Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-03-23

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Time Nick Message
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07:28 azawawi good morning
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08:50 kreetrapper Good morning. Anybody awake yet?
08:50 Alias__ \o
08:50 Alias__ It's 7:50pm, of course
08:51 kreetrapper sorry. It just seemed so quiet.
08:51 Alias__ It usually is during the Australian business day
08:51 Alias__ It will start to get busier now that Europe is moving through their business day
08:52 kreetrapper I just started using Padre
08:52 kreetrapper and I quite like it so far
08:52 Alias__ How are you finding it
08:52 kreetrapper but I just run into a bug and I wanted to ask if there's maybe an easy fix
08:52 Alias__ Fire away
08:53 kreetrapper I tried "run script" from the menu
08:53 kreetrapper at first it complained that I didn't have Probe::Perl
08:53 kreetrapper I installed that via CPAN
08:53 kreetrapper and now "run script" closes/crashes Padre
08:54 kreetrapper It's Padre 0.56 btw
08:56 kreetrapper Ah, I think I found the reason
08:57 kreetrapper I kind of blew the install and now I'm missing all kinds of modules
08:58 kreetrapper is there a way to check for all modules required by Padre without re-installing it?
09:00 Alias__ Sorry, cooking
09:00 Alias__ So let me summarise
09:00 Alias__ You install Padre from source?
09:01 Alias__ (And if I had to guess...)
09:01 Alias__ You ran Makefile.PL
09:01 Alias__ It complained about lots of missing modules
09:01 Alias__ Then you ran make
09:01 Alias__ Then you either didn't run test, or ran it but didn't pay much attention to any failing tests
09:01 Alias__ Then you ran make install
09:01 Alias__ And now it's missing half it's guts :)
09:01 Alias__ Would that be a fair assessment :)
09:02 kreetrapper yes, because it was a fresh install, and I hadn't solved the "I'm not root problem" yet
09:02 kreetrapper fresh OS, I mean
09:02 kreetrapper I did a couple of force installs
09:02 kreetrapper but obviously I still missed some stuff
09:03 Alias__ Clearly :)
09:04 Alias__ There's a Linux version of Padre standalone I think
09:04 Alias__ That MIGHT work
09:05 Alias__ It's a teensy bit bleading edge though :)
09:05 Alias__ It contains Perl 5.11.4 :)
09:05 kreetrapper so you think I shouldn't try to fix it and rather start from scratch?
09:05 kreetrapper whoa, perl 5.11.4?
09:05 Alias__ :)
09:05 Alias__ If you forced stuff to install, it's hard to know where in the recursive dependency tree you did it
09:06 Alias__ So just running Makefile.PL and looking at the list of missing top level dependencies might not be enough
09:06 Alias__ Which linux btw?
09:06 kreetrapper open suse 11.2
09:07 kreetrapper doesn't cpan keep a list somewhere?
09:07 kreetrapper of what went wrong, I mean
09:07 kreetrapper because every time I try to install a missing module it says "already tried this and failed"
09:07 kreetrapper so there has to be a list
09:07 kreetrapper and maybe I could just manually go through that
09:10 Alias__ hrm
09:10 Alias__ We've got Fedora 11, Mandriva 2009, Ubuntu 9.10, Debian Sid packages...
09:10 Alias__ Not yours though
09:10 Alias__ Oh, that's stupid CPAN
09:10 Alias__ It remembers things it shouldn't
09:11 Alias__ Personally, these days unless I'm doing something weird I always do it from the command line
09:11 Alias__ sudo cpan Module::Name
09:11 Alias__ That way it won't remember and "optimise"
09:13 kreetrapper so, you would recommend using one of these packages?
