Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2011-07-26

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Time Nick Message
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04:27 dapatrick Hey, I've been having this ongoing problem where I can't set the default working directory.
04:27 dapatrick It keeps reverting to my home directory.
04:27 dapatrick Has anyone encountered this problem previously?
04:39 tome Hi dapatrick, haven't tried that, sorry.
04:42 szabgab_ gm
04:42 szabgab_ I have a strange issue on Windows
04:43 szabgab_ several of the menu shortcuts don't work
04:43 szabgab_ is now known as szabgab
04:43 szabgab dapatrick: how do you try to set it?
04:44 dapatrick szabgab Via preferences.
04:44 szabgab Alias: ping
04:44 dapatrick It's weird. It works on my computer at the office.
04:44 dapatrick But on my personal laptop, it doesn't work.
04:44 szabgab Alias: Alt-S does not open the Search menu for me, is it working on your computer?
04:44 szabgab dapatrick: OS differences?
04:45 dapatrick Nope.
04:45 szabgab perl differences?
04:45 dapatrick Same version of Ubuntu.
04:45 dapatrick Same Perl.
04:45 dapatrick I'm looking at File::HomeDir and File::ShareDir as possible culprits
04:45 szabgab wx?
04:45 dapatrick Hmm.
04:45 dapatrick Might be Wx.
04:46 szabgab create a dump of all the modules in the memory of padre and diff between them
04:46 dapatrick Sounds like a good idea.
04:46 dapatrick How do I do that?
04:49 Hyppolit svn: r15071 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15071
04:49 Hyppolit remove duplicate shortcut
04:49 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
04:51 szabgab dapatrick: enable the plugin "Padre developer tools"
04:52 szabgab and there you have Dump -> Dump %INC and @INC
04:52 dapatrick k
04:56 szabgab I'll scream very loud now, alt-h does not work even in Notepad.exe !
04:57 szabgab I wonder if the new computer I have is broken or what?
05:11 szabgab after rebooting windows I got back the alt-h and the other alt-* keys
05:11 szabgab now I only need to figure out which application created the issue in the first place
05:23 dapatrick I can't get Padre to open fully across my VPN connection. I'll have to debug this more when I return from OSCON.
05:23 dapatrick Thanks for your help szabgab.
05:24 Hyppolit svn: r15072 | submersible_toaster++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15072
05:24 Hyppolit layout and style changes. Additional session debug()
05:24 Hyppolit trunk/Madre/lib/Madre/Dance/ trunk/Madre/public/css/ trunk/Madre/views/ trunk/Madre/views/layouts/
05:26 Hyppolit svn: r15073 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15073
05:26 Hyppolit - Removed the --with-plugin command line option used by one of the author
05:26 Hyppolit tests as the implementation violated encapsulation badly (ADAMK)
05:26 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/script/ trunk/Padre/xt/
05:27 Hyppolit svn: r15074 | submersible_toaster++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15074
05:27 Hyppolit zindex reflection
05:27 Hyppolit trunk/Madre/public/css/
05:38 Alias dapatrick: I've noticed something similar
05:39 dapatrick Really?
05:39 dapatrick Were you able to determine a solution?
05:39 Alias The config system concept of a default value shouldn't result in an entry being written to the database, it should KNOW that it's the default and not an explicit setting
05:39 Alias I've encountered the bug, but have not investigated it in any details
05:40 Alias But the problem probably comes down to something reading out the config value, then passing it back to ->set( ... ) later
05:40 Alias And somewhere along the line that shouldn't have happened
05:40 Alias But I've had other more obvious bugs to fix
05:40 Alias So I haven't looked into it in details
05:41 Alias If you were to run dev -d and then break on Padre::Config::set, then clear it and break on the setting name being the working directory, run Padre and wait to hit it
05:41 Alias When it does, do "T" and see the callstack that got you to that point
05:41 Alias Something along those lines might let you find the problem
05:43 dapatrick Hmm.
05:43 dapatrick Okay. I'll try this in the morning.
