Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2011-02-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 asarch left #padre
00:07 Alias joined #padre
00:16 asarch joined #padre
00:17 Alias hi folks
00:19 * garu waves
01:00 Alias FYI, I'm changing the way we intuit project roots
01:00 Alias It will look for version control checkout clues as well as the normal Build.PL, Makefile.PL etc
01:00 Alias .svn directories, .git, .hg etc etc
01:47 Hyppolit svn: r13689 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13689
01:47 Hyppolit - Intuit project root from version control checkout directories and
01:47 Hyppolit classify them as an ordinary vanilla Padre::Project, before we give up
01:47 Hyppolit and treat something as a Null projects (ADAMK)
01:47 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
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04:36 Hyppolit svn: r13690 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13690
04:36 Hyppolit Removed the unneeded is_project key, as if ( $self->project ) { ... } works as expected
04:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
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05:00 Alias whoa
05:01 Alias I just found a huge performance bug
05:09 Hyppolit svn: r13691 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13691
05:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
05:09 Alias I think it's time to add a proper project manager
05:09 Alias There's way too much project-related code just kind of scattered around
05:15 asarch left #padre
05:23 itcharlie Hi
05:25 Alias hi
05:26 itcharlie what is the timezone for you Alias?
05:26 itcharlie mines is New York EST
05:26 Alias Australia/Sydney
05:26 itcharlie I barely see anyone one during the time I connect
05:27 Alias Our developer base is fairly euro-heavy
05:27 Alias Well, and arabic
05:27 Alias Jordan through to England is the bulk of them
05:27 Alias A couple of Aussies and the occasional Brazillian
05:27 itcharlie Nice
05:29 itcharlie I was looking for a project to contribute to
05:29 itcharlie and I figure Padre would be nice
05:29 Alias You're a Perl hacker?
05:29 itcharlie Yes
05:29 Alias Neato, the more the merrier
05:30 itcharlie :D
05:30 itcharlie Not a mature Perl hacker but I can get around
05:30 Alias Padre was conceived on the concept that if you made an IDE for Perl in Perl, every user would be a potential contributor
05:30 Alias Similar to Emacs for Lisp hackers or Eclipse for Java hackers
05:31 Alias You get a great feedback loop that eventually makes the best IDE for that language ever
05:31 itcharlie I ussually use Vim
05:31 Alias Note: "eventually" :)
05:31 itcharlie :D
05:32 itcharlie well I am ussually in a Linux box but now I have windows and Padre seems like the best Perl IDE for windows
05:32 Alias By some margin
05:32 Alias Best Perl IDE full stop if you ask me :)
05:33 Alias But vim/emacs can be customised by the user to an extent that you often don't do on Windows
05:33 Alias So we aren't trying to steal lots of users from vim and emacs
05:35 itcharlie s/steal/borrow/
05:35 itcharlie ok one thing I did notice in the Padre website is that the information is kinda scattered
05:40 itcharlie What are the next steps for acessing Trac ticketing System
05:40 itcharlie accessing*
05:46 itcharlie Sleep is getting the best out of me. Have a good one.
05:46 itcharlie I will be in tomorrow
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06:29 Hyppolit svn: r13692 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13692
06:29 Hyppolit Upgraded the badcode.t inefficient regex check to use PPI instead of raw string, making it immune to the presence of bad regex characters in POD.
06:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/xt/
06:32 Alias left #padre
06:32 szabgab gm in ME
06:33 Sewi gm szabgab
06:37 kaare joined #padre
06:40 szabgab alias escaped by the time I could comment on his changes so now they go in e-mail
06:42 szabgab Sewi: any idea how could I get some of the current Padre developer to help describing the usage of each configuration item?
06:42 szabgab slowly, 1-2 at a time
06:44 Sewi szabgab: no :)
06:44 Sewi add a test which fails if a config item is not described.
06:44 kaare left #padre
06:44 Sewi Usually failing tests are good to force people to fix (do) something :)
06:45 szabgab right now there is only a single config option described and there are some 250 not described
06:47 Sewi Add a test. Someone will at least start fixing it before the next release.
06:47 kaare joined #padre
06:47 Sewi Wax may still ignore these failures when preparing the next releast but we have a failing trunk and people don't like this :)
06:49 szabgab for now I added a test checking if every config option is presented in the preferences window bud made them skip if they are not
06:49 szabgab which is not really clever if but would allow us to see which options still need to have  proper way to show them
06:50 Sewi Some may never appear there - and this is ok, I think.
06:51 szabgab yes I agree
06:51 szabgab I should add a comment to the test
06:51 Sewi But we could either add a whitelist for the options which must be visible or a blacklist for options which may be hidden
06:52 szabgab waxhead: in t/04-config.t there is a line
06:52 szabgab 12073    waxhead # TODO can someone who knows what *2 + 21 means explain it in a comment please.
06:52 szabgab 12073    waxhead # TODO can someone who knows what *2 + 21 means explain it in a comment please.
06:52 szabgab that is computing the test
06:54 Hyppolit svn: r13693 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13693
06:54 Hyppolit further clarify the meaning of the constant
06:54 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
06:55 szabgab waxhead: also see r13693
06:55 Hyppolit Changeset #13693 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13693
06:55 Sewi Ok, I'm gone now, need to go to the doctor, maybe we get a name for Beatric's illness...
06:59 szabgab oh
07:00 Sewi left #padre
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07:04 Hyppolit svn: r13694 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13694
07:04 Hyppolit Removing unused _xy_on_screen method
07:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
07:05 Alias I'm concerned about the single instance server
07:05 Alias It seems to be breaking, and it didn't used to
07:07 Sewi left #padre
07:13 szabgab Alias: I notiecd it starting a few days ago
07:14 szabgab that every time I launch padre I get the warning on th command line regarding the server
07:14 szabgab on windows
07:14 Alias ya
07:15 Alias I think it started when I tried to do unix support for single server
07:16 Hyppolit svn: r13695 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13695
07:16 Hyppolit detailed description of a test
07:16 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
07:17 Alias I think I can fix this temporarily
07:25 Hyppolit #1108: Rectangular editing / column mode / vertical selection / box selection (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1108 ]
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07:51 Hyppolit svn: r13696 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13696
07:51 Hyppolit Fix the single instance server on Windows.
