Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-12-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 Hyppolit svn: r9576 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9576
00:03 Hyppolit Fixing template functions for Catalyst Plugin (SeWi++)
00:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
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00:20 Alias That's quite a Build.PL
00:20 Alias I don't have time to really look at it now
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00:28 yoasif hey guys
00:29 yoasif wanted to register a feature request but i was directed here
00:29 yoasif any chance we can get syntax highlighting for template toolkit?
00:35 Alias_Work Someone would need to write it
00:36 Alias_Work I think we were going to start by switching TT to use HTML syntax highlighting
00:36 Alias_Work But since Scintilla doesn't have a TT-specific lexer, we don't get syntax highlighting "for free"
00:36 Alias_Work So it would mean coding
00:37 Alias_Work (We assumed, I'm sure, that most people using TT use it for HTML)
00:44 Hyppolit svn: r9577 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9577
00:44 Hyppolit Adding Template::Tiny to dependencies in preparation for file creation rework
00:44 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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01:03 mikegrb seems a reasonable assumption
01:03 mikegrb I use it only one way other than HTML, some nagios config file stanzas
01:03 Alias_Work I do emails with it sometimes
01:04 Alias_Work The real problem is that we don't really support "mixed" formats
01:04 * mikegrb nods
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01:12 Hyppolit svn: r9578 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9578
01:12 Hyppolit POD typo
01:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
01:13 Hyppolit svn: r9579 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9579
01:13 Hyppolit Removing redundant pwhich function
01:13 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
01:21 Hyppolit svn: r9580 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9580
01:21 Hyppolit I'm sick and tired of not having a simple slurp function available for Padre internals, so I've added one
01:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
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01:33 chm Hi, my name is Chris Marshal and I am a PDL developer looking to get started contributing to Padre+PDL development
01:34 chm G Szabo said that I needed to contact the #padre IRC in order to get a wiki account.  I guess I would also be
01:34 chm interested in contributing in other development at some point.  Right now my focus is on trying to get PDL
01:34 Hyppolit #788: Experimental Stand-alone Padre for Linux archive file name (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/788 ]
01:34 chm working in Padre via Padre::Plugin::REPL
01:35 Alias_Work Hi
01:36 Alias_Work chm: /msg me a login/password
01:36 Alias_Work And I'll make the account
01:37 chm I don't know if I did it right, I PM and typed in the user / password.  I'm new to this IRC stuff.  -chm
01:37 Alias_Work it worked
01:39 Hyppolit #789: Experimental Stand-alone Padre for Linux wrong perl paths (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/789 ]
01:39 chm Thanks much!  O&O
01:39 Alias_Work That won't get you commit though, I think you still need szabgab to upgrade the account for that
01:39 Alias_Work But it lets you do everything else
01:40 chm That's ok, I'm still learning the ropes.  I figure I'll start with PDL side of things and add Padre stuff as I learn more where things are and what they are about...
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03:07 Hyppolit svn: r9581 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9581
03:07 Hyppolit updated TODO file for Catalyst plugin
03:07 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
03:08 Hyppolit svn: r9582 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9582
03:08 Hyppolit missing update for fix r9576 of Cat plugin
03:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst​/lib/Padre/Plugin/Catalyst/
03:10 Hyppolit svn: r9583 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9583
03:10 Hyppolit "short names" checkbox only appear if Cat version <= 5.80013
03:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst​/lib/Padre/Plugin/Catalyst/
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03:49 Alias_Work wtf
03:49 Alias_Work Did someone break the open toolbar button?
03:51 Hyppolit svn: r9584 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9584
03:51 Hyppolit better handling of closing Cat plugin (doesn't crash anymore, yay)
03:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst​/lib/Padre/Plugin/Catalyst/
03:55 garu Alias_Work, hmm? WORKSFORME
03:55 garu :)
03:58 Alias_Work fair nuff
03:58 Alias_Work Mine is always opening the same file, weirdly
04:02 garu very weird... menu open works ok?
04:02 garu File->open, that is
04:03 Hyppolit svn: r9585 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9585
04:03 Hyppolit force call to editor_changed upon startup
04:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/lib/Padre/Plugin/
04:09 Alias_Work http://svn.ali.as/cpan/releas​es/Template-Tiny-0.03.tar.gz
04:09 Alias_Work Yeah, menu open different to toolbar open
04:09 Alias_Work Probably action-related
04:10 Alias_Work BTW, I'm about to bump the TTiny dep to 0.03
04:10 garu Alias_Work++
04:11 garu Alias_Work, how about the Padre::Document::TT ?
