Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2011-02-15

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Time Nick Message
00:02 bowtie joined #padre
00:04 bowtie should i expect %p to work for projects?
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04:27 itcharlie Hi
04:29 ajmrch is now known as asarch
04:31 * Alias_ debates moving the "Reload current plugin" out of core and into the developer plugin
04:31 Alias_ itcharlie: hi
04:36 itcharlie Alias_:  I have a dev repo with trunk in my windows 7 machine. I know I can load all the plugins available by running perl dev -a. How does one install a plugin in production padre?
04:37 itcharlie * my production version of padre
04:39 itcharlie actually let me tell you what is currently happening for my production version of Padre
04:41 itcharlie When I go to the Tools->Module Tools -> Install Cpan Module   Padre will close and nothing happens
04:42 Alias_ Are you installing the dev trunk as your local production version as well?
04:43 Alias_ (Which is what I usually do)
04:43 Alias_ If so, you need to go into the plugin's root in the checkout and Makefile.PL; dmake; dmake test; dmake install it from there
04:44 szabgab itcharlie: that menu is knonw to be borked, sorry
04:45 itcharlie this is fine I am just Identifying them ( not sure if it was broken before )
04:45 Alias_ Don't try to install with the Padre cpan client
04:45 Alias_ It sucks
04:45 Alias_ Command line "cpan Module::Name" is better
04:46 itcharlie I installing Padre from cpan didn't work for me
04:46 itcharlie basically what I did was the strawberry plus padre install
04:47 itcharlie and then perl -MCPAN -e "CPAN->upgrade(/^Padre/)"
04:47 itcharlie This seems to work
04:47 Alias_ Wow, shitloads of plugins use Padre::Util::get_project_dir
04:47 Alias_ I think I'm about to break most of them
04:48 Alias_ SVN, SVK, Git and Catalust
04:48 itcharlie Another thing I notice is that I am unable to run perl code that is using Wx widgets
04:49 itcharlie is this known?
04:49 Alias_ Why do you say that
04:49 Alias_ Padre is wxWidgets... you can't run Padre at all?
04:50 szabgab Alias_: why do you need to break them
04:50 szabgab really
04:50 Alias_ They are using Padre::Util::get_project_dir
04:50 szabgab we HAVE TO provide a period for them to switch!
04:50 Alias_ hrm... I'll add an emulator I guess
04:50 Alias_ But we've got no method to signal deprecation
04:51 szabgab we can document it at least
04:51 Alias_ Annoyingly, none of them actually declare the Padre::Util dependency
04:51 szabgab and the a few releases later we can start emitting warnings when the it is called
04:52 szabgab itcharlie: that I did not know about
04:52 Alias_ Actually, I can even make that automatic
04:53 Alias_ if ( $VERSION > XXX ) { warn
04:53 szabgab itcharlie: can you give an example of failur of running wx-ish code?
04:53 itcharlie ok so when I attempt to run code sample from this wx tutorial  http://wxperl.sourceforge.n​et/tutorial/tutorial2.html
04:53 itcharlie I click on the run button and nothing shows up. When I run the same script in cmd it will load a wx window
04:53 szabgab Alias_: yes, that seems like a good idea
04:54 szabgab so give 0.04 to them before start warning
04:54 Alias_ yup
04:54 szabgab and probably better to start warning on odd numbers already
04:54 Alias_ If $VERSION > 0.84
04:54 szabgab so we will start seeing the warnings before the others
04:54 Alias_ 0.82 and 0.84 are silent, as soon as we move to 0.85 for dev it warns
04:54 szabgab yes that sound ok
04:57 itcharlie beware that if you run the script on a dev instance it will run and load the wx window
04:57 itcharlie this only seems to happen in production padre
05:02 szabgab itcharlie: oh I missed your link earlier, checking now
05:03 szabgab itcharlie: what happens if you run those scripts from the command line?
05:03 itcharlie the wx window will populate as coded :D
05:04 itcharlie Does it have anything to do with the way it Loops?
05:06 szabgab and what happens if you run it from padre?
05:07 itcharlie nothing populates but it seems to be executing cause I see the Stop execution menu option
05:07 szabgab maybe you are running it via the debugger
05:07 szabgab and stop on the firs line?
05:07 szabgab tried to run using F5 ?
05:08 itcharlie attempting script with f5
05:09 itcharlie nothing
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05:12 szabgab itcharlie: try after restating padre, it might be waiting for the other
05:12 itcharlie ok closing padre now
05:13 itcharlie open padre and attempting to open the wx script
05:13 itcharlie running with F5
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05:14 itcharlie Nothing
05:16 itcharlie I think the issue is the mainloop method
05:18 szabgab running via F5 should act the same as running on the command line
05:18 szabgab do you have "External window" selected ?
05:18 szabgab for output I mean
05:18 itcharlie let me select that option
05:21 itcharlie hmm padre crashed on me the last time I attempted to run the program
05:21 itcharlie I will have to restart
05:21 itcharlie brb
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05:25 itcharlie how do I make output "external"
05:26 itcharlie found it under tools and preference
05:28 itcharlie external window seems to make it work
05:28 itcharlie hmm so the work around is to use an external window for perl programs with GUI enviroments
05:31 itcharlie Thanks Alias_  and szabgab  I will now end my day for my body seeks rest. see you guys tomorrow.
05:32 Alias_ Curious
05:32 Alias_ I shall investigate later when I have less urgent internals to play with
05:32 Alias_ :)
05:32 itcharlie :D
05:33 itcharlie have a good one  cheers!!
05:33 itcharlie left #padre
06:20 * Alias_ drops a fairly large phase 2 commit of the project manager code
06:20 Alias_ (Project Manager internals, no gui or features)
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08:04 Hyppolit svn: r13714 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13714
08:04 Hyppolit Landing the Project Manager internals, might be a few dragons
08:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/t/
08:05 marcela joined #padre
08:05 El_Che yeah dragons!
08:18 szabgab we can rename Alias_ the dragon master
08:26 danlucraft joined #padre
08:37 El_Che the skating dragon master
08:39 Hyppolit svn: r13715 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13715
08:39 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
08:39 Alias_ Crouching Tiger Skating Dragon
08:46 szabgab how could we convince Alias_ to add at least a simple comment to a commit when he is making such big changes?
08:46 szabgab or was that just a bug converting all the file to Windows EOL?
08:47 Sewi I thought svn requires a comment on each commit?
