Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-09-11

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Time Nick Message
00:09 cowens joined #padre
00:11 pencilpucher joined #padre
00:37 submersible cowens: trac ticket 549 raised for your previous report
00:37 cowens thanks
00:55 cowens and the links seem to be bogus, now that I look at the links themselves
00:56 cowens http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?/X = Y
00:57 cowens It might be worthwhile to use a more custom POD mangler
01:03 mohsen joined #padre
01:16 shadowpaste "cowens" at 76.120.242.56 pasted "patch to fix double anchors" (26 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33715
01:16 cowens it looks like there is a better way to get the output into a string that doesn't double the anchor, but we still have the problem that the anchors point to meaningless URLs
01:23 kthakore joined #padre
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02:07 submersible cowens - I cannot event remember if docbrowser is using Padre::Pod2HTML
02:07 submersible but the whole issue of Section/URI/Other L<> tags in POD is weird
02:10 Alias joined #padre
02:15 mohsen seen szabgab
02:28 PerlJam Just a data point ... I've tried using Padre for editing plain text documents (POD really) and I'm not liking it as much as when I'm editing Perl.   I guess this is where I *really* miss all my vi-keystrokes.
03:00 Alias PerlJam: Padre is indeed primarily targetting Perl
03:10 cowens submersible - it is using Padre::Pod2HTML to display the perlopref stuff, given that I am writing perlopref I have a little interest in how it gets displayed (grin).  I don't know if it is using it for anything else though.
04:25 azawawi joined #padre
04:28 azawawi good morning
04:28 azawawi submersible: ahoy
04:29 azawawi cowens: welcome to #padre
04:29 cowens azawawi: hey
04:30 azawawi i saw your patch...
04:30 azawawi on my backlog scan
04:30 cowens Yeah, and a bug in Pod::Simple::XHTML is causing a render issue with <<= and <<
04:31 azawawi yeah we use it to render perlopref
04:31 azawawi see:
04:31 cowens I have filed a bug on Pod::Simple, but I think I can fix it and the fact that the links created by L<> are meaningless with a couple hacks in Padre::Pod2HTML
04:33 azawawi yup reproducible on win32 also
04:34 cowens The problem is that Pod::Simple::XHTML does not consider the text in =head2 to be verbatim
04:34 azawawi could u give me an example where you see this behavior (in perlopref)
04:34 azawawi i just woke up :)
04:35 azawawi 7:34am here
04:35 cowens It also affects <
04:35 cowens It is 0035 here, haven't been to bed yet
04:36 azawawi e.g. X < Y, i see
04:36 cowens take a look at the header of <, <<, and <<=
04:36 cowens the < character is making it into the HTML as < instead of &lt;, so the HTML render gets confused
04:37 azawawi yeah no escaping
04:37 cowens I believe it is a bug in Pod::Simple::XHTML because I can duplicate it there.
04:37 cowens I debugged Pod::Simple::XHTML and found that it does not consider the text in =head2 to be verbatim.
04:37 szabgab gm
04:38 szabgab mohsen, pong
04:38 szabgab I'll be around later :-)
04:38 cowens I think all of the text in a pod should be verbatim, but I could be wrong
04:38 azawawi cowens: since we're a subclass of it, i believe so
04:38 szabgab cowens, nice to see you here!
