Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-10-22

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Time Nick Message
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00:33 SvenDowideit__ oh what a poo - some Alias guy writes Devel::Leak::Object, but its output goes to STDOUT
00:34 Alias Some guy called Sven probably has commit to fix that
00:35 SvenDowideit__ dammit, i should figure that out :)
00:35 SvenDowideit__ would it be my pause account name?
00:36 Alias Probably
00:36 Alias The email address version
00:36 Alias lowercase
00:36 SvenDowideit__ mmm
00:37 SvenDowideit__ there is a chance that i have no idea if i actually have an commit to svn.ali.as
00:38 Alias What should it be?
00:38 SvenDowideit__ i wish i knew
00:38 Alias You don't know your cpan id?
00:38 SvenDowideit__ sdowideit i think
00:39 * SvenDowideit__ is now formally lost in the maze that is the perl web experience
00:41 SvenDowideit__ ok, it is sdowideit, but when you say 'email address version' i plead ignorance
00:41 SvenDowideit__ though i'm guessing you mean
00:42 SvenDowideit__ sdowideit@cpan.org
00:42 SvenDowideit__ tinyauth tells me nope
00:43 SvenDowideit__ well, thats it. Alias i hereby ask if you would be so kind as to give me commit access to the super-repos :/
00:43 Alias sdowideit@cpan.org
00:43 Alias added
00:43 SvenDowideit__ mucho thanks :)
00:44 SvenDowideit__ so - is there a howto for it, or just commit to trunk and watch Alias make stuff happen?
00:46 SvenDowideit__ mmm, looking at the Changelog, you've beaten me to it
00:46 SvenDowideit__ but not published it to cpan?
00:47 Alias Possibly
00:48 Alias Or someone else did
00:48 SvenDowideit__ dcantrell
00:49 SvenDowideit__ i guess that begs the next q - how to trigger the next bits of the process (presumably to get you to upload)
00:51 Alias I run a script
00:52 Alias It does everything magically
00:52 Alias And spits out a URL, which I paste into CPAN Upload
00:52 SvenDowideit__ cool - though my question is about the bit before that
00:52 Alias You ask me to run the script :)
00:53 SvenDowideit__ ok :)
00:53 Alias Basic Process. 1. Make your changes 2. Updated Changes and $VERSION etc ready for release 3. Tell me to run the automation
00:53 SvenDowideit__ i guess i'll email dave? dcantrell
00:53 Alias Why?
00:54 SvenDowideit__ he's the one that has made the changes to the trunk
00:54 Alias Anyone can make changes to anything
00:54 Alias Look at the =head1 AUTHO
00:54 Alias That's who you bug
00:54 SvenDowideit__ but i presume he has some reason to not have gotten it uploaded?
00:54 Alias Not necesarily
00:54 Alias Maybe he got past his leak and didn't bug me enough to release :)
00:55 SvenDowideit__ grin
00:55 SvenDowideit__ =head1 AUTHOR
00:55 SvenDowideit__ Adam Kennedy <adamk@cpan.org>
00:55 SvenDowideit__ With some additional contributions from David Cantrell E<lt>david@cantrell.org.ukE<gt>
00:55 SvenDowideit__ some value of tada :)
00:56 Alias http://svn.ali.as/cpan/releases​/Devel-Leak-Object-1.00.tar.gz
00:56 SvenDowideit__ mmm
00:56 SvenDowideit__ where does 1.0 come from if svn trunk has 0.93?
00:57 Alias It doesn't
00:58 Alias The main reason I continue to do the actual releases most of the time is so I can give the module a quick once over and look for minor packaging stuff I want to change/fix
00:58 Alias And then the release automation enforces another dozen QA rules
00:58 SvenDowideit__ yup, i can grok that
00:59 Alias In this case, I updated the Makefile.PL to use M:I:DSL, updated the copyright and decided to switch to a prod version
00:59 SvenDowideit__ i'm just poking to see the list of things that i might see how to docco, so that n+1 can ask even fewer q's
01:03 SvenDowideit__ tie to feed the kids, bbl :)
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01:57 azawawi good morning :)
02:07 Hyppolit svn: r8847 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8847
02:07 Hyppolit [Padre] Fixed a t/00-compile.t error... im back :)
02:07 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
02:10 Hyppolit svn: r8848 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8848
02:10 Hyppolit [Padre] A small Perl tidy
02:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
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02:22 Hyppolit svn: r8849 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8849
02:22 Hyppolit [Padre] Removed redundant padre.ico from script folder
02:22 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/script/
02:33 Hyppolit svn: r8850 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8850
02:33 Hyppolit [Padre] padre.exe.bat is no longer created when installing Padre (nobody++)
02:33 Hyppolit [Padre] Moved padre.exe from script to bin
02:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/bin/ trunk/Padre/script/
02:35 Alias azawawi: heh, welcome back
02:36 Alias You know, I've noticed this really interesting effect
02:36 Alias Whenever there's one or two people committing like crazy, most other people that COULD be doing something go quieter
02:36 Alias As if they are just getting out the damned way
02:36 Hyppolit svn: r8851 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8851
02:36 Hyppolit [template.padre.padre.org] Added an article that mentioned Padre (chromatic++)
02:36 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
02:37 Alias Once those people start to burn out and go quiet, other people take it as a queue to step in and start doing stuff more
02:37 azawawi Alias: i've noticed that also
02:37 Alias As long as you and Sewi were burning through work, I've felt like I can work on other things (I'm currently trying to revolutionise Australian Politics)
02:38 Alias Once you dissapeared for a little bit, and just Sewi is doing the heavy commits, I've felt like I should move back in a bit
02:38 Alias Fortunately, now I don't have to :)
02:38 Alias I shall continue to fix Australian politics
02:38 azawawi i've been busy lately with crazy mysql multi-master installations at work...
