Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2009-12-28

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Time Nick Message
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08:53 Sewi Hi
09:02 Hyppolit svn: r9997 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9997
09:02 Hyppolit Fix menu item typo
09:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
09:03 szabgab rehi Sewi
09:03 Sewi Sorry, I went completly off the computer for the christmas days...
09:03 szabgab could you please check if the the Git plugin works from SVN ?
09:04 Sewi You replaced many Wx::gettexts?
09:04 szabgab that too
09:04 Sewi May I continue?
09:04 szabgab but I changed the Git plugin to us actions
09:04 szabgab in general yes, you could go on replacing gettext by _T
09:05 Sewi But _T doesn't seem to show translated texts here, is this known?
09:06 Sewi Git plugin failed: No git installed :-) Changing this...
09:08 Sewi Package "git" for ubuntu isn't git?
09:08 szabgab I think not
09:08 szabgab git-core
09:08 szabgab I think
09:09 szabgab but which string is not shown in translation
09:09 Sewi thanks
09:09 szabgab ?
09:10 Sewi The menu items (the top-level texts are shown translated), for example. Dialoges which were updated and things like this.
09:10 szabgab maybe the po files need to be rebuilt?
09:11 Sewi I ran update_pot_file and poedit, but no change
09:12 Sewi While trying to do a "status" -> "file" on dev.pl: Popup "fatal: not a git repository"
09:13 szabgab wow, could you check http://padre.perlide.org/ ? the upper part of the screen is sort of gray and I cannot click on links
09:14 Sewi Works fine here.
09:14 * szabgab restarting ff
09:14 Hyppolit svn: r9998 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9998
09:14 Hyppolit Updated messages.pot
09:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
09:14 Sewi Using Opera@ubuntu
09:15 szabgab strange, it is still that way
09:15 Sewi My win Opera currently shows "File corrupted - please run chkdsk" :-(
09:16 Hyppolit svn: r9999 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9999
09:16 Hyppolit Converted more gettexts to _T
09:16 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/Preferences/
09:16 szabgab btw are you around Hannover ? or have I already asked you?
09:16 szabgab so wait,
09:16 Sewi yes.
09:16 szabgab does this mean rebuilding messages.pot helped?
09:16 szabgab great then, any chance you come to CeBit standing at the Perl booth?
09:16 Sewi No, it didn't help, but I'll look at the _T later.
09:17 Sewi Sure.
09:17 Sewi Would be great!
09:17 Sewi Sorry, need to go to my daughter for a moment, will be back soon.
09:17 szabgab we have a booth, now we are trying to get organized
09:17 szabgab http://reneeb-perlblog.blogspot.​com/2009/12/perlcebit-2010.html
09:19 Hyppolit svn: r10000 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10000
09:19 Hyppolit Perl tidy
09:19 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/PPI/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/Preferences/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/share/locale/
09:21 szabgab Sewi, congrats for the 10.000s commit :-)
09:21 szabgab I would not run aheadt with the _T conversion before finding out that it really works
09:22 szabgab now that you pointed out that it might not work as expected
09:24 Getty and it was a real useful submit eh? ;)
09:28 szabgab every commit borns equal
09:29 Getty the one that cleanup stuff are more useful (you must animate the people to make also cleanup work instead of just cool code! ;) )
09:30 Getty but still, you avoid testing my Hyppolit changes, eh? ;)
09:31 * szabgab hides
09:31 Getty oh, you organize that with CeBIT? if you need any help tell me
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09:31 Sewi Getty: 000'er commits are usually tidys :-)
09:31 Getty actually i know a dude, who isnt a coder, more marketing stuff but likes to support opensource, he can give you a professional connect
09:32 Getty (he supports already OpenRheinRuhr, a pure opensource event for the Ruhrgebiet)
09:32 Sewi szabgab: Do you already got other people for the booth? :-)
09:33 szabgab Renee is going to be there
09:33 szabgab part of the time
09:33 szabgab but that's all now I think
09:33 Sewi Getty: What about you?
09:34 Getty i must, eh?
09:34 Getty i mean i can organize it
09:34 Getty not a big problem
09:34 Getty beside local organization (we need sleeping places, which is hard for cebit time)
09:35 Getty Sewi: and you?
09:35 Getty now you come again with your children and family and shit, eh? ;)
09:35 Getty see! profanity check missing
09:36 Sewi I already accepted the invitation and will be there - if szabgab still wants me in March :-)
09:36 Getty so we make a small Padre Meeting there, too? eh? ;)
09:36 Getty I bring the w**d lol
09:37 Getty so ok, count me in
09:37 Getty i will make it on company calendar
09:38 Getty and so that i get the time
09:38 Getty my boss will kill me
09:38 Getty 2 man company and i go cebit ;)
09:38 Getty hehe
09:38 Sewi Tell him you do it for the company :-)
09:38 Getty szabgab: do you got some ML or something where you want my email on?