04:11 Alias_Work I meant to make one
04:11 Alias_Work Although it would be basically empty to start with
04:12 Hyppolit svn: r9586 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9586
04:12 Hyppolit T:Tiny dep not 0.03 to fix a bug
04:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
04:13 garu oh, I thought you already cooked something up
04:14 Alias_Work I did the mime type mappings
04:14 Alias_Work And the autodetect
04:14 Alias_Work But beyond knowing it IS a template, I'm not sure what you'd want to do with it :)
04:15 garu what I would really love would be code folding :)
04:15 garu because it would allow one to better see the structure of a template block
04:16 garu specially when there are several non-indented inner blocks
04:17 garu highlighting blocks would be cool as well, but code folding for TT would be the killer feature (for me at least) :)
04:18 Hyppolit svn: r9587 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9587
04:18 Hyppolit New file creation is now template driven. As a starting test, module creation uses the itentity_name from config as the copyright owner (if it exists)
04:18 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/share/templates/
04:18 * Alias_Work doesn't use code folding, but I take your point
04:18 garu I don't either, because I can see { } blocks
04:18 garu but not [% FOO %]  .... [% END %] ones :)
04:19 garu oh
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04:22 garu Alias_Work, "brace matching" for TT would make me buy you an entire case of beers
04:22 garu I wouldn't even care about code folding (though if you could do that, code folding would become trivial to implement)
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04:36 Alias_Work You want tag matching though right?
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04:41 garu yes, definitely
04:42 Alias_Work Because brace matching makes less sense :)
04:42 garu heh
04:42 garu you got my point :)
04:43 garu "being able to go from the beginning/end of a block to the matching -tag-"  :)
04:43 garu "brace" matching would be useless
04:43 garu or mostly useless
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05:37 Alias_Work hrm
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06:20 Sewi gm
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06:29 szabgab gm
06:39 Alias_Work whoa
06:39 Alias_Work Sewi: Something's gone weird with the toolbar
06:40 Alias_Work I click on "Open" and I get the popularity report dialog
06:40 Alias_Work Earlier, I was opening the most recent file or a session possibly
06:47 Sewi Alias_Work: I noticed this, too. In rare cases with long-running Padre instances, it could happen. The icons seem to get random action. I don't know why it happens and if it's truly random or how to reproduce it.
06:48 Sewi Are you using trunk?
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07:09 Alias_Work I've installed trunk to system
07:09 Alias_Work So yes
07:18 Alias_Work So, the toolbar is allocating buttons in the correct order, but the Wx id numbers get offset somehow
07:18 Alias_Work "New File" gives me the about dialog for the popularity contest, open file gives me the report dialog
07:19 Sewi I never thought about the Wx IDs, but this may be the solution.
07:19 Alias_Work And something really weird is happening with the menu
07:20 Alias_Work If you drag left/right across the menu, you see huge flickering
07:20 Sewi the menu refresh event fires much to often.
07:20 Alias_Work It's almost as if it was EXPECTING to do a refresh on a single menu dropdown, but ends up continuously doing it on the entire menu
07:20 Alias_Work It looks like that refresh event got "corrected" to the wrong place
07:20 Alias_Work It's only meant to refresh a single specific submenu
07:21 Sewi Why does any menu needs refresh only because it's shown?
07:21 Sewi The menus exist already, but hidden.
07:21 szabgab we used to fire the menu refresh only when the user touched the menu to reduce processing
07:21 Alias_Work So the rest of the time we DON'T have to refresh the entire menu
07:21 Sewi ok
07:21 Alias_Work Although that was calling problems as I recall
07:22 szabgab maybe this explanation should also go in the source code as comment :-)
07:22 Alias_Work Because hot-keys were being disabled that weren't supposed to be
07:22 Alias_Work indeed
07:22 Alias_Work Does anybody know how to do a regex for recursive nested braces?
07:23 Alias_Work I'm trying to find a sane way to do [% IF foo %][% IF bar %][% END %][% END %]
07:23 Alias_Work And {{}} is a reasonable simplified version
07:24 Alias_Work Perhaps what I should try to do is process from the inside out
07:24 Alias_Work Although that's gunna screw me when I try foreach
07:24 szabgab Template Tiny 0.02 fails to install
07:24 szabgab due to missing Template
07:24 Alias_Work oops
07:24 Alias_Work Missing an eval I think
07:25 Alias_Work szbalint: Don't install TT
07:25 Alias_Work So you can test a fix
07:26 szabgab neither will I
07:26 szabgab ;-)
07:27 szabgab but now the smoke testers are down waiting for your fix
07:27 Alias_Work ah
07:28 Alias_Work http://svn.ali.as/cpan/releas​es/Template-Tiny-0.04.tar.gz
07:28 Alias_Work Try that
07:30 szabgab worked on both Linux and Windows
07:30 szabgab thanks for the quick fix
07:31 Alias_Work n/p
07:31 Alias_Work It's a tiny module, fixes are usually tiny :)
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07:37 szabgab :)
07:37 szabgab smokers are back in the green
07:40 Alias_Work grr
07:41 Alias_Work According to what I can read DFA can't do recursion
07:43 Sewi How would you keep a hash shared between processes on the same machine. (A mail receiving server which should get a IP-list for greylisting forking one child per connection). I don't want to use a dedicated DB server process (like mysql)
07:43 Alias_Work There's a shared memory module that does it
07:43 Alias_Work Using Storable in the middle if I recall
07:43 Alias_Work Or something
07:44 Sewi I thought it was very slow...