09:14 Alias__ Not if you aren't on those OS :)
09:14 kreetrapper because, I plan to switch to using Ubuntu at home
09:14 kreetrapper and then I could use the package
09:14 kreetrapper here at work, though, I'm kind of stuck with SuSE
09:15 kreetrapper well, "run script" works now after I force installed File-pushd, so I just hope that I now have everything
09:17 Alias__ What does perl Makefile.PL say
09:17 Alias__ If it doesn't list anything missing, you might be ok
09:17 Alias__ Padre does a SHITLOAD of very very late run-time require'ing
09:17 Alias__ To try and keep the memory overheads down
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09:20 kreetrapper where would I run perl Makefile.PL?
09:21 kreetrapper in ~/.cpan/build/Padre ?
09:22 Alias__ From the cpan shell, you can use the little-known look command
09:22 Alias__ cpan> look Padre
09:22 Alias__ It will drop you into the distro build root automatically
09:22 Alias__ In a shell
09:22 Alias__ And you do whatever you like and exit back to the cpan shell when you are done
09:23 kreetrapper okay
09:23 kreetrapper uh, I did look Padre, and now I get
09:23 kreetrapper "Unsatisfied dependencies detected"
09:23 kreetrapper Maybe now everything will be alright
09:24 Alias__ oh dear...
09:24 kreetrapper I agree
09:24 kreetrapper I ran perl Makefile.PL and got a huge list of missing modules
09:25 kreetrapper oh, no, sorry
09:25 kreetrapper It's actually only one module
09:25 kreetrapper the one that was reported as a failed dependency
09:25 kreetrapper should I force install that and try again?
09:26 kreetrapper it's Alien::wxWidget
09:26 Penfold that's always a PITA to install.
09:26 kreetrapper wtf?
09:26 kreetrapper "No objects found of any type for argument Alien::wxWidget"
09:27 kreetrapper What does that mean?
09:29 kreetrapper Ah, it's Widget_s_
09:30 kreetrapper "sudo: ./Build: command not found"
09:30 kreetrapper That"s fun
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09:31 waxhead evening everyone
09:37 kreetrapper I think I did it
09:37 kreetrapper perl Makefile.PL does not complain about missing modules anymore.
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09:37 kreetrapper Thanks for your help Alias_
09:39 waxhead hey Alias__ how goes the govt hacking?
09:40 Alias__ http://ali.as/crimealert
09:40 kreetrapper c u later
09:40 Alias__ later
09:40 waxhead kreetrapper, cya
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09:41 waxhead ooo pretty...
09:41 waxhead are you going to have a more visual interface after mashup?
09:42 Alias__ The problem is the data
09:42 Alias__ It might not look it, but the data for this is utterly cutting edge
09:42 Alias__ i.e. We're using data that was never designed for this purpose, that we managed to convince the crime lab we should be allowed to have
09:42 waxhead how so?
09:43 waxhead really?
09:43 waxhead impressive...
09:43 Alias__ And we had to pay them per-hour statistician costs to get it
09:43 waxhead I know how hard it can be to get data and that's from internal system owners!
09:43 Alias__ The original analysis was only designed to produce a pixelated heat map for a PDF report
09:44 Alias__ And it was only for the consumption of residents of a single local government area
09:44 waxhead how does the charging work?  surely it's just a dump of the database?
09:44 Alias__ Each map was created manually
09:44 Alias__ In desktop geodata tools
09:44 Alias__ "The database" is the COPS database
09:44 Alias__ Which is the electronic record of every single crime committed in NSW for the past 7 years
09:45 Alias__ i.e. The master police database
09:45 waxhead how is the location information stored?
09:45 Alias__ One crime at a time, in an address
09:45 waxhead or are you using street address and mapping that via some geo thingy?
09:45 Alias__ They did it
09:46 waxhead oh, that's handy then..
09:46 Alias__ They too every single crime in 2008 and overlayed them
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09:46 Alias__ Well, that's how they made their pixel heat map thing
09:46 Alias__ Which looks pretty, but is completely stuck inside a PDF report
09:46 waxhead right, and you added a "time" dimension to it?
