Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-10-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:16 teejay joined #padre
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08:15 Sewi joined #padre
08:15 Sewi good morning
09:34 charsbar joined #padre
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11:36 fayland joined #padre
14:02 szabgab joined #padre
16:40 Sewi Hyppolit?
16:40 Hyppolit Hyppolit is a bot currently running version 0.05
16:40 Hyppolit My master is szabgab.
16:40 Sewi Hyppolit: At least you are talking here.
16:41 Sewi Good to know
17:42 rindolf joined #padre
17:43 rindolf Hi all.
17:43 Sewi Hi rindolf
17:43 rindolf Sewi: hi.
17:44 rindolf Sewi: what's up?
17:44 Sewi nothing, this is the problem.
17:44 rindolf Sewi: happy after-Shabbath.
17:44 rindolf Sewi: ah.
17:44 rindolf Sewi: I wrote a blog post.
17:44 rindolf Well, it was kinda an epo filler.
17:44 Sewi The channel has been dead today, noone writing, noone asking questions, no commits :-(
17:45 rindolf Sewi: ah, OK.
17:45 rindolf I'm looking for szabgab
17:45 Sewi 16:02-> szabgab hat den Raum padre betreten.
17:45 * szabgab waves
17:46 rindolf szabgab: hello.
17:46 rindolf szabgab: what's up?
17:46 Sewi Nearly four hours ago and until you joined, all that happend was a little chat between Hyppolit and me :-(
17:46 szabgab I saw that
17:47 szabgab I was in the north on some outdoor trip with the kidz
17:47 rindolf Sewi: bot-talk?
17:47 Sewi szabgab: I was unsure if my IRC client lost the connection :-)
17:47 rindolf szabgab: that's great.
17:47 szabgab there are ups and downs
17:47 rindolf szabgab: did you see what Ovid wrote about Perl Training Australia?
17:47 rindolf On his use.perl.org blog.
17:47 szabgab rindolf, did you see what I answered ?
17:48 rindolf szabgab: saw what?
17:48 rindolf szabgab: and answered to what?
17:48 rindolf We seem to be disconnected.
17:48 rindolf Either that or you're a psychic.
17:49 szabgab to ovid
17:49 szabgab answered to Ovid
17:49 rindolf szabgab: ah, no, I didn't.
17:49 rindolf Haven't visited the page yet - only the entry in my web-feed aggregator.
17:49 rindolf Let me see.
17:50 szabgab lovely, Firfox crashed
17:50 szabgab Sewi, have you seen the "Anna boten" video on youtube ?
17:51 Sewi no
17:51 szabgab search for it
17:53 Sewi IRCish
17:53 rindolf szabgab: are you using FlashBlock or something?
17:53 szabgab nope
18:02 szabgab Padre had 101 votes on the poll!
18:04 El_Che szabgab: url?
18:04 szabgab building the report now
18:05 El_Che http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/39790
18:05 El_Che you meant that?
18:06 rindolf El_Che: yes, exactly.
18:07 rindolf szabgab: are you going to close the poll?
18:07 Sewi rindolf: It's closed and Padre missed 97%
18:07 Sewi :-)
18:07 rindolf Sewi: ah.
18:08 szabgab what an interpretation!
18:11 Hyppolit svn: r8869 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8869
18:11 Hyppolit add poll results
18:11 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/ trunk/perlide.org/poll200910/
18:11 szabgab http://perlide.org/poll200910/
18:12 szabgab can someone make that page and index.html look a bit nicer ?
18:12 Sewi Hey, we got a commit today!
18:13 Sewi szabgab: Always heading for big goals :-)
18:15 Sewi Currently, I feel a little bit disappointed, because we get less and less feedback and new users even if the last releases brought really many features and took a big amount of time. The last people who were new to this chan all said "nice work, but I stay using xxx"
18:15 rindolf Sewi: I can try using Padre for a while and seeing what I miss from vim?
18:15 rindolf Sewi: I can try using Padre for a while and seeing what I miss from vim.
