Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-01-27

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 Alias More performance tweaks added (this time to all the "close project", "close all but this file" etc)
00:03 Alias I'm still bemused that closing a file takes much longer than changing a tab
00:04 Alias I wonder if we can reframe a first-class single file close as "change tab, then close the other file while it's not focused any more"
00:04 Alias Maybe I just need to add a DB lock on the single file close, so the DB writes for "remember file position" occur after the Update and refresh operations have cleared
00:13 Hyppolit svn: r10308 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10308
00:13 Hyppolit Add a DB lock to ->close, so that the filesystem write for the file position storage occurs AFTER any refresh/update has occured.
00:13 Hyppolit This should make file closing perceptually faster in the single-file case, even if it doesn't make it actually faster.
00:13 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
00:14 * Alias would like to make the whole file position memory stuff optional
00:14 Alias In our ordinary file operations, it consumes quite a bit of time doing those database operations
00:16 Sewi Richard
00:16 Sewi sorry
00:16 Sewi Alias (backlog): Run as test should use prove
00:16 Sewi gn8
00:16 Alias Ah
00:27 Hyppolit svn: r10309 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10309
00:27 Hyppolit Nestled an UPDATE lock inside the close at the crucial point, so the actual removal of the tab is faster and flicker free.
00:27 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
00:29 Hyppolit svn: r10310 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10310
00:29 Hyppolit Loggin -> Logging
00:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
00:30 Hyppolit svn: r10311 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10311
00:30 Hyppolit Moved the UPDATE lock after the database write to reduce the timespan of the update lock slightly
00:30 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
00:47 Hyppolit svn: r10312 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10312
00:47 Hyppolit - Changed func_foo config variables to feature_foo, in anticipation of
00:47 Hyppolit of a future equivalent to the Mozilla "about:config" control (ADAMK)
00:47 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
01:02 Hyppolit svn: r10313 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10313
01:02 Hyppolit Added configuration option to disable the remembering of file positions, which (if you don't care about file positions) makes file opening a bit faster, and makes file closing super-fast.
01:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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02:31 Hyppolit #834: Preferences dialog should explicit'ify defaults (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/834 ]
02:32 Hyppolit #834: Preferences dialog should NOT explicit'ify defaults (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/834#comment:1 ]
03:04 Hyppolit svn: r10314 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10314
03:04 Hyppolit We now pushd to the project root before we ->run_document.
03:04 Hyppolit This should make things like test scripts and stuff in /script etc etc run correctly (hopefully).
03:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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05:18 Hyppolit svn: r10315 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10315
05:18 Hyppolit Use current a bit better
05:18 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/
05:19 Hyppolit svn: r10316 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10316
05:19 Hyppolit Added a fast ascii shortcut to the encoding detector, to make opening files way faster when you aren't in one of the encoding-bizarroworld asian locales (and you aren't working with unicode Perl)
05:19 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
05:20 Alias waxhead: OK, as far as I'm concerned, we're ready for a release
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05:20 Alias waxhead: Almost every major file operation, plus startup, plus the single instance server, is much much faster
05:20 Alias waxhead: Oh, he's not here
05:50 Alias http://use.perl.org/~Alias/journal/40133
05:59 Alias When waxhead shows, someone poke him and tell him to release
06:00 Alias I don't think there's many new strings to translate, it's mostly pokey optimisations and bug fixes
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06:38 Sewi gm
06:39 Alias_ heya
06:40 Hyppolit svn: r10317 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10317
06:40 Hyppolit Updating About page with people that haven't added themselves
06:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
06:40 Alias_ I think we're pretty much ready for the next release
06:40 Hyppolit svn: r10318 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10318
06:40 Hyppolit Correcting some CPAN ids
06:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
06:42 Alias_ Sewi: Bunch of speed ups landed while you were asleep
06:42 Alias_ Pretty much all file operations are omg fast now
06:42 Alias_ Especially if you turn off the (new) feature_position
06:42 Sewi What is feature_position?
06:43 Alias_ Turns off the thing that remembers where the cursor was in the file when you close it
06:43 Alias_ Maybe I need a better name
06:43 Sewi I like this feature :-)
06:43 Alias_ I used "cursor memory" in my blog post
06:43 Alias_ feature_cursormemory ?
06:44 Alias_ I'm also working on some improvements to ORLite
06:44 Alias_ I think I can more or less double the speed of the Perl elements of most read operations
06:44 Sewi Some caching might be useful.
06:45 Alias_ We already do
06:45 Alias_ For the most part
06:45 Alias_ I've added DB locks around a few candidates
06:45 Alias_ Even in the cases where we only do one statement, adding the DB lock delays the commit and disk operation until after the UPDATE/REFRESH locks flush out
06:46 Alias_ So it actually makes things perceptually faster sometimes when it isn't actually making it really faster
06:46 Alias_ File close, for example, is now percetually faster
06:46 Alias_ With cursormemory off though, it's runs almost as fast as you can click the close button
06:47 Alias_ File open faster now too, I wrote in an ascii shortcut for that stupid Encode::Guess stuff
06:47 Alias_ That was making file opening really slow
06:47 Alias_ So basically, pretty much everything is faster
06:47 Alias_ Even between 0.55 and 0.56
06:48 * Alias_ wants to get this released asap
06:49 Alias_ ooo
06:49 Alias_ And I just realised how to do upgrade-only splash screens
06:49 Sewi There is a config module for upgrade changes.
