Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-09-03

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Time Nick Message
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02:34 Alias El_Che: These things tend to go in cycles
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03:06 szabgab good morning
03:14 Ryan52 good morning szabgab
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05:00 szabgab gm again :-)
05:02 szabgab hmm garu forgottent to update http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Release_History  Ryan52 do you know the revision number he used for the release?
05:02 garu oh
05:02 garu sorry
05:03 garu I'll do it now
05:03 garu (good 2am to you guys :)
05:06 szabgab any of you know who sigzero is? he keeps posting on my blog that he is interested but then does not show up
05:07 garu szabgab, there, updated! sorry for forgetting
05:07 garu no idea who sigzero is
05:07 szabgab garu, np
05:07 szabgab and thank you!
05:07 garu you're most welcome
05:08 garu my pleasure :)
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05:34 azawawi good morning
05:34 jq hi
05:34 azawawi jq: http://stevan-little.blogspot.com/2009/​09/moose-startup-time-over-time_02.html , take a look at the first comment
05:35 jq yup, i agree
05:38 szabgab I am a bit fed-up with all this how Moose is awsewome and you suck if you don't use it talk, but on the other hand I think we should probably start to use it too
05:40 Sewi good morning
05:40 azawawi szabgab:  :)
05:41 szabgab I don't know if we will get technical benefit from it - at least not on the short term - but I think we can get social benefit,
05:41 azawawi # this weekend = full Padre hackathon for me :)
05:41 szabgab I just don't yet know how
05:42 jq well, i can see that future padre plugins *will* use moose
05:42 azawawi szabgab: we should at least look at what we really benefit from using it. I think jerome can answer that more accurately...
05:42 jq s/see/foresee/
05:43 szabgab one of the things I am quite sure will happen that if I put a call out to the Moose people to help turn Padre Moosish is that they will say move it to github first
05:43 jq azawawi: in 2 words - cleaner oo
05:43 jq also, i started moose integration in padre
05:43 jq so if you declare attributes, they appear in an attribute section in the outline profile
05:43 szabgab jq, I totally agree that in every real usage of Padre - except of the bare bones core padre - people soon will have Moose anyway
05:44 azawawi jq: but you have to take into account that Wx is not 100% OO (like Wx::Menu problem)...
05:44 jq azawawi: hey, that's not a problem. moose does not force you to go all oo
05:44 azawawi jq: i see
05:44 jq but when you're using oo, then it's handy and convenient
05:44 jq you know, it's the same for poe
05:45 jq when i discovered poe, i thought that you *had* to use message passing for everything
05:45 Sewi I didn't do much GUI programming ever on Perl, but is it possible to create the GUI-interface as a Module and use this module from everywhere in Padre?
05:45 jq but in fact, now i understood that you can do message passing with sessions, but you can still retain plain sub calls and oo paradigm
05:45 azawawi hmmm so it does not force you to do everything their way... nice.
05:46 jq as long as you understand that in those cases, poe event loop will not kick in
05:46 jq Sewi: we already started a bit this way with padre::app
05:46 Sewi This should make switiching the GUI toolkit easier and if there will be a switch, every place where Wx is used has to be changed anyway
05:47 szabgab who is talking about switching the GUI toolkit?
05:48 Sewi all of you if I understood it right that Moose should replace Wx
05:48 szabgab nope
05:48 jq Sewi: those are not related
05:48 jq wx is a gui toolkit
05:48 szabgab Moose is an object system, nothing to do with GUI
05:48 jq moose is an object system
05:49 jq you can use moose and wx together
05:49 jq i am using moose and tk together in my modules
05:49 jq eck, i'm using moose and poe and tk together even
05:49 Sewi Ok, sorry, I got it wrong.
05:49 szabgab Sewi, np
05:49 jq perldoc Moose::Manual is really a good introduction
05:50 * Sewi is going to read something about Moose...
05:50 szabgab jq, I blogged about it but I don't have the knowledge, could you help to improve the moose web site?
05:50 szabgab to make it friendly to newbies
05:51 azawawi jq: can Moose attributes be like lazy getters in Java?
05:51 jq azawawi: yes
05:51 mohsen joined #padre
05:51 jq has foo => ( ..., lazy=>1, ...)
05:52 jq (or even has foo => ( ..., lazy_build=>1, ...) )
05:52 jq i don't know java lazy getters
05:53 jq but what i just wrote means: don't build the attribute till it's really accessed
05:53 azawawi yeah something like that
05:53 jq so yes
05:53 jq azawawi: http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-0.89/lib/Mo​ose/Manual/Attributes.pod#Laziness_and_lazy_build
05:54 * azawawi thinks more content to index :)
05:54 jq ?
05:54 azawawi for help search
05:58 Sewi azawawi: What about adding two Radiobuttons "search perldoc" and "search cpan" and for the latter use a HTTP-request to the cpan-site?
06:01 azawawi sure
06:02 azawawi i was thinking of indexing stuff for search since the word "search" at the moment is a bit vague in that dialog...
06:03 azawawi it is simply a topic-auto-completion dialog atm...
06:03 Sewi But is indexing the whole CPAN a good idea?
06:03 azawawi &
06:03 Sewi Or do you mean indexing the local perldoc files?
06:03 azawawi no the whole of CPAN
06:03 azawawi what's is available on your drive...
06:03 azawawi selective indexing...
06:04 Sewi ok
06:04 azawawi like the X<> tags that szabgab told about
06:04 azawawi the wxwidgets html docs
06:04 azawawi the sdl docs
06:04 azawawi moose maybe
06:04 szabgab can you please start slowly
06:04 azawawi :)
06:05 szabgab try to index one topic and then another one
06:05 szabgab so we can see how it works
06:05 azawawi szabgab: I know but im telling you my plans :)
06:06 azawawi &
06:08 szabgab good
06:08 szabgab good plans
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06:54 JRWeiss szabgab hi,  I am now connected on this network as well
06:54 szabgab hi
07:06 ppant Hello to all
07:07 ppant Congratulations for releasing new version
07:07 ppant I am new to channel
07:14 azawawi thanks
07:17 tsee joined #padre
07:17 szabgab ppant, hi
07:18 szabgab welcome to the channel!