04:39 cowens szabgab: I found a couple bugs related to the display of perlopref and I could just leave them alone
04:39 * szabgab is  reading backlog
04:40 azawawi cowens: since we use Padre::Pod2HTML in HtmlWindow, i believe you caught a bigger problem. cowens++ :)
04:40 szabgab cowens, thanks for the bug reports
04:40 szabgab later &
04:40 cowens I may have a tentative hacky patch until Pod::Simple::XHTML gets fixed
04:41 azawawi cowens: it is used by helpprovider in help search and htmlwindow which is the base for everything else that displays pod->html
04:43 * azawawi tries cowens's patch
04:44 Fayland joined #padre
04:47 azawawi brb... restart
04:52 shadowpaste "cowens" at 76.120.242.56 pasted "Hacky patch to fix <, <<, and <<= (warning, it is cumulative with the last patch)" (41 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/33720
04:53 cowens You will also want to get the latest version of perlopref, I had to fix some bugs in it as well
04:53 kentnl joined #padre
04:55 azawawi ok
04:56 azawawi cowens: to update it, C:\tools\padre\Padre>perl ..\tools\update_perlopref.pl
04:56 Hyppolit svn: r7831 | fayland++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7831
04:56 Hyppolit zh-cn po updates
04:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
04:58 Hyppolit svn: r7832 | fayland++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7832
04:58 Hyppolit zh-cn updates
04:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
05:01 Hyppolit svn: r7833 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7833
05:01 Hyppolit [Padre] Bundled the latest perlopref.pod which includes the following changes (cowens++):
05:01 Hyppolit [Padre] - Fixed links in <<= and >>= See also section
05:01 Hyppolit [Padre] - Modified PRECEDENCE, added skeleton for filetests
05:01 Hyppolit [Padre] - Added xor and fixed ^ to say exclusive-or
05:01 Hyppolit [Padre] - Fixed ||
05:02 Hyppolit [Padre] - Added 'and' and 'or'
05:02 Hyppolit [Padre] - Added See also to !, &&, and ||, fixed links in ~
05:02 Hyppolit [Padre] - Added comma, =>, and not
05:02 Hyppolit [Padre] - Noted the use of !!
05:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/doc/
05:06 szabgab cowens++ # perlcolor
05:07 szabgab cowens, there is another project you might want to take upon you :-)
05:11 Fayland joined #padre
05:11 Hyppolit svn: r7834 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7834
05:11 Hyppolit [Padre] Applied cowens++ patch that fixes ticket:549 and fixes
05:11 Hyppolit [Padre] a bug with Pod::Simple::XHTML where <, <<=, and > are not
05:11 Hyppolit [Padre] escaped into their corresponding HTML entities.
05:11 cowens szabgab: yes, I was thinking of expanding it
05:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
05:12 azawawi cowens: close ticket:549 ?
05:12 cowens azawawi: If you are happy with the second patch, then yes
05:13 azawawi already applied :)
05:13 cowens azawawi: I consider it a horrible hack, but we can't do better until the upstream dependency is fixed
05:13 azawawi Padre::Pod2HTML was a hack :)
05:14 azawawi i'll add what happened here to the ticket so we can reference it later
05:16 cowens The worst part is I am always telling people that regexes and HTML don't mix, so I am being a hypocrite
05:19 azawawi maybe the situation will be better in the future with Perl 6 grammars, rules, tokens...
05:19 azawawi i.e. more human friendly regexes
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05:20 azawawi cowens: how about a commit bit?
05:20 cowens sure, I will take one (even though you aren't using git)
05:21 azawawi szabgab: one commit bit please for cowens++ :)
05:22 azawawi cowens: i am forking perlopref today and pushing some changes :)
05:22 azawawi cowens: though im new to git in general
05:22 azawawi how much is left %-wise?
05:22 cowens Good, I have had too much of a hand in it, I am certain there are mistakes and things that are clear to me but not to others
05:23 cowens All of the filetest operators and any operators that were not part of the order of operations table
05:23 azawawi i remember Sewi++ telling me how badly we need a Perl 5 Operator periodic table like Perl 6's ...
05:24 azawawi so what can i work on for a start?
05:25 cowens The filetest operators, or you can just review the doc for errors and things that need to be clarified
05:26 azawawi sure filetest are easy and i'll review it for errors...
05:31 cowens git with github is easy, just click on fork in my project page, this will create a new project on your project page, click the copy-to-clipboard button next to "Your clone URL", then type git clone <paste>, this will create the repo, chdir in and start making changes, when you want to commit, type git commit -a and it will tell you what files are being commited, type the commit message at the top of the file, then type git push to push th
05:31 cowens changes back up to github
05:32 azawawi will do that today
05:32 azawawi which will be your tonight :)
05:32 azawawi or morning
05:33 azawawi cowens: any chance we could rethink the name perlopref ?
05:34 azawawi cowens: i was talking with Alias (adam kennedy) and he didnt understand it the first time...
05:34 cowens yes, I chose it because of perlreref
05:34 cowens but I am not wedded to it
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05:37 azawawi cowens: you're on linux or OS X?
05:38 cowens both, but my main machine spends most of its time in OS X
05:39 azawawi cool then could you help out on Padre on OSX packaging on your spare time?