08:49 szabgab sure but he can leave it empty
08:49 szabgab ok, let me try to do something useful now
08:53 Alias_ I did comment it
08:53 Alias_ "Fixing some author tests"
08:53 Alias_ Dunno why it doesn't show
08:53 Alias_ Sorry, "Fixes for author tests"
08:54 Alias_ And yes, it was a Windows EOL bug, because Padre doesn't enforce project preferences properly yet
08:54 Alias_ Which I do plan to fix
09:02 Alias_ Padre::Project is looking much nicer now
09:02 Hyppolit svn: r13716 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13716
09:02 Hyppolit Removed the not-merely-deprecated-but-actually-unused Padre::Project->class
09:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
09:03 Alias_ Much smaller and contained, and more focused on being an actual Project abstraction instead of being spagetti'ed into the rest of Padre
09:03 Alias_ Wish I could do the same to Padre::Document and Padre::Editor, get them somehow more separated
09:03 Alias_ If you can, please install the current trunk and just use it day to day and see if anything breaks
09:04 Alias_ I think it's perfectly compatible, but stuff around the directory tree or detection of project root stuff like in Find in Files might potentially go wonky
09:04 Alias_ Projects being detected inside other projects maybe...
09:04 Alias_ Stuff like that
09:04 Alias_ I'm about 80% sure nothing is wrong
09:04 Alias_ Also, I avoided hacking last weekend for the 0.82 release, what happened?
09:04 Alias_ waxhead: No release?
09:05 Alias_ If you are interested, try opening 10 or 20 files at once, and look at the speed difference from 0.80 :)
09:06 waxhead Alias_, seems not.. I've been fiddling with other stuff..
09:06 waxhead OK.. I need to work out at what revision to release from
09:06 waxhead or are people happy to release from head?
09:07 Alias_ Not considering the size of what I just landed
09:07 waxhead that's what I figured...
09:07 Alias_ Although if it's going to sit somewhere for a few days and be tested, it should be ok
09:07 Sewi waxhead: Freeze head trunk and look if something went wrong with Alias updates within a week or so
09:07 Alias_ I'm doing some manual testing now and I can't find any problems
09:07 Sewi Not freeze, but use :)
09:07 waxhead nah.. I'm going to branch from a revision and release from that...
09:09 Alias_ ook, found a bug
09:09 Alias_ Well, found what looks like must be a bug based on a dump of the project manager object
09:10 szabgab I think we should wait at least a few hours/a day of usage on the trunk after such a big change
09:10 szabgab and only then branch to release
09:11 Hyppolit svn: r13717 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13717
09:11 Hyppolit Fixed a typo that I then cut and pasted 13 times
09:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
09:11 Alias_ oh yeah, I just thought of another bug
09:11 Alias_ That I probably made 2 weeks ago
09:12 Alias_ This is quite a nice change from fixing other people's bugs :)
09:12 Alias_ oops
09:12 Alias_ trunk broken :(
09:13 Alias_ typo
09:14 Alias_ oh dear..
09:14 Alias_ wait 2 mins :)
09:24 waxhead no rush.. I'm bound up with how to do the svn work flow for a release...
09:24 waxhead releasing from trunk with the release.pl script was simple
09:24 waxhead so thinking about this release from a branch...
09:24 Alias_ It's identical
09:25 Alias_ Just use a slightly different path
09:25 waxhead should I consider creating a new working copy, then svn copy to /branches as say, release_0.82
09:25 fenderson hi
09:25 waxhead then svn switch my local copy to that
09:25 waxhead that lets me build locally with RELEASE_TESTING=1
09:25 Alias_ Are you on Windows or unix?
09:26 waxhead linux
09:26 waxhead windows has tortise, which is really sweet for this sort of hting
09:26 Alias_ There's two steps here right?
09:26 Alias_ ick, tortoise :(
09:26 waxhead I have no problem with clickity click.. :)
09:26 Alias_ Rapid is better
09:26 waxhead works for me
09:26 Alias_ You can add the entire repo to it as easily as a checkout
09:26 Alias_ And do operations on the server directly
09:26 waxhead really?  never used it.. I htink there's a rapid for linux
09:27 Alias_ Anyways
09:27 Alias_ I don't actually release off a checkout
09:27 waxhead no.. that wasn't my plan.. release from the server
09:27 waxhead just have to change the paths for svn that's all
09:27 waxhead and the revision number
09:27 Alias_ What I do is take the name of the thing to release, and calculate the full path of the repo for the thing I'm releasing
09:27 Alias_ Then do an export rather than a checkout
09:28 Alias_ oh, I see
09:28 waxhead Alias_, yeah.. I'm following. I htink we are on the same level here...
09:29 Alias_ As for the branch...
09:29 Hyppolit svn: r13718 | sblandin++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13718
09:29 Hyppolit Updated Padre Italian translation
09:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
09:29 Alias_ svn copy https://.../trunk/Padre https://.../branch/Padre-whatever
09:29 Alias_ Do the cloning on the server directly
09:29 waxhead yeah, that was step one...
09:29 Alias_ And I just make one checkout per branch
09:29 Alias_ It's a bit slower, but it's easier to remember where you are
09:30 waxhead ok that's fine... so how about merging, say like the translations we just saw the it one updated..
09:30 Alias_ Well, personally I have my own merge tool
09:30 Alias_ I checkout the three different places I want to merge against and to it by hand
09:30 waxhead this is where it gets painful, you have to merge that revision from trunk to the branch..
09:31 szabgab waxhead:   try ../tools/pvn
09:32 Alias_ waxhead: I use a gui tool that means you still merge by hand, but it guides the process
09:32 Alias_ And guides it well
09:32 waxhead yeah.. that's what I'm after... the GUI tool...
09:32 Alias_ Araxis Merge
09:32 szabgab fenderson: have you managed to run padre from trunk then?
09:32 Alias_ Windows only, but awesome
09:33 waxhead I'm wondering now if I shouldn't move this to windows.. I haven't found much joy with these things on linux....
09:33 szabgab waxhead: no
09:33 Alias_ Then you'll just have other problems :)
09:33 * waxhead goes snaffling through synaptic to see what's there
09:33 El_Che "windows only" and "awsome" in the same sentence? :)
09:35 Hyppolit svn: r13719 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13719
09:35 Hyppolit Fix the typo properly this time, and in the process found a way to cut out a bunch of File::Spec operations and code
09:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
09:35 szabgab waxhead: have you tried "meld" ?
09:35 Alias_ El_Che: Like Photoshop or Dreamweaver
09:35 El_Che about API changes for the plugins: wouldn't it be cool that a plugin like a Moose plugin would add a "Moose Module" template to File-New?
09:35 waxhead szabgab, just googled it..
09:36 Alias_ By which I mean Not-Linux, rather than Windows-Only
09:36 Alias_ El_Che: Absolutely on the cards
09:36 El_Che Alias_: I've tried to love photoshop (as a photographer), but failed
09:36 szabgab Alias_: you think we have enough brain cells to follow your mixed commits?
09:36 Alias_ Mixed?
09:36 Alias_ I did a mixed commit?
09:37 szabgab at least the commend said so
09:37 Alias_ I broken my install of Padre, so I couldn't use it to fix Padre
09:37 Alias_ So I installed Notepad++
09:37 Alias_ :(
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09:37 Alias_ My comment doesn't say mixed
09:37 szabgab the fun of editin your editor
09:37 El_Che mangled?