07:35 El_Che lo
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07:55 Hyppolit svn: r7697 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7697
07:55 Hyppolit [template.padre.perlide.org] Fixed Arabic RTL display issue
07:55 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
07:58 szabgab so who is using Moose here?
07:58 szabgab I know jq does, but who else?
07:58 Hyppolit svn: r7698 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7698
07:58 Hyppolit [Perl::Dist::Padre] Ignoring M:B files on win32
07:58 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/
07:59 azawawi szabgab: STD.pmc is using it but im not :)
07:59 tsee szabgab, I do.
07:59 szabgab I am interested to find out how much expertise we have here?
08:00 tsee It only takes one or a few little toy projects to get up to speed.
08:00 tsee It's mostly new syntax.
08:00 szabgab and what do you think about using Moose and MooseX for Padre?
08:00 tsee I'm not in favour currently.
08:00 tsee In the long run: Yes.
08:00 szabgab interesting, why, what do you expect to change?
08:00 tsee But I have the hunch it'll be WAY more than the 0.2s startup penalty of Moose itself.
08:01 tsee I posted a few semi-meaningful numbers yesterday:
08:01 szabgab I think so too, I am writing a blog about that now
08:01 szabgab here or on a blog?
08:01 tsee here
08:01 tsee Moose => 0.2s, MX::Declare => 1.3s, MX::Declare with a 1.5k lines OO app => 3s.
08:02 tsee If you extrapolate that linearly, it'll be 25s for a full MX::Declare'd Padre of 22k lines.
08:02 azawawi and Perl 6 5-10 secs :)
08:02 tsee That's likely to be WORST case, though.
08:03 tsee Probably overestimating, too.
08:03 tsee But people saying "it's just .2s, who cares for Padre?" certainly underestimate it by an order of magnitude.
08:03 tsee Besides.
08:03 tsee It would be a significant amount of work to switch.
08:03 szabgab tsee, can I quite that in the blog post?
08:04 azawawi a separate branch to test startup time would be good... Doesnt Class::MOP provide more runtime metadata?
08:04 tsee Yes, but make sure you note that this isn't proper benchmarking nor science or good statistics.
08:04 szabgab or would you post these numbers on a blog and I link to it?
08:04 tsee No, feel free to use them.
08:04 szabgab ok
08:04 tsee For what they're worth.
08:05 tsee azawawi, yes, a test branch would be cool, but it'd be quite a bit of work to transform Padre. I'm not convinced we want to invest that much into a "let's give it a quick try" sort of branch.
08:05 tsee But then again, everybody can spend their time as they wish!
08:06 szabgab I think I'll make a call to the Mooselovers to help us make such a branch
08:06 El_Che maybe we could get the moose people involved? maybe they have a better idea's in the cost
08:06 szabgab I expect that they answer will be:
08:06 El_Che ?
08:06 szabgab move to github and then maybe
08:06 azawawi tsee: the question is, does Moose reduce the amount of LOCs in Padre or not? :)
08:06 azawawi tsee: less code, less maintenance...
08:07 tsee azawawi, Moose? Maybe. MX::Declare? likely.
08:07 tsee Let's stay clear of slowhub, please :(
08:08 tsee It's easy enough to just a) create a git-svn checkout of Padre which brings you most of the benefits anyway and b) get commit access to the repository.
08:08 azawawi tsee: imho, the choice of using Moose and MX::Declare boils down to our ability in the future to move to Perl 6 in a day or so...
08:08 tsee Surely, you're dreaming.
08:09 tsee I hate to be an ass about this, but until perl 6 gets orders of magnitudes better performance and A LOT of extra libraries, this is pretty damn unlikely.
08:10 azawawi tsee: dreaming is a good practice for innovation :)
08:12 azawawi tsee: how much will MX::Declare reduce Padre's lines of code in your opinion?
08:12 jq indeed, i don't see the difference between moose and mx::declare impact
08:13 jq i'd even say that mx::declare might be a bit more verbose
08:13 jq (note: i never used mx::declare, just read its doc)
08:15 azawawi jq: what about Moose and LOCs? less code or more?
08:15 jq less
08:15 jq *a lot* less
08:15 azawawi %?
08:15 jq i don't know
08:15 azawawi might be worth it to calculate how much less...
08:15 jq depends on your use of attributes and whether you have methods attached to them,
08:15 jq if you do type checking and content checking, etc
08:17 jq the mor eyou are doing man ually, the more loc you will gain using moose
08:19 azawawi but that type checking means a more robust Padre right?
08:19 jq yes
08:19 jq but afaik we don't do type checking by now in padre
08:22 jq azawawi: http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-​0.89/lib/Moose/Manual/Unsweetened.pod might interest you
08:22 Alias tseeBut people saying "it's just .2s, who cares for Padre?" certainly underestimate it by an order of magnitude.
08:22 Alias tsee: It's also 7meg of ram, MINIMUM
08:22 Alias Since we don't share any of it's deps
08:22 jq 24835 jquelin   20   0  497m 170m 4228 S   19  4.3 135:31.13 padre
08:22 Alias So we add 20% memory load up front, and in every thread
08:22 Alias Threads go from 20meg each to 30meg
08:23 Alias Ballpark
08:23 jq Alias: the added 7mg will be dwarved by the docs anyway
08:23 Alias hrm?
08:23 Alias docs don't end up in memory...
08:23 Alias oh, that
08:23 jq my running padre currently uses:
08:23 jq 24835 jquelin   20   0  497m 170m 4228 S   19  4.3 135:31.13 padre
08:23 Alias wow
08:23 jq (excerpt of top)
08:23 Alias I only see those kind of numbers when I'm running syntax checker
08:23 jq i have 20+ opened files
08:24 jq with syntax checker
08:24 Alias (Because it seems to leak like a motherfucker sometimes)
08:24 Alias It's not the docs
08:24 Alias It's the bloody syntax check
08:24 azawawi syntax checking should be done on save ... period
08:24 jq but syntax check is currently *the* killer feature of padre
08:24 jq azawawi: i disagree
08:24 szabgab azawawi, I am not sure about that
08:25 szabgab but should be configurable that way
08:25 Alias I have 20 documents and I'm using 47meg, with a total VM size of around 105meg
08:25 jq i really like to have regular syntax check
08:25 Alias I've seen the syntax checker send my process size to 2gig and hit the maximum linit
08:25 jq so it can catch the problems as i'm still on it, not afterwards
08:25 jq my padre is opened since quite some time
08:26 Alias Mine, 2 days
08:26 Alias jq: Then I recommend you do some leak hunting in the syntax checker
08:26 azawawi szabgab: at the moment, on win32, it is run when i save or open a menu...
