Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2011-03-01

| Channels | #padre index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:59 jazzanova joined #padre
01:59 jq left #padre
02:01 Sewi joined #padre
02:16 jq joined #padre
02:24 asarch joined #padre
02:33 Alias joined #padre
02:33 Alias yo yo yo
02:33 Alias I have implemented support for enough of wxFormBuilder's features (I think) to reimplement the Preferences dialog
02:37 Hyppolit svn: r13868 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13868
02:37 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/
02:40 Hyppolit svn: r13869 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13869
02:40 Hyppolit Upgrading FBP version
02:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/
03:08 Hyppolit svn: r13870 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13870
03:08 Hyppolit Regenerating the dialog code
03:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-ParserTool/fbp/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-ParserTool​/lib/Padre/Plugin/ParserTool/
03:17 Alias This is pretty freaking awesome
03:33 Di-ima left #padre
03:33 Di-ima joined #padre
04:10 droidica joined #padre
04:13 Hyppolit svn: r13871 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13871
04:13 Hyppolit - Padre::PluginHandle will parse_variable the version of crashed or
04:13 Hyppolit incompatible plugins rather than return '???' (ADAMK)
04:13 Hyppolit - The PluginManager dialog can now correctly distinguish between broken
04:13 Hyppolit plugins and merely incompatible plugins (ADAMK)
04:13 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
04:15 Hyppolit svn: r13872 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13872
04:15 Hyppolit Grammer'o
04:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
04:33 droidica left #padre
04:40 Hyppolit svn: r13873 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13873
04:40 Hyppolit - The ProjectManager won't shortcut the file->project detection for
04:40 Hyppolit previously intuited projects without secondary evidence such as a
04:40 Hyppolit padre.yml file or a Makefile.PL (ADAMK)
04:40 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/
05:50 asarch left #padre
05:56 kaare joined #padre
06:31 Sewi gm
06:33 Alias hi
06:34 Sewi Anybody here attending CeBit?
06:37 szabgab Sewi: Zeno is at some univ booth and Renee is also visiting one day and giving some talk
06:38 szabgab so now I have tons of books I bought and have no time to read them :)
06:38 szabgab (sorry for that last line)
06:38 szabgab Jagdwurst also asked about CeBit
06:58 Hyppolit svn: r13874 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13874
06:58 Hyppolit Defend against null projects
06:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/lib/Padre/Plugin/
07:36 pece joined #padre
07:41 Sewi ping szabgab
07:52 Hyppolit svn: r13875 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13875
07:52 Hyppolit Starting to make the code generation a bit more sophisticated, so I can use FormBuilder to improve FormBuilder more easily
07:52 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/fbp/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-FormBuilder​/lib/Padre/Plugin/FormBuilder/
07:52 Alias left #padre
07:59 mib_0st1m1 joined #padre
07:59 mib_0st1m1 left #padre
08:12 Hyppolit svn: r13876 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13876
08:12 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
08:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
08:19 fenderson hi
08:19 Sewi hi fenderson
08:19 szabgab Sewi: reping
08:20 fenderson can anyone tell me how is the To-do list on padre working
08:20 fenderson View-> To-do List
08:20 Sewi fenderson: It scans the current document for #TODO entries and shows then in a tab
08:21 Sewi szabgab: I need your help. I announced the new filter-through-perl on the mailing list on the 17/02/11 but got no reply.
08:21 fenderson Sewi: i still dont get it
08:21 Sewi I used it myself some times while working with Padre and it is working.
08:21 Sewi Shall I wait until someone replies? Merge it into trunk?
08:23 Sewi There is a TODO regex in the settings, everything matching this regex should be used for the todo list.
08:24 fenderson Sewi:
08:24 fenderson i opend now the show to-do list
08:24 Sewi Try the following: Open some Perl script or module. Add a comment "# TODO foo bar" somewhere ans save the file
08:24 fenderson thats what i'm doing
08:24 fenderson ohh i have to save it
08:25 Sewi yes (but I don't know why)
08:25 szabgab Sewi: where is that code now? is that in a plugin or in the core?
08:25 Sewi it's still a plugin but I don't think anybody tried it :-)
08:25 fenderson wow...
08:25 fenderson i saved the file
08:26 fenderson and now its crushed
08:26 fenderson i cant open that file
08:26 szabgab Sewi: and do I remember correctly that plugin itself is on a branch?
08:26 fenderson if i open the file with padre
08:27 szabgab Sewi: ohm it is in trunk just it is called "Experimental"
08:27 fenderson it falls
08:27 szabgab I'd rename it to Padre-Plugin-PerlFilter or some such and release it to CPAN
08:28 Sewi szabgab: It's a replacement for a poor core feature and I doubt anybody will install it from cpan.
08:29 Sewi Even if it's being installed, it's unable to replace the core features menu option, so people might use the core version instead of the improved one. It was never planned to stay as a module but as a replacement for what we have in core.
08:30 fenderson szabgab: i open padre wrote #TODO 1 /n #TODO 2 and sved the file, tried to open it with padre and it falls
08:31 Sewi fenderson: How does it fail?
08:31 Sewi Padre crash, some error message, ... ?
08:31 fenderson quits pade
08:31 fenderson yea
08:31 fenderson no message
08:31 fenderson nothing
08:31 Sewi Please run dev using the --die switch and try again
08:32 fenderson i dont know how to do it
08:32 fenderson perl dev --die?
08:34 Sewi How do you start Padre?
08:34 fenderson cd padre/Padre
08:35 fenderson perl dev
08:35 Casan joined #padre
08:36 Sewi then please use perl dev --die
08:36 El_Che good morning
08:36 Casan good morning here too
08:36 El_Che are in in perl::tidy bash mode? :)
08:36 El_Che are we in perl::tidy bash mode? :)
08:36 szabgab Sewi: how is that called in core?
