Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2012-02-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 bowtie left #padre
01:02 asarch joined #padre
05:41 sewi joined #padre
07:21 azawawi joined #padre
07:22 azawawi good morning
07:22 perlite_ joined #padre
07:34 [Sno] joined #padre
07:50 azawawi MooseX::Declare doesnt install cleanly on my win32 dev...
07:50 azawawi hmmm
08:06 dodathome joined #padre
08:14 waxhead joined #padre
08:15 azawawi waxhead: hi
08:15 mj41 joined #padre
08:17 Di-ima joined #padre
08:44 dolmen joined #padre
09:15 Hyppolit svn: r18357 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18357
09:15 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Added q{ my $self = shift } to method body. Subtype has now a base type and is usable now. Still no value validation.
09:15 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
09:35 abraxxa joined #padre
09:35 abraxxa ORLite 1.90 and 1.91 breaks padre
09:35 abraxxa Expected to update 1 row, actually updated 0E0 at (eval 1901) line 525.
09:36 azawawi abraxxa: hi.. any other output?
09:37 shadowpaste "abraxxa" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "ORLite 1.90 and 1.91 breakage errors" (14 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/183619
09:39 azawawi i think you need to follow up with this on padre mailing list
09:39 azawawi this is serious
09:40 azawawi backup ~/.padre && padre --reset?
09:40 azawawi s/&&/and then/ :)
09:42 abraxxa Padre is misbehaving on this box forever
09:42 abraxxa high cpu usage
09:42 abraxxa at home its fine, here not
09:42 abraxxa i've already deleted .padre in the past wihtout success
09:43 abraxxa btw its ~/.local/share/.padre here
09:43 abraxxa ubuntu 11.10
09:44 abraxxa should i upgrade orlite again after --reset?
09:45 azawawi abraxxa: yup
09:45 azawawi the best thing is to perlbrew stuff...
09:45 abraxxa works
09:45 abraxxa i do that
09:46 abraxxa can i get at least my saved sessions back?
09:49 azawawi it is stores in sqlite so you can copy/insert it again :)
09:51 abraxxa is there a gui for sqlite you can recommend to do this?
09:52 abraxxa what about copying the old config.db file? will that bring my problems back?
09:55 azawawi i think so
09:55 azawawi let me try the one with firefox :)
09:57 abraxxa the lauchner is also a massive pain
09:57 daxim joined #padre
09:57 azawawi select * from session and select * from session_file
09:57 azawawi the launcher?
09:57 abraxxa padre now starts from the terminal, but not from the launcher
09:58 abraxxa unity in ubuntu
09:59 azawawi i havent upgrade to 11.10
09:59 azawawi s/upgrade/upgraded/
10:02 shadowpaste "abraxxa" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "my padre.desktop file" (11 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/183621
10:02 abraxxa this doesn't work any more
10:04 abraxxa new error: Can't use string ("Padre::DB::SessionFile") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at (eval 1901) line 1268.
10:04 Hyppolit svn: r18358 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18358
10:04 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Class members can be added now when inside a class/role. There is no need to click on the parent again as before.
10:04 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
10:04 abraxxa --reset fixed it again
10:06 abraxxa as soon as i change preferences
10:11 abraxxa preferences aren't saved now
10:14 abraxxa i get this error when closing padre
10:16 abraxxa downgrading orlite to 1.54 fixes it
10:28 sewi ping szabgab
10:41 bowtie joined #padre
10:41 bowtie gm
10:42 bowtie abraxxa++
10:43 Hyppolit svn: r18359 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18359
10:43 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Jumping from one leaf class member to another result in invalid parent calculation for the next addition
10:43 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
10:44 shadowpaste "bowtie" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "Padre on perl 5.15.8" (21 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/183624
10:44 bowtie abraxxa, nice catch, I concur down grade orlite to 1.54 fixes issue
10:47 bowtie what I don't understand is why ORLite went from 1.54 -> 1.90/1
11:22 Hyppolit svn: r18360 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18360
11:22 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] The dialog is now modal and is resident until the plugin is disabled. Generate closes the dialog but does not destroy your work. Added "reset" button
11:22 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/l​ib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/FBP/
11:23 bowtie azawawi, ping
11:34 Hyppolit svn: r18361 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18361
11:34 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Dialog 2.000001 :)
11:34 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/l​ib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/FBP/
11:42 bowtie azawawi, if a class name is typed in all lower case should you not first char Upper, need another check box, 1st Chr where applicable :)
11:43 Mithaldu joined #padre
11:44 Hyppolit svn: r18362 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18362
11:44 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Disable adding class members when you're over Program node
11:44 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
11:45 azawawi bowtie: no validation yet
11:45 bowtie azawawi, ok,
11:45 bowtie it's just running feedback
11:45 azawawi the question is it in its current form usable or not? :)
11:45 bowtie azawawi, getting better every day
11:46 azawawi and do i know how to create gui designers or not? :)
11:46 azawawi wxformbuilder... same idea :)
11:46 azawawi once perfected... we moved to that fertile land :)
11:47 bowtie azawawi, you will probably change your mind and adjust as you go along
11:47 bowtie azawawi, can I use 'sub plugin_enable' just like 'sub setup' called from new
11:48 azawawi yup
11:48 bowtie I want to test and check the plugin config info
11:49 bowtie you say yup, but I can not run $self->config_read
11:49 azawawi better idea...