07:51 Hyppolit The unix version probably still doesn't work, but at least it's theoretically implemented
07:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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08:40 szabgab marcela: hi, long time have not seen you talking here!
08:47 marcela szabgab: hello
08:47 marcela szabgab: and today I have question ;-)
08:47 marcela szabgab: do you have any list of current Perl projects?
08:48 marcela szabgab: I was on local conference and people keep asking me about new projects in Perl or new web-pages in Perl...
08:51 Alias Define new?
08:51 Alias :)
08:52 szabgab marcela: which conference did you attend?
08:53 Alias sigh
08:53 Alias ok, we DEFINITELY need a proper ProjectManager
08:53 szabgab Alias: as you could see from my recent messages and activity I'd like to start some discussion on what new features to add to padre
08:53 szabgab and what not
08:53 Alias ya
08:53 Alias I saw
08:53 Alias For the record, I'm not adding features :)
08:53 szabgab personally I have a few items and I'd like to have some kind of discussion around them
08:53 Alias I'm just fixing ones that don't work as well as they should :)
08:54 szabgab for example the "show filename on status bar"
08:54 Alias We already do that don't we?
08:54 szabgab or changing the goto window to have a "jump to beginning of sub"  and "jum to end of sub"
08:55 szabgab sorry "show subname on status bar"
08:55 szabgab we already have the filename, yes
08:55 Hyppolit svn: r13697 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13697
08:55 Hyppolit Tiny nigglies
08:55 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
08:55 szabgab so after the filename there would be a space and the name of the current sub
08:55 * Alias isn't particularly enthused
08:56 Alias I barely look at the status bar as it is
08:56 szabgab marcela: I think you could look around the Dancer project
08:56 szabgab on #dancer
08:56 szabgab or the mojolicious project
08:56 Alias What if, instead, we bolded the "current subroutine" in the function list tool
08:57 szabgab Alias:  so this is exactly my point, I'd like to have these discussions
08:57 Hyppolit svn: r13698 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13698
08:57 Hyppolit Variable rename to something more concise
08:57 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
08:57 szabgab I personally hardly use the function list and I do look at the status bar :)
08:57 szabgab sometimes
08:58 Hyppolit svn: r13699 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13699
08:58 Hyppolit Added warning against more dependencies
08:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
08:59 Hyppolit svn: r13700 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13700
08:59 Hyppolit Tidying
08:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/
08:59 Hyppolit svn: r13701 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13701
08:59 Hyppolit More tidyish stuff
08:59 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/t/
09:00 marcela szabgab: yes, I mentioned that
09:01 marcela szabgab: but they wanted know if they are use in web-development. Do we have some list of web-pages in Dancer?
09:01 marcela szabgab: my colleagues love python and it's quite hard to persuade them that Perl is live ;-)
09:02 szabgab Novell is using it :)
09:02 marcela ha, great example ;-)
09:02 marcela I should know it
09:02 szabgab my network is fluctuating so I get disconnected but I am looking for the links for yoy
09:02 szabgab you
09:02 marcela thanks
09:03 szabgab on the dancfloor you can get some projects: http://perldancer.org/dancefloor
09:03 marcela szabgab: the conference was https://fedoraproject.org/w​iki/DeveloperConference2011
09:03 szabgab and you know one of my key objetives with the Perl Ecosystem Group is to get companies that are using Perl to be connected to the community
09:04 marcela that would be great to have for presentation
09:04 szabgab so we try to make sure we have representatives at various conferences
09:04 szabgab and we try to supply promotional materials
09:04 marcela szabgab: I was thinking about that and try to show interesting projets in Perl from last year or so
09:04 szabgab http://perldancer.org/dancefloor
09:05 szabgab we were at FOSDEM last week: http://perl-ecosystem.org/events/fosdem_2011
09:05 szabgab marcela: btw, do you know German?
09:05 szabgab if I recall you are located in Bratislave, right?
09:05 marcela szabgab: I understand but technical German is hard
09:06 marcela Brno
09:06 szabgab close :)
09:06 marcela yes
09:06 szabgab it is more chatting with people at tech conferences
09:06 marcela FOSDEM looked awesome, I should go
09:06 szabgab I am looking for people who would want to go to the Grazer LinuxTag and setup a booth
09:07 szabgab a Perl booth
09:07 szabgab do you attend the Perl Mongers ?
09:08 szabgab http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/novell-anoin​ts-baracus-open-source-cloud-management-tool/7787
09:09 marcela Gratz in Austria? you'll need German/Austria man there
09:09 szabgab there is someone already who might go, but maybe you also want to join them
09:10 szabgab maybe you can even get RedHat to pay your trip?
09:10 El_Che lo
09:11 El_Che has someone more explicit info on how the plugins broke 'inderectly' by adams changes? I am trying to figure out if the breakage of perl::tidy is caused by this changes
09:11 El_Che the plugin looks allright
09:11 marcela probably, but I definitely don't want to go to Gratz
09:12 El_Che Alias: you there?
09:12 Alias ya
09:13 szabgab marcela: so no Graz :)
09:13 Alias Is the plugin broken or just reporting "incompatible"
09:13 szabgab you can help by joinging the "Perl events group"
09:14 szabgab or by joining the mailing list of PEG
09:14 El_Che well, it is enabled by the plugin manager but has no version there (??)
