Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-11-12

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Time Nick Message
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03:29 waxhead Alias, interesting post about geo2gov work you've done
03:35 Alias It's been an interesting period of hacking
03:35 Alias I've learned quite a bit about a number of new areas
03:36 Alias And I got to revisit what it's like to be a newbie :)
03:36 Alias It's not as hard as it used to be
03:37 Alias I've noticed that as a renewbie, you may not know much about the area itself, but you already know all the major pitfalls and problems at the higher levels
03:37 waxhead being a newbie or the agrogation of the data?
03:37 Alias So as you gradually get better, you notice that all the supposed experts are mostly crap
03:37 Alias Being a newbie is easier the nth time around
03:37 waxhead ha.. I see
03:37 waxhead yes, I guess so
03:37 user_6207 Good evening, all.
03:37 user_6207 I have information to add to #744: "Padre fails on WinXP 64". Since Trac registration is closed, what do I do with it?
03:37 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744 ]
03:37 Alias So I'm looking at people building systems that won't scale
03:38 Alias I see people building things that can't be integrated into anything larger, so will just die
03:38 waxhead user_6207, can you use the pastebin and I'll put it into the ticket for you
03:38 Alias I see people building things that are alternatives to far better official government versions of things, who'll probably be squashed as soon as the government project notices they exist
03:39 Alias I see people choosing technologies that are so rarified nobody else will be able to use them
03:39 Alias etc etc
03:39 waxhead user_6207, use this link: http://scsys.co.uk:8001/
03:39 waxhead where are you getting the list of sites for this?
03:40 waxhead I'm interested in using some of the data for internal stuff at work, mostly informational things like the electoral stuff.
03:40 Alias I'm also simultaneously exploring the narcisistic world of twitter :)
03:40 Alias list of sites for which?
03:40 Alias ah
03:40 Alias You're in AU?
03:40 waxhead Alias, yep.. Canberra
03:40 waxhead these sites you're talking about
03:40 waxhead twitter???
03:41 waxhead Alias, if you ever find yourself venturing this way let me know...
03:41 user_6207 waxhead: OK, thanks. I'll write it up and come back, probably tomorrow.
03:42 Alias waxhead: I was down there weekend before last for GovHack at ANU
03:42 waxhead user_6207, I won't be online tomorrow.. only home because I'm crook...
03:42 waxhead dodgy food causing the runs
03:44 waxhead 150 developers came in for it?
03:45 user_6207 waxhead: If I show up when you're not around, will someone else be able to work with it?
03:45 Alias waxhead: Yup
03:45 Alias waxhead: Where is work?
03:46 waxhead http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/11/05/govhack/
03:46 waxhead Alias, where do I work?
03:47 waxhead user_6207, maybe... there are logs for irc, I'll check there tomorrow night
03:47 waxhead user_6207, usually there is someone around that will take it...
03:49 waxhead Alias, Defence at the moment.. been there a while.  Do a lot of database and ldap and directory stuff ( true x500 directory )  do a lot of data work with pulling stuff in form the corporate data systems ( hr etc )
03:50 waxhead I read your blog and thought it would be interesting to pull the data in, maybe create some sort of objectClass around the informatoin and them import it into the directory ( no GEO stuff though ) mostly looking at a 'simple' postcode to electorate type thing.
03:51 waxhead Alias, of course that's the newbie view on things.. reading that link above shows that the raw data isn't going to do that... so of course interested in your approach to it
03:58 Alias The problem is that postcode vs suburb vs lga vs electorate are all overlapping
03:58 Alias You can't do clean mapping from one to the other
03:58 Alias Hence our approach
03:58 Alias We load all the different layers into one giant overlapping layer
03:58 waxhead Alias, hence the ignorant newbie approach...
03:58 Alias Then we use either raw point, ip2geo or geocoder to resolve a request to a point
03:59 Alias Then drill that point through the layer stack
03:59 Alias And resolve the resulting shapes to various concepts
03:59 Alias Trouble is that government is scared of using anything more detailed than postcode
03:59 Alias I do resolve postcodes though
03:59 Alias But you get the answer for the Google'provided centroid of it
03:59 waxhead Alias, yep.. tried it out on your site
04:00 Alias I haven't integrated proper support for confidence boxes
04:00 waxhead so if that's doable then you could export the data to have the postcode as the key to the rest of the information
04:00 waxhead you just need to rebuild that dataset when it changes
04:00 Alias It's not
04:00 Alias There's still postcodes that span
04:00 Alias So you get wrong answers all the time
04:01 waxhead oh.. so there electoral division will "split" a postcode?
04:01 waxhead which I guess makes sence, as some suburbs will have the same postcode
04:01 Alias some divisions split postcodes, some postcodes split divisions
04:02 Alias Goes both ways
04:03 waxhead so what's the building blocks to get to where you did?
04:03 Alias About 10 data sets
04:03 waxhead all of them on the data.gov.au site?
04:03 Alias nope
04:03 Alias Most are from the ABS actually
04:03 Alias Or the NSW Electoral Commission
04:03 waxhead oh..
04:03 Alias Or the victorian one
04:03 Alias or the aec
04:04 Alias Plus some third party tallyroom.com.au stuff
04:04 waxhead right.. so you had to find the extra data then?
04:04 Alias And a member dump from mymp.com.au
04:04 Alias We mix and match
04:04 waxhead got it...