18:16 Sewi rindolf: Thank you. Feel free to open tickets and azawawi (if he's still alive :-) ) and I will try to fight them :-)
18:22 szabgab Sewi, don't worry, I think the 101 responses to padre was a lot more than I expected
18:23 szabgab we have to analyze this a bit more and see what are the key features we still need to make Padre more attractive
18:23 szabgab and don't expect many vi or emacs people to switch
18:23 Sewi My daily commit:
18:23 Hyppolit svn: r8870 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8870
18:23 Hyppolit Imprrove the size of the SM win
18:23 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
18:24 szabgab Padre does not fit their use-case
18:25 szabgab so can someone ( rindolf ?) make the perlide.org/  pages a bit nicer
18:25 Sewi Slap me, but I though about a Hackaton on the PHP-Plugin for making Padre as useful for PHP as for Perl
18:25 szabgab there is no need to make them super nice now, just a bit more pleasant to the eyes
18:25 rindolf szabgab: I'm not sure I'm in the mood for CSSing now.
18:26 rindolf szabgab: though I can try some basic stuff.
18:26 szabgab rindolf, then don't :-)
18:26 szabgab so when I write about it people will see a nice page
18:26 rindolf szabgab: the appetite follows the food.
18:26 rindolf I'll try.
18:26 szabgab Sewi, I would very much like to see that
18:27 szabgab making Padre very PHP friendly
18:27 rindolf szabgab: OK, I will - wait a sec.
18:27 * Sewi doesn't like PHP
18:27 szabgab one of my plans was to make the Parrot integration stronger
18:28 szabgab and make Padre the best editor for any language that can run on Parrot
18:29 * Sewi really needs to get the kiddies to bed now and will have a look at the PHP module afterwards.
18:29 Sewi szabgab: May I hijack the PHP module from you?
18:29 rindolf szabgab: http://perlide.org/ - the <dl>/<dt> here should probably be a table.
18:30 szabgab rindolf, I don't remember why is that written with dl/dt
18:31 szabgab but you can fix it
18:31 Sewi And we should have the Strawberry and from-CPAN-howto - installation/download - links in a popular place on the start page
18:31 szabgab and I'll upload the page when it is ready - it is not automatically updated on commit
18:31 Sewi brb
18:41 Hyppolit svn: r8871 | shlomif++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8871
18:41 Hyppolit perlide.org: converted the def-list to a table and added a stylesheet.
18:41 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/
18:42 rindolf szabgab: do you mind if I add a background-color: on hover or a :link:hover { color: red; } or something?
18:42 rindolf I am a fan of such effects, but many people dislike them.
18:46 szabgab I don't know, make something simple and not too bright colors
18:46 szabgab we will improve it later
18:50 rindolf szabgab: OK.
18:54 szabgab rindolf, bing me when you feel it is ready so I can upload my blog entry linking to this page
18:54 rindolf szabgab: OK.
19:00 Hyppolit svn: r8872 | shlomif++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8872
19:00 Hyppolit Add a nice a:hover effect.
19:00 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/
19:04 kthakore hi rindolf
19:04 rindolf Hi kthakore
19:04 kthakore rindolf: guess what!!
19:04 szabgab kthakore, don't disturb him, he is working on the perlide.org web site!
19:05 kthakore szabgab: ah ok
19:05 kthakore szabgab: guess what!
19:05 Sewi Hi kthakore
19:05 kthakore hi szabgab
19:05 kthakore oops
19:05 kthakore hi Sewi
19:10 szabgab cakes to kthakore !
19:10 kthakore yay!
19:10 kthakore nom nom nom
19:10 kthakore szabgab: I am a little buzzed so double yay!
19:11 szabgab birthday cakes !
19:11 kthakore yay!
19:11 Sewi congrats kthakore
19:11 szabgab buzzed ?
19:11 kthakore hi szabgab
19:11 szabgab hi kthakore
19:11 kthakore szabgab: two beers in
19:11 kthakore Sewi: I meant hi to you
19:11 szabgab don't tell me how many out !
19:11 Sewi :-)
19:11 kthakore szabgab: we will find out
19:11 kthakore szabgab: also thanks for the nice post!
19:13 Hyppolit svn: r8873 | shlomif++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8873
19:13 Hyppolit Add some style to the table.
19:13 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/poll200910/
19:15 Hyppolit svn: r8874 | shlomif++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8874
19:15 Hyppolit Add more right padding.