09:14 El_Che as all the other plugins
09:14 marcela szabgab:  ok, give me links and I'll join
09:14 El_Che it runs, but when you tidy the document you get stacktrace
09:14 kanishka left #padre
09:15 waxhead evening...
09:15 waxhead now that I have DNS working again
09:15 El_Che I see sewi and azawawi talked about the porblem in January... reading the irc log now
09:16 szabgab marcela: http://perl-ecosystem.org/mailing_lists
09:16 marcela szabgab: thanks
09:16 szabgab and https://www.socialtext.net/perl5/index.cgi?events
09:16 fenderson hey
09:17 szabgab hi fenderson
09:17 szabgab how is the local::lib installation and the padre trunk?
09:18 fenderson hi szabgab
09:19 danlucraft joined #padre
09:19 fenderson can anyone tell me what is bashrs?
09:21 szabgab are you looking for bashrc ?
09:21 fenderson yea
09:21 szabgab ~/.bashrc to be more specific?
09:21 fenderson yea. sry i mixed it up
09:22 szabgab have you searched for it ?
09:22 szabgab http://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+is+bashrc
09:22 fenderson yea i searched for the bashrc now and i found
09:23 fenderson thanks
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09:34 waxhead when do we want to do the next release?
09:39 El_Che ok, I start to understand the perl::tidy crashes
09:40 szabgab waxhead: if you are planning to do it in a release branch as we discussed then IMHO you could start right now
09:40 zenog joined #padre
09:40 szabgab it will take some time to hammer out that process
09:41 szabgab marcela: I have a different question, do you have may CPAN modules in Fedora where you need some change implemented but the author of the CPAN module is not responsive?
09:42 zenog Does anyone know why the Find dialog is now a modal window?
09:43 El_Che haha! found the offending code on the perl::tidy plugin
09:43 zenog It does not really make sense to not allow access to the text ...
09:43 zenog El_Che: Please tell what it is, may be interesting for the other plug-ins as well.
09:44 El_Che I looks pretty plugin specific:
09:44 El_Che there is a test that looks for a perltidyrc file
09:45 El_Che then it provides a $document->project->config->config_perltidy object to the real Perl::Tidy module
09:45 El_Che whell, Perl::Tidy expect a reference
09:45 El_Che no a Wx::CommandEvent
09:45 El_Che not
09:45 szabgab El_Che: maybe I broke the plugin?
09:46 szabgab just suggesting :)
09:46 El_Che so, commenting out the lines implementing the manual perltidyrc make the plugin work
09:46 El_Che I'll commit it like that so the plugin works as it used to do
09:46 El_Che and have a look how the new perltidyrc enhancement work
09:46 El_Che ok?
09:46 Hyppolit ok is the output of Test::Simple
09:48 El_Che does this sound reasonable? this way It's clear where the bug is if I am not able to add the functionality quickly
09:48 El_Che (instead of searching at random if someone else takes over)
09:49 szabgab El_Che: and please add a comment about the issue to the commented out code
09:49 marcela szabgab: sometimes it happened. Do you want track unresponsive maintainers and orphaned CPAN modules?
09:49 szabgab so the next person won't have to research
09:49 El_Che szabgab: yes doing that
09:49 szabgab marcela: I thought we could start maintaining a list
09:49 szabgab marcela: and see where does it go from there
09:50 marcela szabgab: okay
09:50 szabgab marcela: I am just proposing the same to the Debian Perl maintainers
09:50 szabgab marcela: do you have an account on http://www.socialtext.net/ ?
09:51 marcela szabgab: no
09:51 * szabgab sending invitation to marcela
09:53 Hyppolit svn: r13702 | claudio++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13702
09:53 Hyppolit Fix 100M crash. Temporary disabling custom perltidyrc support
09:53 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlTidy/lib/Padre/Plugin/
09:53 El_Che fuck
09:53 El_Che I meant 100%
09:54 El_Che 100M looks overly dramatic :)
09:54 szabgab :)
09:58 zenog hm. crash with "GLib-GObject:ERROR:/build/buildd/glib2.0-​2.24.1/gobject/gsignal.c:711:emission_pop: code should not be reached"
10:02 zenog I also get these warnings on exit: "Use of uninitialized value within %variable in substitution iterator at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1/Padre/Wx/Main.pm line 1381."
10:03 Hyppolit svn: r13703 | claudio++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13703
10:03 Hyppolit Version added to the plugin in accorddance to the Plugin Manager API
10:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-PerlTidy/
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10:12 pece left #padre
10:12 Hyppolit #1109: PPI Lexer crash when loading file (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1109 ]
10:14 szabgab marcela: have you got the invitation?
10:14 marcela szabgab: yes, I'm logged in
10:14 szabgab this is the first time I am trying to do and I'd like to make sure it works
10:14 szabgab good
10:15 szabgab I'll create a page for the lost-and-found modules
10:15 szabgab or maybe there is one already?
10:15 marcela I'll look.
10:17 marcela nothing...
10:26 szabgab marcela:any idea what should be the name of this page?
10:26 szabgab Alias: maybe you have an idea?
10:27 Hyppolit #1110: Find dialog should not be a modal window (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1110 ]
10:27 szabgab for a name of a wiki page to list modules that are in need of maintenance and where the author is not responsive
10:28 szabgab I am not sure calling it "modules to take over" would be a good name as some people might get offended
10:28 Alias I was kind of working on something like that
10:28 Alias As a metric though
10:28 marcela they will be offended even with Orphaned packages or Unresponsive maintainer
10:29 Alias I find that most things managed by humans generally die
10:30 marcela probably in this list could be packages, which can't be built with perl5.12
10:30 marcela if it's possible to take this data from cpantesters somehow
10:30 Alias Start with CPANDB
10:30 Alias Invent a metric
10:30 Alias Calculate it
10:30 Alias List the top 100
10:31 szabgab the downstream packagers already maintain some of this information
10:31 szabgab or they have some indication in their databases
10:32 szabgab if they can export that information or maintain a file themselves that can be fetched
10:32 szabgab and included in the List
10:32 marcela szabgab: we don't have any database of orphaned because of dead upstream
10:32 marcela not sure about other distro
10:32 szabgab marcela: so how would you decide which package you list on the wiki page?