07:44 Sewi But should try it again...
07:44 Alias_Work I imagine it depends on the size of the hash
07:44 szabgab Alias_Work, check out how Regexp::Common does it
07:45 Sewi I need a key (IP, from, to) and the timestamp, but it would grow by the number of sending servers connecting...
07:45 szabgab it can check balanced ( )
07:45 szabgab and there is Text::Balanced I think
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07:59 Alias_Work hrm
07:59 Alias_Work Also both typing and changing files has gotten really really slow on trunk
08:00 Alias_Work At the very least, someone's doing refresh without an update locker around it
08:00 Alias_Work To prevent flicker and slowdown
08:00 Alias_Work Typing has gone slow too though, and I'm not sure what the cause of that is
08:02 Alias_Work (I don't really understand where the hooks are on typing)
08:02 Sewi I'm just running a profiled padre to look out for the timing things.
08:02 Sewi Guess the autocomplete has something to do with it
08:03 Alias_Work Autocomplete?
08:03 Alias_Work I doubt I have that turned on
08:03 Sewi autocomplete_always
08:03 Sewi ok, then my guess was wrong
08:03 Sewi thanks
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08:03 Alias_Work Nope, it's off
08:05 Sewi wow, my mailserver needs 60 seconds for creating 100 hash keys in shmem
08:06 Sewi using one process at a time instead of 10 reduces this to 6 (per process times)
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08:07 Alias_Work ok, so that's slow then :)
08:07 Sewi All process sum: 1000 keys in 60 seconds.
08:07 Sewi But I need two gets and two stores per mail, so it should be enough.
08:09 Alias_Work hrm
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08:09 Alias_Work Are we doing an entire destruction and rebuild of the menus on refresh
08:09 Alias_Work That looks wrong
08:09 Alias_Work ->refresh shouldn't repopulate the menu
08:09 Sewi No, only on changed things.
08:09 Alias_Work Only ->relocale should be doing that
08:10 Sewi I tried re-using menu objects but once they are added to the menubar, you can't reuse them.
08:10 Alias_Work re-using?
08:10 Alias_Work huh?
08:10 Alias_Work Why destroy them at all?
08:10 Alias_Work I mean, why destroy ALL of the menu
08:10 Sewi Because they're not valid for the current document. A "Perl" menu should be replaced by a "HTML" menu if the file is HTML and not Perl.
08:11 Sewi I didn't find a ->hide option.
08:11 Sewi We don't destroy all, just the items which changed their place
08:11 Sewi As long as you switch between Perl files, nothing should be destroyed.
08:11 Sewi The File menu should never be destroyed.
08:12 szabgab can we just hide/show the menus ?
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08:13 Alias_Work Sewi: We're doing SOMETHING, because the menu is flickering even when you don't switch between Perl and non-Perl files
08:13 Alias_Work Which means they are being tampered with
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08:13 Alias_Work I also REALLY now want to get rid of the Perl menu
08:13 Alias_Work It hasn't worked
08:14 Sewi ok, they _should_ never be destroyed.
08:14 Sewi oh, Perl menu is nice for Perl files.
08:14 Alias_Work Do we relayout the menu though?
08:14 Alias_Work I'd rather change it to Analyse and Refactor, like IntelliJ does
08:14 Sewi I'll check it later, need to finish this greylisting first :-(
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08:15 Alias_Work Perhaps differing content per-language, but still the same top level menus
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08:16 Sewi Alias_Work: Some menus are useless for some "languages"/document types
08:17 Alias_Work Then you empty them or something
08:17 Alias_Work "Not supported" (greyed out)
08:17 Alias_Work Or something
08:17 Alias_Work I want to look at how IDEA/Eclipse does it
08:18 Sewi Why show something without function? It confuses the user showing options to him that doesn't exist at all.
08:18 Sewi Like a "Run" menu for HTML
08:18 Alias_Work Because the menus MOVE
08:18 Alias_Work It's weirder when the gui is shuffling around
08:19 Alias_Work The menus anyways
08:19 Sewi It's what Office and others do and the order always stays, doesn't matter if you got one or three document-dependent menu options.
08:20 Alias_Work Office and others change the top level menu?
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08:21 Sewi afair, yes.