08:37 szabgab El_Che: we have not made changes to our declared process yet, if that's what you are asking
08:38 Casan anyone else but me experiencing that the tree in the project/file browser is not displayed anymore? wondering if that is what Adam mean by "The ProjectManager won't shortcut the file->project detection for
08:38 Casan previously intuited projects without secondary evidence such as a
08:38 Casan padre.yml file or a Makefile.PL
08:38 Sewi It's not a plugin in core but it lives in edit -> filter through perl and Padre/Wx/Dialog/PerlFilter.pm
08:38 El_Che Casan: do you have a project open? what directory do you have in the preferences?
08:38 fenderson yay
08:38 fenderson Sewi:  it works
08:39 Sewi fenderson: do you have an error message now?
08:39 fenderson yea in terminal
08:39 fenderson DIE: Can't locate Wx/Loader/Custom.pm
08:39 szabgab Sewi: so is that the feature you added a few weeks ago that got me ask to do it in a plugin?
08:39 szabgab instead?
08:40 fenderson i guess i have to download wx loader custom
08:40 Sewi szabgab: It's the feature which was added and I was asked to put the new version into a plugin
08:40 Casan El_Che: /Users/casan/Desktop both in default projects directory preference, and as main directory in main_directory_root in advanced
08:40 Sewi fenderson: Maybe :)
08:41 El_Che Casan: that is not a directory that Padre will recognize as a project. Open now a file in a code project?
08:41 fenderson yup
08:41 El_Che the project layout should appear now
08:41 fenderson now its working without --die
08:42 fenderson but still i didnt figure out how to use the todo
08:42 fenderson do we have a test case on that?
08:42 Sewi fenderson: --die only shows the errors if they occur, it doesn't change anything else. I use it always.
08:43 fenderson Sewi: ohh ok thanks for the lesson :)
08:44 szabgab If I recall back then I though it should be a plugin and not at all in core, and only if after some time (weeks, months?) we see it as a good feature then to move it to core, at least that's how I'd like to work on features so we don't just add more and more to core, but I don't want to come through as acomplete asshole either, so move this from the plugin to core but from now on, I'd like to ask you to tell others that new features need to be discussed fir
08:44 szabgab t
08:44 Casan El_Che: ok, however it kinda breaks the use case for me. I'm using Padre both for non perl and perl projects, where the non-perl projects are often just text files.
08:44 szabgab Sewi: ^^^
08:44 El_Che Casan: in that Case, I "broke" it :(
08:45 fenderson so how is it works, the todo i mean
08:45 fenderson i cant figure it out
08:45 El_Che Casan: before, the project browser was stuck at ~/Documents (at least in Ubuntu) until you opened a project. *even* when the default dire in preferences was different (~/Code in my case)
08:45 fenderson i wrote #TODO 1 /n #TODO 2
08:45 fenderson than what
08:46 fenderson then*
08:46 El_Che Casan: now, it starts in the dir specified in preferences
08:46 Casan Wish We had the project/file browser split up in two.. 1 which is for real  projects of whatever type, and the other part is a normal file browser. that should make it possible to separate the too and apply context relevant logic to each type.
08:46 El_Che Casan: but because it's often not a project dir, but a dir with projects, it looks empty
08:46 El_Che Casan: I agree
08:47 El_Che In short you were relying on a bug and not a feature (I's easily undone, though)
08:48 Sewi szabgab: Sorry, I didn't want to annoy you, just asking how it should be done.
08:49 Sewi Casan: Workaround: place a padre.yml file in your home dir (or where everything resides)
08:50 Casan Sewi: I tried that already, let me just take a look again.
08:53 waxhead joined #padre
08:53 jazzanova left #padre
08:53 szabgab Sewi: no problem
08:54 szabgab I am just getting more and more afraid about the future of padre
08:54 szabgab also I'd like to start seeing people writing interesting plugins to padre that are not really editor related
08:55 szabgab and I think your feature could go to something much bigger than an editor would need
08:55 szabgab but that could be very useful for many people
08:56 szabgab #543
08:56 Hyppolit #543: gui for grep and ack (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/543 ]
08:56 szabgab Sewi: see that ticket
08:58 jazzanova joined #padre
08:58 waxhead hi everyone
08:59 Sewi Do you want the module to create grep/ack tools or do you want a grep/ack gui?
08:59 Sewi Hi waxhead
08:59 Casan hi waxhead
09:00 waxhead szabgab, what are you worried about ?
09:00 El_Che hi waxhead
09:00 * waxhead goes back log
09:00 waxhead hey Casan, El_Che
09:01 Sewi waxhead: Are you on Facebook? Would you like to copy the release announcements to the Padre page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Padre-the-Perl-IDE
09:01 waxhead yeah I'm on facebook
09:01 waxhead go figure, Padre has a facebook page!
09:01 waxhead LOL!!
09:02 Sewi szabgab: Someone spammed a medicine commercial on the links page of the Padre page, would you remove that?
09:02 fenderson ...
09:02 fenderson szabgab:
09:03 waxhead Sewi, so what's with the filter through perl plugin?
09:03 fenderson tell me do we have a test case on how to use To-do
09:03 fenderson ?
09:03 * waxhead is doing some admin work at home..
09:04 Sewi szabgab: Plugins might be more popular if they would be able to add menu options where they're in context and not merge everything_which_is_not_core in tools
09:05 waxhead Casan, I agree about the directory browser...
09:05 Hyppolit #543: gui for grep and ack (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/543#comment:1 ]
09:05 Casan Sewi: true that, I would love to see the git/svn/vcs plugins integrated in a project/file browser.. like tortoiseSVN.
09:08 szabgab Sewi: I started that route with the git plugin that I think is added to the right-click menu
09:08 Casan waxhead: Imagine this, and let me know what you think.. both the project and the file browser are separate components (core or plugins). they can be enabled/disabled. when enabled they are displayed in the browser pane, in their own panes, one on top of the other.
09:09 szabgab but I am not sure as it was a year or so ago and was very experimental
09:10 waxhead Casan, hmm.. couldn't that be a little confusing having both like that?
09:10 Sewi Casan: don't like that, because a) most of the source would be duplicate b) only one of the panes would be useful/used at the same time.