02:39 azawawi replication...
02:39 Alias I'm horribly busy atm
02:39 Alias More so than in a long time
02:40 azawawi yeah IT is like this... sometimes you're free with nothing todo but research...
02:42 azawawi open source is really cool, you drop an initial idea and others if interested make it better
02:42 azawawi e.g. padre.c -> padre.exe
02:42 Alias ya
02:43 Alias BTw, I'm surprised how much easier that makes Padre to use
02:43 Alias I can associate stuff properly now, and so on
02:43 azawawi oh i have this on my todo list: A user called audreyt said, 'ah. well it'd help if, like other projects, the Help menu contains a "check for updates"'
02:43 Alias It's time to start examining server infrastructure
02:44 Alias mattp's university thesis project starts next week or something too
02:44 Alias He's going to build us a configuration mesh server
02:44 Alias So the HUMAN-subset of the config variables sync over multiple installs
02:44 Alias Plus we need to do the popularity contest server
02:45 azawawi cool
02:45 Alias Plus an update server... and plugin update server
02:45 Alias So I think it's really about time to focus on server infrastructure
02:46 azawawi yummy ... lots of tickets
02:48 azawawi textpad is really something to steal from
02:48 azawawi especially the huge-files-handling (chunked)
02:57 Hyppolit svn: r8852 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8852
02:57 Hyppolit [Padre] close button is always focused in about dialog
02:57 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
03:01 Hyppolit svn: r8853 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8853
03:01 Hyppolit [Padre] Added forgotten --desktop usage POD to padre
03:01 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/script/
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03:02 Hyppolit svn: r8854 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8854
03:02 Hyppolit [Padre] A quick Perl tidy
03:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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03:10 Hyppolit #703: Focus does not return to search dialog after error messages (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/703 ]
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03:26 ppant Good Morning
03:27 azawawi ppant: good morning
03:30 Alias hi
03:30 Alias btw, awesome channel size
03:30 Alias 56
03:30 Alias Well, 59
03:32 ppant Hi <azawawi>
03:33 ppant I was out for few weeks .. I want to take active participation in padre project
03:33 ppant How should I proceed?
03:34 azawawi ppant: do you have a commit bit?
03:36 azawawi ppant: one min please
03:37 azawawi ppant: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Howto
03:37 ppant I didn't got get exactly .. but I have Padre installation I think 0.45. I have source code with me and I can also run the padre through the dev.pl
03:38 azawawi ppant: try to commit a file
03:41 ppant Yes.. I am able to do that
03:41 azawawi ppant: then find a ticket that interests you at http://padre.perlide.org/trac/report/1
03:42 azawawi ppant: and try solving it.
03:43 ppant OK... will do that .. one more question.. shall I do svn update
03:43 ppant and have to install new version padre
03:44 azawawi ofcourse
03:44 azawawi always svn update
03:44 azawawi cpan . in Padre folder
03:45 azawawi to make sure you did not break anything
03:45 azawawi cpan . => perl Makefile.PL && dmake && dmake test && dmake install
03:46 ppant OK... thanks for info... will do accordingly and get back to you guys
03:46 azawawi cool. welcome to Padre :)
03:47 ppant :)
03:49 Alias ppant: I recommend the most recent ticket as a good starting one
03:49 Alias http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/703
03:49 Alias I only filed it because I don't have time to chase it
03:50 ppant Hi <Alias> I will look into it
03:50 Alias Thanks
03:51 ppant will set the environment to latest release and code and then start working on that.. will get back to you :-)
03:52 Alias Awesome
04:06 Hyppolit svn: r8855 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8855
04:06 Hyppolit [Padre] Padre should look more themed under XP/Vista
04:06 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/bin/
04:07 Hyppolit svn: r8856 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8856
04:07 Hyppolit [PadreLauncher] Added the same xp manifest file to be included when we have a true padre.exe that invokes perl DLLs
04:07 Hyppolit [PadreLauncher] instead of using wperl.exe
04:07 Hyppolit trunk/PadreLauncher/
04:15 Hyppolit svn: r8857 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8857
04:15 Hyppolit [Padre] Install wperl.exe.manifest to ${EXE_FILES}/bin to make Padre an xp/vista/win7 themed application
04:15 Hyppolit [Padre] i.e. more native look and feel for buttons, border, table headers, ..etc
04:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
04:17 Hyppolit svn: r8858 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8858
04:17 Hyppolit [Padre] Perl tidy
04:17 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
04:17 Hyppolit svn: r8859 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8859
04:17 Hyppolit [Padre] Updated Changes
04:17 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
04:27 azawawi Alias: ping
04:28 ppant This is the error while compiling the padre source "Install Locale::Msgfmt version 0.14 or higher to build from SVN at MakeFile.pl line 13. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 15" Can anybody help on this?
04:28 azawawi ppant: cpan Locale::Msgfmt
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04:32 azawawi Alias: "Splash image courtesy of Jerry Charlotte" seems wrong when we go debian (no ccnc). How about "Blue Butterfly on a green leaf" splash image is based on work by Jerry Charlotte (blackbutterfly)"
04:33 azawawi &
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04:39 ppant <azawawi> Done Thanks
04:40 Alias Aaaaand he's gone
04:40 Alias submersible: Welcome back
04:45 Hyppolit #49: Customisable path to perl (closed enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/49#comment:3 ]
04:46 ppant <azawawi> One more issue while running the dmake: "dmake dmake:  Error: -- `C:\Perl\libConfig.pm' not found, and can't be made"
05:12 Alias Do you have more than one Perl installed?