09:38 Getty Sewi: he isnt a standard boss ;)
09:38 Getty BAEH!!!
09:38 Sewi_Ubuntu Getty: me2
09:38 Getty ubuntu...
09:38 * Getty runes
09:39 Getty runs
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09:39 szabgab register to the mailng list on http://www.perlfoundation.​org/perl5/index.cgi?events
09:40 szabgab and I am creating a list of people on that page so people can add their names
09:41 Getty baeh openid...
09:41 Getty i need a joint before i check on this...
09:41 Getty i still dont have a decent openid
09:41 Getty (i wanted to be an OpenID provider for around 10-20 times and never made it really)
09:42 Getty bbl
09:43 szabgab Getty, http://blog.woobling.org/200​9/05/your-openid-sucks.html
09:44 szabgab added list of people at the bottom of the page for now
09:45 Sewi We should really create a Padre world map - with dots for developers and let users register themselfs for dots :-)
09:46 szabgab for now ohloh is there
09:47 Sewi szabgab: Util.pm: _T is just a "shift" for me, is this supposted to be?
09:48 szabgab it should be a noop
09:48 szabgab yes
09:48 szabgab well, almost noop
09:48 Sewi But... how should it replace gettext if it doesn't do anything?
09:49 szabgab gettext does not do anything either - as far as I understood
09:49 szabgab it is just the string that tools are looking for
09:50 Sewi Just replaced it by return Wx::gettext(shift); and running make test now...
09:52 szabgab that should not be necessary
09:52 szabgab let's go back to a revision 2 days ago and see if we already had entries with _T or not
09:54 Sewi Wx::gettext is \&Wx::GetTranslation; here (in Wx/Locale.pm)
09:55 szabgab lib/Padre/Locale.pm  had _T() for a long time
09:55 szabgab r9800 already has them
09:55 Hyppolit Changeset #9800 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/9800
09:56 Getty is there a technical break for using the standard _ or is it just project choice?
09:56 szabgab oh but then they are ran thorugh gettext again I think
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09:56 szabgab I think it is not our choice
09:56 Getty mh ok
09:56 szabgab it is the "acceptted" way to indicate  a string to translate
09:57 Sewi szabgab: I'm not sure that _T worked there...
09:57 Getty i just can tell around perl, cause there its preffered to be _
09:57 Getty (not inside perl)
09:57 Getty i mean that function has no other useful sense hehe ;)
09:59 Sewi Getty: There are nearly no exported functions, _T became a very important function for all Padre modules. It should have some special name which doesn't collide with other module-internal function names.
09:59 Sewi And _T is a short name :-)
10:00 szabgab now reading the comment before the sub _T in Padre::Util I wonder if I screwed the whole thing or not
10:00 szabgab maybe this means now padre needs to be restarted to switch language?
10:00 Getty yeah understandable, just its strange that perl doesnt go with the shortest way, cause in other languages, everybody avoids the "_" function to have it defineable for language function
10:01 Sewi _ is part of \w
10:01 Getty and just for the protocol, i dont like gettext ;)
10:01 Getty Sewi: oh, and? what does that mean?
10:01 Sewi me too
10:02 Getty gettext is the worst implementation of language translation ever
10:02 Sewi and I did a better solution for another project some years ago - but still need to refactor it to be CPAN-standard :-)
10:02 Getty there are good solutions in CPAN
10:02 Getty which are using gettext for example as "helper", but generally they fix the problems of gettext
10:03 Sewi Like "translators don't know what they are translating"?
10:03 Getty that is not the biggest
10:03 Getty if you talk about the problems with this ;)
10:04 Getty the not order changing problem and the no default language problem are the biggest
10:05 Getty (its like sprintf, you cant change the orders of the flexible parts, which is known to be a problem in several languages)
10:05 szabgab Sewi, so I don't understand now
10:05 szabgab some of the menu items change language but others not
10:05 Getty if the gettext isnt found he gives back the original?
10:06 szabgab specifically I think the ones coming from the Actions are not translated
10:06 Getty probably a new char that has come into the text?
10:06 szabgab while the direct ones are, oh probably becasue they were left as Wx::gettext ?
10:06 Getty would irritate gettext to find the right one
10:06 Sewi szabgab: The Menubar items (File, Edit, View) are translated, everything else not.
10:07 szabgab the    Ansich/Schiftgrose
10:07 szabgab schriftgrose
10:07 Getty Ansicht Schriftgröße
10:07 szabgab whatever
10:07 Sewi I'm sure they're still using gettext
10:07 szabgab crap
10:07 Getty rgrep "Wx::gettext" ?