11:50 azawawi on first menu item invocation lazy setup? :)
11:51 bowtie lol, who't No Moose in Padre
12:01 Hyppolit svn: r18363 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18363
12:01 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Releasing & testing 0.08 with the following changes:
12:01 Hyppolit - Refactored the dialog to be modal and improved its UI
12:01 Hyppolit - The dialog is resident until the plugin is disabled.
12:01 Hyppolit - Generate closes the dialog but does not destroy your work. Added "reset" button
12:01 Hyppolit - Class members can be added now when inside a class/role. There is no need to click on the parent again as before.
12:01 Hyppolit - Disable adding class members when you're over Program node
12:01 Hyppolit - Added q{ my $self = shift } to generated method body.
12:01 Hyppolit - Subtype has now a base type and is usable now.
12:01 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
12:07 azawawi http://ahmadzawawi.blogspot.com/20​12/02/padre-moose-plugin-008.html  :)
12:08 azawawi cpanm http://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/A/AZ​/AZAWAWI/Padre-Plugin-Moose-0.08.tar.gz
12:11 bowtie azawawi, when we use dialog or panel in Padre, padre calls sub run, how do we make plugins do this?
12:20 azawawi my $dialog = Padre::Wx::Dialog::Patch->new( $self->main ); $dialog->run; $dialog->Destroy;   # :)
12:20 bowtie azawawi, you as always were correct, plugin_enable works, thanks
12:21 azawawi bowtie: what do you think is missing from P:P:Moose
12:21 azawawi bowtie: i need feedback :)
12:22 azawawi bowtie: I hunger for feedback which is something the Perl community seems not to provide :)
12:25 bowtie azawawi, I know the felling, i will go through in detail later today, but an initial observation is why put Rules in same file when M-pbp suggest a single project file for all roles, hows that as a starter
12:26 bowtie single file, or collection of files
12:26 azawawi option to generate single or collection... check
12:27 bowtie do you follow the Moose bp ?
12:27 azawawi sure
12:27 azawawi the ones i read :)
12:27 bowtie just asking
12:28 azawawi maybe i need to read a bit about https://metacpan.org/module/Moose::Manual::MooseX
12:28 bowtie save silly debates regardless of option or personal habits how ever good
12:29 bowtie as you have a background in Java, I thought you would go for MooseX::declare option, nice and crisp and clean
12:29 azawawi MooseX::StrictConstructor  # cool
12:32 bowtie azawawi, an aside question, how do i colour tt2 in Padre, also coffescript in tt2?
12:32 azawawi hard question :)
12:32 azawawi you know that's the problem of scintilla and lexers
12:33 azawawi basically lexer's are no in-vocable alone
12:33 bowtie azawawi, do I need as i did with bash, and add another section to my theme.txt
12:34 G1 joined #padre
12:34 bowtie s/need as/need to do as/
12:35 azawawi "...You can use a Lua lexer with scintillua which includes Lua. The standard installation of Scintilla does not include Lua so can not use Lua lexers...."
12:35 G1 Hi All,
12:35 azawawi brb 10 times
12:35 azawawi s/time/minutes/  # :)
12:35 G1 how do can I change the syntax highlighting color ?
12:36 bowtie G1, hi
12:36 G1 Hi <bowtie>
12:36 bowtie tools -> prefs have a good look around lots for you to configure
12:38 G1 i am using padre v 0.842
12:39 G1 when I am using system commands its coming in a light orange color which is hardly visible
12:39 G1 and I just wanted to change it
12:40 Hyppolit # 1404 :  ORLite 1.90 and 1.91 breaks Padre (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1404 ]
12:41 bowtie G1, what OS?
12:41 G1 window$
12:41 G1 xp
12:42 bowtie G1 suggest you look at upgrading to 0.94 see -> http://dwimperl.com/
12:46 Hyppolit # 1404 :  ORLite 1.90 and 1.91 breaks Padre (new defect) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1404#comment:1 ]
12:56 G1 i am not in a position to upgrade nw
12:56 G1 so any other options ?
13:10 abraxxa bowtie: thanks for opening the issue
13:10 azawawi bowtie: ping
13:10 azawawi bowtie: $self->main->[yes_no|error] are bad :)
13:10 azawawi bowtie: and ->message
13:10 azawawi bowtie: guess why? :)
13:11 bowtie abraxxa, good catch,
13:11 bowtie azawawi, pong active
13:11 azawawi abraxxa++ # Great catch
13:11 bowtie yes abraxxa++ # Great catch
13:12 bowtie azawawi, why
13:13 azawawi bowtie: dialog parent is main... not yours :)
13:14 azawawi bowtie: hence when you open modal A and call $self->main->error(...)
13:14 azawawi bowtie: when you close it, it will try to go there
13:14 bowtie ok, got that, so where should it go
13:15 azawawi Wx::AboutBox(...) same problem
13:15 El_Che azawawi: I talked about you yesterday. There was someone that writes is own Moose interfaces to Wx
13:15 azawawi bowtie: aha... It is a role...