04:04 Alias In some cases, we have boundaries that are better, but out of date
04:04 Alias Or the official stuff is for the NEXT election only
04:04 Alias etc etc
04:04 Alias I build an import system that sucks everything into staging schemas
04:05 waxhead yeah, working iwth data can be frustrating.. worse when you have to make assumptions about it's mean and intent
04:05 Alias Then a second compiler thing that sucks in the different parts to build a prod schema
04:05 Alias Well, geo2gov is mainly about keys
04:05 Alias I don't actually hold any real data
04:05 Alias Just primary keys and such into other systems
04:05 Alias It's meant to be a drop in search/address thing for multiple other sites
04:05 Alias So I store APH ids, OpenAustralia ids, etc
04:06 Alias And will gradually add more
04:06 Alias Don't store much more than a label name
04:06 Alias Although now I have the entire census... :)
04:06 waxhead really?
04:06 waxhead ok.. I have to run some errands.. I'll mull it over a bit
04:07 Alias Check very most recent post from an hour ago
04:07 Alias Census.sqlite :)
04:13 waxhead cool... will do when I return
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06:23 Sewi Good morning
06:23 szabgab good morning
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07:18 Hyppolit svn: r9188 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9188
07:18 Hyppolit blog about Padre in Japanese
07:18 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.​org/inc/Local/Padre/Website/
07:21 szabgab charsbar_, could you please check if I pasted the title of that article correctly to the about.html page ?
07:24 charsbar_ szabgab: looks correct :)
07:24 szabgab I love to see the mix of languages and letter on that page :-)
07:25 szabgab on the about.html page I mean
07:25 charsbar_ cool :)
07:25 szabgab and do you know who wrote that article?
07:26 charsbar_ nope, maybe a writer or an editor for the publisher
07:27 szabgab if I understand this is some Windows related journal ?
07:27 charsbar_ impress.co.jp is one of the japanese tech publishers, which previously published a mook on perl
07:28 szabgab mook,  hmm that sounds like a book on moose :-)
07:28 charsbar_ news of various freewares, mainly for windows
07:28 charsbar_ magazine + book
07:28 charsbar_ well, not sure if it's good english or engrish, though
07:28 szabgab ah, and I thought it was a simple typo
07:29 szabgab is that magazine bundled with the book or how are they related ?
07:31 charsbar_ a mook is kind of a book, with isbn, but it looks more like a magazine, in respect of size, contents, etc
07:32 charsbar_ hm, apparently it looks like an engrish word :p
07:34 charsbar_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mook
07:34 charsbar_ not so engrish, but wikipedia has no english entry for that
07:35 charsbar_ http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ムック_(出版)
07:35 charsbar_ there is a japanese entry
07:35 * Sewi &
07:41 szabgab charsbar_, I am sure there are some stats somewhere of the number of words in wikipedia in language X that are not in English
07:42 szabgab or the number of words that are not in some other language
07:42 charsbar_ heh
07:42 szabgab err, meaning that they don't have he corresponding expression explained in wikipedia
07:42 charsbar_ nod
07:44 Hyppolit svn: r9189 | ishigaki++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9189
07:44 Hyppolit added another Japanese article on Padre (actually the one I wrote a month ago and forgot to note)
07:44 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
07:46 szabgab oh thanks, for adding it
07:46 szabgab I recently setup a google alert that notifies me (sometimes)
07:46 Hyppolit svn: r9190 | ishigaki++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9190
07:46 Hyppolit removed an unnecessary space
07:46 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
07:47 charsbar_ cool
07:50 szabgab but if you see (or write) more articles please add them to the yml file
07:57 charsbar_ szabgab: sure :)
08:00 szabgab CSJewell, what does the stand alone Padre 0.50 contain ?
08:01 szabgab is it based on 5.10.1.0 ?
08:01 CSJewell Yes.
08:02 Hyppolit svn: r9191 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9191
08:02 Hyppolit link to 0.50 padre stand-alone
08:02 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
08:04 szabgab I think the links to the .par files should be in the howto page
08:04 CSJewell That's why I gave them to you. :)
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08:40 mib_1hg0wq Hello, i found a problem with syntax checking in padre  0.48. How can i create a ticket?
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08:52 user_3655 Hello, is there anyone online?? regards  Franz
08:53 code4pay Hello
08:54 code4pay mib_1hg0wq: have you tried to .50 to see if the problem is still there?
08:56 user_3655 Hello code4pay, i've tryed to install, but the installer say you have an newer version [info from padre 0.48]
08:57 code4pay on windows?
08:58 user_3655 Oh, sorry, yes on windows xp
08:59 code4pay OK not really that uptodate with padre on windows. Did you use the strawberry perl install?
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09:02 user_3655 1st i installed the 0.45 installation kit for windows, after installation i used the upgrade function as decribed in the howto section (perl -CPAN....)
09:06 code4pay hmm ok , sorry I'm not sure then, back to the origional question, and I'm only newish here my self. but 1. Search Trac to see if it is already ben noted.
09:06 code4pay 2. explain it here
09:07 code4pay then ithers will confirm it and then some one will raise a trac ticket for you.
09:07 user_3655 i already search the trac to see if the problem i found is already known, but it isn't
09:07 user_3655 so lets explain
09:08 user_3655 i found a problem in padre syntax checking
09:09 user_3655 add a line of code like this: my $ident = '[:_A-Za-z][:A-Za-z0-9\-\._]*'; # identifier
09:10 user_3655 what you get is a warning about an single = in an if-condition, please use == ....
09:10 user_3655 the problem is just the word 'identifier' after the comment sign
09:11 user_3655 if you change the word 'identifier' to 'identi fier', no warning will be shown
09:11 user_3655 thats it
09:12 code4pay hmm ok I am using the latest from svn I pasted you code into a new document no message
09:13 code4pay if I run check for common beginner errors it comes back no errors found
09:13 user_3655 did you run this script
09:15 code4pay yes I have just that 1 line in a new perl file.  Ran using F5 no message.