10:08 Hyppolit svn: r10001 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10001
10:08 Hyppolit Temporary workaround for the _T translate problem
10:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
10:08 Sewi This works, but triggers a warning and a badcode error for using Wx
10:09 Hyppolit svn: r10002 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10002
10:09 Hyppolit Removed the warning from t/14-warnings
10:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
10:26 szabgab Sewi, it does not look good
10:27 szabgab I am worried that I totally misundertood the use of _T()
10:27 szabgab and I will need to revert all of my changes
10:27 szabgab I think Alias understands this
10:28 szabgab but he is not around now
10:29 szabgab so let's revert the last two changes and wait till he comes online and either explains how to do this or spanks me on the head for making this stupid change
10:29 Sewi szabgab: Don't revert the changes, talk to him first.
10:30 szabgab but now the tests fail, right?
10:30 Sewi Using Padre-wide _T would be better than gettext. We could replace the translation module by just changing _T in future.
10:31 Sewi The only failing test is badcode which complains that Wx is being used in Util.pm.
10:31 Getty i get crazy
10:31 szabgab then Util can be added to the exception list
10:31 Sewi We could either allow this or add a Padre::Wx::gettext_wrapper which is used by Util
10:31 Getty its totally impossible to find out what i have to "delegate" to let it point to my google.com openid account
10:31 Getty i totally dont get it
10:31 Getty the only (!!!) webpage i found with the "so called" right urls, is just wrong
10:32 szabgab Getty, openid?
10:32 Sewi I kept the error as reminder that we need to get a decision on an final solution.
10:33 Getty yeah
10:33 szabgab either set it as a TODO test or fix it, having a failing test just teaches people not to trust the tests
10:33 Getty i want to use the stuff of nothingmuch's blog
10:33 Getty and cant find the right URL i have to use for my google openid
10:33 szabgab I set it up on szabgab.com
10:33 szabgab oh, does google have an openid?
10:33 Getty yeah
10:33 Getty every google account also has an openid
10:34 Getty i never used it
10:34 Getty but that is the only account i have which is bound to an openid... or wait..
10:34 Getty i could use my yahoo account ...
10:37 Getty i get crazy.. really...
10:41 Getty => Google does not support delegation. If you search the Google Group there are several threads, but they all reach the same conclusion: it's not supported at this time.
10:51 waxhead tests fail here now
10:52 Hyppolit svn: r10003 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10003
10:52 Hyppolit move the submenu from actions generation code to the Menu module
10:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
10:52 Hyppolit svn: r10004 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10004
10:52 Hyppolit remove unnecessary eval block
10:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
10:52 Hyppolit svn: r10005 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10005
10:52 Hyppolit remove topmenu that was made unnecessary by moving the code to Padre::Wx::Menu
10:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
10:53 szabgab I'll fix that test
10:54 szabgab but before any realeas we  have to make sure I have not screwed up the whole translation and language switching thing
10:54 szabgab or at least that it works reasonable
10:54 szabgab y
10:54 Getty or somehow
10:54 Getty ;)
10:56 szabgab btw something is borked with the tests
10:57 szabgab thet are using code in lib/  not in blib
10:57 szabgab and for some reason it also tries to load the Git plugin
10:57 Getty i also do this, is this wrong?
10:57 Getty it got the advantage that it works without any install procedure (so good while developing)
10:58 szabgab and if you make some changes during the install process then you are borked :-)
10:58 Getty true, but show me the case ;) i dont know how to modify the code while the install procedure
10:58 Getty (and cant think of an so evil case)
11:00 Getty szabgab: ok, i'm registered
11:00 waxhead there won't be a release for a while yet... maybe close to new years as a final for 2009?  :)
11:01 waxhead of course any breakage must be sorted out before hand.. :)
11:01 * waxhead has been way too busy getting his myth box sorted out....
11:01 waxhead oh and general house sorting out chores..
11:01 waxhead .au has also had some decent rain, the vegie garden is looking prett good
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11:06 Getty szabgab: should i add myself and Sewi directly to the CeBIT event list down under?
11:07 szabgab yes please
11:07 szabgab now I have  a problem
11:07 szabgab I am using git-svn, made a change and I was in the middle of a dcommit when my internet connection went down
11:07 szabgab git thinks everything is up to date,
11:08 szabgab but the commit has not reached the svn server
11:08 Hyppolit svn: r10006 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10006
11:08 Hyppolit TODO Padre::Util badcode
11:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/xt/
11:08 szabgab oh, wait, it did see that I have not pushed it out
11:08 Getty Sewi: we must organize sleeping location then, i guess you are also then there the complete time?
11:09 szabgab personally I'd also like to organize a perl trainnig the week before or after
11:09 szabgab 4 days
11:09 szabgab either there or in a near-by city
11:09 Sewi Getty: I life ~20km north of hannover and will sleep at home :-)
11:10 Getty Sewi: so you give me a sleep place for the time? wonderful!