09:37 El_Che :)
09:37 Alias_ daxim: Sponsorship requested, hopefully will know in a day or two
09:38 waxhead ok.. how far back should I look to release from?
09:39 waxhead I'm thinking before tonight... :)
09:39 daxim okay, good
09:39 Alias_ waxhead: No no, now is fine
09:39 Alias_ hrm
09:39 waxhead seriously???
09:40 Alias_ oh man, I accidentally added a feature
09:40 Alias_ Now, you could arguably also call it a leak
09:41 El_Che a sideffect of too many dragons? :)
09:41 * Alias_ has a minor bone to pick with whoever moved all the Dump tools in the Developer plugin into a submenu
09:42 Alias_ Now it takes twice as long to use the things I use more than any other thing in the main root menu
09:42 user_7566 joined #padre
09:43 Alias_ Greetings anonymous Padre user!
09:43 user_7566 left #padre
09:43 Alias_ :(
09:43 szabgab Alias_: what about adding a &D to that submenu?
09:43 szabgab would that improve your usability?
09:44 szabgab and yes, that was me and I think I said something about us needing to dicuss changes
09:44 szabgab but that was after I moved the items one level deeper
09:44 Alias_ It's a developer plugin, until that menu occupies the entire vertical space of your monitor ugly and fast is better :)
09:45 waxhead szabgab, pvn looks ok so far
09:45 waxhead does anyone have a naming convention for the releases in the branches directory?
09:45 waxhead ie
09:45 szabgab I have a small screen so it wa already too long for me :)
09:45 Hyppolit svn: r13720 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13720
09:45 Hyppolit Actually added $COMPATIBLE to about 5 things
09:45 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
09:45 waxhead branches/Release-0.82
09:46 Alias_ lower case
09:46 waxhead oh.. do you want to have the tar ball go back into that branch?
09:46 waxhead branches/release-0.82?
09:47 * Alias_ still doesn't understand why we're using branches and tags as if they are different things
09:47 waxhead convention that the SVN book recommends
09:47 szabgab its the mental concept that matters
09:47 Alias_ Clearly, which is why all of our operating systems are implemented in our head
09:48 waxhead regardless of what it REALLY means to svn and its view of the world, the svn book recommends, tags, branches and trunk as key directories in your svn repo
09:49 waxhead tag for a release makes conceptual sense.. where as a branch implies a code branch that does it's own thing which at some point is merged back into trunk
09:49 Alias_ So we're branching the entire multi-distro trunk?
09:49 szabgab so it will be easy for people to decide which thing they can chnage and which they should not
09:49 Alias_ Because that's what svn says we should do too
09:49 waxhead Alias_, how do you mean?
09:49 szabgab tags are immutable - even if SVN does not enforce it
09:50 waxhead I like to think that branches are a temporary thing
09:50 szabgab we don't work strictly according to the book
09:50 waxhead tags are untouchable,...
09:50 szabgab but we try to make sense
09:50 waxhead branches come and go...
09:50 waxhead I even had one for a little while...
09:50 szabgab if we worked as the book says we shoul dhave   branches/Padre/Release-082
09:50 waxhead then one day I deleted it
09:50 Alias_ Release branches often don't
09:51 szabgab but we don't use branches that much to matter
09:51 Alias_ true
09:51 waxhead only if you have more than one project in your repo..
09:51 Alias_ I'll live with my setup, which has actually immutable tags without needing svns fake 'tags'
09:52 szabgab waxhead: well each plugin is a project but we really don't need another level in the branches for us
09:52 waxhead oh.. good point
09:52 waxhead we could do branches/release/0.82
09:52 szabgab Alias_: TIMTOWDI?
09:52 szabgab waxhead: pls no
09:53 waxhead ok :)
09:53 szabgab let's keep the branches flat for now
09:53 waxhead Alias_, how broken is trunk at hte moment then?
09:53 szabgab if for some reason it gets crowded we can change the directories
09:54 waxhead so as to the work flow... branch the agreed upon revision...
09:54 waxhead then switch to that
09:54 Alias_ As far as I can tell, not even remotely broken
09:54 waxhead then run the version and tidy scripts
09:54 waxhead committing to that branch?
09:54 Alias_ Although give me one second to fix one more thing
09:54 waxhead then once released, merge back to trunk?
09:54 Alias_ Apply the tidying pre-branch
09:54 szabgab let me svn up
09:54 Alias_ Otherwise merge will be a nightmare
09:55 Alias_ Probably apply the version to 0.82 on trunk too
09:55 waxhead or should we run the version and tidy scripts on trunk then THEN branch?
09:55 Alias_ Tidy and version to 0.82 on trunk
09:55 szabgab waxhead: have a clean and tided repo before branching
09:55 Alias_ Make the branch
09:55 Alias_ then version trunk to 0.83
09:55 szabgab and generate the strings file
09:55 szabgab before branching
09:55 Alias_ And what szabgab said
09:55 waxhead what strings file?
09:55 Alias_ .pot
09:55 waxhead I've never done that before
09:55 szabgab I think I listed the steps in a mail
09:56 szabgab 2-3 days ago
09:56 waxhead oh.. ok.. I'll go check
09:56 waxhead ok then..
09:56 waxhead set version in trunk to next dev version commit
09:56 waxhead then branch, set version to proper release number
09:57 waxhead commit
09:57 waxhead tidy
09:57 fenderson hi
09:57 waxhead build and test
09:57 waxhead create tar ball
09:57 waxhead hey fenderson
09:57 fenderson i downloaded the working copy of padre's trunk
09:57 Alias_ ook, bug
09:57 fenderson and opened the folder
09:57 Alias_ But not related to my big commits
09:58 fenderson and i dont know what to run, should i run padre.yml?
09:58 waxhead fenderson, so you have got trunk from svn?
09:58 waxhead change directory to where you have Padre
09:59 waxhead fenderson, for me that looks like: pete@owl:~/Programming/Perl/Padre/trunk/Padre$
09:59 waxhead now do an ls in that directory
09:59 waxhead you should see a Changes file
09:59 waxhead and a Makefile.PL
09:59 waxhead fenderson, at the command line type:
09:59 waxhead perl Makefile.PL
09:59 waxhead you will see a list of dependancies you need for Padre...
09:59 waxhead make sure you have all of them...
10:00 waxhead if you don't you need to install missing deps using cpan...
10:00 waxhead however, a word of warning..
10:00 waxhead on your linux machine you really should do this with local::lib
10:00 waxhead that way you don't mix up your system perl with newer or non package maintained modules
10:01 fenderson done it already
10:01 waxhead mind you, if you don't care, then that's fine..
10:01 waxhead ok..
10:01 waxhead so what do you get when you run perl Makefile.PL ?
10:01 Hyppolit svn: r13721 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13721
10:01 Hyppolit Correct the single instance server on Windows to use the configured or smart-default port again like it used to
10:01 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
10:01 fenderson make
10:01 waxhead Alias_, I read somewhere that the port you used is used by antoher app...