06:49 Alias_ Early, during startup
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06:50 Alias_ The splash screen now fires before the config modules are loaded at all
06:51 Hyppolit svn: r10319 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10319
06:51 Hyppolit feature_position -> feature_cursormemory
06:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/t/
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07:52 submersible Alias: i see tsee in history... what is slave-driver ?
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08:01 azawawi good morning
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08:17 Alias_ submersible, slave master
08:17 Alias_ submersible, they can spawn of a thread early while only maybe half of Wx is loaded, for future threads to be cloned off
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08:54 waxhead evening all
08:54 waxhead Alias_++ on the latest blog about Padre...
08:54 waxhead looks great.. I noticed the changes file has grown quickly this cycle...
09:24 submersible Alias: strangely - slave-driver-thread swarm service works fine - if started after padre is up and running. but if plugin is enabled at startup the event posting segfaults
09:28 jq Alias_: so, i'm waiting for top-100 most wanted mandriva or whatever crazy stuff you want
09:29 jq Alias_: http://jquelin.blogspot.com/2010/01/st​ats-about-cpan-modules-shipped-by.html
09:29 Alias_ waxhead: Release away!
09:29 Alias_ jq: It's usually the top 100 you DON'T have
09:30 Alias_ What are the modules with the highest volatility that AREN'T in Mandriva
09:59 waxhead this week???
09:59 waxhead seems fair to given all the changes..
09:59 waxhead tomorrow night..
10:00 waxhead maybe..
10:01 waxhead gotta go..
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10:37 reneeb Hi *, is there a Padre "marketing" text? I prepare a brochure for this years' CeBIT. A "very first" draft is available at http://renee-baecker.de/sonstiges/CeBIT.pdf . If no such text exists, can the Padre community write such a text?
10:39 Getty you must take that smiling faces logo, eh? ;)
10:39 Getty take some real perl conference stuff ;)
10:40 Getty are those company at the end giving money or something?
10:40 reneeb do you have appropriate pictures?
10:41 reneeb no, they do not give money. That was not my intend when I added the page...
10:42 Getty then you should remove them, and just add companies who are really supporting padre on cebit
10:42 reneeb the brochure is not only about padre
10:42 Getty i would feel a bit pissed, if my company sponsors the t-shirt and sending personal resources to the cebit and must see that other companies get free promo
10:42 reneeb it's about perl at all
10:42 Getty yes
10:43 Getty and still, dont see why those companies get free advertising while others spend money/work for perl even live at the event
10:43 reneeb if your company would like to be added to that page, please send me the logo
10:43 Getty i just want to feel a reason for those companies to be on that flyer
10:44 Getty especially seibert media ;)
10:45 tsee reneeb, s/Ressources/Resources/
10:45 reneeb seibert media for example does a lot of things for foswiki, they have supported German Perl Workshop,...
10:45 reneeb @tsee: thanks.
10:46 tsee reneeb, another thing. This may very well just be a matter of taste: The big indentation after the bullet points on page two looks odd to me.
10:46 reneeb ok
10:47 tsee "Perl people suck at..." -> maybe not the right style for printed material?
10:47 tsee "Active blogging and scenes" => "Active blogging scene"?
10:47 tsee "you only have to search for it" => "you simply have to search for it"?
10:48 tsee "Perl weaknesses" => "Perceived Perl weaknesses"?
10:48 Getty reneeb: i doesnt feel very comfortable
10:48 reneeb tsee, thanks, I will correct these things in the next version
10:49 tsee reneeb, Anyway, just some thoughts.
10:50 Getty but that reminds me that i should print out some flyers for padre special
10:50 Getty Sewi: and we REALLY should take some minutes to exactly plan whats now going on
10:50 reneeb Getty, the last page is there to show, that many companies and projects still use Perl for major developments. If we would only add companies that pay for it, we would have only four or five. That wouldn't be very impressive ;-)
10:51 Getty reneeb: then you must make it different style
10:51 Getty reneeb: if you want to show "how many" then you regulary make a "huge chess field" of micro logos
10:51 Getty that the logo isnt really readable, but identifable
10:51 Getty that is the way to go to represent "usage"
10:51 tsee reneeb, I don't like the "still" in that sentence :)
10:52 Sewi reneeb: Great work, the flyer. Maybe alias or Ryan52 (native speakers) should look at it before printing.
10:52 reneeb Getty, if I get more logos to fill that page, I could do that! What you said is a good suggestion. Thanks!
10:53 Sewi reneeb: How much are these places?
10:53 Getty reneeb: i just dont want to give companies free advertisment even if its good for perl, its just that its a bit awkward
10:53 Getty reneeb: are you at location and bring them on?
