Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-04-03

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Time Nick Message
00:03 Hyppolit svn: r11281 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11281
00:03 Hyppolit Keep our defaults instead of expecting unknown foreign defaults to exist or work
00:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/File/
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00:57 Hyppolit svn: r11282 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11282
00:57 Hyppolit Add interactive methods for usage within templates and simplify the creation of new modules.
00:57 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Util/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/share/templates/
01:18 Sewi Hi walter
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09:07 zenog Sewi: (about passwords should be part of the URL) this is one way to do it, but maybe we should not impose to the user the way they want to access stuff.
09:07 zenog I guess users expect that they can enter a URL and then it just works, i.e. if they have to additionally provide a user name/password, the system should just prompt them to do so.
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09:23 zenog hi Steffen
09:24 Steffen Hi.
09:58 Hyppolit svn: r11283 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11283
09:58 Hyppolit added test case for unicode search
09:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
09:59 zenog There is still one strange thing with the UTF-8 matching
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10:01 zenog The positions don't seem to be character positions.
10:04 zenog Also, there are two functions that do the same: Padre::Util::get_matches and Padre::Search::matches
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12:27 Sewi zenog: That URL entering thing is still far away from what we should have :-( VLC has a nice interface for opening different protocol locations but we should also have some kind of cache or manageable file/host/project list
12:41 El_Che I love vlc, but it is no winner regarding GUIs
12:43 Sewi no
12:47 Sewi But it's open dialog is highly flexible
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12:53 Hyppolit #918: "Reload files" dialog will constantly reopen and nag if there is a deleted file (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/918 ]
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18:38 l0t hello
18:41 Sewi hi
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18:51 Sewi Hi zenog
19:06 zenog Hi Sewi
19:19 zenog When I try to set a breakpoint, I get the message "Debugger not running".
19:20 Sewi Yeah, the debugger currently only supports breakpoints while it's running...
19:21 zenog hm.
19:22 zenog And how do I start the debugger?
19:22 Sewi Just graded you edit permissions to the wiki
19:22 Sewi Use one of the debugger icons, maybe the first to step to the first program line
19:22 zenog ... to prevent me from changing 'dangerous' pages?
19:22 zenog ;-)
19:23 zenog ah
19:24 zenog grey window ... no output any more ...
19:31 zenog Okay, now it works ...
19:32 zenog So any of the first three options in the Debug menu will start the debugger?
19:32 zenog Then I'd just change the error message to a more informative one ...
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20:28 dkulchenko How can I tell Padre where my project's Catalyst directory is? (I have the plugin installed and enabled) I want to have a directory panel, like in this screenshot: http://sn.im/v8jb7
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20:36 Sewi Put a empty padre.yml file into the project root dir
20:37 dkulchenko Sewi: then what do i do?
20:40 Sewi Create a empty file called "padre.yml" and save it into your project root dir
20:41 dkulchenko Sewi: right, i did that. then how do i load the project in?
20:41 Sewi You're done.
20:41 Sewi Just open a file out of the project, Padre does everything else for you
20:41 Sewi You could use the session feature (file menu) to save your project into a session
20:42 dkulchenko hmm, but how can I tell that it's been loaded as a project? the view seems no different
20:43 Sewi Did you enable the directory panel (View menu)
20:43 Sewi 6st option from top
20:44 dkulchenko ahhh there it is. thanks!
20:44 Sewi Could you tell me a good place where to start with catalyst? Or a open source project build on it?
20:46 dkulchenko well, I started out here: http://search.cpan.org/~hkclark/Catalyst-Man​ual-5.8004/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial.pod
20:46 dkulchenko Catalyst::Manual has a lot of POD sub-modules with tutorials for doing almost anything with atalyst
20:46 dkulchenko *Catalyst
20:47 Sewi thanks
20:47 dkulchenko np
20:52 Getty Catalyst is hard ;) hehe
20:52 Getty especially the part about doing it right
20:57 dkulchenko Getty: i don't think Catalyst is that hard, but of course, I am putting almost everything into my controllers, which would make any good Catalyst programmer want to kill me ;)
20:57 Getty hehe
20:57 Getty yeah you see
20:58 Getty lets say: if you take some stupid php framework its easier, but even tho, you got just crap behind, thats the difference, i still say hat Catalyst / Template::Toolkit needs LOTS OF SUGAR
20:58 Getty s/hat/that/
20:58 dkulchenko s/Template::Toolkit/Mason/ ;)
20:59 Getty n00b
20:59 Getty even tho, i will not say anything about template engines on perl
20:59 Getty ok wait
20:59 Getty i wanna do it:
20:59 dkulchenko i like Mason cause it lets me cheat
20:59 Getty they all suck
20:59 dkulchenko well, i guess
21:00 Getty i know just one engine which got more worst template engines, and that is java, and even there i would discuss what has the biggest shit
21:00 Getty s/engine/language/
21:00 dkulchenko yeah
21:00 Getty and i think its important to say it and stand to it
21:00 Getty cause perl people tend to feel that Template::Toolkit is THE solutio
21:00 Getty n
21:00 dkulchenko I use Mason because of my laziness. i do a lot of nice database queries in my Mason templates... ;)
21:01 Getty die
21:01 Getty just die
21:01 Getty ;)
21:01 dkulchenko exactly, that's what i said about catalyst programmers wanting to kill me ;)
21:01 Getty i kill you
21:01 Getty and i'm no MVC fighter
21:01 Getty its like the dude who made a JS lib for executing query on the database of the project
21:01 Getty you are near to that
21:02 dkulchenko wow
21:02 Getty sorry to say
21:02 Getty whatever MVC dudes say, there is one important thing that is always important:
21:02 Getty split execution from the display
21:03 Getty MVC follow that even more massive, but if you are not caring about it, then you must minimum accept this
21:03 Getty you are just making it more worst for you
21:03 dkulchenko well, i'd end up having to pull data structures in my controller, pass them on to my Mason template, and use a large number of if statements and such in my Mason code
21:03 Getty not really
21:03 Getty "make it right"
21:03 Getty if you do "queries" right now in the template
21:03 Getty there is not much difference
21:03 Getty put the "query" in the controller and assign the result has
21:04 Getty wouldnt be much change in your code
21:04 Getty just one "move"
21:04 Getty put the "query" in the controller and assign the result has hashref
21:04 Getty sorry
21:04 Getty put the "query" in the controller and assign the result as hashref
21:04 Getty damn it!