13:16 bowtie cheese and tomato, lol
13:16 azawawi bowtie: then $self->main->message(...) is bad
13:16 azawawi bowtie: $self should do ::Role::Dialog
13:16 bowtie azawawi, why not hide first
13:16 azawawi bowtie: $self->message(...)
13:17 azawawi bowtie: hide is bad practise... the user will simply say wtf... :)
13:17 azawawi El_Che: cool
13:17 azawawi El_Che: what about it?
13:17 bowtie azawawi, ok
13:17 El_Che I told him "wait a year until azawawi finish his moosifying of Wx" :)
13:18 azawawi i hate writing: my $index; for my $element (@elements) { ....; $index++; }   # any better way to write that? :)
13:19 El_Che state ?
13:19 azawawi my $index = 0; # that is
13:19 azawawi yup
13:19 azawawi iterator
13:19 azawawi i hate that
13:19 El_Che no put "state $index;" in the loop
13:20 azawawi hmmm, 5.10? :)
13:20 El_Che one global less
13:20 El_Che yes
13:21 El_Che http://perldoc.perl.org/5.​10.0/functions/state.html
13:21 El_Che volatile :)
13:21 El_Che in other parts of the world
13:21 azawawi maybe closure... :)
13:22 El_Che for my $index ($#elements) { .... }
13:23 El_Che $element[$index] to be used inside the loop
13:23 azawawi for my $fruit (qw(apples oranges mangos)) { state $index = 0; say "#" . $index++ . " is $fruit"; }
13:23 azawawi El_Che: you know what... iterators need a hidden index :)
13:23 azawawi El_Che: we just keep writing it over and over ... :)
13:24 azawawi El_Che++ # state variables :)
13:24 azawawi any shorter syntax?
13:26 El_Che the classic C for loop?
13:27 azawawi my @fruits = qw(apples oranges mangos); for (0..$#fruits) { say "#$_ is " . $fruits[$_]; }
13:28 El_Che ah that
13:28 El_Che a map maybe?
13:28 azawawi rubyish...
13:28 El_Che if you get functional
13:28 azawawi { |element, index| .... }
13:28 azawawi :)
13:29 El_Che map { say "#$_ is " . $fruits[$_]; }, (0..$#fruits)
13:30 El_Che the comma can go
13:30 azawawi nice...
13:31 grafne joined #padre
13:31 grafne hi all
13:31 grafne anyone around?
13:32 grafne guess not then ;-)
13:32 El_Che azawawi: there is also use List::MoreUtils qw(firstidx);
13:32 El_Che hi grafne
13:32 grafne hi :-)
13:32 grafne does anyone know anythign abotu the debugger?
13:33 grafne god my typing is rubbish today
13:34 El_Che bowtie knows his way around
13:34 El_Che (until now I have only used the command line (-d) version)
13:35 bowtie grafne, hi
13:35 Hyppolit svn: r18364 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18364
13:35 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Add ::CanHandleInspector :) Attribute minor name refactoring... various inspector refactorings
13:35 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
13:35 bowtie El_Che, then you can use the one in Padre, try the 'Raw' button
13:36 bowtie El_Che, i look forward to your critiques
13:37 bowtie don't forget to look at -> http://padre.perlide.org/trac​/wiki/Features/Perl5Debugger
13:38 Hyppolit svn: r18365 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18365
13:38 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] More perlish syntax and global Perl tidy
13:38 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
13:38 bowtie azawawi, what was your answer to tt2 and coffescript
13:41 grafne joined #padre
13:41 grafne sorry... lost last load of messages.. did anyone say yes to debugger knowledge?
13:42 Hyppolit svn: r18366 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18366
13:42 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Started a big Alias++-style name refactoring :) roles belong to the ::Role namespace
13:42 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/li​b/Padre/Plugin/Moose/Role/
13:42 azawawi bowtie: basically you cannot re-use a lexer in another
13:43 azawawi bowtie: if we're talking about embedded lexers that is
13:44 bowtie azawawi, ok I can settle for just tt2 or coffeescript then
13:45 bowtie azawawi, like -> http://perleclipse.com/TTEditor/
13:45 azawawi coffeescript not supported in core scintilla
13:45 azawawi tt2 same...
13:45 azawawi your best bet to write one :)
13:46 azawawi in Perl
13:47 bowtie azawawi, I have always liked eclipse, but for perl, padre is better, and I like perl
13:48 Hyppolit svn: r18367 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18367
13:48 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Minor fixes to big refactoring effort
13:48 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
14:03 Hyppolit svn: r18368 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18368
14:03 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Now each element in the tree now how to handle the inspector :)
14:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
14:36 Hyppolit svn: r18369 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18369
14:36 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] has 'attribute'; # is now supported, no default values. Just the basics :) Better attribute/subtype code generation
14:36 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
14:39 * azawawi starts reading about Wx::GridCellChoiceEditor
14:49 mj41 hmm, Probably some "Reload all" regression ...  if you change file in other process than Padre ... reload dialog is shown, but document is not reloaded
14:49 mj41 revision 18369, will test late evening
14:50 bowtie mj41, like a live lock or is it dead lock
14:51 Hyppolit svn: r18370 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18370
14:51 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] ::Role::CanHandleInspector now requires 'get_grid_data'. No global %INSPECTOR in ::Main
14:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/li​b/Padre/Plugin/Moose/Role/
14:52 mj41 bowtie: maybe this is only "replace in files" related
14:54 aero joined #padre
14:54 Hyppolit svn: r18371 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18371
14:54 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] ::Main now does('Padre::Wx::Role::Dialog'). Alias++
14:54 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
14:56 aero Padre on Win32 doesn't shutdown clearly with X button after upgrading ORLite module.