08:26 Alias It leaks like a sieve
08:26 waxhead joined #padre
08:26 Alias You can probable save yourself 200-300meg
08:29 azawawi jq: thanks for the link.
08:30 El_Che Alias: do you expect a big overhead per thread if using Moose? That big?
08:32 jq azawawi: you're welcome. it does a good job of showing moose benefits
08:33 kaare joined #padre
08:33 waxhead 0.45 installed fine on Vista... also install SVN Plugin.. ;)
08:35 azawawi Alias: any problems lately with outline view? it doesnt seem to crash Padre as it used to...
08:36 azawawi Alias: maybe it is time to drop "Functions"
08:37 szabgab jq, what shows the Moose benefits? I did not catch your reference
08:38 Sewi azawawi: If you drop functions, then you should enable outline view if it's disabled but functions was enabled
08:38 jq szabgab:  http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Moose-​0.89/lib/Moose/Manual/Unsweetened.pod
08:38 El_Che szabgab: the shorter code and strict-typing like security
08:40 szabgab ty
08:42 Alias El_Che: Moose uses 7meg of ram, BASE
08:42 Alias And it would need to be loaded before we started forking off threads
08:43 Alias azawawi: I like my Functions thank you
08:43 Alias azawawi: It's quick, simple and easy. Outline does more things in a more complex way that I don't need
08:43 El_Che yes, but it's a one time price or for every thread?
08:43 Alias Every thread
08:43 El_Che mm
08:43 Alias Has to clone a fair bit of what is in the foreground threa
08:43 tsee El_Che, also, it makes thread spawning a little bit slower, of course.
08:43 tsee But that's a second order effect.
08:44 Alias You are welcome to run some benchmarks, but I suspect is a fair chunk of that 7meg
08:44 Alias That's not including the Moose memory usage for the actual Padre models
08:44 tsee Also, replacing Class::XSAccessor with *anything* will be slower.
08:44 tsee If we switch to Moose, we should certainly invest some time in testing a thread-spawning thread model.
08:44 Alias And we need to use Moose in a way that wraps around Wx safely
08:44 Alias I'm not sure if that means anything special
08:44 tsee That is "thread-spawning thread" model.
08:45 tsee Alias: Probably not.
08:45 Alias At least half our classes inherit from Wx classes
08:45 Alias They have rather interesting ways of doing ->new for example
08:45 Sewi Alias: Thank you, I though I was the only one not using outline :-)
08:45 tsee True. That would probably take some work.
08:46 Alias I wouldn't mind outline if it had a little right click option to "focus on functions"
08:46 Alias So that it could emulate the same stripped down function-only look
08:46 szabgab Alias, I would like that too
08:46 szabgab the function-only view
08:46 Alias That would certainly remove some of the sillyness of having two different tools that do kinda the same thing
08:46 El_Che so it's really a question of a beter OO system (less bugs in the long run, easier for new people) or a faster one
08:47 Alias In short, yes
08:47 jq always has been :-)
08:47 Alias My opinion is that we already have an infinite workload
08:47 tsee It's a bit of a simplification, but that's the core of it.
08:47 Alias Switching to Moose doesn't make our work any less infinite :)
08:47 tsee Alias, that argument goes both direction.
08:47 tsee s
08:47 Alias true
08:48 El_Che infinite + 1 is still infinite :)
08:48 Alias Certainly Moose seems wrong for us right now
08:48 Alias But it's at least better than it was before they did the speed upgrades
08:48 Alias They are closer to XSAccessor than they were
08:48 El_Che PR-wise using Moose would attact some people and padre would be more hyped
08:48 Alias El_Che: Would it? really?
08:49 Alias Or is that speculation
08:49 azawawi El_Che: i agree with that
08:49 jq "Certainly Moose seems wrong for us right now" <--- that's a biased view
08:49 Alias Has anyone said they've love to work on Padre, except it's not in moose?
08:49 El_Che alias, speculation of course, but I believe that
08:49 Alias jq: How is that biased
08:49 jq it's only your opinion, with no facts attached
08:49 jq and before you object, the opposite is *also* a biased view
08:50 azawawi Alias: imho i consider Padre to be the test bed of new technologies and ideas...
08:50 Alias Facts like the RAM cost and threading costs and the slower speed and the dependency hit and so on?
08:50 Alias Those are certainly real
08:50 jq until we have a branch with some of padre's converted to moose and some firm results on the speed / memory usage deltas, all we can do is talking
08:50 jq and talking is moot
08:50 Alias I agree
08:50 Sewi ping garu
08:50 azawawi Alias: i have like 3GB on my cheap HP laptop here...
08:51 garu Sewi, pong
08:51 Alias azawawi: Good for you.
08:51 jq i'm not saying moose is light, or faster than xsaccessor
08:51 Alias azawawi: And does everyone?
08:51 Sewi Garu: Do you have a TODO-before-next-release - list?
08:51 jq but i'm saying that we cannot know the real effect of using moose on padre before we use moose on padre
08:52 garu Sewi, I'm no longer the release manager. Ryan52 is our guy now :)
08:52 garu (but I don't think so)
08:52 Ryan52 who? what? huh?
08:52 * Ryan52 hides
08:52 Sewi Oh, sorry for disturbing you.
08:52 Alias jq: But in the face of what we KNOW are significant costs, I think the burden of proof here is to proof we should use moose, rather than proof we shouldn't
08:52 garu Sewi, np
08:52 azawawi Alias: new vista/win7 machines are 2GB++
08:52 jq Alias: no, since in that case i can say that we KNOW that moose helps writing better & less code
08:53 Sewi Ryan52_invisible: do you have such a list? :-)
08:53 azawawi Alias: even netbooks are like 1 GB+
08:53 Ryan52 Sewi: nope. unfortunately Padre development doesn't really work like that.
08:53 jq we have to ponder the advantages and problems inherent to moose usage
08:53 Ryan52 Sewi: sometimes I'm looking for work too :)
08:53 Alias azawawi: So you want to limit Padre to only machines with 2gig and that aren't doing anything else with that 2gig?