21:05 dkulchenko okay. here's an example. suppose i have a emails counter. at the top of the screen, i have a link that says 'emails (3)' the 3 is calculated with $c->model('DB::Emails')->sear​ch($c->user->userid)->count. i think it's much more readable to have <% that %> in my HTML than have to put that in my controller, pass it through the stash, and then write <% $counter %>. because if i later look at the code, I'll have to trace it back,
21:05 dkulchenko look through a few files to figure out where the code is.
21:07 Getty may i show you something edenc gave me yesterday? ;)
21:07 dkulchenko sure
21:07 Getty my $view = $c->view('TT'); $c->stash->{menu} = sub { $view->render($c, 'menu.tt', $model->data) }
21:07 Getty [% menu %]
21:08 dkulchenko hmm
21:08 Getty you can abstract that down even
21:08 dkulchenko trying to parse that...
21:08 Getty $c->stash->{menu} = $model->data)
21:08 Getty $c->stash->{menu} = $model->data;
21:08 Getty and then [% PROCESS menu.tpl %] which uses [% menu... %]
21:08 Getty to make it more clean
21:08 dkulchenko wait. why did you assign a coderef to the stash?
21:08 Getty or somehow other way clean
21:09 Getty its ab abstraction trick
21:09 Getty its not 100% cool but its much more cool
21:09 dkulchenko ah ok
21:09 Getty so you can just use [% menu %]
21:09 Getty and it got its own template, its own stash and its own "controll code"
21:09 Getty its much more flexibel
21:09 Getty and cause that code is still in the controller
21:09 Getty its all save
21:09 Getty just ONE stuff i still have to discuss with edenc
21:09 Getty but i dont tell you for now
21:10 Getty just giving you a hint that there are more solutions then you think
21:10 dkulchenko yeah
21:10 Getty its not that hard to avoid queries inside the template
21:10 Getty its more about.. lets say...
21:10 Getty i can give you a personal hint i always predicted to myself
21:10 Getty dont know if a MVC dude would support that this hard
21:10 dkulchenko okay
21:11 Getty but think about that you ONLY give to the template: HASHREF, String, Integer, ARRAYREF
21:11 Getty no objects
21:11 Getty no methods
21:11 Getty nothing
21:11 Getty of course you can use as much helper functions
21:11 Getty but you dont attach them to the object
21:11 Getty MVC dude woudlnt 100% underline that its wise to NOT use objects in template
21:11 Getty but its a good training in my eyes to understand more the splitting
21:11 dkulchenko right. only data, which is the "right" way, but it's not the easy way
21:11 Getty lets say
21:12 Getty i see more and more
21:12 Getty if i follow MVC
21:12 Getty its getting really abstracted and more easy to manage
21:12 Getty we are both clear that "same code" spreaded over "more files" is better then "same code" inside "few files", or?
21:12 Getty makes reusing much easier
21:13 dkulchenko well, here's a simple fact that's made abstraction difficult for me. suppose i want to abstract a lot of my controller code into a model. in order to do that, I'll have to load MyApp::Schema from the model, then use $schema->resultset, and pass everything from userid to query parameters in the form of a hash to my Model function
21:14 dkulchenko makes it a lot less convienent than if i just keep the code in my controller and use $c, right?
21:14 Getty lol
21:14 Getty let me paste 2 lines from the chat with edenc yesterday
21:15 dkulchenko ok
21:17 Getty damn it
21:17 Getty cant find it
21:17 Getty lets say....
21:17 Getty if you move more code into the model
21:17 Getty you are on a good way
21:18 Getty you just need to be sure that your model doesnt care one bit about the view
21:18 Getty then you are on a good trend
21:18 Getty more model, model doesnt know about views
21:18 Getty that is a good trend for a dude who did it wrong before
21:18 Getty like i did
21:18 dkulchenko okay
21:18 Getty and probably for you important
21:18 Getty :
21:18 Getty view doesnt know about model ;)
21:19 Getty SQL/Database = Model
21:19 dkulchenko yes
21:19 Getty View + SQL/Database = Wrong
21:19 dkulchenko yeah, big issue for me there...
21:19 Getty you just THINK its an issue
21:19 Getty you are scared
21:19 Getty i would say you are a p***y, and just dont try
21:19 Getty ;)
21:19 Getty but hey, i was also one, or i'm always on my way from that to a man, so....
21:20 dkulchenko haha :)
21:20 dkulchenko and by issue i didn't mean something that's hard to fix, i meant something i do wrong
21:20 Getty yeah ok
21:20 Getty i know its hard
21:20 Getty and i know there can be more sugar
21:20 Getty i try to find it
21:20 Getty i'm a sugar junkie
21:21 Getty sugar is always the right way, 100% sure
21:21 Getty but its hard to define sugar that is not glitchy and disallow "next steps"
21:21 Getty its hard to make sugar with trying to avoid conventions, which also blocks "next steps"
21:22 Getty even tho, if i think of POE, sometimes not having conventions makes a big f*** up ;)
21:22 dkulchenko yeah
21:23 Getty but hey we are developers
21:23 Getty and i think its always important to see it as 2 fronts
21:23 Getty you need guys who WANTS clean clear concepts
21:23 Getty so that the other front, the sugar dudes, can try to make sugar for it
21:23 Getty Moose wouldnt be productive without Class::MOP
21:23 dkulchenko what exactly do you mean by sugar?
21:23 Getty you know Moose?
21:23 dkulchenko yes
21:24 Getty you know the difference of Moose to Class::MOP? how involved Class::MOP is in Moose?
21:24 dkulchenko nope, i don't
21:24 Getty ok let me explain it to you, its somehow a good reference
21:24 dkulchenko alright
21:24 Getty cause technical, Moose isnt that genius how it looks (somehow)
21:25 Getty cause what you find most "attractive" are the features of Class::MOP that Moose uses
21:25 zenog sugar = no additional functionality, but existing functionality is easier accessible.
21:25 Getty zenog: yeah, let me explain it through
21:25 Getty zenog: cause i think knowing what class::mop has todo with moose is anyway good knoqledge
21:26 Getty mompls
21:27 Getty ok so.. you know has, or?
21:28 dkulchenko yeah
21:28 Getty so has is.... i must say, really nothing
21:28 Getty it just calls ->add_attribute on some Class::MOP function
21:28 Getty and maps the style a bit cooler
21:28 Getty its really nothing more
21:28 dkulchenko yep
21:30 Getty thats sugar :)
21:32 dkulchenko ah, i gotcha
21:33 dkulchenko so just a creative wrapper around something else?
