Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-10-29

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Time Nick Message
00:43 Alias_ hrm
00:43 Alias_ I think I've reached my tolerance for Padre bugs
00:44 * Alias_ hacks a bit more on some stuff that isn't working
01:00 jazzanova joined #padre
01:01 Sewi joined #padre
01:19 Sewi left #padre
01:51 kthakore hi Alias_
01:54 Alias_ hi
01:55 Alias_ How goes the SDL journey
02:27 |Sno| left #padre
02:58 Hyppolit svn: r12933 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12933
02:58 Hyppolit - Directory tree right-click refresh now triggers a "rebrowse" task to
02:58 Hyppolit synchronise all filesystem changes from disk to the tree (ADAMK)
02:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Directory/
03:02 Hyppolit svn: r12934 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12934
03:02 Hyppolit Adding the entry for 0.73
03:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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03:14 kthakore Alias_: oops sorry
03:14 kthakore Alias_: I was studing for businness
03:14 kthakore lost track of sanity and time
03:14 kthakore Alias_: SDL is good mostly. New awesome, fast release of SDL is comming up.
03:14 kthakore also Alien::SDL is super stable now
03:14 kthakore the Manual is comming along
03:15 kthakore http://sdlperl.ath.cx/release/SDL_Manual.pdf
03:15 kthakore http://sdlperl.ath.cx/releases/SDL_Manual.pdf
03:22 Alias_ cool
03:22 Alias_ Did you see my idea about replicating minecraft in 2d?
03:22 Alias_ Might be a neato test project
03:25 kthakore hahah
03:25 kthakore if I can get two minutes to breath maybe I will
03:25 kthakore Alias_: where is that ide?
03:25 kthakore does your crazy idea come with code or graphics or design?
03:26 kthakore :D
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03:29 Alias_ Sort of
03:29 Alias_ minecraft.com
03:29 kthakore bah ok
03:29 Alias_ The beauty of the idea is that the 3d version of the game is super-simple and has rippable graphics
03:29 kthakore ahahhahaha
03:29 kthakore a game is never super simple
03:29 Alias_ So for the 2d version you take the side panel of each cube
03:29 Alias_ no no, not simple like that
03:29 kthakore go see zelda ocarina of time 2d
03:29 kthakore failed project
03:30 Alias_ Go look at minecraft.com
03:30 kthakore 3d -> 2d is not 'simple'
03:30 Alias_ The world is made of cubes
03:30 Alias_ All cubes have textures 16 pixels wide
03:30 kthakore Alias_: So? you think that makes the game easy?
03:30 Alias_ I think that means that the 2d game would be made of squares...
03:30 kthakore he has a quadtree+ bsp implementation to show that many cubes
03:30 kthakore Alias_: right how will the layers work?
03:30 Alias_ Take a horizontal slice
03:30 Alias_ er, vertical
03:31 kthakore yeah
03:31 Alias_ So it's a minecraft platformer
03:31 Alias_ I'm not saying it would be trivial
03:31 kthakore so it is still a scenegraph + random terrain maker
03:31 Alias_ Just that it would be funny and media-whorish
03:31 kthakore Alias_: can I be frank?
03:31 kthakore most of the perl devs don't know the effort it takes to make a game
03:32 kthakore we need a lot of work
03:32 kthakore also media whorish hasn't worked in the pass
03:32 kthakore past*
03:32 * kthakore looks at lacuna
03:32 kthakore lacuna client in SDL
03:32 kthakore is pretty much dead
03:32 Alias_ That's not media whorish
03:32 Alias_ Nobody plays Lacuna
03:33 kthakore hahahahhaha
03:33 Alias_ A million odd people have played minecraft
03:33 kthakore right how many PERL ppl?
03:33 kthakore enough to help with dev?
03:33 Alias_ Dunno
03:33 Alias_ Maybe it's not a real game then, just a tech demo
03:33 kthakore not a lot
03:33 Alias_ Anyways
03:33 Alias_ I've said my piece
03:33 kthakore perl devs don't care about games
03:34 kthakore I need to get new blood from outside
03:34 kthakore :D
03:34 Alias_ Like people that, say, play minecraft? :)
03:34 kthakore yup
03:34 Alias_ BTW, it's not particularly good
03:34 Alias_ It's slow as fuck
03:34 kthakore hahaah
03:34 kthakore tat is the other thing about games
03:35 kthakore even a good one is underwhelming to users
03:35 Alias_ For something with almost no textures, and not massive amounts of polys, it's way slower than I would have expected
03:35 kthakore hahaah
03:35 kthakore do you know how many poly gones are out there in the map?