08:53 Ryan52 then I find some, then I get too sleepy, then ya. :P
08:53 Ryan52 Sewi: ask Alias :)
08:53 garu Sewi, as I was instructed, we just release it when it's ready... meaning when the release manager feels the Changes file is big (or important) enough to justify a release
08:54 Sewi ok
08:54 Alias "I have $x" isn't an argument for "We should limit the smallest possible environment to $x"
08:54 El_Che Alias: understanding your performance point, we are not talking about a 2giga padre here
08:54 jq and again, even if i *think* that padre should be used in padre, i will not *push* for it
08:54 Alias Performance is a fungible property
08:54 jq (especially since i'm not contributing that much to padre nowadays)
08:54 Alias You save it where you can, so you have it to spend where you need
08:55 Sewi For the memory discussion: I'm running three instances on Padre on my netbook with Padre using 200 / 140 / 105 MB of 1 GB in all. The system currently uses 20 MB of swap
08:55 tsee I agree with Alias that Syntax check is a hog. But I also agree with jq(?) that it's a killer feature.
08:55 Alias I concur
08:56 Alias I think the "hog" part is a bug
08:56 tsee I regularly see Padre go beyond 500M.
08:56 szabgab Ryan52 is the new garu
08:56 Alias I think we're just leaking something somewhere
08:56 jq tsee: that was me indeed
08:56 Alias Fix it and I'd expect most of the cost of syntax checker to go away
08:56 tsee jq, sorry for being to lazy to reread the baklog
08:56 Ryan52 garu can be the new Ryan52 then :P
08:56 azawawi Alias: what's im saying is that if we dont ride the Moose train and try something new then probably we will have the same debate when it is time to move to Perl 6
08:56 tsee Also, I'd love a new concurrency model around preemptive coros and 1-2 background processes to use more cores.
08:57 tsee But even if preemptive Coros were present, it'd be a tough job.
08:57 * garu hides
08:57 Alias tsee: You're the concurrency dude, if you can make something better than what we have, go nuts
08:57 szabgab azawawi, I would not worry about moving to perl 6
08:57 szabgab not in the next few years at least
08:57 szabgab though maybe plugins will migrate
08:57 Alias azawawi: The existance of a train is not a reason to get on it
08:57 tsee Maybe one day if submersible and myself can sit in a quiet room for a week, we'll be able to work out the killer setup.
08:57 azawawi Alias: :)
08:57 El_Che Alias: hehe, good quote
08:58 tsee Besides. I am not the concurrency dude really. I just put the hat on for Padre.
08:58 Alias tsee: Come to australia, I have a guest matress and submersible works across the road from my house
08:58 tsee It's a world of suck.
08:58 azawawi Alias: oh well, at least i tried :)
08:58 Alias tsee: I bet I could even get you an office :)
08:58 tsee Alias, sponsor my trip and find me some vacation.
08:58 tsee The latter is more important.
08:58 Alias Scientists go to conferences right?
08:59 tsee But they're rarely in Australia for obvious reasons.
08:59 Alias Sign up to work on the square kilometre array :)
08:59 Alias Or whatever that fucking huge telescope we're building is called
08:59 tsee Yeah, it's a cool experiment, but radio astronomy is... astronomy.
08:59 tsee Astronomers are funny people.-
08:59 Alias ya, I know
08:59 Alias You're half an astronomer though aren't you?
08:59 tsee Different sort of funny from astro-physicists.
08:59 tsee Not really.
09:00 Alias OK, new solution. Invent a way to use the radio telescope to detect neutrinos
09:00 Alias Done
09:00 Alias Next!
09:04 szabgab so is it only tsee  and jq who know Moose  or also garu ?
09:05 garu I know moose
09:05 waxhead joined #padre
09:05 szabgab and use it?
09:05 garu not and expert, though
09:05 garu yeah... not as often as I wanted, but still
09:06 szabgab so what do the Moose knowers say?
09:07 szabgab about the benefits of Moose for Padre?
09:07 garu although, as a disclaimer, I have to say even though I think Moose should be encouraged for OOP and that strawberry could be encouraged to ship some "modern" Perl modules with it, I don't think Padre itself would benefit much from it
09:07 szabgab We all know - I think - about the costs so what are the benefits and do you think it would be better if Padre was using Moose?
09:07 szabgab forget about the cost of moving there
09:08 El_Che easier to hack, more uniform code?
09:08 szabgab El_Che, do you use Moose?
09:08 garu szabgab, I don't think we can.... I mean, that's the same as discussing whether we should move Padre to Qt or $whatever
09:08 waxhead I have no experience with moose
09:08 szabgab or is that what you read in the docs (I read them too :-)
09:08 El_Che szabgab: I starting using it for a internal project here, yes
09:08 waxhead I've only read it has a slow startup overhead...
09:08 garu besides, I'm a sucker for tsee's Class::XSAccessor
09:09 szabgab s/docs/advertisement/
09:09 waxhead mind you catalyst uses is a fair bit and I'm reading throughthe new Catalyst book and it's used through out...
09:09 El_Che szabgab: after working on java, the classic perl OO was the weakest part of perl imho
09:09 El_Che I found a solution for a good ide :)
09:09 jq szabgab: the thing is that we don't know yet the benefits moose will gain *for padre*
09:10 szabgab garu, I think we can move to Moose step by step, class by class
09:10 jq same as we don't know the drawbacks it will *really* bring
09:10 garu waxhead, yeah, cat is all moose from 5.8 on
09:10 szabgab but let's not talk about how we get there
09:10 garu and it's been great, because we actually benefit from it
09:10 jq if we speak on a general level, indeed i think padre's codebase would be easier to understand
09:10 garu being able to use "before", "after" and all that for actions
09:12 El_Che however, it wouldn't be worth loosing people if switching to moose. I don't know how sensitive some devs would be to that. I am thinking Alias :)
09:13 azawawi El_Che: yeah we cant lose him :)
09:14 El_Che maybe we need to secretly add ram to his machine: "wow, moose is fast nowadays" :)
09:14 Hyppolit svn: r7699 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7699
09:14 Hyppolit Fixed the replace all function
09:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
09:16 * Alias knows Moose
09:16 Alias And uses it
09:16 Alias Just in appropriate places :)
09:16 El_Che http://blog.afoolishmanifesto.com/archives/1124
09:17 El_Che they seem to be working on a moose light thing
09:17 El_Che Today I started working on mst’s plan for MX::Antlers, which is a way to use the actual Moose, with the speed of Mouse, without persistence or anything like that. Great for CGI and whatnot.