10:53 Getty if they are finished
10:53 reneeb getty, yes
10:53 Getty cause again: i got a print company here
10:54 Getty we can make them fit for free
10:54 Getty (with cutting and stuff to make them DIN A6 or stuff)
10:54 Getty and we need to coordinate that i can make the t-shirts
10:55 reneeb Getty, good to know! I asked unitedprint.com for a special offer (they use Perl a lot as well)
10:55 Sewi I got someone in Hannover, they're cheap but not for free and they won't do a sponsoring on this, I think.
10:56 reneeb Getty, any ideas what we could print on the t-shirts?
10:58 Getty i thought of a padre logo, and a logo of choice per guy who got one
10:58 Getty (like that everybody can represent his own company)
10:58 Sewi Don't forget the Perl logo
10:58 Getty and the t-shirt sponsor takes a little logo on the ground on every t-shirt ;)
10:58 Getty yeah ok perl logo ;)
10:58 Getty but that is a problem probably
10:58 Getty or?
10:58 Getty no the new logo works
10:59 Sewi I don't think that the Perl foundation would refuse the logo usage on request.
11:00 kthakore Getty onion not camel!
11:00 Getty yeah of course
11:00 Getty Sewi: do you ask?
11:00 kthakore Alias_: around
11:00 Getty And i need a simplified Padre logo AS VECTOR(!!!!)
11:01 kthakore Go vecotrize the padre png in gimp
11:01 Alias_ kthakore, shoot
11:01 kthakore Alias_: never got the eeason why split window fails
11:02 Alias_ I have no idea why split window fails...
11:02 kthakore Alias_: ok
11:02 Getty kthakore: so you wanna do it? great!
11:02 kthakore Alias_: also how can i have padre not show splash?
11:02 Getty kthakore: i cant do it, so if you tell it that way feels like you wanna do it
11:02 Sewi kthakore: There is a preferences option for this
11:02 kthakore Sewi grest!
11:03 kthakore also can a plugin add a new tab to editor but not a notebook but a canvas?
11:03 Sewi In theory? yes.
11:04 Getty kthakore: so do you do it?
11:04 kthakore Sewi: what needs to be done? I wanna give padre git a log tree
11:04 Sewi But I'd expect a huge number of places where the source assums that the current object structure exists
11:05 Getty Sewi: do you got a "wash crew" for the evening? ;)
11:05 kthakore Sei : ok ...
11:05 Getty Sewi: I mean we need to wash the t-shirts daily and directly get the useable again, i probably should make 2 per person
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11:05 Getty i suggest black color is fine?
11:05 kthakore Getty: is this forr FOSDEM
11:06 Getty kthakore: what?
11:06 Getty kthakore: its for the t-shirts
11:06 kthakore why wash new tshirts?
11:08 kthakore Sewi where should i look into splitting window?
11:09 kthakore the 2nd last thing keeping my coworkers on notepad++
11:10 Sewi kthakore: I rarly understand the Wx and the object structure of Padre, so I'm the wrong person to ask, sorry.
11:10 kthakore Sewi: who to ask?
11:11 Sewi Anybody else here :-) Azawawi knows much about Wx...
11:11 Getty kthakore got a talent for randomly asking specific people to specific stuff
11:11 kthakore ok
11:12 Getty without having any clue if that is the right person at all ;)
11:12 Sewi reneeb: How much for the logo places?
11:12 kthakore Getty: oh right! same super power as yours!
11:12 Getty kthakore: NO! i got other super powers
11:12 kthakore Getty: mine are better
11:12 * Getty puts on his Super-Cow shirt!
11:13 Getty really?? ;)
11:13 * kthakore puts on hack power ring
11:13 kthakore yes!
11:13 Sewi May the force be with you
11:14 kthakore hehe
11:14 kthakore i am the force!
11:14 kthakore all dem jedis be trippin fool
11:14 reneeb Sewi, nothing. But according to Gettys suggestion: If the company supports your CeBIT attendance, it will be shown bigger ;-)
11:15 kthakore all dem sith be wangstas
11:15 * kthakore has to go study
11:15 kthakore cya guys!
11:15 Sewi It's my company and I can't work for it because I'm on Cebit for Padre :)
11:16 reneeb Sewi, you can send the logo to perl@renee-baecker.de
11:17 Getty reneeb: i send you steinwand software logo ;)
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11:18 Getty reneeb: so steinwand software bigger ;)
11:21 reneeb Getty, ok!
11:22 Getty my boss will send it, so could take some time till you get it
11:22 Getty its a bit hilarious that we still make our money with a PHP framework, tho..... ;)
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11:24 Sewi reneeb: Put a big  red cross over Getty's logo, he's a PHP spy and only pretents to be one of us :-)
11:27 Getty Sewi: no!
11:27 Getty Sewi: i just need to make money ;)
11:29 Getty we could actually take a the real red cross logo into the list
11:29 Getty lol
11:29 Getty out of my experience with the red cross, the sub organizations are making everything on their own (they just need to follow style-line)
11:29 Hyppolit svn: r10320 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10320
11:29 Hyppolit Updating ORLite dependency to 1.36 to get access to the xsaccessor optimisation param
11:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
11:29 Getty that means noone can check if red cross really uses perl somewhere or not.... ....