05:43 dapatrick Thanks for this Alias.
05:43 dapatrick This is helpful.
05:44 Alias n/p
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05:50 Alias szabgab: As of Yesterday's trunk, Alt-S works for me
05:50 Alias Windows
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06:37 szabgab Alias: after reboot it started to work for me too
06:38 szabgab I'll have to keep an eye on this to see what other application broke it as I am quite sure it is some other application
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07:12 Sewi El_Che_: Manual recompile fixed the problem
07:13 El_Che_ yes
07:13 El_Che_ libs chnaged
07:18 Sewi yeah, but Ubuntu installed the Wx package from repro which seems to be the current CPAN version
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07:37 tome LION! PADRE!
07:38 El_Che_ TOME!
07:38 tome I thought my build process was broken for like 4 days, turns out one of the plugins (I think scintilla) was hosing the lion biuld. Once I removed it, everything seems to work... Now just figuring out how to compile scintilla (or whichever other plugin it was that hosed me).
07:39 tome happy days...
07:40 El_Che_ Wx::Scintilla?
07:40 tome yeah
07:40 El_Che_ it's a nice one
07:40 tome but I think I know the problem
07:40 tome manually building it now
07:41 tome YEAH!
07:41 tome it works!
07:41 El_Che_ I hope to see it in core once it matures
07:41 El_Che_ tome++
07:50 tome Awesome! Lion OSX DMG runs with scintilla, critic, and tidy plugins!
07:50 tome sorry for all the messages, It has been a long slog through the Lion build and runtime problems these past few days....
07:53 El_Che_ no, tome, it's great
07:53 El_Che_ keep typing :)
08:06 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/osxbugs changed by tome
08:07 * tome thinks wow you guys really have everything going to irc : )
08:08 El_Che_ how is lion btw?
08:08 El_Che_ I am a linux guy, but soon will have a ipad :)
08:08 El_Che_ is now known as El_Che
08:08 tome they made a lot of changes. The ones that I use I think are really really good
08:08 tome there is still work to be done
08:09 tome full-screen mode is kind of useful for some things, but ends up causing me a headache because of the visual complexity of switching from one full screen app to another, but that's just because that's not 'what you're supposed to do'
08:09 tome mail client is passable finally...
08:10 tome I hope one day Padre plays nice with the auto-save / 'mini-time-machine' API
08:10 tome and even full screen : )
08:14 El_Che what bothers me on Linux/Gnome - that copied the dialog button order and syntax from macos - are the windows centric buttons in padre
08:15 tome What is an example?
08:16 El_Che everything with "OK" in it
08:27 tome http://wildperl.com/2011/07/padr​e-dmg-for-osx-lion-alpha-build/
08:28 * tome goes to sleep
08:29 El_Che cool tome
08:29 El_Che thx
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09:05 Hyppolit svn: r15075 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15075
09:05 Hyppolit - Moved Bookmarks from View to Search menu in line with other
09:05 Hyppolit several other editors (ADAMK)
09:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
09:08 Hyppolit svn: r15076 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15076
09:08 Hyppolit - Removed unused methods for adding customer view menu elements. If plugins
09:08 Hyppolit are going to add to the view menu the submenus should be pulled from the
09:08 Hyppolit plugin and not pushed from the plugin (ADAMK)
09:08 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
09:09 bowtie Alias, ping
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09:58 Hyppolit svn: r15077 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15077
09:58 Hyppolit General tidying up of menu labels and moved some menu commands to different (more appropriate) menus
09:58 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/xt/
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10:05 waxhead hey Alias
10:05 Alias yo
10:05 waxhead how are we looking for a release?
10:05 waxhead has anyone taken a look at the find issues that were raised in the dev list?
10:10 Alias There's so many improvements we really do need to release
10:10 Alias The Find stuff is a bit flakey, but I find it's relatively tolerable
10:10 Alias Considering the scale of the OTHER fixes, personally I wouldn't wait
10:11 Alias And the search stuff is definitely better in the new one, it's just not DONE in the way we'd like
10:11 Alias But look at the change list
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10:14 waxhead cool.. how soon.. is the weekend too far off?