10:33 marcela szabgab: probably adding during fixing bugs, because developer of package doesn't fix them
10:33 marcela cpandb looks better to me
10:35 szabgab Alias: how would she add the names of the modules to CPANDB?
10:35 szabgab and how would she remove them?
10:36 Alias You don't
10:36 Hyppolit #1111: edit color scheme (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1111 ]
10:36 Alias You add them by having the modules meet your criteria for "dead"
10:36 Alias You remove them by having some real world maintainer event that reduces it's metric
10:37 Hyppolit svn: r13704 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13704
10:37 Hyppolit update German translation
10:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
10:42 szabgab they need to indicae it somewhere e.g. a flag in their own bug tracking system - that you would use and
10:42 szabgab you would fetch and extract the data from
10:45 Alias Why does it need to be explicit
10:45 Alias What do you consider a dead module to be?
10:48 marcela hm so I removed as dead Data::Alias after uncesfull rebuild with 5.12.0 and they are living again
10:48 Hyppolit #1112: Remember manually selected mime-type - "View Document As" (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1112 ]
10:48 marcela so, it would be better looking for packages, which doesn't have new release for few years and then find some other data like number of bug reports
10:49 Alias No releases is easy
10:49 Alias No activity in the bug tracker can be done
10:49 Alias Most also have actual bugs in tracker
10:49 Alias No CPAN Testers PASS result on current/recent versions of Perl
10:49 Alias Can also be done
10:49 szabgab no activity in RT could mean noone uses it
10:50 szabgab so it is not important
10:50 Alias No, no activity on existing bugs
10:50 Alias So if new bugs are accumulating, but no action is ever taken on those reports
10:50 szabgab "packaged by Fedora" or "packaged by Debian" would indicate usage
10:50 Alias Well, it indicates demand
10:50 szabgab or at least some level of , yes, demand
10:50 Alias As does downgraph modules
10:51 marcela I have one which is probably dead SVN::Mirror, could test metric on it
10:51 Alias You know, I hadn't considered it before
10:51 Alias But the existing metric could be boosted
10:51 Alias The Volatility metric for a distribution should probably get an extra boost if it, or it's dependencies, are distro-packaged
10:52 Alias To distinguish between modules that have downstream dependencies which people want in distros, and those with dependants that nobody cares about
10:54 Alias My main problem at the moment is the CPANDB generator breaks
10:54 Alias Duplicate entries
10:54 Alias I haven't had the balls to debug it yet
10:55 Alias It mostly does about 15 minutes of seriously hardcore SQLite operations
10:55 Alias And it has to pull a gig or two of inputs
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11:01 Hyppolit svn: r13705 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13705
11:01 Hyppolit First pass at creating some of the guts of a proper project manager.
11:01 Hyppolit Added the main root and type detection code.
11:01 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
11:01 Alias Note: That code compiles, but isn't being used by anything yet
11:03 Alias I'm just starting to set up the central functionality so we can pull down the code scatterred all over the place
11:03 Alias Now I'm off skating
11:05 Hyppolit svn: r13706 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13706
11:05 Hyppolit [LaTeX plugin] make compatible to Padre 0.81 and later
11:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/lib/Padre/Plugin/
11:07 fenderson where can i find Module::Install ?
11:07 Alias zeno: Just a case of bumping the declared versions?
11:07 Alias fenderson: cpan Module::Install
11:08 Alias You'll probably need the Padre Plugin for Module::Install as well, which is in the main Padre repo
11:08 zenog Alias: yes
11:09 fenderson thanks
11:09 Alias zenog: I would expect for most plugins that will be the case
11:10 Alias I decided a protected system similar to Mozilla but a bit more forgiven was probably best
11:10 Alias I think most of the API changes that get made will still only mean bumping deps
11:11 Alias But it does force people to give the plugins a quick look over and test them once to make sure
11:11 Hyppolit #1113: Padre defaults for students (beginners  in general?) (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1113 ]
11:11 Alias And it shuts down potential bad plugins early, rather than having them crash Padre
11:11 * Alias heads off to skaste
11:11 zenog Does anyone else have problems with XML::Tidy? I cannot install/upgrade it due to its strange version number.
11:11 zenog Alias: Have fun!
11:16 waxhead szabgab, I'm struggling a bit for time tonight, so how about tomorrow I make a start with the branch, I'll document the process... I've done a few branch/merges these days, but have to admit that the nicest way to do it was one windows with the tortise stuff
11:20 szabgab waxhead: sure, schedule it as you feel fit
11:20 szabgab and take a look at tools/pvn
11:21 Hyppolit svn: r13707 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13707
11:21 Hyppolit [XML plugin] repair MANIFEST; bump compatibility to 0.81
11:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-XML/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-XML/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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11:35 zenog hi asarch
11:37 Hyppolit svn: r13708 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13708
11:37 Hyppolit [ShellScript plugin] bump compatibility; use Dist::Zilla
11:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/lib/Padre/Plugin/
11:40 asarch Hi zenog
11:40 asarch :-)
11:54 fenderson how can i run svn co http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/ padre
11:54 fenderson ?
11:55 zenog fenderson: Enter it in a console window.
11:55 zenog Which platform are you on?
11:55 zenog Linux? Mac? Windows?
11:56 fenderson linux
11:57 fenderson i write it in terminal?\
11:57 zenog Yes, in a terminal window.
11:57 zenog "svn co http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/ padre"
11:57 zenog ... should do the job.