11:30 Getty ;)
11:30 Sewi Getty: I was joking :-)
11:31 Getty yeah yeah ;)
11:44 danlucraft Alias_: read your post, awesome stuff
11:45 Alias_ danlucraft, it's definitely looking awesome
11:45 * Alias_ is chasing more speed ups in the database layer, almost entirely for kicks
11:45 danlucraft refresh locking is something I heard your talking about before, but I don't quite get
11:45 danlucraft is it that you tell Wx not to refresh until you're finished with a long thing, and then do it all at once?
11:46 Alias_ There's several types
11:46 Alias_ There "Update" locking
11:46 Alias_ Which suspends the actual graphical repainting and any sizer recalculations as well I think
11:47 danlucraft ok
11:47 Alias_ Then there's refresh locking, which is where we ask for a content regeneration at the Perl level of part of the application
11:47 Alias_ Except instead of doing it as an imperative -> refresh
11:47 Alias_ We ask for a refresh lock, which is a guard object
11:47 Alias_ The ->refresh event won't fire until it goes out of scope
11:48 danlucraft not sure I get that
11:48 danlucraft can you give an example?
11:48 Alias_ Lets say I open a new file
11:48 Alias_ I need to update the window title
11:48 danlucraft yep
11:48 Alias_ To show the name of the new file
11:48 Alias_ I COULD just call ->refresh_title myself
11:48 Alias_ But what if I'm opening 10 files at once
11:48 Alias_ Then I'd be pointlessly generating the title 10 times
11:49 danlucraft ah, I see
11:49 Alias_ So instead, I ask for a ->refresh_title "lock" in the open_file method
11:49 Alias_ Which will run it at the end, as normal
11:49 Alias_ BUT, if that lock is created inside the scope of ANOTHER higher lock, it will only happen when the highest lock goes out of scope
11:49 danlucraft so, something like FileOpener.lock_title { 10.times { FileOpener.open_file } } ?
11:50 danlucraft gotcha
11:50 Alias_ And we do some special stuff
11:50 Alias_ So if you have a ->refresh_foo lock at the top level, instead of firing the lower ->refresh_bar lock at scope exit, we push the ->refresh_bar up into the top lock
11:51 Alias_ So the top level one aggregates all the things we'll have to refresh
11:51 Alias_ And then when the top lock goes out of scope, we run all the refresh methods at once
11:51 Alias_ And we also do some optimisation, so if theres a ->refresh_everything and ->refresh_title, we know the latter is also in the former, so we remove the latter
11:51 danlucraft clever
11:51 danlucraft this is all Perl, nothing to do with Wx, right?
11:51 Alias_ Well, kinda
11:52 Alias_ The ->Update stuff is native Wx
11:52 danlucraft yep
11:52 Alias_ The rest is all Perl
11:52 danlucraft but this refresh locking thing
11:52 Alias_ Except that we wrap ->refresh, ->Update and also SQLite DBI connection pooling locks together
11:52 Alias_ So you can say
11:52 Alias_ my $lock = $main->lock('UPDATE', 'DB', 'refresh_directory', 'refresh_functionlist');l
11:53 Alias_ Which asks for a database, update and two refresh locks all at once
11:53 Alias_ Also, the top level knows which order to release in
11:53 Alias_ Update, then the refresh stuff (itself in another temporary update lock), then database commit
11:53 danlucraft this is clever
11:53 danlucraft this is going into my bag of things to remember for later....
11:53 Alias_ It's a way to make GUI refreshing scale with code complexity
11:53 danlucraft yep
11:55 danlucraft so, a "lock" in this sense doesn't refer to multi-threading
11:55 danlucraft it refers to batching
11:55 Alias_ No
11:55 Alias_ It's an activity lock
11:56 danlucraft it says, don't do these things until the end, then do them
11:56 Alias_ The lock holder reserves the right to choose when to spend the CPU needed to update something
11:56 Alias_ So in that sense, it's locking your budget
11:56 danlucraft but multiple threads could still be accessing a locked thing
11:56 danlucraft like, there's no reason two threads couldn't be opening files
11:56 Alias_ That has nothing to do with the Padre::Locker system
11:56 danlucraft both with a title lock, which is then released by both
11:56 Alias_ It only holds database, repaint and refresh locks
11:56 danlucraft right
11:57 Alias_ The idea of locking is portable to many many concepts
11:57 danlucraft yep
11:58 danlucraft does padre use events, with publish/subscribe etc
11:58 danlucraft ?
11:58 * danlucraft is getting sucked in again
11:59 Alias_ Not much
11:59 Alias_ But here and there
11:59 danlucraft ok
11:59 danlucraft so how does a plugin hook into, e.g., a file opening?
12:00 Alias_ The plugins are required to declare specific named methods
12:00 danlucraft same principle as before
12:00 Alias_ If they are interested in different things
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12:01 Alias_ And the plugin manager examines the API of the plugin
12:01 Alias_ Plugins NEVER actively call any API in Padre
12:01 Alias_ They are required to BE called only
12:01 danlucraft that's the same principle as we were discussing before
12:01 Alias_ right
12:01 danlucraft I didn't realize how consistent that was
12:01 danlucraft excellent
12:01 danlucraft ok, it's time for me to learn some perl and read these sources properly
12:02 danlucraft I think we have a nutshell book around here somewhere....