10:14 Alias Depends, will it actually get released on the weekend?
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10:15 zenog hello
10:15 waxhead OMG.. that's huge!
10:15 waxhead hey zenog
10:15 Alias Given the bugs in the last release, we should have released about a week after the previous release
10:15 Alias Current production release is pretty borked
10:15 waxhead Fine.. I'll make a start on it now then
10:15 Hyppolit svn: r15078 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15078
10:15 Hyppolit More small menu tweaks
10:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/
10:17 shadowpaste "waxhead" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "failing test" (7 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/126305
10:19 Alias svn update
10:19 waxhead yeah, just did and passes now
10:20 waxhead it's all about the timing.. :)
10:20 Alias I get bored when there's no releasing going on and I break things
10:22 waxhead you could do a screen cast with the wxglade thing.. :)
10:23 waxhead is Padre OK enough now to branch for a release now then?
10:23 waxhead it's passing tests, I haven't tried under RELEASE_TESTING
10:25 waxhead OK, well I think if we do this release now, then for the next one the Find issues should be addressed...
10:25 waxhead which is easy for me to say as I haven't really look at Padre code in months!  :)
10:27 Alias Nope, don't branch yet
10:27 Alias Let me unbreak a few last things
10:27 waxhead ok
10:27 waxhead t/15-locale.t .............. 1/7 Can't call method "Enable" on an undefined value at /home/pete/Programming/Perl/Padre/trun​k/Padre/blib/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/Edit.pm line 354.
10:27 waxhead # Looks like you planned 7 tests but ran 3.
10:27 waxhead # Looks like your test exited with 255 just after 3.
10:27 waxhead t/15-locale.t .............. Dubious, test returned 255 (wstat 65280, 0xff00)
10:27 waxhead Failed 4/7 subtests
10:28 waxhead drat.. that wasn't the right one..
10:28 waxhead that was the paste before
10:28 Hyppolit svn: r15079 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15079
10:28 Hyppolit update German translation
10:28 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
10:28 waxhead zenog++
10:29 waxhead make life easier not having to switch to the branch.. :)
10:31 waxhead wow... Padre seems a whole lot more snappier
10:31 waxhead is that the task manager fix you found alias?
10:32 Alias Certainly if you are using the Syntax Highlighter it should be, which used to trigger the thread leak a lot
10:33 waxhead hmm.. so what's wrong with using qx to make direct system calls?
10:34 waxhead this is the test that fails:
10:34 waxhead Failed test 'Padre::Document::Perl: Makes direct system calls with qx'
10:34 waxhead this appears to be the offending code:
10:34 waxhead my $incs = qx{$perl -e "print join ';', \@INC"};
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10:41 Alias It pops up a command line box
10:42 Alias On Windows at least
10:53 Hyppolit svn: r15080 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15080
10:53 Hyppolit - Added feature_folding to allow the removal of code folding support (ADAMK)
10:53 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/t/
10:53 Alias I'm happy to comment that out for now
10:53 Alias Better we get the new release out
10:59 waxhead what does?
10:59 waxhead that line of code?
10:59 waxhead oh.. do what you need to do tonight and I'll branch tomorrow night
11:00 waxhead with the intent of getting the release rolled out friday night, very late or sometime over saturday
11:01 submersible_toaster do we turn on feature_sync too ?
11:08 waxhead hey submersible_toaster
11:08 waxhead how's things?
11:08 waxhead on google+ yet?
11:09 submersible_toaster i've managed to +1 things without getting entangled waxhead :)
11:09 waxhead ha...
11:09 waxhead fair enough.
11:09 waxhead I'm playing with it at the moment
11:09 submersible_toaster any good?
11:10 waxhead trying to think of who to follow
11:10 waxhead works for me for now
11:10 waxhead funny as though, in facebook I see things I'd rather not mostly, but in google+ it's the one thing I acutally miss
11:11 submersible_toaster szabgab wants irc client in padre so that may be next.