05:39 cowens At work I use synergy to tie together WinXP, OS X, and Ubuntu (all controlled through the OS X box)
05:40 azawawi cowens: http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/09/1252571011.html
05:40 cowens I can try, but OS X has a big issue: auto-indenting doesn't work
05:40 azawawi what version of OS X? the latest?
05:40 cowens 10.5 still, not feeling good about the 64-bit conversion
05:41 azawawi im was thinking of buying a Mac laptop for dev (newbie there)
05:41 pece joined #padre
05:43 cowens I bought a MacBook Pro two years ago, I ran Linux on it almost exclusively until Ubuntu 8.04 broke the sound card, I have recompiled the kernel enough times in this life, so I started playing with OS X, it is a decent enough UNIX, but I do spend a LOT of my time ssh'ed into Linux boxes at work
05:44 cowens Ubuntu 9.04 fixed the sound card, but now I am used to OS X, dilemmas
05:44 cowens The biggest problem is the lack of a decent default packaging system, you use ports or fink, but only that stuff is packaged
05:45 azawawi i see
05:47 MMS joined #padre
05:47 cowens It might be a good idea to see if I can get Padre working under platypus (http://www.sveinbjorn.org/platypus)
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06:41 szabgab cowens, I am here only for a few seconds now, how about taking a look at the calltips padre has?
06:41 cowens szabgab: huh?
06:41 cowens like intelisense?
06:41 szabgab see trunk/Padre/share/languages/perl5/perl5.yml
06:42 szabgab as you type a command   it will give you a popup with a small example on how to use it
06:42 szabgab what parameters it can get
06:42 szabgab we have the data in that file
06:42 szabgab http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/P​adre/share/languages/perl5/perl5.yml
06:43 cowens Is that enabled by the default install of Padre? or do I need to install it as well
06:43 szabgab View/Calltips
06:43 szabgab I think it is currently disabled by default
06:43 szabgab View/Show Call Tips
06:44 cowens seems to be working in OS X
06:44 szabgab my point is that I think it should not be part of padre
06:44 cowens is it only core functions?
06:44 szabgab yes I think
06:45 szabgab I think the whole idea should be taken further and at one point packaged separately so other editors or tools can also use it
06:45 szabgab and I have to go now, sorry
06:45 cowens Ah, I see
06:45 cowens k
06:48 ppant joined #padre
07:07 azawawi szabgab: added Padre to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WxWidget​s#Applications_built_using_wxWidgets
07:10 azawawi szabgab: also i noticed in wxwidgets 3.0 changes file the following:
07:10 azawawi szabgab: The "stc" and "svg" contribs instead have been moved respectively into a new "official" library stc and in the core lib.
07:10 azawawi szabgab: http://svn.wxwidgets.org/svn/wx/​wxWidgets/trunk/docs/changes.txt
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07:41 Alias azawawi: You know, if there was a series of them, and ref was first, it would be more recognisable
07:41 Alias perlrefop
07:41 Alias perlrefre
07:41 Alias et al
07:43 azawawi cowens is not online atm
07:43 azawawi perlrefop makes sense
07:44 azawawi regarding rtl in about box in linux, is it working?
07:45 azawawi no way to change it at the moment in win32 other than reversing words...
07:45 azawawi no supported rtl tags in wxhtml
07:47 tsee joined #padre
07:48 tsee Alias, ping?
07:49 azawawi hi tsee
07:49 tsee Hi azawawi
07:50 szabgab heyho
07:51 szabgab azawawi, once we make further progress with cowens I think we should try to ignite the translation process of the calltips and the perlrefop etc.
07:52 azawawi sure :)
07:52 azawawi hehehe
07:53 Alias tsee: pong
07:53 * azawawi evil laugh
07:53 tsee I've been thinking (a little) about projects&refactoring.
07:53 tsee Really only a little.
07:53 tsee But I think what would make it a lot easier would a sort of "collection of PPI documents" thing.
07:54 tsee Which could also track changes on-disk.
07:54 tsee Or could at least re-parse-when-changed-only
07:54 tsee Does that sound familiar to you at all?
07:54 azawawi like Eclipse
07:54 azawawi cached
07:55 azawawi on-save
07:55 tsee I was thinking of Alias' CPANDB cache.
07:55 Alias There's already PPI::Cache, which gets you a 4-fold speed up
07:55 tsee Alias: Sidenote: PPI::XSAccessor totally crashes the PPI testsuite for me.