09:15 code4pay Sewi: you there?
09:16 user_3655 yes
09:16 Alias evening all
09:16 user_3655 i also tried this, with just this line of code i also got no errors an no warning.... :s
09:17 code4pay user_3655: ok some surrounding code causing it?
09:17 Alias cure
09:17 Alias Someone's if'detector is RATHER sensitive
09:18 Alias Should probably be \bif\b wherever that code is
09:18 Alias user_3655: It's probably trying to avoid the cost of a PPI parsing
09:18 Alias By doing a less intelligent parser
09:18 user_3655 i try to add more lines for you
09:19 code4pay Alias: has there been any improvments to that code since .48?
09:22 Alias Possibly...
09:22 Alias Do an svn checkout and see
09:23 user_3655 how can i do this
09:23 Alias Can you see the developer instructions on the website?
09:23 Alias oh
09:23 Alias There's a new Padre Standalone
09:24 Alias As of like now
09:24 Alias http://padre.perlide.org/download.html
09:24 Alias For 0.50
09:24 Alias You should be able to just upgrade directly, if you previously had 0.45
09:25 user_3655 so i have to deinstall padre 0.48 because the installation kit wrote 'you have an newer version'
09:27 code4pay was that the entire message?
09:29 user_3655 Anewer version of Padre Standalone is already installed
09:31 Alias oh rly?
09:31 Alias Weird
09:32 Alias So the 0.50 installer things a CPAN-upgraded version of 0.45 is newer?
09:32 Alias That might be a packaging bug
09:33 user_3655 it seems so
09:34 user_3655 ok, i will check once more my code, if there is any other problem which can cause the syntax error checking, but..
09:35 user_3655 what i have tried was the pice of code where the warning is produced.
09:35 user_3655 ...and what happens... i got the warning
09:42 user_3655 look at this site: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/7981  and serach for 'if-condition'
09:48 user_3655 thanks for you help, i just hav no more time now, will re-connect later. may be i found any other conclusions about my problem
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10:56 szabgab_mib I got a tweet from burakgursoy hi. that trac thing sux big time IMNSHO. sending a patch must not be that complex Why not RT? I have a patch for Padre: http://bit.ly/2p2wt7
10:57 szabgab_mib can someone pls take that patch, check it an apply it
10:57 szabgab_mib it is a windows related thing
10:59 waxhead someone else said they had something to report but couldn't do it with trac
10:59 waxhead I'll check the logs...
11:02 waxhead szabgab_mib, user_6207
11:02 waxhead Good evening, all.
11:02 waxhead
11:02 waxhead 03:37
11:02 waxhead
11:02 waxhead I have information to add to #744: "Padre fails on WinXP 64". Since Trac registration is closed, what do I do with it?
11:02 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744 ]
11:02 waxhead whoops.. sorry about that..
11:08 szabgab_mib I saw that  and you can just point to the log
11:09 szabgab_mib I think if we see someone with such a username first we have to teach him/her how to change the nickname
11:09 szabgab_mib so we will have at least a nick to refer to :-)
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11:11 waxhead sure...
11:12 siegfri3d good morning sirs
11:14 waxhead OK.. patch is applied.. do I run perl Makefile.PL and then dmake dmake test  ?
11:16 szabgab_mib waxhead: thanks and yes
11:16 szabgab_mib gm siegfri3d
11:16 waxhead szabgab_mib, I'd really need to change my locale to test it with the turkish though wouldn't I?
11:20 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:1 ]
11:21 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:2 ]
11:21 waxhead szabgab_mib, is there a ticket for this?
11:21 szabgab_mib waxhead: afaik no ticket - as he apparently only wants RT
11:22 waxhead open one and then close it?
11:22 szabgab_mib and I think this patch had actually two things
11:22 szabgab_mib one of them - the turkish thing - you cannot test
11:22 waxhead szabgab_mib, also need to clean up #744..
11:22 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:2 ]
11:22 szabgab_mib I don't think we need that much accounting :-)
11:24 waxhead szabgab_mib, this handled the turkish locale, and a test change for docbrowser: +if ( IS_WINDOWS ? Win32::IsAdminUser() : ! $< ) {
11:25 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:3 ]
11:27 Hyppolit svn: r9192 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9192
11:27 Hyppolit Turkish Locale Added.
11:27 Hyppolit
11:27 Hyppolit Fix for docbrowser.t
11:27 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/t/
11:31 szabgab_mib waxhead: actually we don't need that IS_WINDOWS constant as we already have one
11:31 szabgab_mib in Padre::Utils I think
11:31 waxhead szabgab_mib, so use Padre::Utils in the test?
11:32 szabgab_mib use constant IS_WINDOWS => $^O =~ m{ \A MSWin }xms; \
11:33 szabgab_mib this code can be replaced by one that we already have
11:33 szabgab_mib or better : that code can be removed and in the condition we can use the one we already have
11:34 szabgab_mib and also it would be nice, next time to add the name of the person who sent the patch to the commit message
11:34 szabgab_mib to give the credit where it is due
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11:36 waxhead szabgab_mib, true.. I meant to.. but got totally mixed up and put the attribution on #744 which isn't related!
11:36 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:3 ]
11:37 waxhead szabgab_mib, having a real blonde moment.. not sure I should even be doing this... :)
11:37 waxhead szabgab_mib,  ok.. Padre::Util doesn't have a IS_WINDOWS constant or equivilant
11:39 szabgab_mib ack for WIN
11:39 szabgab_mib I don't remember where is it
11:40 szabgab_mib http://svn.perlide.org/padre/tr​unk/Padre/lib/Padre/Constant.pm
11:40 szabgab_mib called WIN32
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11:42 waxhead szabgab_mib, yeah found it...