11:11 waxhead I think it does the "who to release this to" well, but it needs something like tags to allow us to follow people but only certain topics
11:11 Hyppolit svn: r15081 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15081
11:11 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
11:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
11:11 waxhead submersible_toaster, really?? IRC client?
11:11 waxhead I liked the idea of a Jabber client/whiteboard, but swarm does that now
11:12 submersible_toaster well it's been done once already...
11:12 waxhead the irc client thing?
11:12 waxhead does it sit in the bottom pane?
11:12 submersible_toaster swarm was first a borken irc client
11:13 submersible_toaster now it is a broken multicast local and tcp/json message client
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11:13 submersible_toaster yup. two panels in thee bottom pane with swarm logos . Local shows multicast messages from your LAN, Global shows messages from swarm.perlide.org
11:18 submersible_toaster the swarm server i am just not going to fix until I have a auth base , hence Madre and the config sync stuff.
11:19 submersible_toaster http://sync.perlide.org/ - my first dancer app
11:21 Hyppolit svn: r15082 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15082
11:21 Hyppolit Temporarily remove the qx thing
11:21 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/xt/
11:22 waxhead submersible_toaster, nice...
11:22 waxhead Alias, really???   that's the solution here?
11:22 waxhead man, here I was going to make a change for this release, and it wasn't that!  :)
11:23 waxhead submersible_toaster, all my pages are really ugly!
11:24 waxhead submersible_toaster, so what do you think of dancer as a frame work?
11:24 waxhead submersible_toaster, so is this using the Madre code that was contributed a while back as a project, was it a Uni project or something?
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11:25 Alias Consider it "inspired by" it
11:25 Alias We've rewritten most of the client code, and now rewritten most of the server
11:26 waxhead cool..
11:26 waxhead oh.. something to do in the quiet moments at work?
11:26 waxhead when did all this get done?
11:26 waxhead is it ready for the next release?
11:26 Alias I did the client rewrite as a test run of some middle version of the FormBuilder plugin
11:26 waxhead or should we hold out for the next release to make a bigger deal/announcement of it?
11:26 Alias But it didn't quite work
11:27 Alias submersible did the server and debugged the naively rewritten client during quite moments at work
11:27 waxhead nice...
11:27 Alias I'd rather not announce it properly until there's a guarenteed reliable default server
11:27 waxhead beats what I do at work
11:27 Alias But we can announce it as a preview
11:27 Alias You need to turn on feature_sync in advanced preferences
11:28 Alias And it doesn't do persistant automatic sync like it should, and it runs in the foreground
11:28 Alias And so on
11:28 Alias Very 1.0
11:28 waxhead OK, I'll keep that in mind...
11:28 submersible_toaster Alias: btw - that dialog still has issues.
11:28 Alias Definitely still considered "Experimental"
11:28 Alias submersible_toaster, I'm sure it does
11:29 waxhead I do have a concern here, are we adding too much neato stuff at the risk of not getting some of the more fundamental issues, like find, fixed up and working well?
11:29 waxhead however, I'm going to try it out...
11:30 Alias No, we aren't
11:30 Alias Look at the Changes list
11:30 Alias There's craptons of small fixes
11:30 waxhead I scanned it quickly...
11:30 Alias And on the subject of Find, there's a non-working experimental Replace in Files in there as well
11:30 Alias But don't announce that, since it DEFINITELY doesn't work
11:31 * waxhead rereads Changes
11:31 waxhead ok
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11:32 Hyppolit svn: r15083 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15083
11:32 Hyppolit Skip unless critic is new
11:32 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/xt/
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11:42 * Alias grumbles at Perl tool authors and there "Yay we'll helpfully do all kinds of shit, but it's ok because you can add extra cargo culted junk comments to every file in your entire repository to turn it off!"
11:43 Alias their
11:45 submersible_toaster </soapbox>
11:45 submersible_toaster !
