Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-12-24

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Time Nick Message
00:18 awnstudio joined #padre
00:27 submersible1 joined #padre
00:27 zombie_submersible braaaains
00:27 zombie_submersible hi all
00:46 Alias joined #padre
00:47 Alias http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/40049
00:55 * waxhead is upgrading to new mythbuntu...
00:55 waxhead sort of in and out...
00:55 waxhead lots of pain to be felt yet I think... :(
00:56 Alias in and out?
00:56 * Alias sends mail on locking system to mailing list
00:59 waxhead oh.. in and out of IRC...
00:59 waxhead 'floating'
00:59 waxhead so to speak
00:59 Alias ah
01:00 waxhead any major issues iwth 0.53 reported or seen yet?
01:00 Alias Just the one for me
01:00 Alias If you close all files, the function list dissappears... and doesn't come back :(
01:00 Alias Which is almost certainly my fault somehow
01:01 waxhead :)
01:02 waxhead ok.. I'll read that a bit later.. for now I'm under the pump, I must get this mediacentre rebuilt and working before anyone comes home
01:02 Alias I touched a lot of that kind of code in the last week or two
01:02 waxhead WAF is low enough as it is...
01:02 waxhead I suspect you did..
01:02 * waxhead is really ticked off that 802.11n isn't working very well
01:03 waxhead have to go back to G speeds
01:03 Alias G?
01:03 Alias ah
01:03 waxhead but at least that's working well enough that tv guide data will be able to be downloaded
01:13 Alias I find this idea that it takes a whole day to set up a Television kind of funny
01:13 Alias For the equivalent amount of billable hours, you could buy TWO Tivos :)
01:20 Hyppolit svn: r9939 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9939
01:20 Hyppolit Add an extra refresh lock
01:20 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
01:21 waxhead Alias, sure, if you think that every hour of your own is billable...
01:22 waxhead my free time is just that free...
01:22 zombie_submersible waxhead: you still have a carbon cost burning your own free time :)
01:22 waxhead yes I could buy a  tivo and be done with it, but then I'm also locked in... I don't think it should be too hard to get things back this time around...
01:22 waxhead rather than sitting around farting all day?
01:22 waxhead :)
01:23 * zombie_submersible curses and swears blue murder @ the work test-suite
01:24 waxhead the upside of the mythtv thing is once it's up and running, it just runs...
01:24 waxhead didn't miss a single round of the V8's...
01:24 waxhead the major pain has been the 802.11n support... it just doesn't work so well.. for now, I'm running in G
01:25 waxhead makes coping big files to the mediacentre a bit slow..
01:26 waxhead I've got an interesting problem at the moment in that the resolution is outside of the viewable screen... >:-(
01:28 Hyppolit svn: r9940 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9940
01:28 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
01:29 Alias OK, Function List fixed
01:29 Alias zombie_submersible: 10-12 kilowatts specifically
01:29 zombie_submersible Alias: so the smoke tests succeeded for AU this morning....
01:29 Alias woot
01:30 Alias That's something at least
01:30 zombie_submersible but w/ ~80% degradation in loading catitems
01:30 Alias wow
01:30 Alias Where's it coming from? LivePrice?
01:30 Alias oh wait, it can't
01:30 Alias AU
01:30 zombie_submersible with and without prices
01:30 Alias huh, how the hell
01:31 zombie_submersible I'm thinking we're contending w/ other processes and the bench is skewed
01:31 zombie_submersible _HOPING_
01:31 * Alias continues to bang his head against the Aspect changes
01:31 Alias I'm winning, but it's rather a war of attrition
01:32 Alias I think...
01:33 Alias Still haven't tried to implement after() returning yet
01:33 Alias sigh
01:37 kthakore hi Alias
01:40 Alias heya
01:40 kthakore Alias: so um that test was with 4 files open for speed
01:41 kthakore Alias: for more accuracy I was wondering if I can put a die somewhere
01:41 kthakore so it does time to same point of exit?
01:41 Alias what test?
01:41 kthakore Alias: for new speed stuff
01:41 Alias All I did was run dev.pl -p and quickly open, by hand, 10 or 20 files
01:42 Alias Then as soon as they load, hit the window close button to quit
01:42 kthakore ah ... same here but that is not accurate
01:42 Alias Then when you read the profiler data, just ignore Wx::main_loop and Wx::Dialog::Modal
01:42 kthakore ah that would be right
01:42 kthakore ok let me try that too
01:42 kthakore Alias: also I notice that Debug has unjoined perl threads on exit
01:43 kthakore that stick around on windows
01:43 Alias Everything ELSE other than those two _should_ be CPU bound, or at least wallclock will be important
01:43 kthakore have you noticed that too?
01:43 Alias er, no...
01:43 Alias What do you mean Debug?
01:43 Alias Padre::Debug thing?
01:43 kthakore Alias: um sorry the new Debug that szabgab  made
01:44 Alias He made a new debug? :)
01:44 Alias I thought he just renamed it
01:44 kthakore no I dunno ... I meant the new gui features to debug your prgams
01:45 kthakore not sure what it is called
01:45 kthakore it leaves threads running eating my memorary on winxp
01:45 Alias ah
01:45 Alias Debug(ger)
01:45 kthakore right
01:45 Alias I DID see a ->{_debugger_}->quit in the shutdown code
01:46 kthakore sorry I am show blazed from studying
01:46 kthakore Alias: right but does it join the threads?
01:46 kthakore created
01:46 Alias No idea whatsoever
01:46 kthakore crap ...
01:46 kthakore okie
01:46 Alias I have completely avoided the threadding code
01:46 kthakore lol me too until now
01:46 Alias I just do internals and Wx stuff
01:46 kthakore I like the debugger
01:46 Alias And database... and config...
01:46 Alias etc :)
01:47 Alias But yeah, threading is tsee's baby
01:47 kthakore meh ... I guess I could overlook it as alpha buggery
01:47 Alias Zombie threads aren't a small thing
01:47 kthakore but it bugs me ... sometimes I wish I was stupid
01:47 Alias But it IS the first release of the feature
01:47 Alias And new features are allowed to suck
01:47 kthakore Alias: right
01:48 kthakore Alias: I will bug them if it is still around in Feb
01:48 kthakore :)
01:48 Alias Or January....
01:48 kthakore whne I can make a manual test case for them
01:48 Alias I imagine permanent massive leaking is something that will get fixed fairly quickly
01:48 Alias :)
01:48 kthakore Alias: hopefully
01:49 Alias In the mean time, for me it's back to working on Aspect.pm
01:49 Alias And making it actually not suck
01:49 kthakore Alias: ok I ran profiler enable dev.pl how do I read the profiler stuff
01:50 Alias run nytprofhtml with no param
01:50 kthakore kk
01:50 Alias Then point your browser at nytprofhtml/index.html
01:50 kthakore okie
01:52 kthakore Alias: HOLY CRAP!
01:52 kthakore Alias: what did you DOOOOOO!
01:52 Alias hmm?
01:52 kthakore 6.3s -> 2.81s on 13 files
01:52 kthakore HOW!
01:52 kthakore MAGIC
01:52 kthakore BLACK MAKIC
01:52 Alias So how much do you know about ORLite?
01:53 kthakore not much
01:53 kthakore don't care yet either
01:53 Alias It's meant for making tiny orms to embed inside larger programs
01:53 kthakore but good job!
01:53 kthakore wth is orm
01:53 Alias ORM
01:53 Alias Object Relational Mapping
01:53 Alias So it's SQLite specific, and does a lot of connecting
01:54 Alias In fact, it connects to the database for every single request
01:54 kthakore is that good?
01:54 Alias Speed wise, SQlite can do 1000 connections a second
01:54 kthakore I might look into it later
01:54 Alias So it's nowhere near as a server based sql server
01:54 kthakore 1000 hz then?
01:54 Alias Right
01:54 Alias Although you blow all the caches every connect
01:55 kthakore blow means?