09:47 Alias__ The report provides the time of the week profiles for each crime type within that particular electorate
09:47 Alias__ er, LGA
09:47 Alias__ And the map shows the RELATIVE intensity of crime, again within that LGA
09:48 Alias__ All they did, by hand, was take the same heat map report, find the standard deviation boundaries, and encode that as a shape file
09:48 Alias__ We do all the actual resolution
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09:48 Alias__ But the data came will certain caveats
09:48 Alias__ Things we're not allowed to do
09:49 Alias__ Like, for example, we're not allowed to use the specific word "risk" anywhere
09:49 Alias__ And we're not allowed to show two maps touching each other along an edge
09:49 Alias__ (Which is fine, because we could only afford to pay for 2, and we got one city + one country)
09:50 Alias__ Like I said, we didn't thing the government would release this stuff at all
09:50 Alias__ Normally they just do per-local gov averages, to protect anonymity
09:50 Alias__ And for police resourcing and funding uses
09:50 Alias__ This stuff is really new, even for them
09:50 Alias__ They only do about 45 out of the 100 local governments so far
09:50 Alias__ Even in their report
09:51 Alias__ But if they are willing to push down to this level of detail, the capabilities are really interesting
09:51 Alias__ This being the most obvious one
09:51 Alias__ You could travel anywhere in the state as a tourist, and know which bits of each town are the nasty bits
09:52 Alias__ Or find the little clusters of housing that just happen to have almost no crime
09:52 szbalint yeah, I'd love something like that for my area aswell
09:52 szbalint especially filtered by types of crime
09:53 Alias__ The original PDF reports have 14 different categories
09:53 Alias__ We paid for the most interesting 4
09:57 waxhead hmmm.. still, while interesting, what does it mean when the information is commoditised?
09:57 waxhead ie, you can now sell the place for more value.. or I guess it could lower it's value as the corrollory of that is your house is too crap to break into
09:57 szbalint cheaper house prices near hookers. Win-win
09:58 waxhead hahaha...
09:58 waxhead sure..
10:02 waxhead ha.. the Padre web site need revamping...
10:02 Alias__ You're telling me
10:02 Alias__ PLEASE do so
10:02 waxhead classic problem, functional but not so pretty web site...
10:02 Alias__ I asked people to do a nice pretty site
10:03 Alias__ Then a threesome of rampaging FORM SEPARATE TO FUNCTION CSS EVERYTHING AND ALL HTML GENERATED FROM YAML FILES VIA TEMPLATES people landed
10:03 Alias__ They believe content should be separated from presentation more than they believe that things shouldn't be ugly
10:04 Alias__ In submersible's defense, he was the data pipeline guy for a special effects company, so I think he has a particular hatred of pretty "bit bashing"
10:04 waxhead for the most part if it's done with CSS throughout it should be possible to use CSS to make it look nicer
10:04 Alias__ You'd think so, right?
10:04 waxhead sure...  you'd think so..
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10:05 waxhead ever seen that css zen garden site?
10:05 Alias__ FFS
10:05 Alias__ I hate that site
10:05 waxhead same html so many different layouts...
10:05 waxhead why?
10:05 waxhead it does prove a point...
10:05 Alias__ It proves that CSS is completely awesome for doing one page broucherware sites
10:05 waxhead but I'm yet to really love css
10:05 Alias__ Note that Zen garden doesn't even make people stretch to two pages
10:06 Alias__ Or, say, dynamic content
10:06 waxhead ah.. this is true.. one page.. start adding in tables and different look tables and the css files get larger than the html
10:06 Alias__ And buggier
10:06 Alias__ You know how CSS tends to "tear"
10:06 Alias__ Stuff escapes bounding areas
10:06 waxhead yep... "Hmmm what freaking class are we using to make the cell look skinner"...
