Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-02-08

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 cognominal_ yea # jonathan++ anyway
00:01 jonathan Maybe Coke can make that happen.
00:01 * jonathan updates his forthcoming talks section on his site.
00:02 Coke jonathan: I can make that happen. plz. send me a reminder email.
00:03 jonathan You can haz reminder email.
00:03 cognominal_ I am reading jquery in action and see how much javascript is a rough semantical subset iof Perl6
00:04 cognominal_ except the jquery implementers do the multi dispatch manually
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00:30 * Coke guesses the reminder email was silly, since he just did it.
00:30 Coke ok. jonathan's new feed is now in planet parrot; no clue how long it will take to refresh and show his entries.
00:31 jonathan w00t
00:31 jonathan Coke++
00:32 Tene Coke++
00:35 Andy joined #parrot
00:36 jonathan sleep &
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00:43 svnbotlt r25591 | chromatic++ | trunk:
00:43 svnbotlt : [pmc2c] Prettify generated PMCs slightly.  Debugging these guys is less than
00:43 svnbotlt : fun.
00:43 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25591
00:52 Andy evening
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01:21 svnbotlt r25592 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:21 svnbotlt : [src] Fixed a minor typo.
01:21 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25592
01:21 chromatic Is anyone having trouble building NQP?
01:22 * particle tries
01:22 particle like, gc trouble?
01:22 chromatic No.
01:22 chromatic My fault.
01:22 chromatic For fun, ask yourself "Self, why are there three different versions of registering a type in three different places?"
01:26 Andy hey, c, anything we can pair on tonite?
01:27 particle take schwern's 2038 code to parrot.
01:27 chromatic Want to know some really grotty code that is a speed hit?
01:28 chromatic sets.c in compilers/imcc/ is a huge timesink for Perl 6 and PGE.
01:28 chromatic I'm not sure that's entirely the problem (but it's not great code).
01:28 chromatic I think the real problem is that compute_dominators() is lousy.
01:29 chromatic Cleaning that up (even making it so that it's remotely readable) would be an improvement.
01:29 chromatic An easier task (if Amy makes you watch the O! channel tonight) is slapping Parrot_oo_ on all non-static functions in src/oo.c.
01:31 chromatic A supposedly fun thing that I'll never do again (thank you, David Foster Wallace) is to figure out what's barfy about t/library/pg.t (probably our PostgreSQL NCI bindings are out of date) and make it not barfy.
01:32 chromatic Finally, someone needs to poke Coke and ask him if the Tcl patch I sent him a few days ago helps.
01:33 Andy Who holds on to the commit bits?  Could ajr get one, rather than feeding thru me?
01:33 Andy chromatic: Actually, Amy is at school show, being a Teacher Presecnce or something.
01:34 chromatic woohoo, it's the Hallmark channel for you tonight then!
01:34 Andy Right now watching Dirty Jobs w/Quinn
01:34 Andy later, I'll watch some Modern Marvels as background
01:34 chromatic That Dirty Jobs show is a horrible invention.
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01:36 Andy Why do you say?
01:36 chromatic Regarding ajr, the committers just have to look over the number and quality of patches he's submitted, then hold him down, make him sign the contributor agreement, put a sack over his head, and re-enact The Crossing of the Desert and The Unblinking Eye and he's in.
01:36 wknight8111 compilers/imcc/sets.c doesnt look too messy to me, and I don't see the function "compute_dominators()" in there
01:37 chromatic I went out to dinner with a very lovely young lady a while back, and she mentioned the show, and then we had a long discussion of animal husbandry.
01:37 Andy Quinn & I discuss much science watching it.
01:37 chromatic it's in reg_alloc.c, wknight8111.
01:37 wknight8111 okay, thanks
01:37 Andy It's in compilers/imcc/cfg.c
01:37 chromatic Er, yes.  Sorry.
01:38 svnbotlt r25593 | petdance++ | trunk:
01:38 svnbotlt : ajr documentation, plus some consting
01:38 svnbotlt r25594 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:38 svnbotlt : [oo] We can get by with only one version of this function (though its cousin in
01:38 svnbotlt : src/pmc.c looks awfully familiar).  register_type() is now
01:38 chromatic What bothers me about sets.c is that a struct is unnecessary (it's just a bitmap), and that working eight bits at a time seems a little silly to me.  If we can rely on a 32-bit type, for example (and we can know this at compile time), we can chunk along four times faster.
01:38 Andy I don't even know what it's doing,
01:39 Andy but that doesn't stop me from refactoring.
01:39 chromatic Which, sets or dominators?
