Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2010-11-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
02:19 user_8305 joined #padre
02:19 user_8305 question
02:20 user_8305 new to Perl
02:20 user_8305 using Padre
02:20 user_8305 want to declare and print a variable
02:20 user_8305 $radius = 50;
02:21 user_8305 print $radius;
02:21 user_8305 erroring...
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06:59 Hyppolit #1064: Build failures on Padre 0.74 Perl 5.8.9 (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1064 ]
07:02 kthakore hi Sewi
07:02 kthakore azawawi:  ping
07:02 Sewi hi kthakore
07:03 szabgab gm
07:03 azawawi kthakore: :)
07:03 azawawi gm everyone
07:03 azawawi or ford :)
07:04 kthakore azawawi: you pinged me a long time ago
07:04 szabgab azawawi, if OrLite is broken on perl 5.8.9 then ping Alias
07:04 kthakore hi szabgab
07:05 azawawi szabgab: i already sent an email and ticket-ed it :)
07:05 * azawawi tests autodia plugin
07:06 azawawi szabgab: we need to say which versions are our test beds
07:07 azawawi szabgab: which Perl versions that is...
07:08 azawawi szabgab: see http://bulknews.typepad.com/blog/20​10/11/re-what-versions-of-core-perl​-should-module-authors-support.html
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07:32 Hyppolit svn: r13253 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13253
07:32 Hyppolit [Autodia] It is now working again with the new Padre API but fails to generate UML classes as promised :(
07:32 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Autodia/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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07:47 Hyppolit svn: r13254 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13254
07:47 Hyppolit [Autodia] Added GraphViz 2.04 dependency
07:47 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Autodia/
07:49 szabgab azawawi: right
07:50 Hyppolit svn: r13255 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13255
07:50 Hyppolit [Autodia] Added a note to the POD to explain that you need to install graphviz first
07:50 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Autodia/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Autodia/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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07:54 * azawawi prepares to engage Terrans with his Zerg forces in SCII :)
07:55 * azawawi game time & :)
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08:17 kaare szabgab: How about some blog posts about Padre's current state?
08:18 kaare I lost track of the development. I'd like to know what's up with debugging, how about some project management etc
08:19 kaare And version control interface. But that's integral to the project management
08:22 kaare Debugging: My dream is to be able to debug my cat or mojo app with a Padre full screen debugger.
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09:15 Hyppolit #973: Find in Files: search by file type is in UI, but not supported (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/973#comment:1 ]
09:17 zenog morning ...
09:17 Hyppolit #971: Ack always finds something in .padre/config.db (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/971#comment:1 ]
09:19 Hyppolit #968: [Catalyst plugin] crash (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/968#comment:1 ]
09:19 Hyppolit #877: Clicking "Advanced" button in Tools > Preferences causes current changes to be lost (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/877#comment:1 ]
09:22 Hyppolit #719: TreeCtrl is a mess - renaming of file doesnt work (windows) (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/719#comment:1 ]
09:24 Hyppolit #672: POD doc browser: various different things (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/672#comment:1 ]
09:24 Hyppolit #668: Configuration: Review this assumption (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/668#comment:1 ]
09:25 Hyppolit #605: Add cross reference functionality to Padre (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/605#comment:1 ]
09:25 Hyppolit #661: segfault when closing the document browser using x (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/661#comment:1 ]
09:26 Hyppolit #565: Lexically replace variable does not work on outer variable (assigned defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/565#comment:4 ]
09:27 Hyppolit #566: remove the Padre planet (blogs) (closed enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/566#comment:1 ]
09:30 Hyppolit #661: segfault when closing the document browser using x (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/661#comment:2 ]
09:34 Sewi azawawi: Any news at the scintilla thing?
09:34 Hyppolit #949: [REPL plugin] The REPL window keeps coming up open even though the plugin is not loaded (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/949#comment:2 ]
09:34 Hyppolit #1063: [PerlTidy plugin] 0.15 lacks translation sources (.po) (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1063#comment:1 ]
09:35 Hyppolit #935: [PerlTidy plugin] Can't install Padre::Plugin::PerlTidy because of missing "default_plugin_dir" field in Padre::Config (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/935#comment:4 ]
09:36 Hyppolit #970: Switching language removes plugin menus (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/970#comment:4 ]
09:37 Hyppolit #864: [REPL plugin] Devel::REPL::Plugin::MultiLine::PPI does not work with Padre::Plugin::REPL (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/864#comment:1 ]
09:37 Hyppolit #861: [REPL plugin] does not pass tests. (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/861#comment:1 ]
09:37 Hyppolit #848: [PerlTidy plugin] Tidy plugin leaves blocking grey box (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/848#comment:2 ]
09:38 Hyppolit #817: [SVN plugin] Reload all files from disk after update run (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/817#comment:2 ]
09:39 Hyppolit #622: [Catalyst plugin] Catalyst Plugin feature (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/622#comment:1 ]
10:25 zenog kaare: There are some open issues with each of those areas - debugging, projects/project browser; version control plugins work, but could be integrated in a much nicer way.