14:56 mj41 bowtie: needs more testing ... probably if you replace in more than one file than only one si reloaded by "reload" dialog
14:56 aero and There is compatibility problem with config.db file.
14:58 mj41 bowtie: and "File - Reload all" doesn't help ... but "File - Reload" on not reloaded file is ok
14:58 bowtie aero, down grade ORLite to v1.54, please add to ticket #1404
14:58 Hyppolit # 1404 :  ORLite 1.90 and 1.91 breaks Padre (new defect) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1404#comment:1 ]
14:59 bowtie mj41,  I will let you open a ticket for this, thanks
15:01 aero I solved it with  deleting previous config file and let Padre recreate it.
15:01 mj41 bowtie: confirmed, it is probably somehow related to reloading of more than one file
15:02 Hyppolit svn: r18372 | bowtie++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18372
15:02 Hyppolit fix the config DB to check on enable for past and new install
15:02 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/lib/Padre/Plugin/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck​/lib/Padre/Plugin/SpellCheck/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/t/
15:02 mj41 bowtie: "File - Reload - Reload All" is also broken
15:03 Hyppolit svn: r18373 | bowtie++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18373
15:03 Hyppolit Bump version to 1.23
15:03 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck​/lib/Padre/Plugin/SpellCheck/ trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/l​ib/Padre/Plugin/SpellCheck/FBP/
15:03 aero Padre on Win32 doesn't shutdown clearly with X button after upgrading ORLite module. process still exist after windows disappearing
15:04 aero but no problem with File->Quit menu.
15:05 Hyppolit svn: r18374 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18374
15:05 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] PerlTidy and we use a simple about that is modal friendly :)
15:05 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
15:06 Hyppolit svn: r18375 | bowtie++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18375
15:06 Hyppolit update Changes
15:06 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/
15:07 Hyppolit svn: r18376 | bowtie++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18376
15:07 Hyppolit update Changes
15:07 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-SpellCheck/
15:09 bowtie mj41, why don't you also add that or create an additional ticket, thanks
15:17 Hyppolit svn: r18377 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18377
15:17 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Added missing require. And element positioning in preview editor is not the confusing-centerize-position :)
15:17 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
15:19 Hyppolit svn: r18378 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18378
15:19 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] POD update regarding methods.
15:19 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/
15:33 Hyppolit svn: r18379 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18379
15:33 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Stop doing that grid focus automatically. It screws up navigation :)
15:33 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/
15:35 Hyppolit # 1405 :  Reload of more than one file regression (new defect) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1405 ]
15:37 bowtie aero, what version of ORLite are you running?
15:48 bowtie azawawi, Info, you have moved your ellipsis, it now shows up in Plugin Manager
15:49 Hyppolit svn: r18380 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18380
15:49 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Update ::FBP version to 0.08
15:49 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/l​ib/Padre/Plugin/Moose/FBP/
15:51 kaare joined #padre
15:51 Hyppolit svn: r18381 | azawawi++ | http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/18381
15:51 Hyppolit [P-P-Moose] Fixed ellipsis in plugin manager (bowtie++)
15:51 Hyppolit trunk/Padre-Plugin-Moose/lib/Padre/Plugin/
15:52 azawawi now the 'delete' button...
15:52 azawawi :)
15:52 bowtie lol
15:53 * azawawi time for home &
15:54 bowtie azawawi, night
15:54 azawawi night &
15:56 kaare_ joined #padre
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16:18 andmott joined #padre
16:18 andmott hello
16:23 bowtie andmott, hi
16:27 andmott bowtie, hello, I want to get involved with Padre development
16:28 bowtie andmott, that's good, what do you want to do?
16:30 andmott bowtie, well honestly, I ultimately want to get involved in the coding process, but I just want to get started and set up looking at the current development code
16:30 bowtie andmott, are you registered yet?
16:30 andmott bowtie, I like Padre a lot.  I use it on my Windows machine.  I've tried to install it through CPAN on my Mac and Linux but it wont go
16:31 andmott bowtie, no I didnt know there was a registration
16:31 bowtie andmott, ok let's start with registration, follow link
16:32 bowtie Hyppolit, trac!