03:35 kthakore how many collisions per cycle?
03:35 Alias_ In visible distance?
03:35 kthakore yeah
03:35 kthakore also go see the lighting
03:36 kthakore shawdow is HARD!
03:36 Alias_ So 64x64x8x2 ish
03:36 Alias_ There's no shadows
03:36 kthakore there is
03:36 kthakore go stand under a tree
03:36 Alias_ Only per cube
03:36 kthakore that is projection
03:36 kthakore that is HARD
03:36 kthakore trust me
03:36 Alias_ It's vertical projection
03:36 kthakore yes that is hard
03:36 kthakore it is
03:36 Alias_ No matter which direction the sun is, shadows point down
03:36 kthakore doing that in real time is HARD Alias_
03:36 kthakore be skeptical
03:36 kthakore then try to make a game
03:37 kthakore then you will understand
03:37 Alias_ It's also not in real time
03:37 kthakore it is!
03:37 kthakore go make a tunnel
03:37 kthakore from a cliff
03:37 Alias_ Well, from your actions it might be
03:37 kthakore right
03:37 Alias_ But from the sub it propogates incrementally
03:37 Alias_ sub
03:37 Alias_ sun
03:37 kthakore also the rendering is not blocks
03:37 kthakore it is floating point
03:37 Alias_ Anyways
03:38 kthakore cause you can jump and move around
03:38 kthakore in a non grid fashion
03:38 kthakore not to mention the AI on the stupid shit moving arount
03:38 kthakore texture loading and rendering in real time
03:38 kthakore also counters on things like crop, ... so on
03:38 kthakore that is stored in memory
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03:38 kthakore and many many more things
03:39 Alias_ Even with no AI either
03:39 Alias_ On the multiplayer server with no animals or monsters it's still slow as hell
03:39 Alias_ And no crops
03:39 Alias_ Maybe trees...
03:39 Alias_ But still
03:39 kthakore Alias_: do this data all over the internet and you don't expect lag?
03:39 kthakore tehy use udp packets
03:39 kthakore which come randomly due to differing lags
03:39 kthakore then update a huge game world
03:39 kthakore and render
03:39 kthakore ....
03:40 kthakore hmmmm that will be slow
03:40 kthakore Alias_: I am being hard on you cause this is what pisses me off about non game developers
03:41 Alias_ Wonder if he's doing software render
03:41 Alias_ It doesn't ever full-screen
03:41 Alias_ and it's all in Java
03:41 Alias_ It's slow regardless
03:41 Alias_ Slow on multiplayer, slow on local
03:41 Alias_ It's a render problem
03:41 Alias_ And it's semi-random
03:41 Alias_ Seems to come and go too
03:41 Alias_ I'm almost tempted to go learn C and write a game just to show how not hard it is :)
03:42 Alias_ Mostly I think his problem is potentially bad design choice up front
03:42 kthakore DO IT!
03:42 kthakore DO IT!
03:42 Alias_ Windowed game, Java implementation
03:42 kthakore Alias_: I will pay you what ever is in my bank
03:42 * kthakore looks
03:42 Alias_ Possibly no GL or DirectX or C
03:42 kthakore 200$ canadian
03:42 kthakore RIGHT NOW!
03:42 Alias_ If he picked an innapropriate technology stack, I'm not surprised it's slow
03:42 Alias_ Just dissapointed
03:43 kthakore Alias_: sure you are superman of genius (although he is using Java GL )
03:43 kthakore Alias_: where do I send you 200$
03:43 Alias_ He is?
