Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-02-20

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 wknight8111 although one day I would like to be
00:02 chromatic Do you want to be an expert on installing enterprisey SDKs?
00:03 wknight8111 well, i need to be an expert at something eventually. Otherwise, i'll never find a job :(
00:04 wknight8111 ...not that being an occasional parrot bug contributor pays very well
00:05 chromatic Not that being a core committer pays either.
00:06 wknight8111 yeah, but you can put that on a resume "Parrot Core Committer Bomb Diggity". Employers would love that
00:08 chromatic Maybe.  My current employer cares more that I occasionally show up at the office.
00:08 particle not mine.
00:08 chromatic Yeah, your employer doesn't care about me at all.  Jerks.
00:08 particle they'd be upset if i showed up.
00:09 skids joined #parrot
00:09 chromatic I wear pants when I show up.
00:09 particle 'pants.' that word makes me giggle.
00:10 particle t/dynoplibs/myops.t test 7 fails for me.
00:10 particle ah, it's that /alarm\nalarm\nalarm/ test
00:11 chromatic Scheduler granularity?
00:11 chromatic Win32?
00:11 purl Win32 is the God forsaken platform.  It is not fickle about slashes; its system calls do not care. or ....DEEP HURTING. or a dying legacy system collapsing under its own weight. or see also:win32 for perl
00:11 particle win32
00:11 particle btw perl -v and prove -v are *not* the same thing
00:12 particle not ok 7 - repeating alarm
00:12 particle # Exited with error code: 255
00:12 particle # Received:
00:12 particle # alarm
00:12 particle # alarm
00:12 particle #
00:15 rdice joined #parrot
00:20 wknight8111 well, I think I just satisfied 1 ticket: 46679
00:20 wknight8111 so now we're at 107. Progress!
00:24 * Tene harasses particle for paperwork.
00:24 particle tene google tpf for cla
00:28 particle tene: http://www.perlfoundation.org/legal
00:28 particle cla is text or pdf
00:29 particle harass chromatic for his cat's fax number, or drop $.41 to him
00:35 * Tene peers out over the balcony to check if chromatic is below.
00:36 Tene I should be able to find a fax machine this weekend.
00:38 Tene Although, hmm... Maybe the hotel has something appropriate.
00:42 Steve_p purl, it's?
00:42 purl i heard it's was a homonym of "its", no really, its!
00:42 Steve_p purl, its?
00:42 purl bugger all, i dunno, steve_p
00:52 particle ooh, i should try to get rule/token/regex working right
00:53 Tene particle: excellent idea!
00:58 svnbotl r25879 | particle++ | trunk:
00:58 svnbotl : [src] fix pod copy/paste error
00:58 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25879
01:10 svnbotl r25880 | particle++ | trunk:
01:10 svnbotl : [RELEASE] update news to r25878
01:10 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25880
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02:18 svnbotl r25881 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:18 svnbotl : [t] Mark several tests as TODO until someone resolves RT #49718.  This only
02:18 svnbotl : applies to the JIT core, which doesn't yet handle pending events.
02:18 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25881
02:30 chromatic particle, ping
02:37 Coke particle: there was no macport NEWS. When there is, I'll add it.
02:37 chromatic Coke, are you a metacomitter?
02:37 Coke particle: I can check on the APL, but have no clue going in.
02:37 Coke (having not PCT-ized anything myself. =-)
02:41 Tene chromatic: RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES lists Coke as a metacommitter.
02:43 chromatic aha, Coke are you around?
02:44 svnbotl r25882 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:44 svnbotl : [t] Only TODO the JIT/event tests if the JIT core is active for the test.
02:44 svnbotl : Also avoid an uninitialized value warning when plain Parrot runs.
02:44 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25882
02:46 Coke chromatic: a metacommitter for parrot? yes.
02:46 Coke chromatic: pong.
02:47 chromatic Coke, Tene just faxed in his CLA, so he's all set for a commit bit and the lecture.
02:48 Coke Tene: If you break anything, we will be MOST DISPLEASED.
02:48 Coke and BE HOME BY MIDNIGHT!
02:48 Coke chromatic: that good?
02:48 Tene Coke: which time zone?
02:48 purl which time zone is, like, UTC
02:48 Coke *thwap*
02:48 chromatic Works for me.