12:11 daxim Alias, do you know by now whether your company can sponsor the QA hackathon flight?
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12:24 Hyppolit #1100: Dies when hitting F3 (closed defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1100#comment:3 ]
12:29 El_Che szabgab: did you add the perltidyrc to the perltidy plugin? I see tha action subs (tidy_selection, tidy_document and _tidy take a perltidyrc as a second parameter (the first is the $self/$main object)
12:30 El_Che althou no one calling those subs supplies one
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12:30 szabgab oh yes
12:31 szabgab I added that and there should be a dialog that will call it with that paramter I think
12:31 szabgab so the idea was, IIRC, to allow the user to build a configuration by clicking on the window
12:31 szabgab on the dialog
12:31 szabgab on check boxes and other paramters
12:32 El_Che the dialog only the maximum lenth of lines and space-for-semicolon
12:32 El_Che (has)
12:32 szabgab I think the rest is in a limbo on my netbook
12:32 El_Che is there a way to get that kind of stuff --within the present api- into the general preferences?
12:32 El_Che those types of dialogues are really out of place
12:33 szabgab it should not be in the current preferences
12:33 szabgab at least for now
12:33 szabgab it should remain in the plugin
12:33 szabgab oh you mean to keep it in the plugin but show it within the preferences thing
12:34 El_Che I was thinking something as the left colums of the preference windows, to put there a plugins entry
12:34 szabgab I am not sure that's the right approach
12:34 El_Che szabgab: all ide's do it like that
12:34 szabgab the prefernces are intsallation global
12:34 El_Che it makes sense to have all the preferences in one place
12:35 El_Che I don't know if I explain myself correctly
12:35 szabgab while the perlidy plugin can work on a project level or might even work on a file level
12:35 Sewi yes. Wordpress does it another way: The plugin preferences are spread over 3-4 different places :-(
12:35 Sewi szabgab: We have project dependent preferences.
12:35 Sewi The defaults should go to the preferences dialog while there might be individual preferences for a project, file or even one tidy run
12:36 El_Che szabgab: anyway, plugin bases dialogs are 99% of the time ugly and not intuitive
12:36 szabgab I think I understand you and I agree that the preferences of each plugin should be shown within the preferences window of padre but I wonder if the configuration of perlidy which is kept in a project specific file anyway should be there as well
12:36 El_Che szabgab: that you have to look for them all over the place does no help either
12:36 El_Che we can support a .perltidyrc in the project root
12:37 szabgab Sewi: you might be right there
12:37 Sewi szabgab: For your own projects: Do you use different configs for tidy for each project?
12:37 El_Che [x] Ignore global setting and use the .perltidyrc in the project root
12:37 El_Che something like that?
12:37 Sewi El_Che: Maybe the other way may be better. Default is that project prefs have precedence
12:37 szabgab Sewi: I might hack on a project of someone lse who uses another set of perltidy configs
12:38 El_Che Sewi: OK, then present the option selected, but do not changing the sense of the words
12:38 El_Che if you understand what I mean
12:38 Sewi sure, it might have a individual tidy config, but most of your projects have the same.
12:38 El_Che otherwise you can encounter surprises
12:38 Sewi There is no need to copy the same config file to a dozen projects and copy it again to every project once you change one option.
12:39 Sewi Simply define your global default and projects may override this if they need (maybe even files should be able to override the project settings)
12:40 El_Che anyway to summarize, preferences all over the place within dialogs in different styles is a big no-no UI wise
12:41 El_Che maybe we should thing to a plugin_preference method to the plugin api? does this make sense?
12:42 Sewi Plugin Preferences should be as easy as possible. Maybe a list with { name => 'foo', title => 'bar', default => 1, }.
12:42 szabgab imho the full perltidy config needs to live with the projetc
12:43 szabgab or well, it depends
12:43 szabgab if the projects are within a company then maybe there should be one global
12:43 Sewi szabgab: What about one sizer which may be shown within a preferences dialog or a project / file / run - specific dialog
12:43 szabgab if it is open source then your different projects will be picked up by different people and for that case it is better to have the perldit file go with the project
12:44 szabgab so before we go down that road let me explain what I wanted
12:44 Sewi 100% agree
12:45 szabgab I wanted to have a capability like we have in the Preferences/Apperance
12:45 El_Che szabgab: I understand now what you do. You don't ask for a perltidyrc file, but you create one only containing the "maximum-line-lengh" and space-for-semicolon
12:45 El_Che got it
12:46 szabgab El_Che: for now yes, as I was at the very beginning of it
12:47 El_Che interesting
12:47 El_Che that's pretty neat
12:47 szabgab of course I'd want to let the user load an existing .perltidyrc file
12:48 szabgab and fill the dialog, let the user see how that will show in the file and at some point save the perltidyrc
12:48 szabgab so it would be an editor for perltidyrc files
12:48 szabgab and now lunch &
12:50 El_Che like tidyview
12:57 Sewi Is there anything like tidy for template toolkit files?
13:17 El_Che http://claudio.ulyssis.be/​plugins_in_preferences.jpg
13:17 El_Che I was thinking of that
13:17 El_Che don't worry I haven't comitted :)
13:19 Alias Tidyview should really just be ported directly
13:19 Alias As for project-specific tidy, we really should always pick that up by default
13:19 Alias So we just adapt to the project
13:19 Alias And you force it the opposite direction one project at a time
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13:22 El_Che moving away from the perltidy specifics, wouldn't it be a good idea to a add preferences-panel integration to the plugin api?
13:22 El_Che to get something like the screenshot shown?
13:22 Alias In principle I think it's the right thing
13:23 Alias The part I'm not sure of, is on the integration between plugins and the configuration system itself
13:23 El_Che I see that the conditional loading of the entries is already there (for some of the entries, like the one that refer to external files)
13:23 Alias hrm?
