Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-09-30

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Time Nick Message
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01:31 Alias_ Dear Padre
01:31 Alias_ You are falling behind my repository again, k tnks bye! :)
01:31 * Alias_ pulls away again, getting closer to 1000 higher :)
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03:32 ppant good morning
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04:48 Hyppolit #619: Multiple files open, editor switches between tabs by itself (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/619 ]
04:52 mohsen anybody knows why padre::plugin::commanline doesn't work?
04:53 mohsen it says padre::plugin::commandline is not padre::plugin subclass
04:56 Hyppolit #620: Suggestion: Hotkey to indent/unindent selection (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/620 ]
05:20 Alias_ My guess would be that Padre::Plugin::CommandLine is not a Padre::Plugin subclass :)
05:22 Ryan52 woah Alias_ you're good at this lol
05:22 Alias_ It's amazing how often doing that actually works
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05:37 Sewi good morning
05:38 Ryan52 good morning Sewi
05:39 Sewi Hi Ryan52.
05:39 Sewi Any Debian news?
05:42 Ryan52 no free time atm.
05:42 Sewi I know this problem myself :-(
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07:00 Hyppolit #617: Random crashes while editing (syntax highlighting suggestion) (assigned defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/617#comment:2 ]
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07:01 azawawi good morning
07:01 Sewi azawawi: good morning
07:01 azawawi that bugfix should fix drag-n-drop and open url
07:01 * azawawi tests it
07:05 Hyppolit svn: r8467 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8467
07:05 Hyppolit [Padre] convert relative to absolute path only if the file exists...
07:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
07:05 azawawi /clear
07:05 azawawi :)
07:06 azawawi btw, on win32 open file dialog can read urls by default
07:07 azawawi and they are placed in internet explorer's temporary cache...
07:07 azawawi Sewi: they now work as expected. Sewi++
07:13 azawawi Sewi: Alias said 'Dear Padre, You are falling behind my repository again, k tnks bye! :)'
07:13 azawawi Alias: )
07:13 azawawi Alias: :)
07:13 azawawi Alias: :;)
07:14 Sewi azawawi: Thanks, but this isn't what Padre::File want's :-) Win downloads the file itself and give the App a local file and Padre::File should be cable of really editing remote files.
07:15 azawawi Eclipse run dialogs are really powerful
07:16 azawawi i configured a task to "open in windows explorer" the current file and it worked without a glitch
07:16 azawawi lots of variables to use... even env variables...
07:17 azawawi having such a system in Padre would allow perltidy, perlcritic to be merely external tasks...
07:39 azawawi Eclipse JEE edition opens in 5 seconds while Padre opens in 3 secs ... Not bad :)
07:39 Sewi Yeah, 3 secs too much :-))
07:40 azawawi the trick is to lazy load stuff
07:41 azawawi padre => 37 MB, eclipse => 120 MB
07:41 azawawi on startup, so i guess on a low memory, padre would win everytime
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07:55 mohsen is Wx::Perl::ProcessStream working?
07:56 azawawi it works on win atm
07:57 azawawi i think there was a linux bug report about yesterday
07:57 azawawi installation-wise
08:05 azawawi Sewi: it takes like 13-sec to PPI parse all of the project's *.pm files (on Padre)
08:13 submersible tsee: ping!
08:13 tsee submersible, sorry, on the run.
08:13 submersible np - try me later or tomorrw
08:13 tsee If you send me mail, I'll be able to reply on the we.
08:14 tsee I'll be on a trip until friday.
08:14 tsee Sorry.
08:14 submersible rgr. which addr?
08:14 tsee The cpan one will do.
08:14 submersible thanks
08:14 tsee smueller is the id :)
08:15 azawawi submersible: hey
08:15 submersible hi
08:16 mohsen Wx-Perl-ProcessStream tests are broken in linux
08:16 azawawi submersible: do you know how to access the number of methods,variables in a running perl process?