21:34 Getty yeah
21:34 Getty that makes a "cooler API"
21:34 Getty "more intelligent API"
21:34 Getty but of course there is a risk
21:34 Getty lets say.... for example
21:34 Getty if Moose would say, that it "wraps" the name of the attribute
21:34 Getty to moose_$attributename
21:34 Getty that would be a convention
21:34 Getty what happens? Class::MOP features probably doesnt work anymore with it
21:35 Getty cause they run against that convention
21:35 Getty ok probably bad example
21:35 Getty but i think you get the point
21:35 Getty sugar can be risky
21:35 Getty a good example: a bad Database ORM, forces you to make an "id" row into your table
21:35 Getty cause it 100% suggest it
21:35 Getty so its a convention
21:35 Getty if you get something that uses table_id as id row, it cant work together with the ORM
21:36 Getty convention blocks invention
21:36 Getty the ORM think its cool cause you dont need to mention the "id"-row of the database in the config
21:36 Getty but it excludes cooperation
21:36 dkulchenko right
21:37 Getty so its a ....
21:37 Getty lets say...
21:37 Getty "dancing act"
21:37 Getty other example is POE
21:37 Getty you know POE?
21:41 dkulchenko yes
21:42 Getty you know the problem about binding functions to events?
21:42 Getty that its different hard if you are more functional then being more object orientated?
21:42 dkulchenko nope
21:42 Getty the POE::Components doesnt have a convention about event mapping
21:42 Getty some are just capable of mapping functions
21:42 Getty some can do the standard way of POE of mapping to "objects"
21:43 Getty that makes it very hard to make stuff on POE that uses several components
21:43 Getty its hard to combine them
21:43 Getty also the instantation is different
21:43 dkulchenko yeah
21:43 Getty POE::Component::Client::HTTP is 100% indepedent
21:43 Getty and one is called over POE::Kernel->trigger() or how that function was called
21:43 Getty ah wait, ->yield()
21:43 Getty exactly
21:43 Getty other POE::Components, are giving you back an object
21:43 Getty which got methods for the features
21:44 Getty so you must work different
21:44 Getty that is a "bad missing convention" somehow
21:44 Getty even tho: POE is old... its historical, not a real planning fault
21:45 dkulchenko but what else is there?
21:45 dkulchenko (other than POE)
21:45 Getty oh oh stop
21:45 Getty ;)
21:45 Getty POE is awesome cause there is so much done for it
21:45 Getty there are many many other new frameworks which want todo the same
21:45 Getty but... but.....
21:45 Getty i dont want to say anything right now
21:45 Getty all are in heavy development and hardly production proved
21:45 Getty POE is good
21:45 dkulchenko yeah
21:45 Getty <jedimove>
21:46 Getty that is just a failure of it, a problem
21:46 Getty nothing that makes it totally worthless
21:46 Getty just more hard
21:46 dkulchenko yeah, i gotcha
21:46 dkulchenko from their website: "It is the first, most mature, and sometimes only Perl framework to do so." ;)
21:47 Getty lol ;)
21:47 Getty POE is awesome
21:48 Getty i must say... Moose made me hot for perl, but POE made me use it
21:48 Getty so yes, i praise perigrin for making MooseX::POE
21:48 dkulchenko i learned about Moose 6 years after I began using Perl, POE 7 :P
21:48 Getty i just use perl since 2 1/2 year
21:48 Getty and i just use Moose since 1 1/2 year and POE the same
21:49 dkulchenko i'm 14 years old ;)
21:49 Getty but i must say: it is what i always suggested
21:49 Getty dude, so cool
21:49 Getty :)
21:49 dkulchenko haha thanks :)
21:49 Getty so its good that you get some words of wisdom ;)
21:49 Getty dont run into the same faults
21:49 Getty be happy that you know POE and Moose
21:49 dkulchenko yeah
21:50 dkulchenko the one thing I don't like about Moose is that it's difficult to use in a non-persistent environment
21:50 Getty define?
21:50 Getty i dont see this
21:50 Getty but tell me why you think so
21:50 dkulchenko startup times
21:50 Getty oh
21:51 Getty mh
21:51 Getty lets say
21:51 dkulchenko Moose takes quite a while to load
21:51 Getty sorry had disconnect
21:51 Getty gimme an example of a non-persistent environment that have disadvantages for that and i give you 10 lines of perl to change that
21:52 Getty s/for/out of
21:52 Getty s/for/out of/
21:53 dkulchenko okay. suppose we're installing on legacy Apache win32 without mod_fcgid. so we're forced to write a web application using CGI, which is slow in and of itself.
21:54 Getty wtf?
21:54 Getty so you tell me you wanna go to stone age?
21:54 Getty ij
21:54 Getty ok
21:54 Getty i give you solution:
21:54 dkulchenko you asked for an environment ;)
21:54 Getty POE::Component::IKC
21:54 Getty you make a POE environment next to the CGI environment
21:54 Getty and the CGI environment just fetches from that env
21:54 Getty i win
21:54 Getty next
21:54 Getty if you tell me, you got ONLY CGI and NO next to it shell
21:54 Getty then you are doomed out of concept
21:55 dkulchenko yeah, you're right
21:55 dkulchenko hmm
21:55 Getty of course you are right
21:55 Getty if you got that RARE case
21:55 Getty then it COULD be good to avoid it
21:55 Getty BUT....
21:55 Getty tell me... what is so important to be so fast that you need to avoid Moose AND dont have enough money to get the proper environment?
21:56 Getty "no match"
21:56 dkulchenko good point...
21:56 Getty i make my first perl project now
21:56 Getty i mean
21:56 Getty commercial project that i do 100% with perl
21:56 Getty and i just do it cause i got a 100% server totally independent for it
21:56 Getty the apache and all is ONLY for that project
21:56 Getty so i can do whatever required
21:56 Getty so i can do whatever required
21:56 dkulchenko ah. i had much less satisfactory conditions with my client a week ago
21:56 Getty shit why 2 times? i really typed it 2 times
21:57 dkulchenko he put my on Win2003 Server, IIS 6.0. and i had to install my Catalyst app there. FastCGI no worky
21:57 Getty then you dont get enough money for the quality
21:57 Getty holy shit
21:57 Getty he should die
21:57 dkulchenko ended up using HTTP::Prefork with ISAPI forwarding from IIS dir to a port
21:57 Getty nothing else to say
21:57 dkulchenko i know, it was awful
21:57 Getty yeah
21:57 Getty its a stupid client case
21:58 dkulchenko yeah, they also had an ASP.NET app they had to run on the same site. hence the IIS
21:58 dkulchenko they also gave me 512MB of RAM *sob*
21:58 Getty dude
21:58 dkulchenko fortunately, they increased it after I begged
21:58 Getty use the 512 MB of ram
21:58 Getty run a vmware
21:58 Getty and be happy
21:58 dkulchenko no, i meant 512mb of RAM for the whole server
21:59 Getty yeah
21:59 Getty gimme a server with 512 MB ram and windows
21:59 dkulchenko which means around 60mb available for *me*. my Perl server which kept terminating because it was out of memory *sob*
21:59 Getty and i still use a vmware on that with linux more productive then trying to work on the windows
22:00 dkulchenko i never even touched win2003 before a week ago, i've worked with only linux all my life. then they force me to work on that inferior piece of s**t
22:00 Getty lol
22:00 dkulchenko gaaah
22:00 dkulchenko </rant>
22:00 Getty i got windows on my workstation
22:00 Getty and i'm not scared to say that
22:00 dkulchenko wow. how do you manage...
