. Don't give me the "git-on-win32 sucks" speech, though. Click the download link, get the tarball, make it a plain old patch and I'll apply it.
12:36 tsee Mattia says: "it would be ok (sigh; I really like Test::Base test format...)"
12:38 kentnl there used to be a menu option in File-> with Save session/open session, but it seems to have vanished and I don't know why :/
12:39 Hyppolit svn: r7693 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7693
12:39 Hyppolit Added my name to the illustrious list of names before me
12:39 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/developers/
12:39 waxhead szabgab: I uploaded Padre-Plugin-SVN-0.02 to pause tonight...
12:39 szabgab thank you
12:39 waxhead szabgab: still having problems with release.pl working with the display thing in the test... when I run prove locally it does the right thing...
12:40 szabgab kentnl, someone decided it is an advanced feature
12:40 kentnl I managed to lose it somehow without even upgrading :/
12:40 szabgab and I think there is no way on the GUI yet to enable those so for now you need to close padre
12:40 szabgab :-)
12:40 * waxhead is off to bed....
12:40 waxhead way too tired...
12:41 waxhead getting old I think... :(
12:41 szabgab kentnl, after closing padre edit ~/.padre/config.yml
12:41 szabgab and set the func_session to 1
12:42 szabgab I think happened to me once to that it disappeared
12:42 kentnl yay. ^_^
12:44 * kentnl disables main_syntax_check while hes there because it causes segfaults :(
12:46 kentnl is there a padre plugin that does good EOL whitespace tidyup?
12:46 kentnl I would use a perltidy plugin, but its *utterly* useless when working with MX::Declare family
12:50 kentnl 'introduce temporary variable' can be fun too, It just went and replaced all my code with '$foou$foos$fooe$foo$foo$foo"
12:52 szabgab there is certainly place for improvement :-)
12:58 El_Che kentnl: hehe
12:59 sri joined #padre
13:00 aharoni szabgab: upgrading Padre from CPAN indeed was very smooth
13:00 aharoni nice splashscreen
13:01 aharoni it seems that the new about window has a per-word RTL support.
13:01 szabgab and we will have to replace it as the license is not commercial
13:01 szabgab aharoni, Alias might know something about the about window
13:01 aharoni my name in Hebrew is written in a very funny way. Aharoni .E Amir. A bit Hungarian :)
13:03 El_Che hehe
13:03 El_Che everyone is funny today :)
13:03 szabgab Rima E Inoraha
13:04 aharoni ...and don't forget the period on the wrong side of the middle initial :)
13:04 aharoni the Latin equivalent would be .E, not E.
13:05 aharoni oh well, there are more important things
13:09 * CSJewell is off to bed again. Hopefully the cats don't decide to wake me up again like they did 4 hours ago.
13:23 aharoni it may be a Pandorra's box, but is there a particular reason for the default values for indentation? Tab display size and Indentation width are both 8. IIRC it's used in the C source of Perl 5 itself, but i think that the common value in Perl code today is 4, and it is also supported by Damian Conway (who advocates four spaces and is opposed to tabs). Correct me if i'm wrong...
13:26 Alias Weird
13:26 Alias I just used the regular HTML widget
13:28 Alias Dunno why the RTL would go screwy
13:28 Alias aharoni: Damian was going to recommend tabs
13:29 Alias But it was felt for a very large corporate project, it would be too hard to prevent degrading
13:29 Alias And the 4 thing is a less than ideal compromise between the 2-space tab people and the 8-space tab people
13:30 Alias Tabs allow personalised indent, so stuff works with both my less-than-ideal eyes, and other people's 80-column text mode stuff
13:30 Alias Since one of the goals of Padre is to be the best whitespace-handling editor ever, we're going with the in-a-perfect-world version
13:31 aharoni I don't know. In my perfect world tabs don't exist, and i strongly support the explanation in PBP. I have been very much a 4-space person for a long time, but i am aware of the fact that some people are different.