08:16 submersible oooh -
08:16 submersible ask a different question
08:16 mohsen i'm trying to write a plugin two show log tails in a panel, any idea how i can read end of files?
08:16 azawawi mohsen: 0.19 works but 0.20
08:17 submersible azawawi: 'why' do u want to know..? :_)
08:17 mohsen i tried with ProcessStream but seems it's not gonna work on my linux box
08:17 azawawi submersible: padre info tab containing stuff about what padre is doing is cool
08:17 mohsen any idea?
08:17 submersible mohsen: I think cpan has some prior art for tailing streams
08:17 azawawi mohsen: pip 0.19 it should work
08:17 mohsen is those are blocking?
08:18 * submersible slaps head
08:18 azawawi mohsen: pip http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MD​/MDOOTSON/Wx-Perl-ProcessStream-0.19.tar.gz
08:18 submersible sry
08:18 mohsen i'm looking for non-blocking or event based thingy...i guess
08:18 submersible mohsen: consider a ::Task or ::Service
08:18 submersible actually would need to be a service
08:18 mohsen submersible: what's these two? i've no clue
08:19 submersible see Padre::Task
08:19 mohsen ok
08:19 submersible and by extension Padre::Service
08:19 submersible you could write a service that uses blocking io in another thread (tasks and services run in separate threads to the gui)
08:20 submersible and when the service thread sees some data from it's log tailer (whatever that is) it can ->post_event() back to the gui
08:20 mohsen then which one is best for my purpose?
08:21 submersible task has no feedback ... so not what u want
08:21 mohsen service or task?
08:21 submersible subclass service
08:21 mohsen ok
08:21 submersible I think there may be only one example..
08:22 mohsen let me see what service has to say...i need to find what's all about
08:22 submersible in fact.. looking closer - there are no users of service except something awful I'm still working on
08:23 submersible so there are bound to be some bugs.
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08:37 * submersible ponders Coro again
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08:54 Hyppolit #617: Random crashes while editing (syntax highlighting suggestion) (assigned defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/617#comment:1.3 ]
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10:57 kthakore hi
10:57 kthakore who is reponsible for padre's trac site?
10:58 kthakore I need help setting mines up.
10:58 kthakore msg me . bb &
11:15 Sewi kthakore: look out for szabgab...
11:21 shadowpaste "daxim" at 217.168.144.84 pasted "Wx-Perl-ProcessStream test failures" (113 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/34412
11:21 kthakore Sewi: ok
11:22 kthakore Sewi: I tried the trunk no fail on my linux box!
11:22 daxim Sewi, are you aware of the existence of Number::Format and Number::Bytes::Human?
11:22 daxim if yes, what do you do different to justify your module's existence?
11:25 Sewi daxim: I'm not aware of them, sorry. Seems that I did double work, tried many searches on CPAN but didn't find them.
11:25 daxim yeah, you can delete it
11:26 daxim I have a whole collection of reinvented wheels
11:26 daxim Recode Text::FindLinks Hash::Path Encode::Bootstring Math::NumberBase Lingua::Lid App::MultiLanguage Money::Chinese
11:27 daxim and that's just from the last two months.
11:27 Sewi daxim: But N:D:H gives different results  and is alpha
11:27 daxim results for what?
11:29 Sewi I just looked at the CPAN site... It shows fixed decimals.
11:30 daxim sorry, you confuse me; can you say more clearly what is expected and what is wrong?
11:30 Sewi An F:H:B gives more exact results, it shows 2048 kB instead of 2 MB (which could be 2040 or 2500 kB), the switchover is at 8.
11:31 Sewi It's not wrong, but the samples show one fixed decimal instead of a configurable amount. No big differences :-)
11:33 daxim can't you just subclass existing modules? or provide a patch to the original author?
11:34 Sewi daxim: I uploaded a Module which I used for 5 years or so, maybe even more. Just made an installer package of it (which was harder than I thought) and rewrote the tests, it isn't a subclass of N:B:H or a patch. It has nothing to do with it.