01:55 Alias But, it does mean that, unlike everything else, ORLite is thread-safe
01:55 kthakore well that is nice
01:55 Alias Every time you disconnect, you lose all the disk cache
01:55 Alias And the database has to read everything back into memory again
01:55 kthakore OH... that suks
01:55 Alias right
01:55 Alias BUT, threadsafe
01:55 Alias The only one that is
01:55 kthakore yeah but it is slow and sucks
01:56 Alias For small embedded stuff, most of the time it's fine
01:56 Alias And ORLite does support transactions
01:56 Alias Just not by default
01:56 Alias Padre::DB->begin;
01:56 Alias etc
01:56 kthakore ok
01:56 kthakore I have seen that
01:56 kthakore now how can I make this usfull for a game?
01:56 Alias So I added nestable transactions to this Padre::Locker thing
01:56 kthakore right
01:56 Alias And now everything in Padre uses transactions properly
01:57 kthakore transactions prevent the blow stuff?
01:57 Alias right, they keep all the page cache in memory
01:57 Alias And delay writing the results to disk
01:57 kthakore oh so that is good then
01:57 Alias So much much faster
01:57 kthakore so you implemented a buffer
01:57 Alias Not as good as native async SQlite, but much much faster
01:57 kthakore like cpu cache to disk
01:57 Alias Yeah, not really transactions, we never ever do a rollback
01:57 Alias But it holds changes in memory, and then writes the changes to disk at controlled strategic points
01:58 kthakore meh it makes my padre faster so hugs!
01:58 Alias Usually just after it's made a visual change
01:58 kthakore AH!
01:58 Alias In the gap between when the screen changes and your brain catches up
01:58 kthakore that is smart!
01:58 Alias Same trick applies to refreshing stuff
01:58 kthakore this would be good for data driven games!
01:58 Alias The same lock stuff now accumulates all the fresh commands until the top lock expires
01:58 Alias fresh -> refresh
01:59 Alias So you open 10 files and it only does menu refresh etc once at the end
01:59 kthakore Alias: is there a module for this you are thinking of making?
01:59 Alias At the moment, it's highly Padre specific
01:59 Alias Because it has to know the relationship between several types of lock
01:59 kthakore Alias: right so can I learn this from you over a few months and make a module?
01:59 Alias http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/40049
02:00 kthakore Alias: kk
02:00 Alias There's my post on the new lock API
02:00 kthakore Alias: this would be good for card like games
02:00 Alias The part for the database, I'll probably remove from Padre and make an ORLite extension
02:00 kthakore where lots of data needs to be held
02:00 kthakore also RPG and so on
02:00 Alias Because the Padre::Locker is tied to the main window
02:00 Alias And I need database transactions during startup before it exists
02:01 kthakore Alias: sure ... don't know what that means but I will learn this later
02:01 Alias I also found other big problems
02:01 kthakore Alias: make a game and be awes0me like u
02:01 Alias When we were doing the GUI layout, some of the layout functions THOUGHT they were being called from the menu
02:01 Alias And so they were writing the entire config files back out to disk, during the ->new call
02:02 Alias That sucked hard
02:02 kthakore LMAO!!!
02:02 kthakore is that fixed?
02:02 Alias yeah
02:02 kthakore YAY!
02:02 Alias I also don't maintain the horribly expensive automatic "last session" any more, unless you actually use sessions
02:02 kthakore do I?
02:02 kthakore I have no clue what sessions are in Padre
02:02 Alias Do you have startup behaviour set to "last" or "session"
02:03 kthakore nope
02:03 Alias You know how Firefox remembers the tabs you had open last time
02:03 Alias That's a session
02:03 kthakore ah ok
02:03 kthakore yeah  i stopped using that
02:03 kthakore a long time ago
02:03 kthakore it was SLOWWWWW!
02:03 Alias So that makes yours faster too
02:03 Alias It's not as slow any more
02:03 kthakore I will try later
02:03 kthakore where was it in the menu?
02:03 Alias But it was still a feature you were paying for when you weren't using it
02:03 Alias It's in preferences
02:03 kthakore ah ok
02:04 Alias There's a few more things to do still
02:04 Alias We do an Encode::Guess call to detect the encoding
02:04 Alias Which is very expensive, and if you aren't in Japan or Korea it's of dubious value
02:05 kthakore I done see it?
02:05 Alias No?>
02:05 kthakore preference -> behavior
02:05 Alias Behaviour -> open files
02:05 Alias "new", "last", "session" etc
02:06 kthakore nope not there
02:06 kthakore :(
02:06 Alias huh?
02:06 kthakore AH I see it
02:06 kthakore lol
02:06 kthakore that could be layed out better
02:06 kthakore HCI fail
02:06 Alias Toolkit fail
02:06 Alias It's using the original first-generation layout widgets
02:06 kthakore yup
02:06 Alias Which are mostly FAIL by current standards
02:06 kthakore but I forgive for now
02:07 Alias Because it's too hard to hand-write lots of GUI stuff
02:07 Alias I'm slowly adding newer better stuff
02:07 kthakore why not use wx glade like thing what is it called?
02:07 kthakore um ...
02:07 Alias Because it generates shitty Perl code
02:07 Alias I've written an importer now
02:07 Alias But only very recently
02:07 Alias So many things aren't converted
02:08 kthakore http://wxformbuilder.org/
02:08 Alias Padre::Plugin::wxGlade turns shitty auto-generated-by-Python-programmers Perl code into nicer Padre-style classes
02:08 kthakore ah ak
02:08 Alias It's not perfect yet
02:08 Alias I continue to muck around from time to time
02:08 kthakore ok
02:08 Alias But it's good enough to generate the basic ->new code
02:08 Alias You still need to do the rest by hand though
02:09 kthakore it would be nice to have a perl mode in wxFormBuilder
02:09 kthakore that thing rocks!
02:09 Alias The main program with most Wx generators is they use XRC
02:09 kthakore A padre plugin to come maybe
02:09 Alias Kephra uses it too
02:09 Alias It's a native XML format for GUIs
02:09 Alias For Wx guis
02:09 Alias Unfortunately, it means you have to load 2 more fairly large Wx sub-libraries
02:09 kthakore it is a good way to go for sure
02:10 Alias Wx::XML and Wx::XRC
02:10 kthakore ahhh I see
02:10 Alias And they aren't entirely light
02:10 Alias And they get loaded BEFORE the thread-forking
02:10 Alias Which means the cost gets multiplied
02:10 kthakore oh that will suck
02:10 Alias Because we delay require'ing the regular layout classes, they (theoretically) cost us less
02:11 Alias Once the volume of GUI code gets large enough, it might be worth looking at switching
02:11 kthakore right
02:11 kthakore k I gtg
02:11 Alias Or writing some kind of PTK around raw Wx
02:11 Alias later
02:11 kthakore Alias: nice taking to ya
02:11 kthakore go fix more stuff for me
02:11 kthakore :)
02:11 kthakore or and Padre
02:11 kthakore s/or/oh
02:12 kthakore Alias: I will get you in SDL in 2010 just you watch :P
02:12 Alias I just want Frozen :)
02:12 kthakore that will be the gateway drug
02:12 Alias But yeah, I expect you guys to be finished soon
02:12 Alias 3 months till a production release you think?
02:12 kthakore we are working but both or devs need a break
02:12 kthakore 3 months is more then enough
02:13 Alias Do the APIs all change?
02:13 kthakore hell ya!
02:13 Alias Will you need to release as SDL2 ?
02:13 kthakore yup prolly
02:13 Alias Goodo
02:13 kthakore or Ryan will be super mad at me
02:13 kthakore :P
02:13 azawawi joined #padre
02:13 Alias So you can start to dump "production" releases of SDL2.pm quite quickly then
02:13 azawawi good morning
02:13 kthakore Alias: indeed
02:13 Alias azawawi: heya
02:13 kthakore azawawi: hi
02:14 kthakore Alias: I have 0.1 planned for early Feb
02:14 Alias ok
02:14 kthakore Alias: and FB 0.1 shortly after
02:15 kthakore the change to new API will fix up the old FB code as we move it
02:15 azawawi Alias: im using mibbit through firefox now... chrome dev + mibbit seem to die more often the new web sockets api...