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05:46 Sewi Good morning
05:46 Alias Hi
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07:31 ppant <Alias>: I will check it.. I think yes
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07:43 rindolf Hi all.
07:44 rindolf When was the latest Padre release?
07:44 rindolf Was it announced on freshmeat.net already? (by me?)
07:47 rindolf Alias: here?
07:47 fg3_ joined #padre
07:47 rindolf Alias: how's life in the future?
07:47 Sewi rindolf: Hi, 13 Oct 2009
07:48 rindolf Sewi: ah.
07:48 rindolf OK, may be too late to announce now.
07:49 rindolf It was 9 days ago.
07:50 rindolf Are you still making a lot of progress with Padre hacking?
07:50 rindolf BTW , I voted for vim in szabgab's Perl IDE poll.
07:50 rindolf Which was naturally, my candid response.
07:50 rindolf Because that's what I am using mostly.
07:55 Sewi rindolf: Here is the answer: http://padre.perlide.org/trac​/browser/trunk/Padre/Changes
07:56 rindolf Sewi: I see.
07:56 rindolf Sewi: most of them are yours.
07:56 rindolf Is szabgab busy doing something else?
07:57 rindolf Like work-work stuff?
07:57 rindolf How about Alias and azawawi?
08:03 Sewi rindolf: I feel lonely :-)
08:04 rindolf Sewi: heh.
08:04 Sewi What about you? Don't want to write  a test, fix a ticket or something like this? :-)
08:04 rindolf Sewi: I can keep you company.
08:04 rindolf Sewi: I'm not too much into Padre.
08:04 Sewi me too
08:04 rindolf Sewi: because I don't really use it.
08:04 Sewi Why don't you use it?
08:05 rindolf Sewi: I still prefer gvim.
08:05 Sewi You know the Vi Plugin of Padre?
08:05 rindolf Sewi: there always was a problem with Padre that made me go back to vim.
08:05 rindolf Sewi: I do.
08:05 rindolf Sewi: but it's a Vi plugin and not a vim plugin.
08:05 rindolf Sort of like Emacs' viper.
08:06 rindolf Not good enough.
08:06 Sewi Oh, you're welcome to write a vim plugin :-)
08:06 rindolf Sewi: maybe I'll also write an Autocad plugin.
08:06 rindolf While I'm at it.
08:06 rindolf ;-)
08:07 rindolf I think Padre could use a World of Warcraft plugin.
08:07 Sewi Autocad for Padre would be cool.
08:07 Sewi I'll add you as the maintainer for Padre:.Plugin::Autocad, ok? :-)
08:07 rindolf Sewi: sure.
08:07 rindolf Sewi: expect it to be finished some time before the heat death of the universe.
08:08 * Sewi updates http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Plugins
08:08 rindolf Sewi: I should note that I'm now working on my own TeX alternative.
08:08 Sewi rindolf: This must be soon as hell is already frozen :-)
08:08 rindolf Sewi: but I'm starting really small.
08:08 rindolf Sewi: hell will be frozen by then - trust me.
08:09 Sewi Hell must already be frozen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Freezes_Over
08:10 rindolf Is this the origin of this quote?
08:10 rindolf Or is it "a cold day in hell?"
08:10 Sewi Afaik this is the explanation why hell must be frozen. :-)
08:11 rindolf Sewi: Apple shipped a 5-button mouse, and hell did not freeze over yet.
08:12 rindolf Maybe the Devil is waiting for an Autocad plugin for Padre.
08:12 rindolf I remember that network analysis tool called Satan.
08:12 rindolf By the future postfix guy and someone else who lost his job due to it.
08:12 Sewi rindolf: Yeah, but it was a bug - they planned that all 5 buttons should be soldered to the same bit but someone at the factory mixed it up with a logitech mouse where all 5 buttons should have different functions :-)
08:13 rindolf There was an article about him in "Time magazine"
08:13 rindolf Sewi: hehehehe
08:13 rindolf Sewi: a few buttons all doing the same thing.
08:14 rindolf Reminds me of the evilness (satanness?) that is Sun keyboards.
08:14 rindolf Though some people like them.
08:14 rindolf But I'm too used to PC keyboards.
08:14 rindolf Because I started from the PC XT 8088
08:14 rindolf My current keyboard took some time getting used to.
08:15 rindolf It's a logitech one.
08:15 rindolf We planned to pay 99 ILS for it, but it was on sale for 79 ILS.
08:15 rindolf They could have charged us more. :-)
08:15 rindolf But it's a good keyboard all in all.
08:15 rindolf With some multimedia keys.
08:16 * rindolf is listening to David Arkenstone - Below The Ocean -- The Spirit Of Atlantis
08:16 rindolf Sewi: do you know David Arkenstone? He seems to be relatively unknown?
08:16 rindolf Sewi: do you know David Arkenstone? He seems to be relatively unknown.
08:17 Sewi Sorry, you're asking the wrong person, I usually don't know the artists or titles of the songs I hear :-)
08:18 rindolf Sewi: ah.
08:18 rindolf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh6EN4wIxJ8 - here's a performance I found on YouTube.
08:18 rindolf Sewi: don't you have music on the computer?
08:19 rindolf Sewi: or do you only listen to radio?
08:19 Sewi I have, but I prefer working without most of the time.
08:19 rindolf Sewi: ah.
08:19 rindolf Sewi: I like to listen to music when I work.
08:20 rindolf Or some skits.
08:20 Sewi I enjoy the time when my kiddies are sleeping - we don't have silence when they're awake :-) But I also enjoy them when they're awake
08:22 rindolf Sewi: ah.
08:22 rindolf Sewi: I don't have children.
08:23 rindolf Sewi: and I don't really like silence.