03:43 kthakore yes
03:43 Alias_ Wonder why no fullscreen then
03:43 kthakore hehehhehe
03:43 Alias_ And why it doesn't crash my graphics card when everything else 3d does
03:44 kthakore hmm it uses my 3d card
03:44 kthakore so he has both software and hardware render
03:44 kthakore wow
03:44 kthakore hard core
03:44 Alias_ maaaaybe
03:44 kthakore Alias_: also when are you learning C to write a game
03:44 kthakore Alias_: I will hound you forever
03:44 Alias_ When ccan doesn't suck
03:44 kthakore ok use anyhthing
03:44 kthakore use perl + OpenGL
03:44 Alias_ I tried to learn C, decided C sucked without a CPAN, and then found a kernel developer to create a CCAN for me
03:45 Alias_ Now I'm waiting for CCAN to fill up a bit more, and I'll try C again :)
03:45 kthakore you are looking for C libraries wrong
03:45 kthakore all wrong
03:45 kthakore the rigth way is lang.c or #c on freenode
03:45 Alias_ nah, I'm doing it right
03:45 kthakore Alias_: w/e
03:45 Alias_ I have two esteemed kernel devs telling me so
03:46 kthakore I want an attempt of a game from you
03:46 * kthakore is waiting
03:46 Alias_ ok, at some point :)
03:46 * kthakore is waiting
03:46 kthakore still waiting
03:46 kthakore once you realize the effort
03:46 kthakore just to do simple shit
03:47 Alias_ I'm in the middle of implementing an clustering router atm
03:47 Alias_ I'll do a game tomorrow
03:47 Alias_ For some definition of tomorrow
03:48 Alias_ The more awesome SDL is, the sooner I'll try
03:48 kthakore SDL Manual is there
03:48 Alias_ I figured I'd give you guys time to mature it a bit before I tried
03:48 kthakore w/e
03:48 Alias_ Sounds like it's still changing a lot
03:48 Alias_ w/e ?
03:48 kthakore yeah
03:48 kthakore we will always suck
03:48 Alias_ No, define w/e
03:48 kthakore *until* people try it
03:48 kthakore whatever*
03:49 Alias_ oh
03:49 Alias_ I will at some point
03:49 Alias_ Just got other distractions till Nov 20th
03:49 Alias_ Barely any time to hack on anything not $work
03:49 Alias_ I'm playing a, wait for it, sport
03:49 Alias_ Until Nov 20th
03:49 Alias_ Being actually athletic and stuff
03:50 kthakore wow!
03:50 kthakore what sport?
03:50 Alias_ Roller Derby
03:50 kthakore I took up volleyball
03:50 kthakore haha cool
03:50 Alias_ I'm doing a one-time demonstration bout
03:50 kthakore cool
03:50 kthakore sounds good
03:50 Alias_ All the referees (I'm a newb ref) vs an All-Star girls team
03:50 Alias_ Boys vs Girls. Full Contact. On Skates.
03:50 Alias_ I'm both excited and petrified
03:50 kthakore do you need to gain weight or loss geek fat?
03:50 kthakore haha cool!
03:51 Alias_ Both
03:51 Alias_ I'm down 5 kilos and 3% body fat in the last 8 weeks
03:51 kthakore wow!
03:51 kthakore you are lucky
03:51 kthakore I am prolly 28% bf now
03:51 Alias_ I've got the genes for a relatively muscular build
03:51 Alias_ Which I've never used
03:51 kthakore I was a lot higher
03:51 Alias_ I'm 28% now, was 31ish
03:51 kthakore high five!
03:51 Alias_ Meh
03:52 Alias_ Need another 5kg
03:52 kthakore high five to getting healthy
03:52 kthakore I need to lose a good 20 lps
03:52 kthakore lbs
03:52 kthakore cause I am short
03:52 Alias_ Also, since derby is almost entirely a womens sport, it balances out the IT community
03:52 kthakore haha
03:52 kthakore perfect
03:52 Alias_ If rather lesbian heavy
03:52 kthakore I want to take up Dancing for that reason
03:53 kthakore lesbians are fun to talk too!