02:15 Alias So that should line up well with Strawberry April
02:15 kthakore ya!
02:16 kthakore Alias: ok well gtg study
02:16 kthakore so I can hack this in Feb
02:16 kthakore cya
02:16 Alias later
02:18 * azawawi wonders what problems was szabgab talking about in 5.11.3 for Perl 6 & catalyst
02:18 azawawi http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/12/1261601193.html
02:18 azawawi szabgab: wakeup... ping!
02:19 Alias possibly "it fails when using 5.11.3"
02:20 azawawi btw, perl 6 fails on 5.10.1
02:20 Alias Specifics?
02:21 azawawi http://scsys.co.uk:8001/37578
02:22 Alias You didn't try to reload a Storabled file with a newer version of Storable did you?
02:22 azawawi Alias: i havent debugging it yet :)
02:23 azawawi Alias: whenever i try to do something lately, i get more work :)
02:23 Alias Make sure you flush any cache/storabled files
02:23 * azawawi debugs...
02:24 patspam joined #padre
02:25 Alias patspam: Can you explain what the damn point is with PSGI?
02:25 Alias I really don't get it
02:25 patspam heh
02:25 Alias "A way of communicating between web apps and web servers"
02:25 Alias So... like CGI/FastCGI... but not"
02:25 Alias I never seem to actually see an explanation of what it actually DOES
02:26 patspam it basically says, web apps are all about returning 3 things
02:26 patspam per request
02:26 patspam a status (200, 404, etc..)
02:26 patspam a bunch of headers (content-type, etc..)
02:26 patspam and a body
02:26 Alias And we never had that before?
02:27 Alias I mean, when TAP people talk about TAP, they show TAP
02:27 Alias I've seen plack config files or something, but never seen the actual over the wire stuff
02:27 patspam well, over the wire is http
02:27 Alias So how is it different to CGI or FastCGI
02:27 patspam the beauty of it is the brain-dead simplicity of it
02:28 patspam I'm more of a mod_perl guy prior to PSGI
02:28 patspam instead of having modperl handlers for each phase of blah blah blah
02:28 patspam you just have middleware
02:29 Alias So how does it differ to FastCGI?
02:29 patspam middleware can modify the environment before the webapp generates the response, and it can modify the response before the server sees it
02:29 patspam I don't know enough about fcgi :(
02:30 patspam but I guess it's simpler
02:30 patspam and more Perl-specific
02:30 patspam your app is just a sub reference
02:30 Alias ok, so that's a good start
02:30 patspam that returns [ $status, [ @headers ], $body ]
02:31 Alias OK, so it moves the web server -> app boundary into Perl code
02:31 Alias But using a simple transactional interaction, rather than the mod_perl deep phased approach
02:31 Alias That makes more sense to me
02:32 Alias And so you can get Catalyst style engine switching without using Cat specifically
02:32 patspam yeah, and most cat plugins can become middleware than any plack web app can use
02:32 Alias And thus make something comparable to the 50 line CGI script that works properly in any run-mode
02:33 patspam in the Ruby (rack) world there has been an explosion of web servers for different niches
02:33 patspam that's starting to happen for plack now too, which is awesome
02:33 Alias right
02:34 patspam but for more details than that you should ask in #plack ;)
02:35 Alias No, you just gave me what I want
02:35 patspam awesome
02:35 patspam how's the australian summer heat?
02:35 Alias They never actually mention it's a Perl API
02:35 Alias That I've seen
02:35 Alias I'm inside a tiny little quiet room at work
02:35 Alias Trying to avoid distractions (FAIL)
02:35 Alias And since the air-con is on full for daytime load, it's oversupplied in here
02:36 Alias So very very cold, which is nice
02:36 patspam hah, meanwhile I'm sweating in a over-zealously heated apartment block in new york, whilst outside there's snow everywhere
02:36 Alias Holidays/contracting?
02:36 Alias Or you moved away?
02:36 patspam relocated mostly
02:37 patspam but have to fly back to aus to sort my long term visa
02:37 patspam gf just started a phd over here
02:37 perlsyntax joined #padre
02:37 perlsyntax i new to padre.
02:38 perlsyntax HOw do i close the output  button?
02:38 Alias welcome
02:38 Alias At the moment, View -> Show Output
02:38 perlsyntax thanks i like it
02:38 perlsyntax i just new at this thanks.
02:38 perlsyntax it better then emacs.
02:38 Alias No problem
02:39 perlsyntax :)
02:39 Alias yay! :)
02:39 perlsyntax i was looking for a just perl IDE
02:39 Alias Unfortunately, most old-timey emacs people would disagree :)
02:39 perlsyntax i see
02:39 Alias But we'll get them eventually
02:40 perlsyntax yep
02:40 jazzanova joined #padre
02:55 Alias This wxFormBuilder is nice
02:55 Alias Now I just need to get it to generate Perl code :)
02:57 * waxhead has a working TV
03:22 waxhead patspam, it's freakin  hot is how it is...
03:22 azawawi Alias: code works perfectly on older Perl .... Padre MSI 0.41
03:23 waxhead patspam, nice job on the plugin too.. what I saw of the screen shot looks great..
03:23 patspam thanks waxhead!
03:23 patspam I mostly just stole from the catalyst plugin and then tweaked it for what i needed
03:24 waxhead I haven't tried the latest cat plugin... so I haven't seen what it does to the bottom panel area...
03:24 azawawi patspam: we should automate that in Padre... the stealing part :)
03:25 patspam heh totally
03:25 waxhead I'm still to actually create a cat app... bought the book too..
03:25 azawawi patspam: what's the number #1 problem after stealing/borrowing other code? :)
03:25 Hyppolit #1: Improve load time (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1#comment:5 ]
03:25 azawawi :)
03:26 patspam you have to fix their bugs? =p
03:27 azawawi patspam: yeah and the stuff that you carry unintentionally with you with copy&paste.... changing comments... etc
03:31 patspam yeah that stung me.. I didn't know about message.pot files when I did the initial commit, and before I knew it jquelin had translated it!
03:31 patspam but they were catalyst  messages :(
03:31 patspam felt really bad
03:32 waxhead :)
03:32 waxhead poor jq
03:32 waxhead he's been working hard to keep up the translation of late.
03:33 azawawi patspam: and the other part I really hate is the .svn file copy
03:33 azawawi patspam: you copy a folder from another project and you get a corrupted svn folder...
03:34 patspam yeah I actually did all the initial dev in git so that I could do frequent (private) commits, so that eliminated the .svn dirs
03:35 azawawi patspam: would be nice if Padre warns about .svn folders when it copies a folder...
03:35 rbaumer joined #padre
03:36 patspam it would be nice if someone wrote a mark-up language for wxwidgets similar to html
03:37 patspam might reduce how tedious it is to build graphical interfaces
03:40 azawawi nice
03:41 azawawi i had a todo for wxwidget html->padre help integration...
03:42 azawawi so F2 on a wxwidget method would generate some help by tracing what was assigned to that variable...
03:42 * Alias updates heading
03:42 Alias http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/40049
03:42 Alias azawawi: Thanks, hadn't noticed startup performance was bug #1 :)
03:42 Hyppolit #1: Improve load time (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1#comment:5 ]
03:42 Alias What's bug #2
03:42 Hyppolit #2: Improve search (assigned enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/2#comment:3 ]
03:42 Alias :)
03:42 Alias Next!
03:43 Alias hrm, #2 clearly needs some work
03:43 Hyppolit #2: Improve search (assigned enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/2#comment:3 ]
03:44 Alias Probably need to implement native search to do it properly
03:44 Alias And ditch ack
03:45 azawawi Alias: one more thing we need to save user dialog size/position changes...
