Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-04-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:57 Sewi gm
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04:29 Hyppolit svn: r11356 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11356
04:29 Hyppolit No more need for a dedicated master thread class, all threads are inherently able to spawn children, and there's no more need to have the master track the children as the top level manager always has first class access to them
04:29 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
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05:58 Hyppolit svn: r11357 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11357
05:58 Hyppolit Re-implemented master support as a singleton in the main thread method, a ->master method to get it, and a :master flag at import time to trigger an immediate launch of the master.
05:58 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
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06:38 Hyppolit svn: r11358 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11358
06:38 Hyppolit Spawn in ->master rather than the import
06:38 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/
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07:47 waxhead I see adam has been busy with the threading code
08:00 Hyppolit svn: r11359 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11359
08:00 Hyppolit Adding first trivial test for the task manager
08:00 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
08:00 Alias I wouldn't say busy
08:00 Alias But I'm slowly incrementing my way towards something useful
08:00 Alias If I'm going to break everything, I want to make sure it's worth it
08:01 Alias I've changed the design 2 or 3 times so far, possibly more to come
08:01 Steffen (gnarly problems)++
08:02 Alias Steffen: Speaking of which, I'm done with the threading model now
08:02 Alias Whenever you want to review it
08:03 Steffen Would you like to give me a little intro?
08:03 Alias It's pretty simple, based on Erlang
08:03 Alias Each thread has a manager object
08:04 Alias That manager object has a unique id, allocated in advance before the thread itself is started, and an inbound queue
08:04 Alias The queue itself is :shared, but the worker isn't
08:04 Alias ->spawn triggers the creation of the thread itself
08:05 Alias And the thread id is stored in a global shared hash against the object id
08:05 Alias Once the thread starts, it goes into an immediate loop waiting on the queue
08:06 Alias Each entry in the queue must be an array reference, in the following form  [ $method, @params ]
08:06 Alias When something arrives on the queue, the corrosponding method is called in the manager object
08:06 Alias If that method returns false, the thread exits the loop
08:07 Alias Which is mostly just there so you can terminate a thread with ->send('stop')
08:07 Alias To achieve slave mastering, you make the first thread early
08:07 Alias And then you send it a method call to fork a child
08:08 Alias s/fork/spawn/
08:08 Alias This doesn't actually make a new worker
08:08 Alias The parameter to the spawn call is a new unspawned thread manager object
08:08 Alias So you pass the handle down into the first thread, which will run a method to execute the spawning of the second one
08:08 Steffen ... which the thread associates with itself in spawn()?
08:08 Steffen Err, yes, that's what I meant.
08:09 Alias Meanwhile, you still have the object in the main process
08:09 Alias So all you need to do is write a message to that object, and it works in the newly spawned child
08:10 Alias Even better, because you can send that second-level thread a stop command directly, the slave master no longer needs to know anything about the existance of them
08:10 Steffen Hmm. Nice.
08:10 Alias And, if you wanted, you could sub-split a second level thread too
08:10 Alias If it happened to have a convenient set of modules/tasks already loaded
08:11 Alias (But you woulnd't)
08:11 Alias So now there is no need to a master class at all
08:11 Alias There's a a base thread class, and a worker sub-class
08:11 Alias The first does the threading model
08:11 Alias The second implements the actual marshalling and execution of tasks
08:12 Alias And now the slave master is just a variable held in the base class, with a ->master method to get to it
08:12 Steffen Yes, that makes sense.
08:12 Alias And which could, if we wanted, just be hidden even more invisibly
08:12 Steffen The master implementation of my first-gen model was the worst bit.
08:12 Alias So $worker->spawn automatically spawned itself out the master
08:12 Steffen Really no more than a hack.
08:12 Alias And the task manager never needs to know about the existance of the master
08:13 * waxhead 's head spins...
08:13 Steffen The TaskManager class still looks like what I wrote. Do you plan to replace it?
08:14 Alias Task2Manager
08:14 Steffen Ah!
08:14 Alias I'm just starting on it now
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08:14 Alias I wanted to keep all the code parallel
08:14 waxhead right.. I'm going to get dinner... back later if I'm able to stay awake.
08:14 Alias To avoid breaking things till the last moment
08:14 waxhead how soon are you thinking of breaking things?
08:14 Alias Look in t/threads/ for the tests that demonstrate what works today
08:14 Alias waxhead: Not soon
08:14 Alias A months time maybe
08:15 Alias At the earliest
08:15 waxhead ok.. plent of time to do a release or three...
