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Message |
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| 08:57 |
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| 09:06 |
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Sewi |
Getty: Ever tried Mouse? |
| 09:16 |
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| 11:17 |
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| 12:22 |
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| 12:59 |
|
Getty |
Sewi: ??!?!?! why should I? I use Moo and Moose, Mouse is a deadend concept in my eyes, and i totally have no clue why you ask me this... |
| 13:00 |
|
El_Che |
hey |
| 13:00 |
|
El_Che |
Mouse is pretty cool |
| 13:00 |
|
El_Che |
I use it when I don't use class introspection and when start-up time matters |
| 13:00 |
|
El_Che |
like cli application |
| 13:05 |
|
Alias |
Or when you want to debug |
| 13:05 |
|
Alias |
Since it does most of it's stuff in XS now so it's actually debuggable |
| 13:06 |
|
El_Che |
and it's fast |
| 13:06 |
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| 13:12 |
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| 13:13 |
|
Alias |
Yup, I've ditched Moose for Mouse most places now |
| 13:13 |
|
Alias |
Way smaller, faster and debuggable, and I don't use the crazy advanced stuff from Moose anyway |
| 13:17 |
|
El_Che |
I use mother on the fly generation for repetitive code |
| 13:17 |
|
El_Che |
like $meta->add_method stuff in a begin block |
| 13:25 |
|
Getty |
Alias: if you minimum do AnyMoose <shiver> then its ok, then people can use the stuff in the Moose env clean |
| 13:32 |
|
El_Che |
You can just use Moose and decide to so a s/Moose/Mouse/ at the end |
| 13:33 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: ???!! |
| 13:33 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: AnyMoose handles that for you, and no, i dont replace inside of my CPAN distributions ;) i produce mostly code for CPAN |
| 13:34 |
|
El_Che |
you may decide to have less dependencies |
| 13:34 |
|
El_Che |
and with Mouse you leave the door open for Moose |
| 13:35 |
|
El_Che |
I guess it will get faster at startup in the future |
| 13:36 |
|
Alias |
AnyMoose adds more dependnecies |
| 13:38 |
|
Getty |
i use Moo for "low level" stuff but then i avoid meta totally |
| 13:38 |
|
Getty |
i mean i cant do it anyway ;) |
| 13:39 |
|
Getty |
Text::Tweet and Text::Keywords for example i made with Moo to not get Moose requirement |
| 13:46 |
|
El_Che |
so, Mouse is too heavy for you? |
| 13:47 |
|
Getty |
Mouse only makes sense if you use it in combination with AnyMoose, and i personal think that concept is not cool, so i prefer to go even more low level, Moo is a good path in my eyes, but its fresh and new |
| 13:48 |
|
El_Che |
I use it without AnyMoose and it's feels ok |
| 13:49 |
|
El_Che |
you mean for libs when people are already using Moose? |
| 13:49 |
|
El_Che |
so they end up loading Mouse and Moose? |
| 13:49 |
|
Getty |
AnyMoose loads Moose into the play if its anyway in the play |
| 13:49 |
|
Getty |
so its always ok |
| 13:49 |
|
El_Che |
that is bad, but I don't see the difference between people loading Moo and Moose at the same time |
| 13:50 |
|
Getty |
Moose people get Moose, Mouse people get Mouse |
| 13:50 |
|
Getty |
mh? |
| 13:50 |
|
El_Che |
when I write a command line unix app, I want by example everyone to use mouse |
| 13:50 |
|
Getty |
why satisfy less people if you can satisfy more without changing what you get? |
| 13:50 |
|
El_Che |
otherwise it takes to long to even load an help screen |
| 13:50 |
|
El_Che |
too |
| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
aehm, if you use AnyMoose then it will be Mouse on every load if its your App:: ?! |
| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
why it should load Moose if there is no Moose loaded around? |
| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
you should check into AnyMoose really |
| 13:51 |
|
El_Che |
so let me get this |
| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
if you dont use AnyMoose is just like "i want to definitly exclude all Moose users cause they suck" |
| 13:51 |
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| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
i mean, its an opinion ;) |
| 13:51 |
|
El_Che |
I put "use AnyMoose" |
| 13:51 |
|
Getty |
checkout the docs on it |
| 13:51 |
|
El_Che |
but I want Mouse |
| 13:52 |
|
Getty |
i'm not a 100% pro on it, but thats the concept overall |
| 13:52 |
|
El_Che |
wouldn't it load Moose *first* if installed? |
| 13:52 |
|
El_Che |
in this specifically case it would be ok the other way round |
| 13:52 |
|