10:01 Alias_ ok, now your system install of Padre and perl dev won't share the same single-instance server
10:01 Alias_ 4444 or 4445?
10:01 fenderson make file and test
10:02 Alias_ or both?
10:02 waxhead that we should make it a configurable option
10:02 Alias_ It is a configurable option
10:02 Alias_ main_singleinstance_port
10:02 waxhead fenderson, so once you have run perl Makefile.PL
10:02 waxhead Alias_, oh...
10:02 Alias_ And now Padre actually listens to that configuration option again
10:02 waxhead fenderson, you run make && make test
10:02 waxhead fenderson, and that's it...
10:02 Alias_ At some plan I was planning to make it smart-adaptive
10:02 waxhead you can then run the dev script that's in that directory
10:02 Alias_ So if it couldn't bind to the port it would pick another one at random and save the new one into configuration
10:03 waxhead fenderson, ie ./dev
10:03 Alias_ Maybe we should rename that to something more obvious
10:03 waxhead if it's chmod 755
10:03 Alias_ padredev
10:03 waxhead otherwise run perl dev
10:03 fenderson it done also
10:03 waxhead Alias_, is it in the preferences dialog?
10:03 fenderson what file should i run
10:04 fenderson ie ./dev?
10:04 Alias_ waxhead: Advanced
10:04 waxhead fenderson, yes
10:04 fenderson waxhead:
10:04 waxhead ./dev
10:04 waxhead fenderson, otherwise
10:04 waxhead perl dev
10:04 fenderson waxhead: ok thanks :)
10:04 waxhead which is basically explicitly telling the shell to run the perl executable and you are passing the dev script to perl to run
10:05 fenderson waxhead:  i didnt get the last part
10:05 Alias_ The main thing that dev script does is bootstrap Padre with a private configuration directory in the checkout
10:05 Alias_ So it won't screw with your system-install configuration directory
10:05 fenderson passing the dev script to perl to run?
10:05 Alias_ perl dev
10:05 waxhead Alias_, the problem is that the other program might start after Padre
10:06 Alias_ waxhead: True, but that's why we added the configuration
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10:06 waxhead fenderson, don't worry so much... you only need to use "perl dev" if your dev script isn't set as executable
10:06 fenderson what program?
10:06 waxhead Alias_, sure
10:06 Alias_ perl dev
10:06 Alias_ fenderson: Type that
10:06 Alias_ perl dev
10:06 waxhead fenderson, do you see the dev script ?
10:06 waxhead man my cat is curious...
10:07 Alias_ waxhead: Anyways, what program it is that is a problem, there is a way out for them
10:07 Alias_ (That actually works again)
10:07 fenderson it opend padre
10:07 Alias_ Excellent
10:07 waxhead fenderson, woo hoo!
10:07 waxhead fenderson++
10:07 fenderson :D thanks alot !!!
10:07 fenderson waxhead:
10:07 Alias_ fenderson: You should see a slightly different thing in the Padre title bad than usual
10:07 fenderson and Alias_
10:08 waxhead Alias_, don't know what the program was.. just caught mention of the issue in the backlogs..
10:08 waxhead which is what I read at work...
10:08 Alias_ waxhead: I forget too, but it's resolve
10:08 waxhead which is frustrating as heck beucase I can't jump in..
10:09 * waxhead wonders how long he can avoid the branching thing for release
10:09 szabgab Alias_: what problem?
10:10 Alias_ I'm completely happy with trunk at the moment
10:10 Alias_ So I'm going home
10:10 Alias_ Do the tidying and branching now if you can
10:10 szabgab that cannot run in padre but runs stand alone?
10:10 waxhead ok.. just scanning back
10:10 szabgab waxhead: don't worry about the branching thing
10:10 szabgab or if you want to worry do so
10:11 szabgab but I can also help you through the release
10:11 szabgab or I can try to do it myself this time
10:11 waxhead hahaha.. I'll worry until I get comfortable with it
10:11 waxhead no.. that's fine..
10:11 szabgab ok, we are here to help you
10:11 waxhead so are we agreed, tidy trunk first
10:11 Alias_ szabgab: what problem?
10:11 szabgab also
10:12 waxhead set trunk version to next dev cycle version
10:12 szabgab you don't need to worry as long as we are here
10:12 Alias_ 1. tidy 2. version to 0.82 3. messages.pot rebuild 4. branch 5. version to 0.83
10:12 waxhead close changes for this version set new dev/reelase  version
10:12 szabgab we will be gone by the time trouble shows up
10:12 waxhead oh yeah.. the email...
10:12 Alias_ oh, 1.1 changes file
10:12 * waxhead goes read it
10:12 szabgab Alias_: I don't know you and waxhead just talked about some problem in some code/app ?
10:13 Alias_ szabgab: Some other app uses the same port as the Padre single instance server
10:13 waxhead szabgab, no.. port number use for the single server
10:13 waxhead it's not a problem
10:13 szabgab oh
10:13 Alias_ So we added a config entry a while back
10:13 Alias_ But I regressed it to using a fixed port
10:13 szabgab I don't know about that
10:13 Alias_ Now fixed again
10:13 Alias_ Also, Padre system and Padre dev use different ports
10:13 Alias_ So the two don't collide when doing Padre launch from other tools
10:13 Alias_ You get two x single-instance
10:14 Alias_ And on that note, home
10:15 waxhead szabgab, I can't find your email in the list
10:15 fenderson how can i get a trac account?
10:15 waxhead szabgab,  oh.. what was the comment about my date format too?
10:16 waxhead fenderson, oooo wait.. I can do that!!!
10:16 Sewi waxhead :-)
10:16 Sewi fenderson: Wait until wax prepared everything and then go to
10:16 Sewi register?
10:16 Hyppolit register is http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
10:17 waxhead register?
10:17 Hyppolit register is http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
10:17 szabgab waxhead: just that we should use YYYY-MM-DD as date format
10:17 waxhead oh.. Sewi has already done it
10:17 fenderson Sewi: ok
10:17 waxhead fenderson, you should be right to go
10:17 szabgab that's the hungarian way of writing dates
10:17 Sewi waxhead: No, I just wrote the notice
10:17 szabgab and also the ISO standard
10:17 waxhead let us know when you have done it
10:17 waxhead szabgab, I just followed the format set before me...
10:17 fenderson waxhead: thanks :(
10:17 fenderson :)
10:18 waxhead I think I use 3 different formats depending on what was used previously
10:18 waxhead that's fine.. i can do that.
10:19 waxhead oh.. this is interesting...
10:19 waxhead what date do I put into the Changes file?
10:19 waxhead for the release date???
10:20 waxhead fenderson, done yet?
10:20 szabgab I think you can put todays date
10:20 szabgab so you won't need to change that on the branch
10:21 fenderson waxhead: yea i'm reading the about
10:21 fenderson tnx :) you're realy helping me :)
10:21 waxhead fenderson, have you created your login?
