Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-03-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 davidfetter hrm. i know from other windows developers that the cygwin section probably doesn't belong there
00:02 * davidfetter checks further
00:04 allison it suggests strawberry perl, then notes that strawberry perl doesn't work
00:04 davidfetter yeah
00:05 allison which leads me to suspect this isn't the process most current windows devs are using
00:05 allison (also, it fails with an error about missing 'ar')
00:06 davidfetter the windows devs i know tend to go with the msvc toolchain
00:06 allison the alternative, README_win32.pod still refers to the microsoft compiler from 2003, so again, I suspect it's out of date
00:07 allison I've got msvc 2008 express
00:07 allison I'm retrying with active perl, which seems to be working better
00:09 * davidfetter hasn't scared up any more windows developers as yet
00:09 allison ah-ha! success! I'm able to duplicate particle's segfault
00:10 davidfetter istr flavio was developing on windows for awhile
00:10 davidfetter excellent! :)
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00:38 LimbicRegion w
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02:02 Limbic_Region purl tell allison I build on Win32/MinGW daily and have access to Cygwin if necessary - but I am in no way a developer :-)
02:02 purl OK, Limbic_Region.
02:03 Limbic_Region hrm, did I do that right?
02:10 allison Limbic_Region: particle had a segfault on MSVC in the PMC implementation branch, so I was trying to duplicate it
02:26 kid51 Limbic_Region:  The instructions for what I think you were trying to do are here:  http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/in​dex.cgi?internet_relay_chat_irc_parrot
02:26 shorten kid51's url is at http://xrl.us/bg8u6
02:27 kid51 Let 's try that out
02:27 kid51 msg Limbic_Region the instructions are here:  http://xrl.us/bg8u6
02:27 purl Message for limbic_region stored.
02:28 kid51 Ta-daaaah!
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02:36 svnbotl r26236 | petdance++ | trunk:
02:36 svnbotl : Switch to size_t where appropriate.  Switch to some snprintf()s
02:36 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26236
02:49 svnbotl r26237 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
02:49 svnbotl : Correct one typo and one punctuation error in POD.  Reformat one line to < 80 chars.
02:49 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26237
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03:12 Andy oh, the splintyness is getting good
03:14 svnbotl r26238 | petdance++ | trunk:
03:14 svnbotl : cleaned up lots of splint warnings
03:14 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26238
03:30 cotto seen barney
03:30 purl barney was last seen on #parrot 9 hours and 45 minutes ago, saying: allison: PHP looks now mostly fine with pdd17
04:20 katie_d I'm starting to try to grok the Parrot sources, and I was thinking about writing a set of guides for beginners who want to learn how things work, as I  go along. As far as using snippets from trunk/docs/ -- what are the licensing requirements? As long as the information on my site is released under the
04:20 katie_d same terms, with a link o the Artistic license that Perl uses, I am allowed to use them whereve,r I want, correct?
04:23 lathos I believe so. But why not put the guides back into the source tree?
04:25 katie_d @lathos: I'd like to, but I'm not sure if they would be wanted there. They will be much less concise than what I've seen in there -- more geared towards less experienced programmers who need a bit more hand-holding.
04:25 katie_d And I'd like to have some illustrations as well.
04:27 katie_d Then again, since they would be released under the same terms, any parts that were wanted could be snipped and put into the source tree, if they were wanted.
04:28 katie_d So, I'll just get them written up, put them on my site, and then let people pick what they like out of there.
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05:18 cotto katie_d, ping
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05:30 svnbotl r26239 | petdance++ | trunk:
05:30 svnbotl : added many source files back to the splint target
05:30 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26239
05:36 katie_d cotto: pong
05:45 cotto I'd be willing to help you with the documentation and tutorials you mentioned
05:47 katie_d It's going to take me a bit of time to get a handle on it myself before I really begin working on it. But if I see you around in the channel here, I'll PM you when I start. Thanks for the offer :)
05:48 cotto glad to help
05:49 svnbotl r26240 | chromatic++ | pdd17pmc:
05:49 svnbotl : [Lua] Ported the Lua PMC to PDD 17 standards.  Somehow I missed this one
05:49 svnbotl : yesterday.