09:10 szabgab Sewi: so it would be nice to improve the plugin api to allow plugins to register other menu items, not only the ones under Tools/
09:11 waxhead couldn't the project intuition indicate a project so swap the components as needed?
09:11 Sewi Better auto-switch the project browset to directory browser mode if there is no project and add an option (bottom of the pane, for example) to manually switch back if you're in a project
09:11 waxhead Sewi, agreed...
09:12 waxhead when I'm using Visual Studio the project browser is just there and I don't expect it to do anything else other than let me poke about the project
09:12 waxhead however padre isn't quite the same, so my expectation has always been that the project browser was more like a filesystem browser....
09:12 szabgab Sewi: waxhead Casan whatever you come up with, could you please write a ticket and includ the description of the test-case that would be able to check the new feature?
09:13 Casan waxhead, sewi: please understand, that I look from the use case point of view, and very little from how the code is organised, helps me to abstract and look at how to optimise usability for use cases. I will try to write it down in a more complete overview.
09:13 waxhead I'm sure we can get it to do both based on the context of the file you are working on, ie project or 'simple' text file or script outside of a project
09:13 szabgab Sort of a MTDD
09:13 szabgab aka Manual TDD
09:14 szabgab That would allow other people to think and comment about the proposal
09:14 fenderson can anyone help me with the to-do list
09:14 Casan what I like to see, with the separation of the project and the file browser, is a project browser like visual studio, and a file browser for more manual stuff.
09:14 fenderson ?
09:14 Sewi fenderson: Did you add one or more TODO's and saved?
09:14 Casan szabgab: exactly, we need a joined effort on this.
09:15 fenderson yes
09:15 Sewi Do they show up on the TODO pane?
09:15 marcela joined #padre
09:15 fenderson yes
09:16 Sewi fenderson: you're done. Double-click on a todo in the pane to do it
09:16 fenderson i dont get it
09:16 fenderson Sewi:
09:16 Sewi It's simply a list of all TODOs. You could double click them to jump to their line
09:17 fenderson yea but it doesnt work
09:17 fenderson the list is not made
09:17 fenderson i have nothing in there
09:17 fenderson and i double clicked it
09:19 Sewi szabgab: I'd like to add a plugin_actions method to Padre::Plugin which should return a hash ref with action_name => code ref
09:19 Sewi those actions replace the core actions on enable and the core actions are restored on disable.
09:19 fenderson ...
09:20 Sewi This can't be done as a plugin ;-)
09:21 Sewi fenderson: Please check your settings if you got the default todo regex. Then go to Padre/Wx/TodoList.pm and look what it's doing. Try some debugging to find why it isn't working for you.
09:23 szabgab Sewi: and what will hapen if two or more plugins want to replace the same action?
09:24 waxhead fenderson, so you have only the one file open in Padre?
09:24 szabgab and why would we want to *replace* and action?
09:24 szabgab why not start by the capability to *add* an action
09:24 szabgab ?
09:25 Sewi We already add actions (as far as I remember). but we could solve parts of the menu problem using this. The grep/ack plugin could replace "File in Files" and the new perlfilter could replace the old one.
09:25 waxhead fenderson, that's interesting.. the list doesn't immediately appear..
09:26 Sewi It would make plugins more useful if extended feature versions could replace the smaller core versions without filling the menu too much
09:26 Sewi waxhead: You need to save.
09:26 Sewi fenderson: Wait a moment, please...
09:26 waxhead Sewi, so it seems..
09:26 waxhead even for a file with #TODO's in them
09:29 szabgab Sewi: but the grep/ack thing I wrote does not need to replace anything
09:29 szabgab it should IMHO, be a stand alone thing
09:29 Sewi szabgab: It's the same as "find in files", isn't it?
09:30 waxhead Sewi, there's two things on facebook for padre
09:30 waxhead group and a page
09:30 szabgab Sewi: it also looks for things in a file, but it is much more complex that what find-in-files offers
09:31 waxhead oh.. you know I noticed something today...
09:31 szabgab and probably it has a totally different use-case
09:31 waxhead chromatic's book also has a butterfly on it, bit like our blue one
09:31 daxim joined #padre
09:31 rindolf joined #padre
09:32 Hyppolit svn: r13877 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13877
09:32 Hyppolit Add a test file for the TODO list
09:32 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/xt/files/
09:32 Sewi fenderson: Please svn up and open xt/files/TODO_test.pm
09:33 Sewi fenderson: It should show you three items in the TODO list and you should be able to jump to each of them by double clicking.
09:33 Sewi fenderson: If this is working for you: Do you want to add it to the manual test list in wiki?
09:34 fenderson ok 1sec
09:35 fenderson yes that is why i'm doing it
09:35 fenderson i dont have that file
09:36 fenderson and i'm in xt/files
09:36 fenderson what do you mean by svn up?
09:36 waxhead fenderson, in your padre directory type
09:36 waxhead svn update
09:36 waxhead it will then update your local copy to what is in the repo
09:38 fenderson i'm doing it right now
09:38 fenderson it will take 1 min
09:38 fenderson ok i see it
09:38 fenderson padre crushed again
09:39 Sewi Any errors?
09:39 fenderson module
09:39 fenderson but that is wierd
09:39 fenderson its not on cpan
09:40 fenderson thats wx
09:40 fenderson and i know its there
09:40 fenderson should i try apt-get?
09:40 fenderson or synaptic?
09:41 fenderson its not on synaptic
09:42 fenderson its not on google
09:43 fenderson all that i could find is that link
09:43 fenderson http://search.cpan.org/dist/Wx/lib/Wx/​Loader.pod#Full_Custom_Loader_Example
09:49 Casan Sewi, waxhead, do you have a few minutes to share some thoughts on the project|file browser concept
09:52 Sewi Casan: Go ahead
09:53 Sewi fenderson: Try to track down where it's used. Maybe it's a call error
09:53 fenderson ok i'll use find in files
09:55 fenderson no result
09:55 fenderson thats wierd
09:55 Sewi the die doesn't give any file/line?
09:57 fenderson cant i paste here all the problems?