22:00 zenog btw guys, is a there already some Moose support in Padre?
22:00 Getty zenog: it shows attributes
22:00 Getty zenog: automatically
22:00 Getty zenog: more i dont know
22:00 dkulchenko http://jquelin.blogspot.com/2009/06/be​ginning-of-moose-support-in-padre.html
22:01 Getty dkulchenko: its easy
22:01 Getty dkulchenko: i buy some hardware, stick it in, and it works
22:01 Getty dkulchenko: spares me 10 days per year
22:01 Getty dkulchenko: new install of windows takes 5-6 days per year
22:01 dkulchenko Getty: are we talking about windows here?
22:01 Getty and i can communicate with all friends who use windows
22:01 Getty and i can understand windows problems more easily
22:01 Getty so good for job
22:01 zenog Getty: nice. still a long way to go tool-support wise
22:01 Getty so under the line: i win
22:02 Getty dkulchenko: yeah
22:02 Getty dkulchenko: if you know the devil you can play with it
22:02 Getty dkulchenko: i know the devil very good..............
22:02 dkulchenko Getty: but why can't you avoid the devil?
22:02 Getty reality
22:02 Getty friends
22:03 Getty telling stupid: what is more hot for a girl? a guy who can fix her windows PC or a guy who installs linux on it? ;)
22:03 dkulchenko ah can't poke a hole in that :P
22:04 Getty hehe
22:04 Getty its an extreme reason
22:04 Getty but lets say.. life is much easier somehow
22:04 Getty i would never put any important data on a windows
22:04 Getty so just to be clear
22:04 dkulchenko but that's not my point :P i can fix anyone's windows PC, i just chose to use Linux instead
22:04 dkulchenko yeah
22:04 Getty i always have a vmware for development and a real linux server in my LAN
22:04 Getty so its just "workstation"
22:04 Getty like a terminal
22:04 dkulchenko ah okay
22:05 Getty and trust me
22:05 Getty i can fix more then you
22:05 dkulchenko won't argue with you ;)
22:05 Getty cause a dude who uses linux as workstation is not as good as a dude who has the same problems then the windows user
22:06 Getty lets take a serious theme
22:06 dkulchenko but isn't it common knowledge that windows "is easier to use than" linux?
22:06 Getty what video player you would suggest a windows user?
22:06 Getty let me guess: VLC?
22:06 dkulchenko VLC
22:06 dkulchenko yes
22:06 Getty failure
22:06 Getty VLC has one problem
22:06 Getty it "fakes"
22:06 dkulchenko why? it superior to anything else out there
22:06 dkulchenko how does it fake?
22:06 Getty it renders down
22:07 dkulchenko hmm?
22:07 Getty if you take a Full HD video on VLC
22:07 Getty you dont get Full HD
22:07 Getty you get some interpolation
22:07 Getty that fits
22:07 dkulchenko ah. i had no idea.
22:07 Getty so that VLC doesnt needs much power
22:07 Getty it fakes
22:07 Getty if you take Media Player Classic with real windows codecs you get full quality
22:07 Getty of course you dont know
22:07 Getty cause on linux you just got probably mplayer who can do it right
22:07 Getty on linux VLC is owerpower
22:07 Getty cause it doenst need to "f*** around" with lots of stuff
22:07 Getty it just works
22:07 Getty awesome
22:07 dkulchenko i don't use mplayer. it's more complicated than vlc
22:08 Getty btw: VLC is still important on windows cause you need it for playing all porn ;)
22:08 dkulchenko i use vlc on both platforms
22:08 dkulchenko haha :)
22:08 Getty but still
22:08 Getty if you watch HD
22:08 Getty dont use VLC
22:08 Getty its wrong
22:08 dkulchenko okay
22:08 dkulchenko okay, give me another theme :P
22:08 Getty i just tell it cause i needed 2 years to realize it
22:08 Getty i used VLC like you 2 years
22:08 Getty till someone told me about it
22:08 dkulchenko yeah
22:08 Getty and i tested it
22:08 Getty and saw it myself
22:09 Getty i would have never realized it with a linux
22:09 Getty cause noone would have shown me
22:09 Getty <point>
22:09 Getty i win
22:09 dkulchenko yeah
22:09 Getty sorry ;)
22:10 Getty lets say: I'm proud of you using linux as workstation
22:10 dkulchenko haha
22:10 Getty and we need more guys like you
22:10 Getty i just cant stand it
22:10 dkulchenko why not?
22:11 Getty lets say..... i'm lazy and windows default is more satisfing to me then any desktop environment of linux defaults
22:11 Getty and again: friends
22:11 Getty all my friends use windows or macintosh
22:11 Getty they play windows games
22:11 Getty they use windows applications
22:11 Getty we wanna make music together
22:11 dkulchenko that's a very strange reason
22:11 Getty we wanna make stuff together
22:11 dkulchenko that's what WINE is for
22:11 Getty LOL!!!!
22:11 dkulchenko if you *must* use windows apps
22:11 Getty you are funny
22:11 Getty i start laughing now
22:11 dkulchenko oh really. photoshop and GTA work fine on wine
22:12 Getty wine suxx
22:12 Getty battlefield 2 dont
22:12 Getty ;)
22:12 Getty and there are so many "little tools"
22:12 Getty trust me
22:12 Getty i dont want to invest 5-6 years per year for wine
22:12 Getty hey! other example
22:12 dkulchenko i just dual-boot. i have linux running all the time on my desktop, if i need to play Crysis or something like that, i reboot into win7
22:12 Getty i got a UMTS-Stick for internet out of the air
22:13 Getty HAHAHHAHAHAH
22:13 Getty reboot
22:13 Getty you are funny ;)
22:13 dkulchenko wow, how lazy are you? ;)
22:13 Getty i tried the dualboot concept
22:13 Getty i never booted linux up again
22:13 Getty i'm a worker
22:13 Getty i dont care about myself much
22:13 Getty i care more about doing my work and help others
22:13 dkulchenko okay, but what does that have to do with dual booting?