11:36 daxim as you wish.  just keep in mind that senseless module proliferation doesn't help anybody, especially since no one can easily tell the differences and advantages between thematically related modules except the authors themselves
11:39 Alias Pot, meet Kettle :)
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11:40 Sewi daxim: I know what you mean, maybe I should add some more samples to the POD.
11:40 daxim definitely
11:40 daxim and jack it up to Yotta-
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11:40 waxhead evening all
11:41 Sewi daxim: And I'll think about merging it to the other one...
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12:50 Hyppolit svn: r8468 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8468
12:50 Hyppolit Cloning the original splash to a new ccnc "Creative Common Non-Commercial" file name so that the base filename can be replaced with a boring Debian-friendly splash.
12:50 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/
12:52 Hyppolit svn: r8469 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8469
12:52 Hyppolit Default to last loaded session on save-session
12:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
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13:19 Hyppolit svn: r8470 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8470
13:19 Hyppolit Removed dump file from PopularityContest
13:19 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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13:50 Hyppolit #620: Suggestion: Hotkey to indent/unindent selection (closed enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/620#comment:1 ]
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14:10 Hyppolit svn: r8471 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8471
14:10 Hyppolit Add a menu option to show the current report
14:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/
14:13 Hyppolit #619: Multiple files open, editor switches between tabs by itself (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/619#comment:1 ]
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14:35 Hyppolit #619: Multiple files open, editor switches between tabs by itself (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/619#comment:1.2 ]
14:36 Hyppolit #617: Random crashes while editing (syntax highlighting suggestion) (assigned defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/617#comment:2.4 ]
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14:58 daxim I can't build padre anymore because of Wx-Perl-ProcessStream        http://scsys.co.uk:8001/34412
14:59 daxim do you recommend downgrading or how should I handle this?
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15:07 Sewi daxim: The requirement is 0.18 and this works for me (ubuntu), you should try an older version if possible.
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15:39 GabrielVieira If anyone have any Padre slides and wants to help garu to make my ( :P ) brazilian slides.. please send me to gabriel.vieira@gmail.com :)
15:40 Sewi GabrielVieira: Don't know if this helps, but there are some screenshots of different versions and things in the trac-wiki...
15:41 Getty i'm scared
15:41 Getty today i try to explain 2 perl-beginners the "reference problem"
15:41 Getty (in real)
15:41 GabrielVieira Sewi: Yeah.. helps! I gonna use them too :)
15:42 Sewi Getty: :-) Refs are post-it's which tell you where something is.
15:42 GabrielVieira Getty Sewi you both are invited to YAPC Brasil 2009 in Rio ;) Want better vacation?
15:42 Getty Sewi: dont forget that @ is a very rare concept in coding languages
15:42 Getty Sewi: and dont forget that strange stuff about % is a @ just different
15:43 Getty Sewi: its all scary for beginners ;)
15:43 * Sewi & (cooking)
15:43 * Alias is not invited? :(
15:43 Getty constructs like, you take an array with 3 parts, remove one, and use the rest as hash ;)
15:43 Getty Alias: NO!
15:43 GabrielVieira Alias: you too!!
15:43 Alias (Also, I'm quite sure I couldn't make it anyway)
15:43 Getty ;)
15:43 GabrielVieira You all invited :D
15:43 Getty GabrielVieria: timeplan?
15:44 GabrielVieira Getty: October 30 and 31 and November 1st
15:45 Getty 1000 EUR for the flight :-/
15:51 garu ... which is why I didn't say anything
15:51 garu but hey, we're learning the ropes on how to conduct a big event
15:52 garu so next year will rock
15:52 garu we'll make YAPC::EU jealous
15:52 garu and you'll all be able to schedule your flights in time :D
15:57 Getty if its in europe
15:57 Getty i would try to gather an own "carpool" system just for the event
15:58 Getty and probably some guys who not come can offer sleeping places for the travel
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19:17 sansbacon I can install Padre 0.47 on Ubuntu 9.04 32-bit but get this error on 64-bit
19:17 sansbacon DBI connect('/home/sansbacon/.padre/config.db','',...) failed: unable to open database file at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/ORLite/Migrate.pm line 87
19:18 szabgab sansbacon, pls check if '/home/sansbacon/.padre/   owned by root ?