19:15 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/
19:17 szabgab rindolf, you know, you don't have to commit every line of change, unless you really want to ramp up your karma :-)
19:17 Sewi szabgab: It works :-)
19:17 Sewi karma rindolf
19:17 Hyppolit Karma of rindolf is 5
19:17 Sewi karma azawawi
19:17 Hyppolit Karma of azawawi is 1525
19:17 szabgab see who is talking :-)
19:17 rindolf szabgab: I prefer the commit to be atomic.
19:17 Sewi karma szabgab
19:17 Hyppolit Karma of szabgab is 741
19:17 Sewi :-)
19:17 rindolf szabgab: or at least this is the ideal.
19:18 Sewi karma Sewi
19:18 rindolf I don't care that much about karma.
19:18 Hyppolit Karma of Sewi is 608
19:18 * szabgab just talks recently
19:18 Sewi oops, didn't expect it _that_ high.
19:18 szabgab "He who can, does. He who cannot, teaches." - George Bernard Shaw
19:19 isec joined #padre
19:19 Sewi cool quote :-) szabgab++
19:19 szabgab s/teaches/preaches/
19:20 szabgab did I say I am a Perl trainer :-)
19:21 szabgab "He who can, does. He who cannot, preaches" - Padre Perl
19:21 Sewi Oh, I forgot to ask: If you hold a Perl6 course in Germany, please drop me a line, I'ld try to attend.
19:21 rindolf szabgab: it's an amusing quote, but not true.
19:21 rindolf "He who can, does. He who can't, complains."
19:22 kthakore karma kthakore
19:22 Hyppolit Karma of kthakore is 2
19:22 rindolf http://shlomif.livejournal.com/39215.html - here's some research about it.
19:22 kthakore yay!
19:22 kthakore :)
19:22 rindolf kthakore++
19:23 kthakore yay!
19:23 kthakore karma kthakore
19:23 Hyppolit Karma of kthakore is 3
19:28 szabgab the problem with this quote is that many people will think that I mean it
19:33 rindolf szabgab: I need to help const with his CMake presentation tomorrow.
19:34 rindolf szabgab: when would you like to publicise the poll results?
19:35 Hyppolit svn: r8875 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8875
19:35 Hyppolit Extract bracket autocompletion from Perl.pm for use by others
19:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/
19:36 szabgab in 30 minutes
19:36 szabgab or tomorrow morning is also good
19:37 krg joined #padre
19:38 Sewi szabgab: May I work on your PHP module?
19:38 krg hi there, what should i do if i want to get involved with the latest and greatest padre development?
19:38 szabgab sure, help yourself!
19:38 szabgab hi krg
19:38 szabgab do you have padre checked out from svn ?
19:38 Hyppolit svn: r8876 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8876
19:38 Hyppolit Add autocomplete brackets and " to the PHP module
19:38 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-PHP/lib/Padre/Document/
19:39 krg where's the dev trunk?
19:39 krg hold on, i just found the howto page (sorry).
19:40 Sewi szabgab: The trunk URL should be on the non-developer download page
19:40 szabgab I am not sure
19:40 krg i've already got the last version of padre via cpan, will this confuse things if i want to play around in the trunk?
19:40 szabgab but there should be a link to the Develop... page
19:40 szabgab krg, should not
19:40 Sewi krg: The trunk is usually not installed but CPAN does, so they live in parallel.
19:41 krg let me try an svm checkout then
19:41 * Sewi has 0.40 installed "system-wide" and trunk in ~/padre usually working with it.
19:41 szabgab but you should run dev.pl from the trunk/Padre and it will setup things
19:41 krg no special setup required?
19:42 szabgab there are some extra modules you will have to install
19:42 Sewi Just run perl Makefile.PL and it will tell you what it wants.
19:42 szabgab http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki​/Howto#SetupDevelopmentEnvironment
19:42 krg svn co http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk padre
19:42 szabgab this should cover it
19:43 Sewi szabgab: Do you know PHP?
19:43 krg szabgab, so you were in adam the other day?
19:44 szabgab Sewi, no, but I teach it :-(
19:44 szabgab in adam ?
19:44 Sewi PHP's hashes also have {}?