10:21 fenderson yea
10:21 waxhead I'll close the registration if you have, that's all
10:21 waxhead cool...
10:22 waxhead regisration is now closed
10:22 szabgab waxhead: http://mail.perlide.org/pipermail/p​adre-dev/2011-February/002369.html
10:22 Sewi szabgab: What about commit bits, shall we still throw them on anybody who asks?
10:23 szabgab Sewi: I would be a bit more cautious with that
10:23 Sewi ok
10:24 szabgab ok, I gave one to markd but and I would give one to Mattia without him asking
10:24 szabgab or maybe he already has one :)
10:24 Sewi Mattia = fenderson?
10:24 szabgab no
10:24 Hyppolit svn: r13722 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13722
10:24 Hyppolit Setting date for release 0.82.
10:24 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
10:26 waxhead I think we should encourage patches to trac initially
10:26 Alias Not until Padre can generate patches
10:26 szabgab fenderson is at an early stage of leanring this stuff,  I am trying to mentor him
10:26 Alias There's no easy way to produce patch files on Windows
10:27 szabgab svn diff works on windows as well
10:27 szabgab and afaik Tortoise also supports that already
10:27 Alias Assuming you are using command line diff
10:27 Alias Point is, it's going to be different
10:27 Alias Can Padre svn plugin do it?
10:27 Hyppolit svn: r13723 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13723
10:27 Hyppolit Project tidy
10:27 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/t/ trunk/Padre/xt/
10:32 waxhead Alias_, the pade svn plugin relies on the OS having the svn binaries
10:32 Alias But if it does have the binaries, can it produce a patch?
10:32 waxhead and that's the svn commandline binaries
10:32 Hyppolit svn: r13724 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13724
10:32 Hyppolit Setting next dev version, 0.83
10:32 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Browser/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Config/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DB/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DB/Migrate/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/QuickFix/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/File/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/PPI/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/PopularityContest/ trunk/Padre/
10:33 waxhead doesn't svn have a diff command?
10:33 waxhead szabgab, what's the go with the pot file thing?
10:34 waxhead szabgab, is that ../tools/update_pot_file.pl
10:34 szabgab I am not sure what "go" means there
10:34 szabgab but that is the script that updates it
10:34 szabgab that updates the pot file
10:35 waxhead szabgab, sorry... what do I do for the pot file in your email
10:35 waxhead the updates messages pot file?
10:35 waxhead Alias_, there is a diff thing in the SVN plugin...
10:35 szabgab waxhead: yes, run that script
10:35 szabgab translations?
10:35 szabgab translation?
10:35 Hyppolit translation is http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/wiki/TranslationIntro
10:36 waxhead actually that's why I added that method to Padre something like "create_document_from_string" or some such to allow me to put the diff into padre
10:36 szabgab waxhead: I think it is described there
10:36 waxhead and I commit the change back?
10:36 szabgab it should change the pot file only and then yes you commit it back
10:36 szabgab nad all the translators will go mad :)
10:37 waxhead wow.. that ran really quickly!
10:37 szabgab err, red
10:38 szabgab waxhead: do you know why is there also 0.81 in the Changes file?
10:39 waxhead szabgab, not really... I was wondering about that myself... the idea I think is that any major API changes get recorded in the dev cycle here...
10:39 szabgab oh the odd numbers are now listing the API changes?
10:39 waxhead changes to the release are the ones in the even number...
10:39 szabgab Alias: ? ^^^^
10:39 waxhead so a non visible API change goes into the odd number
10:39 waxhead alias, asked for it.. :)
10:40 Alias Correct, we put API changes into the odd number
10:40 Hyppolit svn: r13725 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13725
10:40 Hyppolit Updated messages.pot
10:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
10:40 Alias That lets us update the $COMPATIBLE values in the Padre codebase, so the plugins can update their dependencies and test before the production release goes out
10:40 waxhead ahh.. bugger..
10:40 Alias So I note the API breakages themselves in the odd versions, without mentioning the feature
10:40 waxhead got the things mixed up with the versioning...
10:41 Alias You changes the $COMPATIBLE versions as well as the $VERSION versions?
10:41 Alias Not supposed to do that :)
10:41 szabgab Alias:  waxhead maybe we should explain that at the top of the Changes file?
10:41 waxhead szabgab, agreed
10:41 Alias waxhead: I recommend PPI::PowerToys
10:41 Alias ppi_version change 0.81 0.82
10:41 Alias Automatically looks for all the $VERSIONs in a project and updates them, and only them
10:45 waxhead oh really?
10:45 waxhead I'll add that to the script.. for now it just looks for ^our $VERSION....
10:46 waxhead which breaks on Padre::Util based on that begin block you moved it into
10:46 Alias I use ppi_version on all 200 or so of my things
10:46 Alias And it's PPI based
10:46 Alias Much smarter
10:46 waxhead Alias, I didn't change compatiable did I?
10:50 waxhead szabgab, how come pvn is so strict with the characters in the branch name?
10:51 Alias waxhead: $COMPATIBLE looks fine to me
10:52 Hyppolit svn: r13726 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13726
10:52 Hyppolit Creating release 0.82 branch
10:52 Hyppolit branches/
10:52 waxhead szabgab, not any more.. :)
10:57 waxhead ppi_version rocks!!!!
11:01 waxhead hmm......
11:02 Hyppolit svn: r13727 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13727
11:02 Hyppolit screwed up the version before the branch so setting version back to 0.82 for the release branch
11:02 Hyppolit branches/release-0.82/lib/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/Browser/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/Config/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/DB/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/DB/Migrate/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/Document/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Pa​dre/Document/Perl/QuickFix/ branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/File/ branches/release-
11:03 szabgab hooo
11:05 szabgab waxhead: do you feel ok now with the release branch?
11:05 waxhead sure... only taken me 2 hours to get to this point
11:05 szabgab :)
11:06 szabgab I am sure next time it will be better
11:06 szabgab you will also write down the process in trac
11:06 szabgab Will you send out the call for testing and the call for translations or shall I do it?
11:07 Hyppolit svn: r13728 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13728
11:07 Hyppolit Updating changes for trunk and adding some words to explain the Odd/Even scheme.
11:07 Hyppolit
11:07 Hyppolit Please review and update as needed.
11:07 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
11:08 waxhead yep... I'll update the release trac wiki...
11:08 waxhead that process seems to be a good step..
11:08 waxhead I'll also commit back pvn...
11:08 szabgab there is  section for "release from branch" or something similar
11:08 szabgab alrady in the release page
11:09 Hyppolit svn: r13729 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13729
11:09 Hyppolit actually execute the command removed the checking of the branch name
11:09 Hyppolit trunk/tools/
11:09 waxhead szabgab, yes there is, that's what I'll update
11:09 waxhead szabgab, I'll also trial a release build to see if it works... it should, but just want to test
11:10 szabgab waxhead: wy did you remove the checking of the name?
11:10 waxhead szabgab, update tools/pvn to see
11:10 szabgab why not just allow . as well, if that was the issue?
