Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-04-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:17 Hyppolit svn: r11391 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11391
01:17 Hyppolit Integrated Task2 Manager into the constructor and startup/shutdown loops enough to pass tests (but for some reason dev.pl crashes)
01:17 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/Wx/ branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/t/
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02:10 Hyppolit svn: r11392 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11392
02:10 Hyppolit Padre::Util::share now supports dev.pl launch properly in cases where someone has branched only the main Padre distribution, and not the entire trunk.
02:10 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/
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06:12 Sewi gm
06:20 Sno| moin moin
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11:35 waxhead oh cool...
11:36 waxhead upgrade ubuntu to lucid and now padre is broken...
11:39 szabgab do you also have local::lib ?
11:39 waxhead don't know
11:39 waxhead I've been installing/upgrading using the cpan client
11:39 szabgab have you installed stuff with CPAN?
11:40 waxhead which is why I suspect things are now broken with the upgrade :)
11:40 szabgab and have you installed them into the directories of root or in a private directory?
11:40 waxhead it's ok.. I'll see what it takes to get things working again
11:40 waxhead installed and su
11:40 waxhead ed to to installed
11:40 szabgab yeah I don't do that
11:41 szabgab I use local::lib to install everything in a private directory
11:41 szabgab and then at the upgrade I can wipe out that directory and install anything new I need
11:41 waxhead oh..
11:41 szabgab as there might be binary compatibility issues
11:41 waxhead I guess if oyu know such trickes
11:42 waxhead yike.. I should stop typing :)
11:42 szabgab I learned them in the hard way
11:43 waxhead blog about how to use it for padre
11:43 waxhead or put it on the web site
11:44 waxhead not sure if I like the new theme... bit too dark
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11:57 kthakore hi Alias_
11:58 Alias_ \o
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12:11 zenog One question about the debugging in Padre: Why is there this "show value now" thing? Can it do anything that "display variable" doesn't do?
12:12 Alias_ Show a value, instead of just a variable?
12:12 Alias_ Where "value" is any arbitrary expression?
12:13 zenog For that there is "evaluate expression", I guess.
12:13 Alias_ Sorry, rephrase
12:13 zenog ... which seems to be broken, at least here ...
12:13 Alias_ value does whatever is highlighter
12:13 Alias_ highlighted
12:15 zenog ah okay ... a bit confusing ...
12:15 Alias_ I didn't write it :)
12:16 Alias_ Debugger is absolutely in the "first shitty implementation" state
12:16 Alias_ We like to encourage these, so then we know what the second awesome version should look like, and in the mean time we've got enough of an implementation for the people that really need it
12:16 zenog Also, refactoring recognizes when the cursor is on a variable, there is no need to select it explicitly. The debugger needs selection for "display variable" and "show variable now".
12:16 zenog okay
12:17 Alias_ Do you have commit yet? :)
12:17 Alias_ That can be arranged
12:18 szabgab zenog, I think I even added a comment in the code that the variable selection should use the one we already have
12:18 zenog I'll have a look at it.
12:18 szabgab Evaluate expression allows you type in anything
12:19 szabgab I think
12:19 szabgab Display value adds it to the right side to be always visible
12:19 szabgab Show value now show the value of the selected variable
12:20 zenog szabgab: So we could rename "display variable" to "watch variable" to express the "always visible" thing?
12:21 szabgab we could but "watch" means something else in the perl debugger
12:21 szabgab and I did not know what to do
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12:23 submersible hi padrites
12:23 zenog Hi submersible, hi Corion
12:24 Corion Hi :)
12:24 zenog szabgab: Hm, I don't have a good suggestion now ...
12:24 Corion I'm now implementing an "Explorer" like file transfer program. When it's done, the underlying functions can be used for Padre remote editing :))
12:24 submersible has anyone seen patspam recently?
12:26 zenog Corion: cool!
12:27 Corion Yeah - I hope I get it done far enough to be useful :) So far, I only do DAV, but once that's done, implementing SSH and (S)FTP should come easy.
12:28 Corion Hmm - maybe somebody here knows - what is the event to listen for when dragging from a ListCtrl? The Wx demos use EVT_LEFT_DOWN, which prevents selecting items
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12:40 waxhead yeah.. would be handy if patsam was around
12:40 waxhead I have a question about the 'bottom' thing he did...
12:40 waxhead in the mean time i'm busy upgrading all my ubuntu based systems...
12:41 waxhead the SQL thing I've been working on no longer works and I can't see why..
12:42 zenog _get_current_symbol is currently a private function (not method) in Padre::Document::Perl - is there preferred way of making it publicly accessible, or shall I just go ahead?
12:43 szabgab why do we need that publci?
12:43 zenog szabgab: Because it would be useful in the Debugger code as well.
12:44 Corion szabgab: Thanks for writing Padre - I've stolen lots of good ideas from it :)
12:44 zenog szabgab: The refactoring code does not need it, because the refactoring is implemented in Document::Perl
12:44 szabgab then you'll need to rename it to not have _ at the front - just for the convention
12:44 zenog szabgab: sure.
12:44 szabgab Corion, you are welcom, though I am sure those were not my ideas
12:47 zenog szabgab: Another thing: The debugging is stuff is also Perl-specific, so maybe it should also go into Document::Perl? Then every other document type could also support debugging ... at least theoretically, don't know which other infrastructure parts are missing.
12:47 zenog szabgab: OTOH, Document::Perl already contains _a_lot of things.