09:57 fenderson DIE: Can't locate Wx/Loader/Custom.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/azornik/padre/Padre/lib /home/azornik/padre/Padre/blib/lib /home/azornik/padre/Padre/../PPIx-EditorTools/lib /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /usr/local/lib/
10:06 jazzanova left #padre
10:06 Sewi fenderson: Please use one of the paste services shown in the channel's title bar.
10:08 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/sIp8SZ
10:08 fenderson ?
10:08 fenderson like that?
10:08 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/Pjx3tG
10:08 fenderson the second one
10:08 Sewi like that, but it seems to be empty
10:08 Sewi ok
10:09 fenderson my first time using it
10:09 fenderson sry
10:09 fenderson sorry*
10:09 Sewi no problem.
10:09 Sewi did you read that error message? I mean, the whole one?
10:10 fenderson i think i should do -l
10:10 fenderson something like that
10:10 fenderson cause it tried to find wx module in inc
10:10 fenderson right?
10:11 Sewi go ahead reading
10:14 Sewi fenderson: Did you notice that line? DIE: Unmatched [ in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/( [ <-- HERE { " '/ at /home/azornik/padre/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/TodoList.pm line 251.
10:14 fenderson yea
10:14 fenderson last paragraph
10:14 fenderson but i dont know what does it mean
10:15 fenderson wait i'll open TodoList.pm
10:15 Sewi First of all it means that a regex which is being processed in line 251 of this pm has a opening [ but no matching closing ]
10:15 Sewi I think you modified the default TODO regex in the settings and the new one has this bug.
10:15 Sewi but TodoList.pm shouldn't crash Padre on this.
10:16 fenderson i dont know how to modifie
10:16 fenderson can i change it again
10:16 fenderson to default
10:17 Sewi If you got a few minutes, please stop TodoList.pm from crashing on false regex. I don't know your Perl knowledge, do you have an idea how to do this?
10:17 Maltus joined #padre
10:18 fenderson i know regex
10:18 fenderson but i dont know if i could do it, can i dmg it by trying?
10:19 Sewi Do you know eval?
10:19 Sewi Sure, you could damage it up to something which would prevent Padre from starting up :) But you could/should fix that before committing :)
10:20 fenderson XD
10:20 fenderson i know eval
10:20 fenderson but there is no regex there config action
10:22 szabgab Sewi: he won't commit it directly anyway, he would open a ticket with the bug he found
10:22 szabgab and then attach the diff to it so we can comment
10:22 Sewi line 251 is while ($text =~ /$regexp/gim) here
10:23 szabgab Sewi++
10:23 fenderson szabgab:
10:23 szabgab Sewi++
10:23 fenderson i found the method
10:23 Sewi szabgab: ok :-)
10:23 szabgab Sewi++
10:23 szabgab just in case :)
10:24 Sewi fenderson: I suggest you wrap it into an eval block and check if it crashed. A eval crash should show an error message but not crash Padre.
10:26 Maltus is now known as Minus
10:26 Minus is now known as Maltus
10:28 fenderson yea i know
10:29 fenderson eval should prevent padre from crashing
10:29 fenderson only if the problem is in eval
10:29 fenderson right?
10:29 Sewi yes
10:31 fenderson so should i open a ticket or try to fix it
10:31 fenderson or both
10:31 Sewi both
10:32 Sewi But maybe first try to fix it as it could be done within some minutes and someone else might start the same work if you open the ticket first.
10:37 szabgab we need ticket, with detailed (!) description on how to reach the bug
10:37 szabgab that can later copied to the test cases
10:37 szabgab but as Sewi said you can first try to fix it
10:37 fenderson the problem is in line 251
10:37 fenderson is blanked
10:38 fenderson line 250 : $self->aui->lock_panels( $config->main_lockinterface );
10:38 fenderson my $config   = $ide->config;
10:38 fenderson sub new  my $ide = shift;
10:39 Sewi You're in TodoList.pm, right?
10:39 fenderson where do sub new gets the parameters
10:39 fenderson yes
10:40 Sewi line 251 is in sub refresh here. It's "while ($text =~ /$regexp/gim) {"
10:40 fenderson i dont have it
10:41 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/wsxIDc that is line 249-255
10:42 Sewi You're in Main.pm
10:43 Sewi Please open /home/azornik/padre/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/TodoList.pm and go to line 251
10:43 fenderson no
10:43 fenderson wait
10:43 Sewi The line "# Lock the panels if needed" is line 278 in Padre/Wx/Main.pm
10:44 fenderson ok i'm there
10:45 Sewi do you see the while ( regex) ?
10:45 Maltus left #padre
10:45 fenderson wait
10:45 fenderson i think i know what is the problem
10:45 fenderson i cant bleave it
10:45 fenderson and i'm so new at this
10:45 fenderson lol
10:46 Sewi What do you think is the problem?
10:46 Maltus joined #padre
10:46 fenderson the push is not working right? cause i dont get it...
10:46 Sewi The problem is in line 251
10:46 fenderson you have the line { text => $1}
10:46 Sewi I don't see a push there
10:46 fenderson line 252
10:47 Sewi Yeah, but this is never touched.
10:47 fenderson listen
10:47 fenderson $1
10:47 fenderson is when you use () in regex
10:47 fenderson right?
10:47 Sewi Padre died in line 251, so line 252 isn't reached
10:47 Sewi yes,it is
10:47 fenderson there is no () in the regex
10:47 fenderson in line 251
10:48 Sewi Sure, it is
10:48 fenderson where?
10:48 Sewi Add a line "print $regexp" before line 251 and run Padre.
10:49 fenderson ...
10:50 fenderson thats what i got print $regexp
10:50 fenderson ( [ { "
10:50 fenderson ( [ { " '
10:50 fenderson the second one
10:50 Sewi Now please write perl -le '/( [ { "/'
10:51 Sewi We'll skip the last ' for the moment as it would confuse the command line
10:51 fenderson ..
10:51 fenderson only perl -le '/( [ { " '/'
10:51 fenderson ohh so only perl -le '/( [ { "/'
10:52 Sewi yes
10:52 fenderson Unmatched [ in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/( [ <-- HERE  { "/ at -e line 1.