11:10 szabgab Sewi,  usally your English is better than mine but this one bugs me  (  "I live"  not "I life" )
11:10 Getty szabgab: common german mistake ;)
11:11 Getty szabgab: we use the word "live" also in german (for live action, live transfer, whatever), so its double mixup we have to handle ;)
11:12 Getty oh btw
11:12 Sewi szabgab: Your English is clearly better than mine :-)
11:12 Getty i could make padre stickers and t-shirts probably
11:12 Getty even tho t-shirts would be a bit hard (just by the money)
11:12 Getty but stickers shouldnt be a problem i think
11:13 Getty i anyway can print any paper material what we need before and bring it to location
11:13 Getty Sewi: was that a "yes ok" now?
11:14 Sewi I think I could get you a sleeping location for the cebit
11:15 Getty szabgab: how you say 4 days? any limitation for the booth? for me the 5 days in complete are best
11:15 Getty Sewi: not at your home? would make it easier for together driving :-P
11:15 Getty Sewi: ha, you just dont want a l33t crackcoder in your house, eh? ;)
11:16 Sewi Getty: 2km away - at my parents home. Maybe also here, but we don't have that much space :-(
11:16 Getty ah ok, then find something, probably you know a "smoking" friend, he will take me with pleasure
11:16 Getty (as in, he doesnt have supply problems while i'm there)
11:19 Sewi szabgab: Wx/Menu/File.pm still uses gettext for it's visible name - this is why translation worked there.
11:20 submersible szabgab: ping
11:35 szabgab pong
11:35 Getty aehm, who is responsible for perl.com ?!
11:35 Getty the source distribution download link goes into empty
11:35 Getty its just a wrong url (5.10.0.tar.gz instead of 5.10.1.tar.gz which would work)
11:35 szabgab Getty, just don't let anyone get worked up on perl.com
11:36 submersible szabgab: I have some website edits ..
11:36 szabgab it is unmaintained by O'Reilly
11:36 Getty ah ok
11:36 szabgab submersible, content or script?
11:36 submersible szabgab: but untested in most browsers..
11:36 Getty its sadly the first hit on "download perl" ;)
11:36 submersible szabgab: mostly layout and stylin
11:37 szabgab submersible, then go ahead and commit,
11:38 Hyppolit svn: r10007 | submersible_toaster++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10007
11:38 Hyppolit style and layout changes to website
11:38 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlid​e.org/documentroot/static/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/lib/ trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/tt/pages/
11:38 submersible I _hope_ that is considered an improvement.
11:39 Getty is it instantly active?
11:39 Getty mmhhh...
11:39 Getty its better but still the menu problem is a bit annoying
11:39 submersible define menu problem?
11:40 Getty that its 2 lines?
11:40 submersible well that is more of an information architecture problem right... there are too may nav options :)
11:41 submersible I suppose they can go vertical if we want to keep all those pages in nav
11:41 Getty i would instantly suggest something how to combine them, we just need the allow ;)
11:42 submersible sorry - I don't follow you
11:42 submersible can you re-phrase ?
11:42 Getty how we could combine the menu points
11:42 Getty making menu points with dropdowns
11:42 Getty so that like there is "Team" and under it: Developers, Translators, Getting Involved
11:43 submersible yes exactly - i agree
11:45 Getty Team itself will get a blabla page with just links to the subpages
11:45 submersible I also plan to read over some of the text content and rewrite some of it
11:45 Getty Then About would get a point where there is under: Blogs, Screenshots
11:46 Getty Download and Support and Documentation must stay as is
11:46 Getty and if we got that, then its already 1 line
11:46 submersible Documentation is a rather pointless effort right now... either we point at the cpan or just not bother
11:46 submersible IMHO
11:52 Getty just let it be
11:52 Getty reminds the others that it has to get done
11:52 Getty somehow
11:52 Getty or just generate pages out of the pod
11:52 Getty i dont think that is "new"
11:53 submersible i think they are generated w/ pod but not wrapped in the site template...