22:14 Getty shut down the IRC client and wait for it to reboot?
22:14 Getty dude!
22:14 Getty i got a vmware with linux
22:14 Getty isnt that enough?
22:14 Getty there i develop my catalyst apps
22:14 dkulchenko ah. i see
22:14 Getty and i would never take a deal with someone who wants a catalyst app on a windows
22:14 Getty or anything from me on a windows server
22:14 Getty i wouldnt do it
22:14 Getty point
22:14 Getty there is "job" and there is "private life"
22:14 dkulchenko that is why i have two computers.
22:14 Getty and "private life" is just a bit easier if you can life with what windows gives you
22:14 Getty and i can life with it
22:15 Getty i got one laptop
22:15 Getty thats all
22:15 Getty and a Pico-ITX linux server
22:15 dkulchenko i have a netbook where i do all of my development, and i have a high-horsepower desktop for gaming.
22:15 Getty and a windows workstation which i barly use cause its old
22:15 Getty netbook.....
22:15 Getty i cant work with that "sh**"
22:15 dkulchenko yes. i develop on my netbook. if that's not a middle finger to society, i don't know what is
22:15 Getty its "golom effect"
22:15 dkulchenko everyone who thinks netbooks are underpowered is severly misinformed
22:16 Getty you know golom?
22:16 dkulchenko nope
22:16 Getty from lord of the rings?
22:16 dkulchenko oh, yeah
22:16 dkulchenko i do
22:16 Getty the dude who wanted the ring
22:16 dkulchenko yep
22:16 Getty you know how he walked?
22:16 dkulchenko yeah
22:16 Getty if you use a netbook you look like a golom
22:16 dkulchenko what?
22:16 dkulchenko oh
22:16 Getty get what i mean? ;)
22:17 dkulchenko yeah, but that's a weak argument...
22:17 Getty i got a 16:10 screen
22:17 Getty 17"
22:17 Getty notebook
22:17 dkulchenko doesn't compensate for the lower price, and increased portability
22:17 Getty if i watch a movie on it, its awesome
22:17 dkulchenko i bet that weighs 6 pounds.
22:17 dkulchenko my netbook weighs 1.2
22:17 Getty harman/kardon sound system
22:17 Getty i dont would put out the netbook
22:17 Getty it still doesnt fit into my pocket of the jacket
22:18 dkulchenko yeah, but it's a lot easier to carry around than a 17" laptop, imo
22:18 Getty yeah but it doesnt makes the point
22:18 Getty i cant develop without 17" really
22:18 Getty or with a real keyboard
22:18 Getty lets say: 13" is fine
22:18 Getty i would take a 13" laptop
22:18 Getty but 10" is too less
22:18 Getty or 11"
22:18 Getty or 12"
22:18 Getty 13" is fine
22:18 Getty but that is not netbook p.d.
22:19 Getty what i find massive attractive: 15" with dualscreen monitor
22:19 dkulchenko well, i can develop fine with 10.1" you know why? cause i use linux. and linux has something windows don't have. workspaces.
22:19 Getty i dont need workspaces
22:19 Getty never used them
22:19 dkulchenko that's what you think
22:19 Getty i got my development always in one task
22:19 Getty like
22:19 Getty padre
22:19 Getty or notepad++
22:19 Getty i dont need workspaces for development
22:19 Getty why you need them?
22:19 Getty oh and of course one browser readyd
22:19 Getty for hitting F5 ;)
22:20 dkulchenko wkspace 1 is for personal stuff (chrome with gmail, facebook, google voice), wkspace 2 is for development (padre, chrome with development server open, IRC), wkspace 3 has a mysql console open
22:20 Getty n00b
22:20 Getty thats 4 tasks
22:20 Getty why i need workspaces
22:21 Getty or 5
22:21 Getty not much for a taskbar
22:21 Getty dont try to get "unreal"
22:21 Getty you must see that its acceptable to have 5 tasks
22:21 Getty without workspaces
22:21 dkulchenko that's too cluttered and inconvienent
22:21 Getty nah
22:21 Getty right now
22:22 Getty i got...
22:22 Getty 11 tasks
22:22 Getty 4 instnat messenger talks
22:22 Getty one browser
22:22 Getty one jdownloader
22:22 Getty one putty
22:22 Getty one explorer
22:22 Getty one notepad++ and one vmware and one mIRC
22:22 Getty btw mIRC owns
22:22 dkulchenko no, xchat ftw
22:22 Getty i got 46 channels
22:23 dkulchenko sooo much easier to use
22:23 Getty i need 2 screens on xchat for the tabs
22:23 Getty on mIRC i need one
22:23 dkulchenko huh? tabs?
22:23 dkulchenko oh you're talking about inferior python xchat
22:23 dkulchenko i use GTK xchat
22:23 Getty yeah
22:23 Getty GTK dodesnt give you that small tabs
22:23 Getty try to make a tab 12 pixel height
22:24 dkulchenko wait what? i don't have tabs in gtk xchat...
22:24 Getty i got 46 channels
22:24 Getty i wanna see them by name
22:24 dkulchenko on the left side of the screen, i have a list of channels i'm connected to, i can click on any of them
22:24 Getty yeah
22:24 Getty and i got 46 of them
22:24 Getty that doesnt fit on one screen on xchat
22:25 Getty you cant configure it that they are smaller then 20 or 22 pixel
22:27 dkulchenko_ joined #padre
22:27 dkulchenko_ back, sorry
22:28 dkulchenko_ that's one thing about linux on this netbook that i hate. it randomly restarts
22:28 Getty LOL
22:28 Getty no comment
22:28 dkulchenko_ yeah, that just helped your point there
22:28 Getty i win
22:28 Getty sorry
22:29 Getty i would love that you win
22:29 dkulchenko this is a single special case!!
22:29 Getty its a case
22:29 dkulchenko not usual behavior
22:29 dkulchenko of linux
22:29 dkulchenko in general
22:29 Getty yeah but its a case
22:29 Getty yeah
22:29 Getty try to excuse it
22:29 Getty IRC is my life
22:29 Getty its the most important app on my PC
22:29 Getty and mIRC just fits better
22:29 Getty i would use Quassel now but it crashs for me
22:29 dkulchenko fine.
22:30 dkulchenko personally, out of anything else, i prefer colloquy on mac.
22:30 dkulchenko not that i have a mac. i'd love one though
22:30 Getty BAHE!
22:30 Getty you know that apple is our arch enemy?