10:52 Sewi You'll run the regex you just printed on $_ which is ok for tesing.
10:52 Sewi Seems you got the error :)
10:52 fenderson yes
10:52 fenderson but
10:53 fenderson i still dont get the error
10:53 Sewi $regexp hold the actual regex - and the error is in the regex as it doesn't have any closing brackets.
10:53 fenderson ohh
10:54 Sewi But Padre shouldn't crash on it
10:54 fenderson padre should do the closing no?
10:54 Sewi No, it shouldn't change the regex at all, but it should catch the die.
10:54 fenderson it has a thing that should close it
10:54 fenderson so
10:54 Sewi yes, but only for the editor.
10:54 fenderson should i eval it?
10:54 fenderson so what should i do/ what can i do
10:55 Sewi You could just fix the regex, but someone else will run into the same crash sooner or later.
10:55 fenderson how can i fix it?
10:55 fenderson so first i write a ticket
10:55 Sewi If you eval like 251 (and maybe more lines than 251), Padre shouldn't crash
10:55 fenderson and write down what is the problem
10:55 Sewi It doesn't really matter if you write the ticket first or try to fix the problem first, it's up to you.
10:56 fenderson but todo feature will work?
10:56 Sewi If the regex is working? yes.
10:56 fenderson but if its on eval it means that the regex is not working
10:56 Sewi sure.
10:56 fenderson so how can i fix the regex
10:56 fenderson should i go to where it starts
10:56 Sewi Don't do this now.
10:56 fenderson and write the closing?
10:57 Sewi First make Padre don't crash on false regex.
10:57 fenderson ok
10:57 Sewi If this is working, then we'll look where and how to fix that regex.
10:57 Sewi If you simply fix that regex and someone else has a false regex, too, you won't help him - Padre will keep crashing.
10:58 Sewi This is why I ask you to handle that error in Padre before fixing the real error reason
10:59 fenderson its working
10:59 Sewi Would you paste your solution to mibpaste?
11:00 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/iHKA5y
11:01 Sewi Looks good, but I might close the eval earlier.
11:01 fenderson tried
11:01 fenderson didnt work
11:02 fenderson now how can i fix the problem
11:02 fenderson follow the regex path?
11:02 Sewi Where did you try to close it?
11:03 fenderson i didnt try yet
11:03 Sewi You just said you tried and it didn't work?
11:03 fenderson no
11:04 fenderson i think i wrote it by mistake XD
11:04 fenderson ohh
11:04 fenderson i wrote that i tried close the eval ealier
11:05 fenderson but it did not work
11:05 Sewi yes and where did you try to close it?
11:05 fenderson i think i should start writing full sentences
11:05 fenderson after the first while
11:05 fenderson after the second
11:05 fenderson and after the if
11:07 Sewi After the } of the first while or after the { of it?
11:08 fenderson after the }
11:08 fenderson should i try after the {
11:09 Sewi ok. eval is something special: it's a command like print and not a block like "while", so you need to put a ; after the closing } of eval
11:10 Sewi So it's eval { while (...) { ... } };
11:10 Sewi ... may be multiline
11:10 fenderson ohh i didnt know it
11:10 fenderson sorryu
11:10 fenderson sorry*
11:11 Sewi I  forget it myself from time to time :)
11:12 fenderson :)
11:12 Sewi Try it again, please
11:13 fenderson did
11:13 fenderson done
11:13 fenderson same result
11:14 Sewi same result = didn't work or does it work now?
11:14 fenderson works
11:14 fenderson before and after
11:15 Sewi ok, half way done.
11:16 Sewi Now we need to inform the user that something failed. Otherwise he'ld wait for the todo list and it'ld stay empty
11:16 Sewi Any idea?
11:17 fenderson how to inform?
11:17 fenderson mmm bug report?
11:17 rindolf Hi Sewi , fenderson
11:17 fenderson or should we open a window every time you do show todo list
11:17 fenderson hi rindolf
11:18 Sewi I think a simple popup window would be ok
11:18 rindolf fenderson: what's up?
11:18 Sewi Hi rindolf
11:18 rindolf Sewi: sup?
11:18 fenderson rindolf:  everything is great how about you?
11:18 rindolf fenderson: I'm fine.
11:19 fenderson Sewi: ok i have to use gtk2?
11:19 rindolf fenderson: did some refactoring of solitaire.pl
11:19 rindolf The Perl/SDL based Klondike.
11:19 fenderson rindolf: nice :)
11:19 Sewi fenderson: One moment please, got a phone call...
11:19 rindolf FROGGS still needs to help me with some magic constants.
11:19 fenderson XD what do you mean?
11:20 fenderson FROGGS is person?
11:20 rindolf fenderson: yes, on #sdl
11:20 rindolf And github.
11:20 Sewi fenderson: There is Padre::Main->error which does everything for us
11:20 fenderson ohh you're working with git?
11:20 rindolf fenderson: I don't know his real name.
11:20 rindolf fenderson: yes, that's what FROGGS uses there.
11:21 rindolf I think I prefer Mercurial though.
11:21 fenderson i love git
11:21 fenderson Sewi: anyway
11:21 rindolf fenderson: OK.
11:21 fenderson how do i use padre main
11:21 rindolf fenderson: I'm using git when I have to.
11:21 rindolf It could be much worse I guess.
11:21 rindolf But if I have the choice I use Mercurial or something.
11:21 fenderson rindolf: git is the best i know for now
11:21 rindolf Still have many projects in svn.
11:22 fenderson yea i dont like svn that much
11:22 Sewi fenderson: Search for "main" in the file and you'll see line about 286 using $self->main
11:22 rindolf One of the advantages of git is the popularity of github.
11:22 rindolf Mercurial has bitbucket.org but it seems much less vibrant.