13:24 Alias The problem right now is that the entire configuration definition needs to be complete early, before the plugins are loaded
13:24 Alias You can't add extra configuration properties after startup
13:24 Alias And plugins load after startup
13:24 Alias There's other issues with it too
13:32 El_Che ok, that pretty fundamental
13:33 El_Che we can not rerun the configuration dialog after a plugin is loaded?
13:33 Alias It's not the dialog, it's that the Padre::Config objects themselves would be incomplete
13:34 Alias All the dialog does is take a Padre::Config object, map it to the dialog, and map the dialog back onto the config
13:34 El_Che ic
13:34 El_Che you see a way around that?
13:35 Alias Lazy loading, partial reloading...
13:35 Alias There is one fairly easy way
13:35 Alias Don't integrate into the main configuration subsystem at all
13:35 Alias Hold your own config independantly
13:35 El_Che just a composite dialog?
13:35 Alias ya
13:36 El_Che we'd need a generic solution though, to offer to the plugins
13:36 Alias Ideally yes
13:36 Alias If you look at Mozilla, they do it
13:36 Alias They integrate at the Padre::Config level
13:36 Alias BUT, in Mozilla if you load, unload or reload a plugin, you have to restart completely
13:37 El_Che true
13:37 Alias Which means they can cheat and load the plugins before the config subsystem
13:37 El_Che that sucks
13:37 Alias Plugins do have a few assets to build on
13:38 Alias They have their own private directories
13:38 Alias So if they want to store their own configuration, they have somewhere to put it
13:38 El_Che plugin_directory_share
13:38 Alias right
13:38 Alias So put a configuration file in there, have the plugin supply a Wx::Panel
13:38 El_Che sorry if I ask silly question, just trying to understand how things work
13:38 Alias Which has to support ->save and ->cancel
13:39 Alias plugin_preferences_panel
13:39 Alias Or something
13:43 El_Che now that you are here, Alias, what do you think perltidy is missing before we can integrate in core. Are you ok with a perltidy dependency?
13:43 Alias What's it's CPAN Testers rating like
13:43 Alias If it's at 100% PASS I'm totally fine with most deps
13:44 Alias I just try to minimise dependencies that aren't perfect, and ones that don't buy us very much for their relative weight
13:45 El_Che looks pretty ok to mee
13:45 Alias How many more deps?
13:47 El_Che if I read it correctly 0
13:47 El_Che 100% pass as well
13:47 Alias Well THAT looks wrong
13:47 El_Che http://deps.cpantesters.org/?module=Perl::Tidy
13:47 Alias I see it, I see it
13:48 Alias It SAYS it doesn't use anything
13:48 Alias hrm
13:48 Alias on the inside...
13:48 Alias IO::File
13:48 Alias File::Spec
13:49 Alias Getopt::Long
13:50 Alias Win32.pm
13:50 daxim all core so far.
13:50 Alias or deps of ours anyway
13:50 daxim [13:12] <daxim> Alias, do you know by now whether your company can sponsor the QA hackathon flight?
13:51 Alias HTML::Entities
13:51 Alias daxim: I don't, but I'll chase it tomorrow
13:51 daxim alright
13:51 Alias daxim: What is the likelyhood booking can do it if they won't
13:51 szabgab deps has an issue
13:51 Alias I know I'm rather the most expensive person on the list
13:51 szabgab for perlcritic it says: http://deps.cpantesters.org/?m​odule=Perl::Critic;perl=latest
13:51 szabgab 0 chance
13:51 Alias Pod::HTML if we wan't HTML
13:52 szabgab beacus XSLoader 100% fails (9 out of 9)
13:52 Alias Someone should probably fix that
13:52 szabgab but on http://search.cpan.org/dist/XSLoader/ we see 979 passes and 77 fails
13:52 daxim I personally want PITA so I'm raising funds from vienna.pm, if all goes well, your travel cost is covered
13:52 Alias I'm THIS close to finishing it
13:52 Alias Been hacking on it on and off the last year
13:52 szabgab that was a big THIS
13:52 Alias I think with some dedicated time I can have the main loop running
13:53 Alias daxim: I'll be buying some extended life batteries for the flights and airports too
13:54 Alias I missed last year, so I think I can get a fair whack of stuff done
13:54 Alias There's less waiting for other people to get things done
13:55 Alias File::Find
13:55 Alias oh wait, that's in comments
13:56 Alias ok, looks good to me
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14:04 szabgab Alias: do you usually by your flight tickets on-line?
14:04 szabgab if yes, which site?
14:04 Alias Usually directly from whichever airline is most convenient for that trip
14:05 Alias I've found in the past that when things go wrong, it absolutely helps to not to have to go through middlemen
14:05 szabgab ic
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14:05 Alias Lots of airlines won't talk to you if you came through $travelagent or $discountwebsite
14:05 Alias If you buy direct from them, they take direct responsibility for fixing your problem
14:06 Alias Only exception was my round the world tickets
14:06 Alias Which I got from oneworld
14:06 Alias The alliance thingy
14:06 szabgab I guess an alience would also take care of you
14:06 Alias Which rocked, because it was fully paid and none of the american airlines were permitted to charge me extra for luggage etc
14:06 Alias Unlike all their own passengers :)
14:07 Alias The alliance was totally fine too
14:07 Alias Because the airlines themselves are part of it
14:07 Alias And can all change each other's flights
14:07 Alias So when Air France accidentally cancelled the last 8 legs of my ticket all in one go, they could fix all of them
14:08 Alias Only other exception is sometimes I'll let a travel agent do it if the trip is 4-6 legs and I'm too busy to plan it
14:09 Alias Mostly for things like Europe and back, Lufthansa or Singapore or Emirates are all pretty good
14:09 Alias I mostly try to shop on the basis of who has the least plane changes :)
14:10 Alias And this time if I can get a flight through them, I want to stop for a day and go climb the Burj Dubai or whatever it's called now
14:10 Alias That building is pure engineer porn
14:10 Alias My dad and cousin are civil engineers and will be so jealous :)
14:13 szabgab most of these web site are really bad
14:13 szabgab or I cant use them
14:13 szabgab eg on lufthansa I don't see the prices until I picked the fl;ight
14:13 Alias Sometimes it's worth using one of the booking.com type things to do price comparison
14:14 Alias Then once you see interesting flight/airline, then switch back to their site
14:14 Alias That said, maybe I should use booking.com for the trip :)
14:14 szabgab they offer flights only within us
14:14 szabgab US
14:14 Alias Oh they just do hotels
14:14 szabgab priceline.com is the same in the USA but only do flights inside
14:15 daxim I use price comparison engines like veturo.com or idealo.at and once I have a good offer, then book the flight directly to cut out middleman
14:15 Alias yup
14:16 Alias Although I find the ability to change flights directly with the airline is more important than the price issue
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15:01 mad_dud hi guys. do I need gtk to run padre on kubuntu?