10:07 Alias__ right
10:07 Alias__ Nightmare
10:07 waxhead ya
10:07 Alias__ I think Zen Garden has caused more damage seducing otherwise normal people into CSS hell that it has done good proving CSS is good
10:07 waxhead and then what's worse is you never get rid of stuff because you're never really sure what effect it may have
10:08 waxhead and then there's the pain of different renderers
10:08 waxhead So what's the solution?  simply the html?
10:08 waxhead erm.. css
10:09 waxhead either way, it's really something someone with an eye for colour and layout will do well
10:09 waxhead I htink yellow on blue looks nice..
10:10 Alias__ Personally?
10:11 Alias__ I still end up using HTML tables a lot of the time
10:11 Alias__ I try to use CSS with a light touch
10:11 Alias__ Or at least only for the kinds of things in CSS 1
10:13 waxhead it's the safest bet I guess
11:02 shadowpaste "zenog" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "test failur with RELEASE_TESTING=1 and AUTOMATED_TESTING=1" (11 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/41160
11:02 zenog Hi, I don't really get what's going wrong there.
11:02 zenog s/failur/failure/
11:03 waxhead zenog, it's already a ticket...
11:03 waxhead the problem is the way the dialog is asking for parts of Padre that aren't available becuase a "full" Padre is not running
11:04 Hyppolit svn: r11167 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11167
11:04 Hyppolit improved document statistics dialog: margins, proper updates (layout and document changes)
11:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
11:05 waxhead I wonder if the icon changes azawawi made also make it look nicer in Ubuntu task switcher?
11:05 Sewi ping getty
11:05 waxhead anyway, the ugly big icon is now gone..
11:05 waxhead hey Sewi
11:06 waxhead #902
11:06 Hyppolit #902: Test Failure - xt/badcode.t (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/902 ]
11:06 waxhead #903
11:06 Hyppolit #903: Test Failure - xt/compile.t (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/903 ]
11:06 zenog waxhead: icon looks blurry in the Ubuntu task switcher.
11:06 waxhead yeah, still looks blurry, but before that it was big and ugly
11:07 zenog waxhead: But it looks good in the task bar.
11:07 waxhead yeah it does..
11:09 zenog I wonder whether I introduced this in r11110
11:09 Hyppolit Changeset #11110 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11110
11:09 zenog ... will check that. I don't understand the output of the test program, though.
11:17 zenog nope, was already there before my changes
11:17 Hyppolit #902: Test Failure - xt/badcode.t (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/902#comment:1 ]
11:19 Hyppolit #903: Test Failure - xt/compile.t (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/903#comment:1 ]
11:24 zenog Is there way for an Wx button to have flexible width so that longer captions fit in there?
11:57 Hyppolit svn: r11168 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11168
11:57 Hyppolit improved "Open URL" dialog: mark example as such, set focus to input field
11:57 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
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11:58 Opus_Diaboli latest version of Padre -> unstable like hell
11:59 Hyppolit svn: r11169 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11169
11:59 Hyppolit document statistics dialog: set focus to update button
11:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
11:59 zenog Hi Opus_Diaboli
12:00 Opus_Diaboli Hi zenog
12:00 zenog Opus_Diaboli: Which version do you use? The one from SVN, or the one from CPAN, or some package?
12:01 Opus_Diaboli I use the "experimental stand alone" from the Padre website
12:01 Opus_Diaboli 5.11.4
12:01 Opus_Diaboli 0.55
12:01 Opus_Diaboli sorry
12:02 Opus_Diaboli well, I'm a perl beginner looking for a reliable editor. Padre seems to be very good but it crashes quite often
12:03 zenog Opus_Diaboli: The Linux one?
12:03 Opus_Diaboli yep
12:05 zenog I would suggest to use the version from the subversion repository, or the CPAN one (0.58).
12:06 zenog They work fine for me.
12:06 Opus_Diaboli Okay. I'm not very familiar with CPAN. Can I just download it from there?