08:21 Alias_Work someone boot mohsen
08:21 Alias_Work He's flapping
08:21 Alias_Work oh wait, I can
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10:11 Hyppolit svn: r9588 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9588
10:11 Hyppolit Spelling correction
10:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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10:50 waxhead hey alias
10:51 Alias woot
10:51 * Alias finally switches back to a non-mibbit IRC client
10:52 Alias ... and waits for svn cleanup to finish on his broken checkout
10:54 waxhead Alias, the major changes you've done, are you happy to see a 0.52 release with them as they stand?
10:54 Alias Yup
10:55 Alias I'm trying to keep stuff incrementally valid at each step
10:55 Alias Although right now, Padre is unreleasable
10:55 Alias It's got some horrible performance problems
10:56 Sewi Alias: How fast is your CPU?
10:56 Alias 2.5Ghtz I guess
10:56 Alias Pretty normal
10:56 Alias Dual core
10:57 Sewi Hmm, it runs usable on my 1,GHz atom
10:57 Sewi 1,6
10:57 Sewi Also seems to be dual core
10:59 waxhead performance isn't so good?
10:59 Alias Huge numbers of menu refreshes
10:59 Alias a
10:59 Alias And typing is slow
11:00 Alias Every time you mouse-over a menu entry, it refreshes everything
11:00 waxhead Sewi, anything you've done recently?  :)
11:00 Alias So if you move your mouse from left to right and back again, over the top level menu, you see a lot of CPU activity
11:00 Alias And flicker on my Windows machine
11:01 waxhead I think I'm seeing that flicker on my ubuntu laptop too
11:01 waxhead see the kephra blog: http://use.perl.org/~sir_lich​tkind/journal/39996?from=rss
11:05 Sewi Alias: I reloaded some changed files within the running Padre. After doing a restart of Padre, it's much faster here.
11:05 Alias I'm hoping for the new locking system to eventually help fix some of this
11:06 waxhead Alias, so what are you planning on doing over the christmas break?
11:06 Alias No idea yet
11:08 waxhead ok... I'm off... early night tonight...
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11:35 Hyppolit svn: r9589 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9589
11:35 Hyppolit Reduced menu refresh events
11:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
11:36 Hyppolit svn: r9590 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9590
11:36 Hyppolit Added a missing )
11:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
11:36 Sewi sorry
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11:37 Alias n/p
11:37 Alias Bugs that last less than 15 minutes aren't bugs, if you ask me :)
11:38 Sewi with autocomplete always, there was one menu refresh event per key
11:38 Sewi Every time the editor window got the focus (back), even if it was given to a context popup
11:40 Alias Weird though, that I didn't have that turned on
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11:40 Alias Let me do an update and see what's it's like for me now
11:40 Sewi It seems that this also fixed the moving-over-the-menu-bar issue
11:41 Sewi But why does the editor window get the focus while menu's are being displayed and removed?
11:41 Alias Dunno
11:41 Sewi Sorry, I didn't expect an answer.
11:41 Alias I've never REALLY entirely understood event flow
11:41 Alias Well, I know more about Wx for some reason than most people
11:41 Sewi It may come from Wx and so I don't want to work on it :-))
11:42 Alias Since I designed much of the primary object model for the editor
11:43 Sewi It didn't solve the moving thing
11:44 Alias There USED to be an event fired when a single menu dropdown was shown
11:44 Alias And it was supposed to only update THAT menu
11:44 Alias Maybe somehow the scope has been accidentally widened
11:45 Sewi "somehow" could be me
11:46 Alias Entirely possible :)
11:47 Alias I REALLY wish you could disable a menu item, without disabling it's accelerator
11:48 Sewi I first tried to create the menu objects once, store them and add/remove them as needed.
11:48 Sewi But re-using a menu object which has been "remove"d before results in a X freeze.
11:48 Alias Remove as in ->Remove?
11:48 Sewi #784 describes the same result.
11:48 Hyppolit #784: GTK CRITICAL error locks down Padre and X (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/784#comment:1 ]
11:48 Alias ->Remove is the Wx equivalent of Perl's DESTROY
11:49 Alias It's essentially a hard destructor
11:49 Alias Well, not QUITE the same, but similar
11:49 Alias What you can do though, is to keep a copy/pointer to the menu items somewhere else
11:50 Sewi I tried to remove it from the liste of shown items. best would be ->Hide but this doesn't exist :-( Or I didn't find it
11:51 Alias I need to write an API sniffer
11:51 Sewi :-)
11:51 Alias Or a GUI for one
11:52 Alias I used to have one for web work
11:56 Hyppolit svn: r9591 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9591
11:56 Hyppolit Menu refresh test (this is a debug commit violating some tests and will be replaced by a permament one soon)
11:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
11:56 Sewi Alias: Would you like to update and try?