03:45 azawawi Alias: so if i place my find on the right, it stays that way...
03:45 azawawi s/find/finder
03:45 Alias Ya
03:45 Alias That's trickier than you think
03:46 Alias I hit some fairly ugly pathalogical cases here
03:46 Alias So you need to record position/etc ONLY if they move it
03:46 Alias And understand the difference between default and specific positioning
03:46 Alias Then you need a geometry validator :)
03:47 Alias Because if you move the dialog, and then change you monitor resolution or remove the second monitor, the dialogs can easily end up off the screen
03:47 Alias your
03:47 Alias The geometry validation needs to be done whenever to show a dialog
03:47 azawawi ofcourse, maybe relative to parent padre?
03:47 Alias Won't help
03:47 azawawi percentages?
03:47 Alias Nope
03:48 Alias Absolute + Sanity Checking
03:48 Alias If a window goes PARTLY off the screen, you need to nudge it back in
03:48 Alias If it's completely off the screen, you need to destroy the stored position and return to default
03:48 Alias I hit this all the time on my portable drive
03:49 Alias Because HOST-level data is being moved around between machines
03:49 * azawawi installs the latest Padre on another machine to verify Perl 6 Storable bug...
03:49 Alias I've been meaning to implement the geometry math for a while
03:49 Alias Separate to the actual tieing into Padre
03:50 Alias Do take an arbtrary rect and check it against what Wx thinks the screen resolution/borders are
03:50 Alias To take...
03:51 azawawi i see
03:51 Alias That's the main reason we're stuck with ugly first gen positioning
03:51 Alias Because doing 2.0 isn't entirely trivial
03:51 Alias On the plus side, TONS of applications get this wrong
03:51 Alias So Padre would actually stand out as being smart once we wrote it
03:52 Alias Only other main downside of storing this would be that it means a SQLite connect to show every dialog
03:53 Alias Right in the middle of the "noticable lag" period
03:54 azawawi dialogs positions should be pulled in one chunk at startup and stored in a hash...
03:54 Alias yeah
03:54 Alias Was going to say, alternative is to hold it in memory and just flush once at shutdown
03:54 azawawi the lag should be then in the saving (hiding of the dialog)
03:54 Alias Depends if you want it to be crash-tolerant
03:55 Alias If you don't mind losing positions on a crashing shutdown, you just hold it in memory
03:55 Alias TBH, what we REALLY need is a backgroundable SQLite writer
03:56 Alias Not sure how the hell to do that though
03:56 azawawi Padre::Service?
03:56 Alias DBI isn't threadsafe
03:56 Alias You can only use one thread
03:57 Alias So that means you'd have to fork/process-launch in a thread
03:57 Alias And that gets slower again
03:57 Alias I want to do some more thorough profiling before attempting anything really crazy like that
03:58 Alias I think the current profile might be skewed by the ->do('VACUUM') during shutdown
03:58 Alias Should tweak the profiling to ditch everything after shutdown does ->Hide
03:58 Alias So all the expensive shutdown-time operations don't count
03:59 Alias I wouldn't mind doing a similar late-write with the file position data
03:59 Alias It does quite a lot of sql writes
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04:02 Alias Which reminds me, we probably need to tweak the task manager at some point to be aware of database locks
04:02 azawawi Alias: any update on the Padre PPI cache?
04:02 Alias It would be a Really Bad Thing if the thread got spawned while there's an active connection
04:02 Alias Padre PPI cache?
04:02 azawawi PPI cache for all the project...
04:03 Alias Is that going to be useful?
04:03 Alias Caching is not so useful when files are changing
04:03 azawawi speed up refactoring...
04:03 Alias point
04:03 azawawi and open the way to more useful ones...
04:03 Alias Well, it might
04:04 Alias It makes cache misses slower though
04:04 Alias Because of the MD5 cost
04:04 Alias And it's going to leave a ton of dead files around
04:04 Alias As documents change
04:04 azawawi i've been using eclipse's auto refresh/build on for a while...
04:05 * Alias nods
04:05 azawawi eclipse takes a different approach to projects than Padre...
04:05 azawawi everything is imported into a workspace
04:06 azawawi that contains projects...
04:06 Alias No reason we can't do something generally similar
04:06 azawawi they even took the concept further and enabled Servers (like tomcat) and made it a project...
04:06 Alias I just wanted to make sure we STARTED intuitive, and then added explicit stuff as EXTRA steps
04:07 Alias Because once you've hard coded in static collections and stuff relies on it, it's harder to do things the other way around
04:07 Alias Having to maintain projects is hateful
04:07 Alias So I really want it optional
04:08 Alias That said, it's probably getting close to the time to look at the padre.yml stuff more
04:08 Alias To start allowing for explicit undiscoverable metadata to be recorded
04:12 submersible take that!
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04:44 szabgabx good morning
04:44 szabgabx so much backlog , it will take the better part of the day to read it :-)
04:46 Casan it will be faster to write it yourself ;)
04:47 jayk Casan++ # ahahahaha
04:47 szabgabx :)
04:48 jayk so szabgab are you an ex jazz guitarist ?
04:48 szabgabx you mean a dead ex jazz guitarist ?
04:48 szabgabx no
04:48 jayk yes
04:48 Casan finally I'm back from bootcamp. going to check up on what happened for the past 4-6 months. no chance in hell I can write that from scratch.
04:49 jayk I was quite shocked to find an album by a Perl Developer in my childs first grade classroom. ;-)
04:49 szabgabx http://szabgab.com/music.html
04:49 jayk yes.  well - Just to throw everything into reverse... I knew of you before I knew of him. ;-)
04:51 szabgabx jayk, which one? http://www.dougpayne.com/cuban.htm  ?
04:52 jayk http://ion0.com/hx/szabgab.jpg
04:52 szabgabx oh nice
04:53 szabgabx now I get why does that look the way it is - first graders...
04:53 jayk I think it got turned into a bowl or something. ;-)
04:54 Hyppolit svn: r9941 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9941
04:54 Hyppolit Arabic translation... struggling to catch up with Gabor (90%) :)
04:54 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
04:57 * jayk curses
04:57 szabgabx azawawi, I'll try to investigate the build issues of the dependencies of the Perl 6 plugins later today and I'll also try to do it to our other plugins
04:57 jayk I just got my ubuntu machine installed with 0.52 last night!!
04:59 azawawi szabgabx: did u see the out of memory storable problem i posted earlier?
04:59 azawawi szabgabx: in the latest msi (perl 5.10.1)
05:00 szabgabx no, I'll read the backlog soon
05:00 szabgabx jayk, you are slow :-)
05:00 jayk hehe.  so it would seem
05:04 Alias szabgabx: You know, you should LEARN Jazz Guitar
05:04 Alias Just for the lulz
05:04 Alias It's far better than me trying to learn baseball too
05:06 * jayk is learning guitar
05:06 jayk I can stand in for you. ;-)
05:07 szabgabx I learned, played quite well, but then my sister came in the room and told me the guitar is not tuned...
05:08 Alias So you're tone deaf?
05:08 Alias That could be a problem with Jazz
05:08 Alias :)
05:08 Alias I think over the holiday period I might have a go at writing an XRC to Padre importer
05:09 Alias So we can use wxFormBuilder instead of wxGlade
05:10 szabgabx have you seen that link with the gui-builder thingy with Tcl?
05:10 Alias no...
05:10 Alias Where?
05:11 szabgabx #805
05:11 Hyppolit #805: Command line and gui integration with RAD (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/805 ]
05:12 szabgabx we have almost 400 open tickets!  It seems Padre starts to be a serious project :-)
05:12 Alias yes!