11:25 szabgab kaare: I was planning to have a few screencast sessions with blogs but so far I am very busy with work
11:26 szabgab and my other projects, most notably I spend most of my "spare" time on PEG
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12:12 kaare zenog, szabgab: Yeah nobody has got the time :-(
12:12 kaare szabgab: What's PEG?
12:16 daxim http://perl-ecosystem.org
12:16 szabgab thanks daxim
12:16 daxim this channel needs a fact bot
12:17 szabgab Hyppolit: peg is http://perl-ecosystem.org
12:17 Hyppolit peg was unknown
12:17 Hyppolit peg is now http://perl-ecosystem.org
12:17 szabgab peg?
12:17 Hyppolit peg is http://perl-ecosystem.org
12:17 daxim What's PEG?
12:17 daxim not as smart as purl :p
12:18 szabgab btw I have started to ask here and there a question "What hurts you the most in Perl?"
12:18 daxim I've seen the mail thread
12:18 szabgab daxim: if you can get purl here, go for it
12:18 daxim I can't
12:18 szabgab daxim: you saw the one on module-authors
12:18 szabgab I think the other thread on Israel.pm brought a lot more interesting responses
12:19 daxim I have lots to bitch about, but the vast majorities of problems are mitigated
12:19 daxim so I decided to not join in
12:19 szabgab starts here: http://mail.perl.org.il/pipermai​l/perl/2010-November/011371.html
12:19 daxim for example: ugly deref syntax -> autobox, perl 5.14 style push etc.
12:19 szabgab what I'd really like is to reach companies slightly outside of the core Perl community
12:20 szabgab and get them give some input
12:20 szabgab s/companies/people/
12:20 daxim also, your client doesn't know what he's talking about (the ML thread already said so partially), I hope you gave him a good head scrubbing
12:21 szabgab I think it is important to see what people say - even if they are not right
12:21 szabgab they are convinced somehow
12:27 daxim I see this Ronen guy also falls into this category   m(   FSM help me, he wants compile time method checks in a dynamic language
12:27 daxim and thinks that in-house dev is less costly than taking a CPAN module
12:31 szabgab daxim: I don't know where is the problem really
12:32 szabgab is it in Ronen and the guy at my client?
12:32 szabgab or is the management of Ronen?
12:32 szabgab at another client they too have issues with the dynamic nature of Perl
12:32 daxim if I would need to condense it into one sentence, it would be "lack of knowledge"
12:33 szabgab especially people who come from the Java world
12:33 daxim of course, that's too generic to be of use
12:34 szabgab but I don't havea really good andswer to the issue
12:34 szabgab of course I'd say write unit test to cover your method calls
12:35 kaare Yes http://blogs.perl.org/users/erez_schatz/20​10/11/the-october-that-will-never-be.html shows some of the really bad things about the Perl community
12:35 kaare Or perhaps it's not Perl. Perhaps it's a geek thing.
12:37 kaare Technically I'd like some native (or magic) threads support. Something that just works (tm)
12:38 kaare Perceptionwise we have all these Perl is linenoise-people. I don't think there's a whole lot to do about them.
12:38 kaare They're typically fanboys of some competing language. Even PHP people talk like that!
12:39 daxim I can't hear the word any more
12:40 szabgab kaare: what I am after is finding people who use perl in companies and understand some real issues
12:40 kaare szabgab: Perception _is_ a real issue.
12:40 daxim 99% of the people who want threads actually want the concept of multiprogramming.  threads just happen to be a popular application of MP
12:41 szabgab eg. on the Israel.pm thread there were the two points regarding license  and that some modules are not well maintained that might be worth looking at
12:41 daxim we have too damn many MP modules already on CPAN so that it becomes difficult even for me to recommend something appropriate
12:41 szabgab kaare: right, and that I already know we need to fight
12:41 szabgab and that's one of the central issues of PEG
12:41 szabgab but I'd like to see what other things hurt companies and try to offer some solution for that
12:42 kaare One place I'm working for is getting into Drupal because the mgmt won't invest in upgrading the Perl CMS there
12:42 szabgab why not ?