05:49 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26240
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08:30 svnbotl r26241 | chromatic++ | pdd17pmc:
08:30 svnbotl : [Lua] Because METHODs now use PCC, they get invoked through C calls, not the
08:30 svnbotl : standard continuation invocation scheme.  They do have calling contexts, but
08:30 svnbotl : the parent context doesn't have a calling Sub PMC; thus the Lua PMC needs to
08:30 svnbotl : check if the parent's context has a valid sub pointer before dereferencing it.
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10:10 svnbotl r26242 | simon++ | trunk:
10:10 svnbotl : Update with comments from Larry and Allison.
10:10 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26242
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10:35 svnbotl r26243 | chromatic++ | pdd17pmc:
10:35 svnbotl : [Lua] Renamed ctx variables in METHODs, as the generated code for METHODs now
10:35 svnbotl : includes a variable already named ctx.  Variable shadowing is bad; in this case
10:35 svnbotl : it appears that the METHODs don't actually return anything.  (They do, but it
10:35 svnbotl : gets stored in the wrong context which goes away after the function returns.)
10:48 svnbotl r26244 | fperrad++ | trunk:
10:48 svnbotl : [Lua]
10:48 svnbotl : - add base64 library
10:48 svnbotl r26245 | fperrad++ | trunk:
10:48 svnbotl : [Lua]
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11:01 svnbotl r26246 | fperrad++ | trunk:
11:01 svnbotl : [plumhead]
11:01 svnbotl : - fix build on Win32
11:01 svnbotl : - add some static
11:01 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26246
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13:06 lichtkind pmichaud: ping
13:16 pmichaud lichtkind: pong
13:17 lichtkind pmichaud: which was the svn/pods i could include in p6doc?
13:17 pmichaud I don't quite understand the question (still just waking up)
13:18 lichtkind :)
13:19 lichtkind pmichaud:  and i have to leave , we talked once about parrot docs dor userland
13:19 pmichaud yes
13:19 lichtkind pmichaud:  i would like to have name plz
13:19 lichtkind i assume ther are in http://svn.perl.org/viewvc/parrot/trunk/docs/
13:20 lichtkind pmichaud: since i now added also microarticles this will be next step for p6doc
13:20 pmichaud these being docs for Perl 6?
13:22 lichtkind yes mam
13:22 lichtkind but i have to leave plz just leave me message in that win
13:22 pmichaud I think that most of the docs (if any) related to Perl 6 will be in languages/perl6/docs
13:22 pmichaud most of the ones in parrot/trunk/docs are Parrot-specific.  But perhaps I'm misremembering things.
13:24 lichtkind yes but some basic parrot thing would also fit since they are the counterparts of the current perlguts
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13:47 Coke ack on feather is 1.54; anyone with sudo who can upgrade it?
13:50 Coke (also be nice if feather had tclsh8.5)
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13:53 Coke if I am sitting in gdb with a PMC *; how I can get the pmc's type?
13:56 avar how would you normally do that in C?
13:56 avar `p pcm_gettype(pmcptr)' would work (or whatever the function is called)
13:57 avar p *pcmptr might too if it's a struct that has a char* type field or something like that
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13:59 Coke I tried p p_arg->vtable->name(interp,p_arg), which I would expect to DTRT.
13:59 Coke but that segfaults.
14:01 avar segfaults the program or gdb?
14:01 Coke the program.
14:01 purl hmmm... the program is too big
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14:02 particl1 p p_arg->vtable->real_self ??
14:02 * particl1 checks
14:02 particle opbots, names
14:07 particle p p_arg->vtable->whoami
14:07 particle grr
14:08 particle yeah. i think that'll work.
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14:23 Coke particle: no, that tells me (after more digging), that it's an "Object". =-)
14:24 Coke but if I call p_arg->vtable->name(interp,p_arg), segfault. ditto get_class.