11:53 Getty yeah
11:53 submersible anyhow - sleep for me...anticipate website tickets tomorrow
11:58 Getty ok trying to install padre now via own perl
11:58 Getty <crossingfingers>
11:59 Getty adre requires a perl built using threads
12:00 Getty P
12:08 Getty i have no idea... i added the define -Duseithreads
12:08 Getty but a grep of the result
12:08 Getty doesnt show me that he really uses it
12:12 Getty If someone is interested: that is what Padre requires on an "empty perl 5.10" ;) http://paste.debian.net/55061/
12:13 szabgab that is taken from Makefile.PL
12:15 Getty the requirements of the requirements are always the biggest dirt ;) hehe whatever, so far all running fine
12:15 Getty wxWidgets doesnt made an error as far as i see (which was the problem child)
12:17 Getty so far, all straight forward easy, installed perl 5.10.1 and cpan Padre after adding paths
12:18 Getty we should suggest this to the debian people
12:18 Getty i could prepare a small shellscript which makes it all in one flow, the user just needs to hit enter on some returns of the module installations
12:19 Getty even tho would be cool to know how to avoid them
12:19 Sewi Write a wiki page about this
12:19 Getty when it works i will make one this night
12:19 Getty (first i will actually USE the padre to make some actual work...)
12:26 Getty padre tests failing!
12:26 Getty it totally need the RANDR Xlib extension, eh?
12:29 Sewi This is usually a X server warning, nothing important for X-server users
12:31 Getty it let all test fail
12:31 Getty on WX widgets every test was run 2 times, one time without RANDR error one time with
12:31 Getty but even the RANDR error tests was noticed as "success"
12:31 Getty on Padre i get just tons of:
12:31 Getty #   Failed test 'STDERR of Padre.pm'
12:31 Getty #   at t/00-compile.t line 41.
12:31 Getty #          got: 'Xlib:  extension "RANDR" missing on display ":0.0".
12:31 Getty # '
12:31 Getty #     expected: ''
12:31 Getty (sorry)
12:32 Getty so the warning destroys the tests
12:34 Getty lol ok, i will always get that error
12:34 Getty Xinerama or RANDR
12:34 Getty so technical i can never install Padre!!! <sniff>
12:35 Getty i make a force install for now
12:35 Sewi Yes, and then update the tests, please
12:35 Sewi Try "DISPLAY= make test" (space between = and make)
12:35 Getty baeh, now i get again that wxwidgets problems...
12:36 * Getty cries
12:37 Sewi Ich nehm Dich jetzt aber nicht auf den Arm und trag Dich rum... :-)
12:37 Getty ol
12:37 Getty lol
12:37 Getty ne
12:37 Getty ich muss glaub ich PERL5LIB setzen
12:38 Getty nope same error.....
12:40 Getty oh no... i think... Wx package uses the wxlib it founds on the local system
12:40 Getty and this one is 2.8.7
12:40 Getty and this one is bad
12:40 Getty yes definitly it uses this...
12:40 Getty shouldnt Alien::wxWidgets install the newest for him? that he can use this?..
12:40 Getty oh man that all drives me crazy...
12:42 Getty this is all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrmPehlHK3w
12:53 * Getty starts gedit...
12:57 szabgab why not try running the build script in XL ?
12:58 szabgab if that fails I can help fixing it
13:00 Getty oh there is one inside? then i will check on this
13:00 Getty which?
13:01 Getty i got this: perl-5.10.1-xl-0.03
13:06 szabgab that is the result of the build script
13:06 szabgab I built that on Ubuntu 8.04
13:07 szabgab but you can also try to build it on your system,
13:07 szabgab the build script is in our repository
13:08 Getty oh ok
13:08 Getty then i checkout this
13:08 Getty svn?
13:08 Hyppolit svn is http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download#​Moredetailedinstructionformanualinstallation
13:10 Getty ours later
13:10 Getty hours i mean ;)
13:12 Getty next time: dont checkout the tags...
13:14 Getty szabgab: ok got it, so just perl Makefile.PL & co. for Perl-Dist-XL?
13:14 Getty or what exactly?
13:15 Getty oookk... mhmhmhmhm....
13:15 Getty first cleanup all the mess i did before lol, then reinstall local::lib, and then install there Perl-Dist-XL, and then make a perldist_xl --somethingwhatiseethen
13:26 Getty szabgab: perldist_xl.pl --perl stable --build all --download --dir ~/perl ?
13:52 Hyppolit #624: cannot type in empty document (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/624#comment:2 ]
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16:01 Hyppolit #736: Function list is incorrect (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/736#comment:2 ]
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16:12 szabgab Getty, I am not sure about the --dir flag
16:12 szabgab but more or less the last command should do it
16:12 Getty system: /home/tr/perl/perl-5.10.1-xl-0.03/perl//bin/perl /home/tr/perl/perl-5.10.1-x​l-0.03/perl//bin/mycpan.pl Capture::Tiny
16:12 Getty sh: /home/tr/perl/perl-5.10.1-xl-0.03/perl//bin/perl: No such file or directory
16:13 Getty mh thats actually aehm...
16:13 Getty why he wants to use perl for the cpan modules if there is no perl installed before?
16:14 Getty ah.. he doesnt like multiply build?