07:55 Alias And I'd love a document mutation counter
07:55 Alias tsee: It should
07:55 tsee Okay, fine.
07:55 Alias tsee: It was easier to leave it in as a demo than remove iut
07:56 tsee Okay.
07:56 tsee Too bad. I wanted to use it as a benchmark.
07:56 szabgab tsee, hi, long time not seen
07:56 tsee szabgab, too much work, unfortunately.
07:56 szabgab have you seen the logs of why ActiveState cannot build Wx?
07:57 tsee Which is also why I'm only going to throw around a few ideas and then disappear again.
07:57 tsee No.
07:57 tsee Anyhow. Having a sort of PPI-cache for the current project would be awesome.
07:57 tsee Because parsing all documents on each refactoring call would be prohibitive.
07:57 szabgab tsee, http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/508  look at this if you have some time
07:57 tsee And it'd also remove the need to write file-system-level code for the refactoring code.
07:58 szabgab http://ppm4.activestate.com/MSWin32-x86/5.10/100​0/M/MB/MBARBON/Wx-0.92.d/log-20090902T150346.txt
07:58 szabgab specifically
07:58 tsee szabgab, sorry. I have a talk on monday and haven't even started doing the analysis that I want to base it on :/
07:58 szabgab np
08:11 azawawi szabgab: is your name/mine showing correctly in Padre's about box on linux?
08:13 mohsen szabgab: I know how to build debian packages and some other stuff, if u need my help for padre packaging
08:13 szabgab hi mohsen
08:14 mohsen plus, I encourage my colleagues to using padre instead of Komodo edit
08:14 mohsen hi szabgab
08:14 szabgab Ryan52, is the one who is our main connection to Debian and Ubuntu, I think the best to discuss with him what help he might need
08:14 szabgab mohsen, thanks
08:15 mohsen Is he online?
08:15 szabgab usually he is
08:15 szabgab he is also the release manager of Padre for the next month or so
08:15 mohsen he is sleep:p
08:16 szabgab but he is in the US so these might be those 2-3 hours of the day when he is asleep :-)
08:16 mohsen If i find sometime i will continue Persian Translation
08:16 szabgab that would be great I think
08:16 mohsen I'm busy as usual:D
08:16 szabgab the key is I think to get you r co-workers do it :-)
08:17 mohsen here there is chance that we start using Padre as offical Perl Editor for our development
08:17 szabgab wow
08:17 mohsen 50 developer
08:17 szabgab all located in ?
08:17 mohsen but sysadmin team naging about module installation and diffculties
08:18 szabgab or we don't talk about that?
08:18 mohsen All located in Malaysia
08:18 szabgab ah
08:18 szabgab still
08:18 szabgab what os are they on?
08:18 mohsen CentOS and Ubuntu
08:19 szabgab so here is a thing that you could really help
08:19 szabgab forget about packaging Padre for Ubuntu in .deb
08:19 mohsen why not?
08:19 szabgab we would like to have a stand alone thingy that you can download, unzip and run
08:19 mohsen Mmm..sounds good
08:20 mohsen I've tried that once, and works
08:20 szabgab oh I just mean to forget it for now, I really want the .debs too :-)
08:20 mohsen i can build all debs
08:20 mohsen and probably create a repo
08:20 szabgab but then it is only for .deb based things
08:20 mohsen for major distros
08:20 szabgab and you just said you have centos
08:21 szabgab which is afaik rpm based
08:21 mohsen or I can create a script which anyone can run it and create a repo for a distor
08:21 mohsen distro*
08:21 mohsen we are 2 company
08:21 szabgab that might be also good, the big issue I think is wxPerl and compiling with Gtk
08:21 mohsen we using ubuntu and they are using centos
08:22 mohsen but wxperl is works fine on ubuntu, isn't it?
08:22 szabgab so what I hope to have is a package that contains  a full perl installation including padre
08:23 szabgab we need the newest wxperl that is only in 9.04
08:23 mohsen mybe with locallib?
08:23 mohsen i see
08:23 szabgab locallib will do the perl stuff but it still needs the gtk headres
08:23 szabgab so it is still dependent on the current system
08:23 szabgab hence I think we need to compile gtk into that package
08:24 mohsen then u want a Par Package?
08:24 szabgab unfortunatelly par has issues and for now we put the PAR package on hold
08:24 mohsen what's the issue?
08:24 mohsen isn't fixable?