11:10 waxhead szabgab, because it wouldn't let me use reelase-0.82 as the name of the brach
11:10 waxhead oh.. I wasn't looking close enough at the regex
11:10 waxhead I'll put it back if you like
11:10 szabgab yes please
11:11 szabgab waxhead: so will you send that e-mail or shall I?
11:11 waxhead I will :)
11:11 szabgab ok
11:11 waxhead oh.. so translators have to check out the release branch to update the strings?
11:11 szabgab once I see that mail I'll try to contact each one of the translators personally
11:11 waxhead after the release, I merge that back to trunk?
11:12 szabgab and ask them to work on the translation
11:12 szabgab waxhead: yes
11:12 szabgab the translators work on the release branch and they should only change their own translation files
11:12 szabgab nothing else
11:12 szabgab not the Changes, not the .pot
11:12 szabgab nothing
11:13 szabgab or the merge can become a nightmare
11:13 Hyppolit svn: r13730 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13730
11:13 Hyppolit putting the name check back in.
11:13 Hyppolit trunk/tools/
11:13 waxhead szabgab, how come you allow non setting of a message in pvn?
11:13 waxhead I think it should be mandatory...
11:15 szabgab I think I had a default text thre based on the branch name
11:15 szabgab but you can make it mandatory
11:15 szabgab if  you think so
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11:36 waxhead email sent
11:36 waxhead ok.. only critic test fails with the branch...
11:37 waxhead I'll do a full RELEASE_TESTING run through tomorrow night...
11:37 waxhead getting tired now and want to update trac..
11:52 szabgab waxhead: so I guess next time we should make those tests pass *before* branching
11:53 waxhead maybe.. but isn't that the point of hte branch?
11:53 waxhead it would be nicer though if it was passing before branching
11:53 waxhead less to merge later
11:55 waxhead Hmm... do we really want to delete the release branches at the end?
11:56 waxhead szabgab, http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Release
11:56 waxhead that should capture what we did tonight
11:57 waxhead I'm inclined to remove the 'release from trunk' stuff.. or at the least move it to the bottom of the page
11:58 waxhead I'll incorporate the release script process from that into the release from branch
11:58 waxhead but not tonight..
11:58 waxhead spent all day at the keyboard and now all night.. :)
11:58 waxhead sleep(60*60*8);
12:03 szabgab waxhead: night then
12:03 szabgab thank you!
12:03 waxhead night...
12:04 szabgab and no, the release branch is not for fixing obvious bugs
12:04 * waxhead isn't an Alias machine... he needs to sleep... :)
12:04 szabgab we could fix earlier
12:04 waxhead really?
12:04 waxhead hmm..
12:04 Hyppolit svn: r13731 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13731
12:04 Hyppolit Merging the logic used to choose the Consolas font into the DISTRO "constant" fakery
12:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
12:04 szabgab at least IMHO
12:04 waxhead so fix in trunk and merge to the branch then?
12:05 szabgab yes (or rather fix in both places)
12:05 waxhead hmm... this could be a problem I guess if the branch sits out there too long..
12:05 szabgab at least you'll learn the pain :)
12:05 waxhead szabgab, but then you have merge problems if both are done
12:05 waxhead done in one place and merge that revision?
12:05 szabgab that's why you only need to merge the translation files
12:05 * waxhead needs to read the svn book again..
12:05 szabgab the merge btw does not help in avoiding pain
12:06 szabgab as SVN does not really know it was a merge
12:06 waxhead I know... even on our two man project it gets painful...
12:06 szabgab you still need to know that info
12:06 szabgab so we will ty to limit our fixing on the branch to critical issues
12:06 waxhead well, the failing tests need to be fixed, so there will be merge pain at the end of the release
12:07 szabgab and each such fix will need the approval of several people
12:07 waxhead not for tests that fail surely?
12:07 waxhead especially the critic ones...
12:08 szabgab waxhead: there should be no such issues so let's use this case as a learning experience on how we decide on the fixes
12:08 waxhead totally agree...
12:08 waxhead night!  :)
12:08 szabgab knight!
12:10 Hyppolit svn: r13732 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13732
12:10 Hyppolit Typo fix
12:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
12:14 Hyppolit svn: r13733 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13733
12:14 Hyppolit Typo/critic fix
12:14 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
12:26 Sewi left #padre
12:27 Sewi joined #padre
12:33 Hyppolit svn: r13734 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13734
12:33 Hyppolit Nudging File::Spec deps around
12:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
12:37 Hyppolit svn: r13735 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13735
12:37 Hyppolit Removed a superfluous dep
12:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
12:46 Alias Does anyone else see bugs in the syntax highlighting?
12:47 Alias I get big blocks of black or grey or something
12:55 Hyppolit svn: r13736 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13736
12:55 Hyppolit 3-argument open to keep critic happy
12:55 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
13:09 Hyppolit svn: r13737 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13737
13:09 Hyppolit Shut up critic
13:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/
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13:10 Hyppolit svn: r13738 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13738
13:10 Hyppolit More shutting up of critic
13:10 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/t/
13:15 Alias Well that should keep critic quite for a while
13:16 Alias Till my next PPI release, presumably
13:18 szabgab jq: will you have time to update the French translation of Padre? It is quite behind but now you might be able to give it a push
13:18 szabgab or get someone to help with it.
13:22 jq szabgab: sorry - i don't have the time
13:23 jq someone stepped in at some time - did he committed to the task?
13:24 szabgab jq: no proble,.   it was vrobin, I'll check with him
13:24 szabgab btw have you read that we sold 10 copies of your book at FOSDEM?
13:24 Alias It's a pity we can't just shove the untranslated strings at Google translate
13:25 jq szabgab: yes, dams told me (he brought them)
13:25 Alias But be able to track which ones we did properly, and which ones we did automatically
13:25 jq that's great
13:25 Hyppolit svn: r13739 | claudio++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13739
13:25 Hyppolit fix warning for undefined left value for ==
13:25 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
13:26 szabgab Alias: I am not sure what would the translators say to that but I think we could do that technically
13:26 szabgab or we could try at least
13:26 szabgab though I'd prefere to use some open source translation service for that
13:26 Alias The tricky bit is just not keeping the auto-translate permanently
13:27 Alias So we can use it as a last resort, but we "lose" those values for the next release
13:27 Alias "open source translation service" ?
13:27 Alias We do want something that doesn't suck right?