12:43 kaare Because they (still) think Perl is dying
12:44 kaare That's the main reason I chose to wotk for another company, where I spend most of my time.
12:44 kaare Now I can do Catalyst, Mojo, Plack, PostgreSQL, ... :-)
12:45 szabgab can you get me in touch with mgmn in both companies?
12:45 zenog szabgab: What hurts most about Perl is: pre-modern, lack of tools (there are many good ones, but there could be more!), the usability of the CPAN client (should be as neat as aptitude), and a buggy and incomplete Padre ;-)
12:45 szabgab zenog: now you hurt me personally
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12:46 zenog szabgab: Why, did you write the CPAN client?
12:46 zenog szabgab: :-P
12:46 zenog szabgab: Just kidding ;-)
12:46 waxhead_droid howdy
12:46 kaare Padre could be a winner for Perl. But nobody seems to have the time to perfect it.
12:46 kaare zenog: cpanm is great.
12:47 zenog kaare: Then it should be the default.
12:47 kaare It is for me ;-)
12:48 szabgab hey, a droid !
12:48 szabgab kaare: I need some tuits
12:48 szabgab a lot of them actually
12:49 zenog szabgab: So all the stuff I mentioned are ecosystem issues.
12:49 kaare I use cpanplus to see what modules are outdated.  And sometimes the z option
12:49 szabgab but it won't be the default for the hard core Perl developers
12:49 szabgab for most of them anyway
12:49 szabgab zenog: the buggy padre you mean
12:49 szabgab ?
12:50 waxhead_droid yeah using an irc client on a HTC desire
12:50 zenog szabgab: No, generally: old code+installations out there, lack of tools, the package manager: no language issues, but ecosystem
12:51 waxhead_droid shall we roll out the next release this weekend?
12:51 kaare There are bugs in all programs. I think zenog is hinting that Padre should be more of a RAD tool, The Perl Way, than an editor
12:52 szabgab can someone explain me why "October" is in the title?
12:52 zenog szabgab: which title?
12:53 szabgab the blog kaare linked to
12:54 szabgab personally I had really little time lately to deal with Padre
12:54 szabgab even though there are tons of things I'dlike to do
12:54 kaare szabgab: Not sure I want to let you ask them (the managers) why they are living in the past :-)
12:55 szabgab kaare: no, I'd like to ask them if the Perl Ecosystem Group could help them save their investment in Perl ?
12:55 szabgab or maybe just point them to PEG
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12:55 kaare How would you do that?
12:55 szabgab how would I do what?
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12:56 kaare How would PEG help save their investment?
12:56 szabgab first of all I need to understand - from them - what hurts them in the Perl world?
12:56 kaare droids seem to have a hard time keeping a connection alive :-)
12:57 waxhead_droid not the droids fault. the human using it
12:58 waxhead_droid time for sleep. nite
12:58 szabgab nite droid
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12:59 szabgab companies (or managers) that think perl has a dying issue need to be asked what aspect do they see it dying?
13:01 kaare szabgab: They never said it though. I just can't see any other reason for their (lack of) actions.
13:03 szabgab I'd like to do a little survey asking companies - managers at companies - the question I asked on those two mailing lists
13:04 szabgab I think I'll write it down and send it to a couple of people asking them to forward it to managers
13:04 szabgab do you think they would answer?
13:06 kaare szabgab: Not sure. I think it depends a lot on what idea they get from the letter.
13:09 kaare I think I have to explain more in detail what I see as a problem there.
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13:38 azawawi hi
13:41 azawawi Sewi: no real progress yet... started experimenting with ExtUtils::CBuilder
13:41 azawawi Sewi: in stc that is
13:41 azawawi Sewi: the problem is that I have too much to fix in my Padre-TODO list :)
13:44 * azawawi nap &
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16:00 Hyppolit svn: r13256 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13256
16:00 Hyppolit Skip .svn directories at find in files
16:00 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Task/
16:08 Hyppolit #1063: [PerlTidy plugin] 0.15 lacks translation sources (.po) (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1063#comment:2 ]
16:12 zenog Sewi++
16:12 zenog &
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18:05 kthakore :(
18:05 kthakore hi Sewi
18:06 kthakore Sewi: all the #sdl devs are away/busy or w/e waaaaaah
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18:12 Sewi kthakore: So go on work on Padre :-)
18:13 kthakore Sewi: but but I wanna make game
18:13 kthakore I release SDLx-Widget 0.04 though
18:13 kthakore :D
18:13 kthakore new textbox widget for SDL
18:13 kthakore :D
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20:03 El_Che ok, new shell :)
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