08:24 szabgab http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Distribution
08:25 szabgab it is fixable juts tsee says it is difficult
08:26 szabgab I outlined several possibilities there
08:26 mohsen let me do some testing on latest padre
08:26 szabgab I think http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Distribut​ion#Downloadableexe-fullperlwithPadreinside is the most user friendly
08:26 mohsen maybe I can come up with something
08:26 szabgab good
08:27 mohsen i didn't try latest padre yet
08:30 szabgab I have to go now
08:30 szabgab bbl &
08:30 mohsen ok c u then
08:36 Hyppolit svn: r7835 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7835
08:36 Hyppolit [Padre] Fix RTL names in about box
08:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
08:43 Hyppolit svn: r7836 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7836
08:43 Hyppolit [Padre] Perl tidy...
08:43 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
08:51 tsee mohsen, the problem with a Padre.exe made with PAR is not really a PAR issue per se. It works fine. It's just that Padre expects to be able to have a perl executable available.
08:51 tsee mohsen, For example for the syntax checker.
08:51 Alias PAR .exe are not reentrant
08:51 Alias Basically
08:51 tsee Alias They are now!
08:51 Alias Not fully
08:52 Alias Only trivially
08:52 tsee I sat down and extended PAR::Packer so you could re-use a PAR-created executables.
08:52 tsee BUT
08:52 tsee You cannot pass perl.exe options.
08:52 tsee Other than that, it's re-usable.
08:52 tsee Specifically "-c" / compile is a problem.
08:52 tsee Because for bootstrapping, PAR has to run code and only then calls the suer code.
08:52 Alias It's a pity we can't just bundle an entire perl.exe
08:53 Alias And use that directly
08:53 tsee IDEA
08:54 tsee Package Padre as usual.
08:54 tsee Hmm. No.
08:54 tsee "-c" is the real problem.
08:54 tsee But as an über-dirty hack, you could force-add the system's perl.exe.
08:55 tsee I.e. package it into the padre.exe
08:55 Alias oh yeah
08:55 tsee So it gets extracted to the temporaary dir.
08:55 Alias Make it an optional thing in the pp
08:55 Alias --perlexe
08:55 tsee Nono. That's too hacky to be easily accessible.
08:55 tsee Then do dirty tricks with PERL5OPT and PERL5LIB to add the extracted inc/ lib-path.
08:55 tsee BUT
08:56 tsee perl.exe's come with an @INC compiled in.
08:56 tsee In PAR::Packer, we have bootstrapping code than can clear @INC from Perl-land.
08:56 tsee In that case, you can just add stuff to the front.
08:56 tsee Which could sort-of work, maybe
08:57 tsee Wasn't there this funny pre-execution eval hack that AS used for their config?
08:57 tsee I.e. a certain .pl file being executed before anything else?
08:57 tsee Alias, you should know this, right?
08:57 tsee Because if we have that, we can just set @INC there.
08:57 tsee And then it's all done.
08:58 tsee I cringe at the thought of maintaining such a system.
08:58 tsee But I cringe at the thought of maintaining the PAR bootstrap process as well, so no big deal :P
08:58 tsee If only I had some time to do this.
08:59 tsee Actually. It should even be fairly easy to compile a modified version of parl.exe which doesn't do the fancy PAR bootstrapping and expects to sit in a temporary area already when being run.
08:59 tsee That would be the sort of thing for a --perlexe
09:00 tsee Somebody try to get a TPF grant for that.
09:00 tsee $Somebody ne "Steffen"
09:00 * tsee & # work
09:04 Alias tsee: There's a site.pl type thing
09:04 Alias You aren't allowed to use it as a vendor, but for PAR it might fall into it's usage
09:05 tsee Alias: sitecustomize.pl! That's what I was thinking of.
09:05 tsee That mechanism, anyway.
09:05 Alias I think that falls into the scope of PAR
09:05 Alias It didn't really work for Portable
09:05 Alias Well, it would actually work
09:05 tsee Depending on what happens with it in "-c" mode, it might just be our saviour.
09:05 Alias But as a result I'd be doing vendor stuff in a site thing
09:07 tsee I agree that it's bad for a perl distribution. But for an application deployment like with PAR, that's fair enough.
09:07 tsee But ENOTIME :(
09:08 Alias ya
09:08 Alias Post a blog post detailing the solution that's in your head
09:08 Alias Then either someone will do it, or at least you can point to it later
09:08 Alias That's half the reason I have my journal
09:08 tsee It's still very fuzzy.