15:01 Sewi hi mad_dud
15:02 Sewi Padre is using WxWidgets and I think they're GTK-based on *ix.
15:03 szabgab mad_dud: I think so, due to what Sewi said
15:04 zenog mad_dud: Most likely you'll have gtk installed anyway, even if you mainly use KDE.
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15:04 Sewi mad_dud: You could download the standalone package and just try it.
15:04 mad_dud uh. ok. also is it possible to have 2 files open next to eachother?
15:04 Sewi It's all in one directory and could easily remove everything if it doesn't work.
15:05 mad_dud sewi. great idea.
15:05 Sewi mad_dud: We support many tabs with one file per tab, but there is (currently) no way to show two tabs at the same time (but this is planned).
15:06 mad_dud sewi. thanks.
15:07 Sewi download?
15:07 Hyppolit download is http://padre.perlide.org/download.html
15:07 Sewi The standalone is not up-to-date, but worth a try. szabgab, please correct me if I'm wrong :)
15:11 zenog Sewi, szabgab: In particular, if it is not worth a try it should not be prominently on the download page ;-)
15:11 szabgab mad_dud: which version of kubuntu do you have?
15:12 Sewi zenog: I thought about the "up-to-date", it IS worth a try :)
15:12 mad_dud szabgab 1010
15:14 El_Che lo
15:15 szabgab mad_dud: then you can start by      sudo aptitude install padre
15:16 mad_dud doing it right now on virtual machine
15:16 szabgab that's the fastest but of coures it is an old vesion of Padre
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15:16 fenderson if i write that on terminal svn co http://svn.perlide.org/padre/trunk/ padre i'll get a copy from a repository.
15:16 fenderson ?
15:17 Sewi Yes, but you should add a "Padre/" at the end to get only Padre.
15:17 Sewi The full repository is very big.
15:17 fenderson so i wont get all of it
15:18 Hyppolit svn: r13709 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13709
15:18 Hyppolit [ShellScript plugin] add icon
15:18 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/share/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ShellScript/share/icons/
15:18 fenderson Hyppolit: i didnt get the last part
15:19 fenderson its a path for an icon?
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15:19 szabgab fenderson: Hyppolit is a bot
15:19 zenog fenderson: Oh, this is just a notification about a commit to the repository. You can safely ignore it.
15:20 zenog fenderson: I have just added an icon to a plug-in so that it looks nice in the plug-in manager.
15:21 Hyppolit svn: r13710 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13710
15:21 Hyppolit [LaTeX plugin] add icon
15:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/share/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-LaTeX/share/icons/
15:21 szabgab fyi I am trying to get fenderson to learn a bit abut padre and help in the development a bit
15:21 szabgab but he will need a lot of help as apparently he does not know his way around the Linux shell
15:22 szabgab nor does he know svn
15:23 mad_dud wpw. padre looks very nice.
15:23 mad_dud wow*
15:23 szabgab we agreed that I'll give him "tasks" and he will try to learn what he needs around those things and ask here in the channel when he does not know something
15:23 Sewi szabgab: No problem, he's welcome. You know, noone here knows Padre, the Linux shell or svn, we just hide that more or less good :)
15:23 szabgab Sewi: I know :)
15:23 mad_dud but you must implement split-screen editor thing.
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15:23 fenderson thanks a lot :)
15:23 szabgab mad_dud: we actually had that around version 0.10
15:23 Sewi mad_dud: Do you want to do it? :)
15:24 szabgab but someone broke it and noone noticed till a long after
15:24 mad_dud Sewi: tempting
15:24 mad_dud Szab: what happened?
15:24 szabgab but I can point you at the direction and you might be able to fix it soon
15:24 szabgab I don't really know as I noticed it too late and did not have the tuits to actually check it
15:25 szabgab though as a second thought we probably did not have proper split screen what we had was the ability to have the same file opened twice with one editing buffer
15:25 Hyppolit svn: r13711 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13711
15:25 Hyppolit [SpellCheck plugin] remove unnecessary code
15:25 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/lib/Padre/Plugin/
15:25 Sewi szabgab: We really had that? cool!
15:26 Hyppolit svn: r13712 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13712
15:26 Hyppolit [SpellCheck plugin] tidy
15:26 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck​/lib/Padre/Plugin/SpellCheck/
15:26 szabgab it was a lot of headache to get it working but it worked as scintilla has support for that
15:26 szabgab fenderson: so your next task will be to run padre from trunk
15:26 Sewi Visual Basic allows you to pull a line "down" from the top of the editor window to split the file-window (tab) into pieces
15:27 zenog fenderson: If you have questions concerning Linux/Unix shells, just ask; then we can learn together ;-)
15:27 szabgab fenderson: which means cd into padre/Padre
15:27 szabgab and run     perl dev there
15:28 szabgab $perl dev
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15:32 fenderson zenog: thanks it'll be a blast
15:32 fenderson szabgab: run perl dev?