01:39 Andy Yup.
01:40 chromatic This is where I pull out my computer science education and tell you that Mozart was in his early 30s when he died without completing his Requiem, Handel was the red-haired priest, and Wagner hated Mendelssohn.
01:41 particle .\src\pmc\task.pmc(163) : warning C4133: '=' : incompatible types - from 'PMC *' to 'Parrot_Interp'
01:41 particle eew!
01:41 chromatic Heh.  That's MY warning.
01:42 chromatic One spot in Parrot where we actually need a void *.
01:42 particle it's YOUR code, too.
01:43 chromatic In my defense, Haydn wrote 110 symphonies.
01:43 particle i've heard more than one of them. it's better than this.
01:44 TimToady chromatic's music is better than it sounds
01:44 particle a conversion macro would be nice. but, whatever. one warning of many.
01:45 chromatic That warning's going to be tough to get rid of.
01:45 particle double cast?
01:45 Andy chromatic: Are you a vimmer?
01:45 Andy Like God intended you?
01:46 chromatic Mostly the problem is that there's no good way to pass a raw pointer to a vtable entry.
01:46 chromatic Yep Yep
01:46 particle hrmm.
01:47 particle we need a VOID macro :)
01:47 chromatic VOIDIMEANITNOKIDDING
01:47 Andy chromatic: Do you have the Align package?
01:48 wknight8111 where is __attribute__nonnull__ defined?
01:48 particle in config/ somewhere?
01:48 chromatic I haven't installed it yet.  It's tempting.
01:48 Andy wknight8111: Do this: "make tags" and then "vim -t __attribute__nonnull__"
01:48 chromatic config.h, I think.
01:49 Andy chromatic: It's butt simple, and it makes it super simple to line up blocks
01:49 Andy :Align * =
01:49 Andy lines up your *s and =s vavoom just like that.
01:49 Andy It's life-changing
01:49 wknight8111 no vim. I'm just trying to get my bearings here. This is a big code base to just jump into
01:49 particle include/parrot/compiler.h
01:49 Andy wknight8111: do you have ack?
01:49 Andy You have to use ack to work on Parrot.  It's a law.
01:49 wknight8111 i don't have crap, i'm on windows
01:50 Andy ack runs on windows.
01:50 Andy http://petdance.com/ack/
01:50 particle get ack, but force install
01:50 Andy or just pull down the standalone version
01:50 Andy I would have better Win32 support if my win32 guy wasn't such a slacker.
01:50 particle whatever.
01:51 Andy Oh, sorry, did I say?
01:51 chromatic You said the loud part quiet and the quiet part loud.
01:51 Andy COME LET'S WRESTLE
01:51 chromatic Good news; RT #50554 isn't a Rakudo problem or a GC problem.
01:51 Andy actually, particle, if you'll be around in a bit I wanna do the new IPC::OPen3 stuff if you'll try it out please.
01:52 particle i may be around, or i may be playing soccer
01:53 Andy brb
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02:03 svnbotlt r25595 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:03 svnbotlt : [PMC] No need to store a new element in a ResizablePMCArray by index when you
02:03 svnbotlt : can just push it on.
02:03 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25595
02:07 Andy ack really needs a way to exclude files
02:07 Andy so I can do
02:07 Andy ack -w malloc src/ --except=malloc.c
02:08 svnbotlt r25596 | petdance++ | trunk:
02:08 svnbotlt : use some malloc macros
02:08 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25596
02:12 wknight8111 this compute_dominators really is a mess
02:14 svnbotlt r25597 | petdance++ | trunk:
02:14 svnbotlt : use mem_sys_buffer
02:14 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25597
02:14 chromatic mmm butter
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02:33 svnbotlt r25598 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:33 svnbotlt : [PMC] Clone Class's ro_variant_vtable when creating a new class from PIR.
02:33 svnbotlt : Sharing pointers is good, until you double free them during global destruction
02:33 svnbotlt : of vtables.
02:33 svnbotlt : Fixes RT #50554, reported by Zev Benjamin.
02:33 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25598
02:33 chromatic Told you it wasn't GC.
02:35 chromatic Wow, we had 999 commits last month.
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02:41 Coke chromatic: (tcl patch)... I thought I commented on that.
02:41 chromatic I don't remember.
02:41 chromatic It only did some renames on PMC declarations.
02:42 chromatic Oh, and if you want bugs to close, 50554.
02:56 Coke chromatic_NOT_HERE: y... nevermind, then.
02:59 * Coke wonders why c can't close tickets, or if he just doesn't like to.
02:59 particle the latter.
