Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #padre, 2012-09-02

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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09:43 azawawi hi
09:44 bowtie azawawi, gm
09:44 azawawi gm 2 u 2
09:44 bowtie lol
09:45 azawawi i have been experimenting with pedro
09:45 azawawi and today i made pedro full screen (i.e. editor)
09:45 azawawi i think full screen is one of the strong points of vim
09:45 azawawi aside of being everywhere...
09:46 bowtie pedro 0.06 worked, I had to kill all the saved tabs, in crome to stop my notebook from swapping to hd
09:46 azawawi great thanks  for trying it
09:46 azawawi most IDE UI focus on having stuff together in the same area
09:47 azawawi but in the end, you need to focus on one thing at a time
09:47 azawawi however, notifications are great if you think of it
09:47 azawawi you're writing your program and a popup on the side tells you you made an error
09:48 azawawi also if you write "my @items = ();". It will notify you that "my @item;" is a more compact and fast form
09:49 azawawi my @items;  # that is
09:49 bowtie azawawi, this is a good vim site, if only for the order things are broken down into, http://www.derekwyatt.org/
09:50 azawawi people simply like fullscreen and bigger screens :)
09:51 azawawi i remember when chrome didnt have fullscreen mode, the issue for getting fullscreen in was starred (i.e watched) a lot
09:52 azawawi im also thinking of menu clutter that we inherited from various systems
09:52 bowtie I think that's because the majority can not multi-task, it's an ms philosophy to give the impression every one can
09:52 azawawi interesting
09:52 azawawi menus are good... but could they can be displayed as a list in the center when you need them...
09:53 azawawi that's quick access menu :)
09:53 azawawi you can autocomplete the actions you need... why memorize where is it...
09:54 bowtie menu like apple/unity only works if you have one app full screen, other wise it's a right pain, thats why I use gnome shell, I got feed up with have the wrong menu displayed when selecting with mouse
09:54 azawawi yeah it sucks
09:54 azawawi i cannot align my eyes to find the menu anymore
09:55 bowtie it's not helped by having auto selection on hove turned on, which just make sense to me
09:55 azawawi a programmer's asset is his mind, his hands and his eyes
09:55 azawawi type less, less eye strain, less things to memorize :)
09:55 bowtie what about his/her little toe on the left, :)
09:56 azawawi i like also the achievement style of using something...
09:56 azawawi like https://metacpan.org/release/Perl-Achievements
09:56 azawawi making it fun
09:58 bowtie perl critic is starting to be an issue for be as it is now behind the curve, take strictures and critic yuck
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09:59 bowtie azawawi, what was that dynamic development system you suggested I look at, all gui
10:00 azawawi someone before suggested http://www.andrewbragdon.com/codebubbles_site.asp
10:01 bowtie yes codebubbles, that's the one
10:05 bowtie azawawi, what are you going to do with Wx::Scintilla
10:08 bowtie do you not think the  achievement/reward technique is better suited to beginners/intermediate level of knowledge
10:13 azawawi yup
10:13 azawawi it is a game-like experience
10:14 bowtie yes
10:14 azawawi Anyway you dont know until you try :)
10:14 azawawi think of this
10:14 azawawi fullscreen window
10:15 azawawi you're typing your program
10:15 azawawi you want to run it... you only memorize ctrl-3 (quick menu access)
10:15 azawawi it shows you a list of things to do
10:15 azawawi and the things you did recently
10:16 azawawi i.e. sorted by usage
10:16 azawawi you type 'run" and it autocomplete it
10:16 azawawi and select ok...
10:17 azawawi when you run, output, log, and other run results are not shown by default
10:17 azawawi it simply shown as a popup in the bottom right corner (for example)
10:17 azawawi when you click on it, you read the output...
10:18 bowtie are you only going to show run in this case if there are no errors
10:18 azawawi you need to be smart
10:18 azawawi but not too smart lol
10:18 azawawi e.g. smart match
10:18 azawawi ~~
10:18 bowtie are you also going to enable a reverse, in out put, as to see code which produced this
10:18 azawawi sure
10:19 azawawi i also want to display perl byte code...
10:19 azawawi people use perl but never are exposed to perl byte code
10:19 bowtie azawawi, smart-match have you read p5p dev list, there must be 200+ on that subject
10:19 azawawi yeah i follow it now
10:19 azawawi always
10:20 azawawi it shows you how a being-too-smart can create corner cases beyond the original design
10:20 azawawi s/how a/how/
10:20 azawawi that's why im focusing on fullscreen editing in pedro
10:21 bowtie as today, one could ask what is ~~, p5p !, we will just have to wait for them to ratify it :)
10:21 azawawi i like the rtfm attitude sometimes
10:21 azawawi in p5p that is
10:21 azawawi lol
10:22 azawawi pedro's new help system focus on parsing X<>
10:22 bowtie ~~ has turned into a bike-shed
10:22 azawawi so F1 can explain what this is...
10:22 azawawi again i learned from mistakes in Padre help system
10:23 azawawi e.g. being too smart ticket about a scalar...