22:31 dkulchenko better than microsoft
22:31 Getty since apple put on so much, windows and linux people are much more cooperative against apple
22:31 Getty no!!!
22:31 Getty microsoft never excluded third parties as much as apple do
22:31 Getty i just say istore
22:31 dkulchenko yeah. i hate apple's business practices, but i like them better than microsoft
22:31 dkulchenko i just say justice department
22:31 Getty windows ce will NEVER EVER work on a concept like istore
22:31 Getty cause its against microsoft policty
22:32 Getty they always loved 3rd parties that valued up their products
22:32 Getty apple doesnt, they exclude developers
22:32 dkulchenko do not!
22:32 dkulchenko the iphone would be *nothing* without third party developers
22:32 Getty http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/iphon​e-developer-program-license-agreement-all
22:32 dkulchenko the whole apple ecosystem would be nothing without developers!
22:32 Getty http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/iphon​e-developer-program-license-agreement-all
22:32 Getty i dont say more
22:32 Getty read that
22:32 dkulchenko fine i'll read that
22:33 Getty and then tell me that microsoft is more worst than apple
22:33 dkulchenko hahahahahaha
22:33 dkulchenko "Section 10.4 prohibits developers, from making any "public statements" about the terms of the Agreement. "
22:33 dkulchenko i love that
22:33 dkulchenko wow
22:33 Getty so?
22:34 Getty who is the devil?
22:34 dkulchenko fine.
22:34 dkulchenko you win again
22:34 Getty sorry ;)
22:34 dkulchenko i'd still like to see microsoft fix itself.
22:35 Getty yeah but apple is a much higher danger
22:35 Getty dont care about microsoft for now
22:35 dkulchenko how is apple a danger? all they have is like...
22:35 Getty see the development of apple.. ipad... a big ipod, not a small ibook
22:35 dkulchenko what?
22:35 dkulchenko 9% market share?
22:35 Getty see ipad
22:35 Getty it forces you to buy apps on istore
22:35 dkulchenko the ipad is ridiculous
22:35 Getty cause its an iphone
22:35 Getty the community suggested a small ibook
22:36 Getty a normal macosx
22:36 dkulchenko the ipad is a blown up ipod touch lacking the most basic features requested by consumers. it is a fail.
22:36 dkulchenko so i agree on that
22:37 dkulchenko "For example, this could mean that iPhone app developers are forbidden from making iPods interoperate with open source software. "
22:37 dkulchenko ouch.
22:38 dkulchenko ahhhhh apple can remotely disable apps?!?!?! wtf?!
22:38 dkulchenko e. v. i. l.
22:38 Getty so?
22:38 Getty who is the devil here?
22:38 Getty WHO???
22:38 Getty if apple gets more market share
22:38 Getty open source will be dead
22:38 Getty it is much more danger to opensource then microsoft ever was
22:38 dkulchenko i disagree. on the 'open source will be dead' statement
22:39 Getty really?
22:39 Getty see it
22:39 Getty you are responsible
22:39 Getty which open source project wants to take responsiblity on the development result?
22:39 Getty that is against the thought of it
22:39 Getty there are no companies or money involved
22:40 dkulchenko i'll have you know open source android is chewing away at apple's market share faster than apple is gaining it.
22:40 Getty i hope!
22:40 Getty i hope much for it
22:40 Getty i agree on that
22:40 szbalint Apple vs. Microsoft reminds me of:
22:40 szbalint "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong
22:40 szbalint lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
22:41 Getty microsoft hired lots of dudes from the opensource community
22:41 Getty they sponsor opensource even
22:41 Getty they are going (slowly) on the right path (somehow)
22:41 dkulchenko haha, lemme give you a quote from steve ballmer, one sec
22:41 Getty yeah :)
22:42 dkulchenko "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches. "
22:42 dkulchenko they embrace open source, yes?
22:42 Getty hehehehe
22:42 Getty yes they do
22:42 Getty ballmer is just one voice
22:42 Getty for example, IE
22:42 szbalint too many apologists :)
22:43 Getty IE hired an opensource guru for trying to make it more standard compliant
22:43 Getty Apple faked Webkit to stand the ACID test
22:43 Getty i dont need to say anything on that
22:43 dkulchenko wait what?
22:43 dkulchenko Webkit is 100/100
22:43 Getty you dont know?
22:43 Getty in ACID3 or ACID2 webkit was faked by apple to stand the test, or by a developer that is near apple
22:44 Getty trust me
22:44 Getty they are the devil
22:45 dkulchenko yeah, i think i've heard something like that
22:45 Getty microsoft is just a "bad company"
22:45 dkulchenko and hold on
22:45 Getty apple is the devil
22:45 dkulchenko webkit is open source!
22:45 Getty yeah
22:45 Getty so an apple developer can take care of it
22:45 dkulchenko and everyone would notice...
22:45 Getty everyone notice
22:45 Getty after the press release
22:46 Getty sothere wasnt a second press release
22:46 Getty of course
22:46 Getty like always
22:46 Getty <sing>Money makes the world go around, the world go around, the world go around....</sing>
22:47 Getty btw i could tell you how apple handles "partners".......... out of first hand
22:47 dkulchenko yeah?
22:48 Getty apple requested a deal with my old company i worked at
22:48 Getty other department but same company
22:48 Getty they made the meeting for 13 or 14 oclock
22:48 Getty the boss was perfect on time
22:48 Getty they had to wait 3 hours till the talk was going on
22:49 Getty and then apple just said: you do anything and we pay nothing, and you can be happy to work with apple
22:49 Getty my old boss rejected any deal
22:49 dkulchenko wow
22:50 Getty apple is really 100% arrogant, they also rejected any cooperation with opensource projects, they never gave something back
22:50 Getty even microsoft offered source codes for putting standards official
22:50 Getty apple just dont care about the rest of the world
22:50 Getty sorry, apple is the enemy, microsoft was just a first "bad guy" not the real evil
22:50 dkulchenko microsoft made their own "open xml format" which got officially rejected
22:50 dkulchenko because it's actually not open
22:51 dkulchenko instead of using the already-standardized opendocument format
22:51 Getty yeah, there are details
22:51 Getty single departments of microsoft who tries to "fight" independent
22:51 Getty that is not real mainstream politics of them
22:52 dkulchenko i have a book it's called "Breaking Windows" by David Bank. the guy spent months inside the company. and he talks about their mainstream politics.
22:52 Getty they changed
22:53 dkulchenko and how do you know that?
22:53 Getty re
22:53 Getty again disconnect
22:54 dkulchenko and how do you know that?
22:54 dkulchenko how do you know that they've changed?