03:01 Coke as long as he gives me a list. PITA to find them still open weeks later.
03:02 Coke closed that one, opened a new one with his final comment.
03:03 Coke ->
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05:13 peepsalot what's GC ?
05:13 purl somebody said GC was the boehm conservative garbage collector at http://reality.sgi.com/boehm/cg.html or a really really bad perl "programmer" or GrandCentral.com
05:14 Tene Garbace Collection
05:14 peepsalot ok
05:14 Tene purl: dance for me
05:14 purl Tene: huh?
05:27 peepsalot is it possible to compile pbc into a native executable?
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05:55 svnbotlt r25599 | petdance++ | trunk:
05:55 svnbotlt : reheaderized
05:55 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25599
05:59 svnbotlt r25600 | petdance++ | trunk:
05:59 svnbotlt : realloc() is a handy tool.  We have many places where we check for
05:59 svnbotlt : NULLness of a pointer to see if we should realloc() or malloc() it.
05:59 svnbotlt : Lots of cut & paste, lots of chances for cut & paste errors.  Now,
05:59 svnbotlt : mem_sys_realloc(p,n) can handle p of NULL or not.
05:59 svnbotlt : I've started overhauling the places we have to decide whether to malloc
05:59 svnbotlt : or realloc, and this is the first of that.
05:59 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25600
06:00 Andy The longest commit message I've written yet.
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06:19 spinclad Unblinking Eye -- that's what they did to Mr Clockwork Oranger, no?
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06:32 svnbotlt r25601 | petdance++ | trunk:
06:32 svnbotlt : retrofitting to use mem_realloc_n_typed for safety
06:32 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25601
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07:13 chromatic peepsalot, it's not easy to compile PBC into a native executable.
07:13 chromatic For a true native executable, you have to be able to JIT all of the ops you use and can't do anything too dynamic from within Parrot, unless you link against libparrot too.
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07:30 Tene peepsalot: yes.  look at pbc_to_c, iirc
07:39 chromatic pbc_to_exe is a hack that encodes a PBC in the constant segment of an executable which links against libparrot.
07:40 chromatic It's basically src/main.c without argv handling.
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09:59 svnbotlt r25602 | kjs++ | trunk:
09:59 svnbotlt : [src]
09:59 svnbotlt : + fix layout in 1 spot by removing a space
09:59 svnbotlt : + add rt ticket no's for todos
09:59 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25602
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10:12 svnbotlt r25603 | kjs++ | trunk:
10:12 svnbotlt : [src] beautify layout by aligning "=" characters.
10:12 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25603
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10:49 svnbotlt r25604 | kjs++ | trunk:
10:49 svnbotlt : [punie]
10:49 svnbotlt : + standardize on file names:
10:49 svnbotlt : - rename punie.pg to grammar.pg
10:49 svnbotlt : - rename punie-actions.pm to actions.pm
10:49 svnbotlt : + update root.in accordingly
10:49 svnbotlt : + update MANIFEST
10:49 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25604
10:57 svnbotlt r25605 | kjs++ | trunk:
10:57 svnbotlt : [punie]
10:57 svnbotlt : + standardize on language directory organization
10:57 svnbotlt : - add parser and builtins directory
10:57 svnbotlt : - update root.in accordingly
10:57 svnbotlt : - update punie.pir to adjust path to builtins
10:57 svnbotlt : - update MANIFEST
10:57 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25605
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11:46 svnbotlt r25606 | kjs++ | trunk:
11:46 svnbotlt : [PIR] clean up grammar.
11:46 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25606
11:54 svnbotlt r25607 | kjs++ | trunk:
11:54 svnbotlt : [pir] fix copyright notice in file headers.
11:54 svnbotlt diff: http://perlsix.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25607
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14:50 moritz what's the plan for HLLs that can't be transformed to existing PAST nodes while parsing?
14:50 moritz build an intermediate tree?
14:50 moritz or write more PAST nodes?
14:50 moritz or both?
14:50 purl both is Country *and* Western or Shipping *and* receiving or trolls *and* crap floods
14:58 pmichaud moritz: PAST is extensible -- a HLL can create additional PAST nodes
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17:12 particle i think andy broke my parrot :(
17:12 particle realcleaning....
17:12 Andy Oh, come on, how could that happen?
17:12 particle backend.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _mem__sys_realloc referenced in function _alloc_read
17:12 particle waitlist.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _mem__sys_realloc_zeroed referenced in function _alloc_entry
17:12 Andy did I miss some? HUh
17:13 moritz I'M IN UR PARROT EATING UR X-TERNAL SYMBOLS
17:13 particle damn kittens!