03:53 Alias_ some of them
03:53 Alias_ They clique up a fair bit
03:53 kthakore ah ... that sucks
03:53 kthakore I mean real lesbians
03:53 Alias_ It's no biggie
03:53 kthakore not the super sterotypical ones
03:53 Alias_ I've only been in for a few months, it takes time for them to get used to and trust new men
03:54 Alias_ There's all kinds of gender politics
03:54 kthakore w/e they are just people with a varying point of view on stuff
03:54 kthakore that is just awesome
03:54 kthakore except when their view on stuff is wrogn ( ooooh I am Alias_ games are sooooooo easy)
03:54 kthakore :p
03:54 Alias_ I didn't say SO easy
03:54 kthakore bah
03:54 Alias_ I said RELATIVELY easy
03:55 Alias_ RELATIVE to something like Quake
03:55 kthakore bah humbug
03:55 kthakore HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
03:55 Alias_ Or a sim city game, or whatever
03:55 kthakore HAHHAHAHAHAHHA\
03:55 kthakore HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
03:55 Alias_ Calm the hell down
03:55 kthakore it is like comparing SQLite to say Mojo
03:55 kthakore different things!
03:55 kthakore Quake is a FPS
03:55 kthakore Sim City is a strategy
03:56 kthakore game
03:56 Alias_ So what, there's still massive amounts of non-coding work in both
03:56 Alias_ Epic amounts
03:56 kthakore MineCraft is a god like game ( building stuff )
03:56 kthakore but commong
03:56 Alias_ minecraft is waaaay more Just Code
03:56 kthakore common
03:56 kthakore Alias_: really? Mojo code != SQLite Code
03:56 kthakore the effort is different
03:57 kthakore it is like comparing Violin and Piano
03:57 Alias_ I figure on any project recruiting artists is going to be much much harder than coders
03:57 kthakore and saying Piano is easier
03:57 Alias_ So it should be easier from a project/recruiting point of view
03:57 Alias_ but I could be wrong
03:57 kthakore nah the art work is not a factor in mine craft
03:57 kthakore I will give you that
03:58 kthakore but the techincal parts of the game over compenstates
03:58 kthakore man
03:58 Alias_ I agree with that
03:58 Alias_ But it does mean you could solo a 2d minecraft clone
03:58 Alias_ You don't NEED a whole team
03:58 kthakore I could
03:58 Alias_ Thus, relatively easier
03:58 kthakore but this guy had capital
03:58 kthakore and NOTHING else
03:59 Alias_ you sure about the capital bit?
03:59 kthakore he had money
03:59 kthakore go see his blog
03:59 kthakore he won a lot of contest
03:59 kthakore sold other games before
03:59 Alias_ ok
03:59 kthakore he also did nothing but this game for a long time
03:59 Alias_ I concur
03:59 kthakore I can't do that
04:00 Alias_ I once spent an entire year on one project
04:00 Alias_ You get a lot done with that kind of intensity
04:00 Alias_ 50,000 lines of code generation magic and 40 CPAN modules in my case
04:00 kthakore I have School Exams + Project + SDL + SDL_Manual + ... maybe sleep
04:00 kthakore I get little time for the manual as it is
04:01 kthakore and I still need to do SDLx:;Sound so I can do tat chapter in SDL_Manual
04:01 Alias_ Writing projects suck, I agree
04:01 kthakore no what I mean is
04:01 Alias_ I remember writing the POD for PPI with immense pain
04:01 Alias_ 75+ modules worth of POD from scratch
04:01 kthakore I get 3 hrs -4.5 hrs to sleep right now
04:01 Alias_ Please note, I'm not suggesting that YOU do it
04:01 kthakore then who will?
04:01 Alias_ Just that it's a good idea for the ideas list :)
04:02 kthakore no one will do this
04:02 kthakore I can only help by starting it
04:02 kthakore then it DIES
04:02 kthakore DIES A horrible death
04:02 * kthakore looks at Spinner and Lacuna Client
04:02 kthakore and I am not blaming anyone
04:02 kthakore but game dev community in perl is like
04:03 kthakore me, Froggs and a bunch of random drifters
04:03 Alias_ Sure sure
04:03 Alias_ you're bootstrapping something from zero
04:03 kthakore yup
04:03 Alias_ It's gunna take a while, I agree
04:03 kthakore so tat is why oooooh I have AWESOME IDEA FOR YOU
04:03 Alias_ My hope though, is that at some point you'll see CPAN modules for games
04:03 Alias_ And that's where the exciting bit is
04:03 Alias_ Want a physics thingy for your platformer, use Whatever;
04:03 kthakore I hope eilara puts his games up
04:03 Alias_ Or something that does Blah
04:04 kthakore I need at least 40-60 games
04:04 kthakore written with SDLx
04:04 kthakore to make it production quality
04:04 kthakore right now we have 3
04:04 kthakore Spinner, Neverhood, and eilara's camel defense
04:04 kthakore all three of them are not complete in the most conservative sense
04:05 kthakore and it took 5 months for those to pop up
04:05 kthakore so in 3 years
04:05 kthakore we will have game dev community for perl
04:05 kthakore ...