05:13 Alias We probably need 1000 for that though
05:19 jayk Padre 0.53 installed.  yay
05:24 szabgabx jayk++
05:24 szabgabx later &
05:25 Hyppolit svn: r9942 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9942
05:25 Hyppolit translation fixes + Arabic translation (92%)
05:25 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/ trunk/Padre/share/locale/
06:18 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:11 ]
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06:25 Hyppolit svn: r9943 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9943
06:25 Hyppolit link to blog by Alias
06:25 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
06:27 Alias Thanks
06:27 submersible ....
06:28 Alias ... for linking my blog post, cause I'm too lazy to look in the repo for the website source data
06:28 Alias submersible: BTW, Sonam (sp?) wants to build our own secure tokenising card vault
06:29 Alias submersible: Although I'm not entirely sure he's yet realised the implications of running one, or quite what hes suggesting
06:29 submersible better than bouncing the whole world back out to some other pack of fools
06:29 Alias Crypto Rule #1 - Don't implement your own crypto
06:29 Hyppolit #1: Improve load time (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1#comment:5 ]
06:30 submersible housing one more precious jewel is more attractive than letting s@omeC@rp 'buy' your risk
06:30 submersible build as in write
06:30 Alias build as in write
06:30 submersible ?
06:31 submersible he's bonkers
06:31 submersible sry
06:31 submersible buy an appliance - audit that... or buy a service from s@meC@rp .. that _MIGHT_ be running when u need it
06:32 Alias ooo, a hosted service from *corp might work, if they offer one
06:32 submersible then convince all customers to allow that too
06:33 Alias Mostly it just comes down to "Can we avoid PCI compliance without an utterly reliable third party provider
06:33 Alias I can't see how we can win against that fundamental problem
06:43 Alias So, are there any features that I owe?
06:43 Alias That need to be done urgently, and probably by me?
06:43 submersible oh hells bells
06:43 Alias Otherwise I'll switch out to new crazyness
06:43 szabgab Alias, the refresh of the menues
06:44 Alias submersible: hrm?
06:44 Alias szabgab: ouchy
06:44 Alias szabgab: Have you finished the action conversions yet?
06:44 submersible the fugly docbrowser is working for some POD2::* and not others.
06:44 szabgab almost, I think I have one menu to do
06:44 submersible but I doubt that is anything new
06:44 Alias I'd prefer to wait until all that stuff is finished, so I have a fairly uniform base to start with
06:44 szabgab but there is still code in the Menu::* files
06:45 szabgab you can start it now, I'll finish it in a few hours
06:45 Alias OK, go as far as you are comfortable with, and once the obvious stuff is done I'll point some fresh eyes at the problem
06:45 Alias If you can finish inside of say 3 hours I'll sync before I jump on the train to parents for Christmas stuff
06:46 szabgab Alias, oh the first time padre.exe does not work bug
06:46 Alias Don't look at me
06:46 Alias padre.exe isn't my fault :)
06:46 * Alias points at whoever wrote it
06:47 Hyppolit #664: Integrate POD2::FR, POD2::IT and in general any POD2::8 module (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/664#comment:1 ]
06:47 szabgab so you have a better pair of fresh eyes :-)
06:47 Alias I'm also rather lacking in machines that have never run Padre
06:47 Alias I do have some neato Win32 profiling and tracing tools though
06:47 szabgab I think it was the .padre creation
06:47 Alias That seems like a weird thing to block on
06:51 Alias But I'll point the thingy at it
06:52 Alias or hell, someone else can
06:52 szabgab but it is a horrible user experience
06:52 Alias I know
06:52 szabgab you install padre from .msi and it does not do anything
06:53 Alias The deadline is really the next release of standalone
06:53 szabgab I checked, only the View menu remains to actionify
06:54 szabgab I don't know what happened to my windows machine but after a crash (and an upgrade to SP2) perl is crashing
06:54 szabgab with the popup to send this to Microsof
06:54 szabgab t
06:55 Alias I get that too, when I run perl dev.pl -d
06:55 Alias On exit
06:55 Alias Not every time though
06:56 szabgab it did not happen before
06:56 szabgab now Windows found it also has SP 3 to download
06:56 szabgab let me see what happens after that
06:56 Alias I just connected my Vista machine after a year offline
06:56 Alias It took 2 hours to upgrade
06:57 Alias 1 Critical Download... then once complete, now there's 17 more Critical Downloads, then after that a Critical Download of Vista Service Pack 2, then once complete another 2 Critical Downloads of new IE and so on
06:57 CSJewell joined #padre
06:58 szabgab ho CSJewell is here!
06:59 Alias Or at least, his internet connection is
06:59 szabgab maybe he can say something about the perl.exe bug
06:59 Alias Probably not
06:59 szabgab padre.exe
06:59 Alias kmx on the other hand...
06:59 Alias He's the one with the compiler-fu
07:03 szabgab Alias, and another thing for you
07:03 szabgab the memory leaks we have
07:04 szabgab I think we still cross reference between editor and document, leaking memory every time you open/close a file
07:06 Alias szabgab: That's entirely possible
07:07 Alias Someone mentioned earlier in (my) day that the debuggers are hanging around as zombie threads/processes btw
07:07 szabgab it happens sometimes to me on Ubuntu, but rarely
07:07 Alias The whole document/editor boundary is horrible though, it's still on my list of rewrites
07:08 Alias Trouble is we need to do Document, Editor and Notebook pretty much all simultaneously
07:08 CSJewell I wish I knew. Try this: Install padre standalone, then reboot the computer, then try running padre.exe. Does the problem still exist?  (I've had problems with needing a reboot to get the environment variables and other such things set)
07:08 Alias And there's always been something more urgent
07:08 Alias CSJewell: It's not that I don't think
07:08 Alias CSJewell: Because if you run padre.bat, then it starts working
07:09 CSJewell I'll try and duplicate it in the morning on a clean VM.
07:09 Alias How's the beta coming btw, anything I can do?
07:09 Alias It's almost January... :)
07:10 CSJewell I know... and unfortunately, the holiday stuff has not been cooperating.  I've got a weird bug I've almost got a handle on right now.
07:10 szabgab CSJewell, are you still on that slow machine ?
07:10 CSJewell Do you have much in the way of C knowledge, Alias?
07:10 CSJewell No.
07:11 CSJewell Got the new machine.
07:11 Alias Me, no C knowledge
07:12 Alias I stick to Perl, with a dose of Economics, Game Theory and what not for higher level design issues
07:12 Alias I don't go much lower level than Perl
07:14 szabgab The View menu is also quite horrible to turn into actions
07:14 CSJewell Basically, what would be helpful is some C code that I can run during the installation (so I can't just hook to perl510.dll) that does an s{c:\strawberry}{$new_location}g without too much in the way of dependencies on a given (short) list of files.  I can do it if I have to, but it may not be fast yet.
07:15 Alias szabgab: Indeed
07:16 Alias CSJewell: I suppose asking jdb is out of the question too :)
07:16 Alias CSJewell: Throw an appeal up on #p5p or the list, and I imagine you can get some help
07:17 Alias All the Perl+C folk live there
07:18 CSJewell The (obvious) problem with asking jdb is that I need to have it with an OSI license .... I'll do that in the morning. (It's after midnight here.)
07:18 Alias No, don't ask him
07:18 Alias It's bad form
07:18 CSJewell Once I get the basic code, I can fix it up to be...
07:18 CSJewell I meant asking p5p for the second part.
07:18 Alias ah
07:18 Alias :)
07:18 CSJewell ... an MSI custom action like the ClearFolder code.
07:19 * Alias nods
07:19 Alias Maybe the MSI mailing list knows
07:19 Alias It's certainly high volume enough, and a SimpleStringReplaceInFiles seems like an obvious thing to have
07:21 CSJewell Maybe. Any rate, wanting to fall asleep.  Will catch things in the morning.
07:21 Alias Later
07:21 Alias So
07:21 Alias I don't suppose anyone wants to write me a Right-Click "Open This Class" for Christmas
07:25 szabgab what do you mean by that ?
07:26 szabgab if you put the cursor on A::B  you want it to open A/B.pm ?