16:32 Hyppolit Trac registration opened for 5 minutes. Please visit http://padre.perlide.org/trac/register to register
16:33 bowtie andmott, for Padre on OSX see -> http://wildperl.com/ by tome
16:34 bowtie for linux start here -> http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download
16:35 andmott andmott, cool thanks I registered
16:37 Hyppolit Trac registration closed
16:37 bowtie andmott, what is your time zone, mine is GMT +0
16:38 andmott bowtie, it is GMT - 5
16:39 andmott bowtie, I'm just going to work on getting the development code on my machine, and other stuff the website says to get involved with
16:40 bowtie andmott, good that was my next suggestion :)
16:43 bowtie andmott, there is a lot of useful info in wiki, take your time, also look at current and past tickets some are fun :)
16:43 andmott bowtie, cool thanks for your help
16:46 bowtie andmott, just start asking questions
16:46 bowtie are you into Moose?
16:48 jq bowtie: would it be possible to drop the requires on text::aspell in padre-plugin-spellcheck?
16:48 jq (since now hunspell can be used too)
16:49 andmott bowtie, I like Moose, I know how to use it
16:49 jq bowtie: oh, it seems that hunspell is not yet supported, is it?
16:50 bowtie jq, I have only got the display local dictionaries working at present, still got to use the hunspell engine, thanks for critique
16:50 jq so hunspell works. in that case, please consider dropping text::aspell as a requires
16:52 Di-ima joined #padre
16:52 bowtie andmott, can you check out Padre-Plugin-Moose (P-P-Moose) and put a cretique here for azawawi as he is working on it, thanks, or you can put it in a ticket with him as the owner
16:52 andmott bowtie, ok thanks
16:53 bowtie jq, when hunspell is working I will have to drop text-aspell from makefile and rely on plugin_enabled
16:55 bowtie andmott, try running the plugin from local trunk with perl dev -a, then you will be upto date
16:55 El_Che the plugin from svn doesn't do much
16:55 El_Che (or anything)
16:57 El_Che and it fails the test
16:57 El_Che s
16:58 El_Che let's try the one from cpan
16:59 El_Che that's better :)
16:59 bowtie El_Che, are you going to update P-P-svn
16:59 bowtie El_Che, to use FormBuilder
17:00 bowtie dialogs
17:01 El_Che i see it's broken
17:01 bowtie El_Che, it needs bring back to life
17:05 El_Che I'll pop back to get pointers how to get started with Formbuilder
17:06 bowtie El_Che, start here -> http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/wiki/PadrePluginDialog
17:06 bowtie aka Cookbook
17:06 El_Che bookmarked
17:06 El_Che thx
17:07 El_Che I am looking at the list of plugins
17:07 El_Che what's broken
17:07 El_Che have there been discussions lately to get the perltidy plugin into core?
17:09 bowtie El_Che, for plugins look here -> http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Plugins
17:10 bowtie El_Che, I need to update the page a bit, ie spellcheck and add Moose
17:11 bowtie El_Che, what about, your idea about being able to select a local-lib / perlbrew in tools ->prefs ->perl5
17:16 El_Che I still think it's good :)
17:16 El_Che but not a lot of time on my hands
17:18 bowtie El_Che, how's your wiki port of perlbrew install of padre comming along ?
17:24 El_Che to make a wiki page from my blog post?
17:26 bowtie El_Che, yes, probably here -> http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download
17:28 El_Che I wonder if a link would be enough
17:28 El_Che anyway, I discovered a nice perl project to create native packages for whatever linux distro you want
17:30 bowtie El_Che, I think it needs a Perlbrew page, with your blogs inside, but it's up to you, it's a perl thing :)
17:30 El_Che ok, i'll do that
17:31 bowtie El_Che, cool
17:40 asarch joined #padre
17:45 dodathome joined #padre
17:55 szabgab guys, I think I'd like to run a little poll here
17:55 szabgab what do you think are the coolest projects in perl?
17:55 szabgab besides Padre of course :)
17:56 szabgab El_Che, bowtie I saw you were here 20 min ago :)
17:56 bowtie szabgab, hi
17:57 bowtie szabgab, plack
18:03 bowtie szabgab, Moose
18:03 szabgab something that can be interesting for people not using perl yet
18:05 bowtie a lobotomy
18:05 bowtie full frontal
18:08 szabgab bowtie:  why do you type these things?
18:08 bowtie ok, seriously, the ones that try linux, it has to be system tools, how perl can make there life easer
18:09 szabgab web suff?
18:11 bowtie szabgab, why perl for web stuff, the demographic you are talking about will not be able to host, hence why web
18:11 bowtie only pages
18:12 bowtie most isp will offer php
18:13 bowtie szabgab, what's your demographic?
18:32 ingy joined #padre
18:36 El_Che hey szabgab
18:37 szabgab hi El_Che
18:37 szabgab the "how can we find perl programmers" raised it ugly head again
18:38 El_Che as "we are a company and we don't find programmers"?
18:38 szabgab so I thought: if companies want more people to already know perl and web stuff then they should make sure there are coool things in perl
18:38 szabgab El_Che: yes that question
18:39 szabgab so what can a company do about that?
18:39 El_Che often that questions means "we don't find people at the salary we offer" or "that a wider problem than perl alone"
18:39 szabgab maybe they can find already existing cool projects and ask finance the developers a bit?