09:17 Alias SOMEONE, some time soon, will fix the problems that prevent Moose ruling the world
09:17 garu Alias++
09:17 El_Che (end quote)
09:18 Alias Same reason as PPI rules the world
09:18 Alias If you can handle 100% of all use cases, you win
09:18 Alias If you can't, you lose to something that can
09:18 El_Che maybe you should migrate PPI to Moose :)
09:18 Alias heh
09:18 Alias I'm migrating it to Class::XSAccessor
09:18 Alias And end-of-lifeing the old PPI::XS
09:18 Alias Adds a good 10% boost
09:19 El_Che yeah, pretty fast
09:19 azawawi wow
09:19 Alias Moose is, well, slower
09:19 Alias I actually got a 2% boost ONLY from moving all the sub significant { 1 } methods to XS :)
09:20 Alias methods that just returned true or false :)
09:20 El_Che hehe
09:20 Alias That's all PPI::XS has ever done really
09:20 Alias Just made some of that stuff faster
09:20 Alias Because that's the most advanced XS I know
09:21 Alias Class::XSAccessor now has shortcuts for the boolean true/false methods, so it's easy to change over
09:21 Alias There's an experimental and not-really tested PPI::XSAccessor included in the new release
09:21 Alias (The most recent one)
09:22 Alias If you have Class::XSAccessor installed, you should be able to just turn it on with "use PPI::XSAccessor"
09:23 waxhead bugger... 0.45 won't install ( 2nd Vista box )...
09:23 garu waxhead, :(
09:23 El_Che the cpan version?
09:24 jq 0.45 available on mandriva
09:24 waxhead El_Che, yep...
09:24 garu jq++
09:24 waxhead cpan version isntalled fine on the workstation, but laptop having problems...
09:24 waxhead mind you that's upgrading 0.36 to 0.45
09:24 garu waxhead, shadowpaste the error?
09:24 Alias waxhead: That shouldn't be a problem
09:25 azawawi waxhead: vista support here... how can i help you? :)
09:25 Alias The only local files that matter are the database, and it has it's own migration system
09:27 shadowpaste "waxhead" at 217.168.144.84 pasted "Vista fail" (33 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33397
09:28 szabgab <jq> if we speak on a general level, indeed i think padre's codebase would be easier to understand
09:28 szabgab what other benefits do  other project have from Moose?
09:29 jq smaller codebase
09:29 azawawi waxhead: upgrade Locale::Msgfmt
09:29 szabgab Padre would get that too, right?
09:29 waxhead azawawi,  I did...
09:29 jq i think so
09:29 waxhead cpan> upgrade Locale::Msgfmt
09:29 waxhead All modules are up to date for Locale::Msgfmt
09:30 azawawi waxhead: can u paste me the list of modules that need upgrading?
09:31 waxhead azawawi, if oyu think it's just modules that need upgrading I'll reread the install and see what's missing...
09:31 azawawi waxhead: "look Padre" and then "perl Makefile.PL"
09:31 Hyppolit svn: r7700 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7700
09:31 Hyppolit Fixed find_first (hide replace window after the first or all replaces)
09:31 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
09:32 azawawi waxhead: or you can remove the cpan/build/Padre* folder and retry...
09:32 waxhead azawawi, AWESOME!!! that's what I was looking for now I can see what's needed... thanks.
09:32 azawawi another happy customer :)
09:33 waxhead very...
09:33 waxhead so when are we going to see a Moose book?
09:33 Hyppolit svn: r7701 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7701
09:33 Hyppolit Fixed hotkey collision in replace dialog
09:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
09:33 * waxhead likes reference books
09:33 azawawi the best way to quickly install Padre on a machine... is to install almost-six-0.41 and then perl -MCPAN -e "CPAN->upgrade('/^Padre/')"
09:34 Hyppolit svn: r7702 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7702
09:34 Hyppolit Updated messages.pot
09:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
09:34 waxhead azawawi, been using cpan to install and upgrade for a while.. I forgot about look.. and didn't konw about the perl Makefile.PL thing...
09:35 Hyppolit svn: r7703 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7703
09:35 Hyppolit Updated German translation
09:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
09:35 waxhead i've been meaning to raise a ticket about the Find stuff... there needs to be a notification that the find has looped through...
09:35 Sewi waxhead: It's very annoing.
09:36 * Sewi is currently fixing this.
09:36 waxhead Sewi, cool!!
09:36 Sewi waxhead: It used to work but s/o broke it, like the replace all stuff
09:37 waxhead Sewi, s/o ?
09:38 Sewi Don't know who, it stopped working some time ago. I wanted to look at it for some time, but was too busy :-(
09:38 waxhead Sewi, I added a "couldn't find it" dialog to the find stuff..
09:38 * azawawi installs SDL
09:39 Sewi waxhead: You mean the F4-function?
09:39 waxhead nope...
09:40 waxhead when 'finding' if it wasn't found it then pops up a "Didn't find your term" dialog
09:41 garu Sewi, if you're into it, I think search/replace inside selections is also broken
09:43 azawawi SDL is still alpha quality on win32
09:44 Sewi waxhead: I got the message once, but now nothing happend. Strange...
09:44 Sewi garu: I'll see if I find something.
09:44 garu azawawi, s/on win32/
09:44 garu oops
09:44 garu azawawi, s/on win32//
09:44 azawawi i see
09:45 azawawi i wanted to play that frozen bubble game :)
09:45 garu oh, that you can do :)
09:45 azawawi on win32?
09:45 garu yeah
09:45 garu I guess :)
09:45 azawawi im going to sleep now... im facing a writer's block :)
09:46 garu azawawi, kthakore and his minions (myself included) are working on making things better. He already fixed enough things so it should work on win32
09:46 azawawi i already went with him on the installation procedure...