19:45 szabgab PHP does not have hashes
19:45 krg szabgab, short for amsterdam
19:45 szabgab only has arrays bit they do both
19:45 Sewi szabgab: They call it different, but in fact they have :-)
19:45 szabgab numerical and associative indexing
19:46 szabgab they call the whole thing array and that's it
19:46 szabgab krg, yes, virtually I was there
19:47 krg szabgab, maybe someday non-virtually, which is much better
19:47 krg running make test, so far so good
19:48 szabgab if I can organize a training there after FOSDEM ..
19:48 krg what kind of training?
19:48 szabgab and actually I visited amsterdam several times already
19:48 krg cool
19:48 szabgab Test automation using Perl
19:49 krg i work in the heart of adam on keizersgracht
19:49 krg that would be a very useful training, where would you like to give it?
19:50 szabgab does not matter, where I can find students :-)
19:50 szabgab that is, companies sending student or taking the whole course in-house
19:51 krg maybe i could help you out, our office might be a possibility, we've got the facilities.
19:51 szabgab which company?
19:51 krg Interapy, we're working on a generic platform using Catalyst.
19:52 Hyppolit svn: r8877 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8877
19:52 Hyppolit Add autocomplete features to PHP
19:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-PHP/lib/Padre/Document/
19:52 krg i've built an automated build/test/deploy environment from scratch
19:52 szabgab so its usually either a company needing a course for its employees or I am renting a class-room and then each company sending 1-2 or more people
19:53 szabgab krg, that's nice
19:53 krg whatever, maybe we could sponsor the premises for you
19:54 krg i think i'll skip fosdem this time around, getting too old for it
19:54 krg All tests successful. Amazing ...
19:55 szabgab it is just 'cause we have very few tests ;-)
19:55 szabgab so do you have some area you would like to work on or looking for ideas?
19:56 krg perl dev.pl -a, working like a charm
19:57 krg howabout load-testing, security, front-end fir jquery and ext js?
19:57 krg we've also got a work flow engine based on xpdl that could do with some tweaking
19:58 krg oh, you were referring to padre, sorry
19:58 krg well, let me ask you this: which areas of padre are hurting the most lately?
19:58 Sewi krg: Your answer also sounds good with Padre in mind :-)
19:59 Sewi krg: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/report :-)
19:59 Sewi krg: We really need a debugger interface for Perl, more tests and more users
20:00 krg what kind of debugger interface, something fancy ala komodo or what?
20:01 Sewi I'ld love something like VisualBasic but it'ld require a huge amount of time - and I don't know what szabgab thinks about this idea.
20:02 krg an online cpan help integrated in the editor would be nice
20:03 Sewi F2 does this, but offline.
20:03 krg perhaps something contect sensitive
20:03 Sewi Try F2 :-)
20:03 krg Offline sucks if you're in the train without internet :(
20:03 szabgab I have not seen that of Komodo, but yes, we want something fancy :-)
20:04 Sewi Don't understand this. Without == offline?
20:04 Sewi F2 uses all installed modules afaik
20:04 krg komodo can't do that either, that's why i'm still a perldoc junky but not very good at jumping around other modules
20:04 szabgab actually I planned to have a connection to the built-in debugger of perl
20:05 szabgab krg, improving the help facility would be also a great area to invest energy
20:05 szabgab for example I'd like to be able to provide special help when someone is writing under SDL or PDL or Bioperl
20:05 krg i see tons of open tickets but have no idea where to start
20:06 Sewi szabgab: Sure, but the VB interface is very nice: Highlight the current (next) line, drag the next-line-marker to another line, place breakpoints by clicking on the line which gets a red mark before it, etc.
20:06 szabgab Sewi, I don't know that either
20:06 krg sounds like komodo
20:06 kthakore szabgab++
20:07 szabgab http://padre.perlide.org/trac/report/12
20:07 szabgab those are the tickets related to helping less experienced people
20:07 szabgab which might mean a newbie to Perl, or myself when writing PDL or SDL
20:08 krg cannot reproduce #687 seems to work fine for me.
20:08 Hyppolit #687: F2 only works once (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/687 ]
20:08 szabgab krg, that was fixed in a few minutes after reporting
20:08 szabgab and not closed
20:08 krg drats
20:09 szabgab could you close it please ?