11:42 waxhead working on it now
11:45 waxhead szabgab_mib, is this OK: require Win32 if Padre::Constant::WIN32;
11:46 Alias It's legal, certainly
11:47 Alias There's two constants though
11:47 Alias One for Windows the operating system
11:47 Alias One for windows the wxWidgets backend
11:48 waxhead Alias, that's the OS one
11:48 Alias right
11:48 waxhead the Wx one is WXWIN
11:52 waxhead Alias, what would be a more 'appropriate' way to do this ?  Should I have a my $win = Padre::Constant::WIN32?
11:59 Alias Don't do that
11:59 Alias If you use Padre::Constant::WIN32 directly, anything it doesn't apply to gets optimised away at compile time
11:59 Alias if ( Padre::Constant::WIN32 ) { ... }
12:00 Alias On non-windows, that entire if statement and any code in it get removed
12:00 Alias Freeing up memory and making code faster
12:00 waxhead cool...
12:00 Alias That's one of the main reasons we HAVE a centralised constant package :)
12:01 Alias So people aren't constantly defining variables everywhere
12:01 Alias You drop in that long-name constant and it auto-optimises
12:04 Hyppolit svn: r9193 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9193
12:04 Hyppolit This is a correction to the patch by burakgursoy via szabgab.  This and the patch to Locale.pm belongs to burakgursoy.
12:04 Hyppolit
12:04 Hyppolit The correction to the test is to use Padre::Constant::WIN32 when checking for windows rather than the introduced constant in the original patch.
12:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
12:05 daxim if (windows) is a case for replacing conditional with polymorphism
12:05 daxim waxhead, read up on that if you want to widen your programming horizon
12:05 waxhead szabgab_mib, ^^^^^  hope that covers my earlier mistake with not attributing the patcht to the right person... it wasn't deliberate..
12:06 waxhead daxim, polymorphism?
12:06 szabgab_mib waxhead: np, don't worry
12:06 waxhead I wasn't so worried about that, but the goof up in public.. :)
12:06 daxim a feature of OO programming.  subclassing and roles are popular
12:07 szabgab_mib thopugh I see    my $isWindows =   in the code  but it might be a display bug of trac
12:08 szabgab_mib daxim: it is a test, no need to over OO
12:08 daxim right
12:08 Hyppolit svn: r9194 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9194
12:08 Hyppolit Removed left over line.  Checked with prove this time. Sorry.
12:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
12:08 daxim do read up on it anyway, it's useful for the future
12:08 waxhead szabgab_mib, yep.. my bad... saw it in the code and fixed it..
12:09 szabgab_mib ty
12:09 szabgab_mib more karma to you :-)
12:09 waxhead daxim, it was subject we covered.. it's in the dim recesses of my mind these days.. I'd have to crack out the texts again..
12:09 waxhead szabgab_mib, it's not deserved though... silly mistakes tonight...
12:10 waxhead I could blame it on the runs I've had, but that wouldn't be fair any more since that's settled down over the day...
12:10 waxhead made lifting the heavy boxes a bit dicey.. :)
12:11 Sewi Rehi all
12:12 daxim 'lo
12:12 waxhead hey Sewi
12:12 daxim Sewi, please fix docs in Wx/Progress.pm - it mixes literal Perl and BNF (should be Perl only)
12:12 waxhead what's it going to take to get right click on the tabs to work?
12:13 waxhead one of the nice things in notepad++ is the irght click "copy filename" or "copy file path to clipboard"
12:13 szabgab_mib waxhead: I think it is a Wx limitation , maybe we even have something about this in trac
12:13 daxim oh, context menu for tabs?
12:13 waxhead daxim, that would be it..
12:13 tsee Sewi: For the record: I just asked the Perl::Tags maintainer whether he'd accept patches. He said yes. That means we can extend it to our needs and add documentation on how to use it with Padre.
12:14 Sewi daxim: Sorry, would you give me an example what you mean?
12:15 Sewi tsee: That's great.
12:15 waxhead well.. time for bed.. since I don't think I've broken anything tonight.. or at least covered my tracks..
12:15 Sewi waxhead: gn8, sleep well
12:15 waxhead speaking of trac, how can I remove my dumb comments to #744?  It's not related to the ticket at all...
12:15 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:3 ]
12:15 daxim example: [modal => 1,] [lazy  => 1,]   this is backus-naur form denoting an omissible or optional element
12:16 daxim but [] is also used in Perl for creating an array reference
12:16 daxim syntax clash
12:16 daxim so take out the BNF, then write explicitely in the doc prose that those are optional
12:17 Sewi daxim: understood what you mean, will do.
12:23 waxhead are we using the AUINOTEBOOK?
12:23 waxhead http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6257​14/wxpython-auinotebook-close-tab-event
12:25 Hyppolit svn: r9195 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9195
12:25 Hyppolit Updated POD
12:25 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
12:25 Sewi daxim: ok?
12:26 * daxim rebase
12:26 daxim excellent
12:29 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:4 ]
12:41 Hyppolit #746: regex replace all is overeager (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/746 ]
12:43 Sewi daxim: Is this a #587 duplicate?
12:43 Hyppolit #587: Padre::Search.pm crash (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/587 ]
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12:44 daxim I do not get any crash, no duplicate
12:46 Sewi Actually the replace-function is currently not working well, because the original one via Search.pm didn't work.