09:46 garu if it doesn't, he might be able to help you with it
09:46 garu ah, ok then :)
09:46 garu oh boy... 6:50am... sun's coming up
09:47 azawawi how about moving Padre to chrome OS :)
09:47 garu and screwing with my monitor
09:47 jq garu: sdl 2.2.2.11 compiled correctly on mandriva
09:47 * garu finds sdl versioning system funny
09:47 jq garu: btw, why are you requesting alien::sdl by now?
09:48 waxhead yay.. Padre is installed...
09:48 azawawi alien::sdl sleeps on win32...
09:48 garu jq, kthakore is working on ways to make it better for people to install sdl from inside cpan
09:48 jq garu: but it's not mandatory
09:48 * azawawi sleep &
09:48 garu I mean, previously, if you didn't have libsdl, install sdl crashed
09:48 jq on mandriva, i've been able to ship perl-sdl without alien::sdl
09:49 garu now it tries to install via alien::sdl, just like Wx does
09:49 garu (I even think he stole some code from alien::wx)
09:50 garu jq, yeah... if you package it for a dist you can make it depend on the actual libsdl, same for wxperl
09:50 garu however, if you don't package it or want the bleeding edge unpackaged version, you could use alien
09:50 garu alien should be able to detect whether libsdl is there or not
09:51 garu but it's still really alpha
09:51 garu jq, I'm sure kthakore would really appreciate your input on this... specially since you're packaging it
09:59 Hyppolit svn: r7704 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7704
09:59 Hyppolit Added a popup to inform about no matches or the number of replacements for Search and Replace
09:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
10:15 Hyppolit svn: r7705 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7705
10:15 Hyppolit Added a no-match-found-message
10:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
10:16 Hyppolit svn: r7706 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7706
10:16 Hyppolit Updated messages.pot
10:16 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
10:18 Hyppolit svn: r7707 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7707
10:18 Hyppolit Updated German translation
10:18 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
10:31 jest joined #padre
11:19 waxhead moose: http://perlhacks.com/2009/09/moose-or-no-moose.php
11:20 waxhead you know startup of an IDE isn't norally quick..
11:20 El_Che you tell me, I use netbeans :)
11:20 waxhead El_Che, yep.. and Visual Studio isn't quick either
11:23 tsee joined #padre
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11:53 El_Che "0 seconds]
11:53 El_Che "And for Padre that i use myself. I start Padre one time, and then the program runs the whole day. Hey Guys, i really don't care if startup is 2 secods faster. Even Firefox and a lot of others programs that i use have a longer start time then Padre, so i really don't see the problem here."
11:53 El_Che a comment on the moose-or-no-moose thread
12:04 Sewi El_Che: If using Padre as a IDE, you're right. If using it as a Perl Editor, start time does matter. Currently, I have an open project with a dozen files open. So I start another instance if I need to work on another project which also requires me to open multiple files just to advoid mixing up the things.
12:05 Sewi And when it comes to development, two seconds on each start really matter if you start and end Padre multiple times within a short timeframe for creating/testing a fix...
12:08 El_Che true
12:08 tsee Sewi: I agree. I usually use vim, still, but I generally have O(10-20) instances open on many desktops. I open/close them very quickly and won't wait any longer than necessary.
12:08 tsee That wouldn't be quite possible with Padre at all, but I'd still be opening/closing it a lot.
12:13 teejay agreed
12:13 teejay I have emacs open all day
12:14 teejay but still open it frequently, and expect it to be near-instant
12:14 teejay being damn fast to start would be a good USP
12:59 Sewi Starting Padre including opening 11 local files takes exactly 20 Seconds here (as exactly as it could by mesured manually)
12:59 El_Che meaning the bottleneck would be local files instead of Moose?
13:01 jq ~16 seconds here for 20+ files, syntax check on
13:02 Sewi File opening and tab switching is really slow
13:02 jq yes
13:02 jq worse - it freezes the interface
13:03 sri_ joined #padre
13:03 Sewi less than 7 seconds without document
13:04 Sewi and everything without syntax checking.
13:05 Sewi But this is a netbook with 800MHz, so I don't blame everything on Padre. But another 2 or three seconds for Moose would mean 9-10 seconds in all which isn't good.
13:06 El_Che that the thing we don't kno
13:06 El_Che w
13:06 El_Che Moose itself is 0.2 sec
13:07 Sewi ok
13:08 Sewi What about converting all the Modules to Moose by script in a branch using as few dev time as possible to get a version which may not be stable but enough for some speed tests.
13:09 El_Che I think moving from moose is easier than to moose
13:19 Alias So I had a chat to jdb
13:19 Alias And it turns out that the main blocker to Padre was that their build farm timed out on Alien::wxWidgets
13:19 Alias He's fixed it
13:20 Alias Next, apparently Wx.pm doesn't build for more legitimate reasons
13:21 Alias Interesting errors there
13:21 Alias http://ppm4.activestate.com/MSWin32-x86/5.8/818​/G/GA/GARU/Padre-0.45.d/log-20090902T132005.txt
13:22 El_Che I have the timeout as well
13:24 Alias >>> C:\Perl-5.8\bin\perl.exe Makefile.PL compilet-1509097472.c Command line warning D4002 : ignoring unknown option '-dll' Command line warning D4002 : ignoring unknown option '-nodefaultlib' Command line warning D4002 : ignoring unknown option '-debug' Command line warning D4002 : ignoring unknown option '-libpath:C:\Perl-5.8\lib\CORE' Command line warning D
13:25 Alias A whole new class of fail
13:25 Alias Anyways, Alien installs
13:25 * Alias summons kmx the build magician
13:25 asdf well. Win32::HideConsole works on my tiny systray experiment
13:25 asdf so :}
13:26 Alias Does the console flicker?