07:26 Alias Right
07:27 Alias 1. Detect the class name (either the selected text, or the string that matches the pattern of a class that surrounds the cursor position)
07:27 Alias 2. Locate the matching A/B.pm in a) The current project b) @INC
07:28 szabgab that's what ctrl-shif-o does
07:28 szabgab open selection
07:28 Alias It does what?
07:28 Alias Do I need to highlight?
07:28 szabgab yes
07:28 Alias ick
07:28 szabgab what ick
07:28 Alias The highlighting bit
07:29 Alias OK, so clearly I need to write the logic for "Given an arbitrary regex, find the string that represents the match within which sits the cursor"
07:29 Alias szabgab: On a laptop touchpad, accurately highlighting a class name is a bit harder than with a mouse
07:29 Alias Slower anyway
07:30 szabgab I mostly use the keyboard not the mouse
07:30 szabgab hence we have Alt-/   to imitate the right click :-)
07:31 Alias So basically, if the selection looks like a class, we just need to append "Open Selection" to the right click menu?
07:31 szabgab but allowing to find the sorrounding module name would be a nice improvement
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07:31 Alias And then add the "Surrounding regeex" thing as an enhancement
07:31 szabgab yes, and as it is an action, that should be simple
07:32 Alias hmm
07:32 Alias I highlight a module, hit Ctrl-shift-o and nothing happens
07:32 Alias Hang on, there is no Open Selection menu entry
07:33 Alias um... hrm
07:33 Alias I may have removed it due to it not working...
07:33 Alias erk
07:33 Alias Or not, but vague memories...
07:35 szabgab need to have func_session enabled
07:35 szabgab which plain crazy
07:35 szabgab or it won't show up at all
07:35 szabgab close padre and turn it on in .padre/config.yml
07:36 Alias It needs session support?
07:36 Alias WTH?
07:39 szabgab it is enabled/disabled by the same config option
07:40 Alias weird
07:40 Alias That might be a bug
07:40 Alias Might be time to make an Open... -> menu anyways
07:40 szabgab so move it out in the Menu::File
07:40 Alias To put the URL, Example, and then allow other things like plugins to put stuff in
07:41 Alias Would fit the pattern
07:41 Alias New
07:41 Alias New... ->
07:41 Alias Open
07:41 Alias Open... ->
07:41 Alias Close
07:41 Alias Close... ->
07:41 Alias And we can expose plugin hooks for all three at the same time... maybe...
07:42 szabgab I was hoping that we will let the plugins create actions
07:42 szabgab and then hand those actions on the menu system
07:42 szabgab hand/hang
07:42 Alias What do you mean by "hand them to"
07:43 Alias Can I just state for the record that I REALLY REALLY don't want user-configurable menus
07:43 Alias I've never seen it done well in any application, and I don't know of anyone that uses them, and it's one of the things that annoyed me the most about Kephra
07:44 Alias I'm quite happy living with the whole "Disable feature X" type thing, where some parts of a menu relating to some topic dissapear
07:44 Alias But once users start configuring their own menus, that way lies upgrade hell
07:45 Alias Configurable toolbars are tolerable
07:45 Alias (and useful)
07:48 szabgab hmm
07:49 Alias szabgab: I suppose it does make sense to let them register actions, and then return a menu_whatever { [ 'plugin.whatever.action.foo', '---', [ ... ] ] }
07:49 szabgab I had the same feeling with Kephra
07:49 Alias In his case, the problem was compounded by dual-maintenance of the menu structure for every separate language
07:49 szabgab so maybe it is indeed a bad idea to make the whole thing configurable by the end user
07:50 Alias Actions give you a necesary level of abstraction
07:50 Alias But the menu code, or classes, or something, should probably continue to exist
07:50 szabgab but I can imagine an application which is not an editor built on this infratructure
07:50 Alias Sure
07:50 szabgab that would just need a totally different set of menues
07:50 Alias But it wouldn't be that hard to make a different Menu classs
07:50 Alias Especially if the code is fairly simple, because of the action abstraction
07:51 szabgab it would of course still be configured by the developer and not the end user
07:51 Alias Right
07:51 Alias And if the developer wants, he can add his own config file to menu blah blah
07:51 Alias BTW, I found a native Wx Action concept
07:52 Alias It's called Wx::Command in their case, and it's somehow tied into the Undo system
07:53 szabgab I had a bad feeling we are reimplementing something :-)
07:53 Alias I took a look at their implementation
07:53 Alias It's... limiting
07:53 szabgab but maybe we need to subclass it
07:53 Alias I can see how things like Notepad++ come up with Macro systems
07:53 Alias Yeah, might be worth it
07:53 Alias Worth investigating for the Action rewrite
07:54 Alias When we finally do the next version
07:54 Alias After we've learned all the ways the current one sucks :)
07:56 szabgab for example I am thinking that the language selector might need to be one single action
07:56 szabgab and not one action per language
07:56 szabgab but I don't know how to do it either way yet
07:56 Alias Or no actions at all
07:57 Alias Actions with params are a much bigger kettle of fish
07:57 Alias I'm a little scary of it
07:57 Alias scared
07:58 Hyppolit svn: r9944 | submersible_toaster++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9944
07:58 Hyppolit #664 pass a hint to perldoc if the padre locale suggests anything other than english.
07:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/HelpProvider/
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08:04 szabgab huh
08:04 szabgab DESTROY ignored because DBI dbh handle (DBD::SQLite::db) is owned by thread 1f3c010 not current thread 547b1d0
08:05 submersible szabgab: i have seen that sometime recently on trunk quit
08:05 szabgab this is my first time
08:05 szabgab it is probably the fault of Alias, who else :-)
08:06 szabgab he said that DBI is not thread safe
08:07 Alias oh dear
08:07 yakudzo joined #padre
08:07 Alias szabgab: Remember I mentioned that the Task manager might need to learn how to delay execution of tasks until DBI is disconnected?
08:07 Alias This would be that :(
08:08 szabgab :-)
08:08 Alias Or at least, it needs to delay the spawning of new threads
08:08 Alias I guess I need to write something into ::Locker to notify the task manager when it isn't safe to spawn
08:12 Alias submersible: I think I've finally got Aspect.pm reorganised now, so that everything is now split out by aspect type, and not two layers of abstracted generalisation on top of a modified Damiancode monstrosity
08:12 Alias submersible: So that just leaves the creationi of the new type of Aspect I need to make the simplest version of our timer hooks
08:14 Hyppolit svn: r9945 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9945
08:14 Hyppolit move a bunch of menu items from the View menu to View Actions
08:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/xt/
08:21 szabgab Alias, so the Actionification is done
08:22 szabgab the left over are the sub-menus with the radios buttons
08:22 szabgab and the long configuartion code
08:22 Alias ok
08:22 Alias svn updating now
08:37 szabgab the Padre stand alone uninstall already runs for 10 minutes
08:37 szabgab this is really unacceptable
08:38 szabgab we need a better solution there or everyone will just laugh at us
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08:39 szabgab and it is hard to me to believe that we need to reboot Windows in order to uninstall Padre
08:42 El_Che morning?
08:42 El_Che do you do registry stuff?