11:45 submersible_toaster @work ?
11:45 Alias Shortly
11:46 Alias You run Padre's critic tests after accidentally installing Perl::Critic::More and you get a shit-ton of failures for not using exception objects
11:46 Alias So you add a [-WhateverPolicy] to the .ini file, no biggy
11:46 Alias Now on $different_computer, you'll get the exact same number of failures to disabling a policy that doesn't exist
11:47 Alias I think I'm going to make a toxic Perl::Critic plugin
11:47 Alias That loads itself into a random namespace, and fails all files once installed
11:48 Alias And throws error messages randomly stolen from other policies
11:48 waxhead Alias, you testing under RELEAE_TESTING?
11:48 Alias Yup
11:48 waxhead I'm getting heaps of critic fails
11:48 Alias Of course you are, you probably installed a plugin
11:48 waxhead and I've always looked at them and wonder what the heck to do with fixing them
11:48 Alias And it's magically decided to turn itself on and run against Padre without being asked
11:49 waxhead I only get the fails with RELEASE_TESTING and I installed the critic modules as part of the testing I do before a release.. however if everything else but these tests don't fail, I just go ahead and do the release
11:51 Alias Problem is, you can't control critic
11:51 Alias We SHOULD make it so we have to fix it all
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11:51 Alias But if you install a plugin it seems to run on it's own
11:52 waxhead does it?
11:53 Alias Looks like it
11:53 waxhead I hadn't noticed that... I'm actually running this under a perlbrewed setup, so I had to installed everything from scratch, which is mostly anything needed to get Padre to work
11:53 Alias Perl::Critic::More stuff is running for me, and I didn't ask it
11:53 waxhead I'm running perl 5.14.0 here
11:54 waxhead and I have the Tester stuff running too...
11:58 Alias I shall try to fix all the crtiic stuff for this release
11:58 Alias If only for your own piece of mind
12:00 waxhead my mind is at peace when I do a release :)
12:00 waxhead the only "oh god no" moment was when i added that stupid file name extension at the last minute
12:01 waxhead errr check..
12:01 waxhead hmm.. I must stay out of #sdl...
12:09 Hyppolit svn: r15084 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15084
12:09 Hyppolit Fixing all outstanding Perl::Critic bugs
12:09 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Project/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/script/ trunk/Padre/xt/
12:12 waxhead thanks Alias
12:12 waxhead I'm just testing it here
12:12 * Alias too
12:13 Alias Then, assuming everything passes, I'm heading to $work
12:13 waxhead want me to branch for release tonight?
12:13 waxhead or do you want another day to finese things?
12:13 waxhead work????
12:13 waxhead now???
12:13 Alias As long as I didn't add a crash in the last hour or so, branch it now
12:13 Alias And I guess we'll discover that pretty fast
12:14 waxhead so that was all that was needed to fix that bin file problem?
12:14 Alias I'm not even sure that was a problem, since we only set that binmode stuff on write
12:14 Alias And the critic is concerned with reading
12:15 waxhead well if you have that concern, I'll leave the branch until tmorrow night... give it a few hours for others to update and check out...
12:15 waxhead I promise to branch tomorrow night, leave it a night and then roll out a new release...
12:15 Alias Nah, branch it now
12:15 Alias Any fix for any introduced crash will be trivial
12:16 Alias And the crash will be obvious and violent and I'm not seeing any atm
12:19 waxhead that bin file test still fails, but we can live with that...
12:19 waxhead OK, I'll branch now, announce hte branch for translators to do their thing and look at a release by friday...
12:20 Alias Did you dmake?
12:20 Alias er, make
12:20 shadowpaste "waxhead" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "bin file still fails test" (13 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/126306
12:20 waxhead Alias, I always perl Makefile.PL, make && make test
12:20 Alias ok
12:25 Hyppolit svn: r15085 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15085
12:25 Hyppolit Removing "Test" plugin which ends up polluting user space
12:25 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/
12:29 waxhead Alias, done yet???
12:29 waxhead I'm about to branch...