13:27 SvenDowideit mmm
13:27 SvenDowideit one mo
13:27 SvenDowideit ah, yes
13:27 Alias So really fail
13:27 SvenDowideit but then i'm kicking off a few short lived cmd's
13:27 Alias Although it suggests an interesting feature
13:27 SvenDowideit and the perl systray is one, so its 'ok'
13:28 Alias Where if you start an application with command line hidden, you can turn it on
13:29 SvenDowideit basic pain is that the .bat will give you a cmd shell
13:29 Alias At some point, I want strawberry to invent a .exe builder thingy
13:30 Alias So each script installs turns into an .exe file that either 1) Shows a console 2) Does not
13:30 Alias And you just configure the gui or non-gui in your Makefile.PL
13:30 SvenDowideit yup, makes sense
13:30 Alias Not an all-in-one .exe mind you
13:30 Alias Just for the .pl thing
13:30 SvenDowideit mind you, at _this_ point, having the console dissappear
13:30 SvenDowideit is worth it
13:31 Alias Would also mean firewall rules and what not would actually apply to different programs
13:31 Alias Not all to "perl"
13:31 SvenDowideit firewall - grrrr :)
13:32 SvenDowideit nother nice thing - the apache from xampp and strawberry portable seem to play nicely (in cgi mode atm)
13:43 szabgab joined #padre
13:47 * Alias writes a journal post to wade into the latest Moose/Padre flamewar
13:47 Alias In CGI mode, heh
13:47 Alias It damn well shoudl
13:57 PerlJam Alias: wade into?  Didn't you start it? :)
14:15 CromeDome joined #padre
14:16 MoC joined #padre
14:19 kaare joined #padre
14:38 szabgab Alias, when are you going to have that journal entry?
14:39 Alias When I finish it
14:39 Alias In the next hour
14:39 Alias I'm doing some benchmarking to support it
14:39 El_Che Alias: thx, I am really interessed in it
14:50 sri_ joined #padre
15:07 sri joined #padre
15:10 kaare joined #padre
15:16 azawawi joined #padre
15:16 azawawi hello
15:16 * azawawi back from sleep :)
15:19 abbe joined #padre
15:19 abbe hi everyone
15:19 abbe does padre updates list of functions in realtime ?
15:21 azawawi abbe: nop, seems to be on-save...
15:21 abbe oh, okay. cool, thanks :)
15:22 tsee It should update the overview tab regularly.
15:22 abbe I've filed a PR with FreeBSD PR system related to Padre 0.40 dumping core. The PR is available at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=138502
15:23 abbe i've submitted an updated port for Padre 0.45 and I'm getting something similar issue there also.
15:24 azawawi abbe: maybe it is an old Padre::Plugin::Perl5...
15:25 azawawi abbe: please double check that it is not there
15:27 abbe nop, its not there, azawawi in padre 0.45.
15:28 abbe now, it dumped core again: padre: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server :0.0.
15:28 abbe s/dumped core/crashed/
15:28 jq tsee: btw, where is specified which subtrees are opened / closed by default in outline tab?
15:29 tsee No idea.
15:29 azawawi abbe: what plugins are installed on your system?
15:29 azawawi abbe: i.e. Padre::Plugin::*
15:29 abbe azawawi, i've not installed any plugins explicitly, it is my first use of padre.
15:30 jq tsee: aren't you the one that wrote outline view?
15:30 azawawi interesting...
15:30 tsee Nope.
15:30 jq sorry then.
15:30 tsee hjansen, maybe?
15:30 jq hmm, maybe
15:30 shadowpaste "abbe" at 122.161.87.8 pasted "padre crashed" (84 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33411
15:31 abbe this time it crashed, when I clicked on http://padre.perlide.org/ link in Padre's Help
15:32 jq that's not good. :-)
15:33 azawawi damn i dont have any recent freebsd vm...
15:33 abbe if anymore information is needed, i'm willing to provide it.
15:34 PerlJam How do I tell what version of padre I have installed?  The things I've tried all say "0.40" when I just installed 0.45
15:34 azawawi PerlJam: padre --version
15:34 PerlJam that says 0.40
15:35 azawawi PerlJam: maybe an old Padre package install?
15:35 shadowpaste "abbe" at 122.161.87.8 pasted "perl --version and files installed by padre port" (401 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33412
15:36 PerlJam weird.
15:36 abbe PerlJam, here is says: Perl Application Development and Refactoring Environment 0.45
15:36 abbe s/is/it/
15:37 abbe if there is any problem you suspect with my perl build, and i can rebuild it.
15:37 azawawi abbe: i think it is more Wx related
15:38 * azawawi rebuild Wx as debug
15:38 abbe yeah, seems so.
15:39 PerlJam Weird.
15:40 PerlJam azawawi: I blame you!  :)   I just tried your one-line padre upgrade and it downloaded both 0.45 and 0.40 (because Padre::Wx::Menu::Experimental is apparently in 0.40)
15:40 PerlJam And I have no idea what Padre::Wx::Menu::Experimental is or why I have it.
15:40 Hyppolit svn: r7708 | jquelin++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7708
15:40 Hyppolit updated french translation
15:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
15:41 jq PerlJam: i think it has been removed since
15:41 abbe azawawi, the paste show wx's symbols information => it is debug build. am I wrong ?
15:42 PerlJam and when I run the one-line padre upgrade again, it downloads and installs 0.45 then it does 0.44 because of Padre::Plugin::Perl5
15:43 azawawi PerlJam: cpan weirdness :)
15:43 azawawi abbe: i see DEBUGGING in your libperl
15:44 abbe azawawi, okay, so ?
15:45 azawawi abbe: let me check a thing first
15:45 abbe okay :)
15:51 azawawi abbe: I will try building debug Wx to see if there are any warning of a bad picture call.
15:52 abbe okay
15:52 abbe azawawi,  is there any environment variables you're aware of, which i can set to enables logging or something like that ?
15:53 abbe azawawi, or breakpoints in gdb ?
15:53 azawawi abbe: you can meanwhile checkout padre svn and try 'perl dev.pl' to see if it happens there...
15:53 abbe azawawi, i hope i don't have to install that i.e. it'll work in-place.
15:53 azawawi abbe: you can enable Padre logging...
15:54 azawawi abbe: but you have to enable padre dev tools first
15:54 azawawi abbe: which is accessible via the plugin manager :(
15:54 abbe azawawi, how to enable that ?
15:54 azawawi abbe: let me get you the config.yml key
15:54 abbe cool :)
15:56 abbe checking out.
15:57 azawawi abbe: sorry that's stored in a config.db (sqlite). you cant
15:57 abbe azawawi, sql statement to set that ?
15:58 azawawi no idea how to do that at the moment :(
15:58 azawawi im sorry i cant help there
15:59 azawawi iftar &
16:00 abbe azawawi, np, if you're interested: sqlite{,3} config.db , and then: .tables - to list tables and then a SELECT query with LIKE predicate :)
16:02 abbe The error was 'BadGC (invalid GC parameter)'. dev.pl also crashed.