08:43 szabgab I have no idea, CSJewell does the Windows installer
08:50 Alias El_Che: On Vista or later, changes to the global environment don't stick until a reboot
08:50 Alias In XP they used to change in the currently active top level environment
08:50 Alias Alas, no more
08:51 Alias Thus, there's a reboot request in the installer now
08:51 Alias I assume the envionrment thing was a security flaw on the part of MS, and they fixed it
08:52 Alias szabgab: The uninstall runs faster if you haven't used the CPAN much
08:52 Alias Most of the cost is calculating file sizes of CPAN's build directory
08:52 Alias To see how much space it will release, or something
08:52 Alias He's working on a fix
08:56 yakudzo submersible: you fixed http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/390 ??? "Middle button should replace the current selection with the so called 'PrimarySelection?'. The problem this raises is how to distinguish when a selection buffer should be written to the PrimarySelection? or not. "
08:56 yakudzo If you mean behavior like: Write "foo", next line "bar" , # Select "foo" by double clicking it ,# Select "bar" by double clicking it , # Press middle button
08:57 yakudzo "bar" is replaced by "foo"
08:57 yakudzo it is imposible to make so
08:58 yakudzo even X11 behaves like : "bar" is (depending on exact cursor position) replaced by "bbarar" or "babarr"
08:58 szabgab reinstalled Padre on Windows, now adding the missing modules and then I'll try to runt the smoker again
09:06 Hyppolit #664: Integrate POD2::FR, POD2::IT and in general any POD2::8 module (accepted enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/664#comment:2 ]
09:08 Hyppolit #809: 5.11.3 prereq of Padre and of some plugins (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/809 ]
09:21 Hyppolit svn: r9946 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9946
09:21 Hyppolit use two modules to remind the user to install them before smokking
09:21 Hyppolit trunk/tools/
09:29 Sewi joined #padre
09:29 Sewi Merry Xmas to everybody celebrating this, hi to everyone else :-)
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09:39 perlsyntax How do i install Padre by sourcecode?
09:40 yakudzo perl Makefile.PL && make && make install
09:40 perlsyntax tno cd the file
09:40 perlsyntax no
09:40 perlsyntax thanks
09:41 perlsyntax do i have to cd the file to do that?
09:41 yakudzo cd what file ?
09:42 perlsyntax ok
09:42 yakudzo perlsyntax: what file you downloaded?
09:42 perlsyntax it working
09:42 yakudzo ok
09:42 yakudzo goof
09:42 yakudzo good(:
09:43 perlsyntax i got a error
09:44 perlsyntax i did per Makefile.PL make and sudo make install
09:44 perlsyntax odd
09:44 yakudzo and ?
09:44 yakudzo perlsyntax: did you installed requirements ?
09:44 perlsyntax i not sure what to do..
09:45 perlsyntax i try install it from cpan before i did the sourcecode.
09:45 yakudzo perlsyntax: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download
09:45 perlsyntax where do i paste the error.
09:46 yakudzo topic ?
09:46 yakudzo http://scsys.co.uk:8001
09:46 perlsyntax http://scsys.co.uk:8001/37582
09:47 perlsyntax mmm
09:47 perlsyntax maybe i forgot something.
09:48 yakudzo perlsyntax: read installation documentation carefully. install wxGTK perl-Wx perl-Alien-wxWidgets first
09:48 perlsyntax ok thanks
09:48 yakudzo perlsyntax: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download here writen how to make it for almost all popular distros
09:49 perlsyntax i try install it for ubuntu 9.10 but it crash sometimes.
09:51 perlsyntax mmm
09:51 perlsyntax are they on cpan i need to download
09:51 yakudzo install latest version and if it crashes it would be better to tell where and how it's crushes
09:51 perlsyntax i want the new one.
09:52 szabgab perlsyntax, you can get the binary I built
09:52 perlsyntax where that:)
09:52 szabgab http://szabgab.com/blog/2009/12/1261601193.html
09:54 perlsyntax i don't see no padre.
09:54 perlsyntax or i see things.
09:54 szabgab I am adding instructions to the main download page
09:55 perlsyntax ok
09:55 perlsyntax i can't get backto sleep that my prob lol.
09:56 perlsyntax thanks
09:56 perlsyntax i useing perl5.10.0
09:58 perlsyntax not sure why cpan not installing new padre for.
10:00 Alias Works for me
10:00 perlsyntax any ideas about the cpan prob?
10:00 perlsyntax odd
10:00 Hyppolit svn: r9947 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9947
10:00 Hyppolit add link to stand alone linux package
10:00 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
10:00 Alias nopaste the error messages, maybe someone can help with that
10:06 Hyppolit svn: r9948 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9948
10:06 Hyppolit update the download page
10:06 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
10:13 Hyppolit svn: r9949 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9949
10:13 Hyppolit add previous version of Padre stand alone for linux to download page
10:13 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
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10:44 szabgab Ubuntu is getting worse by every release
10:45 szabgab X.org ate up all my CPU, I had to hard-reset my computer
11:00 yakudzo szabgab: moved from ubuntu to debian then to sabayon. feeling very happy (:
11:01 szabgab what is sabayon?
11:03 yakudzo szabgab: user friendly gentoo (:
11:05 szabgab oxymoron :)
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11:07 perlsyntax i got padre working.
11:07 perlsyntax :D
11:08 yakudzo szabgab: kde 4.3 by default, many packages and grate gentoo emerge all in one. And installation is gui not gentoo steps with a brik of manual\
11:09 szabgab yakudzo, one day I'll try it but I am to overcommitted now
11:10 kthakore szabgab: hi
11:10 kthakore szabgab: in your nightly can you have it not tar .svn folders?
11:11 szabgab let me check that
11:11 kthakore thanks
11:12 kthakore szabgab: also read uo on my convo with alias
11:12 kthakore szabgab: leaking threads on new debugger
11:12 kthakore szabgab: and happy holidays :) good job!
11:12 kthakore ttyl I gtg study
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14:51 Hyppolit svn: r9950 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9950
14:51 Hyppolit seo the web site of Padre
14:51 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/lib/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
14:54 Hyppolit svn: r9951 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9951
14:54 Hyppolit replace Padre::Debug by Padre::Logger
14:54 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Plugin/Plack/
14:54 szabgab patspam, see ^^^^
14:57 patspam szabgab++ # thanks
15:00 szabgab so far this is what stopped me from installing the plugin in the stand alone padre for Linux
15:01 szabgab so once you upload the new version I can include it
15:04 jq szabgab: btw, have you tried draklive?
15:04 szabgab not yet
15:04 szabgab I am doing some SEO now
15:05 szabgab and it would be nice to have a page in French as well
15:05 szabgab hint hint :-)
15:07 jq seo?
15:07 jq well, we are in family tonite & tomorrow, then i'm leaving saturday to my in-laws for a wekk
15:15 patspam joined #padre
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15:22 jq t/04-config.t fails
15:22 jq cf http://kenobi.mandriva.com/queue/failur​e/cooker/contrib/release/20091224150748​.jquelin.kenobi.17687/log/padre-0.530.0​-1mdv2010.1/build.0.20091224151044.log
15:22 jq in padre 0.53
15:23 patspam szabgab coolness!
15:23 patspam I'm trying to paste your name from the acknowledgements section of Padre.pm into Plack.pm
15:23 patspam (using padre)
15:23 patspam but the non-latin characters aren't displaying properly
15:23 patspam what's the trick?
15:25 patspam actually they are, they just dance if I select them with the mouse
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15:45 Hyppolit svn: r9952 | patspam++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9952
15:45 Hyppolit Padre::Plugin::Plack 0.03 release
15:45 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/lib/Padre/Plugin/Plack/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Plack/share/locale/
15:46 Hyppolit svn: r9953 | patspam++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9953
15:46 Hyppolit Updated my details
15:46 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/
15:46 patspam2 szabgab: new version of Padre::Plugin::Plack released
15:48 zamolxes joined #padre
15:55 szabgab patspam2, the utf-8 support in padre is broken
15:56 szabgab jq, seo, as in search engine optimization
15:57 szabgab in the case of languages just to have some reasonably large page written in all the major languages we support
15:58 szabgab jq, regarding the test failure, I guess that's what waxhead also saw - though I am not sure - and I told him to release without testing the no DISPLAY version
15:59 szabgab so we won't stop this release
15:59 szabgab we should now fix this
16:17 Hyppolit svn: r9954 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9954
16:17 Hyppolit remove an unnecessary die() call
16:17 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.​org/inc/Local/Padre/Website/
16:18 Hyppolit svn: r9955 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9955
16:18 Hyppolit add description to most of the web pages
16:18 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
16:29 cuco joined #padre
16:32 cuco hi all
16:32 cuco when the editor looses it's focus - how to regain it? besides clicking with the mouse?