12:30 Alias I think I'm good, go for it
12:30 Alias ... he says
12:30 waxhead should we still run the tidy project script before releasing?
12:30 waxhead szabgab, ping
12:31 Sewi waxhead: It won't hurt
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12:31 waxhead it's part of the release doco, I've always done it... but was wondering if the issue had been sorted out by now so that changes don't get taken by the person doing the release...
12:32 waxhead ok, final test run then branching
12:33 Alias oh yeah, we should before we branch
12:34 Alias The problem will be fixed when Padre supports auto-tidy on save with project-configured settings :)
12:34 Alias Since a lot of the lines get stolen from me, I configure it motivation to get stuff like project policies and save hooks working properly
12:34 waxhead what's this winxs directory ?
12:35 waxhead haha
12:35 waxhead fair enough..
12:35 Alias It's a rewrite of some Win32 integration to remove the need for a Win32::API dependency
12:35 waxhead that's right, I'm riding on other peoples coat tails here...
12:35 waxhead OK, I've noticed the extra bits at the ned of a make test
12:35 waxhead Result: PASS
12:35 waxhead make[1]: Entering directory `/home/pete/Programming/Per​l/Padre/trunk/Padre/winxs'
12:35 waxhead make[1]: Nothing to be done for `test'.
12:35 waxhead make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/pete/Programming/Per​l/Padre/trunk/Padre/winxs'
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12:36 waxhead not a bit deal really
12:36 waxhead but noticable
12:36 Alias Yeah, Dootson didn't know how to integrate it into the main make stuff, so he just did it as a sub-dir
12:36 Alias Seems to work fine
12:37 waxhead yeah, it's not a show stopper
12:38 Alias Slightly inelegant, but hey one less dep is one less dep
12:38 Alias I'm pretty sure it makes a real different in the boot up
12:38 Hyppolit svn: r15086 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15086
12:38 Hyppolit setting the release version number for upcoming release 0.88
12:38 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
12:38 Alias Especially since Win32::API is a 64-bit blocker atm
12:39 Hyppolit svn: r15087 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15087
12:39 Hyppolit perl tidy project prior to release 0.88
12:39 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/Menu/ trunk/Padre/script/ trunk/Padre/xt/
12:42 Hyppolit svn: r15088 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15088
12:42 Hyppolit setting version 0.88 for release
12:42 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/lib/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Browser/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Config/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DB/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/DB/Migrate/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Document/Perl/QuickFix/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/File/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/PPI/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Plugin/PopularityContest/ trunk/Padre/
12:42 szabgab waxhead: pong
12:43 waxhead szabgab, it's OK, I was going to ask about the tidy project thing before a release...
12:43 szabgab yeah tidy
12:43 waxhead it was decided that it still gets done
12:43 szabgab so we are going to have a release soon, great
12:43 waxhead until Alias fixes up the per project policies so that I don't steal his code lines with the clean up prior to release.. :)
12:43 szabgab even though we have some regressions
12:44 waxhead yep, shooting for friday, about to branch
12:44 szabgab good
12:44 waxhead do we?
12:44 Alias Well, the release manager should still tidy and steal everything
12:44 waxhead I don't think so.. :)
12:44 Alias But the policy stuff would make it easier for someone who hates Perl Tidy to have it done without thinking about it :)
12:44 waxhead I've not contributed a line of code of ages...
12:44 Alias So the end result is that you'd gain less
12:45 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Release changed by waxhead
12:47 Hyppolit svn: r15089 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15089
12:47 Hyppolit Branching HEAD for release 0.88, announcement in dev list to follow.