19:19 sansbacon that worked -- thanks
19:20 sansbacon i also had a problem with wxWidgets errors if Xinerama was enabled -- i think there is already a bug post on that?
19:20 szabgab I don't know
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19:45 Sewi szabgab: Do you have a moment?
19:46 szabgab sorta
19:46 szabgab Sewi, ?
19:46 Sewi Yes, sorry.
19:47 Sewi About Plugin::PopularityContest... It currently sends the report as HTTP-POST request with key=value pairs for the statistic data.
19:47 szabgab yes
19:47 Sewi I think, it should be send to perlide.org. What requirements do you have for scripts there (CGI, mod_perl, ...)?
19:48 Sewi I could do the script, but I need to know how you want it, if it should put the data into a SQL DB, textfiles, etc.
19:48 szabgab cgi that can be loaded as mod_perl :-)
19:48 szabgab but why?
19:49 szabgab do we want to send more complex data there that needs a back-end?
19:49 szabgab why do we need a back-end script?
19:50 Sewi Currently there is a hash which holds key => number_of_times_used - pairs
19:51 Sewi In addition, some _key => version_info data is sent and I plan to send some config_option => value things (nothing critical, just things like which_start_mode, one_instance_mode, etc.)
19:51 Sewi Here is a sample: http://pastebin.ca/1583243
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19:54 szabgab Sewi, I think for this we need to have a bit more serious design and discussion than just adding some more data collection
19:54 szabgab for one, we promised not to collect other data from the user without his/her permission
19:55 szabgab So I think first we should write think over how we would like to get the agreement of the users and what kind of data are we planning to collect (and how to group them)
19:55 Sewi I updated the POD description of the Plugin listing what data is collected and what may be added, added many comments to the module itself and a note that every developer editing this module should add good comments to let every user understand what the module does.
19:56 szabgab e.g. Eclipse collects the data locally and then every time before sending it off it asks the user if it can send the date
19:56 szabgab data
19:56 Sewi atm the transmission part is done, tested (with my server) and commented out. We only need to change the URL to the final value and uncomment it, everything else is done (from the developing point of view).
19:57 szabgab so if a user has already enabled the plugin as she agreed to the data listed in the previous version, if she upgrades padre we will start to send new kinds of data from Padre
19:57 Sewi Personally, I'ld prefer to enable it once (given that it's disabled by default) and don't be distrubed by it again :-) I also added a menu option where the user could see his "current" report.
19:57 szabgab I don't think this is acceptablt
19:58 Sewi Yes, we should auto-disable this module if there is no manual activation before 0.48
19:58 szabgab I don't think this is acceptablt - meaning the automatic upgrade of the data stream
20:00 Sewi If we add other things in the future and the module is enabled (on 0.48 or later), we should auto-disable the module and ask the user once if he wants to re-enable it while showing him what we added.
20:00 szabgab I guess we need the plugin to be enabled always but it should not send data unless the user agrees to it, the first time it wants to send data, the user
20:01 szabgab can then decide to allow now/ allow always/ not allow
20:01 szabgab and maybe "later"
20:01 szabgab so there will be a popup before every sending unless the user marked "send always"
20:02 Sewi This seems to be the best way - everyone who enabled the module in the past is collecting data but it is destroyed at Padre's exit if he doesn't allow transmission before.
20:02 szabgab and if the data we collect changes we reset the flag
20:02 Sewi ...to "ask on every send". Sounds very good to me.