15:35 szabgab fenderson: please read http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki​/Howto#SetupDevelopmentEnvironment and if something is not clear ask
15:41 fenderson ok thanks
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16:44 zenog Hey Padre people, please have a look at the design prototypes that Amit has sent to the mailing list. So far, only Alias and me have answered, and it would be nice to have some more community feedback ...
16:52 Hyppolit #334: open selection misnamed (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/334#comment:2 ]
16:53 Hyppolit #151: Allow the selection of a snippet with keyboard only (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/151#comment:1 ]
17:04 Hyppolit #1114: Open Selection: create non-existing files (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1114 ]
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17:39 zenog hi MrZ, hi ispy_
17:39 ispy_ Hey what's up man!
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17:43 markd Hello. Mark Dootson. Can I have a trac login / commit?
17:46 MrZ Hello... thought I was alone
17:47 zenog Hi Mark. Yes of course.
17:47 zenog One moment please.
17:48 zenog http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
17:49 zenog So, everybody here who does not have a Trac accound yet, please register now ...
17:49 zenog And tell me when you are done, so that I can close the registration again.
17:49 zenog Sorry for the complicated procedure, we had spam problems in the past, and have not found a very good solution yet ...
17:50 markd Thanks, I'm done
17:51 zenog markd: Good.
17:51 zenog Anyone else who is currently registering or wants to do it?
17:52 zenog Otherwise I'll close registration in a few minutes.
17:52 zenog If someone else wants a Trac account, they can always ask us here on the channel to open Trac registration for a while ...
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17:58 zenog Hi toi, do you already have a Trac account? You want one?
18:00 toi zenog, don't have any, but for the moment I'm only following padre from a distance.
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18:01 toi zenog, Thanks for asking!
18:01 zenog toi: OK. In case you want to submit bug reports/tickets, just say so.
18:01 toi zenog, no worries. Thanks for the effort to build a good perl editor!
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18:13 szabgab markd: welcome aboard
18:15 zenog szabgab: Do you know how to give out commit permissions?
18:24 szabgab sure
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18:25 szabgab it is a file in SVN but only some people have access to it
18:25 szabgab commit?
18:27 szabgab Hyppolit: commit is svn commit bit is controlled by the file in http://svn.perlide.org/pad​re/subversion/padre-access
18:27 Hyppolit commit was unknown
18:27 Hyppolit commit is now svn commit bit is controlled by the file in http://svn.perlide.org/pad​re/subversion/padre-access
18:28 Hyppolit svn: r13713 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13713
18:28 Hyppolit give commit bit to Mark Dootson
18:28 Hyppolit subversion/
18:29 markd szabgab: thanks.
18:31 markd I must find a decent irc client. Anything Perlish about?
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18:37 El_Che a wx expert into the mix
18:37 El_Che good news
18:38 zenog markd: I use irssi
18:38 zenog markd: supports Perl scripting (but I don't use it ;-)
18:38 El_Che you can write nice stuff
18:39 zenog http://scripts.irssi.org/
18:40 zenog &
18:41 El_Che thx for the reminder for the reminder about the logos
18:42 El_Che bbl
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18:54 wallasey Hi, its markd again - discovered the irc client I installed last time I was here.
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20:16 szabgab wallasey: you are confusing us :)
20:20 wallasey szabgab: not as much as I confuse myself. I must use irc and the interweb in general more often
20:22 El_Che wallasey:
20:22 El_Che oops
20:23 El_Che wallasey: do you see a way to easily inverse dialog buttons in wx like in gtk-style?
20:23 El_Che OK - Cancel  -> Close - Save ?
20:23 El_Che that the thing that I find so-so about wx
20:32 El_Che oh crap, I just fraighten our Wx-guy away :)
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20:37 wallasey El_Che: not sure what you mean exactly. Is there a common example I can look at (some app or dialog showing what you mean?)
20:37 wallasey El_Che : oops - just read line 2
20:41 El_Che http://home.scarlet.be/var/tmp/gnomebuttons.jpg
20:41 El_Che (just in case)
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20:49 wallasey El_Che: no. you need a custom dialog. I checked wxWidgets source and nothing extra available that we're missing in Wx
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20:51 El_Che too bad, it is one of the few things that give wx away as non-native
20:52 El_Che not complaining, it was the right option for a os-independent program
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22:10 Alias El_Che: There are some things that let Wx adapt to use the right order
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22:10 Alias There's a standard Yes/No Ok/Cancel type thing
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22:23 El_Che Alias: with slowing everything down like if linux do this else do that?
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22:37 El_Che going to bed
22:37 El_Che bye
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23:34 wallasey I was looking around for something that already had a button with wxID_SAVE_AS - but I can't find one. I'm not familiar with using gtk directly -
23:36 wallasey but on Ubuntu, is the different colouring of one button application specific or is that its stock appearance?
23:38 wallasey My thought was it would be worth seeing how a dialog with buttons with stock I'ds looks -
23:39 wallasey and then decide if it would be worth generating a custom mesage dialog for Padre
23:39 Alias_ I'd be fine with implementing a custom Sizer box
23:39 Alias_ That knew all the common dialog patterns and could order them appropriately on different platforms
23:40 Alias_ As I mentioned, Wx core has one already for a few cases, but we can always add more
23:41 wallasey Yep - but the capability in question is can we get the button of our choice coloured differently
23:41 wallasey I've noticed the behaviour on Mac looks a lot like Ubuntu
23:42 wallasey but - if it came down to a need to write XS code - there's better places to spend time I would think
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23:57 Alias_ ah

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