13:35 kaare joined #padre
13:36 Alias aharoni: The goal is that you should never have to know or care
13:36 Alias Your editor should Just Know it's working in a tab file, and switch on it's own form 4-wide spaces to 4-wide tabs
13:36 Alias Or your project should tell the editor what the policy is for that project
13:37 Alias Padre should play nice and let people do things they way they want it
13:40 aharoni Nevermind. Another translation question: The string "SpecialValue:" at "lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/SpecialValues.pm:38" - can i see it in context somewhere?
14:04 tsee aharoni, if you open an existing file, Padre will detect its indentation setting and adjust automatically. The setting only matters for new files.
14:05 aharoni thanks, nevermind :-) . Do you know anything about "SpecialValue"?
14:07 szabgab aharoni, it is a SpecialValue ;-)
14:08 aharoni the question is whether it's relevant to translate it
14:08 szabgab you see, that I don't know :-(
14:08 aharoni :-) . do you at least where i can see in the application itself? It's the only untranslated string that's left.
14:08 aharoni do you at least ^know^ where
14:09 dapatrick joined #padre
14:12 Alias Menu
14:12 Alias Edit -> Insert -> Special Values
14:13 Alias And then it looks like a label on the gui on that dialog
14:16 aharoni and is there a reason for its being written without a space?
14:17 CromeDome joined #padre
14:17 Alias Not that I can see
14:17 Alias Personally, I'd have used a space
14:18 mib_3dki1t joined #padre
14:19 mib_3dki1t hi, i have a Question, i installed padre with cpan.   Now how do i start it up?
14:19 tsee "padre"
14:19 mib_3dki1t hm crap "command not found"
14:19 tsee mib_3dki1t, ah, wait. I suppose this is Windows? If you installed it via CPAN, you'll have to run it from a shell or make your own link in the Start menu.
14:19 tsee Hmm. Strange.
14:20 mib_3dki1t no its ubuntu 9.04
14:20 tsee csh?
14:20 mib_3dki1t bash
14:20 tsee Odd.
14:20 tsee Let me check where it ended up on my laptop.
14:20 szabgab lets's see if perldoc Padre  works?
14:20 tsee Good idea!
14:20 tsee mib_3dki1t, it's /usr/local/bin/padre for me.
14:21 mib_3dki1t hm doesnt seem to have installed it sorry
14:21 szabgab no problem
14:28 szabgab aharoni, so now you can fix the space and close the ticket :-)
14:28 szabgab oh, there is a space just not seen?
14:29 aharoni there's no space. maybe it's intended. i didn't want to screw with a string whose function i don't completely understand :-)
14:29 rindolf Hi aharoni
14:30 aharoni goo afternoon
14:30 rindolf aharoni: I'm shlomif.
14:30 aharoni ehh, good
14:30 aharoni of course you are
14:30 rindolf aharoni: goo is better.
14:30 rindolf gooey > good
14:30 aharoni no, evol is better ;-)
14:31 aharoni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goo_%28album%29 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evol
14:36 Hyppolit svn: r7694 | amire80++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7694
14:36 Hyppolit Alias and szabgab say that there should probably be a space in "Special Value"
14:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
14:47 Hyppolit svn: r7695 | amire80++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7695
14:47 Hyppolit updated Hebrew translation
14:47 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
14:47 amire80 szbgab, can you please check that my Hebrew translation doesn't break anything?
14:48 amire80 szabgab, i mistyped you nick
14:53 szabgab amire80, I don't think it can
14:53 jq tsee: ping?
14:53 tsee jq, pongish
14:53 amire80 szabgab, i probably need to the SpecialValue in other files, too. messages, translations etc.
14:54 amire80 szabgab: besides, the last time i checked in a translation, you found some minor problems in the file.
14:54 jq tsee: http://jquelin.blogspot.com/2009/09/mig​rating-to-moose-hell-yeah.html?showComm​ent=1251903251902#c4970788621925362130
14:54 szabgab amire80, now I hope rindolf will look over it
14:55 tsee jq: b) is simply not true. It's like saying "we must all use hurd eventhough it's not useful yet. Otherwise they won't ever finish it!"
14:55 tsee But Moose is being used alright.
14:55 szabgab amire80, there are tools to update the pot file tools/update_pot_file.pl
14:55 rindolf amire80: thanks for translating Padre.