11:57 Sewi It shows the complete call path for each refresh to stdout atm
12:01 Alias That looks better
12:01 Sewi ok, cleaning up...
12:02 Hyppolit svn: r9592 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9592
12:02 Hyppolit Clean version of the last commit
12:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
12:03 Alias I shall keep up work on the locking API
12:03 Alias So we can fix this stuff more thoroughly
12:05 Sewi The menus are re-used as long as possible.
12:05 Sewi They're not re-created (now) when switching between Tabs of the same document type.
12:07 Sewi running make test...
12:07 Alias At some point, what we probably need to do is to reinvent the ->refresh process as event-driven
12:08 Alias Top-down doesn't work quite so well in an action model
12:08 Sewi There are some possibilities for the actions to work on refresh.
12:09 Sewi But we're refreshing too much - most changes will never be seen by the user.
12:09 Alias Right
12:10 Sewi But things are prepared and doing everything on-the-fly may be to slow at the wrong time.
12:10 Alias We probably need a way for actions to register that they are relevant or not relevant to some particular factor
12:10 Alias And then when that factor changes, we trigger updates across just that subset
12:10 Sewi There is, but it could be more efficient.
12:10 Alias right
12:10 Alias The only one we really should do huge things with is ->relocale
12:11 Alias Because you pretty much have to destroy most of the interface to do a locale shift
12:11 Sewi http://padre.perlide.org/trac/browser/t​runk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ToolBar.pm#L266
12:12 Sewi Yes, locale shifting while running is nice, but a restart might be useable.
12:12 Alias Nah, what we have works well
12:12 Sewi yes, it does.
12:12 Alias Anything that requires a restart needs to be dramatic and for experts/devs only
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12:12 Alias Maybe for updating Padre itself
12:13 Sewi I don't like first-start-dialogs as they delay people who only want to test, but maybe a popup asking for the locate would be ok if there is no config.
12:13 Alias Nope
12:14 Alias We have a fairly robust auto-detect
12:14 Hyppolit svn: r9593 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9593
12:14 Hyppolit Re-enabled pragma
12:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
12:14 Sewi Oh, I forgot, sorry.
12:14 Alias If you really have a system set to a locale, Padre should automatically pick that up and use it
12:14 Alias If you have a system not set to your locale, you have bigger problems
12:14 Sewi This is the best.
12:14 Alias We already do this
12:48 kentnl I get a really odd behavior with middle-click paste
12:48 kentnl it gives me the contents of 2 different paste-buffers :/
12:49 Sewi kentnl: known thing, there is a ticket about this
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14:02 kthakore hiya Alias
14:03 Alias \o
14:04 kthakore Alias so ...
14:04 kthakore Alias: how bad is it :(
14:05 Alias Not too bad
14:05 Alias But M:I's core isn't strong with XS
14:05 Alias So I shall probably be of limited use
14:07 kthakore awwww
14:07 kthakore Alias: is there any way we can make it one Makefile per XS ?
14:08 Alias Personally? I'd recommend against it
14:08 Alias Some tools have less than ideal support for nested making
14:08 Alias Is Module::Build letting you down?
14:09 kthakore Alias no it is just ... getting more and more arcane
14:09 kthakore Alias: it fails insanle in Mac
14:09 kthakore and I cannot desciper it
14:09 Alias From my perspective, the current version doesn't look TOO bad, given the size of your package
14:09 Alias But I'd make friends with the M:B people
14:09 Alias And get them to make you a pet project :)
14:10 kthakore yay!
14:10 kthakore ok
14:10 kthakore xdg hunting it is
14:10 kthakore Alias: so far we are fine I guess
14:10 Alias kthakore, give him a bit of a break until he gets his next prod release out
14:10 Alias They've done 13!!!! dev releases so far
14:10 Hyppolit svn: r9594 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9594
14:10 Hyppolit remove generated files
14:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Autoformat/
14:11 kthakore Alias: but those are not real right?
14:11 kthakore :p
14:11 Alias Nope :)
14:11 Alias But M:B itself is, of course :)
14:12 kthakore sure ...
14:23 jnap joined #padre
14:24 szabgab garu, would you mind removing MANIFEST and adding MANIFEST.SKIP to the Catalyst plugin ?
14:33 rindolf joined #padre
14:34 kthakore hiya rindolf
14:35 kthakore szabgab: I tried a livecd last night ....
14:35 rindolf Hi all.
14:35 rindolf Hi kthakore
14:35 kthakore szabgab: it is more work then I thought
14:35 kthakore I will try again sunday
14:35 kthakore apparently we need debian packages
14:35 kthakore tar balls don't cut it that well
14:36 kthakore Ryan52: hi is there a tutorial some where to make a perl module into a .deb quickly?