04:05 * kthakore sigs
04:05 kthakore sighs
04:05 Alias_ Welcome to Real World development
04:05 Alias_ Padre is around 2.4 years old
04:05 Alias_ And it's finally starting to be vaguely usable day to day
04:05 kthakore sounds right
04:05 kthakore yeah I know this
04:05 Alias_ PPI took 3 years to get to 1.0
04:05 kthakore but I need 3 more years
04:06 kthakore SDL is 1.2 years old
04:06 Alias_ Wait a minute
04:06 Alias_ The NEW SDL is 1.2 years old?
04:06 kthakore YEAH!
04:06 kthakore go see
04:06 Alias_ That doesn't sound right
04:06 kthakore I start august 2009
04:06 kthakore I rewrote by Dec 2010
04:06 Alias_ the "we're gunna throw it away and start again" thing
04:07 kthakore yeah
04:07 kthakore Alias_: go see the git log dood
04:07 kthakore http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL/graphs/impact
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04:08 kthakore actually 26th of July I started
04:09 kthakore 1 year 3 months 2 days
04:09 kthakore 1.26 years
04:09 kthakore http://www.wolframalpha.com/i​nput/?i=26+July+2009+to+today
04:09 Alias_ First release of the new era seems to start Sun Nov 29 2009
04:10 kthakore http://www.wolframalpha.com/i​nput/?i=29+Nov+2009+to+today
04:10 Alias_ Was the august 9th release a skeleton?
04:10 kthakore Yeah
04:10 kthakore I was hacking since August for new stuff
04:10 Alias_ righto
04:10 kthakore it wasn't official
04:10 kthakore till Nov
04:10 Alias_ Anyways, you're on a pretty typical schedule from what I can see
04:10 Alias_ 1 year to prove the concept
04:10 kthakore hahahaahha
04:11 Alias_ 2 years to have something usable
04:11 kthakore no
04:11 kthakore 3 more years
04:11 Alias_ 3 years to have something that doesn't suck
04:11 kthakore yeah
04:11 kthakore that
04:11 kthakore sigh
04:11 kthakore by then SDL 1.3 will be ot
04:11 kthakore pygame will catch up
04:11 kthakore sigh ...
04:11 kthakore I will be obsolete
04:11 Alias_ You can't invest in projects based on where things are now
04:12 Alias_ You have to assume there'll be movement
04:12 Alias_ We still have the packaging advantage
04:12 Alias_ CPAN'able physics engines and game logic dropins and what not would be something pygame can't do
04:12 kthakore yeap
04:12 kthakore I still have work to do in that area
04:12 kthakore for ODE
04:13 Alias_ Padre survives because it's got the developer feedback loop, not because it's a better IDE
04:13 kthakore if I have SDL_Manual done by Nov end
04:13 kthakore I can have 1 year birthday and marketing for SDL
04:13 kthakore SDL 3.00 or something
04:13 kthakore and be like MAKE FUCKING GAMES NAO! GORRAM PERL PPL!
04:14 kthakore ok dude
04:14 kthakore I am not aussie
04:14 kthakore so I am supposed to be sleeping right now
04:14 kthakore good night
04:14 Alias_ yup
04:14 Alias_ night
04:15 kthakore I will hold you to one game in Nove
04:15 kthakore I will try to get you SDL_Manual by then
04:15 Alias_ AFTER november
04:15 kthakore just for you Alias_
04:15 kthakore ok after november
04:15 kthakore so I will have Dec 1st a book for Alias_ to make 1 game!
04:15 kthakore ok?
04:15 Hyppolit ok is the output of Test::Simple
04:16 kthakore ok night
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05:23 azawawi good morning
05:23 azawawi Alias__: ping
05:24 Alias_ hi
05:24 Alias_ Just to confirm, you're not going to dzilify the main Padre distro right?