13:29 jnap left #padre
13:29 Hyppolit svn: r13740 | claudio++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13740
13:29 Hyppolit fix warning for undefined right value for ==
13:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
13:32 szabgab you mean open source sucks? :)
13:33 Hyppolit svn: r13741 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13741
13:33 Hyppolit Doing my best to prevent or delay loading the best that is POSIX
13:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
13:36 Hyppolit svn: r13742 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13742
13:36 Hyppolit Removed an unused dependency
13:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
13:36 Alias oops
13:37 Hyppolit svn: r13743 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13743
13:37 Hyppolit Looks like I forgot to add the -X file tests :(
13:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
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13:53 Hyppolit svn: r13744 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13744
13:53 Hyppolit I missed a spot
13:53 Hyppolit branches/release-0.82/lib/Padre/
13:55 szabgab Alias: please, could we try to do this in a more controlled way
13:56 szabgab I was really hoping that you will help me enforce  the code freeze on the release branch
13:56 Hyppolit svn: r13745 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13745
13:56 Hyppolit Nudge, thanks claudio
13:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
13:56 Alias That is a code freeze on the release branch
13:56 Alias I missed a bug
13:56 asarch joined #padre
13:56 Alias And fixed it both in the trunk AND in the release branch
13:56 Alias As we discussed
13:56 szabgab and to decide on some process on how we decide which changes should be accepted in the branch
13:57 Alias Padre::Project things that every single project is using CVS
13:57 Alias Whether it has any kind of version control or otherwise
13:58 szabgab the problem is that when waxhead is releasing padre he will check which changes happened in the branch
13:58 szabgab and he will need to make sure the were all serious issues that had to be fixed
13:58 szabgab so he won't need to worry so much
13:58 Alias You wanted a better commit message?
13:59 szabgab I think we should discuss how we decide which things can be fixed in the release branch
13:59 szabgab a better commit message is a step but I'd like to have more paper trail
14:00 szabgab I know several spots I woul dlike to fix that would be harmless
14:00 szabgab but I don't want to do them , if for nothing else for the discipline
14:00 Alias This is a bug in the code I just introduced...
14:00 Alias From like 4 hours ago
14:00 szabgab I know
14:01 szabgab but what is the limit that we set?
14:01 szabgab 5 hours?
14:01 szabgab bugs we introduced 12.3 hours ago are ok ?
14:01 szabgab but 12.4 are not?
14:01 Alias I concur
14:01 Alias 12.3 is the official length of time you can fix bugs
14:01 szabgab I never understood that word :)
14:02 szabgab can we use a rounder number ?
14:02 szabgab maybe 0 ?
14:02 Sewi ;)
14:02 szabgab but my point is a bit different
14:02 Alias "concur" is a fancy word that means "I also arrive at your conclusion and I agree with your response"
14:02 szabgab so it is a bad acronime ?
14:02 Alias No, it's english
14:02 szabgab :)
14:02 Alias It's a real word
14:02 El_Che often used with a little sarcasm :)
14:02 szabgab so let me say my real issu:
14:03 Alias Yes
14:03 szabgab e
14:03 Alias concur is little-used enough that it generally is quite serious
14:03 szabgab you might be totally ok and cool with the fix you made
14:03 szabgab but I am not sure I would be with my fixes
14:03 szabgab and there are 50 people with commit bits
14:04 Alias dictionary.com defines concur as "to accord in opinion"
14:04 Alias :)
14:04 szabgab so I'd like to have a policy of who can make and which changes to the release branch
14:04 Alias I think it's about the type of fix
14:04 Alias Something dramatic, something related to new code added for this release
14:05 szabgab and I 'd like to have some paper trail  - probably a ticket opened at least
14:05 Alias Something that might cause us to do an entire new release
14:05 Alias Something that won't change strings
14:06 szabgab yes but I don't think we can define it precisely so I'd like to decide case by case
14:08 Alias Default exclude, and defined rules for include
14:08 szabgab I mean even if it is a fix for an old bug, but which is critical (e.g. crashing padre), we would probably want it
14:08 Alias Case by case if you don't fit one of the includes
14:08 Alias We wouldn't stop an old crash
14:08 szabgab I am afraid I cant think of any good rules
14:08 Alias We just do a new release a week later
14:09 Alias Dramatic bug in code introduced in the new release
14:09 Alias It's one thing to leave an old bug in place, it's other to knowingly introduce new stuff broken
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14:09 szabgab I tend to agreee except I don't know what is "dramatic"
14:09 szabgab and who decides it?
14:10 Alias Hell, any bugs in new features
14:10 Alias That don't change strings
14:10 Alias Or feature that simply don't do what they are supposed to
14:10 szabgab I feel it is too broad
14:11 Alias You want to knowingly introduce faulty code
14:11 szabgab what is the risk of fixing it?
14:11 szabgab would it maybe create another issue?
14:12 szabgab what if that happens 3 minutes before the real release?
14:12 Alias So we fix a 100% known bug, in exchange for a percentage change of a bug
14:12 Alias Sounds like a win to me
14:12 szabgab you don't know how serious the other bug can be
14:12 Alias Sure we do
14:13 Alias We know the likely diversity and quantity of bugs on average
14:13 Alias We can't scare ourself into immobility
14:14 Alias At work, we INTENTIONALLY release broken code because the QA department won't allow fixes
14:14 Alias And it's fucking stupid
14:14 Alias You generally create big problems with big changes, on average
14:14 Alias In line terms
14:16 Alias We live with it because there's a billion dollars at stake
14:16 Alias (at work)
14:17 szabgab I think this will just conuse people
14:17 szabgab confuse
14:17 Alias Then suggest some guidelines
14:18 Alias (That doesn't add an hour of work total for three people in three different volunteers limited schedules in three timezones)
14:18 szabgab I'd like to know what others think
14:19 szabgab I know some other projects have a much more controlled way of what code goes in production
14:19 El_Che hello
14:19 szabgab open source projects
14:19 El_Che I feel like I felt into the mouth of the lion
14:20 szabgab :)
14:20 szabgab chewed?
14:24 szabgab the lion must be digesting El_Che
14:31 Hyppolit #398: PDL Plugin (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/398#comment:1.2 ]
14:39 Hyppolit #398: PDL Plugin (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/398#comment:3 ]
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14:50 fenderson hey
14:50 fenderson can any one tell me how to update padre from svn?
14:51 fenderson i couldnt find any help on google
14:52 El_Che on linux, go to the trunk directory and type svn update
14:54 Alias On windows, use your gui client or just svn update as well
14:59 fenderson El_Che: Alias thanks
14:59 Alias And now to relax before bead, time to start an all new module!
14:59 Alias bed
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15:05 El_Che yo
15:24 Alias hrm
15:24 Alias SVN::Class fails on Win32 :(
15:28 Hyppolit svn: r13746 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13746
15:28 Hyppolit Tiny compliance thingies
15:28 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SVN/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SVN/lib/Padre/Plugin/
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17:09 Hyppolit #1115: Filter through Perl: use Padre's editor component (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1115 ]
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17:11 Hyppolit #1116: Filter through Perl: use ellipsis in menu entry '...' (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1116 ]
17:14 Hyppolit #1116: Filter through Perl: use ellipsis in menu entry '...' (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1116#comment:1 ]
17:16 Hyppolit #1117: Filter through Perl: strange behavior (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1117 ]
17:18 Hyppolit #1117: Filter through Perl: strange behavior (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1117#comment:1 ]
17:19 zenog hi toi
17:22 toi Hi zenog!