12:47 daxim more bugs. undo is also affected
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12:48 Hyppolit #747: undo not undoing enough (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/747 ]
12:49 beggars I installed .50 .msi and got this "failed to start because perl58.dll was not found" error
12:49 beggars I had remove my strawberry 5.8 before installing this
12:50 Sewi daxim: Undo revokes the last replace, as it should.
12:51 daxim that's wrong
12:52 daxim it revokes only the change on one line; the undo stack erroneously actually has 11 changes
12:52 tsee http://github.com/tsee/perl-tags # for those who want to start hacking Perl::Tags
12:54 Sewi daxim: What's wrong with this? Each replace is one item. If you replaced many things, you could undo each one.
12:55 daxim no, there's one user initiated action (Replace), hence there must be one Undo item added to the stack.  principle of least surprise.  that's how the rest of the world does it
12:55 szabgab_mib let's see how the rest of the editors do
12:56 daxim I'm using Replace All because I want to do it for potentially a lot of lines
12:56 daxim undoing each manually is a ridiculous notion
12:57 Sewi mcedit does undo in steps after replace all
12:57 szabgab_mib in vim if I make a global replace and then an undo it undoes all the changes
12:58 szabgab_mib BUT if I do a global replace with confirmation and I confirm them one by one then the undo also acts one by one
12:59 Sewi szabgab: same for word. Looks like a good way.
13:02 Hyppolit #744: Padre fails on WinXP 64 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/744#comment:5 ]
13:02 szabgab_mib daxim: what do you think about this split behavior ?
13:03 daxim reasonable, but should be documented
13:03 daxim BTW I wanted to ask for a long time, does wxPerl have instant help? ("What's this" in MS and KDE speak)
13:04 szabgab_mib once I looked for such thing but could not find
13:04 szabgab_mib of course that does not mean much
13:04 daxim lame
13:04 daxim I'm disappointed
13:04 szabgab_mib I know, I should learn how to search
13:05 szabgab_mib I wonder if it is available in Gnome
13:05 daxim no, I fear this doesn't exist after all
13:05 szabgab_mib and I am really not sure about wx
13:06 szabgab_mib daxim: and I have no idea what would it take to compule wxWidgets with KDE but maybe you can check that
13:06 daxim I just checked in GIMP, Shift+F1 works on all 5 dialogs I tried
13:07 daxim that's not a matter of compiling because the support plainly does not exist.  the Wx guys have to actually interface with the KDE libraries
13:07 daxim a SMOP, but time consuming
13:10 Alias Why on earth would you undo one at a time
13:10 Alias I thought I implemented it as a one-step undo?
13:10 Alias Of course it is
13:10 Alias You do undo manually
13:10 Alias oh wait
13:10 Alias "instant help"
13:10 Alias You mean widget contextual helpy things
13:10 Alias Actually, it might
13:11 tsee Can somebody on Windows try to run the Perl::Tags tests from here? http://github.com/tsee/perl-tags
13:11 tsee I think I fixed it on win32.
13:12 tsee I can produce a tarball if you don't have git.
13:12 daxim github has zip and tarball automatically
13:12 daxim just click that download button
13:12 tsee Good point.
13:13 tsee Anyone who can test it?
13:15 szabgab_mib tsee: the other day I was looking for the tags thing you added to padre but could not remember where it was
13:15 tsee You mean code-wise?
13:15 tsee Or "as a user"
13:15 szabgab_mib so I implemented an extreamly stupid way of find the definition of a sub
13:15 szabgab_mib code-wise
13:16 szabgab_mib neither as user
13:16 Sewi szabgab_mib: perlide.org/irclogs/ - files are still forbidden
13:16 szabgab_mib was that ever connected to GUI?
13:16 szabgab_mib Sewi: if I had time to do anything about that...
13:16 tsee as a user, Sewi made it configurable just yesterday.
13:16 szabgab_mib but I am still spening most of my time at a client and the number of tasks I am delaying is just growing
13:16 tsee code-wise, check lib/Padre/Document/Perl.pm
13:17 tsee In autocomplete
13:17 szabgab_mib tsee: but could we use it to jump to an actual sub definition ?
13:17 szabgab_mib oh it was used in autocomplete ?
13:17 tsee If it's up to date, in principle yes.
13:17 tsee szabgab, that was the whole point of my adding it.
13:18 szabgab_mib but there was no gui to jump to sub definition, right ?
13:18 tsee not that I know of.
13:18 szabgab_mib ok, so now there is one
13:18 tsee You can use it to autocomplete class names, partly variables, and methods (when they're being called on the class name, for simplicity)
13:18 szabgab_mib that I added a few days ago
13:18 szabgab_mib we just need to connect it to the tags
13:19 szabgab_mib you can use it now if you right click on $x->some_thing
13:20 szabgab_mib but it has lots of limitations
13:20 tsee szabgab, this would be a typical line in a perltags file:
13:20 tsee (for a sub entry)
13:20 tsee _create_buttons /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/P​adre/Wx/Dialog/SessionSave.pm     /sub _create_buttons {/;"       s       line:202        class:Padre::Wx::Dialog::SessionSave
13:21 tsee And then you can use my Parse::ExuberantCTags like this:
13:21 szabgab_mib maybe we can get Sewi to look at it ;-)
13:21 tsee my $tag = $parser->findTag("_create_buttons", ignore_case => 0, partial => 1);
13:21 tsee Sewi++
13:22 szabgab_mib tsee: and with you I wanted to have a serious discussion about the use of Perl in scientific math (PDL and other things) and how we can create a GUI that will help that
13:22 szabgab_mib but not now
13:22 tsee szabgab_mib, I'm not the right person for that.
