Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-04-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:53 Hyppolit svn: r11327 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11327
01:53 Hyppolit Adding test script for the new slave master class, which passes them (as long as it is just a simple start/stop and doesn't involve actual work)
01:53 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
02:07 Hyppolit svn: r11328 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11328
02:07 Hyppolit Adding some more convenience methods to the slave master
02:07 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
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02:40 mib_oq3was Hi, Padre.dmg 0.58 for Mac crashes on startup on Mac OS X 10.5.8
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05:28 Sno|Laptop moin
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05:33 Sewi hi
05:38 Sno| moin Sewi
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05:51 azawawi good morning
05:51 Sewi Hi azawawi
05:52 azawawi hey
05:52 azawawi :)
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06:27 Hyppolit svn: r11329 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11329
06:27 Hyppolit Abstract the core functionality of a thread-manager object into a standalone class, so I can have the worker class inherit from it as well.
06:27 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/
06:29 Sno|Laptop Alias: do you plan to separate a cpan module for the thread/task manager?
06:30 Sno|Laptop if so, please let's exchange some ideas before ... because I need something like that for my background command execution, too
06:30 Sno|Laptop and before we both do the same thing twice ...
06:33 Hyppolit svn: r11330 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11330
06:33 Hyppolit Clean out the old duplicated worker code, so it's just a thin wrapper over the common base Padre::Task2Thread class
06:33 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/
06:36 Alias Sno|Laptop: No plans at the moment...
06:37 Alias There's two entirely different mechanisms for talking down to the thread, and the thread responding back to the parent
06:37 Alias And the thread -> parent channel relies on Wx
06:37 Alias About the best you could achieve with this new abstraction at the moment is firing off background tasks that don't respond to the parent and end after a reasonably short time
06:38 Alias It's a bit weird to have this half-and-half setup, but it means communication in both directions is fast, efficient, and each individual implementation is quite simple
06:38 Alias I'll might refactor some of it out later, once it's stable and I'm sure it's useful in other contexts
06:39 Alias But not for the moment
06:39 Alias Premature CPAN'ification can cripple APIs
06:39 Alias Lets review again once it lands on trunk
06:41 Steffen Alias: Some day, you need to explain the new setup to me.
06:41 Steffen But not now, I'm about to head out.
06:42 Alias I'll write a blog post once I'm sure it actually works
06:42 Alias So far it's only been whiteboard sanity-checked by submersible
06:43 Steffen That's why I was asking you to explain it to me.
06:44 Alias ah :)
06:45 Alias I'm about two thirds of the way through the core communications and structural code
06:45 Alias (Without anything to actually RUN any tasks)
06:45 Alias I'll stop at the end of the core work and get you to check it
06:45 Steffen Cool.
06:46 Steffen The whole thing became a *real* mess with the early thread spawning / slavedriver experimentation.
06:46 Alias I noticed
06:46 Alias I read almost the entire body of existing work
06:46 Alias Then decided to throw it all away and start again :)
06:46 Steffen The fate of first-gen code!
06:46 Alias And suffer the pain of having to modify N different task classes for everyone
06:47 Steffen Oh, you don't manage to keep the user-facing API the same?
06:47 Steffen Big changes?
06:47 Alias Medium
06:47 Steffen I guess the code survived longer than I expected given that I didn't even have a good idea where I was going when I wrote it.
06:47 Alias Conceptually the same Process.pm idea, completely different details
06:48 Steffen How do you pass information between threads?
06:48 Steffen Still Storable?
06:48 Steffen That's a bit I'd love to get rid of but had no idea how.
06:48 Alias Still storable
06:48 Alias But again, totally different details
06:49 Alias Two entirely different mechanisms for upwards and downwards
06:49 Alias And a Handle object wrapped over each Task
06:49 Steffen Yeah, two way comms sucked a lot.
06:49 Alias The new design is dramatically better, once you get past the fast it's two utterly different code
06:50 Steffen At least the "out-of-band" type that did go MainThread -> start of Task -> churn -> end of task -> MainThread
06:50 Alias Downwards uses native threads and queues
06:50 Steffen *didn't
06:50 Alias Upwards uses Wx, but marshalled through one and only one event type and handler
06:51 Alias I added the additional limitation that people writing Tasks must be able to do so without understanding anything whatsoever about either threads or Wx
06:51 Steffen Nice!
06:51 Alias That seems to be the truly high level problem
06:51 Alias Tons of code in Padre sucks because it's too hard to learn to write proper task replacements
06:52 Alias If task writing were easier, jobs like making the directory tree search run in the background would be almost trivial
06:52 Steffen It wasn't HARD.
06:52 Steffen Though I don't know how Wx handles multiple events posted through the same type from different threads while they're being processed by Wx.pm.
06:52 Alias It requires experience
06:52 Alias If you are smart and keen, but naive, it's hard
06:53 Steffen Well, a bit. Considering the wide range of experience among the developers.
06:53 Alias Anyways, we'll see how it goes
06:53 Alias I've stratified it into 4 levels
06:53 Alias Task -> Process -> Agent -> Service
06:57 Steffen Okay, I'm off now. Originally, I just logged on to thank Jesse for releasign 5.12. So should everybody else, by the way.