20:03 szabgab I am not sure I'd want to destroy the data on every send, it could be saved in a log file and analyzed locally
20:03 szabgab or sent later
20:03 szabgab even if the user did not want to send it when we asked to do it
20:04 Sewi atm it's just a Hash, the data is kept (and added) until Padre exists. If there is more then one transmission from one instance, the instace ID allowes us to use only the last one for statistical purposes.
20:04 szabgab and I think there could be categories of data and each catagory can be enabled/disabled separately
20:05 Sewi No problem, could be easy done.
20:05 szabgab so I think we first need to have a better description/design of this and discuss it among us, Alias also has his strong opinion on privacy
20:06 szabgab I think once I sent an e-mail to our maling list with sample data that Eclipse is sending
20:07 Sewi Maybe we could get it working on trunk asap so that developers could use it if they want and include it into following releases as soon as we're sure to have a good privacy concept.
20:07 * Sewi still needs to subscribe.
20:08 Sewi done
20:08 szabgab its in the archive somewhere
20:09 Sewi I think this is a very important module as it would show us what people use and where we need to inform them that things exist, they don't use.
20:10 Sewi http://mail.perlide.org/pipermail​/padre-dev/2009-June/001063.html
20:11 Sewi They're collecting much more than we
20:12 szabgab sure I agree that we need to collect a lot more data
20:13 szabgab I just want to make sure we know what we are doing
20:17 Sewi I'm not sure if collecting much more data (such as a real usage log) would be much better. It gives us more information, but would also slow-down things as the log must be added at many functions and it would be a bigger privacy issue.
20:18 Hyppolit #621: Did you know? Startup - notes (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/621 ]
20:19 szabgab that's why I'd like to have categories for the data
20:19 szabgab so one of them might be "menu options clicked"
20:20 szabgab another one might be "perl errors received"
20:21 Sewi "config summary" (with a good description stating that we won't use personal data)
20:21 szabgab "list of plugins",
20:21 szabgab "list of CPAN modules used in code"
20:22 Sewi this would be cool :-)
20:23 szabgab the point I was thinking about is that we can provide some extra service to registered people, based on the data they submit
20:23 szabgab and even charge money for this service
20:24 PerlJam szabgab: so ... I give you data (for free), you give me a service (for a fee)?
20:24 Sewi Until now, the module is build to report anonymous...
20:24 Sewi PerlJam: We could also make it like Microsoft... You pay for Padre-Download, pay for the right to start it, pay for transmitting the data and pay for services :-)
20:24 szabgab e.g. you get code analysis service
20:25 szabgab error types and frequency compared to other users
20:25 PerlJam "how does *your* code stand up to other padre users?"
20:26 szabgab there is clearly value in there that companies might pay for
20:26 PerlJam and just like keyword guessing and other such features, as you're typing your code, padre can notice patterns and suggest that 53% of padre users did it *this* way instead  :)
20:27 Sewi Sounds like selling Padre to Google :-)
20:27 PerlJam "It looks like you're doing OOP ... are you *sure* you don't want to be using Moose?"
20:27 szabgab "pleas pay $10 to bless your hash"
20:27 PerlJam "Your version of catalyst is 5.8, but you're still not using Moose-y features.  You may want to change that"
20:28 Sewi PerlJam: With auto-modification of the source :-)
20:29 PerlJam Sewi: that would be a useful thing from the Catalyst plugin.  If I could hit a keystroke and have it scour my source turning all my old controllers into Moose-based controllers and updating the Makefile.PL
20:29 szabgab PerlJam, open a ticket please
20:30 Sewi szabgab: The question is if we should wait until we got such a high level concept for popularity reports or use your ideas for a new module for registered users and keep pop con
20:31 Sewi anonymous and statistical only but be able to launch it soon.
20:32 szabgab have the concept soon so we can start collecting more data soon
20:32 szabgab soon = 1-2 weeks could be enough for this
20:34 Hyppolit #622: Catalyst Plugin feature (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/622 ]
20:34 Sewi PerlJam: Would you like to do ticket #622? :-)
20:34 Hyppolit #622: Catalyst Plugin feature (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/622 ]
20:35 PerlJam There are many things I would like to do ... and that's the problem.