05:24 azawawi ofcourse
05:24 azawawi i wont
05:24 Alias_ excellent
05:24 Alias_ thanks
05:24 Alias_ Just confirming
05:25 Alias_ Sometimes when people go on rampages like your current one, I get nervous :)
05:25 azawawi dont worry... im stable :)
05:25 Alias_ Thought so, just checking :)
05:26 azawawi one quick question about Padre dependencies
05:26 pece left #padre
05:26 Alias_ shoot
05:26 azawawi "Padre => 0.57" in most Plugins
05:26 azawawi or
05:26 azawawi "Padre => 0" ?
05:26 azawawi which is better
05:26 Alias_ Well, in one case you can't install it from CPAN
05:27 Alias_ In the other, you can install it over the top of an older working plugin, and then the new one just won't load
05:27 Alias_ Those are your two failure modes
05:27 Alias_ I prefer the former I think
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05:27 szabgab good morning
05:27 Alias_ hi
05:27 azawawi hi szabgab
05:28 azawawi szabgab: It is cloudy over here. Looks it is going to rain... The storm is coming :)
05:28 szabgab azawawi: what happened, you removed the breaks from you coding self ?
05:28 szabgab we have heatwave here but it is supposed to break today
05:29 azawawi szabgab: november is dev-month... december is gaming month :)
05:31 azawawi szabgab: now most of the dzil-fied padre plugins are using http://search.cpan.org/~azawawi/Dist-Zi​lla-PluginBundle-PadrePlugin-0.06/lib/D​ist/Zilla/PluginBundle/PadrePlugin.pm for the build process
05:32 szabgab nice, if I had time to look at these things now :)
05:32 azawawi szabgab: quit playing lacuna or thinking about it :)
05:33 pece left #padre
05:33 azawawi szabgab: those online games can really waste time if you are not careful about it...
05:33 szabgab oh I have already quit a week ago
05:34 szabgab I just have lots of $work nowdays and working on the Perl Ecosystem Group as well
05:34 azawawi szabgab: the best way is to put a schedule and stick to it. Otherwise, you will become disconnected from RL (real-life) :)
05:34 azawawi szabgab: believe me i know :)
05:34 * azawawi backlogs
05:36 szabgab Alias_: can you maybe convince your bosses to sponsor/become member in http://perl-ecosystem.org/ ?
05:36 pece joined #padre
05:37 azawawi btw, I found a couple of Padre-Plugin-* that are just ideas... Shall I just kill them? I am the plugin janitor now :)
05:38 azawawi For example, ::BadCode, ::Perldoc...
05:38 szabgab I don't think they are an issue as long as they are not released
05:39 szabgab but maybe add something to the README to make it obvious to the next person
05:39 azawawi they're not
05:39 azawawi they're placeholders...
05:39 * szabgab is very bad at throwing away things
05:39 * azawawi is good at that thing :)
05:40 szabgab well, if they don't have any substance in them then you can remove them of course
05:41 azawawi that's what svn is for... you can retrieve them later if you need
05:43 szabgab sure, if you still remember they had ever been there
05:43 szabgab for which you need to have some memory cells :)
05:44 Hyppolit svn: r12935 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12935
05:44 Hyppolit [BadCode, Perldoc] Deleted since they were not released and had no real stuff in them. Please revert if you need them.
05:44 Hyppolit trunk/
05:44 azawawi less code maintained = better
05:45 azawawi that's what im trying to do at the moment
05:45 szabgab that's good
05:46 szabgab yesterday I spent almost all the day uniting 4 almost equal scripts at a client
05:46 azawawi less boilerplate, less stuff to know when you're writing a new plugin
05:46 azawawi = more contributers :)
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05:47 azawawi szabgab: google chrome is version 8 btw now
05:47 azawawi hi Sewi
05:48 Sewi hi azawawi
05:48 szabgab I went back using FF
05:48 szabgab hi Sewi
05:48 azawawi szabgab: i bet they're going to version 9 to compete against IE9 beta
05:48 Sewi hi szabgab
05:48 azawawi szabgab: marketing...
05:48 szabgab but I think the major issue we have is that we have not yet managed to get more people build interesting plugins for PAdre
05:49 azawawi Padre needs more platform integration in my opinion
05:49 szabgab what do you mean by that ?