08:15 Alias Sure
08:15 waxhead which, given the weekend is all but over, I'll announce the release for some time this week...
08:15 Alias I want it to be in place and stable for Padre's birthday, so all the excitement around the anniversay can be harnessed for upgrades of various things to use threads
08:15 waxhead spent yesterday in the roof cabling and all day today putting a bed together...
08:16 waxhead sheesh... nothing's done in a hurry...
08:16 waxhead ok food time..
08:16 Steffen Alias: You lack some docs :)
08:19 Steffen Alias: The whole design is sufficiencly decoupled from Padre that you could release it as a separate module to CPAN.
08:19 Steffen That would be useful.
08:19 Steffen And before you do the whole Task2 => Task transition, it'll be easier than after you start integrating it more.
08:37 Steffen Alias: Design looks fine to me.
08:37 Alias You know, that's what someone else said
08:37 Alias The design at the time turned out to be rubbish
08:37 Alias I think I'll wait till it's run anything, ever :)
08:38 Steffen Well. Unless you spend a lot of time on actually using it, you never KNOW it's fine.
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09:40 Xaero i already have perl installed, how can i get padre without perl bundled?
09:46 szabgab Xaero, which operating system ?
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10:29 Xaero windows
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10:34 szabgab Xaero, and which Perl have you installed?
10:34 szabgab for ActivePerl there should be ppm packages and for Strawberry you can install Padre via CPAN
10:34 szabgab but it can take you a few hours to install everything
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11:52 user_2966 Hello, a nowbie, how to supply the debugger in padre with command line arguments?
11:54 szabgab user_2966, I am not sure you can do that now
11:54 user_2966 gatcha
11:55 user_2966 can i supply it in to script in its #!/bin/perl or the debugger ignores it as it run internally with out the shell?
11:57 szabgab nope but you could do     @ARGV = ("param", "param");   in your code
11:58 user_2966 10x
12:00 user_2966 1. the padre windows is pretty small in size and i was unable to resize it (Ubuntu 9.04), am i missing something here?
12:01 szabgab the resize button ?
12:01 szabgab ;-)
12:01 szabgab I never had any problem resizing the windows so I am not sure what do you mean ?
12:02 szabgab can't you just drag the border of the window?
12:02 user_2966 nope
12:02 szabgab can you try to post a screenshot somewhere ?
12:02 szabgab oh and you could get a real nick by typing   /nick  myname
12:04 user_2966 and yes, stopido me, the resize button actully works :P, but the border arrow appears but can't drag. i even tried ALT-F8
12:05 skymo do you still need the screenshot?
12:06 Hyppolit svn: r11360 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11360
12:06 Hyppolit Start and stop for the Task Manager now works, it fills and empties the worker pool properly.
12:06 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
12:09 Hyppolit svn: r11361 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11361
12:09 Hyppolit Whitespace
12:09 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
12:11 skymo in the debugger there is a shortcut for the opertaion (step in(s), etc..)  how to use the shortcut? ps caould it be the help was writen in windows as it seems as a single one liner
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12:21 szabgab Sewi, /join #events
12:22 szabgab skymo, if you are settled with the size then no need for screenshot
12:22 szabgab what is a one liner?
12:28 dam szabgab: everything on a single line
12:29 szabgab sorry, I mean what do you see on a single line
12:29 szabgab ?
12:30 dam I don't, was trying to help :)
12:38 skymo sorry for the delay i was out of my office, i see all the NAME Padre - Perl Application Devlopment.....<till> the ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS in the end - even resize it and it still looks as ahuge block of text
12:39 szabgab where do you see that ?
12:39 skymo menu->Help->Help
12:46 szabgab skymo, and which version of Padre ?
12:46 szabgab and which Operating system?
12:49 dam heh, my padre Help->Help says "Searched for 'Padre' and failed."
12:49 dam (0.59 Debian)
12:50 szabgab :)
12:51 dam there are two warnings in the terminal
12:51 dam Use of uninitialized value $system in hash element at /usr/share/perl5/Padre/Locale.pm line 514.
12:51 dam Use of uninitialized value in string eq at /usr/share/perl5/Padre/Wx/DocBrowser.pm line 423.