11:23 Sewi Looks like we could use $self->main, too, so you should try that
11:23 charsbar__ left #padre
11:23 fenderson rindolf: i think i'll read about Mercurial today intresting
11:23 fenderson Sewi: ok i'll try it
11:23 rindolf fenderson: yes. :-)
11:23 rindolf fenderson: I learned what I know of hg bottom-up.
11:24 rindolf Like I do most programs at first.
11:25 fenderson Sewi: i'm there
11:25 fenderson thats the line ?: my $lock = $self->main->lock( 'UPDATE', 'DB', 'refresh_menu_plugins' );
11:25 Sewi Yes, it shows you that main is reachable below $self in this file.
11:26 charsbar__ joined #padre
11:26 Sewi Now go back to your eval and add a call to the error method of main below it. Pass an argument to it, maybe the eval crash error
11:26 fenderson didnt get it yet, how can i use it and make a pop up window
11:27 Sewi the error method of main does all this for you
11:27 fenderson so i copy that line
11:27 fenderson to the eval
11:27 Sewi hmm, I don't think this would be good.
11:27 Sewi No need to call lock there.
11:27 Sewi Try $self->main->error("foo");
11:28 fenderson ok
11:28 fenderson and where can i write it, how do eval msg works
11:28 fenderson eval (code block); 'msg'?
11:29 Sewi Start testing the popup first, please.
11:29 fenderson i have to read again about eval
11:29 Sewi put the ->error call below the eval { };
11:30 fenderson not working
11:30 fenderson and i know why
11:30 fenderson i dont have $self
11:30 Sewi Please paste the lines
11:31 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/Dno9fx
11:32 Sewi Sorry, I meant the lines around 270
11:32 Sewi maybe something like 250 to 280
11:32 charsbar__ left #padre
11:33 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/N916AN
11:33 charsbar__ joined #padre
11:34 Sewi Oh, sorry, I thought you moved the eval block end }; just behind the while block
11:34 fenderson should i?
11:35 Sewi yes, please :)
11:35 fenderson you mean after the first while block(start) or where it ends
11:36 Sewi where the first while block ends
11:36 fenderson done
11:36 fenderson but still
11:36 fenderson i have no scalar named self in that code block
11:37 Sewi http://paste.org/pastebin/view/29587
11:37 Sewi line 6 in this paste
11:39 fenderson done
11:39 fenderson nothing changed
11:39 Sewi Still the same error?
11:39 fenderson yes
11:40 fenderson and its understandable
11:40 fenderson i'm using $self
11:40 fenderson but i there is not $self in that code block
11:40 Sewi it is, in line 218
11:45 fenderson he's asking for package name
11:45 Sewi the eval }; and ->error moved to line 6/7 of the paste
11:45 fenderson cuz he dont recognize it
11:45 Sewi Paste it, please
11:46 fenderson line 6\7?
11:46 Sewi the eval, the ->error and some few lines around it
11:47 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/b2y6zK
11:47 Casan left #padre
11:49 Sewi looks good for me
11:49 fenderson yea for me 2
11:49 fenderson but why doesnt know $self
11:50 Sewi don't know for now, but I'll try it here...
11:53 Sewi works for me
11:54 fenderson wow thats wired
11:54 fenderson can you paste it for me
11:54 fenderson so i'll paste it over here and try?
11:56 Hyppolit svn: r13878 | Sewi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13878
11:56 Hyppolit Temporary commit for testing
11:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
11:57 Sewi svn update and try it again, please
11:58 fenderson ok
11:58 fenderson Select: (p) postpone, (df) diff-full, (e) edit,         (mc) mine-conflict, (tc) theirs-conflict,         (s) show all options:
11:58 fenderson what should i do
11:58 fenderson that is the line before : Conflict discovered in 'lib/Padre/Wx/TodoList.pm'.
11:58 Sewi try s and select "their full file"
11:59 fenderson perfect
11:59 Sewi It's because I added your fix and you changed the same file before
11:59 fenderson but the pop up is when you open padre
12:00 Sewi It's when the TODO list is being processed.
12:00 Sewi But it's working now - this is what we were looking for.
12:00 fenderson dont we need the window to pop up only after pressing show todo list
12:00 fenderson ohh ok
12:01 Sewi Now you only need to change it so it's only shown when the eval failed.
12:01 fenderson but only for the first time
12:01 fenderson when eval fails what parameter he gives back
12:01 fenderson do you know?
12:02 Sewi rtfm :)
12:02 Sewi Check perlfunc for the eval documentation
12:02 fenderson rtfm stands for?
12:02 fenderson ok
12:02 fenderson :)
12:03 Sewi rtfm means "read the documentation". It's a short version of "read the f****ing manual" :-)
12:03 szabgab Sewi: f= fine
12:03 Sewi szabgab: Thanks :)
12:03 rindolf fabulous
12:03 fenderson XD
12:03 rindolf fragmented.
12:03 rindolf foreign.
12:04 rindolf fantastic.
12:04 rindolf fenderson
12:04 Sewi something some of them :)
12:04 fenderson yea my brother told me this
12:04 rindolf Read the fine, man!
12:04 fenderson its not fine XD
12:05 rindolf http://www.advogato.org/person​/shlomif/diary.html?start=215 - JATFM
12:09 szabgab I still would like fenderson to open a ticket and explain how to crash padre with this bug
12:09 fenderson if there is a problem in eval
12:09 fenderson the value will be undef
12:09 fenderson thats what i got, is it right?
12:09 Sewi Did you read perlfunc?
12:10 fenderson perldoc.perl.org
12:13 Sewi Did you read everything or at least everything until the first samples?
12:15 fenderson yes
12:15 fenderson and i have to do no warning
12:15 fenderson dont know why, but also if eval works with no problem the value will be empty string
12:15 fenderson did i get it right?
12:16 Sewi Which value?
12:17 fenderson '\
12:17 fenderson ?
12:17 fenderson if eval has problem it will give back an undef value
12:17 fenderson else it will give back an empty string
12:17 szabgab maybe that's the point where fenderson should write some simple perl scripts - not part of padre - to test how eval works
12:17 Sewi good idea.
12:18 Sewi fenderson: Do you remember the perl -le we did earlier?