Getty |
in my understandment it shouldnt do it, if noone else uses it in the env |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
# uses Moose if it's loaded or demanded, Mouse otherwise |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
see |
| 13:53 |
|
El_Che |
When I checked the docs it was "Load Mouse only if Moose is not there" |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
first comment in the synopsis |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
"loaded or demanded" |
| 13:53 |
|
El_Che |
anyway, don't get me wrong, I use Moose fairly often |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
not "just on harddisc" |
| 13:53 |
|
Getty |
yeah, thats why i dont get why you fight against AnyMoose ;) |
| 13:54 |
|
Getty |
especially if you use Mouse AND Moose |
| 13:54 |
|
Getty |
then you are a 100% candidate for AnyMoose |
| 13:54 |
|
El_Che |
and I see Mouse more as growing pains until Moose gets a fast startup time or a more layered loading system |
| 13:55 |
|
Getty |
whatever |
| 13:55 |
|
Getty |
i cant say i care, cause i have no clue why i should care about that startup time i have once every month |
| 13:55 |
|
Getty |
you are supposed to work "steady" in perl, or as i often describe it: you dont start in bash a for loop to start a perl 1000 times |
| 13:56 |
|
Getty |
you make a perl that executes code 1000 time |
| 13:57 |
|
El_Che |
it depends on the application |
| 13:57 |
|
Getty |
not really, but it depends on the distribution of it, yes |
| 13:57 |
|
El_Che |
webapps, I don't care about startup |
| 13:57 |
|
Getty |
if you make a "tool" for user, then yes, its a bit sucky if it takes some sec to startup and show help |
| 13:58 |
|
El_Che |
but I care if the utily runs for a second while the startup is longer |
| 13:58 |
|
Getty |
but i only work in perl in specific product context, i use App:: instead of call the script of it |
| 13:58 |
|
El_Che |
and a daemon for that is really overkill |
| 13:58 |
|
Getty |
depends on the distribution you want, yes |
| 13:58 |
|
Getty |
i always do daemons |
| 13:58 |
|
Getty |
in the productive environments |
| 13:58 |
|
Getty |
my App::'s i make are always prepared to just be included in other Perl scripts |
| 13:59 |
|
El_Che |
in the solaris world we have a lot of perl running dtrace scripts |
| 13:59 |
|
Getty |
this way i assure that its usable for CLI user and Perl user, but yes, i dont give much about the 1-2 sec. startup time |
| 13:59 |
|
Getty |
irgs <makecross> |
| 13:59 |
|
Getty |
yeah in the stoneage they used mod_perl |
| 13:59 |
|
Getty |
;) |
| 13:59 |
|
Getty |
we are talking about totally different target groups it seems :) |
| 13:59 |
|
El_Che |
you are excluding common perl usages because you don't use those |
| 14:00 |
|
Getty |
why i do so? |
| 14:00 |
|
Getty |
my personal products and the products i make for customers are not seen by anyone |
| 14:00 |
|
El_Che |
that's ok, I am only saying that the requirements vary |
| 14:00 |
|
Getty |
true, i dont deny that |
| 14:01 |
|
El_Che |
perl is faster than python and ruby, so that's why it's broadly used in UNIX cli program's |
| 14:01 |
|
Getty |
thats why i say i accept Mouse, cause it is a solution for a problem <point>, in combination with AnyMoose i even dont need to care really |
| 14:01 |
|
El_Che |
of course, we could go the C/C++ way, but often perl is pretty fast |
| 14:01 |
|
Getty |
yeah, and? |
| 14:02 |
|
El_Che |
so in those cases you know you'll not be using Moose but Mouse |
| 14:02 |
|
El_Che |
so the choice is not really relevant |
| 14:02 |
|
Getty |
you mean AnyMoose? ;) |
| 14:02 |
|
El_Che |
in some case you prefer a non-running app than a slow-startup app |
| 14:02 |
|
Getty |
as said: in the "AnyMoose" case, i try to use Moo, cause i believe in this concept, its just a choice |
| 14:03 |
|
Getty |
?!?! |
| 14:03 |
|
Getty |
wait |
| 14:03 |
|
Getty |
you mean its better to have no app then having a slow startup? ;) i dont think you wanted to say that |
| 14:04 |
|
Getty |
btw, there is now MouseX::POE ;) just a sidenote for you Mouse fans ;) |
| 14:04 |
|
El_Che |
You need the right dependencies like every application on cpan |
| 14:04 |
|
El_Che |
I kind of agree with the Moose developers on that one |
| 14:05 |
|
El_Che |
if you start needing *X packages, move to Moose for that project |
| 14:05 |
|
Getty |
which i do in all my products |
| 14:05 |
|
Getty |
i have a huge stack of standard MooseX modules i use |
| 14:05 |
|
El_Che |
the only thing I am saying is that I *am* a huge Moose fan, but sadly it's not there yet for all the perl usages out there |
| 14:06 |
|
Getty |