12:47 Hyppolit branches/
12:48 Hyppolit svn: r15090 | waxhead++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15090
12:48 Hyppolit setting the next version numbers for dev cycle and next release
12:48 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
12:49 Alias I tweaked some fairly high profile menu entries (or at least, the capitalisation of them) and moved others around, to there's probably more of a localisation effort than usual needed
12:50 Alias Next release will be worse though :(
12:50 Alias ATM Form Builder generates "Name:" as Wx::gettext("Name:")
12:50 Alias I plan to change that to have it generate something like Wx::gettext("Name") . ':'
12:50 Alias Ditto with trailing ... and other trailing things
12:51 * Alias afk
12:52 Hyppolit svn: r15091 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15091
12:52 Hyppolit link to blog of tome
12:52 Hyppolit trunk/template.padre.perlide.org/data/
12:54 waxhead funny, if I hadn't watched big bang theory I'd not have got AFK straight away..
12:54 waxhead who says TV doesn't teach you things?
12:55 waxhead OK, branch is now done..
12:56 waxhead I'll do the release on friday night... I'll keep a track of things via the backlog over the next couple of days at work, just to make sure I'm across any issues discovered before release.
13:05 Alias neato
13:07 Alias Open question to the non-English folks, what would you think about auto-translating Padre with Google"?
13:07 Alias Or more precisely, potentially having two sets of messages files, one which is hand-translated as normal and an "enhanced" one which fills in untranslated gaps with Google
13:08 Alias And then we make it a menu option or something to turn on the auto-translation stuff
13:08 Sewi Alias: I'ld like to put 2-3 of my CPAN modules on a "public" editable svn. May put them on yours or do you only host modules you're releasing?
13:08 Alias Nope, it's completely open
13:09 Alias Lots of people have kept their stuff in my repo from time to time
13:09 Alias Although I recommend keeping Padre stuff in the Padre repo
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13:10 Sewi It's not Padre stuff, otherwise I'ld commit it to the Padre svn
13:11 Alias righto, then sure
13:11 Alias The repo structure is fairly similar to Padre
13:11 Alias The whole "one big trunk" model
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13:11 Alias But it works well for modules, since branching is usually rare
13:11 Sewi How do I apply for a commit bit?
13:12 zenog Alias: Auto translation is a very bad idea IMHO.
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13:12 Alias Would some translation be better than none for some audiences?
13:12 Alias zenog: What if it was off by default and you had to turn it on explicitly
13:13 * Sewi prefers English vs. auto
13:13 Alias Sewi: What's your cpan id?
13:13 zenog Alias: I know there are people who prefer their native language vs. English. That is natural.
13:14 zenog Alias: But it is highly unlikely that Google will come up with good translations for UI messages.
13:14 Alias Even for terms?
13:14 zenog Alias: I doubt there will be much improvement over no translation.
13:14 Alias Show Comments
13:14 Alias etc
13:14 Alias Search Term
13:14 Alias etc
13:14 Sewi Alias: SEWI
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13:15 zenog Alias: It will work somewhere between 25% and 75% accuracy, I guess.
13:15 Alias Sewi: Account added
13:15 Alias I recommend you check out trunk rather than root
13:15 Sniper I agree with zenog. I am a non-English fol and my english is really bad but I hate auto translated messages/UI. UI messages are almost always the same. We can recognize them.
13:15 Alias The root is, well, big
13:15 Sewi Alias: thanks
13:16 zenog Alias: For simple stuff it will work, but there is not only simple stuff.
13:16 Sewi Alias: http://goo.gl/W38bd
13:16 Alias Trouble is I see a lot of translations with pretty bad coverage
13:16 Sewi Correct would be: Padre is an IDE written for and in Perl
13:16 zenog Alias: I do not think that translations is the thing where Padre sucks most.
13:17 Alias zenog: This isn't about priorities :)
13:17 zenog Alias: Translations will come in naturally if we make it easy for people to contribute, which I think we already do.
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13:17 Alias I guess I'm thinking more about people in countries where English is not so comprehensively and early taught
13:17 Alias So I guess some translations like maybe Arabic are more important than others
13:18 Alias Although I trust auto-translation to Arabic the least of all :)
13:18 Alias I wonder if we could avoid the problem of bad translation by acknowledging it
13:18 Alias "Enable Shitty Autotranslation"
13:19 zenog I won't keep anyone from implementing that, as long it does not get in the way. I am just not convinced it will do too much good.