02:49 Coke I am only half around. I will engage your commit bit before I sleep, ok?
02:49 Tene Hmm.  Any parrot hackers near Phoenix?
02:49 Coke ...but you have to promise to go through RT and work on all the lolcode tickets that are still open.
02:49 Tene Coke: Okay.
02:49 Coke particle: APL cleanup completed.
02:50 coke_tene_commit_bi ... that's unfortuate.
02:50 Tene Eh, not too bad.
02:57 svnbotl r25883 | coke++ | trunk:
02:57 svnbotl : [APL]
02:57 svnbotl : Delete files which are no longer needed after the conversion to PCT.
02:57 svnbotl r25884 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:57 svnbotl : [codingstd] Removed hard tabs (or revised file to avoid tripping the P::C
02:57 svnbotl : no-hard-tabs policy).
02:57 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25884
03:03 svnbotl r25885 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:03 svnbotl : [codingstd] Removed trailing spaces.
03:03 svnbotl r25886 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:03 svnbotl : [codingstd] Added Perl code coda.
03:03 svnbotl r25887 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:03 svnbotl : [codingstd] Replaced bareword filehandle with lexical.
03:03 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25887
03:10 svnbotl r25888 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:10 svnbotl : [codingstd] Added strict to Makefile.PL.  Excluded NQP blue_rect.pl example
03:10 svnbotl : from Perl file checks.
03:10 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25888
03:10 chromatic That's the last of the Perl::Critic tests, until I install Perl::Critic::Bangs.
03:16 svnbotl r25889 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:17 svnbotl : [codingstd] Added warnings pragma.
03:17 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25889
03:23 svnbotl r25890 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:23 svnbotl : [t] Report only those lines that fail this check, not all lines that need
03:23 svnbotl : checking.
03:23 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25890
03:25 coke_tene_commit_bi tene: do you have a bitcard.org account?
03:28 Coke tene: Peeeeeeeeeng.
03:28 Tene Coke: yes
03:28 svnbotl r25891 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:28 svnbotl : [src] Cast all char pointers passed to isXXX() stdlib functions to unsigned
03:28 svnbotl : char.
03:28 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25891
03:28 Coke read docs/project/meta* - you need a bitcard account and to login a few places before I can enable commit bits.
03:29 Coke I can wait if you can do this right now; Otherwise I can hit it before I go to work in the morning.
03:29 Tene I can do it right now.
03:29 * Tene reads.
03:29 * Coke tap tap taps.
03:31 Tene Done
03:32 Coke what's your ID?
03:32 Tene tene
03:32 Tene tene@allalone.org
03:35 Coke Welcome aboard!
03:35 particle joined #parrot
03:36 Tene Thanks.
03:36 Coke Tene: basically: before you commit: update & test.
03:37 Coke 'make test' is usually sufficient.
03:38 chromatic Also recommended: at least browsing the commit messages mailing list once in a while.
03:40 Coke ... Should be mandatory that you have to be sub'd to the list to be a committer.
03:41 Coke but yes. I try to skim them all; I even try to comment on the ones I understand and disagree with.
03:41 Coke chromatic++
03:41 Coke tene++
03:42 Coke (stupid slow home wireless network)--
03:44 Coke chromatic: I re-enabled the codingstd test you just fixed.
03:44 Coke -> zzz
03:45 chromatic Most of the other codingstd tests looked too scary to fix in one swell foop.
03:46 chromatic but make fulltest runs cleanly for me now through that point.
03:46 svnbotl r25892 | coke++ | trunk:
03:46 svnbotl : [codingstd]
03:46 svnbotl : chromatic++ made this test pass, so run it by default again.
03:46 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25892
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05:50 svnbotl r25893 | chromatic++ | trunk:
05:50 svnbotl : [config] Added hints for QNX (RT #49818, Matt Kraai).
05:50 svnbotl r25894 | chromatic++ | trunk:
05:50 svnbotl : [t] Don't bother running Subversion if there's no .svn directory; this can't be
05:50 svnbotl : a checkout in that case.
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07:22 petdance my make is failing.
07:22 petdance dig dig dig
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08:00 svnbotl r25895 | chromatic++ | trunk:
08:00 svnbotl : [Lua] Fixed a couple of memory leaks in LuaString PMC.
08:00 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25895
08:06 svnbotl r25896 | chromatic++ | trunk:
08:06 svnbotl : [lua] Fixed several memory leaks related to exceptions; removed unreachable
08:06 svnbotl : code after exceptions.
08:06 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25896
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08:26 svnbotl r25897 | chromatic++ | trunk:
08:26 svnbotl : [Lua] Ensured that every place that creates a new Lua PMC sets the appropriate
08:26 svnbotl : mark/destroy flags.  Some clone() calls didn't.
08:26 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25897
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11:01 svnbotl r25898 | kjs++ | trunk:
11:01 svnbotl : [pdd19]
11:01 svnbotl : o move the part about = and morphing, so it's before the macro section.
11:01 svnbotl : o fix a few pod issues (no errors, but forgotten markup)
11:01 svnbotl : o add a note about NCI and short-invocation syntax
11:01 svnbotl : o add a note about braced arguments; taken from docs/imcc/macros.pir
11:01 svnbotl : o add a note about compilers/pirc/new being able to handle heredoc arguments in macro expansions.
11:01 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25898
11:14 svnbotl r25899 | kjs++ | trunk:
11:14 svnbotl : [pdd19]
11:14 svnbotl : add a note about search order of the include directive.
11:14 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25899
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11:56 svnbotl r25900 | kjs++ | trunk:
11:56 svnbotl : [pirc|heredoc] align assignments and add a comment. No need to regenerate the C file; it's just a matter of layout.
11:56 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25900
12:09 svnbotl r25901 | kjs++ | trunk:
12:09 svnbotl : [pirc|macro] add a comment to clarify; it was confusing even to me; and I wrote the thing.
12:09 svnbotl : No need to regenerate the C; it's just a comment; nobody should inspect the generated C file.
12:09 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25901
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12:25 cognominal_ is there a way to say parrot do croak (die with a stack trace) instead of merely dying?
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13:42 svnbotl r25902 | petdance++ | trunk:
13:42 svnbotl : combined similar allocates into a single realloc
13:42 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25902
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14:22 pmichaud good morning, world
14:22 davidfetter OH HAI
14:29 particle hey pm
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14:42 Coke quick, everyone check in their 6KLOC diffs!
14:43 davidfetter "on a really productive day, i removed 1000 lines of code" --kernighan
14:44 Coke cognominal_: probably? I know that we probe for a library that facilitates such things (glib?) but I don't know the particulars.
14:45 Coke davidfetter: projet I'm on, I plan to remove 50% of the code, damnit. =-)
14:45 davidfetter Coke, great :)
14:48 lathos There's PDB_backtrace, which dumps the Parrot-level backtrace.
14:48 Coke lathos: you're back!
14:49 lathos I never went away!
14:49 lathos I just have a bit less time right now. But I am still working on a strings PDD.
14:49 pmichaud lathos++ # strings PDD
14:50 lathos And, who knows, I may be looking at an ARM port. (We can cross compile, right? *cough)
14:50 rdice joined #parrot
14:53 particle i believe we've built on arm
14:54 pmichaud kjs++  # many NEWS updates
14:54 particle ahem.
14:54 svnbotl r25903 | petergibbs++ | trunk:
14:54 svnbotl : Add the JIT core test on TODO for "repeating alarm" test that chromatic forgot.
14:54 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25903
14:54 pmichaud oh, did I miss something?
14:54 pmichaud (likely :-)
14:55 particle check the $Id$ in NEWS :P
14:55 pmichaud oh, I was looking at the commit messages to parrot-porters
14:55 pmichaud and the svn diffs
14:55 particle ah, you just haven't gotten to the end yet
14:55 pmichaud particle++ # because he deserves it
14:56 particle anyway, i'm working on a t/dynoplibs/myops.t failure, should have platforms updates soon
14:56 pmichaud okay, great.  I got a myops.t TODO pass just a moment ago
14:56 pmichaud I'll probably do the release a bit later today
14:57 particle ah, somebody todo'd my failing test
14:57 lathos particle: When I say ARM I mean iPhone really.
14:57 particle so, i'll fix it for you, too
14:59 Andy_ OK, who's sitting on Andy?
15:00 * davidfetter looks up the /ghost command
15:00 particle you are, you dingbat
15:00 Andy_ left #parrot
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15:04 particle crud, this is tricky.
15:04 particle t/dynoplibs/myops.t fails with msvc, and also under jit
15:05 particle let's see if i can fix msvc
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15:28 pmichaud particle: ping
15:29 particle pong
15:29 pmichaud for RT#50968  (capturing .*? in perl6doc), what are you using to test this?
15:30 particle i'll nopaste
15:30 pmichaud okay, great
15:31 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "pod6 test file" (35 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12361
15:32 pmichaud then just run perl6doc.pbc with --target=parse?
15:32 particle correct
15:33 pmichaud it works for me with  (.*?)
15:33 particle gah.
15:33 pmichaud did you try -G ?
15:33 particle no, i didn't
15:34 particle will do, after i finish debugging dynoplibs/alarm.t
15:34 pmichaud I'm betting it's another -G bug :-)
15:34 particle that would make me happy
15:34 pmichaud should I post reply to the ticket, or just wait for you to try it later?
15:34 particle wait. should be ~10m
15:34 pmichaud okay, no problem.
15:35 particle i'm hoping to get regex/token/rule working in rakudo before release
15:35 particle it's ~3 lines of code, but haven't had a chance yet
15:36 pmichaud I think the current parsing code isn't quite correct
15:36 pmichaud at least, it's not the way I envisioned it
15:36 particle feel free to beat me to it. whatever gets it done for release
15:36 pmichaud it should be
15:37 pmichaud <quote_expression: :regex :ratchet>   instead of <quote_expression: :token>
15:37 pmichaud i.e., I didn't want to define special :token and :rule adverbs (unless that's also the way that STD.pm is now doing it)
16:04 particle AHA! t/dynoplibs/alarm.t test 7 is a GC BUG! yay!
16:05 particle dynoplibs/myops.t that is
16:28 pmichaud afk, lunch & errands
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16:48 Andy_ I would love to figure out how to free the memory from all the yyparsing.
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17:09 particle pmichaud: so, you see something like <quote_expression: :regex :sigspace :ratchet> instead of :token? that's what i'm thinking, just want to make sure we're on the same page
17:15 particle er, i mean instead of :rule, of course
17:25 * particle wonders if <quote_expression: :$<sym>> works yet
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18:10 kj Andy_: memory from yyparsing: It's my guess that most of it is allocated in the lexer.
18:10 Andy_ that much I know.
18:11 Andy_ It's just beyond my understanding of the code at this point tofigure where to free it.
18:11 kj ok good. :-)
18:11 kj right. I don't know either.
18:11 kj I don't know where the mapping from instruction names to instruction numbers is done
18:11 kj that's very important I think.
18:12 kj but IMCC has instruction names/strings all over the place (in the code generation)
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18:26 pmichaud I don't know if interpolation is defined in <regex: text> .... I don't think it is
18:26 pmichaud i.e.,   <regex: $foo> is the same as  <regex('$foo')>, iiuc
18:26 pmichaud and yes, I was thinking that rule would be  <quote_expression: :regex :ratchet :sigspace>
18:27 particle pmichaud: i have that in now, but it's not working (yet)
18:28 pmichaud okay.  I really don't want to hold up the release for a working regex/token/rule, though
18:28 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "towards correcting regex/token/rule" (38 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12362
18:29 particle i figured i could just pass :ratchet and :sigspace in the 'options' hash to p6regex, but it's not working
18:29 pmichaud you can, but be sure to eliminate the colons
18:29 particle ah, hrmm.
18:29 pmichaud and we may also need to store ratchet/sigspace in the PAST node that comes back
18:30 particle the colons are removed already, automatically
18:30 particle just like :qq etc
18:31 pmichaud I think we may need to store them in the PAST::Node, then
18:32 pmichaud and that may require a modification to PCT/PAST/POST to handle
18:32 particle yep, i think it does
18:32 particle ok, release away!
18:32 particle hrmm, i suppose my patch won't hurt anything, and is closer to what we want
18:32 pmichaud sure, that'd be great
18:33 pmichaud at the moment the important thing is to get regex working
18:33 pmichaud we can get token and rule shortly after that
18:33 particle from an interactive run:
18:33 particle rule abc { a b c }; say $/ if 'abc' ~~ /<abc>/;
18:33 particle abc
18:33 particle regex abc { a b c }; say $/ if 'abc' ~~ /<abc>/;
18:33 particle abc
18:33 particle token abc { a b c }; say $/ if 'abc' ~~ /<abc>/;
18:33 particle abc
18:34 pmichaud looks correct except for rule
18:34 particle yep
18:34 particle everything is acting like regex
18:34 pmichaud right
18:35 particle r25904
18:40 svnbotl r25904 | particle++ | trunk:
18:40 svnbotl : [rakudo] bringing regex/token/rule support closer to correct -- everything still acts like regex
18:40 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25904
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18:46 svnbotl r25905 | particle++ | trunk:
18:46 svnbotl : [RELEASE] PLATFORMS updates for msvc
18:46 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25905
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19:33 Coke should failures in PLATFORMS be failed test files or individual tests?
19:33 chromatic Files, I believe.
19:33 particle i don't recall what i've done in the past
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19:41 Coke rant: where the heck is my smoke?
19:42 chromatic Inside the device.
19:42 chromatic Hit it with a hammer to release it.
19:43 Tene Coke: you've got the power hooked up backwards.  You're running it in smoke-retention mode.
19:43 Coke hurm. smoke just reports # of individual test failures. close enough.
19:51 svnbotl r25906 | coke++ | trunk:
19:51 svnbotl : [docs]
19:51 svnbotl : Update status for intel mac; compress footnote #'s.
19:51 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25906
19:52 jonathan particle:  if $I0 goto regex_start
19:52 jonathan 92 goto word_start
19:52 jonathan 87 unless $I0 goto word_start
19:53 jonathan if $I0 wasn't true, it's clearly going to be false ;-)
19:53 particle look closer
19:53 mire__ joined #parrot
19:53 jonathan Oh!
19:54 jonathan These colorful diffs... :-)
19:54 * particle builds on centos 5.1 x64
19:55 jonathan I actually had that ladder there for once I figured out how to pass on the right modifiers or call the Right Thing in PGE. Though I never got around to working out how to go do the Right Thing.
19:55 jonathan Those options don't get passed on at all, though.
19:55 particle jonathan: yep, but mine is closer to the right thing
19:55 particle :ratchet and :sigspace should be passed along to p6regex
19:56 particle that's the only bit that needs fixing now
19:56 jonathan If you can figure out how to do that bit, then it's fine. :-)
19:57 particle i'll get there eventually
19:57 jonathan I tried a couple of different things, but none of them were the Right One. Then, I don't understand PGE guts. Yet.
19:57 particle yep, pge is a beast.
19:58 chromatic PGE needs optimization.
19:58 particle we'll talk about that in two minutes
19:58 * chromatic wants callgrind-compatible output for PIR
19:58 jonathan chromatic: How much do you think it's PGE that needs it, and how much Parrot?
19:59 Coke jonathan: we'd need some profiling to tell for sure.
19:59 chromatic PGE is recursive descent, not LR, so there are some definite inefficiencies.
19:59 chromatic If we could find spots in PGE that did too much work, I think we could speed it up notably.
20:00 jonathan Algorithmic optimizations are the best ones.
20:01 particle phone
20:01 jonathan I'm flying to Kiev tomorrow for UPW, I'll probably do some Rakudo hacking en route.
20:01 Coke conference season? duck season!
20:01 jonathan Plus some at the workshop, then I'm around in Holland for 5 days.
20:02 jonathan chromatic: Did you look at the sub introspection stuff with regard to call optimization?
20:02 chromatic Not yet.
20:03 chromatic Making that use arity seems useful.
20:03 jonathan Well, all the other bits (is it named, etc) are there too.
20:03 jdv79 is ppd25 up to date?
20:03 chromatic I had a thought last night before I fell asleep to extract lots of smaller functions from the larger functions.
20:04 jonathan I've always looked at inter_call.c and been like, "I'll try to understand this another day". :-)
20:04 Coke jdv79: anything in draft is suspect.
20:05 Coke ... which that isn't. whoops!
20:05 jonathan :-)
20:05 Coke I believe it is mostly up to date; allison pushed that out of draft in the last few months.
20:05 jdv79 thanks
20:05 jonathan And did a chunk of implementation work on it too.
20:06 Coke (alon.... right.)
20:14 particle seems -G doesn't help my perl6doc bug :(
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20:30 Coke I can't build the pdd17pmc branch atm.
20:33 particle coke: what fails?
20:33 purl fails are rare
20:33 nopaste "coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "pdd17pmc" (25 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12364
20:36 Coke (that's with a realclean and no modifications outside of languages/)
20:37 chromatic header problem?
20:41 particle try make headerizer
20:41 particle see if svn st tells you that it modified something
20:45 Coke couldn't read 'src/revision.c': No such file or directory at tools/build/headerizer.pl line 362.
20:47 particle you have a new Makefile?
20:47 Coke how new?
20:47 Coke (I updated, realcleaned, config'd, made. boom.)
20:47 particle post realclean. i assume so.
20:47 particle hrmm.
20:48 particle ok, well try looking for /^headerizer in Makefile
20:52 particle Andy_: ping
20:53 Andy_ yes
20:53 particle wrt headerizer, should it really *die* if a source file isn't found?
20:53 particle coke has this problem currently.
21:05 chromatic Coke, that's really weird.  There's no Parrot_Class on line 139 of src/oo.c for me.
21:08 chromatic http://blodgettm.blogspot.com/2008/02/​corollaries-to-blodgett-first-law.html
21:08 shorten chromatic's url is at http://xrl.us/bghqu
21:08 svnbotl r25907 | particle++ | trunk:
21:08 svnbotl : [RELEASE] PLATFORMS updates for linux-x86_64
21:08 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=25907
21:10 pmichaud particle:  changing .*? to (.*?) works on my platform with the test input you nopasted earlier.  what are you getting?
21:12 particle pmichaud: that test has many, many pod paragraphs/blocks/etc
21:12 Coke hurm.
21:12 particle if i change any single .*? to (.*?), i get ...
21:12 particle hang on
21:14 pmichaud (I just changed the one you mentioned in the ticket)
21:15 particle ok, if you change the last one (pod_abbreviated_block)
21:15 particle you no longer get =FirstName and =MiddleName in the output
21:15 particle if you change all three of them, you get 'No POD found.'
21:16 pmichaud ah, it's because converting to a capture actually changes the meaning (inside of token)
21:16 pmichaud whether it _should_ or not is a question for TimToady :-)
21:16 particle *phew*
21:17 pmichaud in PGE at least,   token containing   (.*?)   actually acts like   (.*?):
21:17 particle as in, a capture in a token returns ...
21:17 particle ok.
21:17 pmichaud which means that we lose the backtracking
21:17 pmichaud whereas a bare   .*?  will properly backtrack
21:17 particle hrmm.
21:17 TimToady that's not right
21:18 TimToady .*: is the default under ratchet, and .*? turns off the :
21:18 TimToady as does .*!
21:18 pmichaud correct, but does :ratchet affect groupings?
21:18 TimToady not unless they have alternatives
21:18 pmichaud it's not that it's treating .*? like .*: -- it's that   (.*?)   under :ratchet has an implied ':' after the )
21:19 TimToady by itself grouping doesn't have any branch points
21:19 TimToady ah, I see what you're saing
21:19 TimToady saying
21:19 pmichaud okay, so    [ a* | ab ]   won't backtrack
21:19 pmichaud ?
21:19 pmichaud but [ a* ] would ?
21:19 pmichaud (all assuming :ratchet)
21:20 TimToady thinking
21:20 purl http://www.terrybisson.com/meat.html
21:20 TimToady which is hard right now...
21:20 pmichaud (and I should've made those *'s into *?'s
21:20 pmichaud )
21:21 chromatic Oh wait, Coke you're on the PDD 17 branch.
21:21 particle chromatic: i think coke knows that
21:22 chromatic Now I know that too.
21:22 chromatic Merging from trunk might help.
21:22 chromatic I know there have been a lot of changes and improvements since the previous merge.
21:23 chromatic Alternately, if Allison moved the Parrot_Class struct definition due to the PMC change....
21:23 TimToady seems like there's two natural ways to run ratchet, and we could default it either way
21:29 pmichaud particle:  in the meantime, perhaps try   (.*?):!
21:29 TimToady I guess <foo>! could override the : now that ! is always meta
21:30 TimToady but <foo>? wouldn't work as a shorthand, since it means something already
21:30 particle i'd like $<body>=[.*?]! will that work? lemme see
21:31 pmichaud should work, I think.
21:31 pmichaud may need :!  instead of just !
21:31 particle No POD found.
21:32 TimToady defaulting to <foo>: is probably more useful from an optimization point of view
21:32 TimToady yeah, bare ! isn't specced
21:32 pmichaud having :ratchet treat <foo>  as <foo>:  seems like the correct approach
21:33 TimToady well, leave it that way for now.
21:34 pmichaud I agree that   converting .*? to (.*?) causes it to lose backtracking is counter-intuitive
21:34 pmichaud (under :ratchet).  I don't have an obvious answer.
21:34 particle i colud turn ratchet off for that
21:34 pmichaud but at least I can claim it's not a PGE bug :-)
21:34 particle would it help me?
21:34 particle :!ratchet
21:35 pmichaud I'm curious to know why   $<body>=[.*?]:!  didn't work
21:35 particle you're curious? me too.
21:36 pmichaud trying it now
21:38 Coke chromatic: this is in pdd17pmc. does that matter?
21:39 chromatic Yeah.  That's why I couldn't find that line of code in my version.  I was looking at trunk.
21:39 Coke (catching up)
21:39 Coke "when is this?"
21:39 pmichaud particle:   $<body>=(.*?):!   works
21:39 TimToady note that we can give a compile-time warning on ratcheted (.*?) specifically because it can never produce anything other than ""
21:39 Coke was trying to validate pdd17pmc branch before you opened it up to the HLL folk for review. =-)
21:40 chromatic The Parrot_Class declaration is at src/pmc/pmc_class.h:133.
21:41 chromatic My guess is that we need a header include for that.
21:41 TimToady or we could just say that any subgroup that ends with ? is bad that way
21:41 particle pmichaud++ for giving me a workaround
21:41 particle TimToady++ for clearing up the spec
21:41 TimToady (foo .*?): can only match "foo" ever
21:42 TimToady so if we can warn about that, that makes everything okay :)
21:42 Coke chromatic: regarding profiling subs: if we do the generic "let me attach another sub to run before this one starts and one after it stops", we can roll our own profiling. (and we need that feature anyway)
21:42 TimToady nap &
21:42 particle subclass Sub?
21:42 Coke insufficient. I need to do this to any sub.
21:43 Coke (that could be a first step for HLLs, of course.)
21:43 particle ok, add ATTRs to Subs in pdd17pmc branch
21:43 particle then modify invoke to run them properly
21:44 particle what happens with a tailcall?
21:44 Coke I would imagine you'd have to unroll it if the sub you're leaving had an onexit handler.
21:46 pmichaud could we somehow do something magic with invoke, itself?
21:46 pmichaud rather than having to wrap subs?
21:47 pmichaud (just an idle thought)
21:47 chromatic I was thinking of a very simple runloop that could spit out callgrind-compatible output.
21:47 chromatic http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/cl-format.html
21:47 chromatic afk
21:49 Coke Ok. that helps with the profiling, but not my feature need. =-)
21:50 Coke but, first things first. (profiling will help tcl immensely, too.)
21:59 AndyAway Hey if we're gonna talk profiling, let's talk tonight some time, and I'll see what I can do under shark, if we have a reasonable target
21:59 AndyAway but now I must run.
22:00 Coke (profiling parrot level subs, not c level, if that matters)
22:12 jonathan I was pondering that it could be useful to be able to have a :pmc(...) adverb for .sub's, specifying what PMC to use for sub.
22:12 jonathan Since in Perl 6, there are different types of subs...
22:13 jonathan Regex, Routine, Code, etc.
22:13 particle ah, what subclass of sub
22:13 particle or whatever
22:13 cotto_ joined #parrot
22:13 particle flavor. gotcha.
22:13 jonathan particle: Yes.
22:13 jonathan Insane, or worth writing to the list?
22:15 particle i'm wondering if .const already works for that
22:16 particle .const Routine foo = $P0
22:16 particle the syntax is way different, of course
22:16 particle but it seems more general
22:17 particle there are questions. like does .const register something in the proper namespace slot?
22:18 particle ...like .sub does
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23:02 * jonathan sleeps, 5:30am start tomorrow
23:02 Coke nite
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