also i often tend to use Declare magic for stuff, or define new meta functions just for the project |
| 14:06 |
|
Getty |
and what should i change now in my life? ;) |
| 14:06 |
|
El_Che |
you should stay happy :) |
| 14:07 |
|
Getty |
yeah, thats why i use Moose and Moo :) they make me happy |
| 14:07 |
|
El_Che |
I need to recheck Moo, but last time I checked it look more of a anti-Moose reaction |
| 14:07 |
|
Getty |
you must also understand that my complete activity on Perl is based on the fact that i felt in love with Perl cause of Moose (and POE) |
| 14:07 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: OH! no no... |
| 14:07 |
|
El_Che |
we look similar, but we don't want to be 100% compatible because they are wrong |
| 14:08 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: its a mst project |
| 14:08 |
|
El_Che |
things change of course |
| 14:08 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: its a different approach then AnyMoose, and i think its a better one, but we will see how it comes out, Moo is still in grow |
| 14:08 |
|
El_Che |
anyway, the Moose guys posted a clarification about all these project in response to a blog post of mine :) |
| 14:08 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: but its useable, it gives the base base base Moose (so definitly much less then Mouse) for a very cheap price requirement-wise |
| 14:09 |
|
Getty |
(and its ownage fast) |
| 14:09 |
|
El_Che |
http://blog.moose.perl.org/201[…]se-ecosystem.html |
| 14:09 |
|
Getty |
yeah saw that one |
| 14:10 |
|
Getty |
and it just says what i say ;) |
| 14:10 |
|
Getty |
its nto Anti-Moose |
| 14:10 |
|
Getty |
Moo is also part of the ecosystem and its not evil to try it out |
| 14:11 |
|
Getty |
you just need to accept that it has just started and you shouldnt see it as real "enemy" featurewise against Mouse if you just take it "as lib-user" |
| 14:11 |
|
Getty |
but i like to support projects and libs that i think are the right concept, thats why i try to use Moose/Moo |
| 14:11 |
|
Getty |
someone must do it, so that Moo can get more developed |
| 14:12 |
|
El_Che |
Beside Mono I don't have M* ennemies :) |
| 14:15 |
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| 14:17 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: a little bit of "competition" is always good :) |
| 14:18 |
|
Getty |
El_Che: its the engine of innovation :) |
| 14:24 |
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| 15:09 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:33 |
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| 15:48 |
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| 15:49 |
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| 15:56 |
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| 15:58 |
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| 16:08 |
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| 16:16 |
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| 16:40 |
|
Hyppolit |
svn: r14412 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14412 |
| 16:40 |
|
Hyppolit |
padre on strawberry perl release tools for v2 |
| 16:40 |
|
Hyppolit |
trunk/tools/ |
| 16:48 |
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| 16:53 |
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| 16:55 |
|
Hyppolit |
svn: r14413 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14413 |
| 16:55 |
|
Hyppolit |
tidy |
| 16:55 |
|
Hyppolit |
trunk/tools/ |
| 17:13 |
|
Hyppolit |
svn: r14414 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14414 |
| 17:13 |
|
Hyppolit |
tidy some Padre code |
| 17:13 |
|
Hyppolit |
trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Dialog/ |
| 17:20 |
|
Hyppolit |
wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/[…]i/DownloadWindows changed by szabgab |
| 17:23 |
|
szabgab |
El_Che: I uploaded a new version of Padre on Strawberry Perl |
| 17:23 |
|
szabgab |
it includes more stuff |
| 17:23 |
|
szabgab |
and a padre.bat that sets the path befoe launching padre |
| 17:34 |
|
Hyppolit |
wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/[…]i/DownloadWindows changed by szabgab |
| 17:37 |
|
Hyppolit |
wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/[…]i/DownloadWindows changed by szabgab |
| 17:42 |
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| 19:14 |
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| 19:17 |
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Hyppolit |
svn: r14415 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/14415 |
| 19:17 |
|
Hyppolit |
Update the messages.pot file |
| 19:17 |
|
Hyppolit |
trunk/Padre/share/locale/ |
| 19:47 |
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