09:08 tsee Yeah, same here.
09:10 tsee Though I used more to publicize use cases.
09:10 tsee A sort of replacement for sitting down and writing walkthroughs/howtos/tutorials.
09:10 Alias ya
09:10 tsee This latter category gives rise to this sort of journal entry: http://use.perl.org/~tsee/journal/39313
09:10 tsee left #padre
09:10 tsee joined #padre
09:12 tsee Also, very relevant to above discussion: http://use.perl.org/~tsee/journal/32140
09:12 tsee This is from almost three years ago :)
09:13 tsee It's 50% of the solution.
09:16 mohsen tsee then why not creating standalone executable using Par::Packer
09:16 tsee mohsen: That's what we've been talking about all this time.
09:17 tsee Reason up until recently: Can't run other code than the app. That's fixed in PAR::Packer trunk. It creatres re-usable exes.
09:17 tsee Reason now: Can't do "perl -c foo.pl".
09:17 tsee So the idea is to have a sort of mock-up perl.exe within the PAR::Packer generated padre.exe
09:23 Alias mohsen: -c is the most obvious one, but in theory other new features might also fail
09:24 Alias Testing your code runs with tainting on, for example
09:24 Alias -T, -w
09:24 Alias All kinds of random things
09:24 Alias tsee: Even more of a problem is the make test features
09:24 tsee You can fake up some of those.
09:24 Alias That we don't have yet, but will definitely end up existing
09:24 tsee taint may totally break things.
09:24 tsee But -w is just $^W.
09:25 tsee Yes. Maybe.
09:25 tsee Essentially, it'll boil down to a "perl.exe" required thing.
09:25 tsee Anything else will probably incur pain down the road.
09:25 mohsen have u tried Par::Packer?
09:25 Alias heh
09:25 tsee mohsen, yes. I wrote half of it :)
09:25 Alias mohsen: Do you know who tsee is? :)
09:26 tsee So I have high hopes for the combination of a modified parl and inclusing of that executable in the padre.exe.
09:26 mohsen :d:p
09:26 mohsen Alias: no:p
09:26 tsee /whois tsee
09:27 tsee Match that against http://search.cpan.org/dist/PAR-Packer/
09:27 mohsen :p
09:28 mohsen Actually i used PAR::Packer to create standalone version of this http://www.healthiercompany.com which is huge code based on CGI::Application and Dbix::class
09:29 mohsen with tones of depenency
09:29 tsee Awesome!
09:29 tsee I'd totally buy you a beer if you could blog about it.
09:29 mohsen it works except Imagemagick which we did a trick
09:29 tsee PAR has an undeservedly bad reputation in some circles.
09:29 tsee People think it's hacky.
09:29 mohsen I would blog about it:D then
09:29 tsee Which it is. But it is so the users don't have to do hacks.
09:29 tsee mohsen, thanks a lot!
09:30 tsee I know PAR's being used to deploy apps to ~40k computers in some companies.
09:30 tsee Many, many large companies use it, but I can't run around pointing at them because they've told me in private (usually asking for some support).
09:30 mohsen our code is massive
09:31 tsee The more massive the better!
09:31 mohsen u can login to website with my account as see
09:31 mohsen lot's of bioinformatic stuff
09:31 tsee I'd love to, but maybe tonight?
09:31 tsee I really need to prepare this presentation today :(
09:31 mohsen use:mohsen@genseq.co.uk pass:1234
09:31 tsee So I'm really itiching to get some people to stand up and say "Yes, we use it. YES, it helps us. It's great. Go try it, too!"
09:32 tsee Actually Perl could use a lot of that. Not just PAR!
09:32 mohsen It really help us to create usb stick version of our app
09:32 mohsen and we made it
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09:32 tsee mohsen, this makes my day :)
09:32 mohsen for those who dont have any access to internet
09:33 mohsen and we give them complete health assement
09:33 tsee mohsen: wrt. that user/password combination. This channel is logged.
09:34 tsee Also: "Notice:Your email is registered in our system, however it is not yet confirmed."
09:34 mohsen no problem: my informations are testing
09:34 tsee Okay. Just wanted to make sure.
09:34 mohsen :D
09:38 tsee mohsen: When/if you blog about it, would you send me a quick email notice so I don't miss it?