08:23 rindolf Well, at night - yes.
08:23 rindolf But not usually when I sit next to the computer.
08:23 rindolf Sewi: how old are your children?
08:23 Sewi 1 and 10.
08:23 rindolf That's a pretty good performance, but bad quality.
08:23 rindolf Sewi: I see.
08:24 rindolf Sewi: what does the 10 y.o. do?
08:25 Sewi Go to school, she's handicaped, doesn't speak and her brain is at the age of 2 or 3...
08:25 rindolf Sewi: wow. Sorry to hear that.
08:25 rindolf Sewi: is it a special school?
08:25 rindolf handicapped.
08:26 rindolf We had another discussion about netiquette on Perl-IL.
08:26 Sewi Yes, she is, there is nothing a normal school could do for her.
08:27 rindolf After I told someone to send me a message again after a seriously bad top-posting email.
08:27 rindolf Top-posting is the root of all evil.
08:27 rindolf Sewi: I see.
08:28 Sewi How do we get you to prefer Padre?
08:28 rindolf Sewi: don't know.
08:28 rindolf Sewi: maybe a really good vim-like plugin.
08:29 rindolf Sewi: I even found Yzis which is a vim clone that's supposed to be close to version 1.0 lacking.B
08:31 rindolf Because its :-command line was not editable properly.
08:31 rindolf I could note move left and right with the cursor.
08:31 rindolf Doesn't seem very 1.0 version to me.
08:31 rindolf I wonder how orzel can find it useful for hacking.
08:31 rindolf If he can.
08:31 Sewi Maybe someone mixed up 0.01 and 1.00 :-)
08:32 rindolf Sewi: na.
08:32 rindolf Sewi: I'm eating Shawarma today.
08:32 rindolf Sewi: I think i'll eat an apple now.
08:32 rindolf I'm hungry and tired.
08:32 rindolf Maybe I should take a walk.
08:36 rindolf I'm now working on http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ 's HACKING.txt.
08:36 rindolf In gvim. :-)
08:36 rindolf It's written using AsciiDoc.
08:37 rindolf And I translate it to XHTML and DocBook.
08:37 rindolf I can translate the DocBook to a man page.
08:37 rindolf I'd like to create a more decent man page than the token one that there is now that was written to satisfy the Debian people.
08:39 Sewi Would you like to add some comments to Padre actions? Padre::Action::*.pm and Padre::Wx::Menu::*.pm
08:43 waxhead joined #padre
08:45 rindolf Sewi: I can try.
08:45 rindolf Sewi: can't really promise anything.
08:45 rindolf OK, I'm going for a walk.
08:46 rindolf Maybe I'll get myself something to eat, first?
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09:11 Sewi Is there a way to find out what type of reference was blessed?
09:12 Sewi ref() only tells what was blessed on it.
09:24 rindolf Sewi: reftype
09:24 rindolf Sewi: in Scalar::Util
09:25 rindolf Sewi: lots of people ask this - I may have put it on the perlfaq.
09:25 Sewi thanks
09:26 rindolf Not, perlfaq - but the Freenode #perl FAQ.
09:26 rindolf Let me see.
09:27 rindolf Sewi: no, it's not.
09:27 rindolf I'll add it there.
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09:47 rindolf Sewi: http://perl.net.au/wiki/Freenode_Sharp_Perl_FA​Q#How_can_I_determine_the_type_of_a_reference_.28array.2C_hash.2C_scalar.2C_etc..29.3F - thanks!
09:48 rindolf OK. Shawarma Time soon.
09:48 rindolf It's almost 12:00 O'Clock.
09:55 waxhead joined #padre
09:59 rindolf OK. Shawarma.
09:59 rindolf 11:59:08
10:01 Sewi Get one for me, too, please :-)
10:08 Alias rindolf: I've been around
10:08 Alias Mostly focused on winning various gov.au hacking competitions
10:09 Alias The government has seen the 'data wants to be free' light
10:09 Alias And there's something of a renaissance underway atm
10:40 rindolf Alias: interesting.
10:40 rindolf Sounds cool.
10:40 rindolf Alias: you mean like open gov data?
10:40 rindolf Alias: with the ability to create mash-ups etc.?
10:41 rindolf Wish we had something similar in Israel.
10:41 rindolf But at the moment, several Israeli government sites are MSIE-only.
10:41 rindolf "To be adapted on the next rewrite."
10:47 Sewi rindolf: "next" meaning "next" or "when_hell_will_freeze_over_the_next_time" :-)
10:49 rindolf Sewi: hard to tell.
10:49 rindolf Sewi: closer to the second probably.
10:49 rindolf I don't understand why a rewrite is necessary.
10:49 rindolf But maybe the internals suck.
10:49 rindolf Sometimes looking at the JaveScript code of this site is a rude awakening.
10:49 rindolf Lots of typos, bugs, etc.
10:50 rindolf Scary to think what is on the server.
10:50 Sewi Yeah, but it's official :-)
10:50 rindolf I switched banks to a bank whose site supported Firefox.
10:50 rindolf They also told me they were very aware of standards compliance (and probably security)
10:51 Sewi I don't know any German bank who tries to enforce IE.
10:51 rindolf Designing for a web is hard.
10:51 rindolf Someone told me it is harder than Linux kernel hacking.
10:51 rindolf Well, Linux kernel drivers' development.
10:51 rindolf He did both.
10:52 rindolf Sewi: well, FF is pretty popular in Germany.
10:52 rindolf I know some people on Windows who use it in Israel too.
10:52 rindolf I think there were 300K Firefox downloads in 24 hours in Israel.
10:52 rindolf Not too bad.
10:52 rindolf And Iran was one of the top 10. :-D
10:52 rindolf Top 10 countries that is.