10:23 bowtie are you going to apply this retrospectively in Padre
10:23 azawawi determining whether this a scalar / list...
10:23 azawawi hopefully
10:23 azawawi it is a fertile experiment land...
10:24 bowtie it's all good
10:24 azawawi you'll have more people who need HTML+JavaScript for UI
10:24 azawawi that wxWidgets...
10:24 azawawi given that browsers are everywhere already...
10:26 bowtie are you suggesting, that Padre editor window should be html, is this where wx 2.9 starts to come into it's own
10:27 azawawi think of the dependencies...
10:28 azawawi you want a purist approach
10:28 azawawi and cpan Padre
10:28 azawawi well that approach means installing wxWidgets
10:28 azawawi which is big
10:28 azawawi think how much did it take you to install pedro?
10:29 azawawi another important programmer asset is time ofcourse :)
10:29 bowtie so you are thinking cloud app,
10:29 azawawi nop
10:30 bowtie local / temp mojo server
10:30 azawawi you need something installable locally for companies to adopt...
10:30 azawawi yup
10:31 azawawi some companies have restrictions on what you can install on corporate machines
10:31 azawawi licensing that is...
10:35 azawawi javascript + html wins because all layout problems are fixed
10:35 azawawi yes there is a lot of workaround to support XYZ browsers but that's improving over time
10:35 azawawi s/workaround/workaround code/
10:36 bowtie do companies make there donations for using open source code,
10:37 azawawi if they think it is viable... or their business depends on it
10:37 bowtie bean counters
10:39 bowtie afk
10:50 bowtie back
10:51 bowtie azawawi, so what are we going to see in pedro 0.07
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11:24 azawawi i was away also lol
11:24 azawawi wb
11:25 bowtie snap
11:25 azawawi btw what's the origin of 'snap'? :)
11:26 bowtie tome described it here
11:26 bowtie http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​padre/2011-08-11#i_4264428
11:49 mj41 hi, can anybody apply  fix1316-on_selection.patch to fix http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1316 ... https://github.com/mj41/Padre/​compare/fix-on_open_selection ? thanks
11:51 azawawi mj41: hi
11:52 bowtie mj41, hi
11:52 mj41 azawawi: hi ... of course only if it does make sense to you :-)
11:52 azawawi let me try it
11:55 azawawi seems logical
11:56 azawawi bowtie: see what i mean about ~~ in Padre? :)
11:56 bowtie mj41, I am stupid, what dose it do?
11:56 azawawi Click on 'File::Which::which' do not open File::Which module.
11:56 azawawi :)
11:57 bowtie as in open in another editor window
11:57 azawawi type use File::Which and Ctrl Click
11:57 azawawi it should open File::Which (Which.pm that is)
11:58 mj41 maybe in future it can also goto 'sub which'
11:58 mj41 :-)
11:58 bowtie I just did that, it open file::which then padre died
12:01 mj41 bowtie: report a bug :-) ... but it works for me, with and also without patch
12:02 azawawi works for me under win32
12:02 azawawi bowtie: disable all plugins to verify why is padre dying
12:04 bowtie azawawi, ok will do
12:05 mj41 fedora here ... on my shovel :-)
12:08 bowtie azawawi, ok. I disabled all plugins, but when I do 'Ctrl + click' Padre dies
12:08 bowtie no message
12:10 azawawi enable log?
12:10 azawawi my guess is a permissions issue...
12:11 bowtie I am using revision 19356
12:11 azawawi im using padre 0.96 :)
12:12 mj41 azawawi:  http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1185 was reopened 1year ago? Can't reproduce and no idea how this can happened. Can you try on windows, e.g. ctrl click on Moexists::Module::abdce?
12:12 bowtie azawawi, it opens Which.pm, then Padre dies
12:17 bowtie #1185 is in trunk at line 1801
12:19 mj41 afk, my wife is waiting near doors ... hope I will be back in a few hours :-)
12:20 bowtie azawawi, 'Hit unfixed bug in directory browser, disabling it' this has a ticket adamk was looking at
12:22 bowtie azawawi, this is what the issue is -> http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/1374
12:23 bowtie hence crtl+click opens file, then the above #1374 is the bug
12:35 bowtie this is a little hack for my local perl -> ~/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-​5.16.1/lib/site_perl/5.16.1$ touch padre.yml
12:37 bowtie azawawi, but this is all todo with Padre and it's project dir viewer, not finding padre.yml of makefile.PL, it expects a module skeleton of the padre.yml fudge
12:47 azawawi i see
13:02 azawawi bowtie: im focusing all my powers atm to fix pedro :)
13:03 bowtie azawawi, I never would have guessed :)
13:04 bowtie do you want me to push mj41 #1316 patch
13:09 azawawi yup plz
13:10 bowtie done
13:10 azawawi http://code.google.com/p/mojoli​cious-plugin-pedro/source/list
13:15 bowtie ok just svn r93
13:15 botbot Changeset #93 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/93
13:16 bowtie installing deps
13:24 bowtie azawawi, where is menu in r93, it looks a bit bland compaired with 0.06 pedro
13:24 botbot Changeset #93 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/93
13:29 azawawi big inc... :)
13:29 bowtie yes, r93 is very big :)
13:29 botbot Changeset #93 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/93
13:31 azawawi done...