22:54 Getty i see it
22:54 Getty microsoft laid to themself very often
22:54 Getty today that way, tomorrow that way
22:54 Getty they changed
22:54 Getty trust me
22:55 Getty i used windows when you was taking to world
22:55 Getty apple was always the same
22:55 dkulchenko apple's gotten worse recently
22:55 Getty yeah somehow
22:55 Getty they just got the power to make it ugly
22:55 dkulchenko yeah
22:55 Getty trust me
22:56 Getty microsoft is a little enemy
22:56 dkulchenko they have, what? 40% of US smartphone marketshare
22:56 Getty against apple
22:56 dkulchenko not true.
22:56 Getty trust me
22:56 Getty really
22:56 Getty you dont know how it was 10 years ago
22:56 dkulchenko apple has 10% global smartphone market share, 9% OS market share, 70% mp3 player marketshare. they don't have anywhere *near* as much power as microsoft
22:56 Getty trust me
22:56 Getty they are making more than you see
22:57 dkulchenko for example...
23:01 Getty ...
23:01 Getty ;)
23:03 dkulchenko are you a conspiracy theorist? ;)
23:03 Getty no
23:03 Getty i was born on 24.1.
23:03 Getty so i control the 23
23:03 Getty cause i'm the 24th
23:03 Getty there is no conspiracy
23:03 Getty just money
23:04 Getty you know why WTC 9/11 was so cool for arabia?
23:04 dkulchenko no
23:04 Getty arabia made millions of transfers seconds before the 9/11 crashs
23:04 Getty money transfers
23:04 Getty over visa
23:05 Getty visa had "main control" and "backup control" in the 2 towers
23:05 dkulchenko oh damn
23:05 Getty so billions of transfers are half documented
23:05 Getty and they are statements of visa that there was an unusual high of transfers from arabia seconds before the failure
23:05 Getty "its all about money"
23:06 dkulchenko wow
23:06 dkulchenko that's scary
23:06 Getty sorry ;)
23:06 Getty its all about money
23:06 Getty always
23:06 Getty or changing money value
23:06 Getty 9/11 was horrible for the dollar value
23:06 Getty (so good for all other values)
23:06 dkulchenko yeah
23:06 Getty think about the oil price
23:07 Getty if you just see the dollar of it, its already horrible
23:07 Getty but if you take in charge the VALUE of the dollar
23:07 Getty then its even more horrible
23:07 dkulchenko yeah
23:08 Getty sorry again
23:08 dkulchenko haha sorry about what? ;)
23:08 Getty being right again ;)
23:09 Getty i can even make it more worst
23:09 Getty USA knows about that all
23:09 Getty i mean they know about the dollar value
23:09 Getty thats why the pentagon was "attacked"
23:09 Getty cause it wasnt really
23:09 Getty that rescued much value of the dollar
23:10 dkulchenko yeah, i guess it did
23:10 Getty i dont know who knew about the 9/11 attack on WTC
23:10 Getty that is a mystery till now i would say
23:10 Getty but its 100% clean that there was no attack on the pentagon
23:11 dkulchenko right, that was because of a passenger overtake on the plane
23:11 Getty no
23:11 Getty pentagon was never attacked by a plane
23:11 Getty dude....
23:12 Getty see the size of a boeing, see the size of pentagon and then see how much damage you got on pentagon
23:12 Getty there was no plane driving into the pentagon
23:12 Getty it was a missile
23:12 Getty local area
23:12 dkulchenko no, i know. that's what i said
23:12 Getty it was fired after it was clear that "9/11 WTF" happened
23:12 Getty ok :)
23:12 dkulchenko the plane never reached the pentagon because the passengers went crazy and tried to regain control
23:12 Getty its actually a funny theme
23:12 Getty cause even german news report otherwise
23:12 Getty that scared me
23:13 Getty cause german news are incapable of holding secrets
23:14 dkulchenko yeah
23:16 Getty so, who is your enemy?
23:17 Getty oh
23:17 Getty did i told you
23:17 Getty that steve jobs hold the patent for having advertisment in operation system before activating features?
23:17 Haarg joined #padre
23:17 Getty yeah hate me
23:18 dkulchenko wow.
23:18 Getty i changed your thoughts about apple i hope
23:18 dkulchenko yeah
23:18 dkulchenko they're suing HTC over multitouch
23:18 Getty i must say, in the past, i took apple as "friend"
23:18 Getty i thought they was a friend against microsoft
23:18 dkulchenko i hope Google stands behind HTC and tells apple to go f**k itself
23:19 Getty i thought that even more with their MacOSX movement
23:19 Getty but in final... they are worst
23:19 Getty i dont care who makes apple fail i just want they fail
23:19 Getty right now i hope on adobe
23:19 Getty adobe got a big problem about apple
23:19 dkulchenko ha. yeah right
23:19 Getty if adobe let apple fail, then apple would fail complete
23:19 Getty it would be the backbone crush
23:20 dkulchenko adobe has no power to make apple fail
23:20 Getty sadly
23:20 Getty but also sadly
23:20 Getty they are the dude mostly making it happen
23:20 Getty without adobe making apple fail, then apple will never fail
23:20 Getty even if iPhone/iPad/iStore fails
23:21 Getty with adobe they still win
23:21 dkulchenko how can adobe make apple fail?
23:21 dkulchenko all they have is flash
23:21 Getty adobe is the backbone of apple
23:21 dkulchenko and that's inferior by now
23:21 dkulchenko oh how so?
23:21 Getty no
23:21 Getty also apple is more print orientated then windows
23:22 Getty apple screen colors are more "like print" then windows colors
23:22 Getty its hilarious funy
23:22 Getty but it is that way
23:22 Getty graphicans want apple
23:22 Getty so adobe wants apple
23:22 Getty if adobe says they dont want apple
23:22 Getty then apple would fail for the backbone
23:22 Getty if the backbone breaks back
23:22 dkulchenko adobe wouldn't do that. that would be a very stupid move on their part. i'm sure more than half of their customers are Mac users
23:23 Getty damn it again disconnect
23:23 Getty you heard about the apple critics on adobe?
23:24 dkulchenko yeah, i have
23:24 Getty and you heard about adobe reply?
23:24 dkulchenko hmm nope
23:24 dkulchenko what was it?
23:24 Getty mh, funny, or?
23:25 Getty adobe said: apple doesnt give us a chance for a cooperation, they never gave any information to use before everyone else to have it
23:25 Getty s/use/us/
23:25 dkulchenko ah. wow
23:25 Getty funny that you didnt know, or?
23:25 Getty why you didnt know?