13:19 Alias We would, of course, have to ensure that "Enable Shitty Autotranslation" was only ever human-translated :)
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13:21 Alias Anyways, if you guys don't think it's worth it, I have other things to do :)
13:22 zenog Alias: So in the end, it is about priorities ;-)
13:23 waxhead unlike Alias I can't function without sleep
13:23 waxhead night
13:23 Alias It's not that I don't sleep, it's just I live close enough to work that I can wake up at about 9:30 and still be on time :)
13:24 Alias ooo, bugs
13:24 Alias I found some mistakes in relocale
13:25 Alias We don't relocale the "Search" string in the project tree, or "Untitled 1"
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13:36 Hyppolit svn: r15092 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15092
13:36 Hyppolit Nothing has changed.... yet
13:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/
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14:51 Hyppolit svn: r15093 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15093
14:51 Hyppolit - The directory tree supports relocale correctly (ADAMK)
14:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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15:11 Hyppolit svn: r15094 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15094
15:11 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
15:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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15:27 zenog Just installed Debian 6.0 and then Padre via apt, works fine ... (v 0.63)
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15:53 Hyppolit svn: r15095 | adamk++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15095
15:53 Hyppolit - The notebook supports relocale correctly for "Unsaved X" files (ADAMK)
15:53 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/ trunk/Padre/lib/Padre/Wx/
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16:21 Alias night
16:21 Alias left #padre
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16:24 zenog Alias++ night
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16:37 szabgab zenog: ping
16:39 szabgab any non-English speaker awake here ?
16:41 zenog szabgab: Here I am ...
16:41 zenog szabgab: pong
16:42 szabgab so Sniper came up with the idea of creating subtitles for my screencasts
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16:42 szabgab in various languages
16:43 zenog szabgab: Nice idea. Sniper++
16:43 szabgab so I wonder if you or anyone else here would be interested to give it a try?
16:43 zenog szabgab: You mean watching or translating?
16:44 szabgab I would create the English version of the subtitles file
16:44 szabgab text with timestamp
16:44 szabgab and then it can be translated more easily than from the watching
16:45 szabgab but I guess it would require some watching as well :)
16:46 szabgab I have to go to pick up my daughter now but I'll be back!
16:46 zenog szabgab: I am currently writing my thesis, so I have not too much time, but maybe I am sometimes in the mood to translate in the evening hours.
16:46 zenog szabgab: Once the files are there, maybe some volunteers step up anyway ...
16:49 Hyppolit svn: r15096 | zenogantner++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15096
16:49 Hyppolit update German translation
16:49 Hyppolit branches/Padre-0.88/share/locale/
16:55 Hyppolit # 1265 :  Padre::Plugin::FormBuilder can't find wxfb.png, have to make install, so as to access png, why as it only works againt trunk!!! (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1265 ]
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19:11 Hyppolit svn: r15097 | szabgab++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/15097
19:11 Hyppolit Update the messages.pot file
19:11 Hyppolit trunk/Padre/share/locale/
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22:17 Hyppolit # 1266 :  Padre::Plugin::PerlCritic, fix for missing version (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1266 ]
22:22 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Plugins changed by bowtie
22:31 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Plugins changed by bowtie
22:34 Hyppolit # 1239 :  Padre::Plugin::PerlTidy, patch for using perltidyrc from trunk/tools when in dev (new enhancement) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1239#comment:1 ]
22:37 Hyppolit # 1239 :  Padre::Plugin::PerlTidy, patch for using perltidyrc from trunk/tools when in dev (assigned enhancement) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1239#comment:2 ]
22:40 Hyppolit # 1227 :  Padre::Plugin::FormBuilder::Perl, patch to add POD to plugin dialogs (assigned enhancement) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1227#comment:1 ]
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23:39 Hyppolit # 1267 :  dummy package to negate warning:  DIE: Can't locate Wx/Loader/Custom.pm in @INC (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1267 ]
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