12:48 szabgab I would not move it yet
12:48 szabgab only of someone really wants to work on a debugger for some other language
12:48 szabgab maybe for XML
12:48 zenog szabgab: Okay. I feel safer doing less modifications anyway ;-)
12:49 submersible corion:  EVT_LIST_BEGIN_DRAG(id, func)   http://docs.wxwidgets.org/​stable/wx_wxlistctrl.html
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12:49 Corion submersible: Thanks! That doesn|t seem to fire for me, but I'll test again
12:50 submersible u may need to instance a _draggable_ listctrl?
12:50 Corion Ah - duh, that might be it :)
12:51 submersible but i see nothing in the style flags about that
12:51 Corion Me neither
12:52 submersible try wxLC_REPORT vs wxLC_LIST
12:52 Corion I'm already using wxLC_REPORT , as I'm building something like the Windows Explorer
12:53 Corion But I might need to try wxLC_LIST ...
12:53 Corion Ah - no, I'm using nothing ( == wxLC_LIST ) , I'll try with wxLC_REPORT (but I don't want LC_REPORT :) )
12:55 submersible it is possible that if you ->Skip the event then wx will not select/hilight the row
12:56 Corion Duh - no, it was trivial - EVT_LIST_BEGIN_DRAG needs ($self, $self, $callback) , not ($self, $callback) :-}
12:56 Corion Thanks and sorry :)
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13:23 zenog hi again
13:26 waxhead howdy
13:43 zenog szabgab: Is it okay if I add some additional behavior to get_value in Debug::Client?
13:43 szabgab zenog, enjoy
13:44 zenog szabgab: Like, if the variable is an array, return a string containing the length and the first three elements ...
13:44 zenog szabgab: Nothing definitive, of course ;-)
13:45 szabgab I thought I'd rather keep the Debug::Client simple interface to the built in debugger
13:46 szabgab and move the cleverness to the user
13:46 szabgab but I can see a value in only fetching some of the values from a large array on the other side
13:47 zenog szabgab: Very neat would of course be a GUI for exploring complex data structures, but this may be overkill for now ;-)
13:49 Corion nkh wrote something like that for Gtk I think - Data::TreeDumper (::GTK , ::ASCII and ::DHTML ) - maybe writing ::Wx isn't that hard
13:49 zenog I think I need some more time to think about what's best here ... maybe on the weekend ...
13:51 zenog Corion: There is also this DataWalker plugin, maybe this could be connected to the debugger as well ...
13:51 zenog Let's see. I need to get back to my real work, some more things on the TODO list before tonight ...
13:53 zenog I am still exploring many things in Padre's source code, and every time a have a look at it I see new things ...
13:56 szabgab zenog, same with me :-)
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14:11 Hyppolit svn: r11393 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11393
14:11 Hyppolit debugger: improved variable detection in the editor
14:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
14:11 zenog Comments/suggestions about my commits are always welcome, I am willing to learn ;-)
14:24 Hyppolit svn: r11394 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11394
14:24 Hyppolit Initialise the second-generation task manager during startup at the same time as the first-generation one
14:24 Hyppolit branches/Padre-TaskRewrite/lib/Padre/
14:34 Hyppolit svn: r11395 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11395
14:34 Hyppolit tidy
14:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
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14:39 Hyppolit #929: debugger: add watch under cursor (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/929#comment:1 ]
14:40 Hyppolit svn: r11396 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/11396
14:40 Hyppolit Menu: More consistent capitalization of menu entries
14:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Action/
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18:50 CSJewell FYI for Padre developers on Windows: Strawberry Perl 5.12.0.0 has finally been released. The 64-bit version may be painful as of yet (the release notes mention that a dev version of Wx must be used) but please do try, with both 32 and 64-bit, and see what works, please!
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18:56 kthakore CSJewell: how do I upgrade strawbery without killing everything?
18:58 CSJewell kthakore: Give me 15 minutes.
18:59 kthakore CSJewell: oO ok
19:13 CSJewell kthakore: Had to go and do some stuff for my father.
19:14 kthakore oh ok np
19:14 kthakore CSJewell: I was in no rush
19:14 kthakore CSJewell: is you father ok?
19:14 kthakore your*
19:15 CSJewell He is.  He just had me looking for stuff.  A "major edition" (5.8 to 5.10 or 5.10 to 5.12) upgrade would require you to rebuild all XS modules anyway, but the 2010 editions leave the site directory alone when the second number is the same.
19:17 CSJewell They do wipe the site directory on major edition upgrades, because the p5p people don't guarantee binary compatibility when that digit changes.
19:17 CSJewell Does that answer your question?
19:17 CSJewell kthakore: ^^^
19:18 kthakore yeah
19:18 kthakore :\
19:18 kthakore ok
19:18 kthakore I will do it later
19:19 CSJewell s/don't guarantee/will break/
19:19 CSJewell by the way.
19:20 kthakore ok
19:20 kthakore CSJewell: thanks
19:20 kthakore CSJewell: btw single and double player for FB works with straberry
19:20 CSJewell Nice!
19:21 kthakore CSJewell: go play it! http://github.com/kthakore/frozen-bubble
19:21 kthakore CSJewell: we need more testers for that
19:22 CSJewell I may do that later.  After a Strawberry release, I tend to want to take a break from Perl for a day or two - for obvious reasons. It isn't a small job.
19:23 kthakore I'll bet
19:23 kthakore I am taking a break from S
19:23 kthakore SDL too
19:24 kthakore ok gtg get coffee
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20:07 El_Che http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application​-Development/25-Reasons-Why-Perl-Kee​ps-Rising-in-the-Enterprise-784919/
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20:37 szabgab and we are features in it!
20:38 szabgab and I am going to sleep now
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