12:12 kthakore Alias_: how do I get 1.36 ORLite?
12:12 Alias_ It's on CPAN
12:12 Alias_ ooorrrr...
12:12 Alias_ http://svn.ali.as/cpan/releases/ORLite-1.36.tar.gz
12:13 kthakore ok
12:13 kthakore thanks
12:14 Alias_ Although I'm working on a 1.37 which is even faster
12:14 kthakore Alias_: :( .... SDL is going to mollasses ware
12:14 Alias_ Dunno if it will make it into the current release though, so you might be ok
12:14 Alias_ Losing momentum?
12:14 kthakore Alias_: no ... I have a lot to do
12:14 Alias_ So recruit more
12:14 Alias_ ... instead
12:14 kthakore Alias_: and yeah actually but that was fine
12:15 kthakore Alias_: the momentum is directly contingent on real work
12:15 kthakore Alias_: I haven't been around that much to do real work so I don't blame people
12:19 kthakore Alias_: but we do have a new release almost done
12:19 kthakore Alias_: thread safety finally built it!
12:20 Alias_ yay
12:20 kthakore yay!
12:20 Alias_ Does Pong run yet?
12:20 Alias_ (And can be packaged)
12:20 kthakore Alias_: ask garu
12:20 kthakore Alias_: yeah I can have it in a jiffy. This weekend?
12:20 kthakore garu: ^^ Let me get this done
12:21 kthakore Alias_: it will be on Redesign code that is on CPAN ok?
12:21 kthakore Alias_: SDL-2.3_5
12:21 garu pong should run under redesign
12:21 garu I... think :)
12:21 kthakore garu: it doesn't the one I made is in CPAN
12:22 kthakore garu: and Alias_ wants a package I assume right?
12:22 garu right
12:22 * Alias_ wants to say "cpan install Pong"
12:22 Alias_ or whatever
12:22 kthakore garu: ^^
12:22 kthakore Alias_: it is done just needs to be packaged
12:22 Alias_ neat
12:22 garu kthakore, what?
12:23 kthakore garu: I will use Collision::Util on this
12:23 garu cool
12:23 garu kthakore, not this week though
12:23 kthakore garu: so your new module gets some usage done
12:23 garu yay
12:23 kthakore garu: no worries weekend I do
12:23 kthakore I need hack-list-to-do
12:23 kthakore so far I have
12:24 garu kthakore, but, like you said, pong is already included in CPAN's sdl
12:24 garu at least a rough version of it
12:24 kthakore garu: right
12:24 kthakore but this would be neat
12:24 kthakore sudo cpan Pong
12:24 garu so cpan install SDL would do the trick (for now)
12:25 kthakore garu: but they have to hunt for it in ~/.build
12:25 kthakore Alias_ doesn't wanna do that right?
12:25 garu couldn't we use an App::* or Game::* namespace for those?
12:25 kthakore prolly
12:25 Alias_ Game::Pong is fine
12:25 kthakore kk
12:25 garu sweet
12:26 kthakore garu: oh since you are here have you seen tis? http://www.kirsle.net/blog.ht​ml?u=kirsle&category=KAGE
12:27 kthakore garu: 2d perl game engine but he is going for Tk as frontend
12:27 kthakore garu: but his design looks modular so we could wrap SDL on it
12:28 * garu doesn't trust vaporware
12:28 garu once he has a beta, we'll see :)
12:28 kthakore garu: hehe we will wait in the shadows and pounce !
12:28 kthakore like cougarz
12:28 kthakore er ... no
12:28 kthakore garu: crap are we on the wrong channel!
12:29 kthakore Alias_: ok back to padre
12:29 kthakore Alias_: where can I look into split Notebook.pm or Editor.pm?
12:30 kthakore I was thinking of making a function to add a split in Editor
12:30 kthakore then trigger it with a test plugin for now
12:30 kthakore then once it works move it to menu action and short cut?
12:33 Alias_ TBH, I dunno
12:33 Alias_ Although, if you hunt through the old Changes file entries (from like 0.01 up)
12:33 Alias_ There USED to be a split implementation
12:34 Alias_ It got ripped out because it either bitrotted, or never worked at all
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13:13 bricas hrmm, showing the functions sidebar doesn't seem to immediately populate the list, i had to switch between open docs to get it to populate.
13:14 bricas can anyone confirm?
13:16 danlucraft Alias_: which are some good, fully standards compliant plugins?
13:23 bricas danlucraft: I've been keeping the PerlTidy plugin up-to-date, which Alias has recently vetted.
13:23 danlucraft bricas: cool, thanks
13:27 tsee C++-- # forgetting an innocent & will make the reference a copy. Everything silently works (differently) and in the end, you wonder why the damn data structure is empty.
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13:42 Hyppolit #835: Function list not populated on initial panel showing (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/835 ]
13:45 patspam joined #padre
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13:50 azawawi hi
13:51 azawawi kthakore: ping
13:52 azawawi kthakore: re your question to Alias "also how can i have padre not show splash?", there is now a checkbox to enable/disable splash in preferences (Padre trunk)
13:52 azawawi kthakore: see r10289
13:52 Hyppolit Changeset #10289 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10289
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13:58 tsee Has anybody tested the slave driver branch yet?