16:09 PerlJam padre only looks for plugins once at start time?
16:22 szabgab joined #padre
16:24 abbe hi szabgab
16:24 szabgab hi abbe
16:24 Alias ok
16:24 Alias http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/39573
16:24 abbe szabgab, I've filed PR for Padre 0.40 in FreeBSD at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=138502
16:24 Alias Next puff of smoke in the flame war :)
16:25 abbe szabgab, I updated port to 0.45 and similar error is still there. it crashes, when I click http:/padre.perlide.org/ link in Help window. gdb backtrace at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33411
16:26 abbe "perl --version and files installed by padre port" (401 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33412 <<< szabgab
16:27 szabgab abbe, does it crash on other menu items that lead to web sites?
16:28 abbe szabgab, yes it just crashed, when I clicked on Padre Support (English)
16:28 szabgab I guess it is wxWidgets or wxPerl problem and not padre specific
16:29 szabgab I can try to write a small sample script that will probably reproduce the problem
16:29 abbe cool, szabgab :)
16:29 abbe szabgab, write the one which just uses wx stuff, not any padre stuff.
16:29 szabgab does it crash if you click on "help/Report a bug"
16:29 abbe szabgab, yes.
16:30 abbe padre: Fatal IO error 35 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0.
16:31 tsee Alias, your Padre<->Moose opinion is remarkably close to mine.
16:33 Alias tsee: And mst's, and steven's I suspect
16:33 tsee stevan, but yes.
16:33 Alias er, yes
16:34 tsee (That's a typo in the blog post as well, IIRC)
16:34 Alias As I noted, the more people know, and they closer they are to the heart of projects, the more they tend to agree on things, even if they projects are deeply competative
16:34 Alias Which is why Guido had commit on pugs
16:37 skeeterbug joined #padre
16:37 szabgab oh, we are launching the browser now  in a task in a thread?
16:37 szabgab maybe that's what crashing on FreeBSD
16:38 szabgab for abbe
16:39 abbe okay, do you've the code, that does the same in work in main thread.
16:39 abbe to reproduce it, szabgab ?
16:39 szabgab I am writing it now
16:40 abbe thanks szabgab :)
16:40 MoC joined #padre
16:43 Sewi A late comment on the startup time discussion earlier: Is it possible when s/o starts Padre and there is another Padre process running that this running process spawns a whole new window?
16:44 Sewi It must behave like a different Padre window, but it could re-use every module which is already compiled and in Memory and some initlized structures which should speed up things.
16:44 Hyppolit svn: r7709 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7709
16:44 Hyppolit add example to create a menu with an item to open a browser
16:44 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/examples/wx/
16:45 szabgab abbe, there, can you get the new script trunk/Padre/share/examples/wx/23_menu.pl from SVN
16:45 szabgab and check it?
16:45 abbe got it.
16:46 szabgab if that does not crash then I'll tell you how to change padre to launch the browser from main thread
16:47 abbe szabgab, cool, that didn't crash, and it launched conkeror with no perlmonks site opened as mentioned in the menu.
16:47 szabgab with *no* perlmonks?
16:48 abbe szabgab, yes, just conkeror's homepage. it seems conkeror doesn't care about its arguments, conkeror http://perlmonks.org/ doesn't open any website, just the homepage
16:49 szabgab so that is a seprate bug in konq or in wx
16:49 abbe szabgab, conkeror, not konqueror :P
16:49 szabgab you oh
16:49 szabgab oh
16:49 abbe szabgab, and i don't think it is any bug in wx :P
16:50 abbe szabgab, so the bug is in Padre, right ?
16:50 szabgab you can now try and change Padre source so it will launch the browser from its main thread
16:50 szabgab if that still does not crash then it is in the padre threading (maybe padre only maybe thread only)
16:50 szabgab go to Padre::Wx
16:51 abbe szabgab, okay
16:51 abbe szabgab, there.
16:51 szabgab and in sub launch_browser add as the first line
16:51 abbe add what ?
16:52 szabgab Wx::LaunchDefaultBrowser( $_[0] ); return 1l
16:52 szabgab return 1;
16:52 szabgab Wx::LaunchDefaultBrowser( $_[0] ); return 1;
16:52 szabgab sorry, the last one
16:52 abbe done.
16:52 szabgab then start padre again and try the menus
16:53 abbe awesome, szabgab :)
16:53 szabgab is it crashing?
16:53 abbe szabgab, not crashing
16:54 abbe szabgab, let me try the CPAN plugin list thing too.
16:54 szabgab so now I think tsee might be able to take over and look at your crash report
16:54 szabgab and then he will probably direct you to the wxperl mailing list
16:54 abbe szabgab, okay, so CPAN plugin list is also supposed to open a web-browser
16:55 szabgab I think so
16:56 abbe szabgab, so should I recommend posting this patch to the port, or there will be something more better than this ?
16:56 abbe s/should I/you/
16:58 * abbe is away for dinner, be back later.
17:00 szabgab abbe, this does not happen on my system and is the first report of such
17:01 szabgab we probably should see if other operations using the threads also crash padre on your system
17:01 szabgab e.g. opening the Outline window
17:05 azawawi hi
17:06 * azawawi reads Alias's journal :)
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17:14 abbe szabgab, oh, okay.
17:15 abbe anyways thanks, szabgab i'll post this patch to the PR and let maintainer decide whether to include it or not. Thanks for your time, szabgab and azawawi :)
17:16 abbe szabgab,  btw, does wx figures out default web browser to use ?
17:17 azawawi abbe: I should make a freebsd vm soon
17:17 azawawi abbe: you're using 8 beta 3 right?
17:17 abbe yes, azawawi, you've to build ports, afaik, there are no packages for 8-BETA3 yet.
17:18 abbe 8.0-BETA3 (amd64)
17:19 azawawi Alias: nice article ... :)
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18:20 rindolf Hi all.
18:20 rindolf Can anyone help with http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591583 ?
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18:57 rindolf <rindolf> Can anyone help with http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591583 ?
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21:23 Sewi good night
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22:59 fg3 I was all ready to come in here and start chanting moose, moose, moose.   But Alias, he's good!
23:40 phillipadsmith szabgab: good resource for you: http://plone.org/support/h​ow-to-be-an-irc-superstar/

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