23:25 Getty cause apple makes more money to press releases than adobe
23:25 dkulchenko i only heard about apple->adobe, didn't notice their reply
23:25 Getty you pay 5-10$ per ipad just for press
23:26 Getty aehm iphone/ipod
23:26 Getty yeah
23:26 Getty see what i mean?
23:26 Getty money makes the world......
23:26 Getty you know what i mean
23:26 dkulchenko yeah
23:26 Getty apple blindfolded you
23:26 Getty successful
23:27 dkulchenko yep
23:28 dkulchenko guess they did
23:28 dkulchenko but apple didn't want jobs's words to get out
23:28 dkulchenko they said bad stuff about google
23:28 dkulchenko as a result, people hate apple more now
23:28 Getty probably again blindfooling?
23:28 Getty probably you just thinkpeople hate it?
23:28 Getty google doesnt have much fans
23:28 Getty cause google made much mistakes on the privacy sector
23:29 Getty which wasnt actually reall taken serious by then
23:29 Getty but taken serious by the publicity
23:29 Getty apple never did this............................. they did other stuff the people dont notice
23:29 dkulchenko whoa whoa
23:29 dkulchenko google doesn't have much fans?
23:29 dkulchenko huh?
23:29 Getty you remember the first chrome release terms of condition problem?
23:29 dkulchenko the secret encrypted key that no one knew what it contained?
23:30 Getty no
23:30 Getty the word, that google is allowed to parse the data you see in chrome
23:30 Getty which means if you check a private site, or a cooperation site
23:30 Getty google still is allowed to use the data for themself
23:30 Getty it was a mistake, google never wanted to interpret it that way
23:30 dkulchenko ah
23:30 Getty but it was interpretable that way by law
23:31 dkulchenko well, i know this for a fact. google. is. not. evil.
23:31 Getty that made it very hard for google mobile stuff to come on
23:31 dkulchenko they are a very decent company with good intentions
23:31 Getty yeah i know
23:31 Getty i'm a google fan
23:31 dkulchenko yes, they have a lot of power
23:31 Getty but i'm alone...........
23:31 dkulchenko but it's in good hands
23:31 Getty totally
23:31 Getty more apple fans around me then google fans
23:31 dkulchenko i'm a very strong google supporter
23:31 Getty me too
23:31 Getty i had no problem giving google a login for managing my mobile phone
23:31 dkulchenko they do good things. they support open source with a burning passion
23:31 dkulchenko yeah
23:31 Getty other people do have the problem..........................
23:32 Getty cause they dont know how much google does for open source
23:32 Getty and open services
23:32 Getty but we only know
23:32 Getty not the masses
23:32 Getty WE ARE ALONE, that is a fact
23:32 dkulchenko sigh... 'tis a shame
23:33 dkulchenko did you hear that the government wants to assume control of google?
23:33 dkulchenko yikes
23:33 Getty yeah
23:33 Getty its a shame
23:33 Getty i'm with yeah
23:33 Getty but i dont try to avoid reality facts
23:33 Getty its hard to "disable your brain"
23:33 Getty and try to think like the masses
23:33 Getty its a learning curve
23:33 Getty the biggest mission of IT dudes like us
23:33 Getty if you use MVC or not is even just 5% of that dimension
23:34 Getty like....
23:34 Getty "Twitter is the sh*t!"
23:34 Getty thats true
23:34 Getty you cant believe it
23:34 Getty you can never understand it
23:34 Getty but it is
23:34 Getty just take it
23:34 Getty accept it, try to understand why
23:34 Getty but you cant value it with your personal "values"
23:34 dkulchenko yeah
23:34 dkulchenko i don't understand twitter, personally
23:34 dkulchenko i just don't get it
23:34 Getty trust me
23:35 Getty its the value
23:35 Getty i also dont get it
23:35 Getty but
23:35 Getty its the value
23:35 Getty i dont get it, too
23:35 Getty wait
23:35 Getty let me give you something
23:35 Getty http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/dice-2010​-design-outside-the-box-presentation/
23:35 Getty you will LOVE it#
23:35 Getty watch it now
23:35 Getty i wait
23:36 Getty i get a massage right now, i can wait for you, lol
23:36 Getty its btw my only bookmark
23:36 Getty lol
23:36 Getty dont know why
23:36 Getty but it is
23:37 kaare left #padre
23:38 dkulchenko i'll watch it in 30 mins, can't do it right now. linux and its sound issues...
23:38 Getty LOL
23:38 Getty (i win!)
23:39 Getty yeah you can hate me
23:39 Getty i dont have a problem with that
23:39 dkulchenko haha
23:39 Getty its good that you hate me, cause then you can try to improve it, or proof me wrong
23:39 dkulchenko haha i don't hate you
23:40 Getty hey what?
23:40 Getty ;) most people do
23:40 Getty ol
23:40 Getty l
23:40 dkulchenko i'm arrogant as hell, but being proven wrong is good sometimes
23:41 Getty yeah true
23:41 Getty i'm arrogant like hell too
23:41 Getty but i got 15 years more of experience being arrogant ;) and i know how you think very good
23:42 dkulchenko haha okay :)
23:42 Getty being arrogant is good
23:42 Getty i think its just bringing the next steps
23:42 Getty if you say you are doing it most cool
23:42 Getty you change something
23:42 Getty (if you are right lol)
23:43 dkulchenko yeah
23:43 Getty example: Template::Toolkit dudes
23:44 Getty i cant say it different than again.. Template::Toolkit isnt the end of the string
23:44 Getty Template::Toolkit isnt a good template engine
23:44 Getty its based on a very good structure but its still not a good template engine
23:44 dkulchenko yeah
23:44 Getty but tell that a Template::Toolkit user
23:44 Getty they kill you in the air
23:46 Getty i was very longtime php dude
23:46 dkulchenko aaaah php... scary
23:46 dkulchenko i tried that once
23:46 Getty and i accept every problem with php that is real
23:46 Getty yeah it is really bad
23:46 Getty in many many ways
23:46 Getty dont i made me comfortable with it
23:46 Getty and i still says:
23:46 Getty smarty is the best template engine ever
23:47 Getty Dwoo is even better
23:47 Getty but they both are based on bad concepts/structures
23:47 Getty and based on a bad language
23:47 Getty but they are perfect
23:51 dkulchenko yeah that's truer
23:51 dkulchenko *true
23:51 Getty you know Dwoo?
23:51 dkulchenko no, but i know smarty
23:51 Getty if not, check it out, the most cool features of it was my idea ;)
23:51 dkulchenko i'll be back in 15 minutes
23:51 dkulchenko okay :)
23:51 Getty hehe
23:59 dkulchenko i'm back

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