13:59 tsee (I'll keep bugging until I get a few yes'!)
14:00 kthakore azawawi: ok
14:00 azawawi tsee: what's that branch for?
14:00 kthakore azawawi: how do I r10289 has split screen?
14:00 Hyppolit Changeset #10289 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10289
14:01 tsee azawawi, spawning a master thread ultra-early that does the spawning of the workers.
14:01 tsee Thus saving memory and fixing the Scalars Leaked errors.
14:01 azawawi kthakore: no, the splash screen toggle...
14:01 kthakore azawawi: right. Which revision had split screen?
14:01 azawawi kthakore: let me check...
14:01 azawawi tsee: i see
14:01 kthakore azawawi: also how can a plugin make a new tab in Editor with log?
14:02 kthakore azawawi: er not log but a wx canvas?
14:02 azawawi so you need to make the split screen?
14:03 azawawi kthakore: vertical or horizontal?
14:03 kthakore azawawi: I want to give a shot at it
14:03 kthakore azawawi: um both? possible?
14:03 azawawi kthakore: both read-write?
14:03 Sewi kthakore: There is a search function top right on padre.perlide.org.
14:03 kthakore azawawi: split screen is the last thing keeping my co workers on notepad
14:04 kthakore azawawi: I guess so?
14:04 kthakore Sewi: but what do I search for
14:04 kthakore Sewi: azawawi sorry if I am asking too many questions
14:04 Sewi You could search through  all updates, changes, tickets, etc.
14:05 azawawi kthakore: no problem... it jump-starts my sleeping mind :)
14:05 azawawi kthakore: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/64
14:05 kthakore azawawi: nice
14:05 kthakore Sewi: ok I will research and make a patch first thanks
14:05 kthakore azawawi++ thanks
14:06 azawawi i wonder if it is the "Split view" feature or not...
14:06 azawawi and why is closed by szabgab...
14:06 azawawi kthakore: http://padre.perlide.org/tr​ac/wiki/Features#Splitview
14:07 azawawi Sewi: what are you working on atm in Padre?
14:08 Sewi kthakore: A reasonable search string would be "split screen" "split window" or just "split" :)
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14:09 Sewi azawawi: I'm currently trying to get my other workload done/reduced and doesn't have much time for Padre atm :-(
14:10 kthakore azawawi: I will reopen that ticket
14:10 kthakore and take it this weekend ish
14:10 azawawi Sewi: im thinking of adding one-liner wizard like regex editor...
14:11 azawawi Sewi: that generates correct one-liner to different platforms...
14:12 azawawi Sewi: input/output panes for one-liner along with one-liner command
14:12 Sewi Nice idea. A "copy output to paste buffer" or "insert output at current cursor location" would be nice
14:13 azawawi nice
14:23 Sewi azawawi: Add "use current selection|paste buffer as input" to the wish list
14:24 azawawi Sewi: thanks
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14:26 daxim !seen szabgab
14:26 daxim seen szabgab
14:26 daxim narf
14:30 Sewi away this week
14:31 daxim alright, I'll send email
14:41 Sewi reneeb, Getty: Do you know if we'll get tickets for CeBit?
14:42 reneeb I think so!
14:42 reneeb but szabgab should know it
14:47 Getty thats why i said we need coordination
14:47 Getty we dont know what szabgab handles what not
14:47 Getty what we get exactly, what we have exactly, what we need todo at location (or what we have to define ourself) and so on
14:54 reneeb Getty, Sewi: Are you subscribed to TPF events-mailinglist?
14:54 Sewi no
14:55 reneeb this would be a good place for the coordination work...
14:55 Sewi Do you have any link for subscribing?
14:56 reneeb events-subscribe@lists.perlfoundation.org
14:56 Sewi mail sent
15:32 Sewi Does http://cpan.perl.org/ work for you?
15:43 daxim http://log.perl.org  the system is down
16:02 Alias_ Righto
16:03 Alias_ I've got experimental versions of BOTH array => 1 and xsaccessor => 1 working for ORLite
16:03 Alias_ Which uses ARRAY-based objects and Class::XSAccessor accessors instead of HASH and pure perl accessors
16:03 Alias_ The author of ORLite::Array says his selects double in speed
16:08 kaare joined #padre
16:09 Alias_ I'm bumping the dependency on ORLite again, to 1.37
16:09 Alias_ http://svn.ali.as/cpan/releases/ORLite-1.37.tar.gz
16:09 Alias_ And switching the ORLite build to use ARRAY-based objects
16:10 Alias_ If anything crashes, please revert the change
16:12 Hyppolit svn: r10321 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10321
16:12 Hyppolit Updating to ORLite 1.37, and switching Padre::DB to BOTH the array => 1 and xsaccessor => 1 options.
16:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
16:14 Hyppolit svn: r10322 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10322
16:14 Hyppolit If the ORLite upgrades cause a problem, back them out
16:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
16:15 Alias_ Righto
16:15 Alias_ Night
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17:08 frew joined #padre
17:08 frew so do I really need to rebuild my perl with threads to use Padre?