09:38 tsee smueller@cpan.org
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09:39 mohsen sure
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10:33 rindolf http://fc-solve.berlios.de/code-of-conduct/
10:39 rhebus Hmm, I've found an issue with the outline window, but I don't think it's worth fixing. Should I report it anyway? :/
10:40 rhebus The issue is that in the progam 'use strict; package Foo; print "foo\n"; package Bar; print "bar\n";' the pragma 'use strict' is nested within package Foo but it in fact affects both packages
10:42 rhebus so the outline window is wrong; but only in a way which will affect multiple package per file programs. Not only that, but getting it right is nontrivial -- "use strict" ignores packages (so even if declared inside Foo above it would affect Bar) while "use base" is clearly package-based.
10:42 El_Che lo
10:43 rhebus I think our efforts are better spent fixing other problems, but something in me feels this should be documented somewhere anyway
10:43 rhebus what do you think?
10:43 El_Che I would report it
10:43 rhebus should I create a ticket?
10:43 rhebus ok
10:43 El_Che then if someone has the time an decide it to fix it or not
10:43 El_Che (or even mark it as notfix)
10:44 mst joined #padre
10:45 mst code_of_conduct.html-- # mindless copying without understanding
10:45 mst really, guys, wtf ...
10:46 mst the spirit in which dreamwidth published the original makes total sense to me
10:46 mst but
10:47 mst you can't change a couple of sentences and have something oriented around a prose writing/social community suddenly apply just as well to a software project
10:47 mst the language and register need to be different
10:48 rhebus I'm not sure that people are afraid to join a software project because of possible discrimination
10:48 El_Che it's a first go at it
10:48 rhebus and that, if that were the case, a statement like that would ease their fears
10:48 El_Che I am sure gabor and the rest are open to discussions (he sent a mail to the mailing list asking for feedback)
10:50 El_Che mst: from Moose and DBIx::Class?
10:50 mst yep.
10:51 El_Che welcome :)
10:51 mst it's not a "go" at all, that I can see, it's pretty much the exact original statement with a couple sentences describing the project
10:52 El_Che I don't know dreamwidth really, I was thinking it was more tailored after ubuntu's code of conduct
10:52 mst if you follow the link to the dreamwidth one
10:52 mst you can see how little difference there is
10:53 mst I mean it even still says "heard services say"
10:53 mst in a manner that implies the padre is a service
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11:02 CSJewell mst: It can use some scrubbing down - but I know that this project is of the "release often" school - and I think this applies here, as well.  They know it  needs changing, they've asked for ideas (not that I had any for them)
11:03 mst right
11:03 mst which is why I'm trying to explain why I can see the -idea-
11:03 mst but the actual words make me want to vomit
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11:09 waxhead evening all
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11:16 rindolf waxhead: hi.
11:19 tsee vomit++
11:20 waxhead who's vomiting?
11:22 azawawi hmmm, "Move to trash" is not working on win32 since Win32::FileOp is not installed by default...
11:22 azawawi http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Fil​e-Remove-1.42/lib/File/Remove.pm
11:23 Alias mst: I concur, fwiw
11:23 Alias mst: Also, you have commit and we encourage creative anarchy
11:24 Alias hrm
11:24 azawawi Alias: what do u think about "Move to trash" not working on win32?
11:25 Alias I think I'm going to takeover Win32::FileOp
11:25 El_Che Alias: please don't get run over by a truck
11:26 tsee define anarchy: The largest truck wins!
11:26 Alias My mom has instructions for if I do :)
11:26 Alias er, mum
11:30 El_Che http://rlv.zcache.com/i_love_my_geek_t_​shirt-p235582803493883960avqs8_500.jpg
11:30 El_Che I am sure she wears that
11:33 azawawi Alias: even with Win32::FileOp installed, File::Remove does not trash to recycle bin. it simply deletes...
11:34 azawawi Alias: i guess it is ancient... or it hasnt been deleted thoroughly...
11:34 azawawi Alias: s/deleted/tested  :)
11:35 azawawi Alias: it doesnt work on linux. only on Mac (presumably...)