10:53 Sewi It might be time for a virus replacing iexplore.exe by (firefox|opera|chrome)[rand]."-installer.exe" :-)
10:53 rindolf Sewi: heh.
10:53 rindolf Sewi: did you read ESR's The Ultimate Worm?
10:53 rindolf Or something like that.
10:54 rindolf http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/final-virus.html
10:55 rindolf Not that Linux didn't have its share of worms too.
10:55 rindolf There's now a WordPress worm.
10:55 Alias And here I was about to install WordPress on my dreamhost box
10:56 rindolf And people are urging me to install WordPress on www.iglu.org.il instead of MovableType or whatever.
10:56 rindolf Alias: the latest version is not affected.
10:56 rindolf But the WP code is reportedly very bad.
10:56 rindolf Who knows how many bugs there will be in the future.
10:57 Alias It's PHP right?
10:58 rindolf I still recall that MS-SQL worm exploiting an old vulnerability that affected something like 5,000 nodes and still caused a lot of slowdown.
10:58 rindolf Alias: yes, WordPress is PHP.
10:58 Alias Then I'm sure the bugs will be somewhat endemic
10:59 rindolf Alias: and it's code that is especially poorly written.
10:59 Alias I'm sure
10:59 Alias PHP generally is
10:59 Alias Weirdly, so was Twiki
11:00 Alias Which was the Perl application most closely written like a PHP app
11:00 rindolf Alias: when I had to write PHP code (a mail processing framework - don't ask) then thinking about how to do things the safest way slowed me down considerably.
11:00 rindolf Alias: what about MSA?
11:00 rindolf Matt's Scripts Archive?
11:00 Alias That was just ordinarily crap and small
11:00 Alias Twiki is large, popular, pretty, and crap
11:00 Alias Like most successful PHP apps
11:01 rindolf YaBB is also pretty horrid.
11:02 rindolf What's the name of that TWiki-fork?
11:02 Alias FOSWiki
11:02 Alias We just deployed it at work
11:02 rindolf Alias: ah.
11:03 rindolf Kwiki supposedly had beautiful code but a very poor syntax.
11:03 rindolf And I think its parser was very hacky.
11:03 Alias It had code that was so "smart" that it was basically impossible to understand
11:03 rindolf Alias: heh.
11:03 rindolf Alias: yes , I'm familiar with this.
11:03 Alias And it wasn't "Kwik" to set up any more, once it reached that point
11:04 rindolf That's why I've been trying to adopt some KISS principles to my code.
11:04 rindolf Sometimes do something slightly less elegantly so people (including me ) will understand it in the future.
11:06 ppant joined #padre
11:14 Alias rindolf: Welcome to the fourth phase
11:23 Sewi Alias: Thank you for writing the same like me :-)
11:26 rindolf Alias: fourth phase of what?
11:26 rindolf Alias: of being a programmer/hacker?
11:50 Alias rindolf: Phase one, newbieness
11:51 Alias rindolf: Phase two, can churn out code but fairly ordinary. Looking back 3 months, you think you used to suck
11:51 kentnl_ joined #padre
11:52 Alias rindolf: Phase three, awesome coder, really tight code, tendency to golf, use every neato trick in the book
11:52 Alias rindolf: Phase four, you code starts to get simpler, and your higher level design is more elegant
11:52 Alias your
11:53 rindolf Alias: OK.
11:53 daxim also, you hatessoftware
11:53 Alias rindolf: Phase five, you realise that the actual lines of code don't actually matter much at all, and it's the economics and team dynamics that matter
11:53 rindolf I think there were many Perl idioms that I always consciously refrained from using.
11:56 rindolf Alias: Phase Six: you're in management.
11:57 Alias I'm not sure about that yet :)
11:59 rindolf Alias: I'm very interested in software management.
11:59 rindolf Not UML/etc. "software engineering" but the practical, down-to-earth stuff.
12:00 rindolf And it helped me even as a mostly solitary FOSS developer.
12:54 PerlJam joined #padre
13:01 zuismanm joined #padre
13:04 kthakore joined #padre
13:06 rindolf Hi kthakore
13:06 kthakore rindolf: hi
13:07 rindolf kthakore: what's up?
13:10 szabgab_mib joined #padre
13:10 szabgab_mib just looking around
13:15 rindolf szabgab_mib: if I /join this channel with the nick "szabgab_mit" will I also get ops?
13:15 rindolf Or is there some kind of authentication?
13:17 szabgab_mib you will get ops and we will never trust you any more
13:19 szabgab_mib ultraedit suddenly jumped ahead in the poll
13:20 szabgab_mib and this link is interesting: http://wiki.dandascalescu.com/re​views/software/komodo_vs_eclipse
13:22 rindolf szabgab_mib: I didn't intend to really do that (malevolently), just wanted to see if there's a possible security breach.
13:22 rindolf szabgab_mib: s/see/verify/
13:24 kthakore szabgab_mib: where is the poll again?
13:24 szabgab_mib and now you will spam 5 mailing lists about how the padre irc channel has a security breach and people will remember the word padre and security breach while if you have OP on this IRC channel the only extra thing you can do is change the topic
13:25 szabgab_mib http://bit.ly/2V8Ltz
13:25 kthakore szabgab_mib: *g* ... the internet is like that
13:26 kthakore never even heard of Ultra edit
13:26 Sewi szabgab_mib: What about a chmod on http://perlide.org/irclogs/%23padre/* ? It still shows Forbidden :-(
13:26 szabgab_mib someone broke Hyppolit, as it was its job to chmod
13:27 szabgab_mib but I'll do that when I get home
13:28 sjn szabgab_mib: nice idea with the questionnaire
13:28 szabgab_mib btw I think the biggest thing Padre needs now is the built-in debugger
13:28 szabgab_mib sjn: thanks, have you asked the people in your PM group and in your company to do it?