14:55 tsee It's just that it doesn't make sense to impose it on every little perl script in existance.
14:55 rindolf amire80: can you also work on a Catalan translation?
14:55 jq tsee: as you say, moose is already used, and is damned useful
14:56 tsee Sometimes.
14:56 tsee Which is the danger if you push it into arbitrary modules *for no good reason*.
14:56 jq well, ease of programming *is* a good reason
14:56 tsee If the module exists, no.
14:57 tsee Refactoring out of idle curiousity is actually a sin, if you ask me.
14:57 jq and here's how technical debt begins
14:57 tsee not true.
14:58 tsee Introducing bugs is technical bugs par excellence.
14:58 amire80 rindolf: I am *very* surprised that there's still no Catalan translation for Padre, because it is usually one of the first languages to which every website and computer program is translated :-) . In any case, the guys from www.softcatala.org should do it. I am very far from being a native Catalan speaker.
14:58 tsee If you plan to MODIFY the modules, refactoring to facilitate easier extension is alright.
14:58 rindolf amire80: ah.
14:58 tsee If it's been sitting on CPAN happily since 2004, mostly untouched, doing its single 200-line-cpan-module thing, then bashing Moose in there is just silly.
14:58 rindolf amire80: anyway, I'll go over the translation.
14:59 jq tsee: i do have plans for most of my modules if i had some tuits
14:59 jq therefore, i do plan to provide them with new stuff.
14:59 tsee Without tuits, no refactoring either. So that's a moot point.
15:00 jq and in that case, i definitely will consider migrating to moose and dist-zilla
15:03 szabgab I know I am being childish but one of my negative feelings about Moose is because mst is pushing it so aggressively
15:03 szabgab the other day he came and almost beat up jq I think
15:04 El_Che it worked
15:04 El_Che :)
15:04 jq szabgab: i did not feel it that way
15:04 jq (but i wasn't really focus on irc otoh)
15:04 tsee szabgab, you're misunderstanding mst, I think.
15:05 jq szabgab: and this kinds of define as ad-hominem attack imho
15:05 jq i try to avoid judging stuff on their author
15:05 jq even if that can give a first impression :-)
15:06 szabgab jq, what is ad-hominem attack? that I said I have negative feelings?
15:07 jq yes, due to mst's behaviour
15:07 jq i'm not saying that mst is right or wrong
15:07 jq i'm saying that it's better to judge moose on its own technical merits
15:07 szabgab you say I was attacking mst with this?
15:07 El_Che no
15:08 jq no
15:08 jq but that judging technical stuff on an individual behaviour
15:08 El_Che I think jq means your stand is (pârtly-) based on feelings toward someone
15:08 szabgab looking up Ad hominem
15:08 jq (who is not even the author)
15:08 szabgab oh sure, yes it is "Ad hominem argument"
15:09 jq can be taken as ad hominem judgements
15:09 szabgab I know, it should not be relevant
15:09 jq that's all i'm saying
15:09 szabgab oh I agree with that
15:09 jq and i'm not saying that you should be friend with everyone
15:09 jq you are totally entitled to your opinion
15:10 jq by that i will not take your opinion into account if it's only backed up by this kind of argument
15:10 jq :-)
15:10 jq eg: my first contact with rindolf was really bad
15:10 jq since he "accused" me that i was using all-lowercase in my comments in my code
15:11 jq but this never let me judge his contributions in other projects (mandriva, padre, etc) due tothat
15:11 rindolf jq: yes, I'm sorry if I offended you back then.
15:11 jq of course, i'm human and i still remember that episode.
15:12 jq but this does not prevent me to accept patches from him, and other contributions
15:12 szabgab actually I do think we should consider moving to moose
15:12 jq rindolf: not offended, irritated :-)
15:12 szabgab and moosex
15:12 tsee It's not like we haven't been *considering* that from the start.
15:12 jq szabgab: yes. as i say in one of my blog comment, currently padre is taking 16 seconds to open here
15:12 rindolf szabgab: an ad-hominem is something like "Joel Spolsky sucks. Joel said X -> Ergo: X must be false."