16:32 cuco I expect "escape" to do this
16:38 cuco another question - where can i see the code of the text editor? I am interested in "learning how it works"
16:45 cuco joined #padre
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17:36 Hyppolit svn: r9956 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9956
17:36 Hyppolit remove duplicate default language entry that was added during the move to actions
17:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
18:29 Hyppolit svn: r9957 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9957
18:29 Hyppolit updating some of the Hebrew translation
18:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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19:39 kthakore hi
19:39 kthakore marry christmas!!!
19:39 kthakore happy holidays
19:42 Getty merry christmas, to you, too :)
19:43 kthakore Getty: Happy holidays!
19:43 Getty what is this? holidays?
19:43 Getty never heard that term
19:43 Getty explain it!!!
19:43 kthakore ok ...
19:43 Getty sounds like an interesting technology
19:44 kthakore Getty: hush now trolling is for after Jan 1st
19:44 Getty lol
19:44 Getty you suggest a coder has "holidays"
19:44 Getty :-P
19:44 kthakore :p
19:44 Getty i go back to work at 26. or 27.
19:44 kthakore hacker has holidays
19:44 kthakore me too
19:45 Getty then you arent really into the job ;) <run>
19:45 kthakore Getty: huh? I only get tommorow off and the weekend
20:02 perlsyntax joined #padre
20:02 perlsyntax Is there a howto for padre?
20:02 perlsyntax :)
20:02 submersible joined #padre
20:04 szabgab perlsyntax, the best we have is this http://padre.perlide.org/howto.html
20:04 kthakore szabgab: happy holidays!!
20:04 szabgab we have finished our batch of holidays
20:05 szabgab but thanks anyway
20:05 szabgab and you too
20:09 perlsyntax :) thanks
20:09 Getty perlsyntax: but installation is done and it startsup? ;)
20:09 perlsyntax i think i going to like padre:)
20:10 Getty you must like padre
20:10 Getty you cant say anything else here
20:10 Getty its not allowed
20:10 perlsyntax yes the install is done and it start up
20:10 Getty wonderful ok
20:10 perlsyntax what does the  module list do in padre?
20:11 perlsyntax Does show what is installed?
20:11 Getty it shows the modules :D
20:11 Getty yes, you can activate deactivate there
20:11 perlsyntax coolhow do i do that
20:11 Getty click?
20:11 Getty ;)
20:13 perlsyntax :)
20:13 Getty hey its a GUI!
20:13 Getty ;)
20:14 Getty but hey, to be honest, Padre is in buildup, so the guys are totally open for stuff that needs to get in
20:14 Getty or stuff that is "bad implemented"
20:14 perlsyntax cool
20:14 Getty yeah
20:14 kthakore huh
20:14 Getty best is, that you make a trac account right now, and then add feature requests bugs when you found them
20:15 perlsyntax i found a tool call module tool is that toollook up all the one you have installed?
20:15 perlsyntax cool
20:15 Getty szabgab: btw... still the botchange open ;) i would also implement "activating trac registration" then next
20:15 Getty perlsyntax: no idea, i dont know much about specific modules, right now using padre very low level ;)
20:16 perlsyntax i see
20:17 Getty i'm at all not a total padre crack ;) but padre is what you want
20:20 perlsyntax :)
20:20 Getty pfff leaving dudes! i hate them ;)
20:21 kthakore ok
20:22 kthakore Getty: I wanna see some of your code
20:22 kthakore now
20:23 Getty lol why? ;)
20:26 Getty dont know what i could give you right now... mhmhm... my MCSScan project for example
20:29 Getty kthakore: http://www.cubestats.net/f​iles/MCSScan-0.2.1.tar.gz
20:30 pece joined #padre
20:31 kthakore yay!
20:32 kthakore Getty: is it perl\/\
20:32 Getty yes
20:32 kthakore ?
20:32 kthakore nice
20:32 kthakore Getty: well the reason I asked for your code is because you seem to talk a lot but I have yet to see your code
20:33 kthakore Getty: I judge ppl based on code nya?
20:33 kthakore Getty: Resolving cubestats.net... failed: Name or service not known.
20:33 kthakore wget: unable to resolve host address `cubestats.net'
20:34 kthakore got it
20:34 Getty ok
20:34 Getty ;)
20:35 Getty i did much "other stuff" before i started with perl, so i know how to handle stuff, but i'm not sure if someone really wants my perl code so far
20:35 Getty mostly i try to help where i really can
20:35 Getty and increase my own knowledge
20:38 Getty also i must mention that i'm a very high sugar junky, that means that most people dislike my ways i target on ;)
20:40 kthakore garu: okie
20:40 kthakore Getty: okie
20:40 kthakore Getty: what does this MCSScan do?
20:41 Getty its for a distributed mass-scan client of the monopoly city streets webgame by hasbro (which is closed now)
20:43 Getty it connects to my masterserver and requests the next "package" which it has to scan
20:43 Getty it was distributed as complete vmware image mostly for my helpers who just started the image
20:43 Getty but others wanted to run it on their regular system
20:44 kthakore oooh nice
20:45 kthakore I used to play MCS!
20:45 Getty what you say about code?
20:45 kthakore reading it now
20:45 Getty lol you read bestcheater.wordpress.com?
20:45 kthakore better then my perl code  so far
20:45 kthakore no why?
20:45 Getty the block of the bestcheater who was top on the list?
20:45 Getty blog
20:45 kthakore ah
20:46 Getty i was co-writer there
20:46 kthakore ah ok
20:46 Getty giving free streets out to the people
20:46 Getty over 20.000 i gave to the community
20:46 kthakore 20?
20:46 kthakore not a lot
20:46 Getty 20.000?
20:46 Getty totally we found 8 million streets
20:46 Getty but most stuff is under 1M
20:47 Getty and you know streets under 1M are worthless
20:51 kthakore yup
20:51 kthakore my cuzin played it more then me\
20:51 Getty i actually was btw owner of the biggest street in complete MCS
20:51 kthakore I gave it a shot but it was pporing
20:51 kthakore bboring
20:51 Getty actually it was free for over 2 months of the gametime
20:51 kthakore cool
20:51 Getty 6.9 Billion in value
20:52 Getty it was so big that the MCS system wasnt able to give cones out for the requests
20:52 Getty so "regular" you was unable to harm it (or use it)
20:57 Getty kthakore: so? what you say about the code?
21:00 Hyppolit svn: r9958 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9958
21:00 Hyppolit remove newline from text to be translated
21:00 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/
21:00 Hyppolit svn: r9959 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9959
21:00 Hyppolit some Hungarian translation
21:00 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
21:09 Hyppolit svn: r9960 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9960
21:09 Hyppolit some Hungarian translation 37%
21:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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22:13 kthakore Getty: sorry got distracted will try it in t
22:13 kthakore FG
22:13 kthakore Getty: HO
22:13 kthakore ahh
22:14 kthakore Getty:How do I get the server?
22:14 Getty aehm
22:14 Getty i would need to package it up and search for secret pws in it and stuff
22:14 kthakore msg me I have to go get chicken for dinner
22:14 Getty it wouldnt work at all without the DB whic is fucked up, the server is no proud
22:14 kthakore brb
22:15 kthakore ll
22:15 Getty you can see the code, what you need else? ;)
22:15 kthakore kk np\
22:15 kthakore um ... I am not a compiler or interpeter of perl code\
22:15 kthakore A
22:15 kthakore So send me something I f
22:15 kthakore can d
22:15 kthakore I can run
22:16 kthakore &
22:37 Hyppolit svn: r9961 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9961
22:37 Hyppolit add Google Analytics code
22:37 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/lib/
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22:53 Hyppolit svn: r9962 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9962
22:53 Hyppolit add Google Analytics
22:53 Hyppolit trunk/perlide.org/ trunk/perlide.org/poll200910/ trunk/perlide.org/poll200911/
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