13:28 sjn nope, but I will. :)
13:30 rindolf kthakore: I did.
13:30 szabgab_mib having more diverse people might help in getting better results
13:30 rindolf kthakore: it was pretty bad on a laptop with a broken keyboard.
13:30 rindolf kthakore: don't know about a desktop machine.
13:30 szabgab_mib but ultimately we need the perl survey
13:31 rindolf kthakore: UE is shareware.
13:33 sjn szabgab_mib: http://bit.ly/perleditorpoll
13:35 CromeDome joined #padre
13:36 szabgab_mib oh, I did not think I can edit that :-)
13:37 szabgab_mib http://ianskerrett.wordpress.com​/2006/01/11/jboss-poll-on-ides/
13:44 Sewi rindolf: just started playing music, too :-)
13:44 rindolf Sewi: ah, OK.
13:44 rindolf Sewi: nice.
14:11 Alias szabgab: UE is rather popular
14:11 Alias I still use it from time to time
14:12 Sewi How to add a Wx shortcut without adding a menu option?
14:12 szabgab_mib yeah, but I am not sure how to explain when it jumped 50 votes in an hour...
14:13 Sewi I'ld like to fix #641 but don't know how to catch ESC without adding a menu option for it.
14:13 Hyppolit #641: Escape doesn't search or search/replace dialog when focused on editor (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/641 ]
14:13 Alias Word spread around a company of something that uses it?
14:13 Alias Do you get ip addresses?
14:14 szabgab_mib nope
14:14 szabgab_mib just a count of votes, not even number of people or which votes were made by the same person
14:14 Haarg joined #padre
14:14 szabgab_mib I might get more if I pay 200 USD but I won't
14:15 szabgab_mib the question will be what are we going to do with the results, beside me blogging about it?
14:16 szabgab_mib shall we publish it on perlide.org ?
14:17 Alias It's interesting
14:17 Alias Even if we don't use it
14:17 Alias It establishes the groups of people we need to try to recruit
14:17 szabgab_mib and what about http://www.perlmonks.org/?nod​e=Perl%20Development%20Tools ?
14:18 szabgab_mib oh and I am happy to hear that Strawberry professional is due in January
14:18 szabgab_mib I will try to put together a CD with that and stuff for Linux for FOSDEM to hand out
14:18 szabgab_mib which is in February
14:19 Alias It's just a gut feel atm :)
14:20 Alias But Padre is feeling like it will be mature in time
14:20 Alias And we'll have Imager, BioPerl, probably SDL, and so on
14:20 Alias So I think it's time
14:20 szabgab_mib someone should really put time an energy in the debugger
14:20 szabgab_mib have you tried PDL ?
14:21 Alias Nope
14:21 szabgab_mib please do so
14:21 * PerlJam bets it works just fine
14:21 Alias But I plan to start by rolling in anything significant that builds and see how far we get
14:22 PerlJam (I think I tried PDL right after I tried POE, but I'm not sure)
14:22 PerlJam PDL needs f77 IIRC
14:22 * Alias tries now
14:22 Alias oh right
14:22 Alias We don't include the fotran frontend to gcc
14:23 szabgab_mib actually I am quite surprised that Padre got 80 votes already
14:23 Alias Me too, tbh
14:23 Alias But all that hype effort is paying off
14:23 Alias We need to get the metrics server running
14:27 szabgab_mib I think Padre is skewed in the poll, as this is a poll for most editors it only counts a small percentage of the total user base but for Padre it show all the users :-)
14:28 Sewi I hope we have more than 80 users using Padre regulary :-)
14:28 szabgab_mib and all the people who just want to be nice to us :-)
14:28 szabgab_mib 81 already ...
14:28 Sewi Would it be possible to get Padre in the Perl Ad Server?
14:29 dapatrick joined #padre
14:29 szabgab_mib you will have to talk with the guy running it
14:30 Alias Aren't we already on it
14:30 Alias I hope that putting Padre into the default Strawberry Pro install will boost our numbers enormously
14:30 Alias With a little luck we can scoop up all the Notepad++ and other windows editor people
14:30 szabgab_mib http://pcas.szabgab.com/ads.yml in several languages
14:31 szabgab_mib Alias: I am quite sure it will
14:32 szabgab_mib has anyone contacted you regarding a press release for the next release of Strawberry Perl ?
14:33 Sewi szabgab_mib: Maybe you could talk to him and make him add "Padre: Die Entwicklungsumgebung mit 100% Perl-Source" for Germany :-)
14:33 szabgab_mib rindolf: btw I think you can still announce the most recent Padre of Freshmeat, use my blog post as a base
14:33 * szabgab_mib is talking to himself
14:34 szabgab_mib will do it in the evening when I am next to my machine
14:34 Sewi :-)
14:36 kentnl_ joined #padre
14:43 Alias szabgab_mib: "Contacted me?" :)
14:43 Alias No, I just do my own new front page
14:43 Alias I'll do some promotion in the BioPerl community this time around
14:43 Alias But that's the only significant thing
14:44 szabgab_mib but are you ok if I am trying to get some more publicity for it ?
14:44 Alias Of course
14:44 Alias Roll on the hype machine
14:44 szabgab_mib will try to do so
14:45 szabgab_mib a small one :-)
15:04 rindolf szabgab_mib: OK.
15:04 kaare joined #padre
15:16 szabgab_mib CSJewell: ping
15:35 jq joined #padre
15:39 fg3_ joined #padre
15:46 kentnl_ joined #padre
15:55 daxim joined #padre
15:57 CSJewell pong.