16:14 Getty cause i did this now finally:
16:14 Getty perldist_xl.pl --perl stable --build perl --build minstall --build padre --download --dir ~/perl --verbose
16:15 szabgab I am not sure if you can run it in one step
16:15 szabgab I have not tried that yet
16:15 szabgab I do   --perl stable --download
16:15 szabgab then
16:15 szabgab --perl stable --build perl
16:15 szabgab --perl stable --build cpan
16:15 szabgab etc
16:16 Getty ok i do this now
16:16 szabgab I have not reached the point to make it really usable by others as I am still trying to understand this
16:16 Getty rgr
16:16 szabgab the --download will actually pull a minicpan
16:16 Getty which takes HOURS
16:16 szabgab almost 1 Gb
16:16 szabgab yes
16:17 szabgab maybe it should have an option to just use a remote CPAN
16:17 Getty are you going todo massive changes to it in the next time?
16:17 szabgab I am constantly doing massive changes
16:17 Getty ok
16:18 Getty i would take a peek and see what i would need to change to make it more easy for "others"
16:23 szabgab ok
16:24 Getty i think target is clear, i mean i got the case for myself, make it so that a moron can get its own userspace perl with cpan modules and stuff he needs for padre and co. ;)
16:24 Getty i will warn you here, if i start doing anything (dont know when i want to look into it) anyway
16:36 szabgab oh, just please don't change that code for now
16:36 szabgab just let me know your opinion on how it should be used
16:36 szabgab how *you* would like to use it
16:57 Getty i would like todo ./perldist_xl.pl without anything and get an installation of stable perl in ~/perl which predownloads as less as possible and fetches the stuff remote
16:57 Getty ./perldist_xl.pl --additional padre would install padre or --build
16:57 Getty just my 2 cent ;)
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17:00 Alias Yo
17:02 Alias Whoa! 10,000 commits!
17:05 Hyppolit svn: r10008 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10008
17:05 Hyppolit minor typo fixes
17:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
17:06 Sewi Alias: How much commits on your svn?
17:07 Alias 10,620
17:07 Hyppolit svn: r10009 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10009
17:07 Hyppolit updated messages file
17:07 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
17:07 Alias You'd slowly catching up
17:07 Alias You're
17:08 Hyppolit svn: r10010 | garu++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10010
17:08 Hyppolit updated brazilian portuguese translation
17:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
17:10 szabgab Alias, please check the backlog
17:10 szabgab especially the _T issue
17:10 szabgab I might have totally misunderstood it
17:10 Alias There's a _T issue?
17:10 Alias Backlog URL?
17:10 szabgab and replaced all the Wx::gettext calls by _T
17:10 Alias oh dear
17:10 szabgab http://irclog.perlgeek.de/padre/today
17:11 Alias Did you read the huge IRC post in the _T code?
17:11 Alias That explains what it's for?
17:11 szabgab after I changed it :-)
17:11 szabgab and actually even after that I did not understand
17:11 szabgab I need plain instructions : use Wx::gettext here, _T there
17:12 Alias _T(english) -> GUI Objects -> (translation) -> User
17:12 Alias Wx::gettext(english) -> GUI Objects -> User
17:12 szabgab I have not understoot what is the differernce between thelist  of languages and any other text item
17:12 Alias _T() is for text that NEEDS to have it's translation delayed, because it won't be able to be reset between language changes
17:14 szabgab can you give an example that needs it and one that does not?
17:14 Alias So if you are creating a temporary dialog box
17:14 Alias Like the Find dialog
17:14 Alias In the constructor you'd use Wx::gettext("Find")
17:15 Alias Because we're just going to throw away that dialog
17:15 Alias And if you change from Hebrew to Hungarian, when you make the Find dialog again, you'll get a new Wx::gettext('Find')
17:15 Alias And so it should just work
17:16 Alias Alternatively,  you could have something like the AUI labels
17:16 Alias Where the string comes from one place
17:17 Alias And you're going to hold the string in the GUI structure
17:17 Alias $aui_panel->{title} = _T('Tools')
17:17 Alias You can't destroy the entire AUI panel
17:17 Alias So you hold the title in English
17:18 Alias And then when you do a relocale you $aui_panel->SetTitle(Wx::ge​ttext($aui_panel->{title}))
17:18 Alias Now, if you just did Wx::gettext($variable) then the string would never show up in the translation programs
17:18 Alias That look for Wx::gettext(...)
17:18 szabgab oh so then you call gettext on the output of _T()
17:18 Alias right
17:19 Alias Some time in the future
17:19 Alias The string _T() is supported by the translation software
17:19 Alias IT will treat it the same as Wx::gettext(...)
17:19 Alias But for US, we use _T() as a silent pass-through
17:19 Alias Because it's going to be translated as a variable later
17:20 Sewi What about using a global gettext wrapper to make replacing the ugly gettext easier in the future?