05:49 Sewi We lost two Padre users during the last days due to the old Scintilla version. Any chance that WxPerl will be upgraded soon?
05:49 szabgab Sewi: that won't help unfortunatelly
05:50 * azawawi digs up his old Alien::STC project...
05:50 azawawi Sewi: i will see what I can do about that  :)
05:51 Sewi szabgab: I thought Scintilla is being used as part of WxWidgets and the WxWidgets project has to switch to a current scintilla version...#
05:51 azawawi Sewi: Scintilla was the first open source i contributed to... btw
05:51 azawawi Sewi: wxWidgets is moving so slow for us
05:53 szabgab azawawi: well, if you could make something that let's us use the latest version of Scintilla
05:53 szabgab that would be sooooo awesome
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05:54 azawawi cool
05:54 Sewi azawawi++
05:56 szabgab and you might get some help from Mattia I guess
05:56 azawawi yeah i should... my XS skills are bad atm
05:56 azawawi let me first finish my TODOs for this weekend :)
05:57 * azawawi finished backlogging
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05:58 azawawi szabgab: can one run padre in user-land instead of sudo padre on ubuntu?
05:59 szabgab azawawi: sure
06:00 szabgab noone should sudo and run padre
06:00 szabgab but we used to have a bug in that during test root created the .padre and then the regular user could not run it
06:00 azawawi szabgab: hmmm... let me uninstall it and try it again
06:01 szabgab I have everything installed using local::lib in my home directory
06:02 azawawi a tutorial on doing that would be great btw
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06:07 szabgab azawawi: I think we have that in the wiki
06:07 szabgab but basically 1) install local::lib
06:07 szabgab and then  cpan Padre
06:08 azawawi sudo cpan Padre
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06:15 szabgab azawawi: no need for sudo there
06:15 szabgab the whole idea of local::lib is that you install in your own directory where you don't need sudo
06:15 szabgab so any user can do it, even if they don't have sudo rights
06:17 azawawi I see. Thanks.
06:17 szabgab oh and you install local::lib too as regular user
06:17 szabgab see the bootstraping in the docs of local::lib
06:18 * waxhead is playing lacuna these days..
06:19 waxhead frustrating waiting on things to happen...
06:19 waxhead Shall we have a release this weekend?
06:19 Hyppolit svn: r12936 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12936
06:19 Hyppolit [Alarm] Released 0.13 after being rebuild with the new [@PadrePlugin]
06:19 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Alarm/
06:21 azawawi waxhead: yeah why not if it is stable :)
06:21 azawawi waxhead: and hi :)
06:21 szabgab hi waxhead
06:21 szabgab I managed to escape from Lacuna
06:21 waxhead hey azawawi, been watching the backlogs with interest... you've been busy
06:22 waxhead szabgab, not sure I'm willing to do that yet... I'm trying to get the balance of things with it.. working out what to upgrade etc... sent out a few probes, want to mine an asteroid or planet only to find I need to hvae huge amouts of electricity stored and not having the storage for it!!!
06:23 waxhead I didn't read the strategy guides, so have been working backwards from my "mistakes"...
06:26 waxhead and I've started toying with android developement... to build a lacuna client so I can track my empire while out and about...
06:26 waxhead so it's back to learning java again.. :-/
06:27 szabgab yeah, it took me some time to stop thinking about my strategy even after I left
06:27 szabgab waxhead: you could build it in Perl
06:27 waxhead for android?
06:28 waxhead I could build a web page that does it for me I guess.. and use that to keep me posted...
06:28 * waxhead wonders if there are any Lancua modules on cpan yet
06:28 Sewi waxhead: Android has Perl support now :)
06:29 waxhead without some hacked rom?
06:29 szabgab even if that remaind a command line tool, that would be awesome
06:29 * waxhead googles
06:30 szabgab http://blogs.perl.org/users/sawye​r_x/2010/10/leaving-android.html
06:30 szabgab waxhead: it is called SL4A
06:31 szabgab Scripting Languages for Android
06:31 szabgab I think
06:36 waxhead yep.. layer I think the l is...