15:58 CSJewell szabgab_mib: ^^
16:01 CSJewell too tired to think - will be back up in 30 minutes.
16:03 CSJewell I have to admit, I had to select Notepad++ on the poll - I don't use Padre yet. (Once I get X working in my FreeBSD VM, I will - but I've got too much churn in my Strawberry installations to do it.  Speaking of which, if you guys want a Padre Standalone, it's going to have to wait until 3-5 days after the Strawberry release.
16:04 vmbrasseur joined #padre
16:09 szabgab_mib CSJewell: no thinking needed, I just wanted to ask if anyone contacted you for publicity of the Strawberry release
16:09 szabgab_mib I gave the name of the two of you and Alias did not get any inquery
16:15 CSJewell Neither have I.
16:16 CSJewell (unless it's within the past 6 hours.)
16:17 * szabgab_mib going home  &
18:53 agn joined #padre
20:30 rindolf joined #padre
20:30 rindolf Hi all.
20:30 rindolf Is Alias here?
20:30 rindolf Oh, he's away.
20:33 Hyppolit svn: r8860 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8860
20:33 Hyppolit Add an option to automatically update the loaded session
20:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
20:34 Hyppolit svn: r8861 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8861
20:34 Hyppolit Store the autosave-session-flag
20:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
20:35 Sewi The day shouldn't go without at least one commit :-)
20:35 lichtkind joined #padre
20:36 Sewi Hi lichtkind, what is necessary to get you on Padre?
20:36 lichtkind Sewi: just tell a lie :)
20:37 lichtkind Sewi: this time i just want to chek out if we get a editors table on perlide.org
20:37 szabgab Sewi, he is already on #padre ;-)
20:37 lichtkind szabgab: not for long
20:37 lichtkind szabgab: the guy who maintaines the table on perlmonks don't react
20:38 szabgab lichtkind, I should talk to the author of that page first but I am quite busy with $work now
20:38 lichtkind so i recommend to make it on püerlide
20:38 Sewi lichtkind: The new Padre 0.49 which will be released next week will include all features from Visual Studio and also those planned for Visual Studio 2020. The Vi mode does a better Vi emulation than Vi itself and there are Plugins to emulate every editor on earth plus some Ancient from the Pegasus galaxy.
20:38 szabgab Sewi, are you aware that lichtkind has his own Perl Editor ?
20:38 lichtkind szabgab: thats the reason hes telling this :)
20:39 szabgab he wrote and maintains Kephra
20:39 Sewi szabgab: I know, but he asked for some lies to start using Padre :-)
20:39 lichtkind szabgab: if you have better connection to the author fine
20:39 szabgab oh, I did not know there were lies
20:40 Sewi lichtkind: I think he knows him _very_ good :-)
20:40 lichtkind Sewi: his other half of the brain?
20:40 Sewi lichtkind: No, no, that half maintains the perl ad server
20:41 lichtkind i know
20:41 Sewi szabgab: Kephra is a medicine my daughter got... strong stuff but didn't help her anyway. I won't of it as an editor :-)
20:42 lichtkind Sewi: padre reminds me still on child molesting preacher :)
20:42 lichtkind but enough i speak about the author of http://www.perlmonks.org/?nod​e=Perl%20Development%20Tools
20:42 lichtkind szabgab: is that the guy you know?
20:44 lichtkind i just want to have this table more up to date
20:44 lichtkind or that several people can edit them
20:44 lichtkind because different people know different subsets of editors
20:44 Sewi lichtkind: It really needs some updates...
20:45 lichtkind except me :)
20:46 lichtkind my point was to copy it and store as wiki or plain HTML on perlide.org
20:46 szabgab we won't have a wiki on perlide.org an time soon but we might have an html file
20:46 szabgab maybe even generated from some text files
20:46 lichtkind allright
20:46 lichtkind good
20:47 szabgab I'll ring you up when and if we are moving it
20:49 lichtkind thanks
20:49 lichtkind Sewi: now i can leave
20:50 lichtkind oh and by the way
20:50 lichtkind i was writing some stuff in the wx Wiki
20:50 lichtkind anybody here to help there?
20:51 lichtkind i almost can hear the silence
20:52 szabgab you seem to be doing quite well editing wikis :-)
20:52 lichtkind szabgab: you was in my talk at lissabon?
20:52 szabgab nope
20:52 lichtkind szabgab: so how you know? :)
20:52 szabgab I was most likely on the hallway track
20:53 lichtkind haha
20:54 nuba lichtkind> Sewi: padre reminds me still on child molesting preacher :)
20:54 nuba thats true for me, we call 'preacher' padre in brazil
20:55 lichtkind szabgab: yes i did a lot of stuff mostly in german wikipedia, p-c.de wiki and perfoundation wiki but yesterday released kephra 0.4.1.10 so i have a lot to do
20:55 lichtkind nuba: yes that was no bad mouthing but my hones feeling
20:55 nuba and me being an anti-religious person, i can't think of anything positive to associate with 'padre'
20:56 lichtkind nuba: same with me
20:56 lichtkind nuba: but on flipside kepher is used by lot of satanists
20:56 nuba LOL
20:56 lichtkind kepher.net is url of an split of the church of satan
20:56 Sewi Let's just hand out numbers to programs instead of names :-)
20:56 szabgab 42
20:57 Sewi szabgab++
20:57 szabgab svn mv Padre.pm 42.pm
20:57 szabgab err, wrong window
20:57 Sewi lol
20:57 Sewi Kepher will be 666? :-)
20:57 nuba actually each program is a number in binary... with a good number of digits :)
20:58 lichtkind Sewi: thats already vivivi (read as roman digits)
20:59 lichtkind Sewi: i have an different joke, kephra has similiar meaning of holy ghost, padre peans father
20:59 lichtkind so the true editor representing the sun still will come :)
20:59 * Sewi adds "beautify SessionSave.pm" on the "urgent TODO list"
21:00 lichtkind Sewi: what you mean by session save?