13:23 szabgab_mib then who would be ?
13:23 szabgab_mib I am already chatting on the PDL list but they are a bunch of vi user :-)
13:24 szabgab_mib command line worshippers
13:24 szabgab_mib actually we started to talk about some PDL - Padre integration, which might be cool
13:25 tsee It's still them.
13:25 szabgab_mib jut my understanding of the needs of the scientific community is sooooo small
13:26 tsee there is no "the scientific community", though.
13:26 tsee "the programming community"...
13:26 Alias sure there is
13:27 Alias The scientifici community cares rather a lot about things like publishing standards for papers I would imagine
13:27 Alias And weights and measures :)
13:27 Alias Well, not universally
13:27 Alias So lets go with publishing standards :)
13:27 tsee Not really. Because "the scientific community" thus includes the human sciences. And they don't care about weights and measures.
13:28 tsee I'm not mocking you. It's just that it's such a broad term and such a diverse crowd that it's very hard to accomodate many variants.
13:28 Alias Like I said, ignore weights and measures
13:28 tsee I'm a high-energy physicist. We use C++ exclusively.
13:28 Alias Let just go with publishing :)
13:28 Alias And peer reviews
13:28 Alias And maybe conference junkets
13:29 Black|Laptop joined #padre
13:29 Black|Laptop hi ;d
13:30 El_Che someone calling? I am a scientist from the human sciences :)
13:30 Sewi hi Black|Laptop
13:32 szabgab_mib tsee: let's just go with  Matlab users
13:32 tsee szabgab_mib, see? I'm not the one to talk to.
13:32 tsee I do approve of your plans, but I can do little to help. I have never used the Matlab ide.
13:33 szabgab_mib but are there people around you (or anyone else here) who use Matlab or similar tool ?
13:33 tsee No.
13:33 tsee Hardcore emacs users all around.
13:35 shadowpaste "tsee" at 217.168.144.84 pasted "Snippet for finding the location (file/line) of a sub (optionally in a given class) using Parse::ExuberantCTags" (19 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/36114
13:35 tsee szabgab_mib, see my nopaste for how you can use perltags to jump to the definition of a sub.
13:36 shadowpaste "kaare" at 193.88.64.250 pasted "Padre dying" (3 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/36115
13:38 tsee szabgab, the snippet is only so complicated (continue) because you get the first matching entry with ->findTag and iterate over the remaining matching entries with ->findNextTag.
13:38 kaare What provoced it? Holding down shift key and pressing the left key a couple of times.
13:38 tsee Otherwise, it'd be a typical while(defined($tag = $parser->next))
13:39 szabgab_mib and I guess this only provides the result based on simple text analysis
13:39 daxim kaare, how do I reproduce this crash?  I want to do a proper backtrace
13:39 szabgab_mib without knowing what might be the object
13:40 tsee szabgab, I don't follow.
13:40 tsee It does not solve the "what class does this object belong to" problem.
13:40 tsee It's just an index of definitions.
13:40 szabgab_mib so $x->foo  and $y->foo will find the same foo  even if $x and $y are different objects
13:40 tsee If you supply a class name, it'll find the sub of that class.
13:40 tsee If you don't, it'll find them all.
13:41 tsee It's not related to the "what class does $x belong to" problem.
13:41 kaare daxim: I get it at random when doing what I said.
13:41 szabgab_mib oh good
13:41 szabgab_mib so now we just need to guess what is $x or $y
13:41 tsee Yes, that's likely the hardest part.
13:41 daxim random is not good. then you have to do the backtrace.  run   gdb perl,  then at the gdb prompt>  r /path/to/padre somefile
13:42 tsee But in cases where it's not possible, one could offer a popup of files to select.
13:42 daxim then crash the app, then at the gdb prompt>   bt full
13:42 tsee daxim, does thzat help much if perl wasn't build with debugging?
13:42 daxim it helps a bit
13:42 daxim at least one can see where it crashes
13:46 shadowpaste "kaare" at 193.88.64.250 pasted "gdb bt full" (118 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8001/36116
13:47 kaare daxim: Hope it makes some kind of sense for you
13:48 daxim yes, we can see it's in wx  :(
13:48 kaare Thought so.
13:48 daxim if you want to try to get rid of it, install your system's wx-devel packages and install Alien::wxWidgets again
13:49 kaare Good advise. I'll try that later.
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14:05 Sewi tsee_: Anything you want me to do?
14:06 szabgab_mib Sewi: it was me I think
14:06 tsee_ *If* you have the time and interest to do it, you could have a look at Gabor's "jump to method declaration" code.
14:06 szabgab_mib to connect the "find method declaration" with the use of the tags
14:06 tsee_ And adapt it to use ... exactly.
14:06 tsee_ The code I pasted earlier does the lookup part of this.
14:07 tsee_ I'm currently hacking on a CLI for Perl::Tags, by the way.
14:07 Sewi tsee_: If I'd work on Padre when I _have_ the time for it, I won't have one commit :-)
14:11 Hyppolit #416: encode dialog (reopened defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/416#comment:2 ]
14:11 Sewi I'll have a look at it but don't want to make any promises as I never got the ctags functions working here.
14:11 tsee_ But you did get a perltags file?
14:13 Sewi No working one.
14:14 Sewi This is why I asked for a command line sample. (As a Padre user) I don't want to learn how the tags work or how to use the module only for using the function. :-)
14:14 tsee_ Okay. Then give me two minutes and I'll commit a CLI to Perl::Tags
14:15 Sewi Thanks
14:16 tsee_ Sewi, done. Get http://github.com/tsee/perl-tags, install it, and then use "perl-tags -r /some/path/to/modules/to/index"
14:16 tsee_ Warning: Running that on Padre will take a while and index like.. your whole computer.