17:20 particle realclean fixed.
17:20 particle andy++
17:21 Andy oh, ok, so it IS ok
17:21 Andy Don't scare me.
17:21 Andy I'm very fragile.
17:21 particle yep, just needed to realclean. who knew?
17:43 Andy I think the realloc stuff wil lsimplfiy a lot of code
17:46 Andy That you had to do a realclena means we have a dependecyt missing.
17:46 Andy that backend and waitlist do not properly depend on memory.h
17:46 Andy the change in memory.h shouldhave Just Worked via make
17:47 particle could be, rabbit. could be.
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21:09 peeps[work] which doc would best explain how the languages grammar.pg grammar-actions.pl, and builtins.pir work together?
21:10 Tene Well,the *best* doc is reading grammar.pb, grammar-actions.pl and builtins.pir  ;)
21:11 peeps[work] yeah but i don't completely understand the syntax and how they are used together to make complete compiler
21:12 particle they syntax of the .pg files is described in perl 6's S05
21:12 particle s05?
21:12 purl see http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html or dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S05.html
21:12 peeps[work] ok
21:12 particle however, some of that spec is unimplemented in parrot
21:13 Tene peeps[work]: Where was your first inclination to look for that documentation?
21:14 particle languages/abc/ is well documented
21:14 particle src/grammar.pg and src/grammar-actions.pl
21:15 peeps[work] Tene, on the parrotcode.org website, or /docs/compiler_faq.pod ?
21:16 peeps[work] or one of the other dozens of pods in /doc it's easy to get lost in there for a newbie
21:17 particle peeps[work]: if you could write up a list of questions, it would be helpful for our doc re-engineering effort
21:17 particle it's good to have a newbie's perspective for that task
21:19 peeps[work] ok, i might try that some time this weekend
21:19 particle thanks!
21:20 Tene peeps[work]: i was more wondering where you looked so I would know where to put it if I wrote such a doc, so it would be easy to find.
21:23 particle we need a table of contents
21:23 peeps[work] Tene, i prefer reading the docs on the website when they are available, easier on my eyes than perldoc in a terminal.  but I think the website docs do not include everything in /docs
21:23 particle we need to get combust installed in a non-prod environment so we can muck with it to autogen the docs on the website
21:24 peeps[work] particle, yes, i was just about to say that.  this is like a TOC http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/ but I think it could use some work
21:24 Ron joined #parrot
21:24 particle agreed.
21:25 peeps[work] not sure if it already exists, but a doc that just gives an overview of the dir structure of the project might be nice, explaining the purpose of the main dirs
21:25 particle we have that for t/
21:26 particle i'm not sure about the rest of the repo
21:26 Tene There was the pct doc someone was working on...
21:26 particle yes, there are docs under docs/pct/
21:27 particle i don' think they're on the website yet
21:27 Tene Hmm, looks like PGE doesn't deal well with utf-8.
21:27 peeps[work] i think my main issue with the documentation from a complete newbie perspective is that it is not linear.  there is no easily apparent order to read things so that you have all the prerequisites to understand the next doc.
21:27 particle peeps[work]:  you can run 'make html' to generate html from all the parrot docs in your local repo
21:28 peeps[work] particle, thanks, i'll try that
21:28 particle and if that make target is screwy... patches welcome (likely to config/gen/makefiles/...)
21:28 * Tene tried passing to rakudo: sub ô { say "ô" }
21:29 particle tene: do you have icu configured?
21:30 particle i think if you config parrot with icu, it'll work fine.
21:30 Tene particle: No clue.  I'll look into that.  Thanks.
21:30 particle also see languages/APL/
21:31 Tene Determining whether ICU is installed...................................yes.
21:32 particle hrmm
21:36 peeps[work] in languages/abc/abc.pir  there are these lines:    .include 'src/gen_grammar.pir' and  .include 'src/gen_grammar-actions.pir'    i guess these are automatically generated?  when and how?
21:37 Tene Those lines aren't autogenerated.
21:37 Tene those two included files are, though.
21:37 peeps[work] right
21:37 peeps[work] cause I noticed the files don't exist in my dir
21:38 Tene but they will after you run make.
21:39 Tene particle: did a full rebuild, Makefile.PL claims I have ICU support, is there a way I could check to confirm that icu was used?
21:40 Tene Hmm.  languages/APL works fine
21:41 peeps[work] the regular smoke tests do not test the individual languages?
21:42 moritz no, you need 'make languages-smoke' for that
21:43 peeps[work] ok
21:51 particle peeps[work]: look in the makefile in languages/abc
21:55 particle weekend &
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22:33 Tene What's appropriate PAST for a null value?