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07:13 Hyppolit svn: r12937 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12937
07:13 Hyppolit [CSS,Ecliptic,Encrypt,HTML,HTMLExport,LaTeX,NYTPro​f,Parrot,Perl6,PerlCritic,PerlTidy,SpellCheck,XS] Updated Changes and simplified SpellCheck's version scheme
07:13 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-CSS/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Ecliptic/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Encrypt/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-HTML/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-HTMLExport/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-NYTProf/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Parrot/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlCritic/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlTidy/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-XS/
07:14 szabgab reduced my inbox to only 73, now I can try to do something else
07:21 Hyppolit svn: r12938 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12938
07:21 Hyppolit [CSS,HTML,LaTeX] POD =NAME fixes
07:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-CSS/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-HTML/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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07:34 Hyppolit svn: r12939 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12939
07:34 Hyppolit [JavaScript] Updated Changes before the release
07:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-JavaScript/
07:44 Hyppolit svn: r12940 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12940
07:44 Hyppolit [JavaScript] Removed unneeded Class::Autouse dependency
07:44 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-JavaScript/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-JavaScript/lib/Padre/Plugin/
07:53 Hyppolit svn: r12941 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/12941
07:53 Hyppolit [Encrypt,Perl6,PerlCritic,HTML,JavaScript,Parrot,L​aTeX,CSS,XS,PerlTidy,Ecliptic,NYTProf,SpellCheck] Updated Changes after being released to cpan
07:53 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-CSS/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Ecliptic/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Encrypt/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-HTML/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-JavaScript/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-NYTProf/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Parrot/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlCritic/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlTidy/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-XS/
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08:09 kaare heh azawawi is going release crazy :-)
08:09 azawawi kaare: release... release... zombie :)
08:10 kaare Are you trying to fill up CPAN??
08:10 azawawi CPAN cant be filled :)
08:10 * azawawi installs xubuntu :)
08:13 kaare btw do we have a plugin to enable moose for new tabs?
08:13 kaare You know, File -> New -> Moose Module or File -> New -> Moose Role
08:13 kaare Or sth
08:13 azawawi kaare: I read about Dist::Zilla 2 weeks ago and i thought so cool i should try it on Padre plugins...
08:13 azawawi kaare: not at the moment
08:14 azawawi kaare: im working on the new file mechanism to extend Padre file menu
08:14 kaare azawawi: Same here (re dzil)
08:14 kaare Would it be easy to make a moose plugin when you are finished?
08:14 azawawi yup
08:15 kaare Or a "my own pattern" newalizer
08:15 azawawi start doing via a plugin and release it :)
08:15 azawawi and when the new api is released in 0.73 you can re-use it
08:16 kaare Any other similar plugins?
08:17 azawawi Perl 6?
08:17 azawawi has a new menu and templates..
08:17 kaare I'll take a look at that.
08:17 azawawi but no wizard
08:18 kaare How about project support in Padre now?
08:18 kaare Eclipse style or otherwise
08:18 kaare What is the current state?
08:19 azawawi you need to ask Alias about it
08:20 azawawi and reneeb is doing a Dist::Zilla plugin
08:20 azawawi http://github.com/reneeb/Padre-Plugin-DistZilla
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09:10 * azawawi movies &
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16:47 javuchi hello
16:48 javuchi i must be doing something wrong
16:48 javuchi how can i put a breakpoint
16:48 javuchi (using latest Padre on Ubuntu)
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17:17 kthakore javuchi: in Padre?
17:17 kthakore javuchi: hold on lets see
17:18 javuchi yes
17:18 javuchi it gives me an error
17:19 javuchi Debugger not running
17:19 kthakore javuchi: what does it say?
17:20 javuchi Debugger not running
17:20 kthakore Start the debugger
17:20 kthakore Go to Debug->Step In
17:20 kthakore press s
17:21 kthakore Works for me
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17:31 javuchi Debug::Client: Line is undef. Buffer is '' at /home/javi/program/perl/lib/site_​perl/5.11.4/Padre/Wx/Debugger.pm line 302
17:31 javuchi Perl exited with active threads:
17:31 javuchi 2 running and unjoined
17:31 javuchi 0 finished and unjoined
17:31 javuchi 0 running and detached
17:34 kthakore hmmm....
17:34 kthakore javuchi: make a bug report
17:36 Sewi javuchi: Did you start Padre with any special arguments?
17:36 javuchi Sewi: no
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17:41 Sewi Your Debug::Client is up-to-date?
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