14:17 tsee_ The CLI is subject to change, too.
14:18 Hyppolit #421: crash: no documents, F3/F4 (reopened defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/421#comment:2 ]
14:18 tsee_ Sewi, nevermind -r.
14:18 tsee_ That's actually a little broken.
14:20 tsee_ Fixed.
14:23 Hyppolit #424: segmentation fault: fast repeated clicks to toggle status in plugin manager (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/424#comment:2 ]
14:24 Sewi I'll look at it later, sorry, atm busy
14:25 tsee_ No worries.
14:36 tsee_ Alias: "API CHANGE: Source code should only be passed to PPI::Document->new as a SCALAR reference" <--- wow, that's quite a change.
14:37 Alias Yes
14:37 tsee_ Ouch.
14:37 Alias It was a long time ago
14:37 Alias It was so we could have this
14:37 Alias PPI::Document->new( $filename );
14:37 Alias PPI::Document->new( \$content );
14:37 Alias PPI::Document->new( \@lines );
14:38 Alias Also, it meant one fewer memory copy
14:38 Alias At the time I did it, there wasn't a whole lot of downstream modules yet
14:38 Alias It would be harder to do now
14:40 Sewi Alias: For the Beginner error checks having uncommented source would be really helpful. Can PPI replace every comment by spaces (or any other harmless char)? The number of chars must not change because of the line detection.
14:40 tsee_ Alias, ah, nevermind. It's a bug in the calling module.
14:44 Alias Sewi: By the time you pay for PPI to parse it to do with comment removal, you might as well just do the beginner stuff in PPI too
14:44 Alias The nice thing about it now is that it evades the PPI cost
14:45 szabgab_mib which reminds me, where is the C version of the PPI parser stands ?
14:45 Alias limbo
14:45 szabgab_mib I met Shmuel a few weeks ago
14:45 szabgab_mib and he sent some e-mails then
14:46 Sewi Alias: I'ld really love using PPI for most of the beginner error stuff.
14:48 Alias It should be doable
14:48 Alias It would be more reliable certainly
14:48 tsee_ Alias: We're still waiting for being able to test the XS for the tokenizer.
14:49 tsee_ Though I suspect it'll turn out to require a lot of debugging.
14:49 Alias Am I the one blocking that?
14:49 tsee_ I think you said you'd make the tokenizer pluggable.
14:49 Alias yeah :(
14:49 tsee_ That was the last thing I heard.
14:49 Alias I'm stupidly overworked
14:49 Alias geo2gov.com.au
14:49 tsee_ Don't tell me.
14:49 Alias I'm in the middle of changing the nature of democracy
14:49 Alias :)
14:50 Alias I may well have the opportunity to give the country the keys to the country
14:50 Alias Albeit the primary keys of the country
14:50 Alias :)
14:51 Alias bed for me atm
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18:20 misterwhipple joined #padre
18:24 misterwhipple Good afternoon, all. I have a question about installing Padre.
18:24 misterwhipple After running 'perl Build.PL' and 'perl Build', if I want to run the new perl for testing before I install, is this command line correct:
18:24 misterwhipple perl -Iblib/lib script/padre
18:25 misterwhipple Excuse me, I meant "if I want to run the new *padre* for testing"
18:28 PerlJam isn't there a dev.pl or something for testing?
18:28 PerlJam nevermind.  you want to run the about-to-be-installed padre.
18:42 cognominal joined #padre
18:46 tsee_ misterwhipple, something like what you wrote should be fine. But it *may* be that Padre requires some little extra setup.
18:46 tsee_ There is a "dev.pl" which is part of the subversion trunk.
18:46 tsee_ It sets everything up.
18:46 tsee_ http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/Padre/dev.pl
18:46 tsee_ Just have a look whether you're missing something.
18:47 tsee_ (If anything, it'll be related to the "shared" files such as translations)
18:51 tsee_ Minor design question: Where in the Padre object would a singleton go?
18:51 tsee_ One that globally handles interaction with perltags files?
18:52 tsee_ One parser per document is a waste.
18:54 tsee_ Naturally, I could stuff it into Padre::Wx::Main like everyone else does ;P
18:54 tsee_ But this is a serious question: It's Perl specific, not GUI related and there need only ever be one of them.
18:56 misterwhipple tsee: Thank you, that led me to what I needed.
18:56 tsee_ misterwhipple, any time!
18:59 Sewi tsee_: Padre->ide. Or set it up as class methods or functions.
19:01 tsee_ Sewi, well, Padre->ide returns the main IDE object (class Padre). Unfortunately, that's really not where such a specific thing should go. :(
19:02 tsee_ Maybe I should just make it a function, yes.
19:03 Sewi tsee_: Padre->ide is the only singleton afaik, everything else (editor, document, etc.) is created multiple times.
19:04 tsee_ Well, much of the Wx hierarchy is also more or less singletons. But that's certainly not where it goes.
19:04 tsee_ Oh. And TaskManager and PluginManager are part of the IDE.
19:04 tsee_ I'll go with a functional interface for now.
19:04 Sewi If you build it for Perl, remember that the same thing may need to be build for other languages, too.
19:05 tsee_ But it'd need totally other code anyway.
19:05 tsee_ Well. Traditionally, we've started simple and then abstracted when it proved worthwhile :)
19:06 Sewi :-)
19:07 axeman joined #padre
19:09 axeman Is this a known issue: I went to install Padre Standalone .50 (through msi), I have .45 installed and the instaler tells me I have a *newer* version installed.
19:09 Sewi ping CSJewell
19:09 Sewi axeman: No, I think this is new.
19:10 Sewi CSJewell packed the 0.50 yesterday, he might give more information about this topic.
19:10 CSJewell This IS new. I'll check and see what's going on.
19:10 axeman Would it work if I downloaded the zip and just copied it over the old installation?
19:10 Sewi CSJewell: Do you want a ticket for this?
19:11 axeman Sure, you can open a ticket (or I can w/instructions)
19:11 Sewi axeman: If you already got a running installation, try using CPAN for update. Just type "cpan Padre" in a DOS box.
19:11 Sewi axeman: Do you have a trac account?
19:13 CSJewell Yes, please. I'll check and see what happened.  It may not be a fix we want to take, and here's why: The 0.45 installer may have gotten installed with the *Perl* version being the version of the installer, while the 0.50 installer took the *Padre* version as the installer version.
19:13 Sewi I understand.
19:13 Sewi axeman: Do you want to open this ticket?
19:14 CSJewell If that's the case, doing a remove of 0.45 using "Add/Remove Programs", and then installing 0.50  is a usable workaround.
19:15 CSJewell Doing "cpan Padre" will be another.
19:15 axeman Well the CPAN way sounds doable. So that's it? It came bundled with strawberry, can I just update to the new version.
19:15 tsee_ That should work fine.
19:16 axeman Well that's cool then.
19:17 axeman @CSJewell:No trac account. I'll leave it to you guys if you want to open a ticket for this.
19:21 Hyppolit #748: Padre 0.50 can not be installed if 0.45 is installed (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/748 ]
19:21 Sewi axeman: Any other things you like/don't like on Padre?
19:22 Hyppolit #742: Line numbers are shown at startup, but not shown as "enabled" in View menu (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/742#comment:1 ]
19:29 axeman Is it possible to create a button for a plugin? (I'm in the first stages of investigating this.) Can you link a hotkey? Thx
19:31 jq joined #padre
19:40 Sewi axeman: Yes and Yes
19:41 Sewi Currently, you need to modify the Toolbar configuration option. It is a hard coded default at this time. Look here: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/browser​/trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Config.pm#L335
19:41 axeman Thanks, Sewi. Is there a current plugin for reference?
19:42 Sewi Sorry, not afaik. The PHP Plugin creates actions and only actions could be added to the toolbar.
19:45 code4pay joined #padre
19:45 Sewi Hi code4pay
19:45 code4pay Hello
19:53 Sewi code4pay: any patches to apply? :-)
20:04 Sewi tsee_: "tsee_:Get http://github.com/tsee/perl-tags," - If there a HTTP download possibility?
20:09 code4pay joined #padre
20:10 code4pay Sewi: none Today
20:10 code4pay But I only just got out of bed
20:11 Sewi Are you from .au, too?
20:11 code4pay Yes, I was just thinking I think the Aussies are in the majority ?
20:12 Sewi We got plenty of them :-)
20:13 code4pay I'm guessing from your sleeping habits your in Europe somewhere?
20:15 Sewi guilty as charged :-)
20:16 code4pay Always the hardest time zone for us aussies to work with
20:21 code4pay joined #padre
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20:44 tsee_ Sewi: It's right there on the page: http://github.com/tsee/perl-tags/archives​/b53ba3afecfeb9b312df958902f34c620992a0a1
20:46 Sewi Thanks..
20:49 Sewi tsee_: Warning: the following files are missing in your kit: META.yml Please inform the author.
20:49 tsee_ It would.
20:49 tsee_ It's not a release.
20:49 tsee_ Ignore it.
20:51 Sewi Ok, just following the things shown on the screen :-)
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21:29 mib_ygctbw hello,
21:30 mib_ygctbw I installed .50 and now got this wperl.exe error, failed to start because perl58.dll was not found
21:31 Sewi mib_ygctbw: Hi, please wait a moment...
21:31 Sewi ping CSJewell
21:31 mib_ygctbw I previously remove my strawberry 5.8
21:31 mib_ygctbw Sewi: thanks
21:31 Sewi Before install?
21:31 mib_ygctbw yes
21:33 CSJewell Do you have an activestate 5.8 installed, or something?
21:33 mib_ygctbw CSJewell: strawberry
21:33 Sewi Thanks CSJewell and sorry for disturbing you again
21:33 mib_ygctbw there's 2 strawberry installed now but the one bundled with .50 .msi and the 1 I downloaded straight from strawberryperl.com
21:34 CSJewell No flipping wonder. Uninstall both of them, make sure the C:\strawberry directory is completely gone, and then install .50 again.
21:34 mib_ygctbw ok, let me do that
21:35 * mib_ygctbw will reboot
21:35 CSJewell Good idea, that.
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22:44 fg3 joined #padre
22:44 fg3 getting error on fedora11 with padre 50 install
22:44 fg3 help
22:45 calderman joined #padre
22:46 fg3 libwx_gtk2u_aui-2.8.so cannot open shared object file: no such file or directory
22:46 user_6297 CSJewell: thank you, I've now a running .50 from .msi, I remove my installed strawberry
22:53 user_6297 fg3: If nobody can answer you, try to ask again later on as conversation here are being logged and when the gurus are awake they will check it
22:54 user_6297 fg3: so most of the time when you try later on they have a ready answer for you ;)
23:22 * Sewi &
23:23 Sewi fg3:  Please open a ticket describing what happens. Ping Ryan52 | garu for opening trac.
23:23 Sewi trac?
23:23 Hyppolit trac is http://padre.perlide.org/trac and also http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
23:23 Sewi good night
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