17:20 Alias Sewi: What do you mean?
17:20 szabgab so what is the effect now that we replaced many gettext calls by _T and added         Wx::gettext(shift)  in _T ?
17:20 Alias uh
17:20 Alias You're going to double-translate a ton of string
17:21 Alias Which is expensive, but should accidentally work
17:21 Alias Because the double-translated version won't exist in the dictionary
17:21 szabgab only those that were using _T earlier, right?
17:21 Alias The bigger problem is that every single _T thing won't change languages
17:22 Alias If you change languages, it's going to be stuck as the first language that was used when you started Padre
17:22 Alias If you start up in English, it may accidentally work anyway
17:22 Alias But that change you made is almost certainly wrong
17:22 Alias Probably need to revert it
17:23 szabgab so which word should I check for this?
17:23 Alias Turn off Lock Interface
17:23 Alias My guess would be the labels on the detachable AUI panels will be one that breaks
17:24 Alias Start up Padre in one non-English language, and switch to another one
17:24 Alias Regardless though, it's going to cause problems
17:24 Alias The double translation will be bizarre
17:25 szabgab started with german,  switched to French
17:25 szabgab I still don't understand a word from the menus
17:25 szabgab but they look different
17:25 Alias Not sure what you mean
17:25 Alias The names of the languages are delayed translation too I think
17:25 szabgab it seems that everything change translation
17:26 szabgab I don't understand it
17:27 Alias If you don't understand it, why did you change it? :)
17:27 szabgab anyway, I'll go over the changes and revert them in the next 1-2 hours
17:27 szabgab I thought I understand
17:28 Alias hrm, it DOES seem to work
17:28 szabgab but in the meantime I think I found a strange issue with the plugins, it seems the plugin menus are created 4 times during start-up, I still have to confirm it though
17:28 Alias weird
17:28 Alias ok, I see these bugs
17:29 szabgab and then they are called many more times during simple running
17:29 Alias Startup in French, switch to English
17:29 Alias And I still see "Outils projet"
17:29 Alias "Outils document"
17:29 Alias "Sortie
17:29 Alias etc
17:30 szabgab ok, so I'll go to have dinner now and then revert my gettext to _T changes
17:31 Alias Thanks
17:31 szabgab btw I added open selection to the right click
17:32 szabgab and if you have time you could take a look at the experimental way I setup to allow plugins to use actions
17:32 szabgab the git plugin uses them now
17:32 szabgab dinner &
17:32 Alias OK
17:35 Alias If you want the _T thing because it's shorter, then we just need to find an alternative function name for the current delayed-translation _T usages
17:36 Alias And one that the translation tools are able to recognise
18:02 szabgab what I wanted is to be able to have better separation between the modules that depend on Wx and those that don't
18:07 garu szabgab, hmmm... now that we have a cool-and-working Perl::Dist::Padre, can we burn the shipwright project?
18:13 Sewi A gettext alternative would be good: 1. it would remove Wx requirements from most (non-Padre::Wx) modules and 2. if we switch from gettext to something else, there would be only one place.
18:14 Sewi 3. (if you want): A test could easily override the function and check for texts instead of taking care of the language on the computer running make test
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20:43 code4pay Hello Sewi
20:47 Hyppolit svn: r10011 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10011
20:47 Hyppolit Revert changes related to the Wx::gettext to _T() transformation
20:47 Hyppolit svn merge -r10006:10005 .
20:47 Hyppolit svn merge -r10002:10001 .
20:47 Hyppolit svn merge -r10001:10000 .
20:47 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/t/ trunk/Padre/xt/
20:47 Getty that hurts
20:51 code4pay Looks like the patch I did for #390 did not get commited? Maybe I missed doing something
20:51 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:11 ]
20:52 Hyppolit svn: r10012 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10012
20:52 Hyppolit svn merge -r10000:9999 except the Padre/share/locale/de.po file
20:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/PPI/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/Preferences/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
20:52 szabgab I have revert a number of changes now
20:52 szabgab to clean up the mess I created
20:55 Hyppolit svn: r10013 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10013
20:55 Hyppolit svn merge -r9999:9998 .
20:55 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/Preferences/
20:57 Getty szabgab: --perl stable --build cpan, right?
20:57 Getty (after i did --perl stable --download)
20:57 szabgab first --build perl
20:57 Getty gives a strange error (thats why i ask)
20:57 Getty ah wait i did --build perl
20:57 Getty right
20:57 Getty but after that --build cpan, right?
20:57 szabgab yes
20:57 Getty Could not open source '/home/tr/share/files/mycpan.pl.tmpl' No such file or directory at /home/tr/perl5/lib/perl5/Perl/Dist/XL.pm line 272.
20:58 Getty <jeopardymusic>
20:59 Hyppolit svn: r10014 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10014
20:59 Hyppolit svn merge -r9993:9992 .
20:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Git/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SVN/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SVN/lib/Padre/Plugin/SVN/Wx/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-XML/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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21:00 szabgab oh, you actually installed the Padre::Dist::XL ?
21:00 szabgab it won't work that way
21:00 szabgab I run it from the svn repo
21:00 Getty ooohhhh.....
21:01 szabgab it still uses files relative to how it is in the svn repo
21:01 Getty ok...
21:05 Hyppolit svn: r10015 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10015
21:05 Hyppolit svn merge -r9989:9987 .
21:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/OpenResource/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/Outline/
21:09 Getty szabgab: i can "switch" in the middle of the process to the svn version?
21:09 szabgab I guess so
21:09 Getty oh i gueess you start it: Perl-Dist-XL$ script/perldist_xl.pl .... ?
21:11 Hyppolit svn: r10016 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10016
21:11 Hyppolit svn merge -r9987:9986 .
21:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/PPI/ trunk/Padre/xt/
21:12 szabgab yes
21:13 Getty that was fast
21:13 Getty no errors but took... 1sec ?
21:13 Getty sounds good? for --build cpan?
21:14 Getty trying --build padre now
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21:16 szabgab yes
21:16 szabgab it just copies a file
21:16 szabgab the cpan configuuration
21:16 szabgab now comes the installation of the modules
21:17 Getty he does .... stuff....
21:17 Hyppolit svn: r10017 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10017
21:17 Hyppolit svn merge -r9986:9985 .
21:17 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/HelpProvider/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/t/
21:19 Getty Can't locate Locale/Msgfmt.pm
21:19 Getty hmpf :)
21:24 Hyppolit svn: r10018 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10018
21:24 Hyppolit svn merge -r9978:9976 .
21:24 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
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21:32 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:12 ]
21:33 szabgab Getty, who told you that it cannot locate Locale/Msgfmt.pm ?
21:34 Getty Padre after Installing blib/lib/auto/share/dist/Padre/exa​mples/absolute_beginner/02_time.pl
21:34 Getty while doing Perl-Dist-XL$ script/perldist_xl.pl --perl stable --build padre
21:35 szabgab interesting
21:35 Getty wait
21:35 Getty i start over
21:35 Getty while JUST using via svn
21:35 Getty probably that messed it up
21:35 Getty or what you say?
21:35 szabgab maybe, or maybe not
21:35 Getty the INC path shows that he uses the right perl
21:35 szabgab just try run --build padre agai
21:35 Getty (just xl paths in it)
21:36 Getty doing
21:36 szabgab and you can also try to say     --perl stable  --module Locale::Msgfmt
21:36 szabgab to try to install just that module
21:36 szabgab maybe the dependency was not pulled in for some reason
21:37 Hyppolit svn: r10019 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10019
21:37 Hyppolit fix leftover from previous merged revert
21:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
21:39 Hyppolit svn: r10020 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10020
21:39 Hyppolit replace _T by Wx::gettext for the git plugin
21:39 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Git/lib/Padre/Plugin/
21:40 szabgab this stupid gettext/_T change gave me about 30 extra karma :-)
21:41 szabgab I think I am done with the reverts
21:42 code4pay szabgab: What do I need to do to get my patch for #390 added to the trunk?
21:42 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:12 ]
21:42 szabgab and hopefully things are still working
21:42 * szabgab checking
21:44 szabgab code4pay, I see there 3 patches
21:44 szabgab 2 from you
21:45 code4pay hmm ok I see 2,  I didn't notice the one from submersible
21:46 code4pay was it included? Maybe it resolves the issue
21:46 szabgab actually I think the two links to Editor.dif lead to the same place
21:48 szabgab the one from submersible was not applied, I don't know why did he attach a patch instead of doing it
21:49 szabgab Sewi, pingo
21:49 code4pay ok,  I think mine is a bit more comprhensive as it caters for functioanlity changes from win32 to X11
21:49 szabgab let's nag Sewi to apply it
21:49 szabgab I am just way too tired to understand anything now
21:50 code4pay ok
21:50 szabgab after the stupid cleanup I had to do after myself
21:50 szabgab sorry
21:50 code4pay no problem
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21:56 Hyppolit svn: r10021 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10021
21:56 Hyppolit tidy
21:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/HelpProvider/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/t/
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22:54 code4pay joined #padre
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23:29 submersible szabgab: #390 really needs a specification for the desired behaviour for X11 type selection buffers VS real clipboard
23:29 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:12 ]
23:36 Sewi szabgab: I'm on my way to bed, but will look at #390 tomorrow.
23:36 Hyppolit #390: Copy and Paste onto highlighted text (accepted defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/390#comment:12 ]
23:37 Sewi gn8

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