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11:41 Hyppolit svn: r7837 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7837
11:41 Hyppolit [Padre] Bundled the latest perlopref.pod which includes the following changes (cowens++):
11:41 Hyppolit [Padre] - fixed links containing || and //
11:41 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/doc/
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12:00 Hyppolit svn: r7838 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7838
12:00 Hyppolit [Padre] Updated Changes
12:00 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
12:04 Hyppolit svn: r7839 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7839
12:04 Hyppolit [Padre] Disabled "Move to trash" on win32 since it is not working
12:04 Hyppolit [Padre] See ticket:553
12:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Directory/
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13:39 Ryan52 szabgab: what did mohsen want?
13:40 szabgab he offered help for packaging padre on Debian/Ubuntu
13:40 szabgab but I was actually trying to divert him in the direction of creating a stand-alone downloadable zip file that includes everything, including the gtk libraries
13:41 Ryan52 ah
13:41 mst szabgab:
13:41 szabgab mst, hi
13:41 mst szabgab: the code of conduct thing really really needs, well, writing
13:41 mst rather than plagiarsing with a couple of s///s from a document designed for a different purpose
13:42 mst I can see why you want something like that
13:42 mst but you need one that talks about software stuff
13:42 mst rather than one what still refers to a service and is clearly literary-oriented rather than code oriented
13:43 szabgab well I'd be glad if you sent me ideas what to write
13:45 mst well
13:45 mst starting from scratch and saying
13:46 mst "I want to make something like the dreamwidth thing, but oreinted towards a software/OSS community rather than a writing/blogger community"
13:46 mst should lead you down a sensible path
13:46 szabgab thank you
13:46 mst what you have currently looks like somebody said "YEAH WE SHOULD HAVE A DIVERSITY STATEMENT LET'S GET A TEMPLATE"
13:46 mst it's too jarring to come across as at all sincere
13:47 mst feels like a form letter
13:47 mst sorry, I know I'm being fuzzy here
13:47 El_Che mst: you have a point, but you sound rather aggressive about it
13:48 El_Che that page must really annoy you :)
13:48 mst it does.
13:49 mst it comes across as the sort of meaningless bullshit written my middle aged white men in order to reassure other middle aged white men that they're not prejudiced, really, some of my best friends are gay paraplegic ragheads
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14:10 Alias <mst> it's too jarring to come across as at all sincere
14:10 Alias What he said
14:20 Ryan52 szabgab: so speaking of Debian/Ubuntu stuff, did you try to contact the splash image person again?
14:21 szabgab sorry, not yet
14:22 Ryan52 oh and I intend to do a release tonight (tho I guess that's tomorrow morning in most of your timezones)...any reason not to?
14:25 CSJewell I have no reason.
14:25 rhebus the extract subroutine code is flaky, but usable
14:25 CSJewell (sorry, should clarify - I know of no problems I have with doing a release.)
14:27 szabgab it does not seem to crash or corrupt your code so we can consider it stable, right?
14:27 * szabgab is looking up the word jarring
14:27 rhebus yeah, by "flaky" I mean "doesn't always do the right thing". It doesn't crash or break or anything
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14:29 szabgab rhebus, do I understand correctly that this is the same code used by EPIC ?
14:29 szabgab same CPAN module that is
14:31 rhebus szabgab: it's the same CPAN module, yes, but there are problems with the way it is integrated
14:31 rhebus for example #537 is not the problem of Devel::Refactor, it is the problem of the Padre code
14:31 szabgab I think it is ok, in the announcement it is worth saying it is experimental but I think besides that  it should be ok
14:31 rhebus fine with me
14:32 szabgab and call people to "stress test" it and report any issues
14:34 szabgab Alias, you'd be welcome to improve that text
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15:46 Sewi hi all
15:46 mst left #padre
15:50 Alias szabgab: Frankly, I find the website so ugly I can't stand to work on it or anywhere near it
15:50 Alias I'll stick to where I'm useful
15:50 Alias It almost literally gives me a headache
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23:35 Hyppolit svn: r7840 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7840
23:35 Hyppolit Applied (Jason Best)++'s patch against "start server" bug
23:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/t/
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23:39 Hyppolit svn: r7841 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7841
23:39 Hyppolit upped Padre dependency to 0.41
23:39 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
23:40 Hyppolit svn: r7842 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7842
23:40 Hyppolit tidying up TODO list
23:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
23:41 Hyppolit svn: r7843 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7843
23:41 Hyppolit preparing for 0.05 release
23:41 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst​/lib/Padre/Plugin/Catalyst/

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