18:39 El_Che as in booking.com seem to have no trouble finding perl people
18:39 szabgab El_Che: oh they do
18:40 El_Che or in my case, we have been looking for a middleware admin for over a year
18:40 szabgab they pay tons of money to TPF
18:40 El_Che (good pay)
18:40 szabgab and go to every workshop there is
18:40 szabgab and they don't pay a lt as I understand
18:40 El_Che more wider - and that's why I like your question - is how do we make perl attractive again
18:40 El_Che lt?
18:41 szabgab lot
18:41 El_Che at the place I work, we have dozens of java programmers
18:41 El_Che most of them are terrible
18:41 szabgab El_Che: I know how I can make perl attractive again and I do it but I also try to think what can a company do
18:42 El_Che if someone has really the money, pay someone to fix what's bad in perl
18:42 szabgab (I do what I can which is of course not much ) but I would like to help companies in a way that might be good for the community as well
18:42 El_Che e.g. a better threading model, a better OO model
18:43 szabgab what's bad in perl?
18:43 szabgab so you think all the trouble is in the core?
18:43 El_Che I am not saying they need to pay someone 100%, but rather like google does
18:43 El_Che 80% rock star programmer for the company, 20% for perl or something like that
18:43 szabgab well so Booking does put quite some money in p5p via TPF
18:44 Steffen joined #padre
18:44 El_Che and therefor better is in a better shape than it was some years ago
18:44 El_Che and therefor perl is in a better shape than it was some years ago
18:44 szabgab I was thinking to suggest that they contact the devlopers of certain projects and ask them if they would like to get some money
18:45 Steffen Admittedly late to the debate, but I fail to see how that makes sense.
18:45 szabgab Steffen: what I say?
18:46 Steffen "hey, dev, here, money"?
18:46 szabgab not like that
18:46 El_Che szabgab: I think that Perl needs to wow people as it used to do. It has still a lot of wow, but on some respects we need to do better (out of the box OO, better threading, better error handling)
18:46 El_Che people that know other languages, will miss those thing
18:46 szabgab "hey, dev, could you do more of this if you got some money?"
18:47 El_Che I fix those shortcoming using CPAN
18:47 szabgab or "could you add these features if you got some money?"
18:47 Steffen The answer to THAT is almost always "no"
18:47 Mithaldu joined #padre
18:47 Steffen And cases where the answer is "yes" AND the project would help achieve TPF goals are most certainl welcome.
18:47 El_Che mentioned the google model before Steffen entered the room
18:48 szabgab isn't that what nick told me on p5p a while ago?
18:48 szabgab TPF goals?
18:48 El_Che employ someone good and let him spend part of his time (let's say 20%) on Perl core or a important project
18:48 szabgab oh we are again back at TPF?
18:48 Steffen Err, I meant the question "hey, dev, could you do more of this if you got some money?"
18:48 szabgab that reminds me I made a mistake and offered my help to TPF
18:48 Steffen Yes, TPF has a mission.
18:49 szabgab and got no answer in I think 2 weeks
18:49 Steffen El_Che, so who would be a good candidate to work on the Perl core and reap clear benefits?
18:49 szabgab not yes, not no
18:49 szabgab as usual
18:49 szabgab I think I get off my soap box now
18:49 szabgab and go back to whatI have been doing
18:50 El_Che of course, google has the cash to get the top dev of project
18:50 El_Che eg the python creator
18:50 Steffen Erm. TPF is employing 1.5 of our top devs.
18:50 El_Che Steffen: thing about the numbers
18:50 El_Che I am sure the TPF does it best
18:51 El_Che but it's no huge multinational
18:51 Steffen ?
18:51 Steffen corporation? So take booking.com instead. We're a huge multinational corporation and a good chunk of the TPF money is from us.
18:51 El_Che Steffen: the difference between you and Gabor is wether to pass through the TPF or not?
18:52 El_Che Personally, I think that Perl is in a better state than some years ago
18:53 Steffen Absolutely.
18:53 szabgab Steffen: I don't understand why did you bring TPF in this discussion?
18:53 Steffen Wrong assumptions: "<szabgab> I was thinking to suggest that they contact the devlopers of certain projects and ask them if they would like to get some money"
18:54 szabgab El_Che: I think that 20%  model is also good and I'd suggest that too
18:54 Steffen Sounded like "they" being "the people with perl money"
18:54 szabgab I don't get it
18:54 szabgab who are "the people with perl money" ?
18:55 Steffen "they" in the above suggestion.
18:55 Steffen Sorry, again, false assumptions.
18:55 szabgab so who are they?
18:55 Steffen You should know, you suggested it.
18:55 szabgab what did you think ?   I am asking
18:56 Steffen TPF, of course.
18:56 szabgab oh no
18:56 Steffen That's how it got in.
18:56 szabgab I did not mean them at all
18:56 Steffen into the discussion
18:56 Steffen Right, which is why I am pointing out my false assumptions.
18:56 szabgab right then ok
18:56 szabgab so what I mean is companies  that need perl devs
18:57 szabgab and are bot called booking.com
18:57 szabgab s/bot/not/
18:57 Steffen I fail to see how that would get them developers.