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08:14 waxhead evening
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09:48 Hyppolit svn: r11331 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11331
09:48 Hyppolit Added file type filter "script file" (which includes Unix shell scripts  and Windows .bat files) to the Open dialog
09:48 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
10:18 Hyppolit #925: (wishlist) offer Regex Editor in context menu when cursor is on a regular expression (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/925#comment:1 ]
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13:28 kthakore Alias__: around?
13:55 Alias__ Intermittantly
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14:18 kthakore Alias__: so frozenbubble is released on CPAN
14:18 daxim link?
14:19 kthakore daxim: search for games::frozenbubble
14:19 daxim http://search.cpan.org/dist/Games-FrozenBubble
14:20 kthakore daxim: yeah that is it
14:20 kthakore :)
14:20 kthakore daxim: read the pod let me know if you want MOAR credit
14:23 daxim I want to do some different things
14:23 daxim * eliminate extraneous man6 target by podiying the files, then let pod2man take care of it
14:23 daxim * podify documents in root
14:23 daxim * podify comment blocks which are clearly documentation
14:24 kthakore daxim: sure go ahead
14:24 kthakore daxim: it is on  the redesign branch
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19:01 dp using padre 0.42 (Ubuntu Lucid), copying text via Ctrl+C, then highlight and Ctrl+V, I get "nothing".  is this a bug in 0.42, or is it a problem with something else?
19:02 garu why are you still using 0.42
19:03 dp because that's the latest in Lucid, and I don't know if padre has a PPA
19:03 garu hmmm
19:03 dp does padre have a PPA?
19:04 garu I think I was the release manager for the Answer version, and I remember it having some problems with find, but not with copy-paste
19:04 garu what's a ppa?
19:04 dp Ubuntu Package Archive
19:04 garu hmm
19:04 dp though, that's not the literal translation
19:05 Sewi dp: You should be able to upgrade via CPAN
19:05 Sewi There was some mixture of auto-copy-on-mouse-select in earlier versions,but we're at 0.59 now.
19:05 Sewi Or try the standalone
19:05 Sewi standalone?
19:05 Sewi download?
19:05 Hyppolit download is http://padre.perlide.org/download.html
19:06 garu dp: Sewi is right. you can install 0.42 via apt-get then try upgrading it directly via cpan
19:06 dp garu: just perl -MCPAN -e 'install Padre' ?
19:07 dp installing
19:07 Sewi dp: sudo cpan Padre
19:07 Sewi it's the same :)
19:07 dp bothers me that the Ubuntu release is so far behind though
19:08 garu dp: it's not really - we're the ones who release all the time
19:08 garu padre grows faster than we can package it
19:08 garu it's a good thing in the end ;)
19:09 garu dp but if you can help us maintain the deb package updated, it would be great
19:09 Sewi garu: But 0.42 is very old
19:09 garu Sewi: not even a year old, is it?
19:10 garu it's old in a sense that we are 10+ releases ahead
19:10 garu but, like I said, padre developers work fast :)
19:11 dp unfortunately, I don't have enough time to package Padre
19:11 garu dp ... and now you know why the ubuntu release is so far behind :/
19:11 dp heh
19:13 dp hopefully, upgrading will fix the copy/paste bug I have
19:15 garu dp: please let us know
19:16 dp it does! yay!
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20:00 szabgab garu, Sewi I think it would be bettet to suggest using local::lib
20:00 szabgab and then upgrade via cpan
20:01 szabgab so when Ununtu itself upgrades this private directory can be wiped out
20:01 szabgab and started again, if necessary
20:02 garu right
20:02 dam online
20:03 dam er
20:03 dam garu: the debian package is at 0.59. should be installable on Ubuntu, but may require ugrading a bunch of other packages
20:05 garu dam: really? that's odd - I clearly remember someone here mentioning ubuntu just mirrored the debian repo for padre (and other stuff)
20:05 szabgab they do
20:05 szabgab at a certain point in time
20:05 garu hmm
20:05 szabgab and that went in the prev Ubuntu release
20:06 garu so ubuntu laggin version is their fault, not ours?
20:06 szabgab the new Ubuntu will - I guess - have a newer version of Padre
20:06 szabgab I would not call fault
20:06 dam it is how releases work
20:06 szabgab but yes
20:08 dam ubuntu releases twice a year lagging is inevitable
20:09 dam (ftr, debian releases roughly every other year)
20:12 dam and by "debian has 0.59" I mean the unstable, development branch of debian. the current stable release has no padre (was released in Feb 2009)
20:13 szabgab yeah the current stable version of Debian does not have padre which is not surprising as it was release before we started to work on Padre
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20:34 garu ubuntu users can add the debian repo to their sources.list, no?
20:41 dam in theory, but blindly upgrading the whole system from Debian may have interesting effects (like, you are no longer running Ubuntu)
20:45 Sewi I'd expect many downgrades :-(
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21:14 dam Sewi: not if 'unstable' is used (which indeed contains the latest padre)
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