15:13 jq so 0.2 additional seconds will be invisible
15:13 szabgab does moose really only add 0.2 ?
15:13 szabgab total?
15:13 rindolf No offense to Joel.
15:13 szabgab no matter how many classes ?
15:13 tsee szabgab, if you only have "use Moose;" yes.
15:13 tsee No. of classes DOES matter.
15:13 jq $ time perl -e 'package Foo; use Moose; 1;'
15:13 jq 0.13user 0.00system 0:00.19elapsed 72%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
15:13 jq moose really got better
15:13 tsee "use Moose;" does take .2 seconds to bootstrap itself on my 1.66Ghz Core2 laptop. (fastish hard drive)
15:13 jq not yet perfect by all means
15:14 jq but really better than 4 monthes ago
15:14 szabgab I though they just detect you are on the command line and don't do anything :-)
15:14 jq szabgab: which is why i used a "package Foo"
15:15 jq also, i got a comment in my blog pointing to app::persistent
15:15 jq this might be interesting
15:16 szabgab for me padre starts really slow the first time I run after boot
15:16 jq cold start, eh
15:16 szabgab but if I close it it starts much faster the second time
15:16 jq this seems normal
15:17 jq fs cache buffers are empty
15:17 jq then you gain all the data fetching on disk
15:17 szabgab still app::persistent might help for people who are restarting it often
15:17 jq yes
15:17 tsee szabgab, ugh. Keeping a Padre in memory at all times? Seems like a REALLY sucky idea.
15:18 jq tsee: depends on your utilization pattern
15:18 tsee It's a shitty tradeoff for almost everybody.
15:18 tsee Consider the amount of memory you statically spend on a single application that you're not even using all the time.
15:19 jq tsee: it gets swapped out by the os if not often used
15:19 jq (interesting how my pov differs totally when i'm a developer and a sysadmin :-) )
15:20 tsee BTW: I ran a quick check on our production system. There, the 'use Moose' check take .25 seconds. A similar check with MX::Declare takes 1.3s and the multi-class-all-MX-Declare 1.5k lines app takes 3s.
15:20 tsee Note that's A LOT less code than Padre.
15:20 tsee But it's also an IO-starved system.
15:20 jq i'm not that found of moosex::declare
15:20 tsee I've been enjoying most of it a lot for this little project.
15:21 Hyppolit svn: r7696 | shlomif++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7696
15:21 Hyppolit Some corrections to the Hebrew PO translation.
15:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
15:21 jq using class keywords and stuff... that's not very perlish imo
15:21 jq padre is 22k lines according to sloccount
15:22 tsee The 1.5k were sloccount as well.
15:23 rindolf jq: only 22K?
15:23 jq in lib, yes
15:23 rindolf jq: ah.
15:28 PerlJam jq: using keyword shortcuts isn't very perlish?
15:29 * PerlJam wonders what *is* perlish then
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16:06 kentnl <scrollback> tabs suck. the "best view for the user who views it with their preferences" is bollocks imo, because you'll have things that can't be lined up without space adjustment, leading to tabs+spaces, and then differing values of tabsize will produce visual anarchy.
16:08 El_Che 17:15 <@szabgab> I though they just detect you are on the command line and don't do anything :-)
16:08 El_Che lol
16:11 El_Che mm, keeping padre in memory? looks a lot like ms office or java 6 hacks
16:24 szabgab kentnl, we don't want to go there
16:24 szabgab tabs vs spaces
16:24 szabgab perl vs python
16:24 szabgab vi vs emacs
16:24 * kentnl is an obvious member of the spaces group
16:24 szabgab or we can go to the last one :-)
16:24 El_Che moose vs old-schoo-oo :)
16:24 kentnl but that said, its probably a side effect of using vim >_>
16:25 kentnl also, using perl probably excerbates this choice
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19:14 El_Che Alias: it seems your bugreport reopened the moose-discussion in perl5-land bigtime
20:09 PerlJam It wasn't a bug report so much as a feature request :)
20:13 El_Che semantics :)
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20:49 coffeemonster1 hi padre'ers, I'm just starting to use padre on windows.  Is there a list of all the modules bundled in with the .msi ?
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