18:57 szabgab as booking.com already found their avenue
18:57 szabgab of contributing money
18:57 szabgab directly not
18:58 szabgab that will help them about the same way as the TPF donatins help booking.com
18:58 szabgab I think
18:58 Steffen I doubt it.
18:58 El_Che being a little naive, and bbl while putting my kids to bed, I think that Larry's reapperance (or someone with a mega-pumpkin head) would help if it was clear what the problems were and what we want to fix (on a technical level)
18:58 szabgab getting their name out is one thing, but I think the bigger is a longer term thing
18:58 El_Che something like a road map
18:59 szabgab El_Che: that's for p5p I take
18:59 Steffen yes, that is naive, sorry.
18:59 szabgab but I think things could be done on CPAN
18:59 szabgab probably at smaller steps
18:59 El_Che Guys we want to work on better error handling, a new threading model and a way to get Moose light in core.
18:59 El_Che in quotes
18:59 El_Che RFC and join in
19:00 Steffen "better threading model" isn't going to happen.
19:00 El_Che every time I read p5p people seem to fight to death if someone wants to change comma on a perldoc
19:00 szabgab interesting, I was much more thinking about having really cool projects out ther
19:00 szabgab not core perl at all
19:00 El_Che that's also OK
19:01 El_Che 'Guys, we won't be having a new threading model for reason X'
19:01 szabgab so e.g. getting the Dancer people do more and cooler things
19:01 szabgab or pushing the SDL forward
19:01 El_Che Perl is in a lot of markets, so it's more difficult to find a posterchild
19:01 szabgab so it won't get stuck on "I need money to eat so I cannot hack on this now"
19:02 El_Che how is the TPF grant system working out? "I need €x to fix that"
19:02 El_Che are you thinking on having more cpan projects on that kind of grants
19:03 szabgab I think the money TPF offers is to small for anything
19:03 szabgab and they - as I was told - don't have more money
19:03 szabgab you can't do much with a one time 3K USD
19:03 PerlJam Hmm.
19:03 szabgab at least not if you are in the first world
19:04 PerlJam Didn't TPF recently get ~$200K in donations ?
19:04 szabgab sorry I don't want to discuss what TPF has or has not
19:04 szabgab That's their decision what they do with it and what they tell us about it
19:05 szabgab I am sure they do the best they can do
19:05 PerlJam szabgab: how about the new Camel book then?  http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596004927.do  :-)
19:05 szabgab PerlJam: what about it?
19:06 PerlJam nothing.  random topic change.
19:06 szabgab oh :)
19:06 Steffen ALL of the big donations were earmarked for perl5 core.
19:06 szabgab I bought i but have not read it yet
19:09 szabgab https://github.com/languages
19:09 szabgab PerlJam: what about that ?
19:09 szabgab why is perl so small there?
19:10 PerlJam Wish I knew
19:10 PerlJam though I think I have a bit of a clue maybe
19:10 szabgab and that is?
19:10 PerlJam the Perl community is too old.
19:10 szabgab you are telling me :)
19:10 PerlJam We have our own mechanisms for doing things that predate github and other new technology, so we are slow to change
19:11 szabgab slow to change and/or few new projects start?
19:12 PerlJam perhaps a little of both
19:12 szabgab even Java and Shell are higher!
19:12 PerlJam also we aren't doing much in the way of "selling the sizzle" for perl.
19:12 szabgab what are those shell projects anyway?
19:13 * szabgab looked up sizzle
19:13 szabgab and steak
19:13 szabgab now I am hungry :)
19:24 El_Che we have cpan
19:25 andmott cool I didnt know a new Camel book was coming out
19:25 El_Che that mean that you don't need to put your libraries all over the web (think java)
19:25 El_Che andmott: the drm-free ebook is already out at the oreilly site. The hardcopy is for the beginning of march (acording to amazon)
19:26 szabgab andmott: so you are not subscribed to the perl weekly :)
19:27 szabgab El_Che: does that really happen often in Java?
19:27 szabgab or are most of the needed libraries part of java
19:28 szabgab or well established which one to  use?
19:28 El_Che no
19:28 El_Che java sucks on that respect
19:29 El_Che try finding a good ssh lib
19:29 El_Che next to impossible
19:29 szabgab but do most developers need ssh?
19:29 szabgab library?
19:29 El_Che more often than not
19:29 szabgab or is that some relatively esoteric need?
19:29 El_Che no, they use ftp for that
19:30 szabgab clever
19:30 El_Che pretty common that apps move files around
19:30 El_Che certainly in the batch world
19:30 Hyppolit # 1406 :  Padre::Plugin::Moose 0.08 cretique as requested (new enhancement) [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1406 ]
19:30 El_Che the thing is, that good admins close non encrypted protocols
19:30 El_Che and you don't want important data whe
19:30 El_Che where the password and data is sent in clear text
19:31 szabgab often I have a bad feeling that we are so proud of cpan that we don't see many other languages don't need it becasue of variaous reasons
19:31 szabgab for example because their standard library contains what most developers need
19:31 andmott szabgab: nope I'm not subscribed to that, where do you subscribe
19:32 El_Che on the other hand, you don't need a Moose-like lib for OO nor a Parallel::ForkManager for a parallel Queue
19:32 szabgab andmott:  http://perlweekly.com/
19:32 El_Che szabgab: I agree on that
19:32 El_Che the all batteries included philosophy of java and partly python
19:33 szabgab so get me a better name for DWIM Perl :)
19:33 szabgab if you have one
19:33 El_Che I think that some things on CPAN should be core, basic things that List methods, OO, try catch, etc
19:33 El_Che other stuff, it better served on cpan
19:34 andmott szabgab: thanks
19:34 El_Che (think speed of development)
19:34 szabgab andmott: thank you :)
19:34 El_Che Tutti-Frutti Perl :)
19:34 szabgab El_Che:  I know the color of the web site
19:34 El_Che szabgab: I read perlweekly on rss and on google plus? Do i need to subscribe?