12:18 szabgab Sewi:  I meant script not one-liner :)
12:18 fenderson yes
12:18 Sewi szabgab: Sure, but it was a case of a failing eval, so it's a good start :)
12:19 szabgab ok
12:19 szabgab Sewi++
12:19 szabgab karma Sewi
12:19 Hyppolit Karma of Sewi is 1080
12:19 Sewi fenderson: Use that regex we used there and put it into a simple perl script.
12:19 |Sno| joined #padre
12:19 Sewi Run it and it's supposed to crash perl (like it does in Padre and it did in our test earlier)
12:20 Sewi Now add prints before and after that line to see how far the script is running. Run it and it's still supposed to crash, so I'ld expect to see the first print and the error message, but not the second print.
12:21 Sewi fenderson, szabgab, do you agree until now?
12:24 Sno| left #padre
12:25 fenderson something not working
12:26 szabgab Sewi: sound like a good path
12:26 Sewi fenderson: What isn't working?
12:27 fenderson nothing... i cant get it to run
12:27 fenderson not even the first print
12:28 Sewi any errors?
12:28 fenderson azornik@azornik:~/Desktop$ perl Untitled\ Document\ 2 Bad name after hio' at Untitled Document 2 line 3.
12:29 fenderson azornik@azornik:~/Desktop$ perl Untitled\ Document\ 2                                         Bad name after hio' at Untitled Document 2 line 3.
12:29 Sewi Paste the file, please
12:29 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/Vpxewc
12:31 Hyppolit #1143: Recent file list is late by one file (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1143 ]
12:31 Sewi fenderson: Sorry, please paste the file, I think it's called "Untitled document 2"
12:35 fenderson http://mibpaste.com/lOt3gq
12:37 Sewi Remove this from line 2: '/
12:37 Sewi And replace this $document->text_get by something constant like "foo bar"
12:38 Sewi no, wait a moment, please
12:38 fenderson Unmatched ( in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m//{( <-- HERE "/ at Untitled Document 2 line 6.
12:38 fenderson remember that?
12:39 Sewi Try this as your test file: http://goo.gl/4AOtI
12:40 Sewi Run it and you should get the first print and the error message
12:42 fenderson same thing
12:42 fenderson you run it like this? : perl 'name of the file'
12:42 fenderson ?
12:43 Sewi yes
12:43 Sewi same thing as which one?
12:44 fenderson Unmatched [ in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/( [ <-- HERE  { "/ at Untitled Document 2 line 2.
12:46 Sewi good
12:49 Sewi Now use eval to get both prints
12:56 fenderson no luck
13:03 szabgab fenderson: maybe you should read an introductory book about Perl
13:03 szabgab that explains keywords like eval\
13:05 * szabgab is very grumpy as he needs to install kdesvn on suse 11 and it hatse the dependency hell of these corporate linux distros
13:09 fenderson maybe
13:09 fenderson to refresh my memory
13:10 szabgab fenderson: could you please file the bug report for what you found?
13:10 szabgab but maybe read this: http://www.chiark.greenend.​org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html before you report the bug
13:11 fenderson ys
13:11 Casan joined #padre
13:11 fenderson yes
13:38 Hyppolit left #padre
13:39 Sewi Trunk is now clean again
13:39 Sewi szabgab: Hyppolit died :-(
13:46 fenderson lo
13:46 fenderson lol
13:47 szabgab Sewi: clean of what?
13:47 Hyppolit joined #padre
13:47 Sewi szabgab: I did a temporary commit earlier showing fenderson something.
13:47 szabgab I remember
13:47 Sewi It's cleared now.
13:48 szabgab you mean you put the bug back? :)
13:48 szabgab oh I see now the chane
13:48 szabgab change
13:49 szabgab great, though probably we should also check if at the time when the user enters the regex
13:49 Sewi No, I fixed it. I didn't want to do that but let fenderson do it, but as it's taking longer than I expected, I finally did it myself.
13:50 fenderson so you fixed it?
13:50 szabgab yeah, I understand that
13:50 szabgab I was just hopiong that fenderson will at least open a ticket
13:50 Sewi I think he'll do it
13:51 szabgab fenderson: it is nice that you found an actual bug that was crashing padre so fenderson++
13:51 fenderson so should i go on?
13:51 fenderson lol thanks :)
13:51 szabgab fenderson: go on opening the ticket, yes please
13:51 fenderson and i learned something from that
13:51 Sewi fenderson: I added your credits to the Changes file
13:51 fenderson and also learned alot from Sewi
13:51 szabgab r13879
13:51 Hyppolit Changeset #13879 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13879
13:51 fenderson Sewi++
13:51 szabgab 'cause Hyppolit is silent
13:52 szabgab fenderson: have you read the articleI linked to?
13:52 Sewi fenderson: The real source of your problem is the regex in settings -> todo regex. Set it back to default and everything is fine. But you should keep on solving that eval issue yourself
13:52 fenderson started
13:53 fenderson ok i'll do(the eval part)
13:53 fenderson but
13:53 fenderson how can i set it back to default
13:53 fenderson i think when i updated from svn last time it set it back
13:53 fenderson right?
13:56 szabgab I think the advanced configuration window let's you do that
13:57 fenderson how do i get into the advanced configuration window
13:58 fenderson is it in padre?
13:59 Sewi tools->settings -> middle button at the bottom
13:59 Sewi filter: todo
14:00 Sewi Click the todo_regexp and then click reset. Save and you're done
14:01 szabgab Sewi: I would be so happy if after reading your short description fenderson would take it and create a test case out of it
14:02 fenderson Sewi:
14:02 szabgab just on ow to change and reset the regex of the todo
14:02 fenderson there is no setting
14:02 szabgab *how
14:02 Sewi szabgab: (10:34:44) Sewi: fenderson: If this is working for you: Do you want to add it to the manual test list in wiki?
14:03 Sewi fenderson: Where are you?
14:03 Sewi which dialog?
14:03 fenderson on padre
14:03 szabgab it is Tools/Preferences
14:03 szabgab not settings
14:04 fenderson what middle button at the bottom?