12:06 zenog However, they are more difficult to install. This is something that is not perfect yet.
12:06 Opus_Diaboli oh
12:07 zenog I don't want to discourage you ;-)
12:07 Opus_Diaboli ah you don't :)
12:07 zenog I think it is worth the effort.
12:08 Opus_Diaboli okay, I'll try it
12:09 Opus_Diaboli BTW: would you recommend to read "programming in Perl" although it's quite old?
12:10 zenog Opus_Diaboli: I learned Perl with that book, but I was not happy about it at the time.
12:11 zenog Opus_Diaboli: There is "Learning Perl", which may be nicer (I just heard that).
12:11 Opus_Diaboli why not?
12:12 Opus_Diaboli yes, I just read "Learning perl" but unfortunately my edition is very old as well, referring to perl 5.06
12:12 zenog Opus_Diaboli: I think it has a strange style and presents many things in a much too complicated way, while presenting language features/styles that should not be used (IMHO).
12:12 zenog Opus_Diaboli: As long it is Perl 5, it should be okay.
12:12 Opus_Diaboli okay
12:13 zenog I like "Perl Best Practices", which is more advanced - it expects that you already know some Perl.
12:13 zenog Which you do, I guess, if you read "Learning Perl".
12:13 zenog http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download
12:14 Opus_Diaboli I might get a cheap copy of "Programming in Perl" from eBay
12:14 zenog ... tells you how to install from CPAN under "Source code"
12:14 zenog Opus_Diaboli: It is nice as a reference, I still have my copy.
12:14 Opus_Diaboli thanks :)
12:15 zenog I'll have lunch now, but if you run into problems with the CPAN installation, just ask for help here, I hope someone else will be able to help.
12:15 zenog ... or me, later.
12:16 Hyppolit svn: r11170 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11170
12:16 Hyppolit updated German translation
12:16 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
12:17 Opus_Diaboli thanks and bye
12:18 zenog np
12:21 Hyppolit svn: r11171 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11171
12:21 Hyppolit removed unnecessary event handling code (is covered by default behaviour)
12:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
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12:54 azawawi waxhead: ping
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13:51 zenog hi tlb
13:55 tlb hi
13:58 Sewi Hi tlb
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14:39 zenog hi wallmari patspam Sewi
14:42 Sewi hi zenog
15:19 Hyppolit #895: wishlist: marking of search results in the text and in the scrollbar (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/895#comment:1 ]
15:54 zenog Is there a particular reason why there is no C# and Java syntax highlighting support in Java?
16:21 Hyppolit #763: folding doesn't work anymore (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/763#comment:3 ]
16:27 Hyppolit #905: wishlist: folding for use statements (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/905 ]
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16:58 Hyppolit #763: folding doesn't work anymore (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/763#comment:4 ]
17:24 Hyppolit svn: r11172 | jagd++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11172
17:24 Hyppolit fix chinese translation
17:24 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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17:58 Hyppolit svn: r11173 | jagd++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11173
17:58 Hyppolit remove crash for "Goto Bookmark"
17:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
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18:52 Hyppolit #888: Padre crashing when looking for bookmark (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/888#comment:2 ]
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20:59 rindolf Hi all.
20:59 mib_oi709q how do you use <STDIN> in padre?
20:59 rindolf mib_oi709q: inside a script you edit?
21:00 rindolf mib_oi709q: or do you want to pipe some stuff there?
21:00 mib_oi709q when running a script how do you input
21:00 mib_oi709q ?
21:01 mib_oi709q also how do you kill a running program in padre?
21:28 rindolf jq: «A requested package cannot be installed: perl-Padre-Plugin-Perl6-0.630.0-1mdv2010.1.noarch (due to unsatisfied perl(Padre::QuickFixProvider))» when trying to install Padre.
21:54 rindolf Oh mib_oi left.
21:57 rindolf In any case one can kill a running program using Run -> Stop Execution.
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