19:35 szabgab El_Che: no, but you will have to buy a quack for me :)
19:35 El_Che I understand that something as moose would never got so good so fast if it was it core
19:36 El_Che quack?
19:36 szabgab hmm, the beer
19:36 El_Che ahah
19:37 szabgab but apparently it is spelled some other way
19:37 El_Che http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co​mmons/thumb/4/4e/Kwak.jpg/264px-Kwak.jpg
19:37 szabgab El_Che: yes, that one :)
19:40 El_Che anyway
19:40 El_Che great work you bindling everything
19:40 El_Che but the name sucks :)
19:41 El_Che "DWIM Perl, it really whips the llama's ass!"
19:43 El_Che http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozmruwyHtsk
19:46 szabgab El_Che: as I said, I am open for a name change
19:47 szabgab actually I am very open for that
19:47 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download changed by claudio
19:47 El_Che the batteries included thing is obviously stolen from python, but I like it
19:47 szabgab El_Che:  how do you find such pearl?
19:48 El_Che good memory
19:48 szabgab but what, shall I call it biperl ?
19:48 szabgab it reminds me of bipolar
19:48 El_Che "Perl Batteries Included"
19:50 szabgab you know once I wanted to build a pubuntu distribution
19:50 El_Che perl ubuntu?
19:50 szabgab Ubuntu with lots of Perl
19:50 El_Che nah
19:50 El_Che a Virtualbox VM, sure, great idea
19:51 szabgab a kwak could have been the logo :)
19:51 El_Che A distro? nah
19:51 El_Che actually, that VM thing is a good idea
19:51 El_Che performance is pretty good
19:53 szabgab yeah I had that VM for my testing classes
19:54 El_Che I run Linux, but I have a windows vm and a lubuntu vpn vm
19:54 El_Che pretty good
19:55 Hyppolit # 1406 :  Padre::Plugin::Moose 0.08 cretique as requested (new enhancement) new attachment [ http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1406 ]
19:55 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download changed by claudio
20:12 Hyppolit # 1406 :  Padre::Plugin::Moose 0.08 cretique as requested (new enhancement) by bowtie  [ http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/ticket/1406#comment:1 ]
20:22 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/t​rac/wiki/DownloadPerlbrew changed by claudio
20:23 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download changed by claudio
20:23 Hyppolit wiki page http://padre.perlide.org/trac/wiki/Download changed by claudio
20:24 mj41 joined #padre
20:25 bowtie El_Che, ++
20:25 El_Che bowtie: done, you stalker :)
20:25 bowtie El_Che++
20:26 bowtie El_Che, It did not hurt that much, did it :)
20:27 El_Che and now you are a pedagogue :)
20:30 El_Che now in my perl todo list I have at nr1 bugging p5p people to finally get perl 5.14.* built on SOlaris
20:30 Hyppolit Changeset #1 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/1
20:32 bowtie El_Che, had to look it up, lol, pedagogue -> a pedantic or dogmatic teacher :)
20:34 El_Che I meant just a practicer of education science, but your definition is even better
20:34 El_Che let's take that one :)
20:45 bowtie El_Che, it was the third choice, but it made me laugh, so I shared it.
20:47 El_Che I had a laugh as well :)
20:47 bowtie El_Che, good :)
20:48 El_Che Steffen: by the way, I have a TPF sticker on my laptop and normally I don't have stickers on my computers :)
20:51 bowtie andmott, ping
21:05 Steffen :)
21:23 El_Che szabgab: list at you israeli perl workshop video makes me almost believe I understand hebrew: "something-something-something-cloud-some​thing-web-somethingsomething-schedule..."
21:23 El_Che :)
21:24 szabgab :)
21:24 El_Che do you no futurama?
21:24 El_Che you look like one of those body-less heads :)
21:24 szabgab no?
21:24 szabgab :)
21:24 bowtie El_Che, url please :)
21:25 El_Che https://plus.google.com/u/0/​105209189901369984525/posts
21:26 szabgab http://mail.perl.org.il/pipermai​l/perl/2012-February/012409.html
21:26 szabgab there are 2 videos :)
21:26 szabgab one with sawyer together
21:38 El_Che yes, found my p5p contact to fix solaris
21:40 bowtie El_Che, tell me more about body-less heads from the future, are those videos prof of life :)
21:42 El_Che http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq0ISUKp1Tg
21:44 bowtie El_Che, thanks. I get it, need another beer :)

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