17:09 * frew whines
17:16 kyanardag joined #padre
17:24 kyanardag joined #padre
17:26 Sewi You don't
17:26 Sewi There is a standalone Padre which comes with a precompiled Perl
17:26 Sewi And you could use system-wide Perl for Padre and your own for your scripts.
17:35 reneeb left #padre
17:38 Sewi We should print language flags on the shirts for CeBit as not everybody speaks English, German or others
17:53 LeK joined #padre
18:04 Getty AAAHHH I FEEL NAKED!.... i need perldoc.perl.org
18:04 Getty Sewi: good idea
18:04 Getty Sewi: "Speaks Language:"
18:05 Getty even tho
18:05 Getty i cant say if i can maket his
18:05 Getty coloured stuff is another area
18:05 Getty 2-3 colors is not a problem that is just layers
18:05 Getty but such stuff... i need the specific colors
18:05 Getty and i can only buy the "print material" in big amounts
18:05 Getty probably sticker/pins or something?
18:13 frew Sewi: orly?
18:13 * frew looks around for standalone Padre
18:14 frew oo, 5.11.3, neat
18:19 frew how do I install more plugins with this standalone version?
18:27 Sewi Getty: I got dozen or two "Namensschilder zum Anstecken" 40x75mm - we could use them.
18:28 Sewi frew: Sorry, it should be on the download page. I don't know if szabgab packed a cpan client into it.
18:28 frew bleh
18:28 frew well, it has that cpan install gui
18:28 frew but that doesn't seem to work right?
18:28 Getty Sewi: i can print on the names directly
18:28 Getty shape is not the problem, just colors
18:29 Sewi Don't know - I never tried the standalone myself
18:29 Getty frew: cpan doesnt work
18:29 frew ok
18:29 Getty frew: just forget that part of it ;)
18:29 Getty use it as is
18:29 Getty OR make your own
18:29 Getty its not that hard, i did myself
18:29 Sewi Getty: CPAN mirrors work
18:29 frew so really what you are saying is, I actually do need to rebuild perl :-)
18:29 Getty depends on what you want
18:29 frew seems like I might as well
18:29 Getty you are using stable debian`?
18:29 frew nosir
18:29 frew ubuntu
18:29 Getty then you shouldnt have a problem
18:29 frew but I build my own perl anyway
18:29 frew and clearly didn'
18:29 Getty but hey, ubuntu s*** so... no idea
18:29 Sewi frew: Did you remove the preinstalled Perl?
18:30 frew Sewi: nope
18:30 frew but I don't wanna use the ubuntu packaged version of Padre...right?
18:30 frew it's all old and stuff
18:30 Sewi Look for the padre script and change the first line to "#!/usr/bin/perl"
18:30 frew cool
18:30 Sewi (Or whereever you left the original one).
18:31 Sewi There is no drawback using the ubuntu Perl for running Padre - there is still no need to use it for your scripts.
18:31 Sewi You could change the Perl being used _by_ Padre in the preferences dialog.
18:31 frew right.
18:31 frew that's a good idea
18:32 Sewi And we can't  change Padre to a Perl dependency which is less than 10 years old, because debian doesn't include any software younger than this. (Just kidding at Getty :-) )
18:32 Getty :-P
18:33 Sewi frew: You could even change the Perl interpreter on per-project (even if this doesn't work out of the GUI)
18:33 frew hm
18:33 frew well
18:33 frew mostly I just want to hack on the Vi plugin
18:33 Sewi This would be really great!
18:33 Sewi Do you have a trac account?
18:33 frew because I love vim, but having pure perl scriptability would be SO COOL
18:34 frew nah, I'll ask for one once I feel acquainted with this code more
18:34 Sewi If you got a minute, we could do it now.
18:34 frew alright, sure
18:35 Sewi Someone needs to open the registration for you and noone might be here when you actually need the account.
18:35 Sewi Reg is open now.
18:35 Sewi trac?
18:35 Hyppolit trac is http://padre.perlide.org/trac and also http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
18:35 Sewi Use the second link
18:35 danlucraft joined #padre
18:35 Sewi Getty: But even using the mirrors, Apache::Template doesn't install. Seems noone ever ported it to mod_perl2 :-(
18:37 Sewi frew: Please drop me a line once you're done as the registration needs to be closed again when you're finished...
18:37 frew done.
18:37 Sewi thanks
18:37 Sewi reg  closed
18:38 frew np, thank you
18:39 Sewi Please add tickets for bugs, new ideas, etc. (If noone else reported the same thing before). You're welcome to fix anything reported (including your tickets).
18:39 Sewi Append your patch to the ticket and announce it here on IRC, someone will commit it.
18:40 Sewi You might want to use the trunk version for working on Padre or it's Plugins.
18:40 Sewi svn?
18:40 Hyppolit svn is http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download#​Moredetailedinstructionformanualinstallation
18:40 frew sure
19:56 LeK Can somebody give me an hint about using perl code from a java component? I'm frightened by the oldness of some modules like inline::java and was about to go into some Runtime.exec("myscript.pl") handling with a perl script return xml messages... any idea on this topic? (i know i'm going off topic, pardon me if it was wrong)
19:57 Sewi azawawi might be able to tell you as he's being paid for writing java, but he's not here atm. You should ask the monks (perlmonks.org)...