13:31 bowtie getting 0.94
13:34 bowtie azawawi, where is Perldoc the classic perl look
13:34 bowtie looks sweet
13:34 azawawi tidy works... :)
13:35 azawawi run in browser works...
13:39 bowtie azawawi, you need a better sample code, so that when you run tidy something happens
13:42 azawawi provide one? :)
13:43 bowtie I am looking
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13:51 shadowpaste "bowtie" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "#!/usr/bin/env perl use 5.010;" (37 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/206948
13:52 bowtie azawawi, try that :)
13:54 azawawi perlito has trouble with $| lol
13:54 shadowpaste "bowtie" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "[Sun Sep 2 14:54:28 2012] [deb" (5 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/206949
13:55 bowtie ok, comment it out then, above is fron mojo when tidy
13:59 azawawi done bowtie++
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14:03 azawawi revision 100 :)
14:03 bowtie azawawi, that was one of my early test files for debugging, inspired by the lama
14:03 azawawi http://code.google.com/p/mojoli​cious-plugin-pedro/source/list
14:04 bowtie pedro happy birthday you are now centenarian
14:06 azawawi Preparing for 0.07 Pedro centenarian commit :)
14:06 bowtie azawawi, tidy dose not tidy the code, you are aware of this
14:08 azawawi it does here...
14:09 azawawi any errors?
14:09 azawawi browser version? :)
14:09 bowtie yes in nopaste above
14:10 bowtie Version 21.0.1180.81
14:10 azawawi Chrome right?
14:11 azawawi CTRL-F5 ftw :)
14:11 azawawi sometimes something gets stale
14:11 bowtie yes that was chrome version
14:12 shadowpaste "bowtie" at 217.168.150.38 pasted "[Sun Sep 2 15:12:14 2012] [deb" (6 lines) at http://paste.scsys.co.uk/206950
14:13 bowtie azawawi, are you using your ms games box, or your ubuntu dev mc
14:17 azawawi let me check it on ubuntu
14:17 bowtie cool
14:26 azawawi done try it plz
14:28 bowtie azawawi, works in chrome and firefox
14:30 bowtie azawawi, are you using the mojo, perltidyrc
14:32 bowtie azawawi, while you have ubuntu up and running, do you want to try use File::Which from earlier
14:33 azawawi cpanm http://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/A/AZ/AZ​AWAWI/Mojolicious-Plugin-Pedro-0.07.tar.gz
14:33 azawawi bowtie: i dont have padre installed yet on that instance
14:34 bowtie tut tut
15:09 bowtie botbot: tell azawawi google-chrome-stable_21.0.1180.89-r154005_i386.deb
15:09 botbot bowtie, I'll tell that azawawi when we see each other.
15:09 botbot Changeset #154005 http://padre.perlide.org/trac/changeset/154005
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16:54 botbot Welcome user_1023
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20:50 mj41 this works for me ... https://github.com/mj41/Padre/commit/00​4b65da4a2b68128eb4c0946ffbae76eb59f073 (see other related commits https://github.com/mj41/Padr​e/compare/mj-conf-clipboard )
20:51 bowtie mj41, hi
20:52 mj41 I really hate that I can't replace selected text by text previously pushed to clipboard by ctrl+c (or ctrl+c in another app/window).
20:52 mj41 and this works for me :-)
20:54 bowtie mj41, this is where, the highlighted masks the clip board, yes
20:58 bowtie mj41, if you add above to a ticket, I will add to trunk, and link Chang log to ticket, ok
20:59 bowtie s/Chang/Change/
20:59 mj41 bowtie: so it is generally useful to fix this?  ... I don't know what should be the right behaviour. ... also I need to test find/replace/... dialogs
21:02 mj41 hmm ... ctrl+v doesn't work inside Find fast box
21:03 bowtie mj41, just as you do this, I have re-added perl module generation, we all do the things that interest us, so if your patch works I will add it for you, as long as there is a ticket to reference
21:04 bowtie mj41, don't for get to create dialogues  with form builder
21:05 bowtie or are you using the existing
21:06 mj41 bowtie: ok, great ... I will ask azawawi to test patch on Windows box
21:06 bowtie mj41, dose patch work for you?
21:08 mj41 bowtie: existing ones ... I need to test them ... also I'm not sure about patch ... so will create ticket and look closely at it tomorrow
21:08 bowtie mj41, hold on a moo
21:10 bowtie mj41, did you get that?
21:11 mj41 bowtie: yes, thanks
21:12 bowtie mj41, if you need a second, that's ok my me :)
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21:26 mj41 bowtie: I will experiment with clipboard tomorrow ... there is also http://padre.perlide.org/trac/ticket/390 :-). Thx and good night.
21:26 bowtie mj41, night
21:27 bowtie mj41, are you going to tag on to it
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21:31 mj41 bowtie: not sure, each $editor has own $self->{Clipboard_Old} ... so it is a bit related
21:40 bowtie mj41, ask azawawi about that
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