22:38 jonathan Tene: An actual Null?
22:39 jonathan Use PAST::Value but with :returns('Null')
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22:39 jonathan Maybe. ;-)
22:39 Tene jonathan: I need something that will be recognized as an end-of-statement marker.
22:40 jonathan Tene: <confused look> Isn't that a parsing issue?
22:40 Tene lolcode has to handle parsing at runtime.
22:40 jonathan Can you give me an example of what you're after?
22:40 Tene it needs an end-of-statement marker for variable-arity ops.
22:41 Tene the expression parsing routine is called with a flat list of tokens.
22:42 Tene It can't be a normal value, because that would mean that that value couldn't be used, so it needs to be something unusual.  Null is pretty traditional for that.
22:42 jonathan Why can't you do elems = elements the_list, so as to know how many elements the list has?
22:42 jonathan Or may it contain many statements?
22:42 Tene it may contain many statements.
22:43 Tene foo bar "baz" "bleh" "frob"
22:43 Tene is that foo( bar( "baz, "bleh"), "frob"), or foo(bar('baz'), 'bleh', 'frob'), etc.
22:44 Tene lolcode has no grouping punctuation, and relies on the arity of the functions to dispatch properly.
22:44 Tene for varargs functions, you terminate with MKAY
22:44 jonathan If you're passing tokens, then are you doing this in the parser?
22:45 Tene The parses generates a call to expr_parse, with every token in the expression as an argument.
22:45 Tene Because you don't know the arity of functions, especially user-defined functions, until runtime.
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22:48 Tene So I need my parser to translate MKAY as an unusual value.
22:48 jonathan What do you actually pass expr_parse? Is this list of tokens a list of match objects?
22:49 Tene PAST::Val and PAST::Var, essentially.
22:50 jonathan Ah, so you're calling it from the action, and passing it a list of PAST nodes?
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22:51 jonathan I guess there's always an empty PAST::Stmnts
22:51 Tene method expression in actions.pm emits a PAST::Op.new( :name('expr_parse'), :pasttype('call'))
22:51 jonathan Stms, I mean.
22:51 jonathan Ah, OK.
22:51 * jonathan is starting to understand
22:51 Tene After a for $<tokens> { $past.push( $( $_ ) ); } # simplification
22:52 jonathan Right.
22:52 jonathan *maybe* a PAST::Val with a return type of null and no :value will work.
22:53 Tene (does $($_) for values, I have to push on PAST::Op.new( :inline('%r = find_name "$_"') ) for variables and functions, because you can't tell which is which at compile time.
22:53 Tene I'll try it at the airport.
22:53 * Tene about to leave.
22:53 jonathan Alternatively, make MKAY be a :inline('%r = null')
22:53 Tene Ahh.
22:53 jonathan Then you've got something you can test with ifnull
22:54 jonathan As a PAST::Op
22:54 Tene If there's nothing clearly better semantically, "easy to test in pir" is good.
22:55 jonathan ;-)
22:56 jonathan It's maybe a solution. I make no promises about it being the test one. :-)
22:57 jonathan *best
22:57 * Tene airports.
22:57 purl airports is the most likely method.
23:14 Andy Y'know, I'm far more worried about the uninitialized memory we use than the memory leaks, chromatic.
23:14 Andy (if he's monitoring this0
23:23 jonathan Andy: Are you the rakudo.org ugy?
23:23 jonathan *guy
23:23 Andy I am.
23:24 Andy Need an account to post there?  So you can post your comments & notes there?
23:24 jonathan I wrote up my latest hacking...
23:24 jonathan http://use.perl.org/~Jonath​anWorthington/journal/35610
23:24 jonathan Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. I could bug you to post stuff.
23:24 Andy yeah I saw
23:24 Andy Or I could make you an account.
23:24 Andy Not right this second, I'm on my way out.
23:25 jonathan Sure.
23:25 jonathan No hurry. Just figure it's more scalable if you give people who're scribbling stuff accounts. :-)
23:25 Andy but yes, I would love it if you would do stuff there.
23:26 jonathan OK. Make me an account and I shall post.
23:28 Andy Thanks.  I love seeing the stuff you're putting together.
23:28 Andy It looks like real code.
23:28 Andy I don't know why objects & methods look more real than everything else, but I do. :-)
23:29 jonathan Glad you like it. :-)
23:30 jonathan I've got quite a lot of Rakudo time this month.
23:30 Andy ok, off I go
23:30 Andy bug me later
23:30 jonathan Have fun. :-)
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