17:26 Hyppolit #1118: "Stop Execution" should be available in the Output pane's context menu (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1118 ]
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17:27 pet3 Hi, anybody here using padre on Mac?
17:28 pet3 ... or better developing the Mac version?
17:32 Hyppolit #1119: "Stop Execution" should be grayed out in the menu when the script is not running (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1119 ]
17:32 zenog pet3: Hi.
17:32 zenog pet3: I use Padre on Ubuntu.
17:33 zenog pet3: Installing Padre on Mac is not always easy, but I do not know so many details.
17:34 zenog pet3: If you managed to install Padre on Mac OS X, feel free to update the wiki entry: http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/DownloadMacOSX
17:34 zenog pet3: It could be a bit outdated (for instance, the prerequisites problem is not that bad any more ...)
17:35 zenog pet3: If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask here. People also read the logs and sometimes answer a bit later.
17:35 zenog pet3: If you do not get an answer after a while, please send an e-mail to the mailing list.
17:35 zenog pet3: If you have suggestions about Padre on the Mac, feel free to share them.
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17:43 wallasey just popped in to report on discussion yesterday on dialog button appearance
17:44 wallasey all my dialogs display correctly on Ubuntu - with whatever is the default button being coloured inversely
17:44 wallasey was this the question?
17:45 zenog hi wallasey
17:46 zenog I did not see that discussion ... can you give a screenshot of that behavior?
17:48 wallasey http://home.scarlet.be/var/tmp/gnomebuttons.jpg
17:49 wallasey I think ... the question was how to get the default button inverted
17:49 wallasey But as it just 'works' anyway, I'm thinking I may have misunderstood
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17:51 Hyppolit #967: Reset focus (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/967#comment:3 ]
17:52 zenog wallasey: I think it depends on the theme whether it is inverted or highlighted in a different way.
17:52 zenog wallasey: Do you need that for a certain dialog?
17:53 wallasey No, I don't need it. El_Che asked if was easily possible and I didn't have Ubuntu to hand to check
17:53 zenog wallasey: If you want to code that, one needs to call ->SetDefault on the button.
17:53 zenog OK
17:54 wallasey cheers
17:55 Hyppolit #967: Reset focus (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/967#comment:4 ]
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18:02 Hyppolit #1120: project browser should update itself via polling (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1120 ]
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18:06 zenog hi rindolf
18:08 rindolf Hi zenog
18:09 Hyppolit #1121: module starter should have defaults for e-mail address and author name (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1121 ]
18:09 pet3 zenog: Thanks, first of all, being an old coder, I'm new to Perl. I have to take over a Perl project and some web pages suggested Padre. I tried the DMG package for OS X, but that looks like to be 64-bit only - it doesn't run on my mac with 32-bit system.
18:15 Hyppolit #1122: Save intuition should recognize more test scripts (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1122 ]
18:17 zenog pet3: If nobody answers you on the channel, I'd suggest to write an e-mail to the Padre mailing list asking what to do with 32-bit systems.
18:19 pet3 zenog: I could eventually try to compile 32-bit package myself, but there must be someone that prepared the DMG not to begin from scratch ...
18:21 pet3 is now known as mement0L
18:25 Hyppolit #308: variable name completition (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/308#comment:4 ]
18:25 Hyppolit #753: Implement better method autocompletion heuristics (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/753#comment:2 ]
18:28 Hyppolit #753: Implement better method autocompletion heuristics (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/753#comment:4 ]
18:31 Hyppolit #1119: "Stop Execution" should be grayed out in the menu when the script is not running (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1119#comment:1 ]
18:31 Hyppolit #962: Execution of Wx script is brocken on Windows (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/962#comment:3 ]
18:31 Hyppolit #1118: "Stop Execution" should be available in the Output pane's context menu (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1118#comment:1 ]
18:34 Hyppolit #1123: "Stop Execution" and "Run" should somehow indicate in the Output window how the script terminated (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1123 ]
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18:38 Hyppolit #1080: Memory leak when switching tabs between projects (assigned defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1080#comment:2 ]
18:43 Hyppolit #1124: Session Manager: "Description" column not displayed when all descriptions empty (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1124 ]
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18:53 zenog hi kaare
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19:08 * zenog has just sent another motivational e-mail to the list ;-)
19:14 zenog &
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20:01 rindolf Wow, the new Padre homepage seems nicer.
20:01 rindolf The design is slicker.
20:01 rindolf And more post-Web-2.0.
20:01 rindolf Though the About here is in a different row.
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20:41 Hyppolit svn: r13747 | ddn123456++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13747
20:41 Hyppolit Updated dutch translation by Dirk De Nijs.
20:41 Hyppolit branches/release-0.82/share/locale/
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20:58 waxhead rindolf, you're right.. the new home page does look better...
20:58 waxhead I wonder when that was done...
20:59 waxhead who ever did it... Thanks!
20:59 waxhead it's subtly different, but it makes a big difference.
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21:01 rindolf waxhead: svn blame!
21:01 rindolf Or svn praise!
21:01 rindolf someone told me that people moved from svn back to CVS because svn blame was called that.
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22:25 user_4645 How do i put To-do items in the To-do Tab
22:30 dapatrick add TODO inside a comment.
22:36 rindolf left #padre
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22:57 Alias_ or TO DO as well I think
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23:26 user_6347 Got a stupid padre question:  How can I set command line arguments for the debugger?
23:28 user_6347 Run command, command line?
23:28 Alias_ hi
23:28 Alias_ I'm not entirely sure that's possible yet
23:28 Alias_ Do we allow the equivalent of executing an expression in the debugger I wonder
23:31 user_6347 Alias: Was that to me?  You don't think it's possible to debug a script that requires arguments?
23:35 Alias_ I don't think there's an obvious place to type them in
23:36 Alias_ I think someone mentioned this earlier
23:36 Alias_ Some of the debugger functionality is very first-generation
23:37 user_6347 Okay, so to debug a script that requires arguments I have to modify the script.  At least it's a definitive answer.  Thanks.
23:38 Alias_ It's as definitive as I can give you right now without code diving
23:39 Alias_ (Since I normally use the command line debugger)
23:40 Alias_ ok, there's another way
23:40 Alias_ Maybe :)
23:40 Alias_ Debug -> Evaluate Expression
23:41 Alias_ And then in there @ARGV = qw{ arg1 arg2 arg2 }
23:41 Alias_ Not ideal, but it's better than editing the script
23:42 Alias_ Looks like it should work
23:42 user_6347 Thanks.  I'll try that and see where it takes me.
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23:49 Alias_ I think I've found a major bug in the syntax highlighting
23:49 Alias_ :(
23:57 Alias_ Design level :(
23:57 Alias_ If you use unix newlines on Windows in the scintilla widget, I think it's not detecting newlines properly sometimes, and the highlighting of the character at the end of that line is bleading through for another 50 lines or so

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