12:53 dam hm, whatever I try to search for, it is not found
12:59 skymo Ubuntu 9.04 - padre 0.55
13:08 Hyppolit svn: r11362 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11362
13:08 Hyppolit Adding initial simple tests for the handle class, and a trivially simple Padre::Task2::Addition to lets you calculate 1 + 1 = 2 in a background thread :)
13:08 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/Task2/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/threads/
13:10 szabgab skymo, I guess it was not a packaged padre, right?
13:10 szabgab then maybe better upgrade first
13:10 Alias OK, I think that's about as far as I can sanely push this threading work for the moment
13:10 Alias I've got the guts of what I wanted done working
13:11 Steffen Alias++
13:11 Alias That doesn't mean it runs :)
13:11 Steffen If it's *working*...
13:11 Alias Just that I've hit a logical implementation boundary
13:11 Alias Well, it works to the extent that the tests cover
13:11 Steffen Does anyone here have any experience with migrating tickets between multiple RT instances?
13:11 Alias The task manager starts up and shuts down, and creates the basic core pool
13:11 Alias etc
13:12 Alias I just haven't pushed it far enough to give tasks to the task manager and expect them to work
13:15 Alias Anyways
13:15 Alias It can wait till I find the next timeslice
13:15 * Alias moves on
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13:21 Xaero sorry got disconnected
13:32 Xaero Module-Install-PadrePlugin and Acme-CPANAuthors-Padre are available in PPM, which one should i install to get padre?
13:35 Steffen Neither. You need a "Padre" package.
13:38 Alias We really should kill off Acme::CPANAuthors-Padre, now at least one person has been confused by it
13:39 Steffen Yes.
13:41 Xaero I was really confused coz the description said: we are the padre cpan authors :P
13:41 Xaero *wasn't
13:41 Xaero i'm just new to perl
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13:42 Xaero i don't think activestate have padre in their repository
13:42 Alias You'd want to check with jdb in #win32
13:43 Xaero nvm, imma just replace activeperl with strawberry
13:43 Alias yay :)
13:44 Alias For the moment, it's definitely the best option
13:44 Xaero i didn't know about strawberryperl for windows so I just searched for activeperl
13:44 Alias yup
13:45 Alias We only have maybe 10-20% market share
13:46 Xaero do you know about windows scripting host?
13:46 Alias Vaguely
13:50 Xaero well we can write perl scripts called "Perlscript" which is like "VBScript" or "Javascript" and access the windows scripting host feature through it, so it doesn't need additional modules etc for doing certain tasks on windows
13:51 Xaero which is not what I am after, but it does let you make gui's very simple like in VBscript
13:52 Xaero i wouldn't really want to write code that isn't portable but I find the making gui part quite hard
13:52 skymo you right - it was not packed
13:53 Xaero it wouldn't be, last thing they would want is for people to start using Padre instead of Komodo IDE
14:10 skymo i had to use the unpackged tgz as the apt-get install padre didn't worked for me - do i need an extra repo for the padre?
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16:42 szabgab ppm?
16:43 szabgab Hyppolit, ppm is http://padre.perlide.org/tr​ac/wiki/DownloadActivePerl
16:43 Hyppolit ppm was unknown
16:43 Hyppolit ppm is now http://padre.perlide.org/tr​ac/wiki/DownloadActivePerl
16:43 szabgab Xaero, follow that link
16:44 szabgab hmm actually that is not up to date I think
16:46 szabgab ok I updated it, Xaero pleas let us know if the instructions are clear and if you manage to install Padre that way
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17:30 Xaero installing just a sec
17:40 Xaero I got two copies of Alien-wxWidgets 0.51 and 0.51.2 and two copies of Wx 0.9701 and 0.9701.12 in PPM does it matter which one I install?
17:46 Xaero i gotta go bbl
18:12 Hyppolit svn: r11363 | tsee++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11363
18:12 Hyppolit Require Perl::APIReference 0.04 for perl 5.12.0 support
18:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-XS/
18:15 Hyppolit svn: r11364 | tsee++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11364
18:15 Hyppolit Bump version, update change log
18:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-XS/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-XS/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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19:49 sjn t/15-locale.t .............. 3/7 kl. 21.47 +0200: Error: Cannot set locale to 'de_DE'.
19:49 sjn (this is from make test on the current SVN HEAD)
19:50 sjn test doesn't fail though, just complains
19:57 Sewi This is know.
19:57 Sewi But I don't know if there is a ticket for it or if it's worth a ticket :-)
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