20:09 krg there's a subversion commit-hook for closing trac tickets automatically (and refs)
20:10 krg i always require my developers to use #ref nnn or #fixed nnn for _every_ commit, otherwise I can get pretty nasty
20:11 krg szabgab, will close but need login
20:12 krg please register me as kgish
20:12 szabgab http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
20:12 szabgab form is now open
20:15 Hyppolit #687: F2 only works once (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/687#comment:1 ]
20:16 kgish joined #padre
20:16 kgish looks like someone already closed it
20:16 kgish #687 that is
20:16 Hyppolit #687: F2 only works once (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/687#comment:1 ]
20:17 Sewi kgish: Just did a few min ago it as it was my fault that it was still open :-)
20:17 kgish cool
20:18 kgish Have a look at http://trac.edgewall.org/browser/t​runk/contrib/trac-post-commit-hook
20:18 Sewi It was a ugly $_ issue, I wrote about it here http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=800531
20:19 kgish Yeah, good ol' printf's will save the day ...
20:20 kgish about that debugger again were you saying that padre doesn't have an integrated debugger?
20:21 szabgab I have written an almost functioning client side to he built-in debugger
20:21 szabgab Debug-Client in our repo
20:22 szabgab I think that needs some finishing and then we need the wx work to hook it up to Padre
20:22 szabgab I think that is now the single biggest missing feature of Padre
20:23 kgish well let me have a look at it
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21:01 teejay szabgab, yo ?
21:01 szabgab yoyo
21:02 * teejay just got Autodia Plugin | UML | Class Diagram (This File) menu option to work :)
21:02 teejay doesn't display file yet, but get's file, parses it and generates image
21:03 teejay just need to add in image display and you can just click to create a UML class diagram of a document you have open :)
21:03 * teejay is rather pleased
21:03 * teejay off to bed
21:03 szabgab @$ref->{a}   is not working, perl needs @{$ref->{a}} , can you give an example when @$ref has a meaning on which one can apply ->{a} ?
21:04 szabgab teejay, sounds great!
21:04 teejay that's just the simplest feature
21:04 szabgab we will have a killer feature then
21:04 teejay it can do a lot more
21:04 teejay like "generate pod for this file"
21:04 teejay "generate UML Class Diagram for this project"
21:04 teejay etc :)
21:05 teejay s/can do/will eventually be able to/
21:05 teejay :)
21:05 szabgab gogo teejay !
21:05 szabgab tomorrow
21:10 teejay not sure when will have more time to hack
21:11 teejay need to sort out getting paid for a day CPAN hacking as agreed in the contract for this job
21:25 szabgab that's good
21:26 szabgab need sleep, night &
21:41 fg3_ joined #padre
21:55 dhoss joined #padre
21:55 szabgab dhoss, yes here :-)
21:55 dhoss \o/
21:55 dhoss I should like to drink the padre kool aid.
21:56 szabgab you came to the right place for that
21:56 szabgab even though I said about half an hour ago that I go to sleep :-)
21:57 dhoss well do it! I'll poke around :-)
21:57 szabgab have you installed it already ?
21:57 dhoss nope.
21:57 dhoss cpan Padre?
21:58 szabgab yes and a few hours of compilation
21:58 szabgab what OS?
21:58 dhoss osx
21:58 szabgab then you will also have some other fights
21:58 szabgab see the instructions on our wiki
21:58 dhoss oh boy!
21:58 szabgab http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download
21:59 szabgab some people find it easy even on OSX but many struggle
22:00 szabgab I think the key is to us the wperl or wxperl and not perl
22:00 dhoss hmm. okay. I'll report back with  any issues.
22:00 szabgab and make sure it is threaded before you start
22:00 szabgab good
22:00 szabgab and I really try to go to sleep now
22:00 dhoss excellent
22:00 szabgab night &
22:01 teejay joined #padre
22:14 Hyppolit svn: r8878 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/8878
22:14 Hyppolit add missing + signs
22:14 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/poll200910/
22:58 SvenDowideit_ joined #padre
23:17 Sewi gn8
23:17 * Sewi &
23:51 patspam joined #padre

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