14:24 * Coke opened a ticket for the more c-literate to look at.
14:25 Coke (more than me, not you)
14:25 particle sorry, i haven't been inside gdb in a while
14:26 avar Coke: url to ticket?
14:26 purl ticket is saying to select a compiler based on the extension of the script file
14:26 Coke http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=51478
14:26 Coke avar: this is in the pdd17pmc branch, btw.
14:26 particle did you try ->base_type?
14:27 particle INTVAL  base_type;      /* 'type' value for MMD */
14:27 Coke it's an OBJECT. I know that.
14:27 particle so what do you want?
14:27 Coke (and yes, that's in the ticket!)
14:28 Coke I was hoping to find out what *kind* of object it was so I could track down why it couldn't array.
14:28 particle what does ->does_str say?
14:28 particle and ->isa_str?
14:30 Coke (gdb) p p_arg->vtable->does_str(interp,p_arg)
14:30 Coke Structure has no component named does_str.
14:30 particle ok. is the vtable pointer valid?
14:31 particle every vtable function you try to run fails, correct? maybe the vtable is bad
14:31 Coke How would I know if the vtable is bad? It certainly seems to be valid. (as noted in the ticket.)
14:32 avar Coke: gah!
14:32 Coke avar: ?
14:32 avar Coke: re your last message
14:33 avar too-much-trouble-to-switch​-branches-in-crappy-vcs's
14:33 Coke k.
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15:03 Andy Waaah, chromatic mocked my code!
15:04 davidfetter worse things could happen
15:04 davidfetter some rails developer could praise it, for example ;)
15:05 szbalint or PHP
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15:46 svnbotl r26247 | petdance++ | trunk:
15:46 svnbotl : space out some n-1 constructs
15:46 svnbotl r26248 | petdance++ | trunk:
15:46 svnbotl : This started out as spacing out some n-1 constructs for chromatic, but
15:46 svnbotl : then I looked around and saw a lot of returns from functions and those
15:46 svnbotl : kinda make me sad because it's usually nicer to drain out the bottom of
15:46 svnbotl : the function so I did a little block shuffling.
15:46 svnbotl r26249 | petdance++ | trunk:
15:46 svnbotl : working on the splint target
15:46 svnbotl r26250 | petdance++ | trunk:
15:46 svnbotl : Cast NULLfunc from NULL, not 0
15:46 svnbotl r26251 | petdance++ | trunk:
15:46 svnbotl : ACHTUNG chromatic: N-1 HAVE BEEN SPACED OUT.  REPEAT: N-1 HAVE BEEN SPACED OUT. END OF TRANSMISSION.
15:46 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26251
15:49 katie_d What is the rationale for creating a pointer to interp->arena_base in the line:  Arenas * const arena_base = interp->arena_base  in the function Parrot_gc_ms_init() in src/gc/smallobject.c ? Why not just refer to interp->arena_base directly?
15:52 Coke to hoist up that one level of indirection? I imagine it's more about formatting the code than saving cycles, though.
15:53 svnbotl r26252 | coke++ | trunk:
15:53 svnbotl : [codingstd]
15:53 svnbotl : "sizeof(" -> "sizeof ("
15:53 svnbotl : This allows c_parens.t to pass, so adding it to the set of standard
15:53 svnbotl : codingstd tests.
15:53 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26252
15:53 katie_d So basically, just so nobody has to repeatedly type interp->arena_base?
15:54 Coke That's my guess, yes. =-) <IANACP>
15:54 Coke ianacp?
15:54 purl hmmm... ianacp is I Am Not A C Programmer
15:54 Coke purl, scooby snack!
15:54 purl Rank roo, Coke!
15:55 katie_d Me either :) Trying to be one now though ...
16:02 Coke ... you were the one with the build problem, right?
16:08 katie_d Coke: Yes. It works fine w/ a vanilla GCC 4.2.2 --- it's obviously something w/ Gentoo Hardened
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17:25 Andy Coke: It's more about DRY than anything.
17:26 Andy katie_d: Yes, so we don't repeatedly type interp->arena_base.
17:26 Andy Also, don't repeatedly read interp->arena_base.
17:26 Andy DRY DRY DRY DRY
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17:32 TimToady @seen diakopter
17:33 TimToady mmm, no lambdabot either
17:33 pmichaud seen diakopter
17:33 purl diakopter was last seen on #parrot 1 day and 15 hours ago, saying: must be an off-by-one error, where the one in this case is which file I'm editing.  [Mar  4 19:02:28 2008]
17:34 TimToady msg diakopter looks like cod3r.com is blacklisted by irc
17:34 purl Message for diakopter stored.
17:41 barney joined #parrot
17:46 cotto_ barney, ping
17:53 barney cotto: pong, Just read your mail
17:54 * barney is removing PHPArray
17:55 cotto_ ok.  Thanks.
17:55 lichtkind_ joined #parrot
17:58 barney Sounds like a mess, I hope that everybody involved is sane. At least they will hear about Parrot :=)
17:58 cotto_ Everyone is sane as far as I can tell.
17:59 cotto_ They're just very conservative legally.
18:00 cotto_ MS will be contributing back to a GPL project in the very near future, but it's the very beginning of this soft of thing.
18:00 cotto_ (the project is Drupal, for the curious)
18:04 particle cotto_: are you in usa?
18:04 cotto_ yes
18:04 particle redmond?
18:04 purl redmond is the Unholy See of the Evil Empire.  May it slip into the sea.
18:05 cotto_ If it slips into the sea, I'll have to learn how to swim
18:05 cotto_ yes
18:06 * particle is in seattle
18:06 cotto_ cool
18:06 cotto_ what part?
18:06 purl part is to move as much of the "how much input string for unpacking do we need?" logic into 1 place
18:06 particle you should come to SPUG meetings, see seattleperl.org
18:06 particle madrona
18:06 particle i'll be in redmond tonight for a soccer game
18:06 pmichaud mmmm, soccer
18:07 cotto_ mmmm, perl
18:07 pmichaud soccer here is likely cancelled tonight due to snow :-(
18:07 particle snow? in texas? didn't they get the memo? it's march!
18:07 pmichaud I think it's a meteorological reaction to this week's primary :-)
18:07 particle :)
18:08 pmichaud and yes, I'm disappointed, as I'm _really_ low on soccer playing this year
18:08 pmichaud I think I've played a total of four times in 2008 thus far, practices and games combined
18:08 particle if we win tonight and saturday, we'll be in the championship.
18:08 particle actually, i think we need to win or tie both
18:08 pmichaud (normally we practice twice per week, with games on sundays)
18:09 pmichaud anyway, yes.  snow.  in texas.  in march.
18:10 cotto_ are spug meetings always on tuesdays?
18:10 particle always third tuesday
18:11 cotto_ crud.  I have something else going on during that exact same time.
18:11 particle well, perhaps we can have a hacking session some time
18:11 particle i can lead a hackathon once in a while
18:12 cotto_ I'd be up for anything, provided I don't have a prior commitment.
18:12 particle great. i'll keep it in mind :)
18:12 * katie_d is in olympia ....
18:12 particle ooh, nice!
18:13 cotto_ I'm doing a lot of PHP work here and it feels like it's stunting my mental growth.
18:13 particle april seems like a good hacking month for me. too much travel in march
18:13 cotto_ katie_d, great!
18:13 svnbotl r26253 | bernhard++ | trunk:
18:13 svnbotl : [Plumhead]
18:13 svnbotl : Pulling back the PHPArray PMC.
18:13 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26253
18:14 cotto_ it'll be back
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19:03 Coke cotto_: (PHP) I'm doing cold fusion atm. I feel your pain.
19:04 cotto_ too bad that such things pay the bills
19:12 Coke allison: any clue on my pdd17 "can't array" bug? (pointers to more diagnostic tips welcome, too.)
19:13 Psyche^ joined #parrot
19:13 avar /w/w 22
19:14 Andy ONE ENTRY, ONE EXIT!
19:14 Andy ONE ENTRY, ONE EXIT!
19:14 Andy TROLL TROLL TROLL!!!
19:18 was kicked by particle: i'll give you ONE EXIT =P
19:18 Andy joined #parrot
19:18 pmichaud heh
19:18 pmichaud fwiw, I don't always agree with "one exit"
19:20 Andy Of course not.
19:20 Andy I don't always agree with anything.
19:20 particle i do.
19:20 Andy No you don't.
19:20 purl Oh yes I do
19:20 Andy Who asked you?
19:20 particle botsnack
19:20 purl :)
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19:47 Coke yay, chromatic has an idea.
19:50 Coke ... that sounded terrible. =-)
19:55 Coke Is there a XXX-like marker we can agree to use in languages or non-finished core parrot that won't trigger anyone's "create an RT"  button?
19:56 pmichaud we can certainly create one
19:57 Tene What about XXXX?  I'm sure that won't confuse anybody.
19:58 particle coke: see pdd07
19:58 particle (or update it if you come up with one)
20:05 svnbotl r26254 | allison++ | pdd17pmc:
20:05 svnbotl : [pdd17pmc] Partially revert r25266, so Windows can compile for language testing (RT# 50996).
20:05 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26254
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20:50 TimToady I would suggest that the inability to use XXX for that strongly indicates Process Run Amok :)
20:50 pmichaud TimToady++
20:51 pmichaud I agree.  Perhaps we should have a general rule that things in languages/ don't automatically warrant RT tickets, period.
20:51 pmichaud (this isn't to say that languages/ can't have RT tickets, just that it's not automatic)
20:58 TimToady or perhaps an approach a little more like fudge.  "I know when I'm fudging, and I know when I'm not, and for now I'm definitely fudging..."
20:58 sjansen joined #parrot
20:58 TimToady could elevate it to Larry's Eighteenth Law of Prototyping, or some such...
20:58 sjansen Isn't there a way to get Piper to leave me alone yet?
20:59 pmichaud whoever pays the piper calls the tune, or something like that?
20:59 Tene sjansen: /ignore piper
21:03 Coke Piper's source?
21:04 Coke Piper's source is https://svn.develooper.com/projects/logbot/logbot
21:07 svnbotl r26255 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
21:07 svnbotl : * Convert Test/More.pir to use Perl6Regex instead of the
21:07 svnbotl :   deprecated P6Regex (RT #48028).
21:07 svnbotl : * 'make test' still passes after this change.
21:07 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26255
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21:51 svnbotl r26256 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
21:51 svnbotl : * Convert lib/Parrot/Test/PGE.pm to use Perl6Regex instead of
21:51 svnbotl :   the deprecated P6Regex (RT #48028)
21:51 svnbotl : * 'make test' passes same tests as before
21:51 svnbotl r26257 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
21:51 svnbotl : [shootout]:
21:51 svnbotl : * Switch regexdna.pir test to use Perl6Regex instead of
21:51 svnbotl :   deprecated P6Regex (RT#48028).
21:51 svnbotl : * t/examples/shootout.t passes.
21:51 svnbotl r26258 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
21:51 svnbotl : [pge]:
21:51 svnbotl : * Convert demo.pir and README.pod to use Perl6Regex instead of
21:51 svnbotl :   deprecated P6Regex (RT#48028).
21:51 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26258
21:58 svnbotl r26259 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
21:58 svnbotl : [pge]:
21:58 svnbotl : * Convert PGE/Hs.pir to use Perl6Regex instead of
21:58 svnbotl :   deprecated P6Regex (RT#48028).
21:58 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26259
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22:24 Coke pmichaud++
22:24 davidfetter ?
22:25 Tene !
22:38 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:41 cotto_ seen allison
22:41 purl allison was last seen on #parrot 20 hours and 32 minutes ago, saying: Limbic_Region: particle had a segfault on MSVC in the PMC implementation branch, so I was trying to duplicate it
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