19:58 LeK thanks for the advice, what I found last weeks on websites seems so old.... if I see azawawi, i'll ask him
20:02 patspam joined #padre
20:03 Sewi The monks might be faster
20:07 Hyppolit #835: Function list not populated on initial panel showing (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/835#comment:1 ]
20:09 LeK i don't even have an account... it's time for me to make my public coming out
20:10 Sewi You don't need an account, you could write as anonymous monk
20:10 LeK strange, i'm not used to such open behaviour this days when you need to create an account for anything... but i kinda wanted to created one :)
20:17 Sewi LeK, do you use Padre trunk?
20:20 Sewi Alias: current trunk (r10322) drops masses of DIE: Not a hash reference errors to stdout. The first on in PluginManager.pm like 577 and it seems that the config has become an array.
20:20 Hyppolit Changeset #10322 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10322
20:20 LeK sewi, yes
20:20 Sewi Alias: You wrote about this, but it seems that it broke Padre.
20:21 LeK (but not for the last two tickets i opened)
20:21 Sewi Padre fails to start here due to the array problems.
20:22 LeK i've checked out a trunk half an hour ago and basic editing is working
20:24 Sewi Did you do the ORLite update?
20:25 LeK yes, i had no choice
20:26 LeK perl was complaining about orlite version (1.32 or was it 1.02 instead of 1.37)
20:26 Sewi Do you use any Plugins?
20:27 LeK not much for the moment, i tried a couple of them a couple of days ago... (i had my first padre working on sunday )
20:27 LeK datawalker... and...
20:27 Sewi ok
20:28 LeK and svn, tidy, critic, but i haven't used them much yet
20:28 Sewi Plugin Manager doesnt work for me atm and sessions, too
20:31 LeK i've enabled the plugins available in my cpan tree and they appear in the menu, i also can launch the plugin manager and see its window... version in the title reports r10322
20:31 Hyppolit Changeset #10322 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10322
20:31 LeK r10321
20:31 Hyppolit Changeset #10321 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10321
20:31 LeK (fun)
20:34 Sewi Plugin Manager doesnt work for me atm and sessions, too
20:35 LeK i'm sorry for that :)
20:38 Sewi Not your fault
20:41 LeK (hehe, that was a stupid joke... sorry for that stupid joke, this one was my fault)
20:41 Hyppolit svn: r10323 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/10323
20:41 Hyppolit Fix ORLite update victims
20:41 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
20:41 kgish joined #padre
20:42 Sewi thank you for helping me debugging. Without your message that Padre runs for you, I might had been waiting for Alias to fix things.
20:43 kgish quick question: what's the status of being able to define different projects?
20:44 LeK i'm glad to help with my beginner skills... :)
20:45 Sewi kgish: Working for month, but automatically, not manually.
20:45 Sewi kgish: Padre looks for padre.yml, Makefile.PL and others to find the project home dir. A padre.yml there could contain  project-specific configuration
20:45 kgish Sewi, what do you mean by automatically?
20:46 kgish so if there's a Makefile.PL present then this defines a project?
20:46 Sewi The project's home dir, yes
20:46 Sewi Otherwise just add any empty "padre.yml" file
20:47 kgish first nothing happens, but if I open Makefile.PL voila it works!
20:48 Sewi Detection runs on any file you open
20:50 kgish been using Komodo for years now but maybe it's time to switch
20:50 Sewi Project support is still growing
20:50 kgish Komodo is getting sluggish and it's refreshing to have a snappier IDE again
20:50 kgish and debugging also works?
20:52 Sewi Sure, a realtime debugger is included.
20:53 kgish where does perltidy grab it's settings from?
20:58 Sewi system/user defaults, Padre preferences, project preferences (padre.yml) using this order (first-match)
20:58 Sewi sorry, I reversed the order, the project config has the highest prio, of cause
21:02 LeK perlmonks.org is pure perl philosophy... there's 40 differents howto and faq and guidance on how to post on perlmonks, and you have to learn what is a pm scratchpad, a chatterbox, and where to put your "node" ( rotfl )
21:05 Sewi Just ask your questions in "Seekers of Perl wisdom"
21:07 LeK yes, thank you very much for guiding me. In fact, i've already found this information. I was just thinking it was funny finding myself wondering "but what the heck can a nodelet be?" just to post a message on e website
21:08 Sewi Perlmonks could be complicated, but usually everything is easy :-)
21:09 LeK that's ok, anyway I have to replenish my geekiness score, long time left without attention
21:09 LeK (score... mark)
21:32 kgish Lek, hi
21:32 kgish gshank, hi i mean
21:42 LeK hehe
22:25 SvenDowideit_ joined #padre
22:38 Hyppolit #832: GetOptions( spawns unsavedX tab and crash Padre in StepOver Debugging (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/832#comment:1 ]
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23:58 stom joined #padre
23:59 stom Got Padre installed but not running on OpenSolaris, build 131 and 130.

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