21:00 szabgab Eclipse?
21:00 szabgab "When the Sun is gone"?  made by IBM ?
21:00 szabgab really
21:00 Sewi lichtkind: One of Padre's dialogs does things which shouldn't be done by a dialog...
21:01 lichtkind Sewi: could you be more specific?
21:02 Sewi lichtkind: Instead of a five minute job for getting at least one thing into Padre today... but now I'm rewriting some functions to make them useful at all :-(
21:02 nuba "Benevolence", the editor you won associate with anything evil.
21:02 nuba wont*
21:02 Sewi Datapoint was straight through... their editor is called "edit" :-)
21:03 Sewi But this is technology older than me :-)
21:05 lichtkind you mean edit.com which was a line based editor?
21:05 rindolf Good night all.
21:05 lichtkind good nicht
21:05 lichtkind night
21:05 Sewi lichtkind: No, I mean the "edit" used on Datapoint DOS which is much older than MS-DOS
21:06 Sewi rindolf: night
21:06 rindolf Sewi: good night.
21:06 rindolf I'm busted.
21:06 lichtkind Sewi: i think thats the edit.com i speak of because .com was the old format predating dos
21:07 Sewi lichtkind: But you're already on PC hardware :-)
21:07 * Sewi will finish the rest of the function tomorrow.
21:08 lichtkind Sewi: not yet, still using software interrups :)
21:08 Sewi gn @ all
21:08 lichtkind sleep well
21:09 lichtkind its fun here :)
21:09 lichtkind even if you all du evil :)
21:09 szabgab the center of evil is vi
21:09 lichtkind no actual vi did many things rigth, i admire vi for what it is
21:10 lichtkind evil its just because it forces you to use it the one true way
21:13 Sewi joe & mcedit :-)
21:13 lichtkind Sewi: just editors so what? :)
21:13 * Sewi &
21:17 szabgab night &
21:18 lichtkind gnight
21:18 lichtkind nuba: so your an athiest :)
21:21 nuba not, i'm anti-religious
21:21 nuba (i suppose you meant atheist)
21:23 lichtkind nuba: no thats my question because thats 2 completaly different things
21:25 nuba please elaborate
21:25 lichtkind nuba: a theos - no god, religion is just a bunch of guys who claim to have a clue about god
21:25 lichtkind nuba: atheism is the believe that there is no god for shure
21:26 lichtkind but most spiritual people believe in god but dislike religion
21:26 lichtkind or a least are very tolerant about it
21:28 lichtkind with dislike i mean there not much actively enganged, or not dogmatic about it
21:28 lichtkind thats the short version :)
21:28 nuba lichtkind: i have a strong dislike and distrust for institutions in general, and i think organized religions have caused more harm than good to humanity. thats whay you call the "bunch of guys".
21:28 nuba what*
21:29 lichtkind nuba: i believe your right
21:29 nuba I dont have any problem with people choosing whatever belief system they feel its good for them
21:29 lichtkind nuba: but that doesn't says anything about god :)
21:29 nuba correct
21:30 lichtkind nuba: to me belief is absense of fear which is necesary to comprehend things deeper
21:30 lichtkind by that definition religios fanatics dont have believe :)
21:31 lichtkind it just the old labeling game
21:31 nuba personally i think there may be a creator, or god, or gods, but then, if it exists, i think they wouldn't care about our mundane questions
21:31 lichtkind but true insight comes from own recognition
21:31 lichtkind nuba: yes but not for the reasons you might think :)
21:32 lichtkind nothing can substitue own direct comprehention
21:32 nuba so im more into agnosticism: if there is anything "on the other side", or "beyond our human experience", its Unknowable, and that doesn't bother me.
21:33 lichtkind thatswhy wanting somebody believe something is counterproductive
21:33 lichtkind i think god feels like home, like most common thing inside
21:33 lichtkind people just dont assoziate it with that term
21:34 nuba yeah, but that won't help spin a religion
21:34 lichtkind nuba: beyond your experience are just the parts of you where you cant reach yet :)
21:35 lichtkind thats a question of evolution :)
21:35 nuba you need somethinig shared in the experience, you need the hierarchy (so you can leverage from being a religious authority) and best of all: some other groups you can oppose to: nothing unites people more than having a common enemy
21:36 lichtkind yeah the doctrines bush worked with :)
21:37 lichtkind i think that won't work with sane people :)
21:37 nuba check this out: http://blip.tv/file/2204956/
21:37 nuba lichtkind: thats addressed in this lecture ^ ^
21:38 nuba you only need one schizotypal religious type to act as a catalyst to the sane people
21:39 nuba thats the shaman, the pajem, the padre
21:39 szabgab err
21:39 szabgab could you take this off channel please?
21:39 nuba they get "things" going
21:40 nuba szabgab: ok, sorry, we got carried away
21:40 szabgab thank you
21:41 SvenDowideit joined #padre
21:52 patspam joined #padre
23:13 kthakore joined #padre
23:47 nuba i get this error when trying to run padre:
23:47 nuba DBI connect('/home/nuba/.padre/config.db','',...) failed: unable to open database file at /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/ORLite/Migrate.pm line 87
23:48 nuba and i haven't seen anything similar mentioned in http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download, is this common?
23:50 nuba also, nothing turns out while googling
23:51 nuba if anyone have pointers, they'd be greatly appreciated! :)

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