14:04 szabgab fenderson: just try all of them
14:04 szabgab any of them
14:05 Sewi szabgab: Sorry, I'm using Padre in german and don't always know the correct english translations :(
14:05 fenderson there is padre in german
14:05 fenderson cool XD
14:05 fenderson :D
14:06 fenderson i'm on Tools/Preferences looking for something like filter: todo
14:07 kaare left #padre
14:08 Sewi fenderson: There is an expert button at the bottom between save and abort
14:09 szabgab Sewi: I guessed that that is what happened :)
14:12 fenderson advanced
14:12 fenderson between save and cancel
14:12 fenderson ok i searched
14:13 fenderson and there are 4 results for todo
14:13 fenderson regexp
14:13 fenderson main_todo
14:13 fenderson keyboard_...view_todo
14:13 fenderson keyboard_..window_goto_todo_window
14:15 szabgab fenderson: I am sure you will be able to find the right one *alone* as well
14:16 Sewi szabgab: Real hard job, mostly because I wrote it already :-)
14:18 fenderson done
14:29 asarch joined #padre
14:29 Sewi Hi asarch
14:29 asarch Hi Sewi
14:29 asarch :-)
14:29 asarch How are you?
14:31 jnap joined #padre
14:33 andi joined #padre
14:36 andi Hi! Just want to leave a beginner's coment for szabgab: I got really confused when the help browser suddenly did not pop up when hitting F2 or via menu. It took me some time to realize that it was because it was already open but did not get an own task button in windows taskbar.
14:37 andi so please consider two things: a) bring help browser to front when invoked and b) give it a task button ;)
14:37 Sewi thanks andi, it should come to foreground when it's open and you hit F2
14:37 Sewi Do you want to open a ticket for this?
14:38 andi not sure
14:38 andi i just realize that it does come to foreground
14:38 andi (after a restart of padre)
14:38 andi have to reproduce what happened first...
14:39 Sewi ok
14:42 andi maybe the help window just went off-screen..... i'm working with 2 monitors and sometimes via RDP
14:43 Sewi yeah, dual screen support is bad. Same on windows and linux :-(
14:43 toi joined #padre
14:46 szabgab Sewi: get andi file abug report so we can hand some more task to (andi, him or her?)
14:46 Sewi szabgab: I tried :-) But it might not be a Padre but a OS but.
14:48 andi him :)
14:48 szabgab I think I'll start writing h*   it is shorter and more ambigous :)
14:48 Sewi :)
14:50 dapatrick joined #padre
15:04 kaare joined #padre
15:26 PerlJam left #padre
15:27 PerlJam joined #padre
15:29 jnap left #padre
15:30 jnap joined #padre
15:34 pece left #padre
15:38 jnap_ joined #padre
15:40 jnap left #padre
15:40 jnap_ is now known as jnap
15:45 andi I also guess it's an os issue
15:45 toi left #padre
15:46 andi but the existence of a task bar button for help browser would at least indicate that the help window is open anywhere
15:46 Sewi andi: You could still have a trac account for further bug reports
15:46 Sewi We're giving them away for free. :-)
15:47 andi ok, I'll take one
15:47 Sewi szabgab: Maybe we should charge something for them, people sometime like things more if they cost something :-)
15:47 andi as it would enable me to request features as well ;)
15:48 Sewi register?
15:48 Hyppolit register is http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register
15:48 Sewi andi: Please use this link for registering
15:49 andi allright, I'm in
15:50 Sewi ok
15:51 andi ah, my feature is allready on the list - http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1083
15:51 Sewi andi: Do you want to add it?
15:52 andi if I was proficient enough, I would. need to learn more on perl first.... bloody beginner....
15:53 andi how are debugger kbd shortcuts supposed to work btw?
15:53 Sewi I think you could press the key without any modifier (Shift|Strg|Alt)
15:54 andi then it will type straight into the editor
16:03 Di-ima left #padre
16:09 Sewi Sorry, I don't know. Maybe szabgab could help, I think he wrote the debugger...
16:12 Hyppolit svn: r13880 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/13880
16:12 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
16:12 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
16:34 Di-ima joined #padre
16:44 andi ok, there are no kbd shortcuts set by default. tools->keybindings will do that (and preferences->advanced, but this one takes effect after restart only)
16:44 Sewi Do you want to create a page in the trac wiki for the debugger?
16:48 andi what should I put there?
16:48 andi how to set keybindings?
16:48 Sewi for example
16:49 andi wouldn't a FAQ section be better?
16:50 Sewi maybe
16:57 andi ok, added a beginner's faq
17:02 Sewi Oh, the debugger isn't beginner stuff, all kind of peopel ask questions about it
17:05 andi what about "Beginners of Padre"?
17:06 Sewi also good :)
17:06 Sewi It's all up to you, you're writing it
17:16 toi joined #padre
17:17 marcela left #padre
17:41 pece joined #padre
17:46 daxim left #padre
17:52 Maltus left #padre
18:01 dodathome joined #padre
18:36 Jagdwurst joined #padre
19:03 Casan left #padre
19:04 jnap_ joined #padre
19:04 jnap left #padre
19:04 jnap_ is now known as jnap
19:05 kaare_ joined #padre
19:07 kaare left #padre
20:14 kaare_ is now known as kaare
20:14 Casan joined #padre
20:16 pece left #padre
20:17 Jagdwurst left #padre
21:10 asarch left #padre
21:30 Steffen joined #padre
21:41 dodathome left #padre
21:43 rindolf left #padre
21:55 jnap left #padre
21:58 toi left #padre
22:27 dapatrick left #padre
22:51 kaare left #padre
23:04 Steffen left #padre
23:12 jnap joined #padre
23:13 Sewi left #padre
23:13 Sewi joined #padre
23:16 jnap left #padre
23:18 Casan left #padre
23:18 jnap joined #padre
23:19 Sewi left #padre
23:20 jnap left #padre
23:22 Di-ima left #padre
23:33 Di-ima joined #padre

| Channels | #padre index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary