Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2011-05-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:26 Hyppolit svn: r14336 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14336
02:26 Hyppolit Completed working wxFormBuilder replacement for the bookmark dialog
02:26 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/t/
02:26 Alias One more dialog down
02:27 Hyppolit svn: r14337 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14337
02:27 Hyppolit Purging the original bookmark dialog
02:27 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
02:28 Hyppolit svn: r14338 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14338
02:28 Hyppolit Renaming Bookmarks2 to be the primary Bookmarks module
02:28 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
02:29 Hyppolit svn: r14339 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14339
02:29 Hyppolit Renaming Bookmarks2 to be the primary Bookmarks module
02:29 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/
02:34 Hyppolit svn: r14340 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14340
02:34 Hyppolit Removed superfluous inclusion of Padre::Wx::Dialog
02:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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02:56 Hyppolit svn: r14341 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14341
02:56 Hyppolit - Shrunk the code needed to support the "Convert Encoding" commands and
02:56 Hyppolit moved it to Padre::Wx::Main, removing the need for a dedicated
02:56 Hyppolit "Convert Encoding" dialog (ADAMK)
02:56 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Role/
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03:16 Hyppolit svn: r14342 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14342
03:16 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
03:16 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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04:38 bsalem Padre from Ubuntu repository fails after CPAN shell update on Ubuntu 10.10 error: DBD::SQLite::db do failed: attempt to write a readonly database at (eval 163) line 442.
04:39 cfedde the installer mucked up some permissions.
04:40 bsalem Padre is 0.63 there was permission denied to cp My.pm to my local dirs, then SQLlite failure. Can I recover? I has Padre working then had to update some modules
04:41 bsalem Sorry I meant to say "had Padre running"
04:42 bsalem I think that Padre:: modules got out of sync with that version, reinstalling did not help.
04:43 bsalem Can I uninstall modules from CPAN on my system? Not a perl expert.
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05:08 Alias Try padre --reset
05:08 Alias But if that's a file you don't have permissions to write to, you might not be able to reset it either
05:08 Alias sudo padre --reset maybe
05:09 Alias sudo chown -R you.you ~/.padre
05:10 Alias I think maybe the test suite hasn't isolated it's working directory properly, has written over your personal config with root permissions, and now you can't edit your own config
05:10 Alias We probably shouldn't make --reset launch Padre in that case, just kill off the config and exit
05:10 Alias So you can --reset as root without it making a whole new set of things you can't write to
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05:25 szabgab Alias: I think bsalem has already quit the channel
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05:27 Alias oh
05:27 Alias But my point stands
05:27 Alias There's no way to use Padre itself to repair accidental pollution of your config
05:27 Alias We should make --reset clear out stuff, and then exit
05:31 cfedde it would also be nice if padre did not require a threaded perl.
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05:32 Alias As luck would have it, I recently refactored the Task Manager so that it is possible to implement a non-threaded task manager instead of the default threaded one
05:32 Alias Padre now no longer assumes threads
05:32 Alias It's only the default implementation of the Padre::TaskManager that does
05:33 Alias If you would care to write an alternative TaskManager that uses processes or something, you're welcome to
05:33 Alias I really should write a FAQ for that
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05:42 cfedde I'll probably take the admin's path and change my perlbrew to install a threaded perl.
05:42 Alias What's I'd love would be some kind of /opt/padre package
05:43 Alias Which would be a perlbrew'ish install, with Wx and Padre on top etc.
05:43 cfedde sure.  I've pretty much gotten over my concern about a different perl for each app.
05:43 Alias It would help drive some improvements to Padre we've never gotten around to
05:44 Alias Padre doesn't REALLY understand the difference atm between the Perl that is running it, and the Perl that the user is writing against
05:46 Alias Having a popular /opt/padre package would help with that enormously
05:46 cfedde or at least a convenient one.  popularity can come later.
05:47 Alias Right
05:47 cfedde there would have to be some bootstrapping inversion to do it with CPAN-ish build.
05:47 Alias But something real that would force development of that area
05:48 Alias I always thought that it couldn't really be much more complex than the Strawberry build
05:48 cfedde no.  With strawberry the assumption is that you are building perl itself.
05:48 Alias But then I only maintain one big build system on Unix
05:48 cfedde With padre the assumption is that you are building a module for some perl.
05:48 Alias Same with Strawberry
05:49 cfedde s/no//
05:49 Alias C Compiler -> C Libs -> Perl Itself -> Toolchain Modernisation -> CPAN modules -> custom-weird-shit
05:49 cfedde sure...
05:49 Alias Example, Padre Standalone for Windows is a sub-classed Perl::Dist::Strawberry
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05:50 Alias "Build Strawberry, then install Padre on top"
05:50 cfedde heh.
05:50 cfedde strawberry on linux.
05:50 Alias Well, more like Padre Standalone for Linux
05:51 Alias That said, Padre Standalone for Windows can't co-exist with Strawberry
05:51 cfedde sure. But if you're goning to have a perl down in your /opt/padre why not let it be a strawberry perl.
05:51 Alias Because Strawberry is Windows?
05:52 cfedde how hard would it be to make it multi-platform?
05:52 Alias Strawberry is the distro, the Perl inside it is bog standard
05:52 Alias We don't change the default Perl distro in any way
05:52 Alias And it would be impossible
05:52 Alias Perl::Dist::Strawberry is built on Perl::Dist::WiX
05:52 Alias It's very deeply tied to the production of a .msi installer
05:53 cfedde I guess I fell off the clue train somewhere.
05:53 cfedde sure enough.
05:53 Alias (We had no choice in that)
05:53 Alias And much of the logic is platform specific
05:53 cfedde sure enough.
05:53 Alias Knowing which C libraries build from scratch, packaging GCC correctly, and so on
05:53 Alias But the principle is the same
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05:54 Alias C Compiler Chain -> C Libs+headers -> Build Perl -> Upgrade CPAN.pm Toolchain -> Tailor CPAN Config -> Install from CPAN -> Dump on REALLY weird extras ->
05:54 Alias You could take the basic workflow from it
05:55 cfedde I get all that.
05:55 cfedde the key for me is understanding the Perl::Dist... stuff well enough to glue such a thing together.
05:56 Alias Maybe look at the older version
05:56 cfedde indeed.
05:56 Alias Perl::Dist::WiX is difficult to understand
05:56 Alias The old installer was easier
05:56 Alias Perl::Dist::Inno
05:56 Alias That should be a much better one to study
05:56 cfedde kk
05:56 Alias It's all laid out in one big module, largely in the right order
05:57 cfedde Perl::Dist::Padre
05:58 Alias right
05:58 Alias Perl::Dist::Padre isa Perl::Dist::Strawberry isa Perl::Dist::Vanilla isa Perl::Dist::WiX
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06:05 cfedde if made platform specific then Perl::Dist::Padre->Build(osname => linux) would just do the right thing. I'm inventing syntax here but maybe the idea is clear.
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06:10 Alias I'd so it a bit higher
06:10 Alias There's a Perl::Dist::Machine for building whole product families
06:10 Alias So you can build 7 or 8 variants at once
06:10 Alias Maybe it would be better done near that level
06:10 Alias Or yeah, we could do a Perl::Dist::Abstract to unify the API at least of the builders
06:10 Alias ->isa('Perl::Dist::Abstract')
06:10 Alias Or something
06:10 Alias Perl::Dist itself is probably already close to that point
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06:14 cfedde sure.  Well interesting thought experement.
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06:14 cfedde for some spelling of experiment.
06:16 Alias Yup
06:17 Alias Inevitably, nobody cares enough to actually commit to the 5k or so of code needed to do it for real
06:17 Alias Same problem on Mac
06:17 Alias The payoff just isn't there
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06:37 cfedde i debate a perlbrew type approach vs a Perl::Dist type approach.
06:38 Alias Both really
06:38 Alias Do the perlbrew, install Padre, tar up the results
06:38 Alias Oh, you mean script the install so OTHERS can perlbrew it?
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07:46 Alias Night all
07:47 Alias BTW, I'm down to the last two dialogs using Padre::Wx::Dialog (and thus ugly fixed positioning)
07:47 Alias So almost there as far as moving completely to proper looking dialogs
07:47 Alias Maybe the last three :)
07:47 Alias Module::Starter, Snippit Insert, and Special Insert
07:48 Alias Once these are done, we REALLY need to push for a release
07:48 Alias As I've got nothing to do other than start on the next big refactor :)
07:50 szabgab so we should now go over the feature list and se what is seriously broken
07:50 szabgab fix those and push out the release
07:50 szabgab or maybe do it in the other direction?
07:52 El_Che I would go for fix what's broken. We had many crashs lately
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08:25 waxhead evening all
08:25 szabgab you too was
08:25 waxhead how's padre looking for a release?
08:25 szabgab wax
08:26 szabgab Alias just finished ruining it
08:26 szabgab we should now do some heavy testing
08:26 szabgab and fix if we have major issues
08:28 waxhead sure...
08:28 waxhead I've upgraded my laptop to ubuntu 11.04, so need to get it setup again for Padre
08:28 waxhead might do a local::lib install this time...
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09:24 bowtie szabgab, ping
09:24 szabgab reping
09:24 bowtie szabgab, did I get the format correct?
09:26 szabgab bowtie: where ?
09:27 bowtie szabgab, ppi-editortools testing update
09:27 bowtie test files
09:28 szabgab have you looked at the diff ?
09:28 bowtie szabgab, yes before i uploaded
09:29 szabgab to mee it looks like there still is formatting change, right ?
09:29 bowtie szabgab, i ran the tidy pl as requested
09:30 szabgab let me check
09:30 szabgab if you revert all your changes and you run the tidy, does it make any changes on your computer?
09:31 bowtie szabgab, yes it modified all t files and others in ppi-editortools dir
09:32 szabgab bowtie: in the diff, of t/10-lexer.t the data was reformatted , I'd like to understand if the tidy behaves differently on your machine or not
09:32 szabgab bow so even before any changes the tidy thinks it has some work to do?
09:32 szabgab hmm
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09:33 bowtie szabgab, ok I will download another copy and test latter
09:33 szabgab another copy of what?
09:34 bowtie szabgab, ppi-editortools, clean location
09:34 szabgab ok
09:34 bowtie szabgab, ubuntu issues, do we have a deb, that needs to be updated?
09:34 szabgab we need to understand why does tidy work differently on your computer than on mine
09:35 szabgab bowtie: I am not sure why do you ask, are you an Ubuntu maintainer?
09:35 bowtie szabgab, I have same version as padre tidy, but i do have a local perltidyrc
09:35 szabgab our biggest issue is of course that Padre does not work out of the box on Ubuntu
09:36 szabgab bowtie: if you use the ../tools/tidy_project.pl it should use its own conf file
09:36 szabgab if not, we need to fix that
09:37 szabgab bowtie: and btw I prefer your formatting of those arrays, I just don't want things to go back and force
09:37 szabgab in the layout department
09:38 bowtie szabgab, Ubuntu maintainer no, but will to try to create a deb, and see if i can find issues on the way
09:38 szabgab I think the Ubuntu .debs are usually pulled from Debian
09:40 bowtie szabgab, have been reading, difference would mean a ubuntu on lauanchpad, if so 10.10 or just 11.04
09:41 El_Che hello
09:42 szabgab bowtie: as I can see the pacth is agains r14310 ?
09:42 Hyppolit Changeset #14310 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14310
09:42 bowtie szabgab, I have this modified Preferences.fbp, how to I give it back Alias as its 600k
09:43 szabgab bowtie: I don't know, ask him
09:44 szabgab El_Che: hi
09:46 bowtie szabgab, ok, I will get clean ppi-editortools, add changes, padre-tidy and re post t.diffs, if thats what you want?
09:47 szabgab bowtie: after you have the clean editortools run the tidy and let me know if it makes any changes
09:47 szabgab it should not
09:47 bowtie szabgab, i will latter today
09:47 szabgab if it does we will keep having issues with different tidy-ing
09:47 szabgab thanks
09:49 rindolf joined #padre
09:49 bowtie szabgab, regarding Ubuntu deb, which version? ticket or wiki for shared knowledge?
09:49 rindolf Hi all.
09:50 szabgab bowtie: I did not understand
09:52 bowtie szabgab, If i make a start on a ubuntu deb , which version of ubuntu, as 11.04 uses unity for menu?
09:55 szabgab bowtie:  I guess it depends what are you planning to put in that deb
09:55 szabgab but most likely the latest Ubuntu is the one that is interesting - if you want them to include in their repository
10:00 bowtie szabgab, a padre icon on the unity menu, by working my way through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
10:01 bowtie szabgab, knowledge base wiki or ticket?
10:01 szabgab bowtie: I don't understand, what are you asking? what is the problem?
10:03 bowtie szabgab, there is no problem, if i am to share the build deb process with others, critique, etc:...
10:04 szabgab bowtie: I still don't understand what deb do you want to build
10:05 szabgab I am qute sure the deb process is already documented well, so I wonder what added value would be for you to write it down again?
10:06 bowtie szabgab, i was offering to try to build a padre_all.deb to be put on lauanchpad, that is all, and doc process
10:07 szabgab oh, now I start to understand
10:07 szabgab what would that include? wx as well?
10:07 bowtie szabgab, ok, new question, do we want a padre_all.deb in LunchPad?
10:08 szabgab what problem will it solve?
10:09 bowtie szabgab, yes just one package and its dependencies,
10:10 bowtie szabgab, you ask why, to increase padre presences in linux, for newbees
10:12 szabgab will user be able to install the latest padre with (almost) one click?
10:13 szabgab I'd  start with the latest Ubuntu and I guess I'd just keep a wiki page about the process
10:13 bowtie szabgab, that would be the target
10:13 Sewi szabgab: Padre could be installed with one click as the debian installer satisfies dependencies itself.
10:13 szabgab in the end it should be a script that can build the deb alone
10:14 szabgab Sewi: yeah, though as I understand Ubuntu has broken wx - again
10:14 bowtie Sewi, i think so, to
10:14 Sewi A "padre_all" including the dependencies will mix up system Perl: There might be a Digest/MD5.pm from an Ubuntu package and Padre_all might overwrite it using an older version.
10:15 szabgab that' would not be too good :)
10:15 Sewi szabgab: We should pack a Wx package next to the Padre package and require our (newer) Wx version in padre.deb
10:16 szabgab probably
10:16 bowtie Sewi, the "all" is due to padre being a perl app, thus no compiler, just interpreted code
10:19 Sewi bowtie: Sure it is - this is the problem :)
10:19 Sewi We can't do a static compile and put it somewhere
10:21 bowtie Sewi, but is it worth looking at,
10:26 bowtie szabgab, preformed test on clean ppi-editortool, file t/10-lexer.t has no changes compared to trunk
10:27 bowtie Sewi, thanks for the everything is a project info, look in wiki for info about this but found none.
10:28 Sewi bowtie: You can't compile Padre, this is why you can't create a static compiled version.
10:28 bowtie Sewi, yes i agree,
10:29 szabgab bowtie: so then try to apply the changes but please avoid the style change
10:29 Sewi Creating padre_all.deb would mix up installed versions, either CPAN ones or Ubuntu ones
10:30 Sewi We need to upgrade the regular Ubuntu Padre package, it's still 0,.63
10:30 szabgab Skype has a version in Ubuntu but you can also install from their site
10:30 szabgab the one in Ubuntu is old and broken
10:30 szabgab the one on their site is less so
10:31 szabgab can we have smething similar ?
10:31 Sewi Sure why not?
10:31 szabgab oh and when I wanted to install the one from their site it said it conflicts with the one I have installed and I should remove it first
10:31 bowtie szabgab, got special dispensation to add to new menu bar as tough it was gnome pannel.
10:31 Sewi We could create a Padre.deb and put in into the Download folder. People could install it from there and we could push it to the Ubuntu repository if we get the chance
10:32 szabgab that's what I'd like to have
10:32 Sewi szabgab: As far as I understand: Ubuntu package system has two parts: A Downloader and a installer.
10:33 bowtie so, the objective is to end up in LaunchPad?
10:34 szabgab the objective is to make it easy for people to use the latest and breakest :)
10:36 bowtie szabgab, Q breakest
10:39 bowtie Sewi, can you test the attached file please and comment, http://padre.perlide.org/trac/​wiki/Features/ToolsPrefernces thanks
10:40 Sewi szabgab: I think Ubuntu people prefer the Ubuntu Software center, but a downloadable .deb file would also be cool.
10:41 Sewi Opera has this, too, it skips the ubuntu downloader ("apt" / "Software center") and just installs using the dependencies and uninstallation of old versions.
10:52 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/​wiki/Features/ToolsPrefernces changed by Sewi
10:58 bowtie Sewi, thanks, the alpha order is due to creation method, ie mkdir touch and tree, the other info, where can i find more regarding dependences
10:58 Sewi Makefile.PL
11:00 bowtie Sewi, no not Padre, but with reference to your critiques, re Tool Preferences
11:01 Sewi I don't understand the question, sorry
11:02 bowtie Sewi, your comments are great, where can i find more info regarding Tool Preferences
11:04 Sewi Within the perl files, I think
11:06 bowtie Sewi, your comments of which items go with which and why, but more of the same please
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12:15 azawawi joined #padre
12:15 azawawi hi *
12:15 azawawi Alias: ping
12:16 * azawawi finished reading two days worth of #padre logs...  :)
12:18 rindolf azawawi: hi, hi.
12:18 rindolf azawawi: BTW, would you be interested in going over the Arabic translation of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ and commenting?
12:18 azawawi rindolf: hey!
12:19 rindolf azawawi: I didn't do that translation - someone else did.
12:19 rindolf azawawi: what's up?
12:19 azawawi rindolf: great.. where is that link?
12:19 rindolf azawawi: I have not been in irc.perl.org for a long time.
12:19 rindolf azawawi: let me upload it.
12:21 rindolf azawawi: http://www.shlomifish.org/hhfg-arabic-f7wx2/
12:21 rindolf azawawi: thanks.
12:24 azawawi rindolf: it is cool... but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_diacritics is bad... :)
12:24 rindolf azawawi: ah.
12:24 rindolf azawawi: you mean the vowels, right?
12:24 rindolf azawawi: isn't it vowel-less?
12:25 azawawi rindolf: please read that link
12:25 rindolf azawawi: ah , OK.
12:25 azawawi rindolf: you can ofcourse remove alef with a simple one
12:25 rindolf azawawi: alef?
12:26 rindolf Alif?
12:26 azawawi rindolf: yup
12:26 rindolf azawawi: OK.
12:26 azawawi rindolf: language-wise it needs a bit of re-phrasing
12:26 rindolf azawawi: ah.
12:26 rindolf azawawi: let me see if I can dig his E-mail.
12:26 rindolf I think I have his MSN.
12:27 azawawi rindolf: it is readable though
12:28 azawawi rindolf: but has some grammatical translation mistakes
12:28 azawawi rindolf: you know the kind when you translate English to Hebrew...
12:29 * azawawi must learn hebrew soon
12:30 rindolf azawawi: ah, yes.
12:30 rindolf azawawi: Hebrew!
12:30 rindolf azawawi: שלום
12:31 rindolf azawawi: why do you need to learn Hebrew?
12:31 azawawi rindolf: العبرية
12:31 rindolf azawawi: yes, I can read that.
12:31 azawawi rindolf: i know :)
12:31 rindolf = "The Hebrew Language"
12:31 rindolf Aravi <-> Ivri.
12:32 rindolf azawawi: BTW, I've seen a nice Israeli sitcom in the Arabic language on the Israeli Channel 1.
12:33 rindolf azawawi: Israel generated some nice sitcoms in both Hebrew and/or Arabic.
12:33 azawawi rindolf: bummer... I only watch things available on satellite...
12:33 rindolf azawawi: ah.
12:33 rindolf azawawi: I think you can catch Channel 1 in the Amos Satellite.
12:33 azawawi rindolf: used to...
12:33 rindolf And it should be unencrypted.
12:34 rindolf azawawi: BTW, is Jordanian Arabic close to Palestinian Arabic?
12:34 azawawi rindolf: satellite unaligned a bit after last weather storms and im too lazy to fix it...
12:34 rindolf azawawi: ah.
12:35 rindolf azawawi: I only have cables.
12:35 azawawi rindolf: it is more or less the same except the northern/southern dialects
12:35 rindolf azawawi: ah.
12:36 rindolf OK, back to translating HHFG to Hebrew.
12:36 azawawi cool thanks
12:36 azawawi rindolf++
12:37 azawawi now what should i do to fix Padre... hmmm :)
12:37 rindolf azawawi: :-)
12:37 rindolf azawawi: Fix Padre on Windows?
12:37 azawawi rindolf: yeah but i have a more evil plan :)
12:37 rindolf azawawi: Evil sounds good. ;-)
12:38 * azawawi plans to read Modern Perl over the weekend... first
12:38 azawawi and i have been experimenting lately with Mojo
12:38 azawawi and Dancer
12:39 zenog azawawi: Sounds like fun ;-)
12:39 azawawi zenog: hi there!
12:41 azawawi wxwidgets is cool but what about Padre::Lite in a web browser... :)
12:41 szabgab man, I am inserting data into an sqlite database, it takes about 2 hours
12:42 szabgab if I first start a transaction and commit only at the end it is faster
12:42 azawawi szabgab: batch like 1000+ in a transaction and then commit
12:42 szabgab it takes 30 sec
12:42 zenog azawawi: Or an ncurses version of Padre. Padre::Vintage
12:42 azawawi zenog: yeah
12:42 szabgab azawawi: right
12:42 El_Che it's called vim/emacs
12:42 azawawi El_Che: hehe
12:43 El_Che hi azawawi, rindolf, zenog
12:44 rindolf Hi El_Che
12:44 * azawawi tries installing Curses::Toolkit over win32
12:44 El_Che I haven't touch java in a while, refreshing by rereading core java I and II (+-2000 pages): makes me tired
12:44 azawawi El_Che: write applications... it is better
12:44 El_Che I am attending an j2ee course, so better refresh the j2se part
12:45 azawawi El_Che: j2ee is dead lol
12:45 El_Che azawawi: yeah, that's what developers use here
12:45 El_Che so, know your enemey stuff
12:45 El_Che I changed jobs some time ago
12:45 azawawi El_Che: i dont understand why some developer like to complicate things
12:45 azawawi El_Che: developer=developers
12:45 azawawi El_Che: ejb != reusability
12:46 El_Che azawawi: I often feel I know more java than the guys doing the projects. sigh
12:46 azawawi El_Che: and setting up dev environments are a pain
12:46 azawawi El_Che: i do simple ee java
12:47 azawawi El_Che: i design java stuff to be simple
12:47 El_Che chnages some things here. Like stopping developers doing 3 times a week deployments in production in stuff
12:47 El_Che yep, I am the bad guy :)
12:47 El_Che simple is good
12:47 azawawi El_Che: sometimes dropping big frameworks = more productivity
12:48 El_Che you need good developers
12:48 azawawi El_Che: given that you do not need to know much to change stuff
12:48 azawawi Curses::Toolkit failed
12:48 El_Che the thing is that a lot of developers don't know/care much about programmers
12:49 azawawi zenog: Curses::Toolkit stills fails over win32
12:50 El_Che azawawi: we have java apps crawing on servers with 128 or 256 cores
12:50 azawawi El_Che: too many frameworks
12:50 azawawi El_Che: bloat...
12:50 azawawi El_Che: and in the end, you're insert X into database Y...
12:50 El_Che hehe
12:50 El_Che idd
12:51 azawawi El_Che: insert=inserting
12:51 zenog azawawi: okay ... I do not run Windows, so I never know the state of affairs there ...
12:51 azawawi El_Che: i hate Java ORMs in general...
12:51 El_Che zenog: aren't you the .net guy? :P
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12:52 El_Che azawawi: talking about db killing queries :)
12:52 azawawi El_Che: just turn SQL logging on an ORM... and tears start dropping... :)
12:52 dolmen azawawi: there is no 'curses' on Strawberry :(
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12:53 azawawi El_Che: a SELECT for every object queried in some cases... and the developer is happily iterating that list... lol
12:54 azawawi El_Che: ORM are cool toys when used properly
12:54 azawawi El_Che: but batch processing and ORMs do not mix well...
12:54 El_Che things tend to become very complex and no ones has a global view
12:55 azawawi El_Che: also relationships in ORM tend to overcomplicate a simple table leading to many unnecessary joins...
12:55 zenog El_Che: I am the .NET on Linux guy ;-)
12:55 azawawi zenog: the mono guy! :)
12:55 El_Che the guys with a patent bomb jacket :)
12:55 El_Che zenog: didn't the mono dev get fired, btw?
12:56 El_Che I saw something on slashdot (not much of a reference)
12:57 azawawi any idea where can I find a Perl 5 porters IRC channel log?
12:58 El_Che feeling adventurous?
12:58 azawawi i once asked that question there... ouch!
12:59 azawawi privacy issues etc...
13:03 azawawi I have been thinking lately if it is feasible to run Padre as an HTTP server and then code the UI via HTML/JavaScript...
13:05 azawawi The reason for that is that wxwidgets installation is making things harder for most of our users
13:05 Sewi Wouldn't that be very very slow?
13:05 azawawi very very slow... why? :)
13:05 Sewi Because Javascript is slower than perl and HTTP is slower than Padre's current APIs.
13:06 azawawi true
13:06 zenog Yeah, it seems they have been fired ... essentially, with software patents these days, everyone in software wears a patent bomb jacket.
13:06 azawawi but JavaScript = faster now than Perl
13:06 azawawi on modern browsers
13:06 Sewi sure?
13:06 azawawi yup
13:07 zenog azawawi: Wouldn't it be better to then code most of it in JavaScript, to avoid to much HTTP communication?
13:07 azawawi zenog: but the trick is not to play a lot in the javascript land
13:07 zenog JavaScript has become very very fast in the recent years.
13:08 azawawi zenog: i mean still code Perl but translate stuff to JavaScript on the fly... or something
13:08 El_Che azawawi: gwt for perl?
13:08 dolmen azawawi: do you want to build a Perl version of Orion http://eclipse.org/orion/
13:08 azawawi El_Che: you read my mind lol
13:10 azawawi dolmen: nice link
13:10 dolmen Sewi, azawawi: see Orion and also http://ajaxorg.github.com/ace/build/editor.html
13:11 dolmen http://ace.ajax.org/
13:11 azawawi dolmen: i did some crazy stuff in JavaScript... :)
13:12 azawawi dolmen: when i was hacking in #perl6
13:12 dolmen azawawi: you ported PPI to JavaScript? (that would be cool!)
13:13 zenog We just need Perl on JavaScript.
13:13 zenog And maybe Wx on JavaScript :-P
13:13 dolmen "just" :)
13:14 zenog dolmen: ;-)
13:14 azawawi GWT solves it by dividing your application into server and client
13:14 azawawi the Java client syntax is more restricted
13:14 azawawi the server = fully-fledged Java
13:14 azawawi that way they translate a subset of Java into JavaScript
13:15 azawawi which lives in yourapplication.client package...
13:15 dolmen azawawi: in GWT the server can be anything, not just Java
13:15 azawawi dolmen: true
13:15 azawawi dolmen: python works there
13:16 azawawi dolmen: but the integration they did for eclipse is just crazy
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13:16 dolmen azawawi: the Java-to-JS is just for client side code
13:16 zenog RStudio is an IDE for R that also runs on the web (but also native): http://www.rstudio.org/
13:16 azawawi dolmen: gwt development over eclipse = write, save and refresh your browser...
13:17 azawawi dolmen: no compilation step whatsoever...
13:17 azawawi dolmen: however every now and then that process fails, and you need to restart but that's after 1-2+ hours  of continuous development
13:18 zenog On the other hand, what'
13:18 zenog s wrong with normal GUI apps?
13:19 azawawi so far the dependency over X framework...
13:19 azawawi which is not being updated
13:19 dolmen portability
13:19 azawawi and nobody at ubuntu/debian seems to care about installing it properly
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13:21 dolmen you mean Wx, isn't it?
13:21 azawawi dolmen: yeah
13:21 azawawi when will wxwidgets 3.0 be released?...
13:22 El_Che azawawi: how was your stay in c++ land for the scintilla work?
13:22 azawawi El_Che: bad lol
13:23 dolmen about Padre on Ubuntu: I just installed it on Xubuntu (Xfce-based Ubuntu desktop) and I don't have the application menu
13:23 dolmen Ubuntu Natty
13:23 azawawi El_Che: but i mostly got distracted with my future house preparations...
13:23 azawawi El_Che: I got engaged in April...
13:24 El_Che ah, congratulations
13:24 azawawi El_Che: thanks
13:24 dolmen yes, congratulations
13:24 azawawi *: thanks :)
13:25 azawawi no time left to do a lot of my hobbies :)
13:25 El_Che or rather: you got a new hobby
13:25 azawawi but im slowly adjusting
13:25 azawawi El_Che: :)
13:26 azawawi dolmen: watch out for perlbrew bug on natty
13:26 azawawi dolmen: http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.com/201​1/05/ubuntu-1104-and-perlbrew.html
13:26 El_Che azawawi: it's rather a perl bug
13:26 El_Che or better: ubuntu one as they decided to move libs around
13:26 azawawi El_Che: i know
13:27 dolmen azawawi: I don't use PerlBrew... yet
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13:27 azawawi El_Che: no symlinks... crazy
13:27 dolmen symlinks do not help to find problems
13:28 azawawi Anyway it is the same on win64
13:28 azawawi ok, my other project that i have been designing in my mind
13:28 azawawi Wx::FormBuilder :)
13:30 azawawi basically it is a port of wxformbuilder for perl
13:31 azawawi dolmen: I use perlbrew to test Padre against multiple versions of Perl... that's it
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13:31 El_Che is pretty nice
13:31 El_Che I use it on linux and solaris
13:32 azawawi El_Che: what version of Solaris are we talking about btw?
13:32 El_Che 10
13:33 azawawi Last Solaris i touched was version 8, stayed in touch until 9
13:33 El_Che 10 is an huge improvement
13:34 azawawi used to use sunfreeware.com a lot back in those days...
13:34 azawawi to get up2date packages
13:34 azawawi or compile them
13:34 El_Che opencsw is where the action is
13:34 El_Che but I don' use it due to security
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13:34 El_Che I compile and package myself
13:35 El_Che creating a perl lib for it
13:35 azawawi http://www.opencsw.org/?s=padre # nothing :(
13:35 El_Che hopefully to be released on cpan soon
13:35 El_Che Solaris::PackageFactory
13:35 El_Che azawawi: I am in contract with those guy
13:35 El_Che they gave me an account on thir buldfarm
13:35 El_Che guys
13:36 El_Che also a lot of love for perl
13:37 azawawi cool
13:37 El_Che they apt-get clone is in perl
13:37 El_Che their
13:37 azawawi El_Che: 5.14 should be released soon but be available in all platforms in 2020+ :)
13:38 El_Che hehe
13:38 azawawi El_Che: system perl is a blessing and a curse at the same time :)
13:38 El_Che idd
13:39 El_Che azawawi: at least we'are getting perl 5.10 on solaris 11 end this year
13:39 El_Che and a sane package/patching infrastructure
13:39 azawawi El_Che: yeah but developers are capped at 5.8 until i dont know when...
13:40 azawawi El_Che: it is frustrating a bit
13:40 El_Che 5.8 is pretty dead by now
13:40 El_Che recently
13:40 El_Che it took a long time
13:40 El_Che ah
13:40 El_Che perl, not solaris
13:40 El_Che :)
13:40 azawawi hehe
13:40 El_Che solaris 5.8 is just dead
13:40 azawawi 2.8
13:41 azawawi :)
13:41 El_Che l
13:41 El_Che hehe
13:41 El_Che solaris 10 has perl 5.8.4
13:41 El_Che I end up packageing my own perl for solaris
13:41 azawawi {Crazy Sun engineers}++ # for funny Solaris versions :)
13:42 El_Che thebes-root# uname -a
13:42 El_Che SunOS thebes 5.10 Generic_142900-15 sun4u sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-V440
13:42 El_Che thebes-root# grep Solaris /etc/release Solaris 10 10/09 s10s_u8wos_08a SPARC
13:42 El_Che several names everywhere :)
13:43 azawawi hehe
13:44 El_Che sunos 5.10, Solaris 10 10/09, Solaris 10 update 8
13:45 azawawi Java 6 Update 25 => java version "1.6.0_25" => build 1.6.0_25-b06
13:45 azawawi => Hotspot build 20.0-b11 ... :)
13:46 azawawi So the question is do we need a Wx GUI designer in Padre or not (as a plugin at least at first)
13:47 El_Che like in netbeans? it would rule
13:47 azawawi start simple and then extend
13:48 El_Che like the borg
13:48 azawawi We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.... :)
13:49 El_Che who can say no when a hot chick says that
13:49 El_Che so, azawawi when will you be assimilated?
13:49 El_Che :)
13:49 azawawi :)
13:50 azawawi hopefully i will start reading Modern Perl this evening, and drop an initial Padre::Plugin::Experimento with a couple of my random ideas
13:50 azawawi over the weekend
13:51 El_Che it was a nice read
13:51 azawawi chromatic++
13:52 azawawi http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/0​5/reuse-is-merely-a-happy-accident.html # very cool...
13:55 * azawawi preps for the journey to total-weekend-fun... :)
13:57 * azawawi home... cya later everyone &
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17:46 szabgab bookmark dialog: hot-keys are missing, ESC does not close it
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18:23 bowtie szabgab, ping
18:27 zenog &
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19:39 bsalem I did an update of perl modules using CPAN shell. This broke Padre, setting chown to root:root for .padre dir. I changes this and padre came back, thks.
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19:41 bsalem Am running 0.63 from Ubuntu apps, that is down rev, but fixing ownership brought it back.
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19:42 user_4243 When I run Padre in using Debug->Step in it doesn't seem to pass in my command line parameters that under Preferences 'Run Parameters'-Current Document. How do I pass in command line parameter when running in debug mode
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19:49 szabgab user_4243: I don't think padre.....
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19:49 szabgab user_4243: I don't think padre can do it for you now
19:50 szabgab but you can set @ARGV in your script
19:50 szabgab as a work around
19:51 user_4243 ok. Thanks for the suggestion. Would be nice if command line parameters worked in debug mode. Hope its an upcoming feature.
19:51 szabgab yeah, one day :)
19:51 szabgab but lack of relevant tuits
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