20:35 PerlJam Why did Hyppolit repeat itself?
20:35 Sewi PerlJam: Same to me
20:36 Sewi He didn't, I wrote #622 and he replied. Same with #620
20:36 Hyppolit #622: Catalyst Plugin feature (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/622 ]
20:36 PerlJam oh, I see
20:36 Sewi Hey Hyppolit, I said #620 :-)
20:36 Hyppolit #620: Suggestion: Hotkey to indent/unindent selection (closed enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/620#comment:1 ]
20:36 Sewi thanks
20:38 PerlJam ah Sewi++, thanks for mentioning that ticket.  That was another feature I wanted but didn't know existed in padre.
20:38 PerlJam padre++ too
20:39 Sewi PerlJam: Same to  me, this is why I did #621
20:39 Hyppolit #621: Did you know? Startup - notes (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/621 ]
20:39 Hyppolit #623: list of plugins (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/623 ]
20:40 Sewi szabgab++; for 623
20:40 PerlJam Sewi: I think good, accessible documentation is a prerequisite for #621.  Is there a ticket for that?  :)
20:40 Hyppolit #621: Did you know? Startup - notes (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/621 ]
20:40 szabgab PerlJam, AFAIK there is
20:40 Sewi PerlJam: It's an alltime problem :-)
20:41 PerlJam one of these days I'm going to have to browse padre's tickets and see if there is any fruit hanging low enough within my time/knowledge/energy constraints.
20:42 szabgab PerlJam, you are a perl 6 hacker too, right ?
20:42 szabgab do you also know Parrot ?
20:42 PerlJam though if I worked on anything I think it would be the vi plugin by default.  Today I was using Padre and vi at the same time and I kept screwing up my source files in padre because I was doing vi-things without the vi plugin enabled (and some of the things I would do, the vi plugin can't yet)
20:43 szabgab those are areas that would be awewome to push forward in Padre
20:43 PerlJam szabgab: I've contributed code to both.
20:43 PerlJam But again, too much stuff, too little time.
20:43 szabgab yes I know that
20:46 PerlJam Hmm.  a NQP plugin that told you something wasn't implemented in NQP would be helpful though.  There are times I've done "standard perl 6 stuff" in my NQP actions file that didn't work because it wasn't implemented in NQP
20:47 Sewi szabgab: What would be the next step to continue with pop con?
20:48 szabgab PerlJam, that could be part of the Perl 6 plugin maybe
20:48 PerlJam yes, it probably should  NQP will always be a subset of Perl 6
20:49 szabgab Sewi, write down what we discussed
20:49 szabgab implement categories, with the most basic one including the current data
20:50 Sewi szabgab: will do. To wiki or mailing list?
20:50 szabgab - popup the first time Padre wants to send data ?
20:50 szabgab mailing list for discussion
20:50 Sewi ok
20:52 Sewi I copied our discussion and will write the summary for the list tomorrow.
20:55 Sewi good night everyone
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21:03 szabgab good night
21:08 * Sewi &
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22:25 kthakore hi
22:26 kthakore I think I made Padre crash ... is there a logging feature or something I can print out?
22:33 garu kthakore, if you have the svn version, you can try running ./dev.pl --die or ./dev.pl -d to run it in the command line debugger
22:34 kthakore ok
22:34 kthakore thanks
22:34 garu kthakore, but my advice would be to add some print statements to the source code
22:34 garu or ask here
22:34 kthakore awww ...
22:34 kthakore ok
22:34 garu maybe try to reproduce it
22:34 garu so we can too :)
22:43 kthakore I did
22:44 kthakore you have to install vi plugin with git plugin in v0.47
22:44 kthakore in windows
22:44 kthakore and enable git before vi
22:44 kthakore crash!
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