14:42 szabgab kthakore,  have you tried a Debian live CD or Ubuntu?
14:46 kthakore szabgab: The article I send you
14:46 kthakore to roll your own liveCD
14:46 kthakore I went with debian as they have the best perl modules availabe compiled
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15:07 Ryan52 kthakore: cpan2deb Foo::Bar
15:08 Ryan52 kthakore: after installing dh-make-perl
15:08 garu szabgab, not at all
15:09 garu (morning folks)
15:15 kthakore Ryan52: yay!
15:21 kthakore garu: hiya
15:21 kthakore garu: :(
15:21 garu kthakore, why are you sad?
15:21 kthakore garu: lots of broken stuff
15:22 kthakore garu: and I just had to train a outsourcing guy
15:22 kthakore for work
15:22 kthakore not fun
15:22 kthakore szabgab: what Padre stuff dou want on the LiveCD?
15:29 szabgab kthakore, I am not sure but maybe the best long term strategy is to build the live CD from the latest development version of Ubuntu or Debian from their own .deb repositories
15:30 szabgab then anything you are missing just ask the debian folks to add / upgrade ASAP explaining what we are trying to do
15:30 szabgab and if you are using Ubuntu then ask the debian folks to add/upgrde and the Ubuntu folks to mirror
15:32 kthakore szabgab .... okie
15:35 szabgab it might not  give the best results in the short term but will pay off in the long term
15:36 szabgab kthakore, and look at the links here: http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/10/1256844414.html
15:40 kthakore szabgab: ok
15:44 zamolxes szabgab: the debian folks are very friendly (and many of them are hiding among us - hey guys!) , and can be found on #debian-perl on irc.debian.org :)
15:44 kthakore szabgab: um I don't understand that ...
15:45 Sewi kthakore: You should at least upgrade the kernel - Debian usually doesn't run on hardware younger than a few month up to a year...
15:45 kthakore Sewi: okie
15:45 Sewi Or use Ubuntu :-)
15:45 kthakore szabgab: what is a Virtual Appliance
15:46 kthakore Sewi: I might be forced to
15:54 kthakore szabgab: what is turnkey ... ?
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16:17 szabgab kthakore, you don't drive, do you? ;-)
16:17 szabgab or you have voice control ?
16:17 kthakore szabgab: no I don't drive
16:18 kthakore and they have voice control cars now!!!!!
16:18 kthakore @#@$@ we are in the future!
16:18 szabgab so turnkey is the buzzword meaning it is ready to use
16:18 kthakore ah ok
16:18 kthakore so these apps are linked to LiveCD how?
16:19 szabgab what I understand is that these people - and I know one of them - are creating live CDs
16:19 szabgab http://www.turnkeylinux.org/
16:20 szabgab that you can use to demo something or install and start using it for that specific purpose
16:21 kthakore ah ok
16:21 szabgab so basically that's what we want
16:21 kthakore so we want a turnkey liveCD for Padre?
16:22 szabgab turnkey is the buzzword and the name of their site
16:22 szabgab it is just a live CD
16:22 szabgab we want a live CD
16:22 kthakore ah ok
16:23 szabgab in the generic meaning of live CD
16:23 kthakore ah ok
16:24 kthakore szabgab: ok let me see if what I can done for the first
16:24 kthakore one
16:24 szabgab I would get rid of Open Office and a bunch of other stuff
16:24 kthakore yup
16:24 szabgab and add our stuff instead
16:24 Sewi Padre-only :-)
16:24 szabgab and if we can get parrot and rakudo on it, that's even better
16:24 kthakore all I doing is gnome + wxwidgets + Padre + SDL deps + FrozenBubble and Bouncy :p
16:24 szabgab kthakore, start with that
16:24 kthakore Sewi: :p
16:25 kthakore szokie
16:25 szabgab and if that's working we can see how to proceed
16:25 Sewi All (running) Padre plugins including their dependencies. This should include rakudo and parrot.
16:25 kthakore Sewi: ok
16:25 Sewi And some sample source files. People can't do anything with Padre if they have nothing to do.
16:26 kthakore Sewi: very astute Mr.Sewi
16:26 * kthakore sips his tie
16:26 kthakore tea
16:26 kthakore lol
16:26 szabgab https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD  "Making a Customised LiveCD"
16:26 kthakore szabgab: so ubuntu then?
16:26 szabgab I just found it
16:26 szabgab either Ubu or Deb IMHO
16:26 kthakore ok
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18:04 Hyppolit svn: r9595 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9595
18:04 Hyppolit replace MANIFEST by MANIFES.SKIP
18:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
18:13 szabgab Ryan52, who should I ask to make sure both the Catalyst and the Perl 6 plugins are packaged by Debian and then by Ubuntu?
18:15 kthakore szabgab not me
18:15 kthakore :p
18:22 bricas szabgab: you could send a request to the pkg-perl list. ubuntu will auto-sync eventually, afaik.
18:26 kthakore bricas \o
18:33 Hyppolit svn: r9596 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9596
18:33 Hyppolit [Perl6] update version number to 0.61 before release
18:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/lib/Padre/Plugin/Perl6/
18:34 Hyppolit svn: r9597 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9597
18:34 Hyppolit tag Padre-Plugin-Perl6-0.61
18:34 Hyppolit tags/
18:41 szabgab tsee, could you please give me co-main for the Padre::Plugin::Perl6::* modules?
18:41 tsee Who's the primary?
18:41 szabgab azawawi
18:44 bricas kthakore: ahoy.
18:44 tsee szabgab, done.
18:45 szabgab thanks
18:46 tsee hope I got them all
18:48 szabgab I asked for a reindex, we'll see soon
18:57 szabgab bricas, I sent a mail to debian-perl, I think that is the list where the CPAN modules are maintained
18:58 bricas yep. i got it.
19:04 kthakore /win 6
19:09 robn joined #padre
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20:05 Hyppolit svn: r9598 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9598
20:05 Hyppolit updating Build.PL to format locale messages
20:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
20:05 Hyppolit svn: r9599 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9599
20:05 Hyppolit adding a couple of exclusions
20:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Catalyst/
20:07 kthakore /win 7
20:10 garu kthakore, you really need to get used to irssi :P
20:51 misterwhipple joined #padre
20:51 misterwhipple Good afternoon, all.
20:51 Sewi hi misterwhipple
20:51 misterwhipple Should bug reports for Padre::Plugin::PerlTidy go to Trac, or RT?
20:52 misterwhipple Um, try to ignore the smilies.
20:56 Sewi trac should be right.
20:56 Sewi Do you have a trac account?
20:57 misterwhipple Yup.
20:58 misterwhipple I guess I should also open a ticket to change the distribution metadata, so that CPAN stops sending people to RT.
20:58 Sewi I don't know if RT is being monitored. Opening a ticket on this won't be wrong at least.
20:59 misterwhipple It's moot so far, as RT has no tickets for that queue. Unless someone actually *wants* to monitor both places, I think it's best to close that window before anything flies in through it.
21:02 isec joined #padre
21:06 kthakore garu: :p
21:06 kthakore garu: I am trying
21:09 Sewi misterwhipple: open the tickets, please.
21:11 frew joined #padre
21:11 frew hey guys, just fyi, my boss installed padre from scratch, and the default shortcut on the start menu wouldn't run
21:12 frew when we ran the bat file it ran fine
21:12 Sewi Hi frew
21:12 Sewi You're on Windows?
21:12 frew that may have changed in the latest release
21:12 frew Sewi: I'm not, but he is
21:12 Sewi For some reason, Padre needs to be run _once_ via .bat before the shortcut works on (some|many) Windows installations.
21:13 frew really?
21:13 frew interesting
21:14 Sewi We suspect the padre homedir/config...
21:15 frew yeah, that fixes it
21:15 frew ok, well, as long as you guys know about the issue :-)
21:15 frew I'm a vi man, but it would be nice to see padre kill komodo
21:15 Sewi We're not happy about it, but currently don't really know how to solve it.
21:15 frew of course
21:16 Sewi few, did you try the Vi Plugin?
21:16 frew I didn't know there was one
21:16 frew I'll look into it at some point
21:16 Sewi few: There is a Vi-Plugin for Padre :-)
21:16 frew right, I don't know why I didn't assume that wouldn't be the case
21:17 tsee Not sure it's maintained, though.
21:17 tsee szabgab's sub-project from the very early days.
21:17 Sewi tsee: Don't tell him, maybe he wants to take it over :-)
21:17 frew well, it's written in perl
21:17 frew it might be fun to play with :-)
21:17 tsee You bet!
21:17 frew ok, well, you guys heard my bug report for the day, back to work :-)
21:18 Sewi frew: Feel free to do so, we're happy about each submitted patch.
21:18 frew Sewi: always
21:19 Sewi tsee: We really need a Vi-user for maintaining and improving it.
21:20 tsee I'm a vi user, but I'm bathing in work both fun and not.
21:20 kthakore tsee++
21:20 Sewi This is the usual state of a Padre developer :-)
21:23 frew left #padre
21:33 kthakore Sewi hi
21:34 kthakore Sewi: I think I got everthing fixed now
21:34 cognominal joined #padre
21:34 kthakore but now I have a problem
21:34 kthakore Project is not working
21:36 Sewi Added padre.yml?
21:36 kthakore where?
21:36 Sewi project top dir
21:38 kthakore oh
21:39 kthakore we have to make one of those now?
21:39 kthakore before it detected it automagically right?
21:54 garu Sewi, did you see I finished the TODOs in your Cat commit?
21:54 garu :)
22:06 mobile joined #padre
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22:08 robn joined #padre
22:11 mobile Hello,
22:11 mobile I just installed the OS X standalone version of Padre, but it won't open.  I read somewhere that it might require Snow Leopard, but nothing is mentioned on the web site.  Is that true?
22:24 rhebus joined #padre
22:24 rhebus Hello, I just noticed that ctrl+caps lock decreases the font size
22:25 rhebus this came as quite a surprise, since the menu lists the shortcut as ctrl -
22:29 Sewi Hi mobile, sorry, I don't know about this. You may try running Padre via command line.
22:29 Sewi hi rhebus, I don't think this is expected but it might be out of Padre's scope (Wx shortcut interaction?).
22:30 Sewi mobile & rhebus: Please open tickets on both things.
22:30 rhebus sure thing
22:30 Sewi rhebus: You got a trac account, I think?
22:30 rhebus yeah I've submitted tickets before
22:32 Sewi good.
22:32 mobile Sewi, I tried installing Padre via CPAN first, but couldn't get it to install.
22:32 Sewi What happend?
22:32 rhebus just to check, I'm under winxp, can anyone reproduce under other systems?
22:32 Sewi rhebus: Same on Ubuntu
22:32 rhebus ok
22:32 mobile Also, I tried to open a ticket, but I was told to come here.  How do I create an account?
22:33 Sewi Just ask for it (what you did) :-)
22:33 Sewi trac?
22:33 Hyppolit trac is http://padre.perlide.org/trac and also http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
22:33 Sewi Klick on the registration link and please tell me as soon as you're finished
22:35 Hyppolit #790: Ctrl + Caps Lock reduces font size (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/790 ]
22:36 mobile Sewi, O.K.  I clicked the registration link, but I don't see a way to register.
22:36 Sewi http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
22:36 Sewi Refresh the page, please.
22:37 mobile Thanks.  I was on http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Register
22:37 Sewi ok, sorry.
22:38 Sewi rhebus: Did you try 0.51?
22:38 rhebus ooh, no, sorry
22:38 Sewi no problem, just asking :-)
22:38 rhebus is it on CPAN? I haven't got svn set up under winxp
22:39 Sewi sure, just for a few days.
22:41 rhebus just installing
22:42 Sewi mobile: Are you done with registration?
22:42 mobile Yes.  I'm filling out a ticket now.  Thanks.
22:42 Alias_Work rhebus: Google for RapidSVN or SlikSVN
22:42 Sewi Hi Alias_Work
22:43 Sewi May I hand the two over to you now? I'm not really here...
22:43 rhebus Alias_Work: thanks
22:43 Alias_Work I'm about to walk into a meeting
22:44 Alias_Work But I'm probably better than someone else
22:44 Sewi thanks
22:44 Alias_Work hrm, I think I need a new laptop
22:44 Hyppolit #791: Padre Won't Open (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/791 ]
22:44 Sewi Registration closed.
22:44 Alias_Work Something with several hours of battery
22:45 Alias_Work So I get go offline and hack on stuff without running out of power
22:45 Hyppolit #791: Padre Won't Open on Leopard (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/791#comment:1 ]
22:47 rhebus #790 still occurs under 0.51, so the ticket I filed is fine as it is
22:47 Hyppolit #790: Ctrl + Caps Lock reduces font size (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/790 ]
22:48 Alias_Work Oh man I hate that bug
23:01 misterwhipple Should I bother with bugs in Beginners Mode? Or is that definitely going to be replaced with something PPI based?
23:04 Alias_Work The problem with PPI is that it's slower
23:04 misterwhipple Oops, gotta go. I'll check back later for any answers.
23:04 Alias_Work The beginners mode bugs are different and faster
23:05 misterwhipple Alias_Work: Yeah, but parsing source without can be a nightmare.
23:05 Alias_Work The beginner mode stuff does it quick and dirty
23:06 Alias_Work Looking for things that really are unlikely to exist in comments and heredocs (and all the other stuff that PPI handles, but the other doesn't)
23:06 misterwhipple Okey doke. I'll submit a bug to Trac when I get home.
23:06 Alias_Work I agree though, that it's a bit fragmented
23:06 Alias_Work But by all means use it and submit bugs
23:06 Alias_Work At some point in the future, I imagine there will be a unification of PPI stuff and beginnermode stuff
23:22 brunov joined #padre
23:42 Ryan52 szabgab: dam probably.
23:42 Ryan52 szabgab: tho rakudo is only in debian experimental.
23:43 Ryan52 szabgab: due to technical reasons we need